Archive for Friday, February 20, 2009

Backers of “In God We Trust” license plate get $10,000 break from state

February 20, 2009

Advertisement

— Supporters of “In God We Trust” license plates got a $10,000 fee break from the Kansas House on Friday.

House Bill 2134 would allow the “In God We Trust” license plate to be produced without the required upfront fee of $10,000 paid to the Division of Vehicles of the Kansas Department of Revenue.

The fee is traditionally required to help cover the cost of producing distinctive license plates, which are usually sponsored by a group or organization as a fundraising tool.

But state Rep. Virgil Peck, R-Tyro, said because there wasn’t a specific organization pushing the “In God We Trust” plates, the money couldn’t be raised.

Peck, however, said there are many people interested in getting the plates.

Officials said that under the bill, the cost of the $10,000 for the first run of 2,000 plates will be funded by the Kansas Department of Transportation, and that money will be replaced as plates are ordered. Peck said the plates will make money for the state. A bill to allow the plates was approved last year.

But some lawmakers didn’t like the idea.

State Rep. Don Myers, R-Derby, said he supported the “In God We Trust” plate, but that it wasn’t fair to exempt it from the fee while making other groups pay. He said he had to tell a constituent who wanted to start a distinctive plate for Gold Star families, who have had a loved one killed in war, that under state law they would have to pay the start-up fee.

The bill to exempt the “In God We Trust” plate from the fee was approved on an 87-31 vote and now goes to the Senate for consideration.

Comments

blindrabbit 6 years, 2 months ago

Anyone for "Budda", "Allah", "Darwin", "Shiva" or "Common Sense"; why don't we be fair or better yet promote nothing that polarizes people. Only re-inforces the "Bigoted as you Think" moniker the State has now! Also promotes "separation" rather than "inclusion". Goes along with the following: "yellow brick road", "toto", "not in Kansas anymore", "flat", "featureless", "low minimum wages", oh, I almost forgot Dorothy.

By the way, one of our "illustrious" religiously bigoted Kansans has been refused a visa to enter Great Britian; could that possibly be Fred Phelps and clan.

Kryptenx 6 years, 2 months ago

Kansas - evolution and the separation of church and state doesn't mean sh*t to us. Sigh...

sgl8888 6 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like the R's voted with their social conservatism hand rather than their fiscal one. But do they even have a fiscal one to begin with?

What a great news day! Topeka library promotes censorship and now this.

Haiku_Cuckoo 6 years, 2 months ago

"Anyone for “Budda”, “Allah”..." "How about “In the Flying Spaghetti Monster We Trust?”

If those are your gods, then this plate covers those entities. After all, it doesn't say "In Jesus We Trust", does it?

I'm against this plate though. I don't like mixing religion and government.

ilikestuff 6 years, 2 months ago

I think its fine especially given its historical context. I encourage those who feel slighted or offended to exercise their freedom responsibly & change it.

gccs14r 6 years, 2 months ago

This is going to cost the taxpayers a small fortune when someone sues and wins. It was already not going to pass constitutional muster, but to give it State support by exempting the normal fee makes the case against it a slam dunk.

Calliope877 6 years, 2 months ago

Haiku_Cuckoo (Anonymous) says…

“Anyone for “Budda”, “Allah”…” “How about “In the Flying Spaghetti Monster We Trust?” ––- If those are your gods, then this plate covers those entities. After all, it doesn't say “In Jesus We Trust”, does it?

Buddha isn't a god... not trying to be an @sshole btw.

KS 6 years, 2 months ago

What a great idea. Just a little bit of excitement for those nonbelievers of anything. I wonder how much trust Ted Kennedy has in God right now? Instead of telling Mary Jo that "we will cross that bridge when we get to it", he is going to get to explain the whole mess to her face to face. Ops! He just might go the other way. Very soon.

Tony Kisner 6 years, 2 months ago

The State will need to bank all of the revenue from these plates in order to defend this in court.

blindrabbit 6 years, 2 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

NoSpin 6 years, 2 months ago

There are other states with similar if not exactly the same license plate(Indiana for one). How much does it really cost to make a tin plate? We pay a lot in personal property taxes anyway. Why are people so against having the word God on a license plate? I guess others can get change we believe in tags to offset. Putting your trust in someone who has no experience explains the attitudes. If it should cost $10K then so be it. That is probably the fair thing to do.

Boston_Corbett 6 years, 2 months ago

Since the words "One Nation Under God" were added only relatively recently to the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe we can find some guidance there for this "In God We Trust" dilemma.

Those added words to the Pledge were the result of a national campaign by the Knights of Columbus to lobby Congress to formalize the Pledge as a government approved mantra in the 1950's.....with a non-secular twist.

This campaign helped change the Civil War era pledge of loyalty to a national republic over loyalty to one's state, to one of nationalistic superiority over all those godless communist states.

Anyway, since Rep. Peck thinks there is no organization to coordinate and come up with the $10,000, may I suggest he bill the Knights of Columbus.

Meanwhile, I will continue to give my Pledge of Allegiance as originally authored, not as a bunch of idiot congressmen edited it for their own political purposes.

jayhawkbarrister 6 years, 2 months ago

Without a plate, they won't be able to drive. . . . hey, we may be onto something here. Requiring people to pay up front en masse to have a license plate (wouldn't a bumper sticker be cheaper?) with specific words on it, and they can't drive until 20,000 others also sign up, would be an automobile safety campaign, not a trampling of the 1st Amendment Establishment clause.

webmocker 6 years, 2 months ago

In this economic climate we can waive a $10,000 fee for a random group of people who don't care enough to organize for the vanity plates that they want? Conservative fiscal behavior? I think not.

KS 6 years, 2 months ago

A lot of people posting here that need to crawl back under their rock.

TacoBob 6 years, 2 months ago

What's wrong with having the wording that is on all our legal tender on a license plate?

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

tacobob: Nothing's wrong with it, the problem is giving them exceptions that nobody else gets.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

(but it is highly representative of most of the complaints that I see about "religious persecution" of Christians, which when examined usually ends up being revocation of their special privelages)

KLATTU 6 years, 2 months ago

They seem to be inferring that the state will recoup more than the $10,000. I think they should come up with more profitable slogans. Everybody else is selling advertising space.

gccs14r 6 years, 2 months ago

I think "In God We Trust" should not be on our currency.

Flap Doodle 6 years, 2 months ago

"In God we trust, everybody else pays cash."

tin 6 years, 2 months ago

Never ceases to amaze me how intolerant people are, what's the big deal about a license plate with In God We Trust.
Someone please explain to me how that causes you any distress?

I swear the one's who preach tolerance for all seem to be the ones who are the least tolerant.

blindrabbit 6 years, 2 months ago

tin: The problem is governmental sanctioning (or even mentioning) of any belief system; be it Christian, Judaism, Hindi, Buddhism, Muslemism, agnosticism, and atheism, etc. Remember these concepts are based on "faith" ,"trust" and "control" and do not stand up to "proof" and/or even "theory" when exposed to scientific methodologies. Therefore for a non-believer or skeptic, the State is ramming something down ones throat, Remember, the reason the signers of the Constitution were so adament about the "separation of church and state" was that they had left a European continent that had been such controlled for many centuries.

How would you react if Kansas plates mentioned some form of paganism. Druidism has gained some increased following recently.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

tin: Go back to Tacobob's post that also incorrectly states the problem people are having, then go back and read the responses again.

Danimal 6 years, 2 months ago

Gold Star families, Purple Heart, and Bronze and Silver Star recipients and veterans all have to pay for their plates, but someone who wants an over-used slogan from the dollar bill on their license plate can get theirs for free. People will never cease to find new ways to disgust me.

This dovetails nicely with the out-of-state grandchildren of KU alums getting in-state tuition, while veterans get no tuition waivers.

Yay, America!

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 2 months ago

Mr. Peck, and apparently 86 other legislators, have no problem changing the rules for groups they deem worthy.

The law should apply equally to all in a society ruled by law. This is an example of "rule of men" rather than "rule of law".

It is within the purview of the legislature to pass this law, and it is also in the purview of the courts to judge its constitutionality.

"In God We Trust" was not on our money until the mid-20th century. "Under God" was not in our Pledge of Allegiance until around the same time.

Our country survived just fine for 150 years without them. Their constitutionality is very suspect and should be tried.

TacoBob 6 years, 2 months ago

Actually started being placed on money in the the 19th century, not the 20th.

My first blog comment was pertaining to the issue of placing this phrase on a license plate, and whether or not it was appropriate, not about the use of state funds to do so. I think it is appropriate. Not sure that with the budget issues of late that state funds should be spent on this or any other issue like it.

On a side note, It would be nice if folks understood what separation of church and state really means and where it originated. Constantly be used in the wrong context.

Logan5 6 years, 2 months ago

Could this be a clandestine attempt by atheists to force the issue in front of the supreme court? Did someone perhaps plant the idea to some puny minded right winger knowing they'd take the ball and run with it? Kansas would be the perfect place to do it.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 2 months ago

The equality of the law issue aside.

This is yet another prime example of the insecurity most xtians have in their faith.

For them it is not enough to simply believe. They must demonstrate to all that they are believers and force it down others' throats.

Why not have faith in your faith? This showmanship and hucksterism is really debasing.

sourpuss 6 years, 2 months ago

The more you wear your faith on your sleeve, the less you have in your heart.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

"My first blog comment was pertaining to the issue of placing this phrase on a license plate, and whether or not it was appropriate, not about the use of state funds to do so."

Except that the issue here is use of state funds to do so, or the exemption for particular rules, not about the usage of the words on a license plate, which makes your comment off topic, if not a strawman.

"I think it is appropriate."

Great.

"On a side note, It would be nice if folks understood what separation of church and state really means and where it originated. Constantly be used in the wrong context."

Kind of like Biblical Ceremonial Law or something?

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

Nothing, of course. Why would right-thinker try and stay on topic when he could post potentially inflammatory and insulting fluff instead.

womanwarrior 6 years, 2 months ago

blindrabbit (Anonymous) says… Tom: Ain't Linwood in Leavenworth County, not Douglas and Lawrence. Maybe you should blog the Leavenworth Times; boy, that place is full of conservative whacko's. Of course our former State Senator did not know which county he was in.

My brother rented a place in Linwood 5 years ago, and he said that it's full of meth dealers, because the tax payers are too cheap to hire police. But I guess Tommy boy would call the free enterprise.

RedwoodCoast 6 years, 2 months ago

Just another example of Christian hegemony in our government.

storm 6 years, 2 months ago

The license plates are to ward off shopping-carts in the parking lot, no big deal. When you shop, simply place your cart next to the car with the god tag.

maetl 6 years, 2 months ago

Ooooooh, religion, don't touch this one!!!!

Yeah, I want a "in Allah we trust" license plate, but you know what? I need to put money in more important places right now than in silly vanity license plates. I.E. food for my family, or fuel in the tank so I can go to work, or materials to repair clothing because we can't afford to buy new ones right now.

WTF!? $10,000 buys a lot of food, a lot of fuel, a lot of clothes.

But it's for JESUS!!! We need these plates!!!

There's no argument here, this sh*t is stupid.

6 years, 2 months ago

How about the representatives & senators that vote for this bill put up the $10,000? Once that amount is met they get THEIR money back rather than uninterested taxpayers!

tunahelper 6 years, 2 months ago

all you devil worshippers (leftists) are gonna burn in hell.

TacoBob 6 years, 2 months ago

JO, agreed, I was off topic. Not trying to build and tear down a strawman, just threw in a comment without much context myself.

On topic - don't spend state money like this. Fund it privately. Even in good economic times, private funding is the way to go.

notajayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

"That should have read Legislators. Let them use their own money for once to buy votes."

You mean like the Dems, Be.O.? Gee, $10,000 compared to the trillion or so (for a start) that the Dems used to buy your vote - seems like a bargain.


yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

"This is yet another prime example of the insecurity most xtians have in their faith."

"For them it is not enough to simply believe. They must demonstrate to all that they are believers and force it down others' throats."

Except, as usual, nightmare, it's you doing the whining, not them. You're so insecure you're threatened if a few thousand of the 2.5 million license plates in Kansas have the word God on them. (Stay farther back from the bumper of the car in front of you, and you won't even notice.) It's not enough for you to a non-believer, you have to b___h and moan to keep anyone else from expressing theirs. Poor little child, how do you ever manage to get the courage to leave mommy's basement when you're so threatened by other peoples' beliefs? (Oh, wait, you don't...)


You don't like the plates? Don't buy one. Don't like the legislature giving them an exemption? Fine, vote them out. Of course, that's not going to happen, since the whiny liberal secularists in Lawrence have just a tiny, tiny voice in state-wide politics.

Thank God.

rusty2 6 years, 2 months ago

down with vanity plates! in this case a discriminatory 'preference' for evangelicals.

rusty2 6 years, 2 months ago

what would the founding fathers do?

pretty sure that they would allow the plates but with no discounted fee. they were deists but didn't want to promote a particular belief.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 2 months ago

Men in the legislature deciding to whom the law does and does not apply.

This goes against rule of law and is rather an example of "rule of men" so abhorrent to the framers of our constitutions, state and national.

A modest example, but an example nonetheless.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

"You don't like the plates? Don't buy one. Don't like the legislature giving them an exemption? Fine, vote them out. Of course, that's not going to happen, since the whiny liberal secularists in Lawrence have just a tiny, tiny voice in state-wide politics.

Thank God."

In other words, might makes right, eh? Let's just forget about any notions of fairness, fundamental error, or misconduct and just make this a question of likes and dislikes.

Pathetic, even as response.

staff04 6 years, 2 months ago

A man arrives at the gates of Heaven.

St. Peter asks, "Religion?"

"Methodist," the man says.

St. Peter looks down his list, and says, "Go to Room 24, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8."

Another man arrives at the gates of Heaven.

"Religion?"

"Baptist."

"Go to Room 18, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8."

A third man arrives at the gates.

"Religion?"

"Jewish."

"Go to Room 11, but be very quiet as you pass Room 8."

The man says, "I can understand there being Different rooms for different religions, but why must we all be quiet when we pass Room 8?"

"Well, the Catholics are in Room 8," St. Peter replies, "and they think they're the only ones here."

notajayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…

"Pathetic, even as response."

Ah, poor little jonas. Being forced to have the word 'God' on his license plate. Oh, wait, nobody is doing any such thing.

Speaking of pathetic, jonas, while we're on the subject of 'fundamental error,' the 1st Amendment says that states will not promote a religion, but also that they won't restrict the expression of religious beliefs, either. Nobody is saying you have to have these words on your own license plate, it's you that's saying that other people can't.

Your own particular brand of 'might makes right,' jonas, is nothing more than bullying. The tiny few who don't like the fact that the majority of their fellow citizens hold an opinion that differs from theirs are trying to prevent that majority from having the freedom to express that opinion. You're right - you really are pathetic.

To echo a sentiment being thrown around quite liberally (pun intended) on these message boards since the election, the majority has spoken - deal with it.

Logan5 6 years, 2 months ago

Will the legislature be so quick to approve the same legislation in support of other religions?

In Allah we trust

In Jesus we trust

In Mother Nature we trust

We trust in no God!

In the Flying Spaghetti Monster we trust

In Darwin we trust

Where does it all stop?

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

"To echo a sentiment being thrown around quite liberally (pun intended) on these message boards since the election, the majority has spoken - deal with it."

One more time. . . please, please try and keep up.

With the exception of one or two posters on here who obviously take any chance to yell about religion, there has not been a stance from me or most people on here suggesting that having the words on your license plate should not be allowed, so you are either not reading, dodging the issue, throwing up a strawman argument, or simply being dishonest in stating that this is the concern. This has been brought up about 4 times on this thread already.

Repeat after me. The problem is granting them an exception. The problem is granting them an exception. The problem is granting them an exception. The problem is granting them an exception.

Giving them an exception Is the promotion of a religion over all the others, which as you yourself point out goes directly against the 1st Amendment.

The majority has not, in fact, spoken on this. If the majority had spoken in any way, the exception provided to them by the State (not the majority) would not have been necessary, as they would have found the private backers to pay the up-front fee, As Everybody Else Is Required To Do.

You are wrong, by your own argument. Sorry to have to embarrass you like this, but if you actually paid attention it might not have come to this.

denak 6 years, 2 months ago

I don't think there should be an exception made for this license plate.

First, the state needs that money right now. Ten thousand dollars is a lot of money and I don't see why the state has to absorb the cost.

Two, but since no money was put up front, then I think the license plate should cost 2-5 dollars more than other vanity plates in order to make up the cost.

Dena

Ralph Reed 6 years, 2 months ago

The only issue I have is that the state waived the $10K buy-in fee. I would have no problems if they reinstated the buy-in fee or reimbursed the other organizations their respective buy-in fees. Everything else is moot.

We quite frankly have many greater things with which to concern ourselves that what's ON a license plate. It smacks of fiscal irresponsibility (not to mention favoritism) to waive one group's buy-in fee and not waive another's.


Tom Shewmon, your 1048 on 21 Feb was rather interesting. Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) wrote… "When will the secular-progressive zealots demand we do away before Christ, anno Domini and the entire concept of the Gregorian Calendar (Christian calendar) on which it is based and the entire world uses?"


Just a couple of comments. BCE and CE, which initially were used primarily in theological writings, are becoming more common place in their use. So, they've been around quite a while. The entire world doesn't use the Gregorian Calendar: Mayan Calendar, Buddhist Calendar, Jewish Calendar; Muslim Calendar, Luner Calendar and so on. The Gregorian Calendar was not devoloped as a "Christian calendar," but was simply derived from the Julian Calendar "...restoring the vernalequinox at least to an average of the 20th of March, close to what it had been at the time of the Council of Nicea." (http://galileo.rice.edu/chron/gregorian.html) In essence, the Gregorian Calendar was established to remove the embarrassment of Easter moving further and further back in the year.


Tom, I seldom agree with what you write, but I like the fact that you self-identify yourself. Hence, no tag-line this time.


Links (interesting reading): The Galileo Project http://galileo.rice.edu/chron/gregorian.html

Religious Tolerance. Org http://www.religioustolerance.org/ce.htm

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

"I like the fact that you self-identify yourself. Hence, no tag-line this time."

You think it makes you any less anonymous to put up your real name? I'm afraid I've never heard of you outside of this forum.

Personally, I call it more egotism than bravery, but you're of course free to disagree.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

. . . and if you legitimately think it makes any difference to know my name you're welcome to ask. I doubt, however, that you'll have heard of me either.

jakebreaker 6 years, 2 months ago

What a joke.

The idea that the "In God We Trust" license plates could be manufactured is ludicrous in more ways than one. I'm disgusted at how, with things being the way they are, the Kansas Department of Transportation is willing to spend $10,000 of public money for no damn reason. I'd wager $10,000 of my OWN money that the KS government, still suffering from the red-faced embarrassment of being responsible for the most successful parody of religious ideology, is transparently trying to test church/state separation laws one more time. Considering the history of such failed ventures in the past, and considering the KS government is suggesting furlough plans to deal with its own economic struggles, is it really worth $10k just to open the KS government to a possible legal battle, wasting even MORE taxpayer money? Don't answer. Knowing Kansans, I suspect someone would begin their answer with that drawn-out, "Well...."

situveux1 6 years, 2 months ago

I'm surprised this was approved. What good do the plates do if the state pays for them? If no one group is pushing for them, then maybe someone should form a group to get the $10,000.

blindrabbit 6 years, 2 months ago

Let the State go ahead with this stupid idea; the real cost will become apparent when the courts get involved. Would it be considered a defacing of "the God plate" if someone was to apply a Darwin, a Budda, a Bubba, or perhaps a Alfred E. Newman on top of the holy moniker???? The embossed sticky tape names are endless.

notajayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

blindrabbit (Anonymous) says…

"Let the State go ahead with this stupid idea; the real cost will become apparent when the courts get involved. Would it be considered a defacing of “the God plate” if someone was to apply a Darwin, a Budda, a Bubba, or perhaps a Alfred E. Newman on top of the holy moniker???? The embossed sticky tape names are endless."

In case you weren't up to speed, the plates themselves were approved some time ago. Nobody has challenged them, and they are no different than those in other states.. As for whether you can paste another name over the 'moniker,' blind, it's the stupidity of that idea that's endless - why would you order the plate (and pay extra for it) in the first place if you didn't want that appearing on the plate?

spammer89 6 years, 2 months ago

I may be a christian but that to me is pushing what you or I believe in on others. I guess it could be freedom of speech but will that open it up for other tags as well. We opted for the Cancer tags on our cars.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

"I have become a bit too reactionary as a result of the remarkable comments I've been reading for 4 or so years now."

[chortle] Let's not be dishonest. You started out virtually the same as you are now. Of course, that's admittedly unprovable since your first profile got yanked by the online staff for crossing the line too many times. But you'd look less deceitful if you'd man up and admit it.

dumas 6 years, 2 months ago

I don't care what the plate says. This sets a bad presidence. The rule was in place for a purpose. If there was no specific group wanting the plate, it would have been easy to still raise the funds. Just appoint someone the head of the spearheading group and start a Web site so people can make donations. In today's age of technology the excuse of not being able to raise funds isn't a good enough one in this case. And yeah ... maybe the plates will pay for themselves. Fine. But if you do this for this license plate ... the legislature is now going to have to do it for everyone. This is B.S.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

"But if you do this for this license plate … the legislature is now going to have to do it for everyone."

But they won't.

notajayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…

"With the exception of one or two posters on here who obviously take any chance to yell about religion, there has not been a stance from me or most people on here suggesting that having the words on your license plate should not be allowed,"

And

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

"nota, what is it that causes the right wing's reading comprehension to fail at any mention of religion? The only complaint here has been, why was an exemption allowed?"

Uh huh. Somebody has some reading comprehension problems. Let's review:


blindrabbit (Anonymous) says…

Anyone for “Budda”, “Allah”, “Darwin”, “Shiva” or “Common Sense”; why don't we be fair or better yet promote nothing that polarizes people. Only re-inforces the “Bigoted as you Think” moniker the State has now! Also promotes “separation” rather than “inclusion”

and later:

The problem is governmental sanctioning (or even mentioning) of any belief system; be it Christian, Judaism, Hindi, Buddhism, Muslemism, agnosticism, and atheism, etc. ... How would you react if Kansas plates mentioned some form of paganism. Druidism has gained some increased following recently.

and still later:

Would it be considered a defacing of “the God plate” if someone was to apply a Darwin, a Budda, a Bubba, or perhaps a Alfred E. Newman on top of the holy moniker???? The embossed sticky tape names are endless.

Kryptenx (Anonymous) says…

Kansas - evolution and the separation of church and state doesn't mean sh*t to us. Sigh…

Boston_Corbett (Anonymous) says…

Since the words “One Nation Under God” were added only relatively recently to the Pledge of Allegiance, maybe we can find some guidance there for this “In God We Trust” dilemma. ...

gccs14r (Anonymous) says…

I think “In God We Trust” should not be on our currency.

TacoBob (Anonymous) says…

My first blog comment was pertaining to the issue of placing this phrase on a license plate, and whether or not it was appropriate,

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

This is yet another prime example of the insecurity most xtians have in their faith.

For them it is not enough to simply believe. They must demonstrate to all that they are believers and force it down others' throats.

RedwoodCoast (Anonymous) says…

Just another example of Christian hegemony in our government.

staff04 (Anonymous) says…

A man arrives at the gates of Heaven. ...

jakebreaker (Anonymous) says…

The idea that the “In God We Trust” license plates could be manufactured is ludicrous in more ways than one.

spammer89 (Anonymous) says…

I may be a christian but that to me is pushing what you or I believe in on others. I guess it could be freedom of speech but will that open it up for other tags as well.

[continued]

notajayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

[continued]

Oh, and let's not forget Be.O.'s own:

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

"Personally, I think all of these vanity plates should be outlawed. and not allowed."

Yep, Be.O., nobody complained about anything other than the money. And jonas, I don't know which is worse: Your reading comprehension or your inability to count past 'one or two."

Hey, Be.O and jonas, if you want to go curl up somewhere together and have a private conversation limited to what you think the topic is, feel free. Otherwise, "… please, please try and keep up."

tom_bodett 6 years, 2 months ago

Question:

Where in the US Constitution is the "Seperation of Church and State" mentioned?

Not being a smart a**, I would actually like to know.

notajayhawk 6 years, 2 months ago

"“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Read it yourself. Particularly the second half. Nobody is saying you have to put one of those optional plates on your car. You want to keep other people from doing so.

Allowing the option of expressing a belief that they already hold isn't 'establishing' anything. Denying them the opportunity to do so IS in violation of the 1st Amendment.

dumas 6 years, 2 months ago

All this did was open the door to a challenge on the rule.

Just watch ... the Westboro Baptist Church will want a special plate that says something like "God Hates America" and use this situation as an opportunity as a way to push buttons. The church will do knowing it will be denied and so a lawsuit can be filed ... which will then gather more media attention.

It's just one of the stories that could result of the legislature's actions. It's really annoying. These people are elected and lack any sense of the possible rammifications of their actions.

The 87 legislators who voted in favor of this would have been better off donating money to the cause and getting one of these plates if they are that interested in it. If they all would have just donated $50 each for the cause just $3,350 more would need to be raised. That would be cheaper than a possible lawsuit.

blindrabbit 6 years, 2 months ago

Notajayhawk: To keep this silliness going; I'm savy enough to not to suggest buying "a god plate" and then tapeing over it. Nor am I suggesting that there might be some pranksters out there; kind of like the "red noses" on the deer crossing signs. I would not dare tempt fate less a bolt of lightning strike me.

Based on your last blog, would you advocate allowing any slogan as long as it did not deny freedom of speech. Maybe the State could sell the space to individuals to promote any cause; kind of like a mobile billboard.

denak 6 years, 2 months ago

"....The Mayan calendar is curious as it lends to the date of 12-21-2012—it ends on that date, anything to take seriously? What do you think?...."

This is a myth. The ancient Mayan people did not view time as linear as we do today. To them, time was circular. Time is continual and neverending. When one era ends (roughly every 5,000 years) the next era resets to zero and starts all over. There is no armageddon. No catastrophe. Nothing. It just continues. This belief in continual time was common among native indeginous populations in pre-colonial Latin America and this belief is still seen in how the dead are viewed today. Unlike here in the U.S., where we view time as linear and that there is a beginning and an end resulting in death, the Indigenous did not believe that death meant the end because it was just part of the natural cycle of life. The Day of the Dead is a celebration of this. People go to the graves of their ancestors and have a picnic at the grave because their ancestors aren't gone. They are there with them in spirit because life and time goes on.

All these "predictions" about 12-21-2012 is just a bunch of "y2k" nonsense made to scare up book sells.

The only thing interesting that is going to happen on that day is that the sun will be aligned with the Milky Way for the first time in over 25,000 years.

Dena

Kryptenx 6 years, 2 months ago

Nota: Re-read it yourself, particularly the first half! I would think after 125+ comments that it would be easy to see the issue here, but I guess I should re-state it again. By waiving the $10,000 fee for novelty plates, the state is effectively making a law respecting an establishment of religion, therefore violating the separation of church and state.

As long as the state does not waive the $10,000 fee, there is no problem. Allowing expression of belief is fine, so long as certain beliefs do not gain special priveleges over others. The vast majority of us do not want to deny anyone the opportunity to express belief, we just want them to pay the $10,000 like any other group would be required to do.

Also, the state is NOT required to allow people to express religious belief on a state issued license plate. They can express their belief in any number of ways that don't involve state property, but even if the state was to deny the creation of this plate, the 1st Amendment would not be violated.

KansasVoter 6 years, 2 months ago

This is bullsh!t. I don't want my tax dollars paying for these ridiculous license plates. Don't be surprised when you start reading stories about the "In god We Trust" plates getting vandalized or stolen.

Mike Blur 6 years, 2 months ago

Dena, the sun aligns with the Milky Way once a year, and it happens every December as the Sun courses through Sagittarius.

You may possibly alluding to the alignment with Galactic Equator--and once again, the Sun aligns with the Galactic Equator once a year, at a date and time that precesses (ie. moves forward slowly and inexorably.) Every 26,000 years, the Sun precesses through the ecliptic and "winds up" at the same spot at it was 26K years before. On December 21, 1997, the Sun aligned at the Galactic Equator on the solstice. On the date of the winter solstice in 2012, the Sun will be nearly a half-degree "behind" the line of the Galactic Equator.

The Mayans were a mere 15 years off on calculating a precessional event that occurs every 26,000 years--not too bad for not having telescopes or computers!

Mike Blur 6 years, 2 months ago

And, I forgot to add, anything that's predicted to happen in 2012 already happened. In 1997.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

For god's sake. If you're going to be deliberately obtuse then I'm done with you, notajayhawk. Barely a single one of those references that you spammed on us have anything to do with denying people's rights to put the words on their plates. Hell, the fact that you included Tacobob in this anti-Christian grouping speaks to the level of thought you put into that. I understand that you enjoy being contrary, but you should pick your battles better or you just look like a fool.

jonas_opines 6 years, 2 months ago

Was that you laughing spitefully, 4125?

JerryStubbs 6 years, 2 months ago

Why not just put it on all the plates. Nickles have it. No extra $10,00 needed.

This would be an improper action to pay this for a special run of plates. If the government wants "IN GOD WE TRUST" on the plates, they should wait til it's time for the next revision and then put it on everybody's and it would essentially be free.

Commenting has been disabled for this item.