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Gee, I wonder what inspired this little poll. LOL!!
Will it be on the up-and-up or manipulated in some way, this poll?
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." Thomas Jefferson, 1769.
Wow. No wonder Texas outlawed TJ from being taught in their schools. Can't have that kind of propaganda floating around, now, can we?
'Specially since one of the organizers of Perry's circle j...err prayer rally actually believes the Establishment clause doesn't apply to Christianity.
As usual Cait, you miss the point.
Not a part of the common law means just that. There are no laws restricting religeon. It does not mean that Jefferson was against religeon of any type as long as it does not infringe on the will of others.
In other words, the State will not have an Official religeon. LIke the Anglicans in England.
But you will twist it anyway you want it.
Take a lortab and go to bed.
So what. George Washington was an atheist.
His habits, his devotion, his service as a vestryman in his church, and the accounts of his family and those closest to him indicate completely otherwise.
His habits like owning slaves?
a quick check of the gospel might acquaint you with the fact that Jesus admonished both slaves and owners to cultivate a godly attitude in their situation. Abolition of slavery is a liberal issue, not unlike the right to vote or to own property, arguably derived from Christianity, but about a millennium and a half after Christ and the commencement of Christianity.
Syco called Washington an atheist. He most certainly was not.
Maybe not an atheist, but certainly no avid theist. As an adult he quit taking communion. Probably, the whole wine into blood thing struck him as backward superstition.
It's great ammo for Brownback and Rick Perry as they are convinced that americans have removed God from their lives. The bogus christians are at it again
Going to church and spirituality or belief in higher powers have nothing to do with each other.
Politics and God have nothing to do with each other:
The repub party has a long history of economic destruction and crime to include Iran-Contra and Watergate. Like or not a consistent and disturbing pattern has developed by their choosing.
After spending so so many decades in Washington D.C on tax dollar payrolls republicans are sure they learned all they needed to know about OUR money and founding reckless economies. Republicans have much experience under their belts and they never quit sharing.
TABOR is Coming by Grover Norquist and Koch Bros.
The Reagan/Bush Savings and Loan Heist(Cost taxpayers $1.4 trillion)
Wall Street Bank Fraud on Consumers under Bush/Cheney
Bush and Henry Paulson blew the $700 billion of bail out money?
And that tax cuts do nothing to make an economy strong or produce jobs.
In the end big debt and super duper bailouts were the results which does not seem to bother Republicans, as long as they are in power.
In fact, by the time the second Bush left office, the national debt had grown to $12.1 trillion:
Over half of that amount had been created by Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy.
Another 30% of the national debt had been created by the tax cuts for the wealthy under Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.
• Fully 81% of the national debt was created by just these three Republican Presidents.
merrill you post the same links on every story.
"Politics and God have nothing to do with each other". Absolutely.
Do you NEVER tire of this same list, Merrill?
Attending a religious meeting makes you spiritual just as standing in a garage makes you an automobile.
The fact is, garages are good places for automobiles to be in.
Especially when things are not going well, such as during thunderstorms or snowstorms.
And, a daily life of just sitting in the sun is not good for the paint, and also the interior gets hot and that can do damage.
Plus, very few automobiles are involved in car accidents while they are in garages.
Lot of hypocrits for sure. But it is what you make of it.
Really no point in getting into it. You guys don't get it, and you don't want to get it.
When somebody dies or gets married.
People of "religion" seem to forget some of the very teachings of the Christian religion. Jesus himself scorned those who made great public display of their religion and prayer. But look at the huge display that the governer of Texas just staged and attracted, yup, good ole Kansas Brownbackwards, the only other state governer to be pulled into this garish whoop-te-do. They seem to forget the admonition of Christ to go into their secret place and pray to their God who is also in secret. Whaddya think of that Gov. Perry??
What about my dear friend, the Reverend Fred Phelps?
He's very public in his displays of religion. Of course, you're not thinking about him at all, because he is a very good Christian. He is a very good servant of G-d, and he lets us all know what the Bible really means.
if the bible were factual, the interpretations would be limited, and the likelihood of a kook like Phelps preaching his interpretation would be far less.
These are opportunits, not real Christians, and they will pay a big price someday.
The real Christians are all around you all the time. They just don't stand on their soapbox and irritate folks.
we're all aware of the "real christians", which equates to everyone who is not part of your exact sect, isn't a real christian.
I try to go to Sunday School and Church every Sunday. Today I have two sick kiddos so we weren't able to make it and be honest there are weeks where we're being lazy and just don't get around in the morning but the goal is to always go. I also go to Bible Study on Tuesday nights that has not only benefited me in better understanding the Bible but has given me a great group of ladies to bond with. That group of ladies reminds me of the saying, "Shared Joy is Doubled Joy but Shared Sorrow is Half Sorrow." I think no matter your religious preference or lack of preference every person needs a good group of people that they can meet with and freely share their joys and sorrows in life.
"every person needs a good group of people that they can meet with and freely share their joys and sorrows in life."
That is so true. Many of the most positive people that I have met, and learned a lot from, I had met in at a religious setting.
Of course, many people are there only for family reasons or the social aspects of the gathering. I don't really have a problem with that.
But I'm sure reminded of the fact that the biggest problem I ever had in life was with a minister's daughter.
That group of people for many is called family and friends. An outside organization that usually demands monetary contributions to belong (tithing and whatnot) has nothing to do with it.
There are plenty of churches that don't demand offering. They need it and appreciate it but won't treat you any differently if you cannot offer as much as others, if any.
Also, I didn't say it had to be a church group. It could be a book club, family, friends, study group, grief support group, etc. I just feel like having a positive group of people that are there for you in the good and the bad is such a great thing. While I have a great group of friends and a great family sometimes it's nice to be within a certain group and take a moment each week to reflect on what is going on with us. It gives myself time to focus on the big issues and not all the little things that I call my mom about. I'm also involved in a book club, a mothers group, a couponing group, etc. and I find that within each group I find difference obstacles or achievements to focus on.
All but that last sentence was specifically focused on your faith life. The implication is that your support is your church family, not book clubs, etc. And there are just as many churches that will look down on you if you do not toss your mite in the basket every week. There are plenty of churches that emphasize your obligation to support the church and its missions with at least 10% of gross income. Anything less is a sin.
Right, because I was answering a question about my church life and I was giving my own personal experience with church. While I find my needs of sharing life events to be met within my church group I don't think it has to be a church group that people get involved in. I think we're social creatures and we need to be around other people so any group that meets your needs would be better then no group. Again, that's just my opinion.
I believe you are mistaken. The majority of churches do not look down upon anyone who does not give. The majority of Christian churches keep their giving anonymous... they don't even now what you give, except two people (usually secretary and treasurer). I can list specific congregations if you would like, in Lawrence that have this attitude. It is a freewill offering, a giving to God' work. It is between you and Him. My interest is why this is such an emotional topic for you?
Well, I had a kid kicked out of parochial school because we couldn't afford to tithe, but why do you think its an emotional topic to me? I merely posted my opinion same as others. I used no hyperbolic adjectives or invective. Why do you assume anyone who posts something negative about churches is "emotional"? Defensive?
"I had a kid kicked out of parochial school because we couldn't afford to tithe."
It might have been a parochial school, but it quite obviously was not a Christian school.
Does catholic count as christian?
Only in name.
Agreed. Fellowship is a good thing.
So much for the "vast majority" of Kansans purportedly clamoring for a return to the Bible and ole-timey Christian Values as sanctioned by Brownback.
This is not a scientific poll.
Even if it were, it would still be dismissed for using "science."
Yeah! What has "science" ever done for us? You can use science to promote facts. What good is that?
"This is not a scientific poll."
Nope, our votes are being scientifically counted.
Scientific Polls are based on criteria that make them less susceptible to manipulation or inaccurate results. How many times did you vote? I voted 3 times in the last three days...therefore, the results are biased and this is not a scientific poll.
Also, as someone has already pointed out, the selection of answers for this poll do not cover all available options. Rarely or never are two seperate answers to the question, which are convieniently contained into one selection in our example of a non-scientific poll. Also, the audience is not truly random.
The Bounce: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYfBibQE7rg
Scientific polls, like those performed by Gallup, eliminate errors like these as much as possible and their results can be accepted as more accurate. But, you probably knew this already.
Oh, BTW, I constructed this explaination without thinking. Did not engage brain at all.
"Did not engage brain at all."
I cetainly believe you, because you did not recognize a joke when you saw one.
Some of my comments in here are not to be taken seriously!
I wasn't sure, Ron. Sarcasm doesn't translate well here. I suggest putting a hint. A lot of people use /s or /sarcasm to alert everyone else to the nature of the post. You're the gd man!
I'm kind of a joker by nature, at least in text media, and so a whole lot of my comments in here are made in jest or in veiled tounge in cheek humor. And sometimes they are addressed to certain people that I know will read it, and no one else is going to understand what in Sheol I am talking about.
My name in here is your hint - am I to take this posting seriously, or is this guy joking again?
But most ot the time I am very serious, and I am always very honest when I describe my life experiences. I've been around the block many, many times and I've known an awful lot of people, and I have an obsesion with learning something from everyone I meet. Everyone can teach you something!
And yes, I really did shake the former Prime Minister of Afghanistan's hand after his talk at KU. And I really actually was one of only two people that cared enough about Afghanistan to show up that was not Arabic. Wow, did we get the royal treatment!
However, I did make a couple errors in my posting about that, one was that I misspelled "Afghanistan", and the other was that his talk here was in the middle 80s, not the early 80s.
Left out this: That posting was very recent, like this last weekend, so if you want to read it, open up my comment history and you won't have any trouble finding it.
If you really think a LAWRENCE Journal-World poll is an accurate reflection of KANSAS beliefs and attitudes, that's the funniest thing I have read all year.
It is an accurate reflection of how many times someone clicked and made a vote of some kind.
That is all.
"rarely or never" should be split into separate categories. Indicating that the answer may imply an agreeance with religious services but only going "rarely" for whatever reason is far different than a complete rejection of organized religion (at least) and "never" going. If you reject completely the need to ever go to a religious service, then rarely and never are miles apart. Would you comfortably answer "rarely or never" if the question was "How often do you steal?" or "How often do you attend a Klan rally?" (Not trying to compare a Klan rally with other religious services, just using it as an example that almost all people reject outright as something they would "never" attend no matter what.)
I see your point but I think it would be very difficult to find an adult who has never been to a wedding or a funeral service. The question doesn't ask if they agree with what they hear at such services, only how often they attend.
I don't know why you'd try to justify/mitigate your statement; a Klan rally is a very real Christian religious experience for the members who participate. It's absolutely no different than the crazies who babble in tongues, kiss snakes, and generally denounce everyone who isn't them.
I go to church when I go to sing in the Cherokee, Choctaw, Creek, and Kiowa languages.
Nice to know the missionaries didn't kill our languages. Yokoke Chahta anumpuli.
I'm sorry to say that I know for a fact that many Native languages are now extinct. And not just Native American languages, but hundreds of languages all over the world are disappearing. That reminds me of a Vietnamese person I knew years ago who told me of an old proverb that is commonly known in Vietnam (according to him, anyway), which went something like: "For each language you know, you gain another soul."
Not that long ago I had a rather lengthy conversation about the Biloxi language, which became extinct in the 1930s when the last Native who could speak the language died. The conversation was with a doctoral student here at KU who was writing his thesis on the Biloxi language, and he told me that he had plenty of material to work with.
But then, I was amazed when he told me that what he considered plenty of material to work with in order to reconstruct Biloxi to be was an old dictionary that really didn't have all that many words defined, and a textbook that had been used to instruct perhaps a sixth grade student. Those are the only two known extant books written in Biloxi. Perhaps there will be more found in the future, but that appears unlikely.
His only other resource was another Native language that was closely related, from which correct pronounciation could be inferred, but of course without a high degree of certainty.
That old proverb you quoted really makes me want to get out there and learn a new language. Do they offer any adult classes in Lawrence for learning a second language that isn't a college class? Maybe something offered through the library?
Not that I know of except for sign language, but I'm sure that if you call the Linguistics department at KU and ask an instructor or graduate student, you will get a definitive answer.
I don't know who exactly to call to find out about the sign language course that is offered either for free or at low cost here in town from time to time. I would suggest calling the library, surely someone there would know about it.
There are courses offered in Lashon Hakodesh (Hebrew: לשון הקודש; lit. "the Sacred Language" or "the Holy Language" or "the Holy Tongue") offered at nominal cost in Topeka and Kansas City.
I am not sure of the exact location in Kansas City, nor of the cost at either location, but it is nominal, I think something less than $100 for quite a lot of instruction. I've been told that you should have a working knowledge of the language after two years of study, if you work at it.
Just about everyone there will be either Jewish or working on a conversion to Judaism, so if you consider that option that will have to be all right with you. And, you will be urged to consider Jewish morals and values, from which Christian and Islamic morals and values are derived.
Private message me if you are interested in that option. I believe that classes begin in the fall.
I was looking more for a Spanish or Italian class but that does sound interesting. It's definitely something to think about! Thanks Ron!
Fellowship can be garnered in an auto repair shop, a college art department,a group of bicyclists, at a local nursery, a neighborhood association gathering, a favorite cafe,a favorite brewery,at a bike shop, a Peace and Justice group, in federal prison etc etc etc.
Just about anywhere that the sharing of similar interests, ideals, or experiences, as by reason of profession, religion, nationality or whatever takes place.
Fellowship can be garnered by a group that which believes in large oak trees.
"Fellowship can be garnered,,, in federal prison"
That option does not sound very good to me.
It is my assertion that Richard Perry, Jerry Moran and Sam Brownback worship our tax dollars and power. These people are NOT any closer to God than anyone else .... probably not as close as those they steal from and lie to.....
Why are Christians so racist, hateful and intolerant?
Not all Christians are. If you knew me, you would agree! :-)
Why are all Muslims terrorists?
Oh that's right, they aren't. It's just the few extremists who make the news...
They aren't "Christians". They're "Christianists". Big difference.
I know a woman in her 70s who considers herself an Atheist Catholic. She attends Mass every Sunday, a bible study group on Tuesday, and a prayer group on Wednesday night.
She doesn't believe in God, but she's interested in the bible as a document and the rituals associated with it.
A very fascinating woman.
Maybe she claims to be an Atheist Catholic, but actually is a Closet Protestant.
She says she's an Atheist Catholic which is odd enough. What is a Closet Protestant? I've never heard the term and don't even know what that means.
If I have to explain it, it won't be funny anymore!
I made up the term, based upon some reading I have done of some Jewish people many years in the past who were living in an Islamic society, and life was much easier if they put up a pretense of being Muslim, but never believed in the faith, and only went through the motions of attendance at the mosque and the five times a day prayer.
But at home, both in private traditions, prayer, and belief, they always remained Jewish.
They were referred to as "Closet Jews".
It does make sense now. Only thing is I'd reverse it and make it "Public (insert your religious beliefs here)."
Go through the public motions to fit into the culture or society while believing something different.
Kind of like me. The Agnostic who sang in the choir. In a small town there is a lot of pressure to attend church. So, I was the "Public Protestant." I played the expected role.
Latin? That's Greek to me.
I go to church as much as a I can...it usually averages out to every other weekend. I am not overly religious by any means, and I have a lot of qualms with my church (Catholic). That being said, there is something about going to church that I enjoy. It provides a sense of comfort, peace and community that I enjoy, and I cannot really explain why. Even if I do not believe everything that is being fed to me, I still enjoy going.
I actually understand this (more than anyone may know). All four of my children were christened in the Church. For years I went to mass on Christmas Eve and frequently went to the Eucharistic adoration service even if I didn't go to weekly mass. I loved popping in and lighting a candle at the Marion statue. Once a Catholic, always a Catholic.
Not really. I enjoyed the rituals and sensuality of church; the incense and stained glass. There are good things to it. One of the most moving funerals I ever attended was for a 12 year old girl who died in a car accident. The priest was wonderful and comforting to family and friends in a way I find rare these days. If people could just find a way to keep politics out of it (both church and governmental), church could be a very good thing.
I know too many real Christians to bash them for their beliefs, Cheese; the ones that believe in a gentle, loving and compassionate God.; the ones that are nonjudgmental and believe the best way to proselytize is being a good example, not shoving the Bible down someone's throat or forcing their "morals" on others. They leave judgment up to God and don't try to see past the plank in their own eyes.They don't believe in "supply side" Jesus and they don't confuse or mix politics with religion. They render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and leave him out of their church. They believe in the "rebel" Jesus; the one who said to care for the poor and comfort the sick and mourning and to pray alone. I respect and love it myself.
I don't "bash Christianity", I bash those who pay it lip service and claim to be "Christians"; the snakes in the Garden who have taken something fine and wonderful and turned it into something tawdry and dirty.
Let me repeat my favorite quote, "If Jesus ever did come back, it would take him three days just to stop puking at everything ever done "in His name.""
That's not "bashing Christianity", Cheese. That's bashing the people that have hijacked it.
Maybe this will help you to understand what I mean:
"If Jesus ever did come back, it would take him three days just to stop puking at everything ever done "in His name."
In order to do justice, He'd have to do a whole lot of raising of the dead.
I grew up in Boston, so it's hard to run away from the Catholic Church! :)
This actually give me hope that one day we will not be the punchline to a joke in a country that is itself becoming the punchline of a joke. I would never want religion to be forcibly removed. But one day it would be wonderful that when people claim a personal relationship with the ruler of the universe, we actually stop to think about what they are suggesting. I hope that we can find a similar sense of community, however, without the magic or supernatural thinking.
"Will that keep you from catching the flu?"
Yes. Because it will keep you at home and therefore not exposed to it.
I have a lot of friends who were raised Christian and say they're Christians and they never go to church. Only a few go regularly. I'm not a Christian and I go nearly every week and often attend classes on a weeknight. I just find this interesting. For many church is about community and social activities and not actual religion. Just saying you're attending a religious service means nothing if you don't actually believe or want to question and learn. Calling yourself a Christian means nothing if you don't actually believe in the tenets of the religion but also live them, or at least attempting to.
That's why I started going to Bible Study. I've been a Christian all my life, been baptized, go to church, etc. but I realized aside from the common Bible stories and Bible verses I didn't know or understand a lot in the Bible. Bible study has given me a chance as a grown women to ask questions and actually learn the verses. It helps me understand why something is worded the way it is or why certain things are being focused on. I have to admit I feel like I've actually learned more in the past year going to Sunday School and Bible Study then all of my adult life. The best thing about going to Bible Study for me is being able to ask the questions that I wouldn't be able to ask in the middle of church. Getting to know and care about the ladies in my class and Bible Study group is just an added perk!
I think that religious attendance varies during people's lifetimes. Personally, I attended when I was a kid with my parents, stopped altogether as a teenager, went back to Church in my late 20's as part of a personal journey of faith, and have been attending church again once a week for many years. I love the people, the feeling of the spirit that is present when we discuss Christ and His sacrifice for us--when we plan charitable programs and take joy in serving others. I avoid political discussions, because I believe when you begin to marry religion/spirituality/faith with politics, the dangerous downward cycle of violence takes hold-- I do not agree with Bill Maher and those who say religion is at the heart of all things terrible--in fact, it I believe that faith and religion are at the heart of many things good in this world--including the knowledge that we are all brothers and sisters, and that all that we have comes from God---those opporutnities we have to share our talents--those are not made by us, as much as we might want to think that----I also know from my perspective in faith that those who cloak their willingness to do violence in the name of their beliefs--whatever they may be--are decieved---weak individuals who are seeking acceptance and/or using the tenants of religious or other beliefs to amass power for their own selfish purposes. That is not religion--or faith--or any ethical philosophy---it is greed, avarice, and the unrighteous desire for power over others. I have to say that I also believe that Marx was right when he proposed the idea that some religious interpretations come from the popular economic philosophies of the day--in his time, opiate of the masses was his characterization of the man-made popular interpretation of scipture that told poor suffering working-class individuals to not seek after anything better for themselves but suffer through this life for a reward in heaven--girls, does that sound familiar?) --but I differ with Marx in that I believe that it was not religion itself of the doctrines of Christ that led to that misery---it was the intepretations of Christianity promulgated by some religious leaders of the day (Industiral Revolution) who misused and twisted the scriptures to support their economic agenda. So, if you ask me, I believe that all suffering inflicted by human beings on other human beings; violence, war, indifference, at its heart, is more about supporting and increasing economic disparities, then they it is about religion.
I don't believe in god or jesus. I don't believe in prayer...I make wishes while blowing candles out on birthday cakes...and I think prayer is about the same thing...but if it comforts you in some way, go on and do it. Just don't expect me to believe, go to church, or listen to it when you talk about faith and religion. When I die, I expect things to end, just wink out like a light. And I'm looking forward to that.
1985 or so. My girlfriend at the time was into god and she wouldn't fool around later if I didn't go to church with her. Unfortunately, she was episcopalian which meant lots of kneeling. I did like the incense though.
Due to some irregularities in the wine inventory and alleged transgressions and malfeasance in the course of service when I was an altar boy, I am no longer allowed upon consecrated ground.
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