Anti-abortion advocates seek more Tiller charges / LJWorld.com

Archive for Monday, July 9, 2007

Kansas Attorney General Paul Morrison points out the charges that have been filed against Wichita doctor George Tiller during a news conference in Topeka. Morrison filed 19 misdemeanor charges Thursday against Tiller, a high-profile abortion provider, alleging the doctor had an improper financial relationship with a consulting physician on late-term procedures.

By Scott Rothschild

July 9, 2007

Mary Kay Culp speaks about the George Tiller investigation

Hear Mary Kay Culp, executive director of Kansans for Life, explain why she believes further investigation is warranted into Dr. George Tiller.

Topeka — Regardless of the outcome of the 19 misdemeanor charges filed against Dr. George Tiller, Attorney General Paul Morrison says his investigation is closed.

"From our perspective, it's over," Morrison said recently.

That pronouncement has angered anti-abortion advocates.

Late last month, Morrison filed charges alleging that Tiller violated the state's late-term abortion law by having a financial relationship with the consulting physician who is required to sign off on the procedure.

Morrison identified that physician as Dr. Kristin Neuhaus, of Nortonville, who once operated an abortion clinic in Lawrence. It closed in 2002.

The state law restricting late-term abortions says two physicians must agree to the procedure after determining that terminating the pregnancy is necessary either to save the life or protect the health of the woman. The law says the two physicians must be legally and financially independent of one another.

The charges stem from abortions done in 2003. Tiller was the doctor charged because he performed the abortions, Morrison said.

Both Tiller and Neuhaus have denied, through their attorneys, any financial relationship.

But opponents of abortion say Neuhaus has been the consulting physician for years on more than 19 late-term abortions.

Opponents ask: If Tiller and Neuhaus have had a financial relationship, as Morrison alleges, shouldn't more charges be filed?

"An independent special prosecutor needs to be assigned who can look at records for 2004, 2005, 2006, and finish the investigation," said Mary Kay Culp, executive director of Kansans for Life.

Operation Rescue President Troy Newman said Tiller and Neuhaus "had a symbiotic relationship in which neither of them could benefit financially without the other. Tiller very likely violated this portion of the law hundreds of times."

But Morrison said he will not look into the matter any further.

"We're going to have our hands full with this for a while, and one thing we didn't want to do was poke around in more medical records," he said.

Neuhaus' attorney, Jack Focht, has declined to say when Neuhaus worked with Tiller. Morrison will only say she no longer does.

Morrison, who supports abortion rights, inherited the Tiller case from his predecessor in the attorney general's office, Phill Kline, whom he defeated in November. Morrison has claimed that Kline, an ardent abortion opponent, pursued Tiller for political reasons.

After his defeat, but before leaving office, Kline filed charges against Tiller, alleging the physicians failed to justify late-term abortions and improperly reported the procedure to state officials. The charges were dismissed on jurisdictional grounds.

Anti-abortion advocates say Morrison's justification for ending the investigation - that he doesn't want to invade the privacy women by reviewing their medical records - is false. The anti-abortion advocates say the identity of women receiving abortions always would be redacted from the records.

Discussion

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9 July 2007
at 10:10 a.m.

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storm (Anonymous) says…

The word redacted means two things - to make ready for publication or to write in correct form. How can the anti-choice advocates assure that this will be done? I don't think it is possible. Finally, if the physicans who perform abortions can not provide these services, where will women go for safe abortions?
9 July 2007
at 10:39 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

“The anti-abortion advocates say the identity of women receiving abortions always would be redacted from the records.”
__________________________________________

Really? And did you believe this on September 21, 2004? When Phill Kline requested full, UNredacted records from Tiller's clinic?

The blood-and-gore obsessed extremists—like Marion, parkay, and STRS—truly don't want abortion to end. They take too much pleasure in the extremist theatrics to ever *TRULY* do something about the core cause of *all* abortions: the unwanted pregnancy.

At is stands, Tiller and his lawyer are set to challenge Kansas abortion laws. This could ultimately lead to SCOTUS, where a right-leaning court will rule in favor of Kansas abortion laws. This could be the end result of these small, yet well-researched and solidly-founded charges, filed by a calm, cool, professional legal strategist named Paul Morrison.

The bumbling dramatics of Phill Kline failed—his “charges” never even made it to trial, because of Kline's lack of legal skills.

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
9 July 2007
at 11:11 a.m.

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denali (Anonymous) says…

@Storm: The word redact has changed in recent times, thanks to the government itself. Prior to laws such as the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and similar law, the definition you gave was (and still is in a way) correct. In current govermental parlance, redact means to censor information protected by privacy or state secret statutes. For example, if you were to file a FOIA request with the FBI on various topics, you would most likely receive a “redacted version”, where they had taken a black marker and crossed out names and protected information.
9 July 2007
at 11:44 a.m.

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storm (Anonymous) says…

Thank you, denali.
9 July 2007
at 12:02 p.m.

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nettieb (Anonymous) says…

Storm,
Abortions are still legal. There are plenty of options.

Tiller has been pushing the envelope for years. He may (or may not) have pushed to hard or have gotten to complacent about the rules.

By the way, I'm all for women's right to choose, but waiting until you're seven months pregnant because baby-daddy doesn't want to stick around is deplorable, and doctors who like about risk and emotional damage are not taking their oath seriously.
9 July 2007
at 12:05 p.m.

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nettieb (Anonymous) says…

** Correction**

pushed TOO hard and gotten TOO complacent.

That is all.
9 July 2007
at 2:05 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

antisecularman (Anonymous) says:

right_wussie,
Hillarious:you left out the oft mentioned SCOTUS reference. How many times are we going to hear about SCOTUS this or SCOTUS that. Its like an annoying chigger on my SCOTUS, it hurts but when it is scratched it feels sooooo goooood. Oooops.
_____________________________________________________

Are you bothered by the Supreme Court of the United States?

I guess you're just as bothered by the United States Constitution.

And equally bothered by the Holy Bible, as well.

I'm sorry, I forgot that your pre-programmed Neoconservative extremist “minds” (using that word loosely now) can't handle acronyms.

I forgot that y-o-u n-e-e-d e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g s-p-e-l-l-e-d o-u-t f-o-r y-o-u.

right_thinker, it's obvious you and your extremist drones love the political epithets and c/p ing trendy, cutting edge anti-liberal bloggage (Anne Coulter quotes the biggest turn-on). Yes, hard to rise to the level of intelligence of your stock Neoconservative extremist. They know people, know everything, are sure there is some vast “SP conspiracy,” (see, fool? you're not afraid of acronyms yourself! roflmao!!!!) are sure that homosexuality and abortion can be eradicated, all by a few laws passed by the “right” people::.and the rest of us dumb American “sheeple” will bow down to your moral and political superiority. Criminal-enabling hypocrits like you are dragging society down; however, that *will* change.

The wisdom of moderacy, centrism, and libertarianism will eventually prevail. People are simply getting fed up with extremists like you guys. You've become Joke of the Year!

roflmao!!! (another acronym, 'cause I know you love 'em so much)

You guys are extra-snuggly special, especially joined at the hip like you are!

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my post!!! :)))))))))

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org

9 July 2007
at 2:49 p.m.

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nettieb (Anonymous) says…

Wow, Parkay…

First of all, who cares if some woman waits till she's 8 months pregnant to get an abortion then suffers permanent psychological damage from it? I would think you would be all for that. There are billions of other teens who would never do something like that, so you can't blame it on being young and making mistakes.

How many of these late term abortions were from single mothers? How many would have changed their minds if dad had stayed around? I bet almost all of them.

People generally suck. We are selfish, self-preserving creatures by nature. Your “cause” for the babies won't change that.

By the way…
More than likely, Mary was a prostitute and got knocked up. She had to come up with a good story to keep from getting stoned to death. Don't you think she'd have gone to Tiller if she had the option? I do.
9 July 2007
at 2:54 p.m.

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nettieb (Anonymous) says…

If there wasn't a demand for it, doctors wouldn't do it.

Blame the people who seek them. Not the ones who do them.
9 July 2007
at 2:59 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

“AG Morrison or Sedgwick County DA Foulston will subpoena more abortion records from 2004-2007, or we will turn their office over to someone that will.”
_______________________________________________________________

Best of luck to you on that… I just hope that you and the rest of your “we” (which I, most intelligently, am not a part of ) offer up a better option than the one you fooled everyone with in 2002.

Here's a couple of hints:

1) Avoid provocateurs and “media whores”

2) Find somebody who actually practices law, and keeps their law license current

Nail those, and you folks might actually have a chance. :)

Of course, *IF* Tiller's clinic shuts down sometime between now and 2010… well, it will be very instructive to see how the extremist crackpots react to that.

—Ag
9 July 2007
at 3:13 p.m.

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yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“We will have Tiller in prison. We will call those who obstruct justice to account. We will have justice.”

And there will be 70 virgins waiting for you in heaven once you do the deed…
9 July 2007
at 3:58 p.m.

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kmat (Anonymous) says…

right thinker - you are the reason there is a leftist movement. Luckily for us, people like yourself are losing their power, because the moderates in this country finally woke up and smelled the b.s. pouring out of the right thinking white house.

I use my elderly parents to judge the direction our country is going. Never in their long lives did they vote anything but republican, BUT they now see how warped people like you and the the idiots elected to represent you have f*cked this country up and have taken us away from the basic core values we all believe in. They have both said they will vote for anyone, including Hillary (who they hate), just to keep the right wing nutjobs that have hijacked our country out of office. This is from two people that have rarely missed a day of church, work for the church, veterans of the Korean war, who worked their fingers to the bone to make sure their kids and grandkids had a better life, just to see nutjobs like you take their hard work away.

Regarding abortions - unless you are ready to personally adopt all unwanted children in the country, shut the hell up!!!!!! People like you will go on and on about a zygote and fetus, but don't give a rat's ass about those that are born and need help. I also take offense when men think they can preach about what's best for women. Until you've pushed something the size of a bolling ball out your ass after caring it around for almost a year, shut up!!!! Women should make important decisions about their health, not some crotchety, old, closed-minded fart in BFE KS.
9 July 2007
at 3:59 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

“I'm not an extremist. Everyone who tries to understand the misguided idealogy of the extreme left is an extremist? The extremists are the ones I'm trying to understand and help before they hurt themselves or America, if it's not already too late.”
_______________________________________________________

Hhhhmmmmmm… some golden oldies:

When the 9/11 terrorist attacks were brought up, you said “Stuff happens.”

And on a more recent occasion, you equated the lives of American soldiers with the lives of animals, of livestock.

And you're worried about “liberals” “hurting America?”

Fascist hypocrites like you, if given all the power you obsessively crave, would put cameras in every bedroom, crosses and Bibles in every room, and run roughshod over the First Amendment with your religious zealotry. :)

You guys are special as far as I'm concerned and thank you for reading my post. :)))

—Ag
9 July 2007
at 4 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

The obvious answer to all this, of course, is that the extremists at this point are:

A) ignoring this thread completely

or

B) resorting to name-calling, pigeonholing, stereotyping, and partisan hackery, instead of discussing the potential merits of Morrison's case against Tiller

—Ag
9 July 2007
at 4:02 p.m.

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cait48 (Anonymous) says…

In anti-abortion debates it's not Ann Coulter quotes that are drug out and slung around, it's Troy Newman and Operation Rescue. These people will not rest. After they get abortion clinics shut down the next thing on their agenda will be RU-486, the morning after pill and all contraception. Tiller is being persecuted for providing a LEGAL service and performing LEGAL procedures. If he has pushed the legal envelope it sure hasn't been pushed as hard as the way it's been pushed by the current Chimpanzee in Chief.

9 July 2007
at 6:19 p.m.

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crazyks (Anonymous) says…

parkay, you are a total nut…

You'd better watch out if another abortion doctor ever gets shot. You've done so much foaming at the mouth on these boards, the police would probably be investigating YOU…
9 July 2007
at 6:41 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

I know what you mean, crazyks. My “list” is all ready to go. There's quite the plethora of potentially-violent extremists posting here. Should anything terrible befall the either of the Clintons, or Morrison, or Tiller… or, as recently evidenced, to Nancy Boyda… I'll know exactly who to call, and what to show 'em. Political violence is never the answer, even if it means shooting an abortion provider.

The saddest, scariest part is: Many of them mistake their hatred for “patriotism.”

But make no mistake: If they had the opportunity to sacrifice 1 million American lives for the opportunity to once—just once—prove the other side “wrong”… they'd pay the price without so much as batting an eye.

Scary what some of the extremists will stoop too! :o

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
9 July 2007
at 6:59 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

parkay admits:

“They are not shooting anyone anymore…”
________________________________________________

Hehehe. So, parkay, are you saying that Tiller's arms are safe, now?

roflmao!!!

Kinda like the ol' Groucho Marx line:

“So tell me, Mr. G… have you stopped beating your wife yet?”

:D

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
9 July 2007
at 7:08 p.m.

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crazyks (Anonymous) says…

parkay, you still sound like a radical nutjob to me, and far more dangerous to people than Tiller could ever be.

You have made threatening comments on these boards before. Now you're foaming about “we will get Tiller” and “we will get justice”, yada, yada.

Yep. You sound like a threat to me.
9 July 2007
at 8:16 p.m.

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Lynn731 (Anonymous) says…

I just checked out the Centrist website. I find it very interesting, and unlike most political parties, it actually seems to make sense. I am waiting for the website's completion so I can learn more. I urge all of you to at least check it out. Thank you, Lynn
9 July 2007
at 8:33 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Lynn, don't just go with one site… if you Google “Centrist” or “centrism,” there's a LOT of good stuff out there!

There's also the Centrist Coalition…
http://www.centristcoalition.com/

One of my favorite blogs right now is—well, with a name like Donklephant, how can you go wrong?
http://www.donklephant.com/

And take this quiz… you might just surprise yourself…
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

The days of cookie-cutter politics are fading fast…

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
9 July 2007
at 9:21 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

Better to see both sides of an issue, that permanently blind in one eye.

And stupid to boot.

I can understand, though, why you'd be threatened by people who think for themselves, right_thinker.

Your name says it all. You'd certainly never call yourself “self_determined” or “free_thinker,” now, would you?

But you extremists are such swell people, even though you're single-minded drones!

Thanks so much for reading my posts today! :p

—Ag
9 July 2007
at 9:25 p.m.

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cait48 (Anonymous) says…

I have to say I really thought it was a bit over the top that the assault on Tiller was compared to assassination attempts on Saddam Hussein and Adolph Hitler when the man was shot in the course of perfectly legal activity.

9 July 2007
at 9:32 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

More to the topic at hand… I realized something about the photo accompanying this story:

Attorney General Paul Morrison is standing in front of a rather plain-looking easel, or framed poster. In plain black text, on a white background, Morrison is outlining, very specifically, exactly what charges he is bringing against Tiller, and his so-called “colleague,” Dr. Kristin Neuhaus. He's providing text of the specific statute, and the number, as well, so that anyone seeing this can look it up for himself.

I really don't remember Phill Kline being so open and honest about what he was doing. Certainly not to the point of “framing” (pun intended) a case in such specific terms. Of course, if any photos like this of Phill Kline are out there, please bring them forward. Post the links here, for *ALL* to see! :)

I think this shows confidence on the part of Morrison and his staff; clearly, they've studied things very thoroughly, and have carefully surmised their best strategy. A strategy they seem confident enough to share with the citizens of Kansas: Both the citizens that voted for him, as well as those that didn't.

Very… “instructive.” ;)

—Ag
9 July 2007
at 9:38 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

“According to German and Iraqi law both dictators were involved in 'perfectly legal' activities.”
_________________________________________________________________

As would be expected since *THEY* were the ones who *WROTE* the laws at their respective times!

D-U-H!!!

Tiller didn't write Kansas abortion laws—he's merely following them. Following federal statutes, as well (as far as we know, that is).

Abortion should be legal… heavily regulated… and scarce as hen's teeth.

With a focus on sex education, decision-making skills, personal values and awareness, and birth control… abortion could become very, very scarce. So scarce that Tiller wouldn't have sufficient income to keep his building lease.

Nnnaaaaaahhhhh, that's boring. Logic is boring.

Extremists, in particular, find it boring. No fun at all.

—Ag
9 July 2007
at 10:57 p.m.

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bugmenot (Anonymous) says…

You're a disgrace, parkway. I hope no one in your family ever faces a decision like some women do. My guess is someone probably has, but you'll never know about it, safe on your pedestal looking down at everyone you call a “murderer.” You're just a disgrace.
9 July 2007
at 11:06 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

parkay, if we really had been doing all those things… wouldn't we be seeing “numbers”—teen birth rates, teen abortion rates, etc.—similar to that of many of the European nations? Especially The Netherlands?

The Netherlands has not only one of the lowest teenage birth rates in Europe, but also one of the lowest teenage abortion rates in the developed world. Some studies have concluded that it is their open attitudes towards sexuality, contraception and sexuality education along with the inclusiveness of their society.

http://www.unesco.org/courier/2000_07…

http://www.fpanz.org.nz/SITE_Default/…

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/news…

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publ…

From Wikipedia:

“The teenage birth rate in United States was 42 births per 1,000 women aged 1519 in 2002, the highest in the developed world. If all pregnancies, including those which end in abortion or miscarriage, are taken into account, then the total rate in 2000 was 75.4 pregnancies per 1,000 girls. Nevada and the District of Columbia have the highest teen pregnancy rates in the U.S., while North Dakota has the lowest. 95% of teenage pregnancies in the U.S. are unintended; approximately one third end in abortion, one third end in spontaneous miscarriage, and one third will continue their pregnancy and keep their baby.”

“The overall trend in Europe since 1970 has been a decreasing total fertility rate, an increase in the age at which women experience their first birth, and a decrease in the number of births among teenagers. However, in the past, teenage mothers in Europe tended to be married, and therefore were less likely to be perceived as a social issue. Some countries, such as Greece and Poland, retain a traditional model of births to married mothers in their late teens.”

“In contrast, the Netherlands has a low rate of births and abortions among teenagers. Compared to countries with higher teenage birth rates, the Dutch have a higher average age at first intercourse and increased levels of contraceptive use (including the 'double Dutch' method of using both a hormonal contraception method and a condom).”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_i…

If, in fact, the United States is currently employing the same strategies as the Netherlands, with the same fervor and discipline… how do you account for the wide disparity in numbers between the two nations? Why is America's teen birth rate more than 10 times higher than the Netherlands?

How do you account for it?

You've dodged this question in the past… maybe this time you'll dazzle us with your brilliance, parkay. ;)

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
http://www.uscentrist.org
9 July 2007
at 11:17 p.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

right_thinker (Anonymous) stammers in f-f-f-frustration:

'Ag, please do not tell us that you're buying into Morrisons' wimpy approach to Tiller? I know balancing your checkbook is a challenge, but really-come on, get in touch. We know this will wither on the vine and a slap on the wrist-at best. These jokers are all in this together and heads will roll::if a special prosecution does go into play, he fireworks will then start-only then.”
______________________________________________________

On the other hand, it might be your obsessive hatred and rampant extremism that will “wither on the vine.”

I know reality is a difficult thing for extremists like yourself to swallow, right_zealot… but as I've pointed out before: If Morrison gets Tiller for so much as a parking ticket, or jaywalking… he'll have a record of 1-0 against Tiller. Kline? His record will always be 0-2… or 0-3… 0-4, whatever. I kinda stopped counting after a while, so many things go thrown out of court on technicalities.

Maybe it's *YOU* that should stop being dazzled by the glare of O'Reilly's spotlight, the shrill whine of Megan Mossack's tinny voice… and start paying attention to the “black-&-white facts” as displayed by Morrison in the above photograph. Sure, they might be pretty small charges *now*—but you gotta walk before you can run, right? ;)

And don't forget: Al Capone was *NEVER* convicted of murder… or racketeering… or violating prohibition… or any of his other “mob activities.” But he paid for his crimes, nonetheless…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone

I know it's difficult for narrow-minded extremist drones like yourself to “think outside the box”… but it's sometimes that very strategy that wins the battle… and ultimately, the war.

If Morrison loses this case, he'll be no more ineffectual than Phill Kline; on the other hand, if he wins even a small conviction, it'll accomplish something.

Do try to break out of the confines of your mold…

Thanks for reading my post! :)

—Ag
10 July 2007
at 12:04 a.m.

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TJ_in_Lawrence (Anonymous) says…

I don't understand why we have to keep trashing Phil Kline. He isn't in office, he has nothing to do with what is going on today. Why can't you folks that like Morrison so much, just talk about his sucesses. Running Phil Kline down doesn't make Morrison better. What has he done that makes him a good Attorney General? Let's talk about that. I'm tired of listening to the obsessive, “I hate Phil Kline” stuff.
10 July 2007
at 1:34 a.m.

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pelliott (Anonymous) says…

What I want is the same cult group who lost their man, a guy who just happened to be a bad attorney, to bully their way to control of a state agency and make it their puppet, again.
It is past time that the ag of Kansas , all of kansas got to work on the back log of issues left undone from years of Klines' special attention. There are other issues, consumer fraud, identity theft, corporate corruption, water rights etc. etc. They lost the election and they seem to have lost their minds, the reasons Kline LOST was the majority of Kansas wanted a real working AG , not just a pulpit head.
10 July 2007
at 8:18 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

TJ_in_Lawrence (Anonymous) says:

“I don't understand why we have to keep trashing Phil Kline. He isn't in office, he has nothing to do with what is going on today. Why can't you folks that like Morrison so much, just talk about his sucesses. Running Phil Kline down doesn't make Morrison better. What has he done that makes him a good Attorney General? Let's talk about that. I'm tired of listening to the obsessive, “I hate Phil Kline” stuff.”
__________________________________________

I'm guessing, TJ, that this is your very first thread about abortion here on LJW? You've never read any of the threads going back to, say, September of last year?

If you did, you'd clearly see that the people who “keep trashing Phill Kline” are significantly outnumbered by the “trash Paul Morrison” crowd.

Phill Kline may not be in office, “officially,” but that reality hasn't gotten through to many anti-choice extremists. And that includes Kline himself, who continues to insert himself into a debate which no longer directly concerns him. :)

Likewise, running down Paul Morrison doesn't repair any of the damage done by Phill Kline. :)

Maybe you should read a bit more background?

In the meantime, I'll try to do a better job of not bashing Phill Kline. Think some of your contemporaries can take an equally-soft approach to Mr. Morrison? “Set the example” & so forth? :))

—Ag