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Do you support the recently changed law that allows concealed-carry permit-holders to bring loaded weapons into bars that don’t have a no-handgun sign posted on its doors?

Response Percent Votes
Yes.
 
50% 842
No.
 
48% 799
Not sure.
 
1% 18
Total 1659

Comments

vpete69 5 years, 10 months ago

I was almost killed this weekend by a drunk driver. He crossed the median and drove into oncoming traffic on 69 HWY and then rolled and flipped his car about 8 times. I was heading north, his flying "death machine" heading south on the north side of the highway only missed me by about 6-8 feet. He was drunk and fell asleep at the wheel. We have more deadly things (STATISTICALLY PROVEN) to worry about than the sober, law abiding citizens carrying guns that have accounted for ZERO crime in the last 18 months. Here is what I propose. NOBODY under the age of 21, under any circumstance is allowed in ANY establishment that serves alcohol. Nobody who has ever had a DUI is allowed in any establishment that serves alcohol under any circumstance. Nobody who is on any kind of probation or diversion due to an alcohol related crime, nor anyone who cannot drink alcohol for ANY reason is allowed in any liquor serving establishment under any circumstance. The reason for this? People who meet those descriptions break the law by drinking, just like CC licensees shoot people in bars.

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roguesword 5 years, 10 months ago

A statistic commonly used in Philosophy courses is the apparent correlation between Ice Cream sales and violent crime. Ice cream sales go up, so does violent crime. So does ice cream cause violence? No the factor left out of the argument as part of the educatoinal process is that the temperature increases too. What does this mean? It means that a persons judgement can be effected in an adverse fashion by external stimuli. A perfectly rational person in a bad situation can make bad decisions. You'll find this is a common theme among criminals and drivers. People can't manage a car at 70mph with consideration and responsibility, what makes you think they can manage a firearm?Now mind you, I'm in favor CC laws so that I can protect my family from people who make bad decisions. I would however be all for more strict licensing requirements for drivers. Like also being 21, a mandatory waiting period, undergoing an FBI background check, a mandatory training session taught by an expert, etc...But what really gets me is that our local politicians are saying they "didn't know" that the laws were being relaxed becaus it wasn't read aloud to them. I say that's an admission of incompetence that is more dangerous than the guns the law is about.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

Stereotyping and hyperbole, just the things for a poster with a number as a user name.

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

^well, just like i mentioned earlier. i lived in ks pre-2006 when there was no cch law. i did not carry a firearm. starting in jan 2006 when i got my permit, i started to carry. nothing changed. for anyone. not even for me. didn't make me feel tough, didn't make me feel cool. same old same old same old same old....did i mentioned nothing for the rest of creation changed after that?if it makes you feel cool or feel tough to carry a handgun, that's your own deal, not mine. the law will deal with you separately. for my fellow law-abiding non-carrying citizens, those types of people are but a small minority. in ks, probably about a dozen out of 14,000 permit holders. many of them have already lost their license (iirc there's been several dozen turned down/revoked/suspended/etc), the important thing is BEFORE they've had a chance to screw up. every bunch has it's bad apple or two i guess.

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1029 5 years, 10 months ago

Guns are so cool. As an ignorant rural, I cherish my right to carry a gun wherever I please. It makes me feel tough and cool and American. If everyone had a gun, there would be no crime. It only makes sense. Why is it so hard for more educated and worldly people to understand that? By the way, did I mention how tough it makes me feel to carry a gun?

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RobertMarble 5 years, 10 months ago

Too many here miss the point- guns aren't causing crimes, It's a people thing. Face it- if guns cause crimes then pencils cause misspelled words & matches cause fire.

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KoolKat 5 years, 10 months ago

I have a CCH Liscence and I have recently been in several bars to eat lunch. There are a significant number of bars that also serve good food. I don't drink alcoholic products period and just because I'm eating in a bar doesn't automatically mean that i"m going to get drunk. Normally I drink water with my lunch but occasionally I'll splurge and get a diet soft drink. When you make the assumption that if a CCH holder goes into a bar with his gun that he is going to get drunk whie he has his gun is verry irresponsible of you. I have never seen anyone intoxicated while I was eating my lunch and if I did I would probably leave immediately before I ordered because I don't want to get into a bad situation if I can avoid it. If you as a non CCH person walk to a bar to get drunk it is your businness but once I see your drunk I'm leaving. If you drive to the bar and get drunk and then drive home it is everybodys businness because you are now in control of a deadly wheapon because you have made the illogical decision to possibly kill several people because while driving under the influance. Do I carry when I go t these bars to eat? That is my businness because I can leagally but I don't necessarrliy. You won't know and don't need to know. There are several sports bars in Kansas City at the Ledgends. Several of us friends go to an afternooon movie and after the movie go to a sports bar to eat and watch a game. As I said before I don't drink and I haven't seen anyone drink to excess while I was there. Are those of you who don't want a CCH holder in a bar saying I should avoid being anywhere there is alcohol because I could get drunk just because I'm in a bar? There are drunks everywhere. Drunks drink pretty much anywhere they want to even in cars which is deffinitely the worst place because they are behind the wheel of a very deadly wheapon. That combination really scares me but I'm not scared of the possibility that a CCH holder might have a gun with him in a bar because he will not drink to excess if he does have a drink and probably won't even drink while he is there. To sum this up Just because someone goes to a bar doesn't meen that they will drink while they are there. There are other things you can do in a bar besides drink such as talk to friends, watch a game, etc. Getting drunk shouldn't be why you go to a bar you can do that at home.

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Jim Phillips 5 years, 10 months ago

cool, Perhaps you should study the Second Amendment insead of just reading the words and having people tell you what it means. By your logic, or lack of, only the Militia has rights protected under the First, Second, Fourth, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments. What you are stating is the classic and disproven argument that the word "people" applies only to the Militia. The word "people" is used in all of the aforementioned Amendments. You should also know that the government did not take control of militias until 1792, which was several month after the Bill of Rights was ratified. Prior to that the militia was every able-bodied man over the age of 18 to age 45.

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JLoh21 5 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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JLoh21 5 years, 10 months ago

So here I am in a motel in Woodward OK.. The $&#@&$ pass key card doesn't work on the exterior doors. I walk around from where I have parked near my room and enter the motel at the main entrance (opposite my room). I tell the young clerk that my $%$$&$ pass card key is not working. She replies, "Well I had to turn off the outside doors because some lady keeps trying to sneak her dog in." So please know that the leftist education system has been very successful in indoctrinating the youth of this country. It is better to punish everyone instead of dealing with those who ignore the rlaw/ules.

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

they are not making their case. all i have read about is a lot of what-ifs and maybe this might happen or maybe that might happen.do you know how many thousands of people i have been in and around and near and they don't care if i have a firearm or not. for the life of me, i don't understand why you would even care about something you never even know exists. my firearm is concealed and nobody knows, i'm just a plain, ordinary citizen about my daily business interfering with no one.are you afraid that the firearm will go off and shoot someone on its own? are you afraid the gun owner might start shooting and the bullet hit the wrong target? are you afraid the criminal will take my firearm and use it on innocent people?otoh the criminal is afraid that when he tries to commit crimes against me, i will fight back to stop the threat. the criminal doesn't want me to carry a firearm for personal protection because the criminal wants to be able to 100% control me to the extent he will decide if i die or not. the criminal is angry and upset when he knows that i have a firearm because that's not fair to him that i can stop him from committing crimes against me and threatening me, interfering with the crimes he loves and lives on. so i know why the criminals hate me and my firearms. why do you?can you please spend a lot of time on the crime fighting blog and argue with the criminals over there just as much as you argue with us here and try to get them to change their nasty ways? if you can do that, i won't need my personal firearm with me at all times. but i'm pretty sure that argument has already taken place. ultimately you ignored the criminal's desire to do wrong, you passed/changed laws to stop them, contain them, control them and punish them and....well, they ignored every single statute and broke them over and over again at lightning speed and could care less about those laws. they believe the law pertains to YOU, not to them.so we went to the law books with a final trump card, the kansas personal and family protection act: http://www.ksag.org/content/page/id/90

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justfornow 5 years, 10 months ago

It's amazing that the lot of you are exercising your right to free speech by advocating that another's right to legally carry a gun be stomped on. Simply amazing and the word ignorant comes to mind......What's next.... The powers retained by the States and the people....Nope scratch that one..... How about a Women's right to vote or Slavery, whats next?? Every single right should be cherished and fought for, but the American people have lost the Republic.

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RobertMarble 5 years, 10 months ago

The great thing is that you have the choice to carry or not. That's pretty simple. So why all the animosity and mud slinging here?.......oh wait, it's because once again certain individuals think they should be able to take the freedom of choice from you. Nice.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

+++++++++++++++++++++++there is no 'right' to carry a gun +except +in a duly+ formed militiajustfornow (Anonymous) says:It's amazing that the lot of you are exercising your right to free speech by advocating that another's right to legally carry a gun be stomped on. Simply amazing and the word ignorant comes to mind.+++++

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RobertMarble 5 years, 10 months ago

Houston Chronicle, Houston TX, 03/28/08Angela and Jeffery Patterson were watching TV when a man wearing a bandana and carrying a pistol burst into their apartment. Police say he demanded money and the TV, then ordered the couple to disrobe. He watched Angela more closely, "He didn't pay attention to me so I charged at him," Jeffrey explained. As her husband struggled with the intruder, Angela ran to the bedroom and grabbed her pistol. "I refuse to be a victim," Angela said. "He put a gun in my face. If you're bold enough to do that, you're bold enough to shoot us." Angela stepped back into the living room and fired, killing the intruder.

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RobertMarble 5 years, 10 months ago

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Atlanta, GA 3/22/08When an intruder broke down Robert Jenkins' door, he seemed to doubt Jenkins' marksmanship, "When he saw me, he said, "Give me that gun,"" the 81 year old Jenkins said. "Then he lunged at me, so I shot him." But police say the incident didn't end there. While Jenkins' wife called 911, the intruder again dove at Jenkins, striking him in the head and chest. Jenkins fired his .38 caliber pistol a second time, killing the intruder. "If it happened again, I'd do the same thing, but I hope I don't have to" Jenkins said.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

cool, posting the same lame link over & over doesn't improve the discussion.

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Rationalanimal 5 years, 10 months ago

If people are getting so slammed at bars that their judgment is impaired relating to handling guns, then we ought to require mandatory breath tests when people leave, or even outlaw bars altogether. The right to bear arms is certainly constitutional proscribed whereas alcohol is not. I challenge anyone to show me any evidence that supports that gun related deaths have a greater occurence than alcohol related deaths in the equation of alcohol, cars, guns and bars. Thus, if you're truly interested in curtailing deaths among these elements, eliminate alcohol.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

what we need is 'bullet control' - see Chris Rock:videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juLQBeZXmPU

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Rationalanimal 5 years, 10 months ago

"if nobody carried a gun, nobody would get shot. I don't see why people think the opposite:"Instead they'd get stabbed.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

For those who haven't read the whole thread, this change in the law took effect 1 July, 2007. If there have been any incidents of a Kansas CCH holder getting drunk in a bar and shooting other patrons, I've not seen a link. That's not the sort of thing the opponents of CCH would tend to keep under wraps.

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beatrice 5 years, 10 months ago

It appears that I was incorrect, and a gun is indeed a tool. I checked the dictionary. There are a total of 17 definitions for tool, and a couple certainly apply for a gun. 1. an implement, esp. one held in the hand, as a hammer, saw, or file, for performing or facilitating mechanical operations. 5. anything used as a means of accomplishing a task or purpose: Education is a tool for success. 8. Underworld Slang. a. a pistol or gun. 9. Slang: Vulgar. penis. Now, I'm not the one calling a gun a "tool," so don't shoot me. I'm just the messenger.

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redneck 5 years, 10 months ago

Logic, since you like to use the word weapon so much. I googled weapon and this is part of the definition. "Weapons may be used to attack and defend, and consequently also to threaten or protect." So you use a weapon for several uses. You can attack and threaten others or you can use it to defend yourself and protect those you love. Criminals like to attack or threaten and that is why they are called criminals. Law abiding citizens simply use a gun to defend or protect. That is what it is about, not weather it was DESIGNED to kill. That is a no brainer. I may not have a degree as long as you're arm, but I was raised with some common sense. You're not using common sense Logic.

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chzypoof1 5 years, 10 months ago

Logic, unfortunately you have been swayed by the LJWorld and other bloggers on this site. Guns are NOT dangerous. The person holding the gun is dangerous. Guns don't kill people....people not properly trained/raised with them kill people. When you have solid statistics that show that someone with a CC permit caused a crime, come back......Poof

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redneck 5 years, 10 months ago

Hey everybody, this information may be of some interest. I'm watching the History channel and they are telling me that chain saws kill or injur 400,000 people every year. I'm pretty sure that is more deaths or injuries caused by honest citizens who have CC permits. Maybe we should outlaw chain saws. Our constitution doesn't state that we have the right to bear chain saws, but it DOES state that we have the right to bear arms. Put that in you're pipe and smoke it or maybe you need to put it in you're roach clip.

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roguesword 5 years, 10 months ago

Laws pertaining to Handguns are not what were intended when the right to bear arms was penned IMHO. Nor were they intended to protect our right to hunt for food. The weapons that are designed for the purposes that were in mind under that particular constitutional right are already outlawed. It is rather difficult to protect your nation from enemies foreign and domestic with a pistol. Just my two cents.

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

i would rather be able to carry my firearm into a bar if i want to. but i am being totally reasonable by saying that i believe it is well within the right of the bar owner to decide if i am allowed to do so or not. the current law in ks allows the bar owner to decide and amazingly, the bar owner should enjoy 99% compliance. if he does not want a legal permit holder to enter his bar with a legal firearm, he has control over that. if he does not want a criminal to enter his bar with a firearm, the law is on his side as well. but i'm pretty sure the compliance level will be in the single digits if not less (read ZERO). how does this make sense to spend your time and resources on, ok i'll give a little (nobody is perfect) 2% of the problem? problem guns in the bar is 2% cch and 98% criminals. <= not a fact. ;)my point is, permit holders abide by the law; you pass it, we abide by it until it gets changed. i had a permit before this change in law went into effect and i never went into a bar with my firearm. someone asked earlier....the weapon is concealed so that only the gun owner knows. no one else on the planet is supposed to know. that's how it works. and (for me) it works best that way, so there is no discussion about my gun, there is no concern for my gun, there is no speculation or fear or wonder or anything from non-gun people. imagine that, i can carry, and at the same time you get to go about your daily life unhindered, unimpeded, and unfeathered with not even a single ounce of loss in safety due to my carrying. that's the beauty of concealed carry. i get to exercise my right and at the same time, it has zero effect on you. if it has more than zero effect on you, then you are simply making it up because you have no idea i have a firearm. just don't let it bother you, really it's quite easy. if you say crime is minuscule, then you should be happy to know that cch is microscule.

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logicsound04 5 years, 10 months ago

"1) The young man assaulted getting out of his car was not in a bad neighborhood or doing anything wrong. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.We agree that CCH would have helped this man2) The man sitting on his porch. This was not a home invastion and a CCH would have helped him.How would CCH have helped him where a home firearm wouldn't have? I imagine the drunk person surprised him, if he was able to get close enough to use a knife without the man walking inside his house and locking the door. Perhaps he would have been able to pull a gun while being stabbed, perhaps not. This one seems like a wash to me. As an aside, do you think the drunk man would have pulled a knife on this gentleman had his firearm been strapped to his hip (instead of concealed)?3) We'll never know about the man whose body was found by the railroad tracks. But I doubt that was a home invasion.I didn't say every example you provided was a home invasion. This very well may have been a good case for CCH.4) The Oklahoma girls were too young to have guns. But if they had been two adult women that too would have been a case where a CCH could have saved their lives. Or if someone with a CCH had been with them.IF??? If they were adult women, they may not have been attacked. If someone had been with them they may not have been attacked. This is one example where a CCH law would've made no difference.I'd like to finish by again reiterating that I am not condeming guns in general. I just think there are an inordinate number of situations that are used by the pro-gun crowd to justify CCH, when in reality, CCH would only truly prevent a fraction of those situations.I see it sort of like requiring every car to be on tracks (instead of driven freely by the driver) because accidents occur. You have to measure the benefit by the risk, and I'm just not sure that the benefit of CCH is worth the risk of having that many more guns on the street.I understand that many pro-CCH'er don't believe there is much risk. I disagree, because guns are dangerous.

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logicsound04 5 years, 10 months ago

""When you say that someone is out target shooting as practice to shoot and kill something is jumping a bit."----------------I didn't say that. My only point was that even the non-weapon uses for a gun are rooted in it's design as a weapon.Shooting targets has become a sport, but it didn't start off that way. Target practice was originally designed for people to make sure they could properly defend themselves when they needed to. It has evolved into a sport because it require skill and because it's fun to do.As I said before, I have no desire to ban guns, but I think the whole gun debate would be served well to eliminate the extremes of both sides. It's disingenuous to depict guns as harmless tools, just as it's disingenuuous to depict guns as the cause of crime.The fact that you don't see using a gun to kill a living being as using "a weapon" is a very telling example of what I'm talking about. Sure, game hunting is a sport, but it happens to be a sport that involves using a weapon to kill something else. This is not liberal spin on my part--this is fact.I agree that the original design intent of an object does not make it inherently less dangerous, but if you are going to try and sell me on the idea that a gun is no more dangerous than any of those items (duct tape, icepick, screwdriver, rope, hammer), then we will continue to disagree.A tool for self-defense is a weapon in it's purest definition. Just because it is a weapon being used for a just cause doesn't make it any less a weapon. You are continuing to use the same spin that prevents any middle ground on the issue.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

Well, I reckon it's a good thing that cool doesn't make the law.

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justfornow 5 years, 10 months ago

It's amazing that the lot of you are exercising your right to free speech by advocating that another's right to legally carry a gun be stomped on. Simply amazing and the word ignorant comes to mind.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

no guns in bars / (period)

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Logicsound04 says.....For all those examples you provided, how many of them would have reasonably been prevented by a CCH?Home invasions/burglaries don't count, for obvious reasons, and four of the examples you gave were just that.______1) The young man assaulted getting out of his car was not in a bad neighborhood or doing anything wrong. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time. 2) The man sitting on his porch. This was not a home invastion and a CCH would have helped him. 3) We'll never know about the man whose body was found by the railroad tracks. But I doubt that was a home invasion. 4) The Oklahoma girls were too young to have guns. But if they had been two adult women that too would have been a case where a CCH could have saved their lives. Or if someone with a CCH had been with them.

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nparkhill 5 years, 10 months ago

logicsound04 my reason for listing off those tools as things that can be used as a weapon is because they have been used as weapons. My point there is even though the gun was designed as a tool to kill things there are also peaceful things that are done with them. When you say that someone is out target shooting as practice to shoot and kill something is jumping a bit. The shooters in the many kinds of shooting leagues and even the Olympics are not practicing to kill something. They are target practicing to get better and compete at the level that is needed.Personally i dont see hunting as using a gun as a weapon. I grew up in rural Iowa before moving here and hunting was seen as an activity or sport. Yes that activity or sport involves killing an animal, but at the same time i respected the animals i hunted and never shot more than i was allowed to by law. It was also a time to be with my father and/or grandfather.Just because a hammer, ice pick, screw driver, rope, and duct tape had peaceful purposes for being invented does not make them any less dangerous when in the wrong hands. In the wrong hands just about ANYTHING can be a weapon, same with firearms.As with everything I listed off firearms have a peaceful use and only in the wrong hands is it a weapon. And in defensive uses of a handgun it is not a weapon but a tool of self defense. Weapons are used by criminals with the intent to do harm to others, just about anything can fall in that category.

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OnlyTheOne 5 years, 10 months ago

A big newspaper created brouhaha over nothing.All the bar owners have to do is post the "approved" sign. The law was designed to prevent some confusion because guns were automatically prohibited in Bars and they (the bar owner's) didn't have to show the sign whereas it was legal to take a handgun into restaurants serving alcohol unless they displayed the sign.Com'on Dolph move onto other more important commentary!

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logicsound04 5 years, 10 months ago

MandM,For all those examples you provided, how many of them would have reasonably been prevented by a CCH?Home invasions/burglaries don't count, for obvious reasons, and four of the examples you gave were just that.I have no problem with guns. I agree that law-abiding citizens should have the right to protect themselves and after all, we do have a Constitutional amendment that specifically endorses citizen ownership of firearms.It just seems to me that the pro-gun crowd has no notion of a reasonable boundary to gun ownership. For example, the fact that we are talking about home invasions in the context of a law that allows CCH anywhere that it is not specifically prohibited, even a place where the situation might not be the best place for a firearm, even if the owner of that firearm is sober, is a perfect example.I get so tired of hearing about the general notion of "crime" as a case for CCH, when more often than not, the best way to avoid becoming a victim is to avoid certain situation. It's not a matter of living in fear, but of having common sense. I think the situations where a CCH would prevent a potential crime from occurring are far less frequent than the pro-gun crowd claims.

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logicsound04 5 years, 10 months ago

"A gun is a tool. Its a tool of sport, hunting, and yes self defense. A gun is only a weapon if it is used as one. Hammers, screw drivers, rope, ice picks, knives, duct tape, and the list goes on."------------------This is incredibly disingenuous.When a gun is used for hunting, it is used as a weapon.When a gun is used for self-defense, it is used as a weapon.The only time a gun is NOT used as a weapon is when it is used for sport in target practice. And even in that case, target practice implies that you are preparing (practicing) for another intended use of the gun.The gun was created as a weapon.A screwdriver, though it CAN be used as a weapon, was created to drive a screw into a surface.A hammer, though it CAN be used as a weapon, was created to drive nails into a surface.A rope, though it CAN be used as a weapon, was created to bind, assist in climbing, tow, etc...An icepick, though it CAN be used as a weapon, was created to break ice apart.Duct tape, though it CAN be used as a weapon (I suppose), was created to seal air ducts at the seams.A knife is the closest case you can make, and it still has many reasonable purposes that don't involve using it as a weapon--cutting a rope or roll of duct tape, whittling or carving a piece of wood, etc....The only time a gun is only a tool, but not a weapon, is when one uses it in a way other than it was intended.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

I don't keep the spare tire in my car's trunk aired up because I'm terrified of having a flat. I consider having a good spare a reasonable precaution. That's pretty much how I look at legally carrying a concealed sidearm.

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nparkhill 5 years, 10 months ago

"if you have to carry a gun then what have you done to cause that fear???"_______Its not fear its the logical understanding that bad things can happen to good people at any time, and any place. Its the understanding that the police are under no obligation to protect you or me as an individual. Meaning that that bad guy who breaks into your house with the intent to do you physical harm and you dial 911 thinking the cops will be there to protect you think again. LEO view a 6minute response time as fast, the average response time for such incidents is 6-15 minutes. Bt the time any LEO arrive there job will only consist of containing the crime scene and investigating.I have a suggestion for those of you who believe guns are bad and that no one should own one. Take a huge sign that says "This is a Gun-Free Home" and post it on your front door. According to your logic you will be safe and no harm will come to you. Lets see how long that logic holds up.

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Dixie Jones 5 years, 10 months ago

if you have to carry a gun then what have you done to cause that fear???

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nparkhill 5 years, 10 months ago

"It is a weapon, after all. Unlike a car, it's primary purpose is to injure another person. (so let's all agree to stop with the comparisons to cars and other items that CAN be used to kill someone, instead of being intended to kill someone)"___________A gun is a tool. Its a tool of sport, hunting, and yes self defense. A gun is only a weapon if it is used as one. Hammers, screw drivers, rope, ice picks, knives, duct tape, and the list goes on. They are all tools but at the same time they have been used in cases involving murder, torture, and rape. A tool is only a tool until it is used to something to commit a violent crime then in the laws eyes it is viewed as a weapon. The most common tool used day in and day out are vehicles. They are intended to get people and goods from point A to point B. But in the same time have been used as weapons, both intentional and unintentional, and they kill far more people in the country on a daily basis than guns do. That is why people use the example of a car.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Logicsound04 says.... do have to wonder what kind of lives people are living that they feel so in jeopardy in Lawrence, KS that they need to carry a gun around.______I live in a community smaller than Lawrence and with less population. You would think there would be even less to worry about right? Within the past year these things have happened in our area (3 counties with a total population of about 15,000)A young man was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He was jumped from behind and assaulted. He received a head injury and nearly died. He spent a week in the neurological ICU in Wichita. A gentleman was sitting on his porch. A young man who was intoxicated approached and asked him if he would drive him home. The man refused. The young man pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed him numerous times. A body of an unidentified man was found by the railroad tracks in a neighboring community. A farmer woke up in the early morning hours and found people in his home burglarizing it. He confronted them. One ran out of the house. The man fired a warning shot and ended up holding a second burglar at gunpoint until the sheriff's department arrived. The next day they found out the buglars had already taken many of his tools from his barn. A few days, maybe a week later another farmer in a nearby community apparently walked in on a burglary in progress at his home during the day. He was tied to a chair and shot by the burglars. There have been numerous burglaries (our grocery store was hit three times in a little over a month), home invasions, and other crimes in our area. This is not in or near Lawrence. Again this is in an area of three counties together where the combined population is about 15,000.This last item is not in my area but in rural Oklahoma two girls were walking on a country road near their house. Someone shot both of the girls numerous times in the chest and head. Two different guns were used on both girls. My point is, bad things can happen to good people without provication. Don't live in fear but live wisely.

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logicsound04 5 years, 10 months ago

"We are not the individuals you need to worry about."--------------Perhaps not you, nparkhill. However, I have seen more than one self-proclaimed CCH'er express his/her plan to disregard the no-handgun signs.It's notions like that that make the line in the sand between "law-abiding CCH'ers" and "criminals" less distinct than some would have us believe.Bottom line: I worry about ANYONE with a gun, because I have no reason to trust one person over another, just because they were able to pass the requirements for CCH. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible to tell a legal CCH'er from an illegal CCH'er by looks alone. It is a weapon, after all. Unlike a car, it's primary purpose is to injure another person. (so let's all agree to stop with the comparisons to cars and other items that CAN be used to kill someone, instead of being INTENDED to kill someone)

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nparkhill 5 years, 10 months ago

Wow Im seeing words like liberal and conservative being thrown around out there. Since when do we have to belong to a specific group of people to believe in our right to life and the right to defend that life? I'm not liberal, nor am i a conservative. If i have learned anything in the last couple years of being out in the real world its that the world is a very unforgiving place. You dont have to be of a particular political demographic to understand this..There are people out there who would rather shoot you for your car with a fresh tank of gas than pay for the car or the gas. There are people out there who have no appreciation of life and would rather shoot someone and others over an inadimate object or printed paper rather than earning it themselves. And then there are the CCH individuals who understand these things and want to ability to defend themselves if they are the ones this is happening too.and there is no way to avoid it.Im a 22 year old college student. I will be legally licensed to carry a concealed handgun in July. I will not carry if I have plans to drink. I will not carry in any posted business. And I will respect and abide by the laws. If in over a year this law has been passed and there hasnt been one single issue with CCH individuals then why are you worrying about them? CCH individuals understand that alcohol and guns dont mix. Most of the licensed people i have talked to havent had a drink in years. Or if they do have a drink their handgun is unloaded and locked up. I even find myself taking my handgun, unloading it, and locking it up before i even grab a beer out of the fridge when Im home.We are not the individuals you need to worry about. The people you need to worry about are the ones who carry past those signs, dont have a license, and have no reguard for human life.

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logicsound04 5 years, 10 months ago

""Liberals" and anti-gunners live fear-based lives."---------------Let's examine that statement.....Who feels the need to carry a gun at all times for protection?Who believes that the risk of criminal attack is so great that a concealed firearm is necessary at all times?Who thinks CCH laws are necessary to prevent the "common" occurrence of shooting sprees?If you said "liberals" to answer any of those questions, you are so far out of touch with reality that there is no point in discussing it with you.I'm not one to take away a person's right to carry a firearm. I do have to wonder what kind of lives people are living that they feel so in jeopardy in Lawrence, KS that they need to carry a gun around, including into a bar when they go out with their friends. When was the last time anyone posting here was in the type of skirmish at a bar where a gun would've provided the appropriate response to the situation?Unless all these CCH'ers wear a kevlar vest everytime they go out (because they need to protect themselves), the "personal protection" argument rings a bit hollow.That being said, I am NOT in favor of banning guns. I still think our culture is far too gun-obsessed in the name of paying lip-service to the albatross of personal protection.

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RETICENT_IRREVERENT 5 years, 10 months ago

rabb, open carry is subject to local ordinances in Kansas. Licensed concealed carry is not. - snapAmending your comment slightly...Licensed concealed carry rules are uniform statewide.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

rabb, open carry is subject to local ordinances in Kansas. Licensed concealed carry is not.

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rabb 5 years, 10 months ago

Why not walk into the saloon with your gun proudly displayed on your hip/holster like in the old west? Why conceal your weapon? Afraid that someone will then see what a frightened little wimp you are? You think that someone is actually going to shoot you? You think anyone gives a crap about you? Are you that important? Random acts of violence do occur, but they are rare. Most victims of shootings are shot by people that they know; for example, Dick Cheney. Just be thankful that you don't personally know Mr. Cheney.

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ClaroAtaxia 5 years, 10 months ago

I agree with MandM. Why do we allow cars at bars? I'm also curious why you assume a CCH holder in a bar is going to be drinking? I don't drink, and I can tell you that a bar is not the safest place in the world. Why do I not have my constitutional rights, just because I'm in a bar where other people are drinking? You all need to QUIT being scared into seeing only one side. What happened to liberty and personal responsibility?I thought we had laws that punished CCH holders from carrying while intoxicated already anyway?

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KoolKat 5 years, 10 months ago

When I was much younger I would go to the bar with a friend of mine on a regular basis because he planned on drinking. I didn't drink and still don't but I was his designated driver even before that term became popular. Just becase your in a bar doesn't meen you are a drunk or even drink. A person with a CCH either won't carry his gun into a bar if he plans to drink or if he carries a gun in he will not drink excessively because if he does he will likely loose his CCH liscence which he has invested a lot of time and money ito aquireing. The typical CCH holder will not do anything to jeprodise his liscence.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

hwarangdo (Anonymous) says: gayokay - well said! Indeed, why are the non-liberals the ones packin'?Guess I'm a 'liberal' by M's standards; however, I don't live in fear. I always carry my "weapons" with me:1) faith in God (can we still say that?)2) postive attitude3) hands and feet (as in martial arts training)4) extreme patience with brain-less pro-gun, paranoids who even want guns in our national parks : to shoot bears? : or bambi? :________Don't point that term at me. I don't use labels like "liberal". I don't live in fear. I don't drink. I wear my seat belt, I eat all my fruits and vegetables and yes I have a CC License. Do I LOVE guns? No I don't. I also have faith in God, I avoid places that have a higher risk of something bad happening, I use my brain, I use my feet, Heck I use my cell phone too. My very last resort would be the use my gun. Something I hope I will never have to do.

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 10 months ago

Once again, there are many instances of CCH folks saving lives, breaking up robberies etc. No I am not going to look up the statistics.. If you don't believe me, you look them up. If I know personally of an instance here in town. That tells me there are many more. I don't see what folks are so afraid of. Criminals are the ones to fear, and they always are packin'

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

firearms in the national parks, that's another topic. firearms in the national park are not for bears or even for hunting. firearms in the national park are for personal protection against criminals. if you think there is no crime in the nps (which i believe there is) then you won't see any guns or even be aware of them or even hear about them. the beauty is your awareness and contact with guns disappear along with crime.and don't say bringing guns into the nps will result in more shootings or accidents. there are already quite a few illegal guns in the nps and a tiny few more legal folks bringing in our legal handguns will not result in bad things. don't mistake the good guys for the bad guys. i can't stress that enough.

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hwarangdo 5 years, 10 months ago

gayokay - well said! Indeed, why are the non-liberals the ones packin'?Guess I'm a 'liberal' by M's standards; however, I don't live in fear. I always carry my "weapons" with me:1) faith in God (can we still say that?)2) postive attitude3) hands and feet (as in martial arts training)4) extreme patience with brain-less pro-gun, paranoids who even want guns in our national parks ... to shoot bears? ... or bambi? ... Am I "anti-gun"? Not necessarily ... just know that guns and booze don't mix well.

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Jason Bowers-Chaika 5 years, 10 months ago

"Liberals" and anti-gunners live fear-based lives.Then why are the non-liberals the ones packin'?www.KansasEqualityCoalition.org

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Jim Phillips 5 years, 10 months ago

The Brady Center! A wonderful, non-politically motivated or agenda setting group of unbiased investigative reporters. The moveon.org of gun control.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Bravo Kens. Very well said.

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Marion Lynn 5 years, 10 months ago

"Liberals" and anti-gunners live fear-based lives.

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

i want to be on all of your sides. where is the poll where we together can demand and chastise criminals for carrying illegal guns? where do we all team together and make our voice heard that we don't like that they carry guns on the street everyday, they have no training, no holster to properly secure their pistol, no skills or training, and most of all, they don't care if anyone else gets hurt or injured. i want to visit that poll so i can waste my time trying to make my voice heard knowing they could care less what i think or say. and after your brief visit there, you will come back to this one and realize you are fighting against the wrong people.in the meantime, me...a law-abiding citizen...not a texas resident but a kansas resident, i don't contribute to crime stats; i don't commit crimes so you're not talking about me. and maybe i don't help them [lower] either because i never ever plan to draw my weapon, pretty sure i will never have to. have you ever known or heard of a kansas permit holder actually firing his weapon in self-defense? i haven't. well, maybe one or two times. lol for the record, my firearm is for use to protect myself and my family only when grave bodily harm or death is imminent. if i draw my weapon and fire, it is because it is a last resort, nothing else could be done, someone or myself is about to be killed for sure, and the only way i know how to stop the threat is fire my weapon. if you look at it that way, it's obvious you don't need to worry about a cch permit holder playing cop or shooting the "wrong" person or bullets flying across the parking lot or breaking up drunk fights. when was the last time you were in such a position, right before someone was about to be killed and you know it and you knew death was inevitable? don't you wish you had a gun to consider stopping that poor soul from ending up dead?i am not in love with guns. but it's what i use to defend myself in case someone wants to kill me AND tries to kill me. i don't draw down on bank robbers, i don't chase hit and run suspects, i don't break up street fights with a gun. that's for law enforcement, i am not the police....and don't want to be. my primary tool is my cellphone which i use for dialing 911 and being a good witness. don't believe there are folks out there that will kill you in seconds to get your car or your wallet? again, i run if i have to, i leave before trouble starts, i do my best to stay out of trouble, i call police. but in the end, sometimes criminals find you; i won't just standby by some idiot criminal who has nothing to live for and no hope or future just kills me. the kansas law was passed to give me the right to protect myself with a firearm and i will exercise and abide by that law until it is repealed.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

hwarangdo (Anonymous) says: Glad I don't drink or go to bars, and I do own a gun but don't want a CC permit because one can't carry it most places anyway. ______hwarangdo, I don't seem to have many problems in my community. I can carry at the grocery store, my auto parts store, the hardware store, every service station, the city parks. Heck I even plan to go to the local movie theater tonight where they allow CC. There are only 6 businesses where I live that don't allow it and I respect their wishes. But if I want to go to Applebee's, or grandma's kitchen restaurant downtown. I would like to be able to go. Regardless of whether they offer beer or wine with their meals. I don't drink but I like to go places like these that do serve alcohol. I'd prefer to leave it up to the businesses to decide whether to allow CC Licenced patrons in the door. Regardless of their wishes criminals do not respect those signs and will carry their weapons in.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

shlomoek (Anonymous) says: MandM so you are telling that you walk around with a loaded gun hidden somewhere on your body everyday, and that you do this to protect your family? I just don't buy that. I'm sure you love and want to protect your family, but you must love guns a lot more than me.________Yes I do carry a gun to protect myself and my family. This is following the law in Kansas that is called the "Personal and Family Protection Act" Beatrice, My comparision was a gun and a seatbelt. They are both used to protect your life. We both have a choice to make. We can eaither use these to protect ourselves or we can choose not to use these to protect ourselves. That is our choice. Personally I use my seatbelt. and I do have a CC License. When my children were growing up they wore helmets when they rode their bicycles, they wear them now when they ride motorcycles. I also carry a cell phone that can help me in times of emergency.......as long as I am in an area with service.

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beatrice 5 years, 10 months ago

MandM: A gun is a weapon, not a tool. It isn't a wrench or a screwdriver or a hammer, all of which can be used for protection but they have another, primary purpose. The only purpose of a gun is to harm or kill someone or something. Yes, they can be used to shoot targets, but that doesn't take away the primary purpose. Insisting that the family wear crash helmets while walking around to protect them against an accidental fall would be more like a seatbelt. But such defensive behavior might seem as too much, as going beyond what is needed for daily protection. Others simply feel this way about regularly carrying a gun, that it is too much. Now, regarding the CCH and bars issue, I don't have an objection to the ruling. I agree with those who say that the CCH folks aren't the problem. However, I think all gun owners should be required to go through the CCH training and licensing process. If you choose to have a gun for protection, then you should be required to prove that you know how to handle the weapon. Those who qualify should then be allowed to carry whenever and wherever they choose: college classrooms, bars, banks, churches, etc. -- as long as you abide by the rules of having the license.Training for those who wish to own seems like a reasonable step.

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hwarangdo 5 years, 10 months ago

Are the bars gonna have swinging doors like the old saloons now? "Mr Dillon! Mr. Dillon!" ... shouts Chester. (For those of you too young to remember the tv show Gunsmoke)Glad I don't drink or go to bars, and I do own a gun but don't want a CC permit because one can't carry it most places anyway. Actually, the one place I'd like to carry a gun is walking through a mall or grocery store parking lot ... but alas, the stores won't let me take it inside ... so alot of good that would do. So I'm using the moolah I'd spend on a silly CC permit to buy more important things - like gasoline and food.

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Oracle_of_Rhode 5 years, 10 months ago

Kansas: The Land of Drunks with Guns.

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shlomoek 5 years, 10 months ago

I respect that CC permit holders are good citizens such as MandM. I dont see how it is like a seat belt because that is implying that I should carry one too. I don't have the money for a gun, and if I did I would rather buy some locally grown food or grass-fed beef.MandM so you are telling that you walk around with a loaded gun hidden somewhere on your body everyday, and that you do this to protect your family? I just don't buy that. I'm sure you love and want to protect your family, but you must love guns a lot more than me.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Shlomoek, I for one don't ever want to use my gun in self defense. But I do want to defend myself and my family if the need arises. It's just like wearing my seat belt in the car. I don't like wearing one but I do because there's a chance I could be in a car accident. The gun is like the seatbelt. It is a tool. Nothing more. It's our individual decision whether we use these tools or not.

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shlomoek 5 years, 10 months ago

What is think is so absurd about this CC thing is: Waking-up and getting ready for the day, getting your wallet, keys and cell phone, and o yea I forget my gun. And then you got to squeeze it into where ever you are hiding it. I think this is ridiculus. Why not just let everybody see it? They you could prevent any crime instead of waiting for that moment you've been jerking-off to when you actually get to use it and maybe shot someone.

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

mom, what you hear & reality may be two different things.

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mom_of_three 5 years, 10 months ago

Perhaps CCH permit holders are the most law abiding, but it's the comment that I have heard more than once that scares me. It's the "maybe I could prevent a crime" or a shooting, or "maybe just save someone's life." So maybe it's the hero attitude that scares the non-cch holders into thinking they will be in a shootout when you decide to try to save someone's life.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Here's more studies that show a decline in violent crimes. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#Right-To-Carry%20Laws Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. At the time the law was passed, critics predicted increases in violence. The founder of the National Organization of Women, Betty Friedan stated: "lethal violence, even in self defense, only engenders more violence." (13) * When the law went into effect, the Dade County Police began a program to record all arrest and non arrest incidents involving concealed carry licensees. Between September of 1987 and August of 1992, Dade County recorded 4 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. None of these crimes resulted in an injury. The record keeping program was abandoned in 1992 because there were not enough incidents to justify tracking them. (13)(15) Florida adopted a right-to-carry law in 1987. Between 1987 and 1996, these changes occurred: Florida United States homicide rate -36% -0.4% firearm homicide rate -37% +15% handgun homicide rate -41% +24% * 221,443 concealed carry licenses were issued in Florida between October of 1987 and April of 1994. During that time, Florida recorded 18 crimes committed by licensees with firearms. (15) As of 1998, nationwide, there has been 1 recorded incident in which a permit holder shot someone following a traffic accident. The permit holder was not charged, as the grand jury ruled the shooting was in self defense. (7) As of 1998, no permit holder has ever shot a police officer. There have been several cases in which a permit holder has protected an officer's life. (7)

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Funny but around noon or 1 PM this poll said that it was closed. Now it's open again. I really do have to question the LJW "agenda" now. They didn't like the results so they are opening it again?

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

I go back to my statement. No Cars at Bars. Drunk drivers leaving bars kill thousands of people every year. Yet here in Kansas, a year since CC license holders were allowed to go into bars carrying their gun. There have been no shootings and nobody has been killed. People have been taught to fear guns. Maybe they should fear cars. They kill a lot more people.

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ksmax 5 years, 10 months ago

Alcohol and Guns, DON'T mix!! All bars should be required to have the sign in the window if they sell alcohol! NOT a good Combo!

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Flap Doodle 5 years, 10 months ago

The law seems to be working as intended. Nearly a year has passed with no reported incidents.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

gun control is needed.no guns in bars please.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

Carrying-concealed-weapons (CCW) laws have nothing to do with private firearms ownership in the home. They relate solely to allowing individuals to carry their concealed guns almost anywhere in the community.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

Many people say no to that question, and for good reason. Most people who have permits to carry concealed weapons people who are not law enforcement officers have limited training and undergo less testing than even a novice police recruit.1 Yet they are led to believe that, given a dangerous situation, they will use deadly force with the same care and consideration that police officers will. Once a bullet leaves a gun, who is to say that it will stop only a criminal? The National Rifle Association (NRA) at every opportunity uses the fear of crime to promote the need for ordinary citizens to secretly pack a gun. The NRA is working to create a world where people carry guns into schools, bars, parks, courts, churches, and just about anywhere else they like.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

The carrying of concealed weapons (CCW) was prohibited or severely limited in most states prior to the mid-1990's, with law enforcement officers allowed to exercise discretion in deciding who was qualified to carry a concealed weapon. After what the NRA saw as stunning losses in 1993-94 enactment of the Brady Background Check Bill and the Federal Assault Weapons Ban the NRA needed a win, and turned to its traditional strongholds in state legislatures. By 1995, the NRA had made the radical overhaul of CCW laws at the state level its top political priority, arguing that ordinary people carrying hidden weapons would actually reduce the nation's soaring crime rates.3 The NRA's not-so-hidden agenda: increasing gun ownership in general, and increasing the sales of concealable handguns at a time when gun sales had gone flat in particular. In the first year of its new campaign the gun lobby was successful, and many states changed their laws to allow the widespread carrying of hidden handguns.4

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

M&MMore guns = more crime, or at the very least they impede reduction of the crime rate. A 1999 study by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence (formerly the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence), using FBI crime statistics, demonstrated that relaxing CCW laws may have an adverse effect on a state's crime rate.10 Between 1992 and 1998, the violent crime rate in states which kept strict CCW laws fell by an average of 30%. The violent crime rate for the states that had weak CCW laws during this same time saw their violent crime rates drop by only 15%. Nationally, violent crime declined by 25% during that same period.11 These numbers indicate that states with stricter CCW laws have found more effective ways to reduce their crime rates than simply letting more people carry hidden handguns.The gun lobby claims that only law-abiding citizens end up with CCW permits. However, an August 2000 study revealed that, from January 1996 through April 2000, the arrest rate for weapons-related offenses among Texas CCW license-holders was 66% higher than that of the general adult population of Texas.12 Concealed-carry license-holders are committing crimes, including murder, rape, assault and burglary.13 However, because in most states the gun lobby has made it difficult if not impossible for the public to determine if a shooter has a CCW license, the full story has not yet been told.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

Cool, could you please quote source so I can read this report? I have read statistics from all over the United States and haven't seen any that relate an increase in domestic violence with CCW.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

CCW , (carrying concealed weapons) does increase occurence of domestic violence.review statistics in TEXAS.

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tonythetiger 5 years, 10 months ago

There is nothing stopping me from detonating a hand grenade in a bar because there is no enforcement of it by law and there is no sign. so I think I might go ahead and do it.

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A_N_Onymous 5 years, 10 months ago

The same law that allows permit holders to carry in bars also prohibits them from carrying intoxicated. They can drink and get drunk, or carry, but not both.CCH permit holders are among the most law-abiding segment of the population. They are far less likely to cause problems for society. The scare story that resulted in this poll is just another of the many examples where the media has used scare tactics to "make news" - where none existed.Move along - there's nothing to see here...

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TopJayhawk 5 years, 10 months ago

Dear Sunshine_noise.. I'm not sure if that's sunshine, or just plain noise that you are blowing up my butt, but you really don't have a clue. Show me an instance where a CCH person shot up a school, or a bar, or anywhere else. Nothing you wrote makes any sense.

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

if AXIS is concerned about armed customers who might rob them, they may want to call the police on people who carry there illegally. those criminals didn't start carrying pistols into the place AFTER ks cch was passed....they've always carried BEFORE and will continue no matter what you write down on a little piece of paper called the law. if AXIS is only worried about the 14,000 legally armed law abiding citizens across ks carrying firearms for personal protection, they are wasting their time. between the ages of 21-25, there are but a handful of ks residents with a legal permit. i'm pretty sure AXIS goes for months stretches without even a single legal permit holder carrying a gun inside. if they were smart, they would stop worrying about the law-abiding public and start worrying about gang bangers, criminals, and people up to no good. all AXIS has to do to keep a legally carried handgun out of their business is simply ask them to leave. and they will leave. so all AXIS has to do is ask a few times and the place is clear....and AXIS can put away their burdensome weapons and continue to carry large amounts of cash in peace and relative safety, right? lolgood luck. thankfully only a few ks residents have no common sense. the majority of us do and the laws reflect it. i have a permit but i have not once taken my legal handgun into a dance club. when the first ks permit holder fires an unlawful shot (or any kind of shot for that matter), let's talk. in the meantime, can't you find something else better to talk about, like some real news rather than make-believe stuff?

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 10 months ago

The topic is getting old LJW or does someone at LJW have an agenda.

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

justfornow (Anonymous) says: Obviously some of you jokers have figured out a way to vote more then once.__________You can't vote twice. It tracks your IP address.

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justfornow 5 years, 10 months ago

Obviously some of you jokers have figured out a way to vote more then once.

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

who goes to AXIS exactly ?

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cool 5 years, 10 months ago

overheard at a potluck friday evening ---AXIS has many bouncers that are armed.the reasons stated was because of the amounts of money that their clientele carry and the take on Fri/Satevenings. they want to be sure and outnumber the armed customers ?

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Jim Phillips 5 years, 10 months ago

The answer to this is very simple. If you are afraid of a CCH holder, just go into bars that are posted with the no handgun sign. I'm quite sure it will hurt less getting shot by by a non CCH holder who illegally carried a gun into a bar.

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Jimks 5 years, 10 months ago

Hummmm.. everyone that goes into a bar, drinks ?? I have not drank any alcohol in over 40 yrs, and I go with friends into legally... drinking establishments in Kansas, because 51% of their sales are in alchol. I don't think my carrying would be an issue. The change in the law was, because in Ks ... 51% of sales in alcohol constitutes a drinking establishmen (bar) and 51% in food but serves alchol an eating establshment. So without knowing what the % of their sales were, no one had an idea if they could or couldn't , would be violating the law or not. And, some businesses complained that they did not mind. We aren't talking only "BAR" here that serve 99% of their sales in alchol. So, they clarified it. Now, all they have to do is post an approved AG sign. That is not an unreasonable demand on the businesses that don't want to allow CCH in their businesses, and to prevent people who did not intend to violate the law, but over technicalities did... because they went to eat in a place that 51% of their sales was in alcohol. Use your minds, quit buying into biased news hype.... learn the "facts". Obviously there have been no issues .... as it's been the law for a year, and there have been no issues. Ask yourself, why are newspapers putting all the hype into something.... that has never happened ??? They have an agenda... and want to drum up the hype... expecting that most of you won't look up the real facts for yourself.

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Lynn731 5 years, 10 months ago

OldVet, I agree. There is none. It's not a law abiding concealed carry holder that bothers me in the least. It's the criminals that caused the need for the concealed carry law in the first place. I never go in bars, ever, except when it was required when I was working. Anyone with any sense knows you don't take firearms where there is alcohol, you don't need a sign to tell you so, you just know it. The law wasn't recently changed either, you people were asleep at the switch when the change was made. Thank you, Lynn

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kens 5 years, 10 months ago

i have a cch permit and i carry my handgun into the bars sometimes i do, sometimes i don't, it depends. i don't drink at all. i am not your problem. there are 14,000 permit holders statewide and WE are not your problem. your problem is the stupid drunks, the criminals, the thieves, the people who don't care about you, your laws, your bar, or don't care about drinking and driving. forget about me. if you knew me, you would love to have me around (me and my handgun together) and could care less about silly nonsense that isn't ever going to happen.show me even one time where a lawful ks permit holder has shot his weapon in a bar. it has NEVER happened in well over a year. and this change in the law doesn't increase the likelihood that it will. the argument that bar owners will ensure that it never happens by not allowing guns period, isn't the answer.but if the bar owner doesn't want me to come into his/her bar with a firearm, he can post his bar properly and i promise you that i will not come in the bar. because i obey the law and there are already laws that say you cannot be intoxicated and carry your legal handgun. if he thinks that his bar is now safer than ever because i'm on the outside with my handgun instead of the inside, he should remind himself that when the legal gun owners who obey the law stay out with this handguns, the armed criminals will continue to come into his bar, ignore his stupid sign, get drunk, and threaten his patrons.now instead of having a bar with one, maybe two if you are lucky, law-abiding gun owners who obey the law, won't drink, and maybe just maybe may save someone life, you have a bar where the criminals know they'll be the only ones with the guns, they'll drink until they get drunk, and if they don't shoot someone that night, they will probably drive over someone when they get behind the wheel.you're wasting your time and money focusing on the wrong group of people. you probably don't know anyone with a permit and there are barely a handful of us across the county. most nights there is probably no one in bar at all with a legal concealed handgun, probably all week long. so how about YOU use some common sense for once and understand this in the scope for what it really is.

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thebigspoon 5 years, 10 months ago

If the dog didn't stop to take a sh** he would have caught the rabbit also... If, if if

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RobertMarble 5 years, 10 months ago

dsmith says..."if nobody carried a gun, nobody would get shot. I don't see why people think the opposite:"That's really wonderfull logic. Also, if nobody drove nobody would get into a car wreck. If, if, if, if, if.....

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

ooops sorry the last sentence I meant to say.....maybe we shouldn't allow people with cars in bars? Cars and Bars don't mix

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MandM 5 years, 10 months ago

First of all this is NOT a "recently changed law". It's been the law for over a year. There have been "0" incidents of someone with a CC license shooting anyone in a bar. The law origially said those with a CC License could not enter places that received over 50% of their revenues from alcohol sales. Could that be Applebee's? Could that be a local restaurant that sells beer or wine with their meals? Could it be a place that provides live entertainment such as a dinner theater? Heck I don't know because I don't know what their percentage of alcohol sales are. What the law does is put these businesses in the same position as any other private business in Kansas. If they don't want CC license holders in their business they can put up a "no concealedd weapons" sign up at the entrance to their business. I for one do not drink. But I do go to Applebee's, dinner theater and places that have live entertainment. Another thing to note about the signs....often refered to as gunbuster signs. They don't stopped the bad guys, gang bangers, criminals from carrying concealed weapons into a business. It does stop those who have no criminal record, law abiding citizens who have passed an FBI background check, taken gun safety and Cc law tests and a firing range test.....it stops those people from coming into the business. Finally one last thing about guns and alcohol. I agree, they don't mix. Neither does alcohol and cars. So maybe we should allow people with cars in bars?

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gl0ck0wnr 5 years, 10 months ago

Yeah... because if you are in a bar, you are certainly drunk. No one ever goes to a bar and doesn't drink. Further, there certainly aren't laws in the books already about drinking and firearms that already apply to this behavior. A CCH holder would not only be looking at losing their CCH license, but also a felony if they were drunk with a weapon... but sure... whatever, let's base our laws on outside cases rather than rational cases. Hey where are all the "wild-west style shoot outs" that I heard would occur in the streets of Lawrence between crazy, roid-raged CCH holders?

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oldvet 5 years, 10 months ago

Please cite for me ANY case in Kansas where a concealed carry permit holder was arrested and convicted for a crime using his/her concealed weapon... ANY...

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Kat Christian 5 years, 10 months ago

The trouble with this law and similar laws is that the were not passed by the use of good common sense or presence of heart. These type of laws are passed because someone had the bucks to pay for it and pay those in power to pass them. These type of laws are what should be called 'designer laws', they are not the original intentions of the American people, they were created to make those with money and power happy. When enough of our children are killed senselessly, and enough of our teens go on ramages in our schools, and when our neighborhood streets become so unsafe to take an afternoon walk then enough people will stand up and begin a movement to demand the government change these type of laws. I guess enough hasn't happen yet, or the government keeps us so busy with our lives with prices on the rise and having to work harder at keeping the 'American way' there is no time or energy left for the 'average citizen' to complain.

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KlusterfawkOFTHEUSA 5 years, 10 months ago

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Drew Alan 5 years, 10 months ago

if nobody carried a gun, nobody would get shot. I don't see why people think the opposite...

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davidsmom 5 years, 10 months ago

Loaded weapons and drunks - what a great combination.

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