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Archive for Wednesday, January 13, 2010

Committee approves making K2 chemicals illegal

Committee endorses measure to outlaw high-inducing mixture

K2 is a legal, smokable herbal mixture with chemical properties similar to THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, a Johnson County Sheriff’s deputy said. K3 is a new drug that is legal because its compounds have been altered from what was found in K2.

K2 is a legal, smokable herbal mixture with chemical properties similar to THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, a Johnson County Sheriff’s deputy said. K3 is a new drug that is legal because its compounds have been altered from what was found in K2.

January 13, 2010, 2:49 p.m. Updated January 13, 2010, 4:33 p.m.

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State legislators move to ban chemicals

State leaders are looking to ban chemicals in K2, a herbal substance that has marijuana-like effects on users. Legislators want to make some of the chemicals in the substance illegal. Enlarge video

— A Senate committee Wednesday quickly recommended approval of a bill to make illegal the allegedly high-inducing chemicals in a herbal mixture called K2.

The Public Health and Welfare Committee sent Senate Bill 348 to the full Senate after hearing testimony from numerous law enforcement officials, including Douglas County Sheriff Ken McGovern

“I see this new ‘legal’ drug as an epidemic that threatens the youth of the state of Kansas,” McGovern told the committee.

McGovern said the sheriff’s office has had several incidents involving K2 “within our facilities.”

He said the office confiscated two 3-gram packages of K2 and a pipe from an inmate who had his work release revoked. In addition, he said that a man showing up for his first court appearance became belligerent and said loudly “he was legal because it was K2, and offered to sell it to others around him.”

K2 is sold as an incense and has been popping up in stores in Lawrence and across the state.

Under the new bill, several synthetic chemicals that apparently mimic the high-inducing chemical of marijuana would be added to the state’s list of illegal drugs.

Kyle Smith, speaking on behalf of the Kansas Peace Officers’ Association and Topeka police department, said he feared K2 could have negative long-term side effects on young people who are attracted to the product.

“Kids will do stupid things, and we are trying to protect them,” Smith said.

Most of the committee voted for the bill, but state Sen. David Haley, D-Kansas City, said he was reluctant to support it without getting more information on the chemicals. “I don’t really see the harm yet,” Haley said.

Comments

Alexander Neighbors 4 years, 11 months ago

“Kids will do stupid things and we are trying to protect them,” Smith said.

why don't they ban the following items Alcohol (drinking) ? Paint (huffing) ?

These are known items which kids use to get high and they are dangerous ?

exotica 4 years, 5 months ago

The people who make the laws were being missled. It happens all the time. People use wording like "we need to do this in order to protect the children" Once that is done FEAR is struck in the hearts of the fools who want to only be re-elected. You are not really trying to protect any children. If they were they would ban beer, wine and booze, since they are a factor in almost ever wrong thing that ever happens. If they wanted to protect the children, they would take crap off of the TV like say, South Park or Family Guy or any show that shows kids being disrespectful to adults..
You can drive right to Beatrice Nebraska and go to a place called Whirligigs and they carry more than 45 different kinds of this product. Or you can go to Omaha and every tabbaco shop there caries some sort of this. They all only sell to legal adults. And once again here is another person who is supposed to be a public servant trying to dictate to everyone else how an adult should deport themselves. Did some younger people get the stuff, I am sure that they did. But once again, kids drink and they are not trying to ban booze. As a matter of fact the lawmakers and powers that be, usually take quite a bit of funding from the boozers. Kids get tabbaco too, but you do not see the state banning all tabbaco, They are just a batch of yellow cowards. They do the topical and easy stuff because they do not want to ever have to answer for the hard stuff. Plus they do not want to stop eating at the gravy train. What they are saying by making this law is that you not only can not be trusted to make your own choice, but, you WILL NOT be allowed as an adult to make your own choice.

sinedie 4 years, 11 months ago

Unbelievably irresponsible lawmaking. Voting on this without knowing all the facts, just because it's good politics.

There's a fine line between being tough on crime and dumb on crime. Any time you make a substance illegal, you create an underground market for it, and crime goes hand-in-hand with that. Make no mistake, this bill will create more crime in Kansas.

orbiter 4 years, 11 months ago

"I see this new `legal’ drug as an epidemic that threatens the youth of the state of Kansas,”

hahahahahahahaha. What else do you see, Kenny? You must be on something waaaaay stronger than K2.

Satirical 4 years, 11 months ago

sinedie... "Any time you make a substance illegal, you create an underground market for it, and crime goes hand-in-hand with that. Make no mistake, this bill will create more crime in Kansas."

So by making child pornography illegal, the state is creating an underground market for it, which will create more crime in Kansas. So by your logic child pornography should be legal?

Come up with better arguments.

orbiter 4 years, 11 months ago

sinedie… “Any time you make a substance illegal, you create an underground market for it, and crime goes hand-in-hand with that. Make no mistake, this bill will create more crime in Kansas.”

"So by making child pornography illegal, the state is creating an underground market for it, which will create more crime in Kansas. So by your logic child pornography should be legal?

Come up with better arguments."

--you too Satirical. Child porn a "substance"? Nice try though. I guess a total of two sentences is hard to digest.

sinedie 4 years, 11 months ago

Hi Satirical,

What I described is an inevitable consequence of outlawing substances (or goods). That's exactly what has happened with the war on drugs in the last 40 years. I understand your point, but I think it's obvious why we have laws to protect persons and property - neither of which is at issue here.

If the intent is to protect children, then this substance should be regulated like tobacco and alcohol. I don't think it's the government's job to be my mother and dictate what I can buy/use and what I can't. If we're going to pass laws to help people make good choices, then we need to ban greasy food, soda, and many other things that are "bad for you."

4 years, 11 months ago

Just think of all the sales tax dollars lost on this "incense"!

somedude20 4 years, 11 months ago

and it is cheap enough that people won't have to sell stolen goods to Yellow House for their drug money.

ksjayhawk74 4 years, 11 months ago

There are more than 400,000 smoking related deaths every year in the United States. Cigarettes... still legal...

1029 4 years, 11 months ago

Oh, man....looks like I'm gonna have to go back to my 375ml/day dose of Jim Beam. I hadn't taken a drink or driven drunk since I read that K2 article back on November 4th. Oh well, I knew those ignorant paycheck collectors in Topeka would find a way to make K2 illegal eventually....(Hope I'm still as good of a drunk driver as I was back in '09.)

Stuart Evans 4 years, 11 months ago

Was any opposition called in to testify regarding the safety of this product? Why would we want to place all of our trust in people who's livelihood thrive on prohibition? The more arrests they can make, the more tax dollars are thrown at them. How about an actual debate consisting of factual evidence.

anon1958 4 years, 11 months ago

Legalize pot and tax it like cigarettes. This will cut way back on prison and court costs and generate tax revenue. Tax alcohol even higher and then there is some prospect that people will switch from the greater evil (alcohol) to the lesser evil (pot).

By the way I dont smoke anything, never have except second smoke and have never used any illegal or under the legal radar drugs to get high. Even though I have abstained from getting high or drunk my entire life I still think that pot should be legalized because of the huge criminal enterprise it supports and the law enforcement burden it costs.

If marijuana was legal then there probably would be way less metamphetamine use as well. People are lazy and if a cheap alternative to expensive pot was available then there would likely be fewer property crimes committed to support the purchase of expensive illegal drugs.

Stuart Evans 4 years, 11 months ago

good idea 1029. our laws and our society embrace that type of behavior. sure it's a bit of an inconvenience if you get arrested, but you are not likely to lose your job, insurance, home, car, etc.

http://www.saferchoice.org/

Stuart Evans 4 years, 11 months ago

anon, I agree with most of what you said. I'm not certain about the last paragraph however. I don't think tweekers are more likely to switch to pot because it's cheaper. in fact, meth is probably about the cheapest thing around. and since a meth high is completely different from a pot high, I just don't think the evidence backs up your statement. However, I do think that with legalized marijuana, it will destroy the black market, and likely destroy any gateway that the black market creates.

thelema 4 years, 11 months ago

As Kansas struggles with a budget shortfall and the legislature scrambles to make ends meet with increased taxes, why not try something logical and rational for a change, while not increasing the tax on tobacco or alcohol?

Just like alcohol and tobacco, set an age restriction on this substance and other substances, place a tax on these substances, then collect the new tax revenue.

Why must every substance which is not alcohol or tobacco be demonized and outlawed?

Perhaps if these bureaucrats looked up within the Kansas State Capitol building at the murals and latticework, they would perhaps see some hidden messages from our ancestors:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/historian77/2967998709/

GardenMomma 4 years, 11 months ago

Great! Instead of imposing an age restriction (i.e. cigarettes and alcohol), they will just cut off a potential source of tax revenue!

Tax it like cigarettes ($1.34 a pack) and you will have a nice flow of revenue bolstering up the coffers.

Way to think outside the box!

grammaddy 4 years, 11 months ago

A new substance in the war on drugs! Yay! Let's waste more money!

jonas_opines 4 years, 11 months ago

"So by making child pornography illegal, the state is creating an underground market for it, which will create more crime in Kansas. So by your logic child pornography should be legal?"

This comparison falls flat on its face as soon as you say "child." We've decided as a society that children deserve special protection, and of course no one is saying that this substance should be freely available for children's consumption. Of course, no one in the legislature is saying that we should simply step up enforcement on only selling to legal adults, either.

"Come up with better arguments."

You don't wear bravado or conceit very well.

David Albertson 4 years, 11 months ago

Please! Please! Protect us from ourselves!

lawthing 4 years, 11 months ago

Will it also be banned from being sold on the internet?

If not then people will continue to get it, but the local revenue to the city will be lost.

Godot 4 years, 11 months ago

This is beyond stupid. What a waste of time and effort.

TheBigW 4 years, 11 months ago

Hey maybe we can get some more ARRA money and build some new prisons for the state of Kansas, that way we can have more room for the K2 pushers and users, lock um up and throw away the key!

Just think of all the new jobs we could have building the new state prison system, oh and hey the sand company will have a lot more sand to sell too, oh yea and we can use the new K2 pusher inmates to do crap around town/state, like paint the new train depot and snow removal, win win for everyone!

Man just think, if we imported other states K2 pushers to lock up, for a extra fee of course, we get a hell of a lot more jets to land at the airport too and that will help get more funding to make the airport bigger and to add to the 11.5 million already spent on Lawrence Municipal Airport, you know, for all those jets we get and as Ned says, "those fat cats". :)

Glen Moore 4 years, 11 months ago

Lets make canned air illegal as well since the unattended use of it by people can kill them. Then what will I have to clean out my keyboard with? There are ways of inducing chemicals to your body to get you high. I could ingest alcohol and get belligerent in court as well (sure thats never happened) but still legal. WTH do the uptight law makers really sit around and think about all day? "Lets see if we can figure out a way to make people just as unhappy as possible." WOW!

Frightwig 4 years, 11 months ago

Tell your children! Alert them to the dangers of marihuana! A single puff from a marihuana cigarette can lead to madness. Also, many people who are high on this devil's cabbage think they can fly and soon find themselves jumping out of windows! We must put a stop to this epidemic immediately. The life saved could be yours, or yours, OR YOURS!

Hudson Luce 4 years, 11 months ago

Legislators will find ways to make you unhappy until you find ways to kick them out of office. There's a primary election coming up in April, and a regular election in the fall. I suggest people stop complaining and find a bunch of somebodies to target the people behind this legislation and vote them out of office. Talk is cheap, but it'll get really expensive when all this stuff gets outlawed and people start getting arrested for it, at a minimum cost to them of $3000.00, counting court costs, legal fees, and the $400 KBI lab fee.

sustainabilitysister 4 years, 11 months ago

RIDICULOUS! Kinda like how pot is illegal and alcohol is legal. WTF

Ricky_Vaughn 4 years, 11 months ago

Well, back to keyboard duster I guess.......

cowboy 4 years, 11 months ago

Maybe a yearlong furlough is in order here for the Ks legislature. I am anti drug but you may as well legalize it and let pot users / K2 folks turn their brains to jello legally and tax the stuff. you reduce the court expense , gain a solid , huge revenue stream , take an industry based in mexico and bring it local , start a local based farming opportunity , lower the price , on and on it just makes sense.

emptymind 4 years, 11 months ago

Kids will do stupid things, and we are trying to protect them,” Smith said

What a joke! Tobacco and alcohol kill so many people, yet its money that keeps them legal.

Stuart Evans 4 years, 11 months ago

Cowboy say: I am anti drug but you may as well legalize it and let pot users / K2 folks turn their brains to jello legally


legalize it yes. However, there is no tangible evidence that marijuana damages brain cells in any capacity. In fact, the cannabinoids (THC & others) seem to mimic healthy chemicals which the body creates naturally.

The study, which originally made the claim of brain damage, was done with rhesus monkeys and has since been proven inaccurate. We have got to get the general public past the reefer madness propaganda.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_myth8.shtml

amrose42683 4 years, 11 months ago

It's amazing how capitalistic this society has become. A lot of people are apparently willing to put up the health and welfare of their kids, family members, etc on the line in order to bring in some tax dollars by enabling K2 to stay legal. Why don't you work in the world of addictions and substance abusers/users and then see what you have to say about it? I would imagine that several, not all, but several of the people against this law are those who are smoking it instead of pot to pass their UAs for their POs ... I guess it's back to not using mind altering substances at all or killing your kidneys trying to flush your system every week ... oh shucks!

snitty 4 years, 11 months ago

I have tried K-2. It will not get you more high than, say, a cup of tea.

jonas_opines 4 years, 11 months ago

"Why don't you work in the world of addictions and substance abusers/users and then see what you have to say about it?"

How many smokers of this substance have you met and observed to determine whether you're not being hysterical.

My guess is. . . 0.

sinedie 4 years, 11 months ago

amrose42683:

Why do you assume that making K2 illegal will protect the health of anyone?

If making something illegal made it vanish from this Earth, I'd be on board for all drugs. They are awful and nobody should touch them. Unfortunately that's not what happens. People still get their hands on it, except now it comes along with a giant criminal empire, clogged justice system, etc.

Yes, let's protect children from it, but let's let adults make their own decisions and treat drugs like a medical problem (like alcohol/tobacco addiction), not a criminal one.

amrose42683 4 years, 11 months ago

jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…

"How many smokers of this substance have you met and observed to determine whether you're not being hysterical. My guess is… 0."

Do you really think I would have been ignorant enough to make that comment if I didn't work with that demographic? Think first ... not everyone that disagrees with you is an idiot.

amrose42683 4 years, 11 months ago

deathpenaltyliberal says .... "Yes, it's a capitalistic society. But I prefer to alert my kids to the problems with all substances, and not rely on the govt. to do that."

Yet, if it's to be found that K2 does have longterm side effects or some tragedy (use your imagination) occurs involving kids then people are gonna say "why isn't the gov't (or some agency) doing anything about this?" It's a catch 22 situation. There's going to be plenty of people that complain about the law, and then their will be plenty of people all for it. Such is life.

Stuart Evans 4 years, 11 months ago

Amrose, are you currently treating people with marijuana addicitons? Why were those people brought to your facility? Did they admit themselves, or get sent there by a Judge to avoid jail time? At the time of admittance to treatment, what percentage had smoked or used marijuana in the weeks prior to admission into treatment? As a worker in a treatment facility, can you be satisfied that everyone you "treat" stops using marijuana forever? Aren't you just another agency of the government milking the nation dry with a false sense of security when it comes to dependency treatments?

jonas_opines 4 years, 11 months ago

"Do you really think I would have been ignorant enough to make that comment if I didn't work with that demographic?"

That demographic? You work with open K2 smokers? The stuff has only been out for about two to three months. I'm surprised there are people already addicted to it.

"Think first … not everyone that disagrees with you is an idiot."

Take your own advice.

amrose42683 4 years, 11 months ago

jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…

“Do you really think I would have been ignorant enough to make that comment if I didn't work with that demographic?”

That demographic? You work with open K2 smokers? The stuff has only been out for about two to three months. I'm surprised there are people already addicted to it.

“Think first … not everyone that disagrees with you is an idiot.”

Take your own advice.

Notice how I also used the terms "substance abusers/users" ... not just addicts!

jafs 4 years, 11 months ago

amrose,

The argument for legalization is not that drugs are good for people.

It is that adults in a free society should be free to make their own choices, some of which will be good and some bad.

Also, the hypocrisy that alcohol and cigarettes are legal (and obviously addictive and bad for people) while other choices are illegal bothers some of us.

Finally, the vast and destructive criminal enterprises which are associated with illegal substances would be unnecessary if they were legal, and the damage done by them would stop.

Compare alcohol use (and associated damage) during Prohibition and afterwards. I submit that similar things would happen with other substances.

amrose42683 4 years, 11 months ago

Jafs:

Nothing that I really said disagrees with what you have said ...

In fact, I originally just shared my opinion, and then was criticized for it. I like your intellectual response as opposed to a childish rant by someone who obviously wasn't paying attention to the careful selection of words I used ... thank you:) I am a fan of people RESPECTING the opinions of others, and I do respect yours.

jonas_opines 4 years, 11 months ago

"Notice how I also used the terms “substance abusers/users” … not just addicts!"

So what? There's nothing wrong, on it's own, with using a substance.

"I am a fan of people respecting the opinions of others, and I do respect yours"

If that were true, frankly, then you wouldn't have led off with this:

"A lot of people are apparently willing to put up the health and welfare of their kids, family members, etc on the line in order to bring in some tax dollars by enabling K2 to stay legal. Why don't you work in the world of addictions and substance abusers/users and then see what you have to say about it? I would imagine that several, not all, but several of the people against this law are those who are smoking it instead of pot to pass their UAs for their POs … I guess it's back to not using mind altering substances at all or killing your kidneys trying to flush your system every week … oh shucks!"

There is nothing in there to show that you at all understand respecting other people's opinions, and it's absolutely clear that you did not pay any real attention to the arguments that people were presenting before going off on them. It is, to use your term, the very definition of a childish rant. In one sweeping gesture, you claim that some undefined (and therefore, openly applicable to any of us) number of us don't care about other people's welfare, and that the only issue that we care about is getting high. So pardon me if no, I have absolutely no respect for you or your opinion.

Joker30 4 years, 11 months ago

Absolutely rediculous. "We must save them from themselves". Dear Government, we don't want you to hold our hands or spoon feed us anymore. We are tired of paying you to make our lives difficult. Do you have any idea how expensive it would be to enforce a new drug law for K2?? I thought the American way was "Innocent until proven guilty", but when it comes to the gov, it's "guilty until proven innocent". They say they know nothing about it, but say it could be potentially dangerous for the kids. I know nothing about our gov., and it's been proven the gov is dangerous to our kids (hence the $50K tax debt my 1yr old child has), but the gov is not illegal. I'm going to www.k2herbal.com to buy more k2 before anything happens. Better stock up before it's too late!!

Joker30 4 years, 11 months ago

QUOTE: So by making child pornography illegal, the state is creating an underground market for it, which will create more crime in Kansas. So by your logic child pornography should be legal?

Come up with better arguments.

That's retarded Satirical. If you need the government to tell you child pornography is wrong, you need help. Nobody needs laws to tell us what's right and wrong. The only people who will follow a law are the people who wouldn't have done it anyway. Child pornography laws don't stop child pornography, just like gun laws don't stop shootings. Duhhhhhh

Jcjayhawk1 4 years, 11 months ago

We are struggling with education dollars and these punks value an expensive waste of time more so than the opportunity to create some revenue to save jobs, improve education, and keep food on the table for our teachers.

Man these guys are morons! The senate committee votes approval on K2 in what a matter of months? Yet stand around with their members in their hands doing nothing but passing debt around. That's cheaper than passing out paychecks at least! ......it doesn't cost them anything.

They are selfish, sumg, and don't care.

greenworld 4 years, 11 months ago

Now that this article was wrote, look for every store in downtown Lawrence that sells it to sell out real soon. Also I guess Salvia is still legal or did they skip over it. I mean there is only about 100 different things you can try and smoke. Let's protect our youth. LMAO....As if youths arent going to get into any trouble if they make this drug illegal or not. HAHA

doc1 4 years, 11 months ago

How much money is going to be spent on the government fighting this? How much has been wasted on fighting it now? This law is stupid. Dumb dumb dumb

pace 4 years, 11 months ago

the legislature takes the time to slap grandma's forcing them under a bridge or to the poor folks home and then this. They should of pasted a hefty tax and spent the money on the grandmas

Monica Miller 4 years, 11 months ago

greenworld (Anonymous) says…

"Now that this article was wrote, look for every store in downtown Lawrence that sells it to sell out real soon."

So there's more than one place to get it in town now? Surprised there wasn't another commercial in the LJW for them too.

TopJayhawk 4 years, 11 months ago

amarose 4263 I do work in that field. I have seen drug abuse up close and personal.
I agree this is silly.
I have found it is much less the drugs, and more the pre-existing condition of stupidity, and irresponsiblity.
the whole drug war thing is rediculous. so there.

Golf4Life 4 years, 11 months ago

AreUNorml

you seriously think pot is addictive? you're dumb.

Golf4Life 4 years, 11 months ago

and when does it go into effect i need to stock up on my k2

Stuart Evans 4 years, 11 months ago

Golf4Life.. you seriously think that I would think pot is addictive? how about reading more of what I have written, (or maybe just my screen name) and make a determination about my views and understanding of marijuana, before you label me as "dumb".

clearly I was engaging someone who works in that industry (mental health), and utilizing some of their vernacular to describe marijuana users. it is very common for government agencies to label users as addicts.

you'll be hard pressed to find anyone on these forums who doesn't know my stance on legalizing.

chris20ten 4 years, 9 months ago

They should ban Alcohol you know how many people die everyday from that stuff. But um they should regulate and tax K2 HERB you know like age limit, no driving common sense stuff and if you get caught then you should be punished ticket night in jail. just a thought.

kawrivercrow 4 years, 9 months ago

Coffee Wonk cafe in KC has K2 Summit - 3 gms/$30. Cash only.

MightyMushroom 4 years, 4 months ago

 The fear of consciousness-expanding plants is at least as old as the bible. In Genesis, this fear is thematically expressed as the Fall. The fruit of the tree of knowledge transforms a person into a god. But since we are allowed to worship only one god, no one else can stand on the same level as him (or her?).
 Personally I think there should be an across the board legalization of anything anyone wants to ingest in any way they choose to ingest it. It's time for people to realize this is going on anyway. How many people are spreading disease because they are sharing dirty iv needles? How many are using dangerous unknown combinations of chemicals to get high? This is the true cost of prohibition. Logic tells us that if you could go into a store and buy a known preparation to get your kicks be it an upper or a downer or an all arounder, organized crime would dissapper overnight. Aditionally there would be far fewer deaths from using unkown substances. If people had access to perfectly harmless psychoactive fungi I am sure the meth scourge would dissapper immidiately. The fact is this will probably never happen and the children will continue to be hurt by drug addiction not of themselves but by their parrents, and will be predisposed to addiction problems themselves as a result of their upbringing. I do not advocate prohibition of any sort. Certain people will always be drivin to get high. Drugs are not going to simply disappear because some lawmakers decide to ban them.

jonas_opines 4 years, 4 months ago

Whoa, timewarp. I don't remember smoking any K2 today, so I wonder what's causing it.

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