Archive for Friday, September 8, 2006

Smokers welcome - and legal - at shop

September 8, 2006

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Despite the city's smoking ban, it still is possible to open a business in Lawrence where indoor smoking is allowed.

City leaders have agreed to allow the Lebanese Hookah Bar to open at 730 Mass., even though traditional bars and restaurants have been banned from allowing indoor smoking for the past two years.

The bar's primary business is the selling of Lebanese tobacco, which is then smoked on premises in a water-pipe device called a hookah.

"When we came here from the Middle East, we really wanted to open something for the Lawrence people, but by the time we were ready, the smoking ban came along," said Bassem Chahine, who owns the business with his mother, father and brother. "We had to make sure we could still do it."

The city has said yes, and Scott Miller, a city attorney, said the reason why is simple: The business isn't a bar. It actually is a tobacco shop, and those establishments are exempt from the ban.

"No matter what its name is, the way the business is organized makes it a tobacco shop," Miller said.

The business does not serve alcohol. The only nontobacco products that are sold are chips, hummus, soda, coffee and tea. But Chahine said very few of those products will be sold because customers receive a free drink and order of hummus with each $10 tobacco purchase.

The small amount of nontobacco sales allows the business to still be considered a tobacco shop, because the definition of a tobacco shop allows for an "incidental" amount of nontobacco sales.

Smoking is allowed indoors at the Lebanese Hookah Bar, 730 Mass., where, from left, Hussain Alhai, Aqeel Almer and Ali Ahmed, all Kansas University freshmen from Saudi Arabia, enjoy a smoke of some flavored tobacco and some hummus dip. The new business opened September 7, 2006, and is exempt from the smoking ban for public places in Lawrence because most of its sales are from tobacco.

Smoking is allowed indoors at the Lebanese Hookah Bar, 730 Mass., where, from left, Hussain Alhai, Aqeel Almer and Ali Ahmed, all Kansas University freshmen from Saudi Arabia, enjoy a smoke of some flavored tobacco and some hummus dip. The new business opened September 7, 2006, and is exempt from the smoking ban for public places in Lawrence because most of its sales are from tobacco.

What constitutes incidental, however, is not specifically defined by the city, Miller said. He said if the business began selling a significant amount of nontobacco products, it could be reclassified as a restaurant or coffee shop that would be required to comply with the ban.

Some Lawrence bar and restaurant owners were bewildered by the decision.

"I thought the whole idea behind the smoking ban was to protect employees," said Doug Holiday, who is an owner of Bigg's BBQ Sports Bar, 2429 Iowa. "I've never really understood the rationale behind allowing it in tobacco shops anyway. I think it should be all or nothing."

Allowing tobacco shops to permit smoking is fairly common with smoking bans across the country.

Chahine said he wasn't trying to find a loophole to the city ordinance, and he doesn't want to get wrapped up in a debate about the smoking ban.

"I think it is a good chance for people to really learn a lot about our culture and how we treat people," Chahine said.

Comments

nbnozzy 8 years, 10 months ago

More hypocritical thinking from the city commision and city attorneys. I hope you folks are seriously ready for a change in city government and city administrators. If not, you'll be getting more of the same abuse from them and more.

irishblues 8 years, 10 months ago

This is so bogus I can't believe it. The whole point was the "safe work enviroment for employees" wasn't it? If someone there is drawing a paycheck and paying taxes, then they are "an employee" and should be subject to the same darn rules as everyplace else. What a hypocritial system!
But now, will "tobacco shops" be popping up everywhere? Couldn't bar owners have a humidor instead of a hookah? They could include a cheap cigar with every cocktail? (Just kidding)

KS 8 years, 10 months ago

Wait for the Kansas Supreme Court to decide. Surely some of the Commissioners have had lunches with members of the "Supreme's" to influence thier vote. If it works for education, hey, why not tobacco?

cowboy 8 years, 10 months ago

This is a large steaming pile of hummus !

kung_pao_chicken 8 years, 10 months ago

Hookahs? I thought prostitution was illegal!

jonas 8 years, 10 months ago

Posted by irishblues (anonymous) on September 8, 2006 at 7:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is so bogus I can't believe it. The whole point was the "safe work enviroment for employees" wasn't it?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yeah, that was what it was about, sure it was. It had absolutely nothing to do with the "smoke smells icky, whine whine" coolition. Nothing to do with it at all.

At any rate, it requires a certain high percentage of sales (80%, if I remember from the article the other day) to come from only tobacco, so the idea of tobacco shops popping up like weeds (oops, pun) is sort of ludicris. The market wouldn't support more than a few of them, especially since you can't get liquor at any of them.

A government policy that allows for variance, and some degree of self-initiative? How frighteningly sensible. Who would have ever thought to treat different types of businesses as, well, different?

gphawk89 8 years, 10 months ago

Mmmmmm, flatbread and hummus dip. I miss that about Saudi. Come to think of it, that's the ONLY thing I miss about Saudi. Oh, and the fresh dates. Mmmmmm... (tummy grumbles)

ForThePeople 8 years, 10 months ago

I say good for them....irregardless of the smoking element, the cultural exposure is great. I hope they are successful, though I doubt Lawrence has a big calling for that type of smoke shop.

Tychoman 8 years, 10 months ago

Kung pao that remark made me laugh out loud! Thanks for helping to make my day!

Hookahs...Honestly this hookah isn't mine!

Rationalanimal 8 years, 10 months ago

Nice to know that muslims get preferential treatment in Lawrence.

Tychoman 8 years, 10 months ago

Good joke, animal. I'm assuming you're joking. It was highly amusing, but we prefer jokes about hookahs and how cheap they are :)

ljlook 8 years, 10 months ago

Why are you people crying and worrying about the employees? If they apply for a job at a smoke shop, they know what they are getting into. No one is forcing them to work there. I actually doubt if anyone other than family will be hired there anyway. Do you people always need a reason to cry?

pike 8 years, 10 months ago

Now could a bar pull off what liquor stores do? I mean how they sell "non alcohol" items in a separate store? They could have the regular bar in one shop the right next door a tobacco shop for the smokers.

Confrontation 8 years, 10 months ago

Smoking a hookah is a completely different thing in KC, MO. It'll land you in jail on a murder charge. Beware!!!

ksmoderate 8 years, 10 months ago

Calm down, everyone. Please.

If you like the idea, then bully for you. If you don't like it, then don't go there.

This is a simple story. Quit trying to make it complicated.

fcraig 8 years, 10 months ago

Well this means that all the other bars in Lawrence have to do is just sell tobacco or flavored ciggs. and they can smoke in the bar. I think the city just set precedence for other bar owners.

DeeK 8 years, 10 months ago

"He said if the business began selling a significant amount of nontobacco products, it could be reclassified as a restaurant or coffee shop that would be required to comply with the ban."

"Chahine said he wasn't trying to find a loophole to the city ordinance, and he doesn't want to get wrapped up in a debate about the smoking ban"

** This is his Fing Loop hole! * "customers receive a free drink and order of hummus with each $10 tobacco purchase."

OldEnuf2BYurDad 8 years, 10 months ago

"I thought the whole idea behind the smoking ban was to protect employees,"

Yes, I have to scream "double-standard" here. Either this was to protect people or it wasn't. I also think it's amazingly hypocritical for our civic leaders to allow this because of it's cultural value. What if I think cigar smoking is a part of American culture? Like Marion said, all an attorney has to do now is say "Such-and-such bar is suing for right to allow smoking on the basis of cultural discrimination. Beer drinkers have a long HISTORY of smoking, so its part of their culture to smoke. This law infringes on the cultural heritage of Americans everywhere."

I wonder if 7th Heaven's attorneys will get on the bandwagon as well. I mean, isn't this hookah bar making money by providing BONGS?

ForThePeople 8 years, 10 months ago

Oh Marion....me thinks it's time for your smoke break! I was under the impression that you're all for small business and since you dislike those in the city government so much, I would think you'd be happy that they found a way around the current ordinance. Or is your racism getting in the way?

ksmoderate 8 years, 10 months ago

A hookah is not a bong. A bong is not a hookah. That's like calling a cigarette holder a pipe.

ksmoderate 8 years, 10 months ago

How dare people smoke in a smoke shop? How dare people drink in a bar? How dare people buy gas at a gas station?

ForThePeople 8 years, 10 months ago

ksmoderate

While your at it.....how dare anyone other than blue eyed, blonds own a business in the US of A!

ksmoderate 8 years, 10 months ago

Fair enough on the analogy, Bob. My bad.

But, even though it may have been Dad's intention to bring up the point that some people use bongs and hookahs for smoking pot....it was in poor taste. The last thing we as a society need is for people to believe the misconception that hookahs are for pot smoking.

Plus, this article is about a business that sells products to be smoked in hookahs. Their hookahs will not be used for pot, so why bring it up?

lynnd 8 years, 10 months ago

The thing that bothers me about this is what Scott Miller says about why this was approved: "It isn't a bar."

That statement right there says to me that something about this smoking ban targeted bars all along, not just the idea of saving people from cigarette smoke.

heather5 8 years, 10 months ago

Most of the time and I did say most not all, hookahs are going to be used for smoking pot don't try and say its not. I personally do not smoke, but I know more than one person who owns a hookah and they all use them for smoking pot. Don't be in denial about they are only used for tobacco because I think we all know that's BS. And I am glad that Lawrence is smoke free because I do not like walking around smelling like an ash tray everytime I leave a restaraunt. Or the smell of it while I am trying to eat my food its not appetizing to me to smell smoke while I eat. Also if I wanted to damage my lungs with smoke I could do that myself I wouldn't need anyone elses help. It's called respect and people who don't smoke don't want people blowing it in their faces all the time.

DeeK 8 years, 10 months ago

Posted by offtotheright: "Ya Deek, I believe the Key word here is 'FREE'!" ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I know, & this is why the sales of food & drink will be lower, because he's going to hide them.

Hypotheticaly speeking, in a way unrealistic comparrison, say a car dealer can not sell cars, & if records show that he is profiting on car sales he will get in trouble, well how about he just sells car Keys for 20K & tosses in a free car, but no sale of cars on the books. This is a loophole!

bad example, but just trying to make things clear.

Rationalanimal 8 years, 10 months ago

To allow one business owner to smoke in his shop and another based on the language of the ordinance is a prima facie example of poor draftsmenship of legislation.

Also, from a logical standpoint, the intent of the original ordinance is contradicted by the exception. That is, if the intent of the legislation is to protect from the ills of smoke inhalation, then the grounds for allowing a smoke shop exempt because they have a high quantity of business from smoking is contradictive to a degree in proportion to the amount of smoking going on in the business. Someone screwed up and are now trying to pass their mistake off as a cute technical exception. A screw-up is a screw-up is a screw-up is a screw-up.

Godot 8 years, 10 months ago

DeeK, you have it so right!

Bar owners should sell cigarettes for $5 or $6 apeice, and include a free beer or drink with the purchase.

They could even have "happy hours," under this arrangement, discounting the cost of the cigarettes from 4 to 7 or something.

This is great news for the bars.

Godot 8 years, 10 months ago

"I'm almost certain that it is against the law in Kansas to give away beer/booze at a bar."

But it won't be a bar. It will be a smoke shop.

kujeeper 8 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Godot 8 years, 10 months ago

Louise's Smoke Shop - has a nice ring to it.

ThomasJefferson 8 years, 10 months ago

After the novelty wears off, this business will close its doors post haste.

Godot 8 years, 10 months ago

"It is illegal to give away free alcohol."

You must seek the "greys" in the law and exploit them to your advantage - it is just a matter of semantics, as our Lebanese Hookah Bar owners have so ably demonstrated.

I see only men in the photo of the hookah bar. Are women allowed?

prioress 8 years, 10 months ago

As the Bard said: "Much ado about nothing."

ksmoderate 8 years, 10 months ago

Heather5:

Remember, please, that the hookahs in question are part of a business. They will not be used for smoking pot.

(At least during business hours?... HA HA HA)

BlondeTiger 8 years, 10 months ago

So, you all are complaining that this is an unsafe work environment, this business was opened by a family and the people that work there are family and they are all over the age of 18 and they CHOSE to work there. So your argument about it being unsafe to the workers really doens't work there. This is a Hookah bar and hookah's are a tabacco smoking accessory so it makes sense. You can't bring your kids in there, or anyone under the age of 18 for that matter, so screw your argument over the fact that your kids life is in danger. This is a haven for ADULTS that smoke tobacco, and if you don't like it THEN DON'T GO BECAUSE YOU REALLY HAVE NO REASON TO.

prioress 8 years, 10 months ago

Happy hour, Hells Bells........they argued for years in the legislature before they would allow stores to sell cold beer. Most of the midwestern states (where folks tend to drink as much as anyone else but like to play the "we're purer than thou game") are silly about this as well. I was in Oklahoma a while back. One could buy a 40oz but not a quart of beer (illegal in the store but available for purchase across the street at 7-11) and the little airline bottles (another long debate in KS) were legal, but had to be purchased in six packs and couldn't be sold individually.

acg 8 years, 10 months ago

No everyone wouldn't be cool with it swbsow, because Lawrence is full of the whiniest people in the world. You can give them everything they want and they would still piss and moan about how this person is offending them or that person is smoking near them or that roundabout in in their way and they're not smart enough to navigate around it, blah blah blah. What a bunch of whining babies. I say you go for it, Lebanese dudes. Next time I'm on Mass I'm going to stop by that place and give them some business.

KsTwister 8 years, 10 months ago

So, you can have a Lebanese but not an American smoke/snack bar? What about the Irish,German,Italian,Mexican,French,British,Canadian....? Now its a legal can of worms that was opened.

Godot 8 years, 10 months ago

730 Mass is in a suite upstairs, above Vermont Street Bar B Que, sharing the same lobby with Cafe Beautiful. I wonder what arrangements have been made to contain the smoke so that it does not foul the air in the lobby or cafe upstairs, into the stairwell or into the restaurant downstairs?

How is this arrangement any different than having a separate smoking room in a bar?

Danielle Brunin 8 years, 10 months ago

The_Original_Bob: So, if I opened up the American Smoke Shop in Riyadh and sold Marlboro Lights and Bud Light that'd be considered American tradition and hailed as multicultural? Didn't think so.

Actually, if you went to the Middle East with Marlboro Lights, you'd be a hero (The Bud Light, not so much). Almost every male in the Middle East smokes and they love American cigarettes, especially Marlboro lights, as my brother found out when we visited there. They are kind of pricey though. In Egypt, for example, Cleopatra cigarettes, the most popular brand, cost about 2 Egyptian pounds (=$0.32) whereas Marlboro lights in Egypt cost about 16 Egyptian pounds (about $2). In a country where the average Egyptian makes about $30 a month, those are a little expensive. However, as an American, if you offer someone in Egypt a Marlboro Light, you will be their friend for life. This holds true for pretty much all of the Middle East. If the U.S. wants there to be peace in the Middle East, rather than exporting democracy, export cigarettes. Maybe everyone would relax. Cigarettes for oil, there's an idea.

As for this hookah bar, they have some cool artwork, clothes, etc., and I love the idea of a hookah bar, but their location is atrocious. I seriously doubt it will last very long unless the atmosphere is fabulous and the prices are very reasonable, which I doubt.

gphawk89 8 years, 10 months ago

TOB: "So, if I opened up the American Smoke Shop in Riyadh and sold Marlboro Lights and Bud Light that'd be considered American tradition and hailed as multicultural? Didn't think so."

There's a nice Harley Davidson outlet in Riyadh. Pretty popular place and gets a lot of business. It's hard do imagine a more "American" business than a HD dealership. So maybe an American smoke shop in Riyadh wouldn't go over as badly as you think. But, the Bud Light part of your idea would go over quite badly with the Mutawa.

rpm 8 years, 10 months ago

So...if Free State Brewery had a tobacco shop and GAVE a couple of free beers to all who bought $10 worth of tobacco and smoked it on premises, that would be ok, right? I mean, their primary sales would come from tobacco not food or drink sales.

Hmmmmm.....?

Rememer that the ban states that smoking would be allowed indoors if the smoker was part of a skit in a play that required the character to smoke. So, why not hand out 'scripts' to bar patrons when they come in and have a stage area of some sorts, so when a 'character' feels like smoking they grab their script, head over to the stage area and have a smoke while reciting their character's lines?

Tychoman 8 years, 10 months ago

Jeeper that'd be funny if Lebanon had an A.Q. presence. A better joke would have involved HZB or some other group. Nice try though, props.

Apparently smoking a hookah is not only legal, but encouraged! Those hookahs at 7th and Pennsylvania betta watch out! Hookahs are goin' down......town...

cmdln 8 years, 10 months ago

ljook: Why are you people crying and worrying about the employees? If they apply for a job at a smoke shop, they know what they are getting into. No one is forcing them to work there. I actually doubt if anyone other than family will be hired there anyway. Do you people always need a reason to cry?

And before the ban people who applied to work in a restaurant or bar knew what they were in for. If the establishment allowed smoking they could be sure they would have customers smoking in close proximity to them. The ban makes no sense. now smokers have to open up a shop where basically all you can do is smoke (if they want to smoke in a public place other than outside). Yes they can get drinks and hummace but if sales of either go too high the bar will be re-classified and no longer will people be allowed to smoke in it. Maybe we should outlaw drinking in any place thats sales are not comprised of 80% alcohol. Or maybe outlaw sales of food in any place thats food sales do not comprise 80%. Wow we are on track to have a shop for everything you want to do! That is great until you want to do a couple things at one time like have a beer with dinner, or have a smoke with a beer at a bar (oh wait its already gone).

cmdln 8 years, 10 months ago

logrithmic: Posted by logrithmic (anonymous) on September 8, 2006 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal) No smoking in bars and restaurants. I love it. I can listen to live music and not have poison blown in my face. Let the addicts have their tobacco shop.

Posted by logrithmic (anonymous) on September 8, 2006 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal) Addicts addicts everywhere. Cigarette companies increasing the nicotine in your cigarettes and yet you still want the public to get hooked in the bars and restaurants - so we can all share your fate - coughing and hacking to death in a hospital, your lungs eaten up to the point they look like something you'd find in a toilet. Oh yeah!!!!

Hurmm, I don't like your nasty non-smoker friendly attitude. It is poison to my self esteem. Maybe we should ban you from being able to express anything in a public forum! Seriously, If there are soo many people that love the smoking ban why not lift it and open up a couple (owner decided) restaurants and bars that are no smoking. You will make a killing because there will only be a few if the ban is lifted so all the non-smokers can have their restaurants and bars in which the owner decides it is a sound financial decision to create such an environment. What you don't like separate but equal? At least with the ban lifted you can choose or not choose to separate yourself. However the smokers (at the moment) have to resort to opening a shop which must maintain 80% tobacco sales in order to stay clear of the ban, we don't have the choice of opening a restaurant that allows smoking.

Well I suppose I could open up a restaurant that only sells tobacco and gives away a meal with it. I wonder if the city would let me have a liqour license in a tobacco shop? Could I even get away with giving away alcohol with proper ID and purchase of tobacco?

KS 8 years, 10 months ago

For once Marion and I agree. The ban will be overturned by the Kansas Supreme Court. It is just a matter of time.

fcraig 8 years, 10 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

KS 8 years, 10 months ago

Hey all! Just go to the bar over in Perry. Smoking is allowed and legal and indoors. That is if you can get in. I understand it is pretty crowded now. Somebody needs to put in a double wide and open a tavern over there. Expand that economy.

cutny 8 years, 10 months ago

Geezus Marion!!! Enough Already. Surely you do not flatter yourself by thinking that anyone reads your comments do you? The drivel, GAWD!!! Back in the day you were what's known as a "penny a liner." Pat yourself on the back and CALL IT A DAY. Ever thought doing some volunteer work or something? dude...get a hobby. Your devotion to educating the good people of Lawrence is misguided at best, and intolerable at worst.

mom_of_three 8 years, 10 months ago

kujeeper - very insensitive remark....
I am sure the owner has enough problems with bigotry without you adding to it.

as_I_live_and_breathe 8 years, 10 months ago

Posted by ksmoderate (anonymous) on September 8, 2006 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

But, even though it may have been Dad's intention to bring up the point that some people use bongs and hookahs for smoking pot....it was in poor taste. The last thing we as a society need is for people to believe the misconception that hookahs are for pot smoking


I thought Hookahs were for smoking opium.....and hash er hashish, (not corned beef, you fry that)

BunE 8 years, 10 months ago

Jebus Marion,

Were you wronged by the Lebanese? Are you Israeli? Are you mad that Hezbullah handed the IDF their A$$? Did a beautiful Lebanese woman dump your pasty self? Do you hate Cedars? Do you you just want to get rid of the A-rabs? Are you Syrian? Did the lebanese plot to force you out of business?

Or are you just a sad old man?

Tychoman 8 years, 10 months ago

Marion it's not a bar. It's a tobacco shop and tobacco shops are (ironically) exempt from the smoking BAN. This is perfectly legal, get over yourself.

blessed3x 8 years, 9 months ago

So the bars need to sell beer for $.05 and a pack of smokes (required with the beer purchase) for $3.00. Then the required amount of sales would come from tobacco and voila! its a tobacco store, not a bar. Simple. It works for ebay.

madmatmax 8 years, 9 months ago

I do not see the big deal all of a sudden with tobacco shops allowing smoking and relating it to the hookah bar. It has already been done before in Lawrence. The "loophole" has already been exploited. Why this article received so much more attention than another is illogical. At Centro Cigars you can buy a membership or pay a daily fee to smoke cigars inside the club, "and overhead cabinets for members to stash their own scotch, brandy, Madeira or other spirits they might like to have around." So you have the liquor covered too.

beatrice 8 years, 9 months ago

The smoking ban has as much chance of being overturned as Marion has of running a successful business. Quit your whining already.

ottr: As I've said countless times before, just because you own a business does not mean you can do whatever you want within that business. I can just see you arguing to allow knife dodging contests in your bar -- hey you are the owner and if people want to put their lives on the line to go there, why not? Games of bottle-rocket tag inside, why not? Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. I guess you will just have to convert to Islam and open a hookah shop.

classclown 8 years, 9 months ago

Sell cigarettes for 4 dollars along with the purchase of a beer for 5 cents.

cmdln 8 years, 9 months ago

Posted by classclown (anonymous) on September 8, 2006 at 5:33 p.m. (Suggest removal) Sell cigarettes for 4 dollars along with the purchase of a beer for 5 cents.

Yeah its the happy meal for people who want to keep their rights! Buy a value fix! One pack of smokes, 3 beers, and a burger. Smokes =10 bucks, Beer = 3 bucks, burger = hummace delivery from the Hookah Bar since apparently its the only place that can get around the serving food and smoking in the same place ordinance.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Doesn't Lawrence have enough hookahs? I hate driving by a hookah with the kids in the car saying "Avert your eyes, children! It's a hookah!" They're so unsightly.

Not near as many hookahs as Topeka, believe you me dangles Groucho Marx cigar

Hookah is today's magic word.

beatrice 8 years, 9 months ago

Oh, and did I fail to mention how oh so cool those guys look sucking on those smoking sticks. Way way hip and trendy. Addicts are cool.

Carmenilla 8 years, 9 months ago

Ridiculous poppycock! Is anyone complaining about "Smoker Friendly" and "Tobacco Express". They are smoke shops AND you can smoke in them. Shocking!

Put that in yer pipe and simmah down.....

Carmenilla 8 years, 9 months ago

And logicsound04, there is plenty of whining from the non-smokers as well......

You people are so hilariously entertaining!

Carmenilla 8 years, 9 months ago

Lastly, seventh paragraph down in the article, I believe....

"The business does not sell alcohol."

End of argument. Maybe you all need a puff of something to untwist yer panties!

cowboy 8 years, 9 months ago

Whats next ? how bout a local opium den !

Carmenilla 8 years, 9 months ago

You DO get to eat in a smoke-free environment now. Lawrence is smoke-free.

These folks have a smoke-shop not a cafe. Are you gonna go in and order hummus and ask for the non-smoking section? You KNOW its a smoke-shop. WTF?

Carmenilla 8 years, 9 months ago

That is, Lawrence is smoke-free in bars and restaurants. But not in smoke-shops. Thus the term, S-M-O-K-E-S-H-O-P.

stophammertime 8 years, 9 months ago

Seriously, you smokers are some deluded folks. Never mind that whole CANCER thing that is a threat to smokers as well as non-smokers. Lawrence should open an asbestos bar...all the smokers can go hang out there.

Carmenilla 8 years, 9 months ago

Let the whining begin...

No one is forcing ANY non-smoker to go to this smokeshop. So why does it matter so much that it exists?

I don't drink much alcohol. You don't find me b*tching about drunk people in bars. Heck they might kill someone with second-hand drunkenness (DUIs). Complaining about smokers when it won't even affect you is silly. We do still live in a free country, right?

ForThePeople 8 years, 9 months ago

Temporary hijack alert.... Hey there stophammertime....glad to see you are back watching whats going on here in larryville. I suspect it won't be to long before there will be more news about, you know who/what. Keep watching.....would love to see you comment on some of that action again.

ForThePeople 8 years, 9 months ago

Almost went there today...alas didn't have enough time...definately gonna check it out asap. Wonder if they will be open in the evenings....out for a beer, then hit the hookah bar for a smoke...LOL!

Beverly 8 years, 9 months ago

Diversity is our strength. We should not be so CRITICAL of other cultures and new ideas. American was built on innovation and open mindedness. Are you so insecure that you mush ridicule and innocent business. If the smoking offends you, use your legs and walk away. If a train was coming what would you do? A police society is doomed to extinction. Just ask George Orwell or former USSR. Have a good evening and please think before you speak or type negative karma.

as_I_live_and_breathe 8 years, 9 months ago

Posted by macon47 (anonymous) on September 8, 2006 at 7:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

do hookrahs have hookers? @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ everyplace has hookers, only the currency changes....

funkdog1 8 years, 9 months ago

OK, Marion, just so you know, there's a cigar shop in west Lawrence, on Wakarusa Street -- Centro Cigars -- and one can join their private smoking club there, and smoke in the shop. They've been operating for several months now. As far as I know, the place is owned by a couple 'o' white guys.

http://www.centrocigars.com/

Personally, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the smoking ban. Thank you Commissioners! I don't have any problem, however, with a tobacco-only store being allowed to have smoking.

What bothers me about the hookah place is that they serve food. That seems iffy. (God forbid, I'm going to have to agree with Marion on something.)

KsTwister 8 years, 9 months ago

Does seem that some out of business restraurants (ie Hereford House to name one),one could have withheld alcohol and served food to smokers who at one time kept their business booming.Today is quite amusing,three steps forward;four steps back. Well, think I better start saving for the next city lawsuit.

jofuss_malone 8 years, 9 months ago

how very typical..

i cant belive that people can be so threatend and scared of things they do not understand.

i know that this isnt really "smoker ban related", but for all of you hookah-bashers, this ones for you.

hookahs are wonderful. if your a smoker, then do yourself a favor and go try one at the new shop. you will not be dissapointed. i myself do not smoke cigarettes, but hookahs are extreamly tasty.

if your not a smoker, then leave it alone. anyone smoking a hookah in that shop is not poisoning you in any way so why the heck are you even making an ordeal out of it? although i would still recomend you try a hookah before you talk down it, which sadly enough will probably never happen.

and a few things you need to know. being a hookah owner, i can definatly say that it is much CLEANER then smoking cigarettes. this is because the tobacco is being heated by a coal, which doesnt burn nearly as much residue. your pretty much vaporizing the moistness of the "shisha", which is the correct term for the tobbacco that is being smoked. they make shisha by soaking the tobacco in fruit molasses (sp?) and pretty much, yes you are smoking vapors. flames never touch the tobacco. its all heated from the coal that sits about half an inch away from the tobacco. that is why its not harsh when you smoke it. not to mention that you are also filtering the "smoke" through water which cleans the smoke even more. the smoke even evoparates and does not linger in the air, unlike cigarettes and the like.

it seriously doesnt hurt to RESEARCH things YOURSELF before you form an argument. otherwise you look stupid. and sadly enough, it appears that there are a great majority of stupid people in this world :P

thats all im going to say.

now begins the narrow-minded bashings of my post. yippiee!!

jonas 8 years, 9 months ago

holy crap! Carmenilla, where ya been?

Godot 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion, you are right on. I hope to see the lawsuits fly. But I don't want to pay, as a Lawrence taxpayer, to defend the suits that the City will, without a doubt, lose.....

Ah, cruel fate......

geekin_topekan 8 years, 9 months ago

What's all this fuss I've heard about lesbian hookers?_Emily Latella

trinity 8 years, 9 months ago

roflmao@geekin's comment. love me some emily latella!

Kelly Powell 8 years, 9 months ago

if this causes the ban to revoked the city comission can wash their hands and say they were just trying to broaden peoples cultural experience....If they would allow bars to be private clubs if they want smoking there would be no problem.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Keep the ban FOREVER.

This place is legal, Marion, get over yourself. It's a tobacco SHOP, not a food service establishment!

justsomewench 8 years, 9 months ago

i wanna go!

(sorry, stophammertime, i gave up worrying about whether i looked "cool" for other people some time back.)

too bad i quit smoking. damnitall.

stophammertime 8 years, 9 months ago

Actually, the only reason I posted in the first place was because people were getting back into the bar/smoking issue again. I could care less about what people do in a smoke bar...I won't be attending a smoke bar because I don't smoke...and there are many wonderful places to eat hummus and chips in Lawrence and beyond. Besides all that business...If some dumba$$ that doesn't smoke wants to work ina smoke bar, they should be prepared for the consequences. Same goes for the fool that chooses to work in a bar where smoking is allowed and then decides to complain about the smoke. However, now that bars are becoming smoke-free (as they should have been as welll as all establishments...BESIDES smoke shops) I can actually go and enjoy myself. I don't have to take 1,000,000mg's of Clariton the next day or cough of brown goo the next week...it's awesome. I'm not sure that smokers are aware of how bad it is for some non-smokers. That's all I'm saying.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion it specifically lists tobacco retail stores in 802-J I believe, and how they're exempt even if they sell a little bit of food because the food is "merely incidental."

They're in the clear, the ban should stay.

justsomewench 8 years, 9 months ago

no harm taken, stopham. when i quit worrying about looking cool to others was, concidentally, most likely when i lost the ability to. ha!

geekin_topekan 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion wrote, "Were I in a good mood about this matter, I would file a Brief Amicus Curiae..."


Sorry Marion but as English as the official language of the United States you will not be able to file this Latin motion. What would this motion mean in "American"?

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Whatever, Marion. Show me where Sow and I are mistaken. Or just get over that the smoking ban is saying, like it should, and that it IS constitutional and legal. Were it NOT legal, it wouldn't be a LAW.

cerealmom 8 years, 9 months ago

As the wife of an Attorney it was easy to clarify the question here. What the Marquis says is correct about the Amicus Curiae. A person who files Amicus Curiae may later become a party to the initial suit. As I understand this is how Class action suits can develope from a single filing without refiling the original motion.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion, I couldn't find the ordinacne you were referring to. I didn't know the skin condition was so organized. Howver, I read the ordinance from the link you provided, and swbsow and I pointed out where the ordinance authorizes this hookah bar.

Of course I can't read in the Englich language. I've never even heard of the Englich language. Anyone know where Englich is? Holy crap I wonder if I can major in it.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

I didn't know you could start parties in court. I wonder what Ruth Bader Ginsburg's like when she's smashed.

lovineveryminuteofit 8 years, 9 months ago

The Fates are dispesable just like ex's they only have the power in which we give them. I have been told there is nothing to worry about as right prevails no matter what interference is enlisted. I shall endevor upon my path to bliss and it is my sicere wish that those who mock others pay their dues.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Figures the Fates were women. Just kidding, Moira.

Wow thanks for wasting a post and not admitting you're wrong, Marion. It's what you're best at.

Night.

ForThePeople 8 years, 9 months ago

The Smoking Ban is dead.

Thanks.

Marion.

Cool....perhaps you'd like to be the first to test you theory, at the bar or resturant of your choice and let us all know how it turns out.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Serving food at the hookah shop is "merely incidental." Refer to the parts of the ordinance that swbsow and I mentioned hours ago.

It's legal, both the hookah shop and the smoking ban. Get over it.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

It's a tobacco shop, not a bar.

The ordinance lists tobacco shops specifically as exempt, even if the serving of food is "merely incidental." And the hookah shop is most definitely a tobacco shop, not a food service establishment.

Look up the references swbsow and I pointed out AGES ago.

You have lost. Have a mediocre day.

selene 8 years, 9 months ago

The ordinance says the food says cannot go beyond a certain percent. The serving of Alcohol has nothing to do with it. It is the same concept of a private club, except the private club was required to sell a crtain amount in food sales. Here the food sales cannot surpass a certain amount. If these people were really on the up and up they would not charge for food & drinks at all. There is some speculation in my mind when they sell $2.00 worth of tabacco for $10 and throw in Hummus and a drink. If you buy this line have I got some dals for you.

selene 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion This is what I refer to

What constitutes incidental, however, is not specifically defined by the city, Miller said. He said if the business began selling a significant amount of nontobacco products, it could be reclassified as a restaurant or coffee shop that would be required to comply with the ban.

ForThePeople 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion....I hope your right...really I do! Frankly I'd like to see the smoking ban revisited, being a smoker myself. My feelings are, that at the very least, bars should be allowed to have smoking at the discretion of the owner! Then there would be both smoking and non-smoking bars and hopefully everyone would be happy...though I doubt it.

amanda_lazer 8 years, 9 months ago

I don't give a hoot about the hookah place or the restaurants. I would just like to enjoy a cold beer with my friends and voluntarily smoke a cig. Is that too much to ask?

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

Marion, I think your axe is sharp enough. Admit that this hookah shop is legal, the smoking ban is legal and labels perfectly well that this is not a food service establishment.

ForThePeople 8 years, 9 months ago

All this hookah hoopla.....caused me to have a dream about it last night. In the dream it was quite a place and even Marion was there partaking and enjoying himself....LOL! Yikes....I'm definately spending toooooooo much time on this silly site!

ForThePeople 8 years, 9 months ago

swbsow

Just to play "devils" advocate here for a minute...LOL! After much pondering of the wording, it could be misconstrued as a "public place where food is prepared for service on the premises". The wording in the ordinance is sketchy at best. Though more often than not I totally disagree with Marion....I gotta say on this one he does have a point....even if he comes across the wrong way.

There is obviously some things about the ordinance that need to be revised and the way it is written would be a good start!

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

It's not vague. It's legal.

Get over it.

Tychoman 8 years, 9 months ago

When Monty Python says it, it's funny.

When Marion says it, not so much.

davisnin 8 years, 9 months ago

Dear Marion, I was merely commenting that I, apparently unlike you, don't have the time to read 300 comments of people arguing the same points over and over. If you 'learn' from the ranting disjointed arguments in this forum I pity you.

Person A AGAINST the smoking ban: "wasn't this supposed to be about the health of the employees, the city council is full of it"

Person B AGAINST the smoking ban: "your an idiot! people have the choice of where to work, they know the risks and you shouldn't force your views on me!!"

Person C ambiguous stance on ban: "I'm an A-hole and you're an idiot"

Thanks

Davisnin

davisnin 8 years, 9 months ago

Oh and thanks one_more_bob for getting it right.

Linda Endicott 8 years, 4 months ago

Wow...I'm impressed...how far back did you have to search to find this thread?

lounger 8 years, 4 months ago

im proud lawrence has a variety of cultures. its pathetic that muslem bashing is in our town. so i say to you people who cant handle the variety of cultures to please exit the town..forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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