Archive for Monday, June 30, 2008

Area bicyclists confused by deadly accident

The accident that claimed the life of Lt. David Dillon on Saturday occured on a stretch of road generally considered safe.

June 30, 2008

Advertisement

A car-bicycle accident, which killed a Douglas County Sheriff's deputy over the weekend, happened on a road popular among bicyclists, a local bicycle enthusiast said.

Lt. David Dillon, 44, died after being struck by a vehicle while riding his bike in the 1900 section of North 1400 Road, just one mile west of Eudora. Dillon was struck from behind by a 2003 Oldsmobile driven by Kyle Van Meter, a 20-year-old Eudora man, the Kansas Highway Patrol said. The accident happened just before 8 a.m. Saturday.

Dan Hughes, Sunflower Outdoor & Bike Shop owner, said many cyclists frequently travel the rural county road between Lawrence and Eudora.

"It's a straight stretch of road, there's no hills on it, there's no curves," said Hughes, who also uses the road often. "It would seem to me to be a pretty safe road to ride on."

KHP investigators aren't aware of any obstructions that caused the accident, said Trooper Edna Buttler. She said troopers don't believe excessive speed, drugs or alcohol were factors in the crash.

Officers are awaiting toxicology reports and phone records before completing their investigation, and more information about the circumstances of the accident could be available next week, Buttler said.

The fatal accident has hit the local bicycle community hard, said Hughes and Paul Corcoran, Lawrence Bicycle Club secretary.

"We feel like it was another one of us that was taken down," Corcoran said.

"It's just a sobering reminder that cars are heavy and big, and generally when a car and a bicyclist interact, the cyclist is going to be the loser, no matter what the situation is," Hughes said.

While bicycle enthusiasts have a hard time understanding how an accident could happen where it did, they said it has given area bicyclists another reason to be careful on the road. They're also hopeful motorists will do the same.

Funeral services for Dillon, a 25-year veteran of the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, will be at 10 a.m. Wednesday at Grace Evangelical Presbyterian Church in Lawrence. Dillon was jail operations deputy for the Sheriff's Office.

Comments

gonzo 7 years, 2 months ago

Well, I feel terrible about what happened to Lt. Dillon. As a bike rider (and a car driver), I hope at least a few people take a minute to think about the general safety of both themselves and those on the road around them (whether there "legally" or not). At the end of the day, there are a lot more important things than who the road "belongs to" and who it doesn't.And, for what it's worth, our modern, paved roadway system was NOT designed purely for automobiles, bicycles, buggies, cell-phone users or anyone else. But it WAS, in fact, developed primarily by the efforts of our friends (and/or road hazards) who wanted better roads to ride their bikes on. To quote ol' Horatio "Good Roads" Earle (I am not making this up, I swear), "I often hear now-a-days, the automobile instigated good roads; that the automobile is the parent of good roads. Well, the truth is, the bicycle is the father of the good roads movement in this country." The Good Roads Movement occurred in the United States between 1880 and 1916. The League of American Wheelmen, a prominent advocacy group for the improvement of roads and highways in the United States long before the invention of the automobile, fought for the privilege of building bicycle paths along the side of public highways, and for equal privileges with horse-drawn vehicles, among other things. As a direct result, our early system of shoddy, rutted, mudhole-ridden roads were graded, smoothed, and paved for all users, AND the bicyclist was accorded equal rights with other users of highways and streets.Please, everybody, share the road.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Common sense Idaho laws on bicycles and intersections:ID St § 49-720. Stopping--Turn and stop signals(1) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping.(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a steady red traffic control light shall stop before entering the intersection and shall yield to all other traffic. Once the person has yielded, he may proceed through the steady red light with caution. Provided however, that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn. A left-hand turn onto a one-way highway may be made on a red light after stopping and yielding to other traffic.(3) A person riding a bicycle shall comply with the provisions of section 49-643, Idaho Code.(4) A signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given during not less than the last one hundred (100) feet traveled by the bicycle before turning, provided that a signal by hand and arm need not be given if the hand is needed in the control or operation of the bicycle.

AvidCyclist 7 years, 2 months ago

"Marion (Marion Lynn) says: To show you just how smart bicyclists really are, here are some stats from "helmets.org": The "typical" bicyclist killed on our roads is a sober male over 16 not wearing a helmet riding on a major road between intersections in an urban area hit by a car. Helmet use in the US varies......Overall, our best wild guess is probably no more than 25 per cent. "IMO the poster is inferring cyclists aren't too smart, so I am assuming as the poster's opinion is heavily biased towards cars being on the roads, and cyclists not, I'll assume the inference is that drivers are smart.I'll agree, many "cyclists" don't wear helmets. Now, that brings up another question -- how is a "cyclist" defined. I ride several thousand miles a year (always with a helmet), and consider myself a cyclist. The "typical cyclist" description from the prior post - one riding in an urban area, maybe (likely ? most often ?) just to get from point a to point b, not someone in it for the recreation / sport), doesn't seem to be what is being attacked here, rather serious "cyclists" such as myself, who go out on the roads in the country to do most of their riding, solo, or on group rides. ALL of the "cyclists" I ride with wear helmets, It has been many years since I went on any group ride with anyone without a helmet (I have ridden 40,000 miles, close to 20 years, many of those miles on group rides from a few riders, to over 10,000 riders). All the Johnson County Bike Club rides require you to ride with a helmet. It is a shame that many cyclists, or just say bicycle riders, don't wear a helmet, and get injured. That is indeed a tragedy.Now, how about looking at seatbelt usage -- which I think everyone will agree saves lives as well, and in most all cars are provided, all the driver has to do is buckle up, they don't have to go out and buy anything. From http://www.preventioninstitute.org/traffic_seatbelt.html, I quote:"For a nation arguably more dependent than any other on the car, the U.S. has an occupant safety record that leaves significant room for improvement. Despite recent achievements, the U.S. fares worse in seatbelt use and traffic fatality rates when compared to other industrialized nations, including Great Britain, Germany, Sweden, Australia, and Canada. Seatbelt usage exceeds 90% in several of these countries, while the U.S. seatbelt use rate is currently 75%, an all-time high."Only 75% of drivers in this country use a proven life-saving device, that is provided for them whenever they get behind the wheel for no charge. Drivers don't have to go out and buy one, remember to bring it along, nothing, they just have to buckle up, but one in 4 don't. How smart is that ?While I won't dispute that many casual riders don't wear helmets, any / all serious "cyclists" I know, and see out on the roads, do.

storm 7 years, 2 months ago

It only makes sense for motorists to signal their intentions when they decide to turn, and since they don't they should be banned from roads.

Flap Doodle 7 years, 2 months ago

I think Nick's crusade of the day has been identified.

SaltyBoatr 7 years, 2 months ago

Questioning that some other bicyclists have been seen to break laws is irrelevant to the central issue here: David Dillon (who by all indications was legally) riding his bicycle on a road, and he was run down and killed by a motorist. There is no excuse for running down and killing a bicyclist like that.Sweeping accusations of all bicyclists as stereotypical law breakers, serves to diminish and divert the focus from this central tragedy, the sad death of David .Dillon.

repaste 7 years, 2 months ago

There is a bike fee for bikes, pay it, increase it thats great. 10,000 + miles in Lawrence on a bike and sidewalks are for walkers - they are veryuneven, many very bad sections, cutouts that send you right towards the street, every intersection is an adventure. My young kids and I ride sidewalks - it is very scarey and slow. I am not sure they much safer at all for even little kids. The bike paths are recreational - you have to get to them, they dont go anywhere. Last 20 years I see more rude riders, taking up whole lane - maybe they have some merit. #1 solution I believe is education, change mindset of drivers, les heelbent, cell phone pedal to the metal. Bikes have allways been, and will be a bigger and bigger part of our city. Wake up drivers, and riders. Be nice to every car that does not hit you.

David Roberts 7 years, 2 months ago

Just my two cents here.KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says:"If they were biking for transportation, that would be one thing. But since they are doing this for recreation, I don't think they have as good of an argument for unnecessarily congesting rights-of-way and creating hazards for not only themselves but drivers who may swerve to avoid them."Please don't make such broad assumptions, KSA. I commuted exclusively by bike for about two years a decade or so ago (in Lawrence). It was--in fact--my mode of transport. When I could be choosy about a route, I took the safest route possible. Sometimes, however, I had to take an inconvenient route (both for myself and motorists) in order to get where I needed to be. I can't speak for other cyclists, but I never ride two or three wide; I always stop at stop signs and stop lights; I always signal my turns; I always wear a helmet; and I always use bright lights when riding at night.As for the tax burden, few public road users do not pay for the roads. I too, buy gas, pay property tax, personal income tax, tag fees, etc. I am a driver and a cyclist. I know how inconvenient it is to sit behind a cyclist, or even to watch a cyclist break the rules, but I understand that I have a greater--not lesser--responsibility (a responsibility that is the cost of using a two ton vehicle) to protect cyclists and pedestrians.Another issue that I've not seen addressed is the environmental costs of driving a gas-powered motor vehicle. Personally, I believe that if we were to factor that into the equation, we might come to the conclusion that--as a matter of public policy--that the interests of drivers of gasoline-based vehicles should defer to the interests of cyclists and pedestrians (like--for example--rules requiring smokers to go outside).I'll end with an experience that I had a few years back. I was riding East on 23rd street just past Louisiana (the sidewalks--at that time--were uneven and narrow). I was inches from the curb. A driver aggressively accelerated past me, nearly clipping my handle bar. The driver pulled right in front of me and slammed on his brakes (forcing me to do the same). He flipped me off and told me to get of the road. For a moment, I truly felt like I had escaped with my life.Now I wasn't doing anything wrong. I just needed to get from West to East Lawrence (lots of of great choices here: 31st, 23rd, 19th, 9th, 6th). I'm sure he was trying to do the same. But he didn't have to abuse me in order to get there.I memorized his plate and called the police when I returned home. As the officer was taking my statement, she indicated that there wasn't much that she could do. I could press charges, of course; but she added "it might be better if you just stayed off of the major streets in Lawrence".Lawrence-a bicycle friendly community.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

And girls who get raped asked for it by being too "sexy," right Shardwurm.

adriennerm 7 years, 2 months ago

As much as I would like to throw an insult back at you Baille..I won't. It's very sad that you couldn't answer a simple question. I hope you live a happy life and I wish you contiuned success insulting people you don't know anything about.

Kontum1972 7 years, 2 months ago

the irony of this story.....us local schmucks get nailed and nothing is done to rectify the forseen problem..but a police officer gets nailed and right away something is going to be done......you know i am sorry this man died because someone was probably multi-tasking behind the wheel...i know whats it like to be injured on a bike it happened to me a few years ago on kasold down by hy-vee..its the same old BS....plz blow some more smoke.....traffice lights, stop signs, school crossing zones mean nothing to the drivers of today..we are all just meat puppets to the person behind the wheel..if u kill someone while u are driving you should be put away for a few years and u can never own a car for the rest of your life....once u are released for jail....your done.!

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

"And yes, I can say that, because if either of you were, you would not legally be able to come on this board and spout your mouths off about it."Ah, yes. The last vestige of those who can't argue the merits: attempt to discredit those making the arguments.Pray tell, lsense, tell me why - if I were a licensed and practicing attorney - I could not discuss the general state of the law in Kansas. I have not commented on the merits of any pending case. I have said quite clearly I have no idea what happened in this tragic accident. I have offered no one legal advice and have not solicited any clients.As a matter of fact out of the people who have sent me private messages - either thanking me or castigating me - I have never exposed my identity or even discussed anything personal about me that is not years and years past. So why, lsense, could I not post what I have posted if I were an attorney or had some sort of specialized education in the law?Tell me this, O Wise One, is anything I have said wrong? Are the laws I have cited not accurate and applicable? Is the one case citation not on point? Have my arguments failed on their merits? If so, please tell me. I would either like to show you wrong or learn something. Either way is fine.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

I agree, Informed. I try to be very conscientious and law-abiding whether I'm on a bike or in a car. No one is more annoyed than I am when I'm confronted by an idiot on a bicycle. Not only because they represent a danger to themselves and others, but because their behavior is used as a justification for the bigoted attitudes and dangerous behavior of many motorists, which are well-represented on this forum.

confused_one 7 years, 2 months ago

How very sad for ALL involved.I ride my bike occasionally(on the bike paths only)but I can not understand why anyone would want to ride on HWY 40....bike riders scare me to death on this road, hills, hills and more hills. I can't tell you how many times I've crested a hill @ 55 mph only to see 4, 5, 6 or more riders, luckily I always been able to slow down but I've had a few close calls, not to mention allmost being rear ended by the cars following me. I can't even begin to think how I would handle it if I hit an animal driving not to mention another person.

David Roberts 7 years, 2 months ago

Interesting legal analysis SaltyBoatr. And because this seems surprising, It really illustrates how much of an automobile society we've really become.benmuggn (Anonymous) says: "They make places for cyclist to go where there is no traffic maybe they should ride where thier areas are."They have made places for cyclists, benmuggn. The streets of our fair town were created for transportation--appearing in all it's variety: bus, motorcycle, bicycle, car. Don't assume that roadways were only created for your car. Further, what if those streets where there is no traffic (recreational paths?) don't pass by my doctor's office, or the grocery store, or the location of my job. What then?

borrowed_LPs 7 years, 2 months ago

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!BE AFRAID!Be so constantly fearful that you break laws by riding on the sidewalk. (or stop riding)Be so shameful that you ride in sandy potholed gutters.Also. Cars need to stop breaking the law by being nice to cyclists. It is confusing when I stop at a stop sign and you then also stop, allowing me to pass. While this is very kind, it creates a confusing double-standard in which many cyclists expect to be treated this way all the time and stop paying attention to signage all together.the laws apply to everyone.follow them bravely.

Dixie Jones 7 years, 2 months ago

verity (Anonymous) says: This is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the family, friends, and sheriff's department.Also to the driver of the car. Whatever the cause, he will live with this the rest of his life and I'm sure he wishes he could have a do over......Agreed... as for bikes on highways as long as they abide by the rules its ok but come one how many times have you came upon a bike who thinks they own the road and do not have rules of the road? serioulsy .....

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

gphawk89--When attempting to draw some sort of analogy, rule #1 is to find roughly comparable examples. You didn't.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Throw away, Adrienne. I wouldn't be such a jackass if I couldn't take a couple of stomach kicks myself. But maybe I presume too much. Maybe your questions really were sincere. If so, I apologize.In any case, when the cyclists is riding on the street they must obey all the same traffic laws as a motor vehicle except for those that pertain specifically to bicycles. When a cyclists is riding on the sidewalks they must act like a pedestrian. (Kendra v. Manda, 38 Kan.App.2d 864 (2008).) When a cyclists is riding in an exclusive bike lane, they must act like a vehicle. (Different case. Don't have time to find it.)If you scan back over the hundred-plus posts, you will find references to both the state statutes and the Lawrence City Code. These references will answer all your questions although you will have to dig a bit. There is also a bicycle, car, pedestrian tip page hosted by the City of Lawrence; however, some of the information provided contradicts the City Code.Kansas Statutes: http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-legisportal/index.doLawrence City Code: http://www.lawrenceks.org/city_codeFor People That Want to Do More: http://www.lawrenceks.org/boards#bicycle

Wendy magillicutty 7 years, 2 months ago

The problem is all these dang people everywhere! what are you people thinking all driving and walking and biking in MY path!? I wish everybody could just be somewhere else when I need to travel from point A to point B. yeah, I mean unless I want a job or food or some city service or someone to talk to, just get outta my way, wouldya?Not to mention, do any of you bicyclist haters have children? Where would you like those pesky varmints to ride? Would that be business or pleasure to drive them everywhere they need to go, like a job or school or some annoying past-time? Or would you prefer they not go anywhere til they're legal to drive the roadways. If so, I'll be sure and drop off about 350 bored young teenagers on your doorstep about the 2nd week of May and pick em up in August, thanks.

Undrtkn 7 years, 2 months ago

I have lived here for a few yrs now, and there are lots of bike riders that are VERY irresponsible, I have been a lot closer than I like to some that FLY by me on Mass & Cut through funeral processions. We must all remember to make everyone happy, we must all share the roads. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends of Mr. Dillon.

gmemusic 7 years, 2 months ago

I was participating in an organized ride a couple years ago and while riding a short section on 68 Highway a large semi buzzed me at 65mph, giving me hardly any room, even though the other lane was empty. I was riding on the shoulder, almost in the glass and rocks and debris. Was I unsafe on that road? No. The only thing that made it unsafe for me was the lack of respect and space given to me by the driver of the truck. If I had run out of gas and been walking to a gas station, or on the side of the road fixing a flat tire, whatever, it would have been the same situation. The only thing that makes riding on a road with a speed limit over 35mph unsafe are the motorists who are supposed to share it but don't think that bicycles belong on it. We all know what roads cyclists ride on, we all know to expect them to be out riding on a sunny day, so we shouldn't be surprised when there's one there in front of us. Remember that driving a motor vehicle is a privelege, not a right, it is not owed to you or to me, we earn it by driving responsibly and respectfully on the roads. I remember being taught in driver's ed to drive DEFENSIVELY, seems many these days drive OFFENSIVELY instead, and consider their vehicles to be 2000lb ramming machines for anything and anyone that gets in their way. "Watch out Team Spandex!" Don't worry, I'm watching out for you, and all I ask is that you watch out for me.

mudman1956 7 years, 2 months ago

I wish all you people would shut up and let this gentlemen rest in peace.

adriennerm 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't have any problems sharing the road with anyone. I just need to know the basics here.

acg 7 years, 2 months ago

What's to be confused about? The guy was riding his bike on the road, the kid came along and for whatever reason (glare in the eyes, eyes off the road for two seconds, etc.) he hit the guy and killed him. It's sad and I feel awful for both families involved. And now, this kid has to live with the guilt, just like the family of the officer has to live with his death. What's to gain from talking smack on bicyclists or fast drivers? We're all on the same rock, folks. Let's learn to be a little nicer to one another, and maybe a little more understanding. ??

SaltyBoatr 7 years, 2 months ago

In Kansas, bicyclists are required to stop at red lights and at stop signs per the vehicle code. Period. At the same time, motorists are required to share the road with bicycles, even if it means slowing down instead of making unsafe buzz passes.That said, it is a shame, (and it reveals a bias towards motor vehicles) that the stop light and stop sign laws are written around the needs of motorists, and with disregard to the needs of bicyclists. Specifically, it is a shame that the laws disregard the need of a bicyclist to conserve momentum. I wish Kansas had a law like they have in Idaho, where for bicyclists stop lights are equivalant to stop signs, and stop signs equivalent to yield signs. There is a infrastructure bias in Kansas favoring motor vehicles at the expense of bicyclists. Bicyclists have equal rights, but you don't see equality in Kansas. The character of bicycling is different than the character of motoring, why should the laws be written favoring one and not the other? The law §8-1587 says bicycles have equality, the the implementation of the laws and infrastructure in Kansas are FAR from equal.

Shardwurm 7 years, 2 months ago

I'm very sorry to the family for this tragedy. What I'm about to post has nothing to do with this current situation as I have no idea what the facts behind the case are.I've driven the county roads in this area for over a decade and from my observation many bicyclists are arrogant, disrespectful, disobedient to traffic laws, and generally a nuisance. I'm frankly surprised that more of them have not been hit and killed or seriously injured. Not all cyclists are this way...but one can see from the posts above that the mentality of 'we have a right to the road' is pervasive. It's like I used to tell my kids: "Pedestrians have the right-of-way...I'll make sure they put that on your tombstone."

sherbert 7 years, 2 months ago

What if the biker didn't realize the car was coming up behind him and swerved a bit towards the center, right into the path of the car? You don't know what happened, and it is a tragedy for the car driver as well as the biker. Just because the biker was at the disadvantage, and was killed, doesn't mean the car driver was at total fault.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

Anyone who rides a bike much can tell you that that is precisely what happens, on all too regular a basis, Isense. Twenty years ago or so, I was run off the very road on which this accident happened. There was no oncoming traffic, visibility was perfect, and I was riding as close to the edge as possible. There is no other description for what happened to me other than attempted murder.

gphawk89 7 years, 2 months ago

"Cyclists can legally ride two abreast. Cyclist have as much right to a road as any other vehicle."Yes, it's legal to ride two abreast. It's also legal to step into the street on a crosswalk directly in front of a speeding dump truck. And there's probably no law on the books about shooting yourself in the head with a nail gun. But is it SAFE to do such things? Come on, cyclists, quit flaunting your "rights" and use a little common sense.

adriennerm 7 years, 2 months ago

Can someone please answer this for me. I spent majority of my life in the inter-city Chicago. I'm not aware of the cyclist laws. Chicago is based on public transportation. Well I understand I can't past a cyclist with in 3 feet. Make right turns in front of them..etc. However since I've been here I've had the following experiences:1. a lady on a bike made a left turn in front of me. I was in the left turning lane on New Hamspire turning east towards Boarders. She was in the right lane. I thougth she was going straight..well the light changed. I made my left and she was right beside me. I almost hit her. I thought she was suppose to be to the left or behind me to make that turn. 2. I was at a 4 way stop. Bike rode right threw didn't stop. 3. Bike ran a red light while I was stopped.4. I was on Locust st. 4 cyclist were riding in a row. I couldn't past. The 18-wheeler behind me started honking and flashing his lights. I just give the cyclist room and if I can pass I do. If I can't I wait. I'm not in a big rush...but I thought they couldn't run lights and stop signs. Or block the road...please advise.

Sigmund 7 years, 2 months ago

SaltyBoatr (Anonymous) says: "bicyclists have a greater constitutional guarantee to the road that motor vehicles operators. (Because motor vehicle licenses are revocable, but the right of locomotion is not revocable, an alternative form of locomotion must remain.)"That should be a great comfort when I am killed to death by a speeding intoxicated college student talking on her cell phone and not noticing the narrower lanes on 19th Street that the "Lawrence Traffic Safety Commission" painted in the gutter as a "traffic calming device." Perhaps the attorney for my estate or the DA will both note my contribution to calming Lawrence traffic and your excellent legal point when prosecuting for vehicular homicide and wrongful death.

Shardwurm 7 years, 2 months ago

"It's not an attitude- it's a fact of law"Sweet! That's a great example of what I tell my children. It will look great on your tombstone!You don't get it do you? 2.5 tons of steel vs. 220 lbs of bicycle and flesh = YOU LOSE...whether it's a 'fact of law' or not. I have a 'right' to leave my house unlocked, put signs all over the place saying that we're out of town, let the papers and mail to build up, and put a big stack of money in the middle of my livingroom floor. When I come back in two weeks if my house has been stripped clean then should I cry foul?But that's fine...you're going to do as you please anyway. I'm saying whether you like it or not you're going to have to defer to the motorist because it's not worth you life to be 'right'. Sorry. That's the way it is."the bigoted attitudes..." LOL!!!! Bigoted? I didn't know cyclists were a race! That says a lot.

benmuggn 7 years, 2 months ago

I am sorry for the famoily and their lose, but to many cyclist dont follow the road rules and that angers alot of people driving when they 3 and 4 wide on a busy hiway. They make places for cyclist to go where there is no traffic maybe they should ride where thier areas are. It get frustrating when alot dont obey traffic laws but want people to respect them on the road when they think they dont have to obey the traffic laws.

boltzmann 7 years, 2 months ago

No Marion, In my opinion motorists who are unable or unwilling to share the road with bicyclists should not be allowed on the road. Same for bicyclists who are not able to follow the law.Bicycles have as much a right to be on the road as you. Get over it.

storm 7 years, 2 months ago

Some motorists think buggies, tractors and bicyclists should go as fast as them even though those other vehicles have a right to the roadway. Sigh. A tragedy. No wonder bicylists ride more than two abreast - it's safer!

fu7il3 7 years, 2 months ago

Most of the bicyclists I have seen, in all honesty, would fail the "yield" distinction, even if it was there. I've stopped at stop signs before and had bicycles right past me on the right and run the stop sign disregarding all other traffic at the intersection.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

If the chickensh*ts weren't driving away as fast as possible, I'd do exactly that, Isense.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

"Not all cyclists are this way:but one can see from the posts above that the mentality of 'we have a right to the road' is pervasive."It's not an attitude-- it's a fact of law.

SaltyBoatr 7 years, 2 months ago

It is sad that it takes such a horrible tragedy like this to focus our conversation on this topic. It is beyond outrageous to see the outpouring of hate and bigotry from motorists aimed at bicyclists on this occasion.Simple fact: Under Kansas law §8-1587 and §8-1590(a)(3), on that road and on virtually all standard width roads in Kansas, at all times, all bicyclists have a full legal right to drive their bicycle taking a full vehicle lane. If you want to learn more I recommend doing some research. One good book is "Bicycling & the Law" by Bob Mionske, ISBN 1-931382-99-9There is no excuse what-so-ever for a motor vehicle driver to hit and kill a bicyclist from behind.

cds 7 years, 2 months ago

rammy (Anonymous) says: "I do object to the "bike club" being on the road at the same time. They seem to have problems with following the rules. Two dozen bikes blowing through a stop sign is a hazard."Agreed!!I will not stop in the middle of the highway for one of these groups again.Ya hear me Team Spandex ?_As much as the bike club annoyes me as well when they do this, don't drop the soap is the only piece of advice I can give you when you get mad and take a few of them out to prove your point._KS (Anonymous) says: The road was designed and built for auto traffic, back when people didn't ride bikes like they do today. That should make some bikers mad.__Sorry, bike riding predates autos by a good 100 years and paved roads by even longer than that.

Sigmund 7 years, 2 months ago

SaltyBoatr (Anonymous) says: "That said, it is a shame, (and it reveals a bias towards motor vehicles) that the stop light and stop sign laws are written around the needs of motorists, and with disregard to the needs of bicyclists. Specifically, it is a shame that the laws disregard the need of a bicyclist to conserve momentum."Bicycles have no special need to conserve momentum anymore than do cars. One saves peddling the other saves gas, but neither need to conserve it any more than the other. Any perceived bias may only reflects the reality that there are far more people in far more cars than bicycles.

gphawk89 7 years, 2 months ago

"Specifically, it is a shame that the laws disregard the need of a bicyclist to conserve momentum."Why does a cyclist need to conserve momentum? Shouldn't the same thing be said about motorists for the sake of fuel savings? Yes, it's tempting to run stop signs and red lights on a bike, but if you're riding for a workout you probably actually get a bit more exercise by coming to a stop and then accelerating again.

gccs14r 7 years, 2 months ago

Speed limits are generally maximums, not minimums. Where a minimum speed is required for legal travel, signs are posted. Also, just because pedestrians, bicycles, motor-driven cycles, and horses are prohibited on the Interstate system in Kansas, does not mean those means of conveyance are prohibited everywhere. Specifically, Arizona has no such restrictions, at least not on I-19. Watch where you're going and do try to not run over things with your cage. The life you save may be your child's.

hootman31 7 years, 2 months ago

According to a report on the channel 5 news (so unconfirmed), the KHP was called in to investigate. OLD-10 was still closed shortly before noon on Saturday, due to on going investigation. (FACT)1900 Block would be about 1/2 way between river and Peach Orchard RD. Guessing a mile from both.Just where the road has an ever so slight curve (a bow) to the south, which would obscure anything on the right shoulder. (i.e it ain't straight), and (i.e. if there was a car sitting on the shoulder, and you where going 55 MPH, you may not see the car until after you pass it, due to it blending in to the backdrop of trees/barn/driveway.The Sheriff's dept runs radar on this road, and you don't see them until you get right up on them, cuz every thing blends into the landscape, as the road is elevated. (i.e. you have no real depth perception on this road and this is reinforced by the previous comments that it is straight and flat, which it is far from!).Very, Very dangerous road, which I never pass on even if behind someone doing 45, and that is in an Escalade!

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Richard Heckler 7 years, 2 months ago

Cyclists can legally ride two abreast. Cyclist have as much right to a road as any other vehicle. Does a car or truck driver own the road anymore than a cyclists?Patience is all that is required. Why not wait until it is safe to pass? If a combine,tractor,slow moving car or whatever were on the road wouldn't drivers have to wait for an opportunity to pass safely? Is waiting a short period of time really that big a deal?Getting hit from behind at 8AM with no obstruction of view says some sort of negligence was involved. Most road cyclists are dressed rather colorful that I see.

maddog1960 7 years, 2 months ago

I feel sorry for both, the officer killed and the driver of the vehicle. If I remember right the wind was terrible that morning. I ride a motorcycle and I can't tell you the number of times the wind has forced us into another lane. Lets none of us be so judgmental until we know the full story. I can't imagine how hard it would be to live with the fact that I killed someone when something like the wind could be a factor. Let's keep both families in our thoughts. Thank you

missprissy0129 7 years, 2 months ago

My thoughts and prayers go out to the Dillon family and friends!

JerryStubbs 7 years, 2 months ago

I remember some bicyclist told me that bicycles have certain legal rights due to the fact that they have been around longer than cars. So I don't know about default minimum speeds, there might be certain waivers, too. Still there are certainly tickets for offences like obstructing traffic, if that is in fact the case.

nurse 7 years, 2 months ago

My deepest sympathy goes out to the family of Sgt. Dillon. I watch bicyclists ride a very dangerous stretch of road to Baldwin City. Many times these cyclists "group up" and do not ride in single file. It is aggravating as they seem to feel that they do not have to abide by the rules of the road. I don't always feel like the motorists are to blame. We need to all heed the rules and act like responsible adults whether we are driving a car or riding a bike.

Ragingbear 7 years, 2 months ago

I am sure that the consensus among bicyclist that they own the road, and are not bound by any limits, restrictions, instructions or what-have-you didn't have any thing to do with it.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

No they don't. There is nothing inherently dangerous in a bicycle or a buggy using the road. On the other hand there is something inherently dangerous about failing to keep a careful lookout when driving a 2000 lbs hunk of metal at 55 mph or failing to keep that piece of metal under safe control.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

"If your are riding two abreast, the person on the left isn't riding as close as practicable.Sure they are, but no one said our legislators write well. In any case, absent a city code, the hypothetical riders are lawful in riding two abreast because they aren't riding more than two abreast and they are as close to the right as practicable because they left rider can't occupy the space taken by the right rider.In essence, one can ride two abreast both riders need to stay as far to the right as is reasonably safe.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

"As I've already explained, there is a minimum speed limit on highways."Unless such a minimum speed is posted pursuant to statute, no there is not. You can explain how clouds are made of ice cream, but that don't make it so.

waddles4 7 years, 2 months ago

IT IS legal for cyclists to ride 2 abreast but it is also legal for motorists to drive 55 mph on that road. However, if there are hazardous road conditions you wouldnt drive 55 mph you would adjust your speed accordingly. I think cyclists should do the same. If they are heading into the sun they should realize being motorists themselves that there is a possibility of glare on the motorists and they should adjust by riding further to the side of the road or in a single line. This is a safety issue. I also agree that the county, knowing that this road is heavily used for cyclists, could install a bike lane. This is a heavily traveled road for both motorists and cyclists.

JerryStubbs 7 years, 2 months ago

These two sections (see below) seem to conflict. If your are riding two abreast, the person on the left isn't riding as close as practiable. Of course it doens't specifically say you can ride two abreast, just that you can't ride more than two abreast. Did a lawyer write this code?-----------------------------------a) Every person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable(c) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Jerry, that ticket would come for violating this traffic law:"No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law."Note the law specifically, explicitly applies to motor vehicles, which are defined earlier in the section.

J Good Good 7 years, 2 months ago

So even if the guy was a cop, riding alone on a flat straight road, the anti bike folks start ranting. Interesting to me that simply riding a bike means that he had it comin' to some folks.

Chris Beilman 7 years, 2 months ago

The road between Lawernce and Eudora is not really a safe place for bikes, even though it is used heavily among the local bike clubs. Looking at the footage ... http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jun... ..you can see how the road drops off on both sides of the pavement. The speed limit is 55 mph. Throw in a mix of farm machinery and sooner or later something bad is going to happen. I can only hope that the county will consider upgrading this road when it is due for maintanance. It wouldn't hurt to put a little extra asphalt on the other side of the the white line and give bikes a safe place to ride .. R.I.P. Sgt. Dillion

Richard Heckler 7 years, 2 months ago

"Bicycles don't normally go 35 mph."Neither do combines,tractors,road graders or some senior citizens behind the wheel.

bearded_gnome 7 years, 2 months ago

think he's lt. Dillan. God bless his family and friends, and the folks at Grace EPC. this is truly a tragedy. ***of course you can bring out the anecdotes of bikers riding dangerously, has nothing to do with this story. they are not relevant to this. I'm sure this Sheriff's lt. knew well the laws and respected them. how can the troopers not suspect alcohol or drugs, but there are not the tox findings yet...did somebody do a field sobriety test of the driver, and he passed? if that's the case, then what explains his hitting the man on the bike?

average 7 years, 2 months ago

7:45 AM, the sun is due East. That's all there is to it. It could happen to any of us, but take the lesson.If you've got glare in your windshield... slow down. Please. Don't drive beyond your headlights at night, don't drive beyond your field of vision in the day.If you don't want to worry about cyclists, joggers, school buses, farm machinery, turning traffic, etc, there is a freeway less than half a mile away.

wysiwyg69 7 years, 2 months ago

merrill,,,,, if the bikers have the same right to the roads as motor vehicles then show me just one of them that pays property taxes and tag fees on their bikes !

misslawrence 7 years, 2 months ago

My heart goes out to the entire Dillon Family...they are a true meaning of "family"...I am still in disbelief that this tragedy has occurred...Lt. Dillon was a very caring,sympathetic and prosperous man, no matter what you did....he never held that against you...I know he will be definitely,greatly missed...My prayers to all.......was the driver taken into questioning or anything? I just don't see how this could happen 8am on sunday morning....and this is as far as it went.

monkeyspunk 7 years, 2 months ago

Isense"And I've yet to see these types riding anywhere near as far right as they can go on the roads described."Oh my, you are so full of bullshiite that I can smell you from here.Also, I like how Baille completely trashed your argument, yet you still blather on with your nonsense.You are going to feel really bad if what I have heard happened in this incident comes to light. There is a reason they are looking into his phone (also TEXTING) records.Oh and by the way, I drive every morning at 7:45. The sun is plenty up in the sky by that time to allow very good visibility.

Chris Beilman 7 years, 2 months ago

Just to clarify the glare of the sun issue ..According to a Kansas Highway Patrol accident report, Dillon was riding west on the road when a 20-year-old Eudora man driving a 2003 Oldsmobile struck him from behind, causing Dillon to fall into the north ditch of the road...The sun was behind them both .. no issues with visibility.nuff said ...

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

KSA 8-1561(a) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.(b) Whenever the secretary of transportation or local authorities within their respective jurisdictions determine on the basis of an engineering and traffic investigation that slow speeds on any highway or part of a highway impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the secretary or any such local authority may determine and declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive a vehicle except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law and that limit shall be effective when posted upon appropriate fixed or variable signs.

boltzmann 7 years, 2 months ago

wysiwyg69 (Anonymous) says:"merrill,,,,, if the bikers have the same right to the roads as motor vehicles then show me just one of them that pays property taxes and tag fees on their bikes !"It is this type of ignorant statement that really makes me angry. The roads are not financed completely by property taxes, tag fees and gas taxes, a considerable amount of money from income taxes, sales taxes and residential property taxes, which are paid certainly by a large number of bike owners. Also, most adult bicycle owners do own a car and pay property taxes and reg fees on those as well. Again the level of hostility on this board and in this town towards bicyclists is downright pathological and quite pathetic. Someone was killed on a public road, riding in a legal manner by someone who at best wasn't paying attention to the road and all that many people on this board can do is blame the victim here. How do you people live with yourselves?

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

"On highways there is a minimum speed limit. There is also an implicit minimum in town."No there's not. "I've seen cyclists ride 3+ abreast many times."Then they are in violation of the state traffic ordinances.By the way, I am pretty sure the municipal ordinance has a rule against riding two abreast. Too busy at the moment to confirm."'I'm not familiar with this particular stretch of road, but I'm assuming that there was not a shoulder,..."That's true - or at least not much of one."...or that the cyclist was not riding in the shoulder."Why would they? A nice well-maintained shoulder looks like a nice bike lane, but a road bike and a crappy shoulder makes for a quick blow-out and/or accident. By law, a cyclist is supposed to ride as far to the right (or left in certain circumstances) of the driving lane as is reasonably safe - not on the shoulder.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

K.S.A. 8-1590. Riding on bicycles or mopeds; riding on roadways and bicycle paths.(a) Every person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, except under any of the following situations when: (1) Overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction; (2) preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or (3) reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving bicycles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or narrow width lanes that make it unsafe to continue along the right-hand edge of the roadway.(b) Any person operating a bicycle or a moped upon a one-way highway with two or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near to the left side of the roadway as practicable.(c) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast, except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles.(d) Wherever a usable path for bicycles has been provided adjacent to a roadway, bicycle riders shall use such path and shall not use the roadway. (This has been interpreted by case law to mean a path exclusively for bikes - otherwise a cyclist can choose to ride on teh sidewalk or the road.)(e) For purposes of this section, "narrow width lane" means a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Really? The gentleman in question was a cyclist and his judgment is being called into question by some. This seems like the perfect opportunity to not only defend his judgment but also to discuss the laws that make up the rules of the road, safe cycling practices, and the need for all users of our public road system to be aware and considerate of each other at all times.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

"merrill,,,,, if the bikers have the same right to the roads as motor vehicles then show me just one of them that pays property taxes and tag fees on their bikes !"Winner of the June 30, 2008, Red Herring Award.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

There is no "implicit minimum speed limit." There is a law about driving too slow, but there is no minimum limit set. It changes with the circumstances. For instance, if I was driving 5 mph down Kasold in a fog then the officer would have no business to cite me.

supercowbellninja 7 years, 2 months ago

wtf kind of argument is Isense making? Because a bike can't reasonably go 35 mph or faster then they should get off the roads?And ride where?Share the road, show some patience and let he who is without driving sins cast the first stone. I'd bet that Isense does not have a perfect driving record, just like the rest of us. We should all be aware of other bicycles on the road this time of year, even moreso since I'd gather more are taking to the roads with high gas prices.We should all be getting some much-needed perspective from this tragedy, not trying to place blame on a group of people by spouting traffic ordinances.

hootman31 7 years, 2 months ago

Only a cyclist would consider a 2-lane 55-mile-an-hour KS STATE highway, with no shoulders, to be SAFE?Old STATE 10 HWY is not flat, it is not straight, and it is NOT SAFE, even in a vehicle.How can a road that you can't pass on, without fear of a head-on-collision be safe? This is a very dangerous road due to the limited visibility, slight curves, slight hills, and it is 55 MPH.Non different from rural Haskell St., rural Louisiana St, rural road to Baldwin; or any of the other popular frequented bike paths in rural Lawrence.This was a very tragic, inconceivable, undo-able, catastrophe that should not be turned into a sounding board for bicycle enthusiasts!

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Those are city codes, Emily. This happened outside the city limits and the state laws would apply. Cyclists and drivers need to know both sets of laws.As for Indecent Liberties With a Child, road bikes don't work on sidewalks, and I wish cars would just stick to the primary roads. I mean if they were driving out of pure necessity that would be one thing, but unnecessarily congesting the roadways, spewing toxic fumes, and creating hazards when they swerve to avoid other users of the road puts us all at risk.Just because it is legal...

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, Waddles. My 5:25 was in response to hootman31 at 5:21.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Interstates have a minimum primarily to keep traffic flowing, IMO. But minimums can bet set by local government if there has been a valid study showing that such is necessary for safety. Personally, I don't recall having ever seen such a thing.The fact remains that anytime a vehicle driver is not on an interstate where bikes, buggies, and pedestrians are prohibited the driver must be ready for bikes, buggies, and pedestrians. I think road safety is everyone's responsibility, but vehicles pose the greatest danger and therefore their users must be more careful.

average 7 years, 2 months ago

Lsense - having had enough people reach out of cars to hit me, throw bottles at me, release dogs to chase me, and scream "I'm gonna kill you f*n bicyclists"... yeah... we tend to get a little bit defensive.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 2 months ago

This is absolutely terrible.It is always tragicwhen drivers are inattentive to others on the road, but this was broad daylight, open road, so preventable. I have often suggested that road to others and enjoy biking it myself. I was just planning a ride from Johnson County to Lawrence and including that in the route.I would recommend that everyone familiarize themselves with the traffic codes and right of way. It goes way beyond the driver license exam questions.The traffic code has specifics for bicycles' rights. For example, you may NOT ride two abreast on bicycles. (Chapter 17, amendment 17--114) Cyclists DO have the right to the whole roadway-- even with bike lanes, you can ride on the road if the bike lane is full of debris or gravel and unsafe, as they often are. However, no driver may obstruct traffic with slow speed, whether in a car or on a bike. Kansas STO for cities:http://www.lkm.org/publications/sto-upocpop.htmlLawrence city code:http://www.lawrenceks.org/city_code/Lawrence's state code with local ordinance amendments:http://web.ci.lawrence.ks.us/legal_services/citycode/2005%20sto%20lawrence%20(integrated).htmlThese laws are important to know. Knowing the rights and responsibilities of drivers and cyclists prevents accidents on both sides.

verity 7 years, 2 months ago

And Baille is right, since vehicles pose the greatest danger, their users should be more careful.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Emily the bike lane is on the roadway. The only bike lanes we have within the definition are the marked paths along some of our streets that are reserved exclusively for cyclists. Unfortunately, they tend to be short and randomly placed.The big wide sidewalks, e.g. along Clinton Parkway, are multi-use paths and cyclists are not required to use them.

hootman31 7 years, 2 months ago

Road doesn't turn south, there is a bow in the road to the south, or the road bows out toward the south. I am guessing the accident happened just west of 2000 RD in the 1900 Part, (i.e. just west of where the road bow's!).Peach Orchard RD as it was known, is also 1900 RD, so again it happened just west of 2000 RD, and no activitey was visible from that intersection, (i.e. couldn't see past the hump/dip in the road, i.e. not flat!)1400 RD was blocked off at 1900 RD and at the Wakarusa River leaving Eudora, and 2000 RD was blocked off at 1500 RD.

OnlyTheOne 7 years, 2 months ago

I got tired of reading some of this trash. So let me remind you that bicyclists are responsible for following all the rules of the road as are automobiles. And one rule of the road that I've seen many (and I do mean many) drivers ignore is that the bicyclist has the right to the FULL width of the lane! Therein lies a lot of problems between automobile riders ('cause let's face it folks - durn few of you still "drive" you "ride" while texting on the telephone, listening to the CD or MP3 or even watching a video while you grab a bite to eat or a drink).I get perturbed at some bicyclists also but I get perturbed by at least the same percentage of auto riders.

Richard Heckler 7 years, 2 months ago

Seems this road is a frequent choice of cyclists as some drivers on this thread also imply.Then it should be pretty much second nature to be watching for cyclists on this roadway no matter what. It's a given they are out there so beware. Why be angry about cyclists? After all cyclists in and around Lawrence,Kansas is not unusual to say the least. The driver simply could not have been paying attention. One bike does not occupy the road.

LadyJ 7 years, 2 months ago

The place that scares me to see bicyclists is Highway 40 (I think that's the one) between 6th and Wakarusa and Stull Rd. It is all hills and no shoulder. I see them a lot on that road. You just have to drive behind them up the hill till you get over the top because it is too dangerous to pass them. Is there some reason they like that road? I'm mainly talking about the stretch after Highway 10 to Stull.

gccs14r 7 years, 2 months ago

"However, if you were to, oh, I don't know, OPEN your eyes, you would see that the sidewalks in the areas where people ride bikes on the roads are new, wide, and very very smooth."Apparently you don't walk anywhere, either. Most of the sidewalks in this town are impassable for anyone not skilled in Alpine hiking. BTW, there's a huge difference between a modern road bike and the 40lb steel cruiser bikes from the 60s.

JerryStubbs 7 years, 2 months ago

It sounds like if he got hit from behind probably the driver of the car was going fast enough that he didn't see him in time. I wonder where this was in relation to that bridge there over the river.

supercowbellninja 7 years, 2 months ago

Jesus - Can't we all just share the f-ing road? There are highways like K-10, I-70, I-435, and then there are these county road "highways" that should be shared by drivers and cyclists alike.Just because you have to slow down for all of a quarter mile to pass a group of riders, you take it as a starting point to rail on all cyclists. I agree that there are many riders who do not obey every traffic law to the "T", but surely all the bicycle haters on here are not model citizens behind the wheel either. Let's just agree to disagree on some of the larger points made here, but above all, let's just all try to be aware of our surroundings while we drive or pedal our area roads.No one group or failed traffic statute is to blame for this accident, which is a tragedy. It should serve as a reminder to all of us that we need to be alert and aware when behind the wheel and even when on a bicycle pedaling down a county road.It's silly and immature to use this kind of tragedy as rationale for a free-for-all verbal slam-fest of anyone drivers and cyclists alike. That gets us nowhere. If anything, this tragedy should be a reminder of what can happen in the blink of an eye if a driver or cyclist becomes too careless on our area roads.Please, let's just all look out for one another, ok?

storm 7 years, 2 months ago

There are 85 million bicycle riders in the US.* 770 bicyclists died on US roads in 2006, down just 14 from the year before. Over 90 percent died in crashes with motor vehicles.Sounds like bicyclists may have better stats than motorists who are always crashing into each other. Still, we motorists just have to share the road and not the lane.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

  1. a lady on a bike made a left turn in front of me. I was in the left turning lane on New Hamspire turning east towards Boarders. She was in the right lane. I thougth she was going straight..well the light changed. I made my left and she was right beside me. I almost hit her. I thought she was suppose to be to the left or behind me to make that turn.If she was in the left lane - even far to the right - you should have stopped behind her. Otherwise, she should have stopped behind you or, if in the right lane, should have gone straight or turned right. In all cases, everyone involved should have signaled their intent. Similar situation: I was stopped at a red light in downtown on Mass when a car pulled up beside me. When the light turned green, I went straight and the car started to turn right. Then he honked at me like I was not where I was supposed to be.---------------------------------------------------------2. I was at a 4 way stop. Bike rode right threw didn't stop.Cyclists should not have ridden through. Was this a real question? Seriously?--------------------------------------------------------3. Bike ran a red light while I was stopped.Oh. You have an agenda. I see. Well, "the basics" for the bike when the cyclists is riding on the street is no different than the basics for a car. When a cyclists is riding on the sidewalks they must act like a pedestrian. There is case law supporting the distinction. When a cyclists is riding in an exclusive bike lane, they must act like a vehicle.As a general rule of thumb, you can't go wrong with "running red lights is bad."----------------------------------------------------------------4. I was on Locust st. 4 cyclist were riding in a row. I couldn't past. The 18-wheeler behind me started honking and flashing his lights.You couldn't pass? Jesus. The failure of our educational system on display. Honk at the cyclists who are clearly breaking the law. Wait for a safe time to pass if they don't move over. Flip off the jackass behind you in the truck if you just can't stand the stress.These are the basics for you? I think I smell the faint scent of false sincerity.

KS 7 years, 2 months ago

adriennerm - The answer to your question is yes, but the headline reads that bikers are confused about accident. That is part of the problem. Bikers don't believe they have to obide by the same rules as cars, etc. When they don't and an accident happens, well, guess what? They are confused. I offer my deepest sympathy to the family of this deputy, but when you ride a bike in traffic, you have to be able to accept the risks. The road was designed and built for auto traffic, back when people didn't ride bikes like they do today. That should make some bikers mad.

verity 7 years, 2 months ago

This is a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to the family, friends, and sheriff's department.Also to the driver of the car. Whatever the cause, he will live with this the rest of his life and I'm sure he wishes he could have a do over.I personally feel that we should have more bike lanes and bike paths, so that cars and bikes are not sharing the same roadway. It is just inherently dangerous no matter how careful one is.

fu7il3 7 years, 2 months ago

Regardless of what caused the accident, I'm sure the driver feels awful about it, and Lawrence lost a great person in Lt. Dillon.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

As noted above and from the story yesterday:"According to a Kansas Highway Patrol accident report, Dillon was riding west on the road when a 20-year-old Eudora man driving a 2003 Oldsmobile struck him from behind, causing Dillon to fall into the north ditch of the road."

borrowed_LPs 7 years, 2 months ago

"Without commenting on this accident, I do believe that bicycles should be banned from all roads with a posted speed limit of more than 40-45 mph."These roads in question are not highways. They are not heavily traveled by motorists. Any given sunday morning, I see more cyclists than cars on them. Up until this point, we've all been doing a fairly good job of coexisting. Can we please just continue to do so? Banning cyclists from these roads would mean an increase of those cycling for pleasure/exercise, not transportation, in the already-congested lawrence traffic. It would also mean that those of us who use bikes for long-distance transportation would be suddenly breaking the law for simply going to visit family in a neighboring city. I don't need or want any more situations in which I am tempted to bend the law than I am already presented with on a daily basis as a cyclist.

tommyboy 7 years, 2 months ago

We all own the roads, however it it the motorists who have to pay for tags and taxes in order to drive on the roads not bicyclists. We can't drive ATVs on the roads since they aren't tagged and they go considerably faster than a bicycle. It is very frustrating to have to come to an almost complete stop because there are bicyclists riding across the lane and they don't get into a single file when a car comes. It's like they want to see how far they can go before getting hurt. I also drive the stretch of road where this accident occured twice a day and there is just enough of a dip to hide even a car. I can see where this bicycle could of been hidden just enough that a motorists wouldn't see them until it was to late. Espically considering the car was going a min. of 55 mph and the biker was traveling considerably less.

igby 7 years, 2 months ago

Remember that the Sun was in the east shortly after 8:00 a.m. and they were both headed east. The Sun could have been a factor if there was oncoming traffic.

gmemusic 7 years, 2 months ago

Reality is that bikes and cars share many of the roads in this area, so motorists need to be aware and respectful, and cyclists need to do the same. I can't speak for all cyclists, nor can I speak for all motorists, but I can speak for myself and when I am in my car I will be respectful to other motorists and users of the road, and when I am on my bike I will do the same. Your turn.

adriennerm 7 years, 2 months ago

Not sure if you're referring to my question "saltyboatr" If you are let me say this...my question is not irrelevant to the issue. I am asking a question regarding sharing a road with other cyclist. Like a stated..I don't have a problem doing so...I just need someone to clarify if they can do those things. I am not even attempting to make any excuses for what happened to David Dillion. It was sad and probably could have been prevented. I beleive you must understood my post. I was asking if the same rules of the road that applies to me an automobile driver, applies to a cyclist..nothing more nothing less.

weatherguy48 7 years, 2 months ago

I give cyclists a car width and a half when I pass them, even if they are in the bike lanes on 19th or 15th or whatever other streets have them. I'm scared to that I'm gonna hit them. If they are riding in the traffic lane, I just chill behind them. At the worst I'll get to my destination a few minutes later than expected, no biggy. Not worth risking a life. As I mention in many of my posts, I deliver pizza so I see a lot of cyclists on the road.

Sigmund 7 years, 2 months ago

merrill (Anonymous) says: "Cyclists can legally ride two abreast. Cyclist have as much right to a road as any other vehicle. Does a car or truck driver own the road anymore than a cyclists?"No but the truck driver does have a 2000 lbs advantage in the event either makes a mistake. The bicyclist may be in the "right" and still be just as dead. I guess for some cyclist making their point is worth the risk and being "dead right" is some comfort. Call me a coward, it just isn't worth dying over. Oh by the way Richard, wasn't it your "Traffic Safety Commission" that implemented the policy of narrowing streets (like 19th Street) and adding bike lanes effectively using Lawrence bicyclists as moving "traffic calming devices?" Just how "safe" is that for bicyclists?Baille (Anonymous) says: "Where it is legal, I ride my bikes wherever seems best. My road bike usually on the road but sometimes on the multi-use paths around town. I ride my mountain bike on road or sidewalk, whichever I choose."I also ride where ever I feel the safest. On busy streets with fast moving traffic (6th, 15th, Iowa, Wakarusa, Kasold, etc.) that is generally the sidewalk especially when the students are in town. On streets with slower traffic and busy sidewalks like Mass that is generally the street. As long as I am alive to get the citation I will gladly pay the fine.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

I may have spoke too soon. Lawrence Municipal Code 17-702 says "It shall be unlawful for any person to ride a bicycle within any business district within the City or upon any sidewalk within a distance of 100 feet from any store or business place or place of assembly or where specifically prohibited by posted sign."However, I don't know what specifically constitutes a "business district."

SaltyBoatr 7 years, 2 months ago

The bottom line here is that while motor vehicle drivers and bicycle operators have equal legal right to the road, there is a tradition in Kansas that motor vehicle drivers dominate over bicycle operators. It really is a Kansas tradition of violation of bicyclists' civil rights by some motor vehicle operators.More, the Courts, both USA and Kansas, have ruled that there is a constitutional right to travel, guaranteed! (See case law Bydofsky v. Borough of Middleton (1976), Swift v. City of Topeka (1890), and others.) Because a motor vehicle drivers license is revocable there is a strong legal theory that the right to bicycle locomotion has an enhanced protection, because the right of locomotion by some method or another is constitutionally guaranteed. In a funny way, per this principle, bicyclists have a greater constitutional guarantee to the road that motor vehicles operators. (Because motor vehicle licenses are revocable, but the right of locomotion is not revocable, an alternative form of locomotion must remain.).

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Oh yeah, Indecent Liberties, you caught me. i admit that it is technically possible to ride a road bike on the sidewalk. My God, now every point I have made must be called into question. What did you put in the glass pipe this evening that would make you think that you are making any sort of headway in this discussion?" It is illegal to ride bikes on the sidewalks downtown anyway."Not technically, Oh technical Indecent Liberties. It is illegal in Lawrence to ride a bike within 100 ft of an entrance to a business, which just happens to include all the sidewalks downtown.Where it is legal, I ride my bikes wherever seems best. My road bike usually on the road but sometimes on the multi-use paths around town. I ride my mountain bike on road or sidewalk, whichever I choose."However, if you were to, oh, I don't know, OPEN your eyes, you would see that the sidewalks in the areas where people ride bikes on the roads are new, wide, and very very smooth."Yeah cause clearly you know what you are talking about. Jesus. It is patently obvious you haven't been on a bike in and around Lawrence ever. There are some good multi-use sidewalks around town (23rd, west 6th), but most sidewalks stink for bikes and many are just plain dangerous to navigate on a road bike. The roads around the county -wait for it - have no sidewalks. Huh. Imagine that. Want to ride your bike to Topeka? No sidewalks. Gardner? No sidewalks.Fact is the law says that I can ride on the sidewalk or the street - unless there is an exclusive bike path or a business entrance within 100 feet. However, I have a responsibility to be careful and cautious just like everyone else on the road. That is my agenda. Oh my god, you found me out. Guess I better be just open about it. Know the law. Respect other users of the road. And be cautious. Oh my god. The horror.

borrowed_LPs 7 years, 2 months ago

sorry to drag up old ghosts, but I had to seize this gem:"Modern sidewalks were specifically designed for bicycle usage."Wrong. Modern sidewalks were specifically designed to meet accessibility codes for the disabled. Lawrence isn't exactly the epitome of a "modern" city, for that matter.on different note:I have no car and try to get a lift or take the k-10 connector to Kansas City, but sometimes, I have to ride there. These roads are dangerous, I know, so I always wear a helmet and sometimes turn on my rear flasher. There is a small stretch of road between Lawrence and Kansas City which specifically prohibits non-motorized vehicles. It is a dangerously narrow road with little-to-no markings. I always have a brief moral dilemma before riding this. Do I break the law and risk my neck? The answer is invariably yes, because I have yet to find another route to KC which doesn't put me 20+ miles (I'm a slow rider, so this means about an 75 minutes) out of my way. I was horrified to see this tragedy occur in what I considered to be one of the safest areas of my commute. please. continue to be law-abiding citizens to the best of your understanding and capability, but remember that the law can neither protect you nor mandate an exact right or wrong for every situation.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

BS, KS.There is no evidence at all offered that Mr. Dillon was operating his bicycle in contravention of any laws or in a way that was unreasonably risky. By all account so far, he was riding his bike in a safe and prudent manner in a place that he had every right to be when he was struck from behind by a motorist. Now we don't know why the motorist hit him. Car radio. Sleepy. Medical condition. Nothing. Anything else is nothing but empty conjecture. Have to be able to accept the risk? BS. Is that our response to the lady that killed those highway workers south of town? "Well they were standing in the highway. Accept the risk." The young promising social worker struck by the drunk driver when her car broke down? "Accept the risk. People get drunk and they drive. Don't like it, stay home." What about when the dude runs the light and smashes your car? Just gonna pay that off yourself even though it was the other's guys fault? Yeah, right.If nothing else, this tragedy should cause us all to reevaluate our prejudices and our behaviors. Cyclists have a duty to follow the law. No argument. Motorists have the duty to keep a careful lookout and maintain control over their vehicle such that they can avoid colliding with people lawfully using the roadway. And we all have to be more aware of both the state and municipal laws that apply to using our public roads.

Lonestar1 7 years, 2 months ago

I think a license plates for bikes would be great! Use the fees to maintain bike paths & lanes. I always love it when the county applies chip & seal to my road (458) because it keeps the bikes off the road for a while. I don't mind one or two bikes on the road, I do object to the "bike club" being on the road at the same time. They seem to have problems with following the rules. Two dozen bikes blowing through a stop sign is a hazard.

alr 7 years, 2 months ago

To everyone who has responded to this tragedy:It is great this has sparked such interest, however, I knew Dave personally and what he would want to come out of this is not the bickering, but just that everyone work together to make sure something like this doesn't happen again. Everyone who is on the road, cyclist and motorist, are all responsible for their own actions and need to take that seriously. Unfortunately, we all get lax in our carefulness when we are not involved in an incident for awhile and that is what causes these terrible events to take place.Unfortunately, places like Eudora have no bike/walking paths, no bike lanes, and the sidewalks they do have (except in the new development areas) are broken to the point you can't even walk on them. I agree it would be wonderful to have these everywhere, but unfortunately...some places do not invest in such things. My child is currently learning to drive and believe me, I am terrified at the actions WE ALL take while on the road.I also ask that no judgements be passed until all the information is collected and a report is filed. Dave was an officer of the court and that's what he did. If you read some of the comments on the other sites about him, you will understand that he treated everyone with respect and dignity (no matter what they may have been accused of or charged with). So please, life if too short (even if you live to be 100), so tell those you love how you feel today - don't wait and hope you can do it tomorrow.PLEASE, drive, cycle, skateboard, walk, and just live safely. If nothing else, think of Dave next time you are on the road.

acg 7 years, 2 months ago

I didn't say that was the actual reason for the accident, informed, I'm just saying it was one of the possible reasons for the accident. Lord have mercy, you people will split a hair down to a nubbin' if you think it gives you more room to bitch and preach at others. And since we're splitting hairs, oh so informed, were you on that particular stretch of road exactly in that spot exactly when that accident happened? Can you be sure, 100%, without a shadow of a doubt that the sun didn't peak thru the clouds and cause a glare in that kid's eyes? If not, then shuddup about it. You're all annoying and you've beat this dead horse into a bloody pulp.

weatherguy48 7 years, 2 months ago

I do remember once incident last summer. I was driving on 15th street on campus and there was a cyclist on the road. I stayed back a bit and gave him some space.Suddenly, he wiped out. It was like his front wheel suddenly stopped spinning and he went over the handlebars and facefirst into the road, his bike slamming down on top of him. He got up pretty slowly, and told myself and other concerned drivers that he was okay and to drive on.Myself and the cyclist were both doing about 15-20 MPH so he went down hard, and I barely managed to stop in time. If I would've been riding his ass like I see most people do then it would've been lights out.

cds 7 years, 2 months ago

Defender (Anonymous) says: "Sorry, bike riding predates autos by a good 100 years and paved roads by even longer than that."Yes, so that means that the roads do not belong to bicycles. The paved road system we have now WAS designed for automotive traffic, not bicycles, period.__Your right the road doesn't belong to bicycles, I don't think I know any bicycle that owns anything. People own bicycles, and the roads belong to bike riders, auto users, motorcycle riders, trucks, semis, or even people who prefer to use horse and buggy. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true.

Sigmund 7 years, 2 months ago

It is obvious to me that Baille and I ride our bikes and drive our cars in the same town as my list would be nearly indistinguishable. I will only add that even while riding on the sidewalks to avoid traffic I have had cars come from behind and turn the corner in front of me. One even stopped in the cross walk got out of her car and walked to a newspaper stand to get a paper!I don't count on drivers noticing me. I don't count on drivers using their turn indicators to signal their intentions. I don't count on drivers knowing the finer points of case law with respect to bicyclists rights to the road and honoring those rights. Most drivers do watch for bicyclists and even good drivers makes a mistake here and there but it only takes one incident with a ton of steel moving 35-45 mph to ruin your day.

average 7 years, 2 months ago

I am impressed how quickly Marion went from his typical libertarian self to the "they're a danger to themselves... ban ban BAN".

John Spencer 7 years, 2 months ago

passedHaving completed the act of passing. passTo pass another car on the roadpastIt was a bad time, but it's all past now. throughTo pass through a tunnel; We drove through Denver without stopping. The light came through the window.threwTom threw the ball to Bob. thorough executed without negligence or omissions: a thorough search.

John Spencer 7 years, 2 months ago

Such a tragic loss of life. My prayers go out to all involved.The ramblings of a tired geek.I am a bicycler as is my wife and my son. We like the bike paths and use them as often as we can. While driving my car I more often than not see biclyists disobeying traffic laws, some quite agregiously. I see them run stops signs, pass traffic on the right when the traffic is stopped. They run red lights. But now comes a nice sceniic road and they demand everyone else look out for them. While I understand the situation. I think one thing is clear when a 2 ton vehicle and a 20 pound bike collide, the bike rider will be the one damaged or dead. It doesn't really matter whether the car driver was on a cell phone, or fiddling with the radio, the outcome is the same, road pizza. The car driver may see the biker and slow down for them, but if the biker hits a pot hole, or looses controll and falls, again, 2 tons vs human on the ground, there will be a loser, the biker. All kinds of scenarios can be created on both sides of the argument, but again 2 tons of car VS a human body, will nearly always end the same way, one dead biker. Someone earlier mentioned that combines, and other slow moving vehicles are there and we drivers have to wait for them.1. they are much larger and often have several kinds of large reflectors and blinking lights.2. If a car hits them, they car will more likely take the brunt of the damage.I was driving down Mass st. last year during 'Critical Mass'when I came to a stop at 7th and mass heading south. I became surrounded by bikes on all sides, including a few that decided to just ride around in circles in the middle of the intersection. When the light turned gren I went forward and the people that had been next to the passenger side door took offense and one of them rode up to my window on the drivers side and started berating me for 'running them off the road' I said to him "wth are you talking about? I drove forward in the center of the lane I am in and I ran them off the road?" He then yelled at me " We have just as much a right to this road" I thought to myself "huh"

nikki23 7 years, 2 months ago

My deepest sympathies to the family that has suffered this loss. And to the police department, as they too lost a family member.I just want to say that I do know how frustrating it is to have to wait/go around a cyclists. But, it is necessary for both parties to pay attention regardless of how much of a pain it is.My grandmother was driving down Kentucky last weekend. She was in the right lane, and approached a young man on a bike. She moved to the left lane to provide plenty of room for the both of them. He was carelessly listening to his iPod and as a result, he ran into her. He didn't look behind him or to the side. He just decided that he needed to be in the left lane. He suffered a little road rash, and broke of my grandma's side view mirror. But, it was 100% his fault for being negligent.I feel for those who do not have any other form of transportation, but it seems to me that it would be safer for everyone if cyclists were restricted to a certain area. Like on 19th street, they have lanes especially for those on bikes. And if this can't be done, maybe they just should take the bus. I am tired and heartbroken from hearing about all of the people injured by careless drivers and all of the drivers that have been hit by careless cyclists.

borrowed_LPs 7 years, 2 months ago

what is and what will be are just as real as the here and now. history is a reality in which we do not currently participate. The future is a reality which I hope we leave open for as many lifestyles as choose to inhabit it.

benmuggn 7 years, 2 months ago

There was no glare when you are heading west on old ten.The guy was hit just passed the first right turn when you cross the bridge leaving eudora. I passed the site appearntly right after the kid hit the officer, he didnt seem to realize what he had done by the look i saw. I had just got off work and was heading home at 745am

cds 7 years, 2 months ago

KSA_21_3503 (Anonymous) says: If they were biking for transportation, that would be one thing. But since they are doing this for recreation, I don't think they have as good of an argument for unnecessarily congesting rights-of-way and creating hazards for not only themselves but drivers who may swerve to avoid them.__What? If it's for transportation its ok, but if it's for recreation its not ok??? Great idea, lets use this thinking for cars on the road as well, would cause less traffic. BTW Have fun stopping everyone and asking if this trip is for business or for pleasure, I'm sure law enforcement does not have anything better to do.Why anyone would ride a bike on that very narrow stretch of road with no shoulder and ditches that are very steep is beyond me. I've lived in this town for close to 20 years now and rode bikes for even longer and you couldn't pay me to ride my bike on that road.Reading the attitudes of some of you obvious anti-bike people makes me want to vomit, share the damn road people, dispite what you seem to think you are NOT the only person allowed to be on the road. Do some bike riders not follow the laws? Yes, far too many. Do some auto users not follow the laws? Yes, far too many.For those of you yelling for people to ride bikes on sideWALKS, several posters have already said the same thing, you have not ridden a bike on many and I mean many, of this city's side walks. Ever ridden a bike on cobblestone or broken concrete sideWALKS with tree roots sticking out? Good luck and see you at LMH. Most likely your the same people who would be screaming bloody murder when someone rides past you on the sideWALK and nearly hits you when they scare you.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

You picked the sarcastic point to refute, Indecent Liberties. After I pointed out my own failure to address the business district issue? Nice.You know you can call it male bovine excrement if you want, but at the end of the day it's still just a bunch of...

storm 7 years, 2 months ago

It makes no sense how this rider was hit if there were no curves and there was a clear view. Sad. I hope all motorists remember how important it is to not pass in the same lane as a horse and buggy, a tractor, or a bicycle, and instead wait to safely pass in the other lane.

oldfartwithnattitude 7 years, 2 months ago

Since we have an English proffesor and a smart a-- in the group, let me say this...... I saw my run-on sentence and was "temporarily distracted" by Baille, whatever that is and failed to correct my error prior to pushing the post comment button."How do I know this" I know at 8:00 in the morning most people haven't been drinking or doing drugs. Even if he was texting, which some believe to be the case, let those without sin be the first to cast a stone. IT WAS A _ accident.

gmemusic 7 years, 2 months ago

rantor's rantings did do one "good" thing, though, IMO. It helped to bring a little awareness to the problem of personal inconvenience at the expense of others. If you were, like I was, irritated (or more) by rantor's rantings on the inconvenience suffered during this funeral, please keep that in mind next time you are driving on one of the county roads and encounter a solo or group of cyclists and be a little forgiving of any personal inconvenience they may be causing you. Share the road in honor of Lt. Dillon. RIP

Flap Doodle 7 years, 2 months ago

marioni razzing someone about ad hominem attacks.The hypocrite meter just jumped off the shelf.

oldfartwithnattitude 7 years, 2 months ago

Let those who ride decide! Now there's an interesting concept. What about the rest of us. We don't get a say? We MOTORISTS don't want the risk of this happening again. Highways were not built to share with bicyclists.... period. End of discussion. For YOUR safety and our peace of mind find somewhere safe to ride. Cyclists can form a coalition to fight for SAFE riding environments. Just stay off the highways until then.

average 7 years, 2 months ago

hootman31 - Interesting thing about the DeSoto ban. I'm not sure if you know how that went down.To avoid lawsuits for denied access, KDOT was forced to allow bicycles and pedestrians on the real freeway K-10 between Evening Star Road (DeSoto) and Renner Blvd in Lenexa. Watch the road signs some time. Cyclists and pedestrians were given access to that road (using the shoulder, hopefully) for not filing a lawsuit.

trollkiller 7 years, 2 months ago

Bone 777, When you get to high school, don't skip English and try to surround yourself with people that don't live in your trailer park.

tvc 7 years, 2 months ago

Why don't you quit driving since navigating around objects seems to be such a challenge for YOU!!I am not harming anyone. You are the one that has the potential to harm me. Let me decide what risks I am willing to take.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

On the Kansas Turnpike Authority? Individual members or as a collective body? In any case, I think that would be battery.And don't bother trying to bait me, Marion. I say, "No." You say "Why not?" I say something. You either affirm my reasoning if it resembles your own and then you say, "Aha. Because cars weigh 8 million pounds and go very fast so it's unsafe." Or you say, "No, Baille. That's not why. It's because of 'X'." And then you segue into, "And cars weigh 8 million pounds and go very fast so it's unsafe." What's the point, Marion? My position is that I damn well have the right to use the road to ride to Ottawa, Gardner, Topeka, or Maine because it is a public highway and until the public puts a bike path next to every road, I have as much right to use the roads as you do. The interstate highway system does not pose an undue burden on my right to use the public roads. A global ban would. Your position is that its unsafe and poses an unreasonable risk to jackasses that enjoy rehabbing antique junkers and driving them at 4 mpg all around the backgrounds of Douglas County. Guess we are gonna disagree on this one. But you have been dangling that ban-all-bikes bait for a couple of days now and no one has bitten.Consider this my toying with the bait. But I ain't gonna swallow the hook. Time to move on to a new hole, Marion. :)

robyn8 7 years, 2 months ago

I am completely disgusted by everything that Rantor said. I cant believe that someone would be that heartless. When a great man dies, all he/she can think about is how it inconvenienced them. Did you happen to stop and think about how his family feels? I personally know his two daughters well and I can tell you that I have never had a more heartwrenching day than yesterday. Lt. Dave Dillon was a great man and for some reason a careless driver took him from his family. Dillon leaves behind two TEENAGE daughters, his parents, an older brother, a twin brother, and countless other hurt family members. If rantor had been there to see how torn apart this family is by the death of their family member, rantor never would have said what they did. Rantor was not there in the funeral where Dillon's older brother stood up and gave a touching Eulogy for his younger brother. Or even, when his two courageous daughters stood up in front of the entire room and read a letter to their father asking him to be there when they graduate from high school/college and to be with them to walk them down the aisle some day. Rantor obviously was not there because he/she would have seen that there was not a dry eye in the entire church. Rantor also would have seen the amount of people that were touched by Lt. Dave Dillon. The entire church was so full that they had 3 separate hallways filled with people standing or sitting and they had to turn on the speaker system so everyone could hear.

Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

Trollkiller, you are a fricken' loser and if this wasn't just a thread, I would take my 6'4", 265 lbs ass and give you a lesson in respect. I spelled one word wrong and I have to hear it, from some hand humper. Take care butt plug...

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

Do you have a point you're trying to make, imagold?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

OK, let me type more slowly, justfornow.Does imagold have a point that is relevant to this thread? Or is imagold merely saying that anybody on a bicycle deserves to die a horrible death?

oldfartwithnattitude 7 years, 2 months ago

Instead of acting like children, trying to defend your cause, let's work together to fix the problem to make sure this doesn't happen again to a rider or someone who accidently hit's a rider. I travel this road twice a day and I assure you, it could happen to any of us. No consideration has been given to the poor kid that has to live with what he did the rest of his life. He was just temporarily distracted, like many of us have been before, at the most inopportune time possible. I assure you, if you interviewed all of the cyclists that travel this road, many of them would say they've have had close calls with traffic, but have continued to put their lives on the line. Whether bicyclists have as much right to be on the highways or not, and I believe highways have been constructed for fast moving, heavy automobiles, not slow moving bicycles with no saftey features of any kind.So let's not try to find fault, but fix the problem. It was an accident. If bike paths or wider shoulders are not made a part of this stretch of highway and bikers continue to travel it..... Lt. Dillons death will have beem in vain and another life will be lost at some point.

Flap Doodle 7 years, 2 months ago

Since older cars lack many of the safety devices that are required on new cars perhaps only automobiles made within the last 10 years should be licensed to operate on the public roads.Do it for the children.

imagold 7 years, 2 months ago

The very next day after this accident, around 5:00 p.m., I was at the intersection of 6th and Wakarusa, stopped at the red light and headed west. There was a bike rider headed south, and about 25 ft north of the intersection. Our westbound light turned green, as well as the left turn green arrow. That means his light was red. Additionally the red "do not walk" light was flashing. He had plenty of time to stop. Traffic headed west was half-way across the intersection and that bonehead on the bike went right on across, looking at the cars to make sure none of them hit him. I hope he realizes how damn lucky he was that the motorists that could have taken him out, hit the brakes. Bonehead...

gmemusic 7 years, 2 months ago

Here's a fact, Lt. Dillon is no longer with us, and no amount of name calling, finger pointing, bashing or arguing can change that. His wife is without a husband, his children without a father, and that is a tragic, terrible loss. Another fact is that the young man who hit him, regardless of the how or why, will have to live with that for the rest of his life. He can do nothing to change the events of that Saturday morning. The question becomes, at what point does human life become less important than who is right or wrong? At what point does it no longer matter that a person has lived or died? If the driver was passing safely, giving plenty of room to Lt. Dillon, perhaps even decelerating as he went by as an added caution, and it was Lt. Dillon's "fault" somehow that he ended up in front of the car, does that change the fact that he is dead and the driver will have to live with that for the rest of his life? No, it does nothing to change what happened. All we can do is try to figure out how to keep it from happening again, and banning cyclists is not the way.As I mentioned before, there is a need to go back to "defensive driving", allowing room for "accidents" to happen, paying attention on the roadways, and not being so quick to anger when someone "violates" our driving rights, errrr, priveleges. And don't worry, I'm talking to myself here too. Weatherguy48, I appreciate your comments, especially for someone who drives for a living, so to speak. If I ever get a pizza from you, I'll try to remember to tip you better, just for the respect you've shown to us cyclists on this board. I'm sure that if the accident were discovered to be Lt. Dillon's "fault", that it wouldn't make it any better for the driver, I know it wouldn't for me. I'd still live every day wishing I would have given a little more room, or taken another route that day, or gone a little bit slower, anything to have avoided killing another human being, regardless of fault. All the "right" in the world couldn't erase the feeling that there could have or should have been something I could have done differently. My sincere condolences to both families.

jumpin_catfish 7 years, 2 months ago

Officer Dillon was my kids DARE officer at South and they thought he was super guy. God rest his soul and comfort his family and friends.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

That's not a bad idea. You must have had your coffee this morning, Marion.

Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

Rantor = pimple on the ass of society, that someone should popI read his comment and asked myself what kind of doofus would decide to get on here and complain about his being inconvenienced by a funeral for the man that lost his life? I then realized this was the same kind of person that Dave was patiently working with on a daily basis, to educate and to serve. When I decided to call him a name I knew Dave would have gave me a sideways glance, chucked, shaken his head, and tried to get away from me A.S.A.P.God Bless you Dave, and I hope that I am able to serve as well as you have to be honored in such a fashion. I also hope that when my procession is readied, that Rantor is held up in traffic to see me go by...

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Ok, Ancient Flatulence. Just wondered if you were privy to actual facts or simply making an educated guess. I would imagine the mv driver was temporarily distracted, too, but I have no idea one way or the other.

Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

chucked or chuckled, he might have done either one...

Haiku_Cuckoo 7 years, 2 months ago

"Now, since I've recently completed full restoration of my 1956 Schwinn Black Phantom; the one owner; me, I'm going to go take it safely for a spin, helmet and all."That's very impressive, especially considering the fact that Schwinn stopped making the Black Phantom in 1949! Your bike is simply a "Schwinn Phantom". (Just giving you a hard time. It actually sounds like a great ride. Did it require a repaint and fresh chrome plating?)

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

"He was just temporarily distracted, like many of us have been before, at the most inopportune time possible."How do you know this?

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

Nannystaters. Trying to ban bikes from public roads. What's the matter with Kansas?

Flap Doodle 7 years, 2 months ago

Stillhavingaverycoolandwonderfulinternetlife.

borrowed_LPs 7 years, 2 months ago

I don't own a car and I have to say that my life would be pretty uncomfortable without my bike and my ability to take it long distances. also. just as sidewalks were made to meet accessibility codes, highways were made to transport military vehicles. We just get to use them in the meantime between now and national crisis. They don't belong to anyone but the U.S. government, and I hope that it still believes in the rights of its citizens enough to ban no one from their use.

tvc 7 years, 2 months ago

Let those who ride decide! I don't need you to baby-sit me. I need you to watch the road!

AvidCyclist 7 years, 2 months ago

Firstly, I want to offer my condolences to the families of all parties involved in this terrible accident. This was a tragedy that shouldn't have to happen to anyone."oldfartwithnattitude (Anonymous) says: Let those who ride decide! Now there's an interesting concept. What about the rest of us. We don't get a say? We motorists don't want the risk of this happening again. Highways were not built to share with bicyclists:. period. End of discussion. For YOUR safety and our peace of mind find somewhere safe to ride. Cyclists can form a coalition to fight for SAFE riding environments. Just stay off the highways until then.""Highways were not built to share with bicyclists:. period. End of discussion. " Says who ? You ? Just because that is your self-centered opinion doesn't make it so. Cycling is an accepted, and legal, alternative form of transportation, on most roadways. If you don't believe that, look it up in the KS state driving manual. With the price of gas escalating, there will be more "alternative (to cars) forms of transportation" on the road, such as bicycles, scooters, motorcycles, etc, not less. If motorists, all of you that are so concerned about having to look out for cyclists, would drive with more consideration towards others on the road, be it bicyclists, other cars, mopeds, scooters, motorcycles, whatever -- something like this might not happen. Can we all try to show some consideration towards others on the road, whether it cyclists towards motor vehicles, motor vehicles towards cyclists, or whatever else is LEGALLY on the roadways. We are all people -- fathers, brothers, sons, mothers, sisters, daughters. Let's all work together to be able to co-exist on our roadways, regardless of what form of transportation each of us chose to navigate those roadways.

mycider 7 years, 2 months ago

First off, I offer my deepest condolences to Lt. Dillon's family and friends. I am so sorry for your loss.Second, I would like to offer a slightly different perspective on this debate. I know the road that Lt. Dillon was riding on fairly well because I ride on it almost every weekend -- relatively early in the morning, almost always on Saturdays. I ride on it because it is a long, flat, relatively untraveled stretch of roadway, and these characteristics make it ideal for performing plug chops on my moped. I was actually going to go for a ride on this road on the morning of this accident, but as I came over the hill from Eudora to head towards the bridge, I saw that the road was blocked ahead of me, and I had to turn around.Many of you are making the argument that bicyclists should not be using that road. I disagree. Bicyclists (and moped riders!) have just as much right to use that road as cars. I might even argue that they have MORE right to use the road in question, seeing as how bicycles and motorized bicycles are prohibited from using K10. Also, I'm not sure how many of you noted the time of the accident. This happened at approximately 8:00 in the morning. Were YOU up at 8:00 on Saturday morning? Not many people are up and driving around at that time. I purposely ride that road early in the morning in an attempt to block, bewilder, and annoy as few other motorists as possible. I'm sure many cyclists have the same viewpoint. I agree that sometimes cyclists are annoying when they block traffic with their slowness or when they run stop signs, neglect to signal their intention to turn, or otherwise flout the rules of the road. However, that does not mean they should be banned from using roads. Bicycling (and moped riding!) are legitimate forms of transportation that should be encouraged whenever and wherever possible, not prohibited. If you want to see more enforcement of laws for people using two-wheeled transportation, fine, whatever. Direct your energy towards that goal, but don't waste your time sitting behind your computer screen and writing complaints about how the cyclists are always in your way.As my final comment, I want to point out my favorite thing about that road. Yes, it's ideal for plug chops and I think that's dandy. However, my favorite thing about it is how beautiful, peaceful, and idyllic it is. I am simply happy when I ride on that road. To those of you speeding along it at 55mph (or probably even faster), please, some day try it at 35mph. Try it at 25mph. Try it at 15mph. Try it on a moped. Try it on a bicycle. Appreciate the wind in your face. Appreciate the Kansas vista. Appreciate the golden wheat and the green corn. Appreciate the blue sky and the brown earth. Appreciate the fresh air. Appreciate that you're still alive to appreciate all the wonderful things around you.

robyn8 7 years, 2 months ago

If Rantor had even been an acquaintance of Lt. Dave Dillon they would have realized that the funeral procession was not an inconvenience it was touching that so many people participated and honored the life that he lived. Rantor did not drive by the fire station and see that the trucks were out with lights flashing and every fireman standing outside at attention saluting as he passed by. Rantor did not see the ramily that stood outside their house with their hands over their hearts as the procession drove by. Rantor did not see the woman who stood outside her house holding a sign that said, "Thank you and God Bless". Rantor did not see the 21 gun salute. Rantor did not see how many police officers were there to honor the fallen. And most of all, Rantor did not see the reaction from his two heart broken daughters when the folded flags were presented to them. Believe me, I saw all of that. I have never felt worse for any family than the Dillons. My heart broke when I saw Meghan and Molly sobbing. I was so proud of them when they stood up and read the letter to their father because Lord knows that it takes strong women to stand up and say goodbye to their father.Rantor, unless you understand everything that went on yesterday, I believe you should just keep your mouth shut. A small time inconvenience to you meant a lot more to a lot of people. You saw how long the procession was, it was a big deal. A huge deal. A man lost his life and all you can think about is the time. Sad.My heart goes out to the entire Dillon family. Parents should never have to bury their child. His daughters should not have to grow up without their father. His brothers should not have to miss laughing and be with him. Lt. David K Dillon was a great man and will always be missed.R.I.P.

sinkorswim 7 years, 2 months ago

Rantor - I can't believe your own "public display of stupidity." Did you attend the services today? I'm guessing not, or you wouldn't embarrass yourself with such a comment. As someone who attended Lt. Dillon's memorial and burial services, I was extremely proud to be married to a member of our local law enforcement. The day was one of great emotion and I was in awe of the number of people who turned out for this incredibly sad event. The Sheriff's department and Lawrence PD are to be commended, as well as the other area agencies in attendance. It was an honor to see all the fine men and women who serve and protect us gather to pay their respects to a fellow officer. A special thanks to the law enforcement agencies in our area that came to town to make sure all went well, allowing our local officers the opportunity to attend the services. During the procession to the cemetary, it was encouraging to see so many people pulled over (by choice). There were actually folks standing along the route holding flags and signs. Others simply stood with their hand over their heart. It was very moving. It's really a shame you weren't able to understand the respect being shown, rather than viewing it as an inconvenience.If you ever find yourself in a similar situation, I hope you are shown more tolerance than you did today.

hootman31 7 years, 2 months ago

I would vote for 45 MPH speed limit, and no non-motorized vehicles on old hwy 10. Same rules that are now in affect for old hwy 10 between DeSoto and 7-HWY. Or i mean, i would support county officials that implement the above!Anyone want to take a guess as to why this was implemented in JOCO?

storm 7 years, 2 months ago

Marion and Rantor raise interesting ideas - no funeral processions on roads with speed limits over 40 mph.

Baille 7 years, 2 months ago

And I have learned that in the minds of some, every idiot who breaks the law is representative of the class as a whole. And then there are people like jfn who thinks this somehow fits into his Rush Limbaugh fantasy world of liberals v. god-and-country. Stupid...stupid people.By the way, Bone, you missed the comma after the first "and" and added a comma after "it" that should not be there. Also, you need a comma after "care" and you need to have the "b" and the "p" in "butt plug" capitalized. And your use of the ellipsis was not correct. If this wasn't just a thread, I would take my 6'0" and 175 lb. frame and give you a lesson in English. Although, as much as I misspell words and use run-on sentences and leave odd bits of fragments strewn throughout my prose, I may not be the best one to tutor you. Plus, it sounds like you and your unbelievably huge ass are kind of violent. That's not fun.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

"Are you suggesting that bicyclists never cause accidents?"Let me take a stab at that one, Marion.Bike riders do occasionally cause accidents, but it's very rare that those accidents cause much damage, injury or death beyond anyone but themselves.

getrightonoutofhere 7 years, 2 months ago

As a cyclist (transportation and recreation) it can be infuriating to see these comments blaming cyclists for accidents. People riding bikes are not spewing pollution into the air every time they run an errand. They are not driving 2000 lb death traps at high speeds through residential neighborhoods, and they are not being LAZY. I don't live in Lawrence anymore, but watching people fight for parking spaces on Mass street was like watching carnival of dunces...try walking or riding a bike. That way the rest of us don't have to live in a world of smog and people panting when they attempt to go up stairs.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

I'd say you proved my point quite successfully, Marion.

sdinges 7 years, 2 months ago

There a lot of reasons for motor vehicle accidents. If you relax and decide it can't happen to you because you don't drive under the influence, then you're just asking for trouble.I hope everyone keeps this accident in mind when they're tempted to text while driving, talk on the cell phone, change CDs while in motion, or drive while tired. Let's not forget all the other distractions: kids, pets, work, school, etc.

borrowed_LPs 7 years, 1 month ago

Life's ruff, folks.get over it. Bikes and cars are here to stay as long as the resources to create and run them last. Being a jerk doesn't prove anything. It just fuels the animosity in this non-reality which will carry over into the much more real (and more dangerous) world of ACTUALLY GOING PLACES. get up and move around and STOP WHINING.

Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

Baille, Thanks for the lesson. I will watch my free mis-use of the coma and my lack of respect for the 'Butt Plug'. Regarding my being violent, only after Bloody Marys and fireworks.What the hell is a ellipsis, anyway?

Bone777 7 years, 2 months ago

Marion, Not in a bad mood. Just an inebriated one. I'm better now...

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 2 months ago

Anybody who is ever on a street or highway has the potential to cause an accident, Marion, on foot, on a bike, in a car or however. There is nothing in your data that indicates that people on bikes cause disproportionally more accidents than people in motor vehicles.So as nearly as I can tell, your main point is that you have no point.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 1 month ago

While it might have been annoying, defender, what was dangerous about that pack of riders? Sure, if you had decided to pass that pack of riders without taking into account oncoming traffic, that would have been dangerous. But it would have been your actions, not the actions of the biker riders that was dangerous.And that's the case probably 90% of the time when a motorist encounters a group ride such as that one and an accident or near-accident ensues. The motorist finds the bike riders to be annoying, and in their anger they take some ill-advised and dangerous action, like passing in a zone without clear sight lines, such as around a curve, up a hill, or against oncoming traffic.

Bone777 7 years, 1 month ago

Rantor - It is my 22" guns and large muscular legs and buttocks. BMI has had me at obese, even when my body fat is 8%, but thank-you for being concerned with my health. My previous comment to you was a juvenile comment from someone who was making a case for why not to drink prior to posting. I should have received a PWI. You threw out an insult and I bit hard. Nice work, but remember about people in glass houses...

Bone777 7 years, 1 month ago

Rantor - Wrong poster. I meant my comment to trollkiller. YOU are still a pimple on the ass of society that someone should pop...

Commenting has been disabled for this item.