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Archive for Thursday, January 6, 2011

Statehouse Live: Gov.-elect Brownback urges Kansans to pray for elected leaders

January 6, 2011

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— Gov.-elect Sam Brownback on Thursday urged Kansans to pray for elected leaders on Sunday as part of an inaugural prayer service.

"I know elected leaders, including myself, deeply appreciate the prayers of Kansans from all faith traditions," Brownback said.

"In this difficult economic time, all of us need divine guidance in making tough choices for our families and our communities. I ask that you please remember state leaders during your time of worship this week," he said.

Brownback, a Republican, will be sworn into office Monday as the 2011 legislative session starts.

Brownback and Lt.Gov.-elect Jeff Colyer are holding an inaugural prayer service on Sunday at MidAmerica Nazarene University in Olathe.

Comments

MarchSadness 3 years, 11 months ago

Politics and religion have no place together. Keep your fairy tales to yourself Gov. Brownback. Jesus hates you!

Jimo 3 years, 11 months ago

My prayer for the next four years is that Sam will be accepting of wearing the robes of Caesar and stop playing dress up as God.

JustAsking 3 years, 11 months ago

Isn’t there a clause in the constitution regarding the separation of church and state???

Somehow related to the negative influence of the Church or England on England government in the 1700’s?

Get religion out of the business of government!!

Why should they remain "non-profit"?

It's time to eliminate the tax exemption for religious organizations in the state. They hold sizable tracks of the land and should pay local property tax. In addition, they should pay sales tax and all "donations" to these organizations should be treated as income and be taxed.

This would help everone and reduce the taxes on the businesses, rich, poor and the middle class. Also, it could go a long way toward reducing the budget shortfall.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't think there's anything in the constitution forbidding citizens from praying for their elected officials - in fact, the first amendment protects their right to do so.

"All men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator, ..."

As far as tax-exempt status goes, I might agree - it should at least be discussed.

jade 3 years, 11 months ago

The first amendment protects government from the grasp of religious extremism while protecting the rights of individuals to practice it.

StateCynic 3 years, 11 months ago

"Isn’t there a clause in the constitution regarding the separation of church and state??? "

The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state. The phrase was commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish a specific church (similar to what the British had with their Church of England).

kcxd45 3 years, 11 months ago

Actually you find no where in the Constitution "A separation of Church and State". As a matter of fact what the constitution says in the 1st Ammendment is: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establisment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

For over a hundred years, Sunday Christian Church Services were held within the chambers of the House of Representatives at the US Capitol Building. Most of our founding fathers attended these services. Its funny that they certainly saw no problem with it.

All you anti-religious nut-jobs who are in the midst of collecting your tar and feathers can now and go home now and sulk in your self absorbed, intelectual superiority.

Jimo 3 years, 11 months ago

Yes, the 1st Amendment creates a separation of church and state. Thank you for quoting it, even if you fail to understand its import.

And the Supreme Court meet in the Capitol building until 1935. I suppose we're to assume from this fact that the doctrine of separation of powers is a fraud? Believe it or not, before modern wealth, prior generations did not have the luxury of building separate structures for each and every specialized purpose nor the luxury of time created by modern conveniences to allow the waste of hours traveling far in the course of day. People lived where they were and made use of the facilities that existed. Unsurprisingly, on land dedicated to building of future governmental structures, no churches existed (nor did a Congress comprised of anti-religious nut-jobs appropriate public money to building any). People well into the 1820s complained that there were no churches in DC (there were a few, just none very convenient). It was not until the promise of future wealth was realized that the need and custom of Capitol church services were abandoned by our ancestors in the 19th century by the construction of much of what we today see as urban Washington City and the filth of muddy avenues finally get paved over to make transportation reliable and efficient (Hint: anti-religious nut-jobs had nothing to do with it).

Could the Capitol still host church services? Presumably, yes. (Or weddings. Or funerals. Or a concert by Justin Biber.) Much like Congress opens with prayers (including Muslim and Hindu prayers). Can the U.S. government merge public affairs with religious worship? Absolutely, positively, as ordained by the Founding Fathers, no.

You anti-religious nut-jobs that insist on soiling religion with the filth of politics can go sulk in your insipid duncehats.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

How is Congress opening with prayers not merging public affairs with religious worship?

JustAsking 3 years, 11 months ago

So??? Your last paragraph is a really Christian like!! Surely you have violated one your sins!! Oh, I forgot, sometime today you’ll be asking someone for forgiveness and everything will then be just fine.

For thousands of years people thought the lighting and thunder were "god's" tools. For hundreds of years the “doctors” let blood to cure people disease. Now we know both beliefs were incorrect. Just because it has happened in the past, doesn’t make it right. Just because a group of people have used a government facility doesn’t make it right. Don’t use this as justification for what you say is "right".

When to the other "faiths" get access to the government property (US Capital Building). Which one should be first? How each “faith” get one Sunday. Of course only American citizens are welcome. Oh, I forgot, there’s only one true faith. The one you believe in. The rest of the people are wrong. And after all, your “faith” got there first.

I’ve hear it said "More people have died in the name of their god, or what he/she was a alleged to have said, than for any other cause in history”. That can’t be good!!

The “nut jobs” are the one pushing their “what is right is what I believe” on everyone else. If you don’t believe as I do, YOUR WRONG! You must agree with “Topeka Fred” and his bunch of nut jobs. Do they represent what you feel is “RIGHT”.

kcxd45 3 years, 11 months ago

I understand it quite well. The part of the First Amendment that I quoted states that the Government can not create or endorse a state religion. It also means that the Govenment may not keep a citizen from exercising their religion as they see fit. It does not mean that the mere mention of prayer by an elected official is breaking some law. Brownback has every right under our constitution to request from the citizenry for their prayers to guided by Divine Providence. If you do not believe in God, this request neither "breaks your leg nor picks your pocket". So why then do you care one way or another.

To JustAsking: You're right, it wasn't very Christian like. More Hail Mary's for me. "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling!" Mea culpa, Mea culpa, Mea maxima culpa!

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

Sorry, Fred Phelps and his clan are Democrats. No place for them in the current administration.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 11 months ago

Which explains why Fred Phelps and his clan have only involved themselves in two recent political races -- supporting Republican Phill Kline for AG and opposing Democrat Steve Six for AG.

Big time Democrats, that's what they look like to me. No place for Phill Kline supporters in the current administration, right?

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

It's all about the registration, amigo. Phelps ran for governor and senator (pulled 30%, too) as a Dem. Freddie Junior has even been a delegate to the Dem national convention and held fundraisers for Al Gore and Joan Finney at his house (pics on request). If they're suddenly a part of the GOP party structure, someone might want to tell the GOP.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 11 months ago

Wow, so in 1998 they were Democrats? Very relevant. In 1998, wasn't Dick Morris still a Democrat? Now, um, not so much as you probably know from Fox News.

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't know squat from Fox News, but since you brought up Kline's race 9 years ago as 'recent' (he received $500 from a grandson of Phelps, Benjamin), I find it a little odd that the man himself running for governor as a Dem a single cycle prior is somehow of no account. Not that I blame you. If he was in my party, I'd be all embarrassed, too.

By the way, who's this suave and debonair worldsaver? http://www.lcrga.com/news/Fred-Phelps-Al-Gore-Westboro-Baptist-Church-God-Hates-Fags/200010251159.shtml

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 11 months ago

In whose party?

The Kline contribution in question is an issue from the 2006 election. Regardless, it would appear that between 1998 and 2002 the Phelps family had a conversion. Hate to break it to ya, but stop clinging to the past old timer.

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

Yes, indeed. Well, as soon as Derek Schmidt or Sarah Palin have a fundraiser at his house, would you let me know? I'm sure the Log Cabin Republicans would love to update their photo album. Fabulous, thanks.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 11 months ago

I prayed, but they are still in Topeka, they have not been smote yet for their false witness.

somedude20 3 years, 11 months ago

I do not understand how people can still believe that man and dinosaur walked on the earth at the same time; furthermore I can not uderstand how people would cast their vote for a person who believes that the movie "Caveman" is a documentary.

Parting the water, getting preggers without sex/ artificial insemination(although I have used the line "the holy ghost is about to enter you"), a boat with two of every animal, turning a fish into thousands (am interested about the magic that made all of the wine)

kcxd45 3 years, 11 months ago

You forgot creating all the heavens and the earth....including all the rules of science discovered so far and the science which has yet to be discovered....the design of the atomic structure, all the elements, the beautiful elegant design of a strand of DNA.....all of this out of nothing.

Everything you mention is almost paltry against this. Don't you think?

By the way....where did all that matter which exists in the universe come from? Both before and/or after the big bang. Hmmm?

somedude20 3 years, 11 months ago

In a Seinfeld voice: what is the deal with invisible matter? if it matters then why make it invisible? do the gods want us to trip over it so they can have a good laugh at us? I don't get it

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

According to theory, there is no "before" the big bang, since time was created then.

There's a mind-boggling thought to try to wrap your mind around.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 11 months ago

If creation is just too wonderful to have been created without a creator, the creator must be even more wonderful. Which begs the question-- who created the creator?

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Big bang theory begs the question - what happened "before" then, and if nothing, then how did something happen, but not in the space time continuum, since those were created then?

Catalano 3 years, 11 months ago

Sam's a C-Streeter all the way...even back here in Kansas. I just wonder if I could get him to wash my feet sometime during his tenure. Maybe he could have a "Governor Washes Feet of Constituents Day".

C-Street, you ask? Google Jeff Sharlet.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 11 months ago

Too bad Brownback didn't belong to a church where the pastor declared "dog damn America". Liberals seem to be okay with that flavor of religion.

somedude20 3 years, 11 months ago

Nope all flavors to me taste like BS to me. Stopped believing in fairytales and Santa 25 years ago. Now I only believe in The Beatles and John Lennon.

booyalab 3 years, 11 months ago

Everyone believes in something that sounds wacky to others. Case in point: Beatlemania

jonas_opines 3 years, 11 months ago

Great Cthulhu, mighty lord, please spare a moment of your. . . thought towards our elected officials. They need your attentions. Desperately.

Bob Forer 3 years, 11 months ago

Would be glad to, provided someone show me how to pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

tolawdjk 3 years, 11 months ago

Yargh! Ask and Ye shall recieve, may his noodly appendage be upon you.

Our pasta, who art in a colander, draining be your noodles. Thy noodle come, Thy sauce be yum, on top some grated Parmesan. Give us this day our garlic bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trample on our lawns. And lead us not into vegetarianism, but deliver us some pizza, for thine is the meatball, the onion, and the bay leaves, forever and ever. R'Amen

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 11 months ago

Uh, which god do I pray to? Who does the governer-elect pray to? If the Christian God is busy squishing liberals, does he have time to listen to Kansas Republicans who bow and scrape to the governer-elect? I wonder if Allah is available? Or maybe well....who is left??

JustAsking 3 years, 11 months ago

I like this one by Janis and I pray every morning. I think there are enough "lords" in my request:

Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends. Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends. So oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz Oh lord won't you buy me a color TV. Dialing for dollars is trying to find me. I wait for delivery each day until 3. So oh lord won't you buy me a color TV. Oh lord won't you buy me a night on the town. I'm counting on you lord, please don't let me down. Prove that you love me and buy the next round. Oh lord won't you buy me a night on the town. Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends. Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends. So oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz

Hee, Hee, Hee, Hee.........

JustAsking 3 years, 11 months ago

For those who missed my earlier response to KCXD45, 1:20 post:

So??? Your last paragraph is a really Christian like!! Surely you have violated one your sins!! Oh, I forgot, sometime today you’ll be asking someone for forgiveness and everything will then be just fine.

For thousands of years people thought the lighting and thunder were "god's" tools. For hundreds of years the “doctors” let blood to cure people disease. Now we know both beliefs were incorrect. Just because it has happened in the past, doesn’t make it right. Just because a group of people have used a government facility doesn’t make it right. Don’t use this as justification for what you say is "right".

When to the other "faiths" get access to the government property (US Capital Building). Which one should be first? How each “faith” get one Sunday. Of course only American citizens are welcome. Oh, I forgot, there’s only one true faith. The one you believe in. The rest of the people are wrong. And after all, your “faith” got there first.

I’ve hear it said "More people have died in the name of their god, or what he/she was a alleged to have said, than for any other cause in history”. That can’t be good!!

The “nut jobs” are the one pushing their “what is right is what I believe” on everyone else. If you don’t believe as I do, your wrong! You must agree with “Topeka Fred” and his bunch of nut jobs. Do they represent what you feel is “RIGHT”.

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

"I’ve hear it said "More people have died in the name of their god, or what he/she was a alleged to have said, than for any other cause in history”. "

You probably read it on the internet, huh? Seriously, you're going to need a lot of religious wars to add up to just those few tens of millions the communists killed in the last century. Once you add in those who were killed because a king/ruler simply wanted more land, you haven't a chance in hell of even coming close.

JustAsking 3 years, 11 months ago

OH, I see.

This makes it ok to kill someone else because they don't believe in my god says. The killing for this reason has been going on for centuries, not just the 20th and still goes on today. The bombing of Christian churches in the Middle East. How many Christians have killed Muslims because they don’t believe in the “Right” god? Whose god is correct, or best, or kindest, or oh, hell let’s just kill all them who don’t believe like we do, and then there will only be those who think like us.

Me, I don’t need you using your “god” to tell me or anyone else how to live or think. After all, I’m not sure yours is the best “god”. After all there are millions of people who have a different "god" than yours, and how can they all be be so incorrect?

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

"This makes it ok to kill someone else..."

No, makes it a simple question of claimed fact. When someone makes a statement as historically inaccurate as yours and tries to pass it off as a deep thought, she should not complain when someone calls her bluff.

JustAsking 3 years, 11 months ago

Oh, and the basis of all of your “facts” are from one book? They must be far more correct.

Gosh if it’s written in one book it must be true. So I think I’ll write a book with one statement and therefore it must be true above all other “facts’. Of course your book is much better than mine. After all its larger and written only by men, I guess women we not worth or writing back then, who lived in a time when lightning and thurder must have been “god’s” voice from heaven.

Hmmm, from a very unworthy source, at least in your mind, “The number of people that were killed by God in the Bible. I came up with 2,476,633, which, of course, greatly underestimates God's total death toll, since it only includes those killings for which specific numbers are given. No attempt was made to include the victims of Noah's flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, or the many plagues, famines, fiery serpents, etc., with which the good book is filled. Still, 2 million is a respectable number even for world class killers”

Do you agree with this number? I'll wager it's much higher.

I think George Carlin said it best when revising the Ten Commandments...

"THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Murder. But when you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed. [...] Thou shalt try real hard not to kill anyone, unless of course they pray to a different invisible man than you."

So yes, I do think more people have died in the name of Christianity. History has shown us what a little closed-mindedness can actually do.

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

"So yes, I do think more people have died in the name of Christianity. History has shown us what a little closed-mindedness can actually do."

Yes, you showed us right there, and you have also demonstrated an appalling historical ignorance. In fact, I am willing to grant your 2 million number, plus a million for the Crusades, A paltry few thousand were killed in the Inquisition (look it up), Northern Ireland was political, but if I give it to you, it adds, what, 20,000? WTC, 3,000 - we're not getting very far. But let's take the 2 million and the 1 million and the little numbers we'll round up to another million since I don't have Kashmir on the top of my head. So 4 million deaths in your big list, more or less. That is still less than number killed in the Soviet Union by atheists by more than a factor of 10. It is only a little more than the sum of those killed in Poland by Atheists in the late 40s combined with those killed by Atheists in Cambodia in the 70s. And don't forget China, which is a number on the order of the USSR's. Unless all these atheists are killing in the name of God, you're flat out wrong. by a lot.

Your "belief" is not just demonstrably incorrect, but your ignorance of history is blatant and willful. This conclusion has nothing to do with the book you so dislike, but the fact that I'm an historian. At the risk of sounding like a whiner, you're abusing my craft, and I have reacted just like a biologist reacts when some snotty-nosed creationist comes forth with an "I've heard..." that is a) demonstrably ignorant and b) clung to for reasons that are obviously emotional. It annoys me.

If you had any integrity, you would react your preposterous claim and admit that when it comes to history, you have not a clue what you're talking about. I'm waiting but not particularly hopeful.

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

But since you asked, yes, the basis of my facts can be found in one book: Death by Government, by RJ Rummel http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM#TAB

There are some really nice tables in there, you might find a couple of them of interest, like this one that details the killing of the 15 most lethal regimes of the last century: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.3.GIF Or this one, which details the century's bloodiest dictators: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.4.GIF

In each of them you will doubtless discover that the top 4 or 5 outnumber the killings of the bible (how this becomes Christian, I have no idea - the Jews claim Moses and David pretty hard) and your named religious wars all by themselves, and none of them, whether authoritarian, fascist, or communist can legitimately claim to be killing in the name of God.

But you made and attempted to justify an historical claim, not a religious one: "More people have died in the name of their god, or what he/she was a alleged to have said, than for any other cause in history." So rather than going back to another bible rant (I'm not particularly interested in your theology, it is your history that intrigues me) how about some historical numbers?

How many people have died in history, and of them, how many have died in the name of their god?

And I'm sure everyone here would appreciate if you'd show your work or, that failing, acknowledge your error.

somedude20 3 years, 11 months ago

I rather like Jobu (the god from Major League the one who had a whole bucket of KFC instead of a whole chicken). Dude steals Jobu's liquor and says "up your butt Jobu" and dude gets nailed in the head with a baseball bat. That is the god that I have chosen to follow

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

I guess we'll have to visit you in jail someday.

Fossick 3 years, 11 months ago

Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.

guesswho 3 years, 11 months ago

I will pray we follow the teachings of the Bible. My first prayer is to remove all figs from Kansas, as Jesus hates figs.

Mark 11:12-14.

Romans832 3 years, 11 months ago

If prayer has no effect, then what's the harm in praying?

In the book of Acts, there was a man named Gamaliel who was advocating for sanity in how to deal with the apostles--some wanted to kill them. G. thought that was pretty radical. Basically his argument was, "If these men are men of God, nothing you do will be able to stop them. If they are not from God, their work will fail." http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%205:38-39&version=NIV

bad_dog 3 years, 11 months ago

I have to believe Brownback will rationalize that whatever pops into his brain was divinely inspired. I'd rather pray for this country and its citizens directly and hope the politicians don't continue to prey on us.

kcxd45 3 years, 11 months ago

"....And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. "

God Bless you all. Good night.

loverofidiots 3 years, 11 months ago

My prayer is that our governor will accept the people who are so unaccepting and intolerant, like many of the people replying here. Let's let the governor be who he is and you be who you want to be without criticizing values that are close to his heart.

jayhawklawrence 3 years, 11 months ago

Regarding the pot shots people are taking at religion;

I am a long time resident of Lawrence and have raised a family here. I don't personally know anyone that shares your views. Of the thousands of people I have met in and around Lawrence, it would be very rare to meet a person who trashes religion and criticizes the comment made by Sam Brownback.

So which version of Lawrence does the rest of Kansas, as represented in Anthony Brown's comments, believe is the real Lawrence.

I would say they lean toward the negative version because that is what Republicans do. I used to listen to Limbaugh for years and that is what he does and all the right wing nuts and even the left wing nuts. They need a villain. So Lawrence has become a convenient villain for at least some Kansas Republicans.

I have news for you. There are no werewolves or vampires. It is just a story.

Glenn Reed 3 years, 11 months ago

Not sure why so many folks are shocked and/or appalled at this. Everyone knew the guy was a religious man, so it's not out of character for the guy.

Asking for prayer wouldn't be out of character if he supported gay marriage.

Asking for prayer wouldn't be out of character if his position on education made sense.

Asking for prayer wouldn't be out of character if he could tell the difference between "intelligent design" and "actual science."

I think the fact that Mr. Brownback asked for prayers is, at best, silly. Also, silly at worst. It's completely irrelevant to the issues that make him a bad governor.

verity 3 years, 11 months ago

Personally, I don't think it is irrelevant.

I feel like he's using his position to push religion down my throat. Of course, I'm not surprised, but I still don't like it. Now that may be a silly feeling, but it still makes me cringe. If it was someone who was less publicly "Christian" I wouldn't like it either, but I probably wouldn't feel that there was an agenda behind it.

After all, he is a member of the "Family" and Opus Dei, whose agendas are to make the U.S. a theocracy. (This is not a conspiracy theory, it is well documented. If you don't believe it, look it up.)

What I really don't like about these organizations, besides the fact that they don't respect the wall between church and state, is that they are secretive and underhanded.

And for those of you who don't believe there should be a wall between church and state---be careful what you wish for. Your group won't necessarily be the one in control. I don't know of any instance in history where the combination has turned out to be good for either the church (or any religion) or state.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Family and Opus Dei concerns may be valid.

But all he did was ask people to pray for guidance for him - that doesn't seem too terrible to me.

After all, if you don't want to, don't do it.

verity 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't like the fact that he thinks he is/will be getting divine guidance and therefore what he does is ordained by God. That's what is really scary to me.

My experience has been that people who seek "God's Will" generally find that God wants them to do exactly what it is that they want to do. As in, they can justify just about anything by saying that God led them to do it. I'll take the educated conscience of an atheist any day.

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