Archive for Thursday, August 18, 2011

Statehouse Live: Brownback defends signing into law controversial abortion measures

August 18, 2011, 2:13 p.m. Updated August 18, 2011, 4:36 p.m.

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— In public comments, Gov. Sam Brownback repeatedly talks about the state's budget struggles.

But Brownback, a Republican, said Thursday he stands by his decision to sign into law three controversial measures related to abortion that will cost Kansans big bucks to defend.

"You can't know for sure what all comes out of that afterwards, but it was the will of the Legislature and the people of the state of Kansas," he said in response to a question about the wisdom of signing into law abortion laws that have landed the state in court.

This week, U.S. District Judge J. Thomas Marten of Wichita rejected a request to suspend an order blocking Kansas from denying about $330,000 in federal health care dollars to Planned Parenthood.

While the funds are for non-abortion services, the measure was pushed by anti-abortion legislators who say any tax funding of Planned Parenthood is wrong because the organization does do abortions.

Attorney General Derek Schmidt, also a Republican, has hired the high-dollar firm of Foulston Siefkin to represent the state in that lawsuit. Four attorneys alone in that case are each charging the state $300 per hour, according to the contract for legal services.

Earlier this week, the American Civil Liberties Union sued to block another law signed by Brownback that will prohibit private insurance policies from covering abortion costs, unless the procedure is needed to save the life of the woman.

“This law is part of a nationwide trend to take away insurance coverage for a legal medical procedure that is an important part of basic health care for women,” said Brigitte Amiri, senior staff attorney with the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. “Many things can happen in a pregnancy that are beyond a woman’s control, so having insurance coverage for abortion ensures that every woman can get the health care she may need.”

But Kathy Ostrowski, legislative director for Kansans for Life, said the ACLU lawsuit was "an attempt to test the resolve of legislators and the new Attorney General, Derek Schmidt. It is calculated to plant doubts in the citizenry about the soundness and need for pro-life laws by sowing discord about legal expenses, and by raising the same tired old arguments and incorrect comparisons."

And the state faces another federal lawsuit brought by two other abortion providers who are challenging new licensing regulations. Schmidt has hired private attorneys in that case too.

Brownback defended all three measures, saying they were passed with bi-partisan support in the Legislature. "We'll see it on through," he said.

Comments

Kim Murphree 3 years, 11 months ago

We are broke unless we need to make sure you Kansans obey our idea of religion...then we will spend you to death.

kscountryboy 3 years, 11 months ago

What does religion have to do with killing innocent, defensless babies?

angelbear 3 years, 11 months ago

you know i personally would not get an abortion but i know for a fact that to bring anymore unwanted babies into the world is worse for the baby. yes i agree that women have the right to decide it is thier bodies they pay all the cost not just money wise but in every way. and i am sorry but no man can understand this.and even more important it is legal and needs to stay that way

chootspa 3 years, 11 months ago

Apparently it has a lot to do with framing a legal procedure that removes an unwanted fetus as the "killing of an innocent, defenseless baby"

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

very bogus...the pro-aborts will use gov't resourses to spend in unlimited amounts when they have the levers of power...this is only the State of Kansas representing the pro-life majority of the Kansas Legislature and our pro-life governor. You cannot fault the legal system for working as intended to bring and end to or at least limit the dismemberment of unborn children.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

$1200/hour for this lawsuit.

We have an AG's office - why not have them do the work instead?

I thought we were "broke" - or is that only the case when we're talking about education, social services, and the arts?

freedom55 3 years, 11 months ago

What about the men who fathers these babies, let’s just castrate any male who chooses to have sex outside of marriage and fathers a child? Do you think the god fearing citizens of Kansas would support that law? No, now let’s get real no one has the right to tell another person what to do with their body. I personally could not have an abortion but how dare someone and especially a male tell me what I can or cannot do to my body. This is very personal decision and it is between a woman and her god, it is not decision between a woman and a simple man and or simple woman.
Let me ask all you God fearing people who impose your believes upon others, how many of you have adopted these children?

chocolateplease 3 years, 11 months ago

Health care insurers often cover the cost of abortion because it is far more cost-effective than if they had to pay everything for a woman choosing to carry the baby to full term. That isn't the case with your face lift which won't save insurance companies a penny.

Jimo 3 years, 11 months ago

Of course it's "basic healthcare". Everything involved in pregnancy has health consequences, regardless.

But thanks for the insight into your mind. Extremism really does cloud the basic reasoning skills.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Call around and see.

Normally, that sort of decision is up to the insurance companies.

Except when the government makes a law prohibiting them from covering certain procedures in their general policies.

angelbear 3 years, 11 months ago

it is not elective surgey and your not talk elective your talk cosmentic bing diffrence.and just so you know it is not about women health it is about the insurance companies making more money on us women because what was it that person said oh yea its' like carrying a spare tire in your care.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

correct the taxpayers should not be on the "hook" for this procedure...

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Please stay with the discussion.

This had nothing to do with taxpayer funding - the law prohibits insurance companies from offering abortion coverage as part of their general policies.

That's private insurance companies, not Medicare, and private individuals covered with their own money.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Premium payers who are pro-life do not want to offer up their premiums to pay for elective abortions...if you want me to state it more properly...it is a form of subsidy...we disagree with...

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

That's something that they should take up with the insurance companies, not the government.

If I didn't want my premiums to go into a pool that was drawn on to pay for Viagra prescriptions, I wouldn't suggest the government pass a law about it.

Kirk Larson 3 years, 11 months ago

If you don't like it, cancel your insurance.

madameX 3 years, 11 months ago

Whether or not an insurance company chooses to cover abortion is up to them. However, that is not what is at issue here. What is at issue is whether or not is is appropriate for a state to bar an insurance company from providing coverage for something that is perfectly legal for no real reason other than the legislators of that state don't approve of it.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

That's $1200/hour for these attorneys, for this one lawsuit alone.

I thought the state was broke?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

this is standard procedure when the state is sued by a group like the ACLU.

rhd99 3 years, 11 months ago

I could swear that everytime I listen to him, Brownbackistan's voice is the male equivalent of Charlie Brown's teacher. All sound, yet more non-sense!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

well I guess you must be a liberal extremist because the common-sense Kansan listens to Governor Brownback and hears someone who cares about our family values and wants to bring a end to the terrible destruction of abortion on demand.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Common-sense Kansan: your facts, please? Where do you get the idea that you know who the common-sense Kansan is? This sounds like a sound bite without any bite.

meggers 3 years, 11 months ago

"but it was the will of the Legislature and the people of the state of Kansas"

That is a bald-faced lie.

rhd99 3 years, 11 months ago

You're damn right it was a lie! This disgusting religious ZEALOT knows nothing about women's health, let alone the pain they go through during pregnancy. What's more laughable, is he is so stupid cannot understand this: IF the Supreme Court says it's ok to have an abortion (Roe V. Wade), then the states have no room to go against. Of course, he IS one of the dumbest law school graduates we have in government.

Lana Christie-Hayes 3 years, 11 months ago

Straight up... LIE!.. who does he think we are????

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Tell you what, you of the "only right mind": your use of epithets such as "baby killer" seriously negates any thoughtful discussion of your "side" of the argument. If you had a brain cell still working instead of parroting other dead brain cells, you might invite serious discussion as to what the opposition to your so-called "pro-life" sect has to say and the reasons for which they stand. There are, unknownst to you and yours, a myriad of medical reasons for which fetal termination is not only desirable, but necessary. Until you have the basic understanding of such things, and until you know me, personally, I take deep offense at your cavalier, uneducated, ignorant ignoring of the viewpoints of other people. You, and the rest of the cruel, unthinking crowd with which you identify, will never triumph against fact and human need, no matter how many insults you throw around. Your knee-jerk reaction to, and ignorance of, scientific fact is catamount to the "world is flat" mentality and dies of its own crushing weight.

Now, if you have something to say which is backed by science rather than emotion, say it and you will be heard. I find it amazing that you will not, have not, and, probably, will never be convinced that any part of your belief is wrong, and that you, without any true reason, feel compelled to stoop to name calling and insult to make a pointless point.

I abhor the fact that pregnancy termination is, in fact, sometimes necessary, and wish it were not so. I abhor more deeply the fact that there are too many homeless, underloved, uncared-for childreen in the world. Until you can address this problem, you have no right to tell anyone who can not care for a child that she is compelled to have that child. I detest, even more, the cruelty of your kind in calling those who have made this cruel choice by names that can not be taken back. Apparently, compassion in the "pro-life" ranks is limited to that you each have for one another. Go figure.

Be swift with your reply to this, rtwngr, because I, and the majority of US citizens, are loaded for bear, and you look, walk and sound like a bear.

Jimo 3 years, 11 months ago

Breaking the law was "the will of the Legislature and the people of the state of Kansas"?

Really?

I see nothing in the article that indicates he was anything less than serious. Seriously delusional.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Well then explain to me why they almost had 100 votes out of 125 in the Kansas House of Representatives and a large majority in the Kansas Senate as well!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

DUH!!! How many repubs were elected last term, and how many demos? Not hard to figure why the majority ruled, huh? Furthermore, you will see, in the near future, a diminishing of the knee-jerk reaction common in the legislature to this point, because, contrary to your (uneducated, unfounded) opinion, the majority of Kansans are educated, thinking, compassionate human beings who were fed up with a political and economic situation they felt was out of their control. Unfortunately, it took an election such as the last one to bring reality storming back to the state, and you will not see a Brownback in the governor's office again, regardless whether he runs off with his Tea Party cronies to run for (and lose, monumentally) national office, leading to a reversal of the sheep-like following of the legislators of the governor's autocratic "leadership".

CrazyUkrainian1 3 years, 11 months ago

Brownback is an ironic name since he's actually white trash.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

That is your opinion, however, many other Kansans believe that he is a man of principle and is doing the right thing on behalf of a majority of the State! We believe in life and rebuilding a culture of life in Kansas!

bklonnie 3 years, 11 months ago

And you are among the uneducated majority that brought him into office.

It's very unfortunate I have to use the word uneducated and majority when talking about the state I live in.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

Take heart, bk. BB was actually elected by less than a third of the registered voters in this state.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brownback Go all the way down to the bottom where it shows the statistics for his election to the governor's chair. He got 63% (less than two thirds) of the total vote. Factor in that it was a light turnout and only about 60% of registered voters participated in the election. In his election, Brownback had neither a super majority (over two thirds) nor even, really, a simple one. Not much of a mandate. Remember this when you deal with people who like to scream that BB was "elected by an overwhelming number of Kansans". He wasn't.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

In our system to win you need 50% of the voters plus one...

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

You need a miniscule majority of the eligible voters who actually turn out to vote.

"On behalf of a majority of the State" is not supported by the results of an election in which the winner gets about 1/3 of the eligible voters to vote for them.

somedude20 3 years, 11 months ago

Brownback does not have even one redeeming quality about himself. I grow very very tired of these people who force polices that are based on THEIR OWN religious beliefs down our throats. Every damn day it seems like religion is the cause of some new law that limits our personal freedoms. I do not believe in super powers, sky-god voodoo man and dinos walking the earth at the same time, that the earth is only 10,000 years old(99.99999999% sure it is just a fairy tale) but I leave open the door that it could be real (there is a chance)but you will never get that concession from the other side. Nope, they have to force their beliefs onto others. Old Rick Perry can shun global wariming evidence (real facts that CAN be proven) but totally believes in a "god" and "jesus" story (that is right folks, god aint nothin but a stupid unbelievable story that anyone over 8 years of age should be sceptical of, really) Point is, you can believe in ridiculously stupid things as it is your right, but your right stops when your beliefs impede my rights....so sit down, drink a tall glass of STFU

Lana Christie-Hayes 3 years, 11 months ago

I can't stand Sam Brownback. I am a Christian. I don't like your expression of my beliefs. But I agree that you do have a right to your own beliefs and freedom to express them, and that Sammy Boy needs to back off of his democracy killing agendas in the name of God. His actions are FAR from being Christian! He's a mean-spirited Tyrant!

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

His expression isn't of your beliefs; it's his expression of what Brownback and Co. say are "Christian beliefs". They have hijacked your religion, m'dear, and frankly, if they did that to me I would be p***ed beyond words. But you can't blame somedude that BB&Co. are giving Christianity a bad name.

rhd99 3 years, 11 months ago

If I could, please, the name of this blame game is religious zealot Sam Brownback and his anti-people, pro-government intrusive policies. We are all outraged beyond words, myself especially since I believed in last year's election this IDIOT could make things better for us in Kansas. The problem was I heard nothing out of Tom Holland. NOTHING. Now, I'm fighting like hell to make sure Brownbackistan has NO chance at higher office AGAIN! Let's stay focused and united and make our voices louder and harsher against this governor and his idiotic policies that are in fact UN-AMERICAN!

Jeff Dean 3 years, 11 months ago

If you did not hear from Tom it is because Brownie was well funded. Tom did not have a chance. But, the information on Tom was there if you looked for it.

Lana Christie-Hayes 3 years, 11 months ago

Oh, believe ME!! I am totally P.O.'d !!!! I don't blame somedude... I was just saying I disagree with his opinion of true Christians stand for. We are not all "stupid" as he implies.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

oh boy--here we go again attacking God and religion! A favorite of the 'extreme left' but it does not reflect the values of the average God-fearing Kansan who believes in a return to traditional family values. We believe that the secular left is living in the "fairy tale land of unbelief" in which one does not have to be responsible to a personal God.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

You don't have a clue about what the "average" Kansan feels about God. There are fewer church-going Kansans than the other kind, for one thing. The most important thing is that the majority of people have serious, deep beliefs concerning religion (or the lack of such) and, though it may come as a shock to you, are just as good as people as you profess to be. Attacking your arguments is not pro quid attacking religion and God. Or "god" uncapitalized, even. You and your kind are not the be-all and end-all of spiritual thought. I applaud your deeply held beliefs until the point that they denigrate those of others. With your beliefs, no mission work or selfless help would ever be given, and that's no "Christian", mr./ms kansasjayhawk, that's nothing but selfishness and lack of humanity.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

sounds a little judgmental don't you think? I don't think you know of my personal mission and giving do you?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't think real facts matter to the pro-abortion left? Why don't we want to reduce the number of abortions and make the clinics safer for women? Because the left will not tolerate anyone who does not completely drink the pro-abortion coolaid and demand abortion with absolutely no restrictions-they are the real extremists--and reading some of these posts makes that very clear. Debate the issues don't attack peoples personal religious and moral beliefs!

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

That's just not true.

Many on the left would like to reduce the number of abortions, and all want them to be safe for women - I assume you're referring to the unnecessary new regulations there. Your own "evidence" that they were necessary in fact shows that existing regulations were sufficient - the problem was inadequate enforcement.

And, even Roe vs. Wade has restrictions on abortion in later trimesters.

vuduchyld 3 years, 11 months ago

Welcome to Brownbackistan, it's where Kansas used to be. Welcome to Brownbackistan, it's our new theocracy...

the music video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLUfNP...

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Kansans believe in God and reject abortion on demand! There is nothing wrong with having faith and we reject the attacks upon religion and morals from the secular left. Open your minds and you might find a savior to bring hope and value back into life.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

As I said before, you open your mind, than I'll listen to your thoughtful debate. I agree: attacking a person's religion is pointless and negative, and those who use that mode of refutal are wrong, and contribute little to the discussion, any mor than those of you who cloak your unthinking cruelty in religious terms. WWJD? Probably have a compassion that seems to be bereft in your manner of thought and debate.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

doesn't make sense... because defending the weakest among us is a Christian virtue... who could be weaker than the unborn... go Sam we support you!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

How about the person--yes, there is a living, breathing, THINKING person--in the equation, and that's the mother and father of the unthinking, unemotional fetus. I know they have no place in your cruel attacks, but there are the weak of whom you speak, they who need our help to get through a situation you will never, I hope, encounter.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I think you might need to become educated about how much the Christian community supports the mothers and fathers who find themselves in these positions. We fund crisis pregnancy help centers we give our blood, sweat, and tears to help other in these situations! However, we still must be salt and light in the world when we declare that taking an unborn child's life is cruel and unusual punishment! Read the kind words of mother Theresa toward the women but her rebuke of the supporters of abortion! Listen and you might hear the compassionate voice!

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

"Crisis pregnancy help centers" that deliberately lie to pregnant women and provide them with false information such as "Having an abortion will make you sterile and you will never be able to get pregnant again." and "Abortion leads to a higher risk of cancer." and other such nonsense. They lie so prevalently that a bill has been introduced into Congress (which probably won't pass the House. Republican pro-birthers in Congress blanch and cringe at the idea.) that would outlaw these centers from telling falsehoods and open them up to fraud charges. That is how the "Christianist" (not Christian) community supports pregnant women.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

crisis pregancy centers offer help to women, even loving couples to adopt, it is the abortion mills that lie to women and cause hurt and destruction.

Joe Hyde 3 years, 11 months ago

The federal courts will shoot down his high flying anti-abortion attack. The question then becomes: Has Gov. Brownback spray-painted enough grafitti that his gang affiliation is clear? I think he has. I mean, how else can one interpret his statements and actions (and the actions of the state departments he's over)?

His removal from office by state constitution methods appears the only avenue by which his attacks on abortion rights can be thoroughly halted. Or maybe the outcome of these U.S. District Court cases will cool his jets. Hope so, but I'm dubious. The man doesn't seem to intellectually grasp that by using a governor's office as a tree stand from which to arrow a female U.S. citizen''s right to abortion, he has self-identified himself as a scofflaw to the federal judiciary.

Wish he'd save us taxpayers the fortune we'll pay in legal fees if these appeals proceed. Just let 'em go. If you don't like abortions, then don't have one. If you're a man who doesn't want a woman to even have the right to an abortion, then convince the females in your own family about this; leave everybody else out of it.

deec 3 years, 11 months ago

I'll go a step farther. If you're a man who doesn't want any woman you're involved with to even consider abortion, get yourself spayed or neutered.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Is that really necessary?

To talk of men in that fashion?

deec 3 years, 11 months ago

As long as women are treated as breeding machines who should have no control over their reproductive organs, yup. If the sum of me is nothing more than a functioning uterus, then males are nothing more than the sum of their reproductive organs. People who are opposed to abortion should only have a say in what happens with their parts. If they want nothing to do with the potential to need an abortion, then turn off the baby factories, men and women.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't take issue with your idea that men should consider preventing unwanted children, or even that they could have surgical procedures to do so, like vasectomies.

My problem is with the language, which is generally used for pets, not human beings.

You can contribute to raising the level of conversations, or to bringing them down - it's your choice.

I choose, as much as I'm able, to try to raise that level.

How does it help for you to denigrate men, if your concern is that some are denigrating women? Then, you're doing the very thing that you dislike in others.

bklonnie 3 years, 11 months ago

Or you could both just practice safe sex. Thanks for making a sexist comment. Shows your maturity level.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

The "right" to abortion is built on a false premise. Norma McCorvey the original "roe" of Roe v. Wade has confessed that it was built upon a "lie" about being gang raped and she herself has now changed positions and become pro-life. Governor Brownback is not attacking women but rather he is defending both women and unborn children. That is why the vast majority of Kansas applaud his efforts which will continue.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

And has recanted that "confession". Move on. And if Governor Brownback, is not attacking the women who find themselves in this situation, what do you call it? Defending? Get real, and think for a change.

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

A quick google search shows that by the time Roe vs. Wade came before the Supreme Court, she was no longer claiming to have been raped, and the word rape doesn't appear in any of the court documents.

In other words, her previous false claim to have been raped is irrelevant to Roe vs. Wade, and had nothing to do with the Court's decision.

Also, the reason she had previously claimed that was in order to try to have a legal abortion, because Texas law only allowed abortion in cases of rape.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

you are missing the point here--she has changed her mind about the decision she no longer supports Roe V. Wade she rejects this brutal violation of human rights she is now pro-life!

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't care what her personal beliefs are.

"The "right" to abortion is based on a false premise" "it was built upon a "lie""

Since rape was never mentioned in the court papers, and she was no longer claiming to have been raped, the decision had nothing to do with that.

So, the right to abortion was not based on a false premise, or built upon a lie.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Ms. McCorvey herself "Roe" in Roe v. Wade that the case was built upon lies.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

You are missing the point those of us who are pro-life view the violent dismemberment of a human child in the womb as being completely unacceptable in a civilized society. We will continue to speak out and work within the law to bring an end to this injustice! Just saying "don't have one" will not end the violence that is taking place!

Jan Rolls 3 years, 11 months ago

What people in kansas did he survey? He surveyed himself. He is a bold faced liar.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

The elected representatives of the people reflect the will of the people of Kansas. He is not a liar...

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

And, when they voted to continue the funding for the Arts Commission, they were doing so, right?

So, why did the governor eliminate that funding instead?

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Of course it's not.

If elected representatives reflect the will of the people, and that's what you think the governor should do as well, then it follows he should have kept the funding for the Arts Commission.

But he didn't. So, he is not in fact following the "will of the people" as expressed through the legislators - he is picking and choosing what he wants to do based on his own agendas.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

completely uncivil to post that...it does not address any issue it is just another "personal attack"!

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 11 months ago

The rancid Republican Terrorist Party, teabag division, wants the government out of our lives and off our bags except when it comes to our medical decisions. Brownbackwards wants to have his pseudo religious dogma to reach into our bedrooms and doctor's offices, to hell with the HIPPA regulations. This guy is the lowest of the low, the shining star of the Palinist-Facist branch of the GOP.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

well i think your post is more like a personal attack then any kind of argument. Many of us believe that Brownback is a great governor and he is reflecting the will of the people of this State. If you don't agree then elect a pro-choice legislature next time and none of these law will be enacted until then face it you are in the minority in Kansas!

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Well, we'll see what happens next election.

I have seen and heard a number of people who voted for Brownback express disappointment with him, and say they wouldn't vote for him again.

And, again, the issue is constitutionality - even if a majority want a law like this, if it's unconstitutional, it won't and shouldn't stand.

Our system is not simply a "majority wins everything" system.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Well they are going to have to change a great number of seats in the legislature and I assure you that many of us who support life will be very very actively involved to see that it does not happen. I welcome the fight at the ballot box so that the citizens can be educated about abortion on demand and the extreme views of the left-wing.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

I've been very vocal of the fact that my politics and beliefs are quite opposite of Dolph's and the religious right. I also must admit that I've skated pretty close to violating the TOS a time or two. Yet I'm still here (and appreciative of the fact that I haven't been disappeareded). Thing is, I do at least try to not personally attack anyone on the board. Frequently, what's got people banned is their arrogance in thinking they can do personal attacks on other posters and get away with it. (I still think that having a /ignore feature will prevent a lot of this since a lot of the time personal attacks come from frustration.)

Lana Christie-Hayes 3 years, 11 months ago

brown-back [broun-bak] noun, verb 1. viscous adhesion of fecal residues on rear surface of passive partner following aggressive anal intercourse 2. to metaphorically insert the human head so far up an anal orifice due to conservative extremism to accomplish a complete disappearance of all intelligent reasoning

Often used in passive construction as in: “The people of Kansas are being brownbacked by their governor.”

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

about as uncivil a post as you could put up...

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

No less civil than calling traumatized mothers and fathers "baby killer". Follow your own nose to civility.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

seems like the liberal left could come up with some issue discussion that actually addresses the issue rather than the above type of post. It really doesn't help your cause!

JayhawkFan1985 3 years, 11 months ago

I'm continually amused by those on the far right who want government off the backs of businesses who pollute the environment, swindle life savings from familes, sell faulty products and the like but simulaneously want to stand on the necks of ordinary people. What's even funnier is they CHOOSE to not see the hypocrisy in all this.

Munsoned 3 years, 11 months ago

Yeah. Leave those chemical companies alone. Let them make their toxic products that cause birth defects, cancer, and other pro-life uncurable diseases.

beatrice 3 years, 11 months ago

Maybe like Brownback forced on the arts community, he should ask pro-life individuals to step up and fund the defense of his anti-abortion laws.

That isn't a joke.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

I agree with you absolutely Bea! Pro-choice groups and people have been forced into spending the money hire attorneys and file these lawsuits against these laws, pro-birth (they are not "pro-life" in any way, shape or form) groups should step up and put their money where their mouths are instead of hiding behind the state. They wanted these laws, let them defend them!

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Interesting.

When you want to make sure tax dollars aren't spent on something you disagree with, you seem to think that's a good thing.

But when others feel the same way about a different issue, it's suddenly not how the system works.

Hmmm.

KS 3 years, 11 months ago

Someplace along the line, we stopped teaching logic in schools. That is obvious after reading all these stupid comments from writers trying to defend abortion. What's really unfortunate is that this mentality is allowed to vote. Someday, when your brains are not being fried on something, you can sit down and truly analyze just how wrong abortion is. It is NOT a religion thing, it IS a common sense thing. Just remember that without "life" none of your other social justice items matter. Take away life and who cares about the rest of anything?

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

Ahh but there's the rub. Whose life has more value? That of the born or the unborn? At one point in the not so distant past, the life of the already born was not valued so much. Born children were not valued by society until about a hundred years ago (if that long ago. Orphan trains were still existence then.) Child abuse didn't become a universal crime until the late 1950's/early 1960's. I'm not so sure that born children are valued even now, given that 20% of children in the US, a supposedly, relatively wealthy, first world country, are allowed to live in poverty. Indeed, sir/madam, life of the already born is taken away on a daily basis and I'm not talking about forcible murder but by societal neglect. Until such time as that particular problem is dealt with, then indeed, who can care about the "rest of anything"? How can you care about the "unborn" when, if born, that child stands a great chance of being born into a fore shortened life anyway? You want logic? There's your logic.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

sounds like "revisionist history" to me. Children were not "valued" I disagree with you and suggest that you might try a different cultural anthropology book. Perhaps a little different worldview on some of these issues might help you as well!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Of course, you disagree. You know not of history, of the present, of anything that opposes your "philosophy". Again, become aware of facts and your arguments will be listened to. Do not, and your will be ignored and criticized as you deserve.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

I have the feeling she got her history from "Little House on the Prairie" (and I mean the TV show, not the books). Someone needs to tell her that the Depression was more like the Joads than "The Waltons".

Stu Clark 3 years, 11 months ago

Defending the right to a safe abortion is stupid? A symptom of a fried brain? This is BS, KS. Having grown up in the 1950s and '60s, I can tell you that abortion went on and I know at least one woman who almost died as a result of her East LA abortion procedure.

The point is that abortions will happen. What you and ksnjhk are supporting guarantees that they will be performed under the worst possible conditions. Some family values!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Well I guess you need to do a little research and you will find that women are still dying from "legal" abortions. The back-alley is still happening in some of these filthy clinics with drunken quack doctors killing babies at abortion mills!

rtwngr 3 years, 11 months ago

This thread is hilarious! Wow, you libs sure are taking all of this pretty hard. Talk about hate speech. The vitriol on this blog is over the top.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

Great way of contributing absolutely nothing to the dialogue. Name calling and faux condescension are the tools of an intellect too stupid to think of anything else.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

well I just remember that you believe that abortion is a method of birth control and that does not reflect the thinking of most Kansans I assure you of that!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

You remember nothing that might dissuade you of your unthinking prejudices.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

And, how in hell do you get by touting the "thinking of most Kansans" anyway? Your god give you the facts and figures?

mloburgio 3 years, 11 months ago

A Christian Plot for Domination

Put simply, Dominionism means that Christians have a God-given right to rule all earthly institutions. Originating among some of America’s most radical theocrats, it’s long had an influence on religious-right education and political organizing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/14/dominionism-michele-bachmann-and-rick-perry-s-dangerous-religious-bond.html

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Christians are also citizens and have the right to express their views! We will not be backed down by liberal "political correctness" we will defend the lives of the unborn!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Nor by compassion, facts, or anything else that smacks of thinking for yourselves.

Also, you might try a little grammar and sentence construction correctness, as it could make you appear to have at least some education.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

That is the pot calling the kettle black don't you think?

voevoda 3 years, 11 months ago

If Brownback and the State Legislature really cared about the well-being of women, they'd stop standing in the way of funding Planned Parenthood, which provides a lot of ordinary (non-abortion) health services to women who otherwise could not access them. If they really cared about the well-being of women, they'd channel the big bucks they are paying to Foulston Siefkin to pay for the SRS offices that are being closed down.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

do you know anything about the racisit and eugenics roots of Planned Parenthood? Do you really think that we want our hard earned tax dollars going to an outfit like that? All of the other services that you mention can be provided by the county health departments!

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Ok.

And if I and others don't want our hard earned tax dollars going to a law firm at $1200/hour to defend this lawsuit, then what?

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

I am having a hard time not calling you names, but here's a suggestion: google planned parenthood and its founder and see just how racist she was and how much she favored eugenics. Those red herrings are as old as the haters who were around when it was founded, and are as unfounded as can be. But, on the other hand, don't do any research, as it might cause you to think.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I do plenty of research and I am well aware of what Planned Parenthood does and what their agenda is! They are the largest abortion provider in the U.S. and they are using tax dollars to aid them in their destructive business. Pro-life citizens will not stop until all of tax money is removed from this nefarious organization.

voevoda 3 years, 11 months ago

kansasjayhawk, I am very much aware of the stands that Planned Parenthood took a century ago. What matters is what they stand for today. The same is true for any organization, including for example the Republican Party. Most of the Tea Party/Right Wing would have to condemn the Republican Party based on the positions it took under President Eisenhower. In fact, county health departments do not provide the services that Planned Parenthood does. And if they did, they could not do so at as reasonable a cost.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

So be specific what service are you talking about?

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

Birth control is a misnomer. By definition, birth control is used to prevent pregnancy. Therefore, under no circumstances can abortion be used as "birth control" because pregnancy has already taken place. Abortion can be used for birth control failure but it is not and will never be "birth control".

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

well that is not what you said the other day...you believe that it is a form of birth control...which it is not and should not be used as...

Sylvie Rueff 3 years, 11 months ago

Aren't there attorneys in Kansas who are qualified to do this work? It's the least Brownback could do to stem the outflow of dollars from Kansas. It appears Sam's quest is to bleed to death both Kansas' women and men.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I disagree with you it is clear that he will do the best job of defending the law that he can just as he would with any other piece of legislation passed by the Legislature!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Of course, you disagree: you are not able to think.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I don't agree with you. I believe Governor Brownback is simply doing his job by providing the best defense of the law! In the end you will find that we that taxpayers are not required to finance Planned Parenthood!

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Well, the AG could do the work instead of hiring outside counsel.

And, according to a story I read this morning, the state has a 25 year contract with Planned Parenthood.

And, the attempt to prevent federal funding from going to PP may be an improper attempt to impose a state rule on a federally funded program - that's what the judge said in his order.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Abortion is the brutal violation of the human rights of the unborn children in Kansas. Pro-life citizens stand to protect the rights of the unborn and restore justice to our state by once again protecting unborn children by law! Governor Brownback has stood strong to defend the little ones and he should be applauded for putting his principles above politics! Whether you agree or disagree with him you know where this good man of character stands!

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Abortion is the brutal result of the anguish of a mother who can not, or will not, live a normal life if her pregnancy continues to term. The real brutish thing is your taking her to task for doing the right thing for herself, and already sentient, thinking human and trying to make her feel as small as you are.

eyeye 3 years, 11 months ago

Brownback enabled the deaths of 10s of thousands of INNOCENT children in Iraq. He has NO moral standing on this issue.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

And appears not to heed any advice given to make its comments seem plausible. It's almost as if it were a machine programmed to make comments contrary to anything said, and then not reply.

Armored_One 3 years, 11 months ago

To quote:

"kansanjayhawk(anonymous)replies…

Premium payers who are pro-life do not want to offer up their premiums to pay for elective abortions...if you want me to state it more properly...it is a form of subsidy...we disagree with...

August 19, 2011 at 1:33 p.m."

Does this mean that those that pay insurance premiums to auto insurance companies can force legislation through the legal system preventing them from providing coverage for people that have had accidents? Your premiums on that type of insurance goes towards paying for accidents caused by drunk drivers, text-and-drive accidents and other such moronic concepts involving people and vehicles.

If it is acceptable in one place, then explain why it is not acceptable in another place.

I have no doubts in the least, given the comments that you have made to date on this thread, that you will somehow warp the flat statements I have made into some oddball mobius strip logic that will allow you to defend what are basically illegal laws. There are some rights that states have concerning companies that operate within their legal borders, but this far exceeds those rights.

It's the simple fact that you want what you want, regardless of what someone else may want, and since it happens to offend your delicate sensibilities, you want it gone, costs be damned.

I don't personally agree with abortion as an option for birth control, but you know what?

Legal American citizens are equally, at least in theory, covered by the laws that govern this land and prevent it from being overrun by those that simply have the most power at the moment. Until the laws stating that abortion is legal are removed, every female American citizen is entitled to the rights and privledges that law bestows on them.

Morals and ethics, while absolutely essential for personal existance in a unified direction, cannot and should not be legislated at any time. A general consensus as to what it right and wrong can be achieved, but the religious posturing from the pro-life "camp" is absolutely stomach churning.

Freedom OF religion demands that there is the equally important fact of freedom FROM religion. Unless you are willing to advocate that there should be a national religion established, as well as advocate the removal of other people's right to freedom of religion, stop using religion as the basis of your arguments. You cannot have both freedom of religion and laws established firmly in one religion, with the basis of theological emphasis. That's about the same as saying houses can only be built from wood, but you outlaw sawmills.

Please pick one side of the fence or the other before someone comes up with the great idea to emulate Vlad, tie a couple of weights to your ankles and show you why the pointy end of the fence is not the best seat in the house.

This concludes today's rant. We now return you to your regularly scheduled religious bigotry.

KS 3 years, 11 months ago

cait48 - When you sober up, reread your comment and you will understand what I mean by logic. Your comments are not even remotely close.

thebigspoon 3 years, 11 months ago

Are you referring to the post where she attempts to bring to your small, closed mind the value of human life, after birth? That one? The one in which she points out, quite correctly and succinctly, that your kind have a roadblock in vision and compassion when it comes to children born to circumstances--physical, mental, economic--that preclude their having a useful, enriching life? That one? So, what's your definition of logic, KS? Is it the same one you exhibit in every one of your posts, i.e., you disagree with my drivel, therefore you are illogical? Oh, yeah, that comment. Well, why didn't you just say so?

usnsnp 3 years, 11 months ago

If you think that doing wasy with legal abortions will cut the number that are done, you are wrong. You need to go back in history and check, the Rich and Well to do would send their daughters to where it was legal for abortions to be done, every one else had to make do.

Stu Clark 3 years, 11 months ago

Abolutely right on. See my response to KS's 7:10 post.

Armored_One 3 years, 11 months ago

Why is it acceptable to spay and neuter household pets to prevent overpopulation, but the same concept applied to human beings is abhorrent?

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

Does anybody else notice that Kansasjayhawk sounds like a parrot? Squawk! "Abortion bad! " Squawk! "Brownback good!", constantly repeating the same things with no proof and continually repeating fallacious logic. More and more I'm thinking this is a sockpuppet set up by an outside group to try and astroturf this board. (For those of you unfamiliar with those terms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(internet) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing) I've been around boards and forums since the mid '90s and this kind of behavior is pretty obvious. KJH, I do believe you have just been "outted".

Pastor_Bedtime 3 years, 11 months ago

At least the vast majority of Kansans can see through the lies of the religious zealots.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I guess you cannot handle conservative opinion? There is nothing wrong with a conservative steeping outside of the liberal majority opinion on this site and challenging those views. I assure you that there are a great many conservatives in the State of Kansas who agree with my positions on the issues--get over it-- it's called diversity!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Sounds like another "liberal" conspiracy theory--I assure you that I am real, I am a Kansan, and I do vote!~

pace 3 years, 11 months ago

I hate to see taxpayer's money spent on elaborate attempts to block what is a legal right. Same story on blocking voters with the new voter passport requirements. They think normal people should have no say in their life, their education, their bodies, their money. watta guy.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Well we have to spend some money to make sure that the law are enforced! I hope you are not suggesting that we only enforce the laws that you personally support?

jayhawxrok 3 years, 11 months ago

Abortion is a legal medical procedure.

You can oppose it on religious grounds if you want, basically if you don' like it don't have one. But you can't govern on religious grounds alone - this is not a theocracy.

Abstinence only education doesn't work, it's been proven not to work. Planned parenthood spends 3% of its budge on abortion services, the rest are prevention, healthcare, education, etc. All nuking them did was take away a resource from women who need it and increase the likelihood of back alley abortions and guarantee a lawsuit the state can't afford.

Brownback is a zealot and a disgrace to the office of Governor and this state, indeed the nation.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

  1. the pro-life laws are not strictly "religious"
  2. no one claims this is going to be a "theocracy" (no one even advocates that as far as I know)
  3. Abstinence only education has never been show not to work. In fact, abstinence is the only 100 percent fail proof method of birth control if practice!
  4. No evidence that Brownback is a zealot or a disgrace to the office of governor. In fact, many of us believe he is doing a fine job and we support his pro-life positions!

bad_dog 3 years, 11 months ago

1) The laws are "pro-life"? They seem simply designed to hinder abortions and are rooted in religious dogma. Are there any non-religious people advocating for the reversal of Roe v. Wade or otherwise restricting abortions? 2) Given the responses to this string, stating "no one claims this is going to be a theocracy" seems a bit obtuse. Perhaps no one from your perspective? 3) How did abstinence only education work out for Bristol Palin? 4) Again, obtuse or in complete denial as to both counts.

I just read in yesterday's Topeka Capitol Journal Brownback's approval rating is down to 47%. As such, it seems the "many" you allude to are now in the minority-at least as far as those who believe he is doing such a fine job.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

note: Brownback is 7 % ahead of Obama nationally and probably higher in Kansas. Fact is that politicians don't get very high marks right now...

eyeye 3 years, 11 months ago

NO ONE who supported the death and destruction of INNOCENT Muslims in any way shape or form has any moral standing on Pro-Life whatsoever.

Q. Why doesn't SUBSIDY SAM and his ChurchCo backers go to legal war over my objection to Federal tax dollars that I pay being used for WAR - which I have had a conscientious objection to all of my life, an objection just as deep as, nay deeper than, that of the PHONY Pro-Lifers who think Capital Punishment & un-necessary Wars are just fine?

A. Because the Churches-of-the-Chamber-of-Commerce have not given SUBSIDY Sam permission to do so.

Ergo, SUBSIDY Sam and all of his Corporate WELFARE dependent cohort will continue to deny funding for the Human and Civil Rights of Kansans and spend OUR MONEY instead on their own blaspheming idolatrous Money-Changing ways in the temples of ChurchCoC.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 11 months ago

Why should Kansas be granted immunity from breaking federal law?

Kansas should pay up instead of playing stupid games with the judicial system. Kansas pay up you are the criminal!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Kansas is not a "criminal" simply tired of Planned Parenthood being on welfare! We are working within the legal system to bring justice back to Kansas and kick this organization off the welfare rolls!

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

Odd. You're the only one I see calling names.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 11 months ago

That's not calling someone a derogatory name. That's pointing out a behavior. I also called her a sockpuppet. Again, not a "name", a "behavior". But go ahead, BAA. I gave up on you a long time ago.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

The point is that kind of debate tactic does not address any issue it just lowers your ability to even begin to find common-ground! Maybe cait48 you might find out that we perhaps agree on some issues just not this one???

jafs 3 years, 11 months ago

Those seem rather like distinctions without much of a difference to me.

Why not just discuss ideas and substance instead?

bad_dog 3 years, 11 months ago

Hmm, so your hypothesis is the Democratic party consists of atheists and atheists are inherently incapable of civility?

Mighty broad brush you paint with, BAA. Look in your own paint spattered mirror sometime. Hope that comment isn't too uncivil for you.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

I have not seen much "civility" from the left-wing on this site. Rather than address issues they make personal attacks-even on Brownback's sexuality and his daughter... they also make statements about pro-life people that should have been "aborted"! Deal with issues not personal attacks on people and their religious beliefs!

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