Advertisement

Archive for Monday, November 2, 2009

Supporters of suspected Tiller killer defy ban, try to hold benefit auction on eBay

Monday morning, eBay took down the items

November 2, 2009, 8:31 a.m. Updated November 2, 2009, 11:40 a.m.

Advertisement

— Online auction house eBay has removed items that were posted for sale by anti-abortion activists trying to raise money for defense of a man accused of killing a Kansas abortion provider, the company said Monday.

Supporters of Scott Roeder — one in Kansas City, Mo., and the other in Des Moines, Iowa — posted various items late Sunday in separate eBay auctions including an Army of God manual, an underground publication for anti-abortion militants that describes ways to shut down clinics.

After about five hours, eBay removed 10 items, activists said. The final two items were removed by late Monday afternoon.

San Jose, Calif.-based eBay said the anti-abortion memorabilia violated its listing polices.

“Today, eBay removed several listings on our site that violated several of our policies including our offensive materials’ policy. This policy prohibits items that promote or glorify hatred, violence, racial, sexual, or religious intolerance, or promote organizations with such views,” eBay said in a statement. The company would not say how many or which items it removed.

Roeder is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the May 31 shooting of Dr. George Tiller at his Wichita church. Anti-abortion activists are trying to raise money for Roeder, who has been appointed public defenders but was considering hiring private lawyers. He has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

Comments

monheim 5 years, 1 month ago

@BlessedSap:

He's entitled to his defense. But Ebay has every right to deny the sale of terrorist paraphernalia on their service. Make no mistake, people who resort to killing/violence to make an ideological statement like this ARE terrorists. Every bit as much so as the ones we're fighting now.

monheim 5 years, 1 month ago

For those of you interested to see the terrorism-condoning paraphernalia, click here:

http://tinyurl.com/yjy7ryc

Just a reminder, if anyone is confused as to how it's possible to be "pro-life" and condone murder at the same time, there is a "ask a question" feature for this seller's items. Just an idea.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 5 years, 1 month ago

It seems a little anti-Liberty to say that it's offensive to raise money for a legal defense fund. He hasn't been convicted of a crime and our system of law says he has a right to a fair trial.

These people, however... they are all insane.

monheim 5 years, 1 month ago

eBay shouldn't prohibit fundraisers for legal defenses on its site, one thing they do prohibit, however, is the sale of items that condone or promote violence, which many of the items for sale by this group do. Such as these item numbers:

200401084956 200401066052 200401110014 200401129574 200401124337 200401143901

Marion, I'm curious. Are you really just playing devil's advocate or are you honestly coming to the defense of terrorist sympathizers?

I'm not trying to use the term "terrorist" to be flippant and get under peoples' skins either. That's what it is, I'm sorry. What's the difference between a Palestinian who blows up a bus of Israelis because he believes Israel is killing innocent people and someone who blows up an abortion clinic because they believe the people working there are killing innocent people? Not a defense of Palestinian terrorism or anything, but...let's get this in perspective here.

Again, this isn't about whether or not people can raise money for this scumbag. I realize they want to and I think they should be able to. But I thought distributing terrorist paraphernalia was illegal...well, at the very least it is certainly against ebay's policies.

remember_username 5 years, 1 month ago

Isn't it illegal to profit from a crime? If so, both items mentioned in the above article are artifacts produced by convicted people and perhaps should not be trafficked for any reason thus e-bay would be right to pull them.

However, if someone wanted to hold an e-bay auction of legitimate items then privately donate the proceeds to any defense fund there would be nothing anybody could or should do to prevent it. It should be obvious that selling items "advertised" to go to the defense fund of an infamous person is a means of raising the value of the items for sale - Capitalism in it's ugly form, but allowed. Maybe the nutcases should try Craig's List, I hear they're less discriminating.

parrothead8 5 years, 1 month ago

OldEnuf2BYurDad (Anonymous) says… It seems a little anti-Liberty to say that it's offensive to raise money for a legal defense fund. He hasn't been convicted of a crime and our system of law says he has a right to a fair trial.

True, but our system of law does not say that a private auction service has to allow people to sell items to provide that fair trial. The provision of a fair trial is up to the court system, not a private auction service.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

ebay stay out of it? what-- is it a municipally held and ran public auction? nope. so i disagree. ebay should be able to do whatever the hell they want to w/ this. and i am glad they pulled them both.

and i agree w/ the first poster... these folks are truly unbalanced and i would venture to add scary.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 1 month ago

I think E Bay should allow the auction. People have the right to support whoever they want. And, anticipating a response, I know that supporting someone who is preparing to commit a terrorist act will entail consequences. As far as someone being on trial I would say that if someone wants to raise money for the defense of this person that it would be legal to do so. And, constitutional.

monheim 5 years, 1 month ago

@Irish:

No offense, but you are completely missing the point. Yes, raising funds for someone's legal defense is constitutionally protected. The problem is the things these people are selling. I think most of the items are down now, but I got a look at them and the items were in violation of eBay's terms of use. There were publications up for sale that specifically promote and condone anti-abortion terror/violence. eBay has every right to take these items down, and I wouldn't be surprised of such items do NOT fall under the umbrella of protected speech.

frank mcguinness 5 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Eride 5 years, 1 month ago

It isn't okay to abort a fetus but it is okay to murder a man in church in front of his friends and family... go figure.

Jimo 5 years, 1 month ago

Larry - those were my exact words: sick puppies!

Question: why isn't the U.S. Attorney getting involved to prosecute those aiding and abetting terrorists?

kmat 5 years, 1 month ago

Irish - Ebay is a private company. They can do whatever they want. Anyone that wants to do anything to help this sick ass murderer is no better than the murderer himself. For Christ's sake, he gunned down a man in church. Haven't you Christians learned to "love thy neighbor" and "judge not lest ye be judged"? I left the church a long time ago because of the hypocracy. Can't walk into a church without running into a hypocrit.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 1 month ago

No, I do not support murderers. I was looking at this from an objective viewpoint. People I do not like or support still have legal rights.

"One is a worn Bible once owned by Shelley Shannon, the Oregon woman who shot and wounded Dr. George Tiller in 1993 and was later convicted in a series of abortion clinic arsons and bombings. The other is a signed Catechism written by Ohio anti-abortion activist Michael Bray after a court judgment against him."

I don't understand what is wrong with the Bible. I haven't read the Catechism so I don't know if it is just a list of why he is against abortion, which is protected speech, or if it exhorts it's readers to commit violence.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 1 month ago

Kmat, I am not judging those who choose to support this man. He has committed a crime and so should be tried in court and sentenced accordingly. Of course, Ebay has the right to operate their business as they choose. I don't know what hypocrite has to do with this. I don't go to church because I like each and every member. I go for my own benefit. Killing should only be done in self defense in a grave emergency.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

why don't they have a bake sale? don't pro-lifers like zucchini bread?

RogueThrill 5 years, 1 month ago

Is it ever OK to kill in order to protect innocents that are unable to protect themselves?

There are no innocents, remember? You guys invented original sin.

ku_tailg8 5 years, 1 month ago

I understand the right to a fair trial but the political correctness is beginning to go overboard. I can see why media outlets go out of their way to say "alleged" when they are talking about suspects but I don't need a trial to know this guy is a killer. Heck, he isn't even saying he didn't do it. His defense is going to be something lame about killing to save future lives.

Ebay has every right to do what they want with their site. Just because he hasn't been convicted in a court of law doesn't make this guy any less of a killer. There are witnesses and he did it in broad daylight. Thats all I need. None of the hijackers who died on 9/11 have been convicted in a court of law so how come you PC folk don't call them alleged killers?

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

^^^ i know, right? i can't wait to see what this genius' defense is. oh... wait... lemme guess... "god told me to do it!", right?

ferrislives 5 years, 1 month ago

RogueThrill (Anonymous) says…

"Is it ever OK to kill in order to protect innocents that are unable to protect themselves?"

Nope, and that's why that movement is completely hypocritical. They advocate murder to stop murder, and that's why they will never be taken seriously within any moral society.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

blessed, wasn't that the premise of angelina jolie's last movie?

lay off the netflix, homey.

Thinking_Out_Loud 5 years, 1 month ago

ku_tailg8 wrote "...I don't need a trial to know this guy is a killer. Heck, he isn't even saying he didn't do it. His defense is going to be something lame...."

Which would pretty much eliminate tailg8 from being able to sit on the jury, if s/he was in the proper jurisdiction.

puddleglum 5 years, 1 month ago

i think we should chop up ebay and divide all of its earnings amongst the people of the u.s.

go team!

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

bottom line, like i stated earlier as did others, ebay is a private company and can list what ever the eff it wants to. you can also buy some jim crow era black-faced mammy looking salt shakers as well, however as far as i know, their earnings are not going to fund the KKK. if they are then atleast the KKK is clever enough to not publicize that fact.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

deathpenalty, how can we presume that roeder is innocent when HE doesn't even TRY to act like or claim that he is??! he hasn't even denied doing what he did-- he explains it all away by being a tool of god-- but he doesn't deny it.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

^^^ i don't know-- i'm not a lawyer. but that would be discrimination against skin color (race/ethnicity) and not belief.

i can't speak for them, but it looks like they are refusing to leave these items listed because of the implied crime (murder) that the proceeds from these sales will be funding. innocent before proven guilty, yeh-- i know. but, like i said in an earlier post, its not like roeder has been professing his innocence ("innocence" as in he didn't do it at all-- not that he was "justified" in doing it).

also, if ebay or any other online auction site wanted to discriminate against the owners of items because of skin color, how in the world would they go about finding out what race someone is?

and agnostick, i think you just stumbled upon something there, my friend. i smell something rotten in the county of sedwick.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"So if you travelled back in time and had a chance to kill Hitler in 1928 you couldn’t justify it."

Would killing Hitler have had some effect on the postwar (WWI) destruction and conditions that allowed a fascist maniac like Hitler to gain power? If not, I suggest that the only result would be that someone else would have taken his place. The world is full of maniacs with strong opinions, some of whom have great rhetorical skills. (preemptive: Yargh teh Obamaz!!) The only thing most of them lack is absolute power.

"EBay may live to regret taking political positions on certain auctions soon it might be every auction they have."

You must live in a colorful world of delusion.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Also, it's truly amazing how abortion can totally change the conception or perception of anything. Remove abortion from this issue's equation, and there would be no support at all.

Sulla 5 years, 1 month ago

Some Satanic liberal baby-hating necrophiliac cabal set poor old Roeder up. He was a Manchurian candidate patsy of the above, brainwashed to do the dirty deed to discredit the pro-life movement and they're probably the same minions who made 9-11 an inside job too....

kmat 5 years, 1 month ago

Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

“One is a worn Bible once owned by Shelley Shannon, the Oregon woman who shot and wounded Dr. George Tiller in 1993 and was later convicted in a series of abortion clinic arsons and bombings. The other is a signed Catechism written by Ohio anti-abortion activist Michael Bray after a court judgment against him.”

I don't understand what is wrong with the Bible. I haven't read the Catechism so I don't know if it is just a list of why he is against abortion, which is protected speech, or if it exhorts it's readers to commit violence.


They aren't just "selling a bible". They're selling the bible of one of their "martyrs". this is a woman that has committed so many terrible crimes. Google her and see what you think after you read about her.

I can't for the life of me understand anyone that would support the tactics that Army of God and Operation Rescue and still call themselves a Christian. If you are against abortion, then you work within the system to change the laws. But no, too many of you support murder, harrassment and all these sick f*cks that only live by the "eye for an eye" rule. There are a lot of you that only practice a portion of what the New Test. teaches you. Did Jesus go about killing those that did wrong? No!!! I've always loved the idiots wearing the WWJD junk because most of you don't do diddly sqwat of what Jesus taught.

Sulla 5 years, 1 month ago

jonas_opines: No, there wouldn't had been a Nazi Germany without Hitler and doubt anyone could had taken his place and unleashed the carnage that he did. It would had been better if Adolf's momma would had taken the rusty coathanger when she was knocked up with him.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

^^ love the manchurian candidate reference. nice. and that's one that blessed will understand since it is a movie.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

I'm gonna have to disagree, Sulla. There were plenty of other figures in Germany who may (or may not) have done the same, though perhaps to a lesser degree. Either way, Hitler's rise to power would probably not have happened without the particular historic placement of the post-war poverty and disorder. Well-fed, secure people don't follow warmongering dictators, for the most part.

They might not have been the Nazis, of course. But a name is only that.

nonbeliverofprint 5 years, 1 month ago

I just don't understand all of this. I wish someone would explain it to me. So, its not ok to kill an unborn child but it is ok to to kill an adult??? Whats wrong with this picture?

Sulla 5 years, 1 month ago

jonas_opines: I respectfully disagree as well:Germany probably would had got an authoritarian military dictatorship but none of the militarists in the officer corps were daft enough to think they could have a continental conquest. The Jews and other minorities probably wouldn't had suffered anymore than they had under the Kaiser. None of the other right-wing nutter parties in the Weimar Republic had the charisma or the talent that Hitler had to take a back beer hall movement and forge it into a major party.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Sulla: Well, I suppose the great thing about making predictions on alternative historical timelines is the lack of accountability for our predictions. That's why I'm right.

hahaha

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"You see progressive moral relativism has given people large grey areas in the morality of their actions."

Errr. . . . right. Too bad the only alternative is to randomly and arbitrarily pick one moral code and hold to it with a death grip. Most everybody I've heard that complains about moral relativism, for some reason, seems to think that the only appropriate moral or ethical code for everybody to follow is, coincidentally, the one that they happen to hold.

Connacht 5 years, 1 month ago

Well, if I ever doubted that I was on the right side of the abortion question, this article pretty much clinches it.

aequitas 5 years, 1 month ago

This is the bottom line -

All the "would you kill Hitler, Tim McVeigh" arguments are pretty much moot given the fact that they both performed highly ILLEGAL acts. Like it or not our Government has decided that the services George Tiller provided were LEGAL, thus killing Tiller makes Roeder a criminal rather than a hero in most resonable people's minds. This isn't the Wild West. I can't go shooting up a movie theater because I don't agree with the morality of the films they are showing. Give me a break.

eBay has the right to refuse listing these items because their SOLE APPEAL is that they were owned by someone whom they believe are "warriors of God" (actually criminals under our laws) and murdered people.

BrianR 5 years, 1 month ago

They are supporting a domestic terrorist, this is a no-brainer.

Sulla 5 years, 1 month ago

BlessedSap: where did you study history, pray tell(no pun)?

Jimo 5 years, 1 month ago

"Tiller was a baby killer."

And fully sanctioned by the people of this state, who are but "Little Eichmanns" in the eyes of these crazies.

Amazing isn't it that our own domestic terrorists' arguments and justifications are word for word the same as Islamist terrorists.

Where are you going to hide when the Kansas Taliban come hunting for you?

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

I doubt there are many decent posts to sift through with this topic. So I'm gonna 'gamble' and skip it. But to the story: despicable.

Katara 5 years, 1 month ago

honeychild (Mel Briscoe) says…

why don't they have a bake sale? don't pro-lifers like zucchini bread? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ They could always sell cookies.

http://www.stupid.com/fun/FETS.html

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"Innocent until proven guilty. The man plead not guilty. It appears in the new socialist America that innocents is no longer guaranteed."

Chuckle. (That's all that is worth, being totally irrelevant. Just a chuckle)

"The items selling on ebay are not owned by the defendant and the defendant is making no money from it. I see no problem with it. I'm surprised that no one has posted a link to the defense fund."

You own Ebay? No? Then why do we care that you see no problem with it? The people who own Ebay see a problem with it. Denying them the ability to have a problem with it practically makes you a capitalist interventionist, doesn't it? (Or, at least it would if you had any ability to enforce your will, which you don't)

"If the guy is found guilty then he must face the consequences of his actions. Until then he should receive a robust defense, the best that money can buy."

And Ebay is to be coerced against the will of their owners to act as the host and intermediary in raising his money for him, because he and his family/friends/supporters Just Can't Do It for themselves?

You picked a good name. You'd make a great Maoist. Ideological support above all.

Mel Briscoe 5 years, 1 month ago

honeychild applauds for aequitas

very very well said!

remember_username 5 years, 1 month ago

Jaywalker - "I doubt there are many decent posts to sift through with this topic. So I'm gonna 'gamble' and skip it." - but you'll miss some good ones, see below.

Irish - "Killing should only be done in self defense in a grave emergency" - Nice pun.

Jonus - "So is god" - nice riposte.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.