Archive for Monday, October 20, 2008
Group plans lawsuit against government to stop SLT
Opponents of the proposed route for the South Lawrence Trafficway through the Baker Wetlands announced plans to file a lawsuit blocking completion of the project.
October 20, 2008
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A group of Haskell Indian Nations University students and others are planning a Friday press conference to announce a lawsuit to stop the expansion of the South Lawrence Trafficway.
In a statement released Monday, Haskell Wetlands Preservation Organization, the Sierra Club, Save the Wakarusa Wetlands, the Audubon Society, KU Environs, the Prairie Band Potawatomi Nation and KU EcoJustice announced they would file suit against the Federal Highway Administration challenging the Record of Decision released earlier this year. In the press release, Haskell students said they were taking the lead on this litigation because the land where the new SLT is sacred to many Native Americans.
A press conference is scheduled for 5 p.m. Friday when more information will be released.
More like this
- Last lawsuit? 22 comments / October 22, 2008
- Opponents of the proposed route for the South Lawrence Trafficway through the Baker Wetlands announc October 20, 2008
- Lawsuit aims to tie up trafficway 76 comments / October 24, 2008
- SLT LAWSUIT TO BE FILED THIS WEEK March 11, 1997
- Community activists gather to protest South Lawrence Trafficway April 22, 2002
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20 October 2008
at 11:24 p.m.
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jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaThe SLT may not be built, but it provides so much entertainment value already. I'm glad that it was thought up.
21 October 2008
at 12:29 a.m.
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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…
anybody look for oil out there? besides, do we really want *swamp* next to lawrence?swamp breeding place for mosquitos!
21 October 2008
at 12:44 a.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
I hope the lawyer gets sanctioned for bringing a frivolous lawsuit.
21 October 2008
at 2:59 a.m.
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humblecommentator (Anonymous) says…
right on kansas 778. when is all this nonsense going to stop?
21 October 2008
at 5:05 a.m.
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yankeelady (Anonymous) says…
Here we go again–deja vu.
21 October 2008
at 6:33 a.m.
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Jaylee (Anonymous) says…
of course the land is “sacred” to native americans. all land is. are they implying that the land is a sacred, holy site though?that would be tight and would probably build their case a little more than the former.
21 October 2008
at 6:47 a.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
More money wasted on lawyers.The SLT will be built. This will only escalate the price to the taxpayers that voted for the road.And,in the meantime, we will continue to sit in traffic that creeps along the swamp because there is no alternative.I, for one, no longer support or attend any HINU activities or functions nor will I give a dime to Sierra Club, the Audubon Society, the Prairie Band Potawatomi Nation (casino) and KU EcoJustice . Screw 'em all like they have screwed the citizens of Lawrence.
21 October 2008
at 6:59 a.m.
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dancemomx2 (Anonymous) says…
you've got to be kidding. just finish the road.
21 October 2008
at 7:06 a.m.
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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…
No surprise here, so what you do is go to one of the day work centers and find about a dozen strong guys.Then you go to the hardware store and buy them shovlels, pick, rakes and other implements of destruction and wait for dark.While you and The Gang Of Twelve are waiting for dark you are also getting them all likkered up with the cheap booze that you promised them in addition to the pay.At about 1:30 AM (When the cops are all busy with the bar corwd!), you set them to digging at one of the dikes hoilding back the wetlands.Soon as the water starts to flow real good you move to another spot on the dike and repeat the process. Do this several times.The rapidly flowing water will quickly erode the openings into really large holes in the dike and the veritable floodgates will open, draining the whole swamp before anyone can do anyathing about it.You should be able to cut five or six holes before anyone knows what is going on and by that time, you've returned the crew to home and you're off to bed; a job well done!
21 October 2008
at 7:26 a.m.
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redfred (Anonymous) says…
Where was Haskell at the original planning meetings 20 plus yrs ago? They didn't show up and now they want to complain.
21 October 2008
at 7:29 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“Where was Haskell at the original planning meetings 20 plus yrs ago? They didn't show up and now they want to complain.”They weren't invited— but then again, no one else was invited to the secret meetings that originally planned it, either.
21 October 2008
at 7:48 a.m.
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Noweigh (Anonymous) says…
None of this matters….remember, the world aboslutely, forever, ended when they built the Wal-Mart at 6th and Wakarusa. Yea, right.
21 October 2008
at 8:32 a.m.
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c_dubya (Anonymous) says…
Are they waiting to file the suit until after the abatement project is finished?
21 October 2008
at 8:46 a.m.
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Raider (Anonymous) says…
So can the taxpayers counter sue Haskell for the difference in construction costs that this delay is going to cause? Why in the world are they even involved? baker owns the land. If Haskell wanted it so bad, then why did they give it up to Baker? These people are like the little kid in the corner who throws a fit just to get attn.
21 October 2008
at 8:56 a.m.
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tswizzle (Anonymous) says…
I agree with “blue73harley”, we need to get this thing built and get it over with. At this rate it will be 10-20 years before the SLT is completed.
21 October 2008
at 9:09 a.m.
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SMe (Anonymous) says…
All they, the powers that be (City, State, Federal Government and the developers) had to do was move the silly thing a little south to where it would do some good!But no the developers wouldn't give up their “anticipated” profit and the Goverment(s) did what they do so well - ignore their constituants and reason in favor of favors. Did you ever look at the south terminus and wonder why in the name of anybody did they build the bridge over Iowa but not finish the ramps that would've made the intersection much more effective? I forget the exact figure bandied about then and it wasn't that much - heck we've wasted more in gas money waiting for that stupid light(s) to change!
21 October 2008
at 9:22 a.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
SMe - woulda, coulda, shoulda. I think and SOR route WOULD have been great. But that is not on the table. The 32nd Street Route has been approved by all of the required official entities. Build it.BTW - I will still argue that the SOR would have been more beneficial for developers in the long run.
21 October 2008
at 9:31 a.m.
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doc1 (Anonymous) says…
What they don't reallize is there is a pro-SLT group swarming up a lawsuit of their own to sue them back. Peoples right to sue is getting a little out of hand.
21 October 2008
at 9:46 a.m.
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monkeyhawk (Anonymous) says…
Are these the same people who want us all to just get along? I think the likelihood of that diminishes more by the minute.
21 October 2008
at 9:46 a.m.
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skinny (Anonymous) says…
We're going to build the SLT whether you like it or not this time. Enough is enough.It is manmade wet lands for christ sake. Get over it!!
21 October 2008
at 9:47 a.m.
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Jean1183 (Anonymous) says…
Build it! We have wasted enough time & money.
21 October 2008
at 10:01 a.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: They weren't invited- but then again, no one else was invited to the secret meetings that originally planned it, either.*************************************Haskell signed off on the deal with the exception of extending Mass St. through their campus south to connect with the SLT. They asked that this part of the project be removed, and they were obliged by the planners. But I guess since the planning was done in “secret meetings” Haskell must have just guessed about the whole extending Mass St. part of the plan right? And they were completely left out of the process (with the exception of getting everything they asked for before it was approved) right?
21 October 2008
at 10:08 a.m.
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Raider (Anonymous) says…
Haskell signed off on the deal with the exception of extending Mass St. through their campus south to connect with the SLT. They asked that this part of the project be removed, and they were obliged by the planners. But I guess since the planning was done in “secret meetings” Haskell must have just guessed about the whole extending Mass St. part of the plan right? And they were completely left out of the process (with the exception of getting everything they asked for before it was approved) right?***********************************************************************This is typical. Give them a foot, they want a yard. Give them a yard, they want a mile. It's time for them to shut up and move on. Build this road.
21 October 2008
at 10:09 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
They were not at the original planning meeting, k778. The only ones at that unannounced meeting were a few local county and city commissioners, plus a few chambocrat types, all of whom were there to plan a highway. No members of the public were invited or even informed of the meeting, which almost certainly would have violated current open meetings laws, although I'm not certain that it was a violation of the then-existing laws.
21 October 2008
at 10:15 a.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
BTW, k778, would you care to be more specific about what you mean by “Haskell signing off on the SLT?” Was there a vote of the board of regents of Haskell? A vote of the students or faculty? Exactly who is that signed off on the deal?
21 October 2008
at 10:44 a.m.
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drb (David Benson) says…
Somebody always has to bring up the “it used to be farmland so it's not a real wetlands” as a reason for plowing a road through it. Before it was farmland it was wetlands and there was a heck of a lot more of it.
21 October 2008
at 10:55 a.m.
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kubacker (Anonymous) says…
Who gives a flying F what Haskell wants - Lawrence needs the road and will be built. While they're at it they ought to build a SLT feeder road, with a truck stop on it, right through the middle of Haskell!
21 October 2008
at 11:02 a.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
Well, David, why don't we just go a little farther back in time and flood the whole state…http://www.oceansofkansas.com/
21 October 2008
at 11:07 a.m.
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drb (David Benson) says…
Well, Anonymous, why stop there? Lot's hope the big bang soon reverses and leads to a big crunch, so we can start everything all over again.
21 October 2008
at 11:11 a.m.
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drb (David Benson) says…
Anonymous #2. If you look at my post, I said nothing about sacredness. Just made a point. Be careful what you insinuate from what people say. And why are all of you people afraid to use your names?
21 October 2008
at 11:11 a.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
bozo—they signed off on it by making no further recommendations. They got *everything* they asked for, and then said nothing else until *after* the vote. That's acquiscence—they did have a chance to say something, they asked for what they wanted, and they got it. No backsies.
21 October 2008
at 11:25 a.m.
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manus_flexibilis (Anonymous) says…
Either spend more tax dollars repairing the road due to unstable soil, if you put large culverts in to channel the water they would sink too.ORLive in backed up wastewater, people downstream would have drastic changes in water quality from removing this natural filter system.BUTWhat do we care of JOCO's rain gardens
21 October 2008
at 11:37 a.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
First of all, the wetlands are not man-made. They were restored to the wetlands that existed before they were drained and turned into farmland. Second, go ahead and make your racist comments. Your statements here will probably be quoted and used as evidence to prove that the choice of the 32nd Street Route is based on racism. All your racist comments will only help ensure that the law suit to stop the SLT on 32nd Street will be very successful. Congratulations. You people are doing everything you can to work against your own interests. If you really want the SLT to be completed, you should vote for Ken Grotewiel, who will make the SLT happen, but on the land where it was originally intended. In fact, if you and the other racist people hadn't been pushing to put a square peg in a round hole all these years, the SLT would have been completed 20 years ago South of the River where it was proposed to be in the first place. But you folks get such a kick out of making fun of the Native Americans, and even covering up their deaths as Jim Flory did, that you would rather not have the SLT at all than to accept the most rational location for it. You commuters, through your ignorance and racism, deserve what you have…no road. Keep using racism and keep supporting a county commission candidate who is seen as an enemy of the Native American community, and you will see this thing tied up in courts forever. If you support Ken Grotewiel and the South of the River location, the lawsuit will be dropped, and you will have your road. It is as simple as that.A vote for Flory is a vote against the completion of the SLT.http://cybold.com/cybold/hitchita/part2.html
21 October 2008
at 11:44 a.m.
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manus_flexibilis (Anonymous) says…
stereotypical (likkered,casino gamers, art festty's, sacred roundabouts, etc..), just waiting for a catchy political slogan unlike, I will not tax the SLT!
21 October 2008
at 11:49 a.m.
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Trobs (Anonymous) says…
Ah I love it. I don't like Obama - racisti want the SLT built - racistoh btw, my family is Cuban. RA..wait..what?Obviously, I am a racist because I oppose things based on what they bring about. Never mind the fact I couldn't care if you are purple, green, black, red, yellow, orange, polka dotted or striped. Get a new arguement GOP. My grandfather left Cuba opposed to the Socialism and dictatorship of Castro. My mother, father, wife and myself have served, or continue to serve in the US Armed Forces. We do this because we believe in the rights given to us. Including the right to slander others when they disagree with you. It's called Free Speech in case you forgot. “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”Sounds familiar. Ignore it, the SLT won't ever happen. Ha! They are actually trying to build it? Sue the racists! They hate natives!Lawrence is stuck in a rut. Higher taxes but bad roads. Free speech, but anger at disagreement. For a town that seems to value being progressive, we have a long way to go.
21 October 2008
at 12:08 p.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
David - there was no big bang. Here in Kansas we are backwards and believe in Creation…and that roads shouldn't be built on sacred lands.And I prefer to remain anon to poke fun at pompous a$$es.
21 October 2008
at 12:13 p.m.
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drb (David Benson) says…
Anon-Being anonymous while poking fun at anybody is just a way of being a coward. If you believe what you're saying here, be a man (or woman) and put your name to it.
21 October 2008
at 12:32 p.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
Trobs (Anonymous)….You misunderstood what I'm saying. I'm not the one judging the racism. The courts and the national media will be the ones doing that. I want the SLT built as much as anyone, but the fact that Jim Flory is the person pushing this and given his infamous history with the Native American Community, you can be sure that the SLT will NEVER be built if Flory is elected. My point is if you want the SLT, don't be making racist comments and don't be voting for Flory. Otherwise, you have no one to blame but yourselves.
21 October 2008
at 12:34 p.m.
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Lawrence_is_like_a_cancer (Anonymous) says…
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
21 October 2008
at 12:42 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“they signed off on it by making no further recommendations.”You didn't answer my question. Who are “they?”
21 October 2008
at 12:44 p.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
David -Speaking of making some ASSumptions, here is a few other reasons for remaning anon other than being a “coward” -A person using a company resource (on break, of course!)A business owner not wishing to identify political views.A person who does not want attention to themselves or their familiesA person who wishes not to be solicitedA person who just posts for entertainmentEtc.Plus, the LJW, has no requirement.
21 October 2008
at 12:49 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
GOPC—to the contrary, it is you that is hurting his cause. Crying about racism (6 times in one post!) only makes you look silly, and strengthens the resolve of those in favor. This is because your argument is so off base from reality that there is no argument—we see no reason not to go forward. The case won't be tied up in court forever, the last lawsuit was only won on a technicality of the law that required an “impact study.” They've got nothing left, and this road only needs financing to be built.
21 October 2008
at 12:52 p.m.
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SMe (Anonymous) says…
GOPConservative. I like this man. He speaks the truth.
21 October 2008
at 12:54 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: You didn't answer my question. Who are “they?”***************************The same people who asked for the Mass St. extension to be taken out. Regardless, what's your point? The board of directors of Haskell sat on the knowledge about the SLT and did nothing. You talk about “secret meetings” yet Haskell was sent the plans for the development prior to it going to a vote. How else to you think they were able to request the change in the plans that they got?
21 October 2008
at 12:59 p.m.
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kmat (Anonymous) says…
I get sick of people giving the same old story about how terrible the traffic is on 23rd St. I live on the other side of town and usually take HWY32 to and from work. But a while back after reading all the whining posts about how terrible the rush hour traffic is on 23rd St., I decided to start taking K-10 for a while and driving on 23rd to Iowa and sometimes up to Kasold.it has never taken me more than 5-7 minutes to get all the way to iowa and sometimes kasold. never. i've been doing this off and on for a couple of months now. If the lights were timed better, it would flow even smoother. But seriously, how much can you people whine over a 5-7 minute drive??? People in Lawrence have no idea what real traffic is. People need to get a life and stop whining about this idiotic road that should have been completed while I was still back in college, but no, can't build it south of the Waka because we want to make money by putting it in town. How stupid of an idea to build a bypass that barely bypasses the city! I see so much whining on these posts from people in Topeka. Hey Topukans, try I-70. Why the heck do you drive through Lawrence? No sob stories about how your job is in Lenexa. So is mine. You get off on K-7 and drive down to K-10. It's takes just a few minutes and you can completely avoid city traffic. But no, gotta whine because you don't want to pay the toll. Don't want a toll, put up with city traffic in Lawrence and stop whining or get a job in Topeka.
21 October 2008
at 1 p.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
kansas778 - I hope you are right, but I doubt it. I've been watching this for 30 years, and the people behind running the road right through the middle of the wetlands keep blowing it time after time. If it weren't for their blind greed, the road would have been built South of the River 20 years ago.I think it is wishful thinking on your part to believe that the national media won't pick up on the fact that Flory is back. They will have a field day with this. The negative publicity will kill the wetlands route again. Just wait and see how things turn out if Time Magazine or USA Today runs an article on the return of Jim Flory to Lawrence politics.
21 October 2008
at 1:24 p.m.
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kmat (Anonymous) says…
Hawk says “Talk about fun, better than string a bunch of triple D bras across the Kaw.Maybe we could promote Prostrate Cancer awareness and string some jock straps on the bridge to nowhere.What a waste of space, that bridge deck.”That comment really makes you look like a jerk. Ever lost anyone to breast cancer? My mother is a survivor and I lost my sister to it. My husband's boss is currently fighting it. Breast cancer is a serious issue and the bras across the Kaw is trying to bring awareness. Most cases of breast cancer are treatable, if caught in time. So what's so terrible about some bras being strung up to get people to think and hopefully get routine screenings that may save their life?You want to string some jocks up on the bridge? Go for it. If it brings better awareness to the fact that you can go have a simple blood test to see if you have prostate cancer, then it's a good thing,I am really shocked about negative comments about the bras. I have seen a lot of people, all ages, walking along the bridge checking out the display. You're the only person I've heard that has an issue with it. That river and bridge are so ugly that the bras actually make it look good. It's acceptable to have Victoria's Secret runway shows on prime time tv, but bras on the Kaw is bad. What ever!
21 October 2008
at 1:25 p.m.
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Thats_messed_up (Anonymous) says…
build build build!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Lawrence will never be considered a “green” city as long they refuse to build the SLT thereby strangling traffic for thousands and thousands of northeast Kansas commuters every day. The greenhouse emissions from 20,000 to 40,000 vehicles idling, starting and stopping, idling , starting and stopping 20 times over— twice a day just to get through Liberal Paradise Lawrence is many many times more than if those same vehicles cruised around Lawrence through open fields of mud and mosquitoes at 65mph without ever stopping once. Also the wear and tear of the large trucks on 23rd, haskell, 31st, iowa, etc. are the reason the roads all suck. Green city? What a joke!
21 October 2008
at 1:29 p.m.
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kmat (Anonymous) says…
Kansas778 - you easily summed up why it won't be completed. “this road only needs financing to be built.” Where's that money coming from? There is such an abundance of money in this failing economy. Think it's coming from the state? No, not enough money. Feds? No, still no extra money? Do you want to take this state and country deaper into debt to build this stupid road?How about this? All the whiners that insist they need the SLT to save them from the terrible traffic, start raising the money yourselves. If everyone wants this road so bad, I'm sure you'll have no problems to raise the money. Ha ha ha ha ha.
21 October 2008
at 1:39 p.m.
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dweezil222 (Anonymous) says…
I am, and have always been against the SLT, but I'm getting sick and freaking tired of hearing about it. The fight is over, stop the stall tactics and just build the damn thing.
21 October 2008
at 1:43 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
kmat (Anonymous) says: it has never taken me more than 5-7 minutes to get all the way to iowa and sometimes kasold. never. **************************************Assuming you are talking about coming from K-10 and heading West through town, it is a distance of 3.5 miles from Harper where the first stoplight is to Kasold. So you had to be going 42 miles an hour—with no slowing down or stopping—all the way from Harper to Kasold to make it in 5 minutes. This is pretty much impossible, even at 4 in the morning, because you would have to stop at least one or two lights, and they usually take about 30 seconds to a minute to cycle through. I call BS. When I had to drive 23rd street East out of town at rush hour, I got on it at Louisiana and it would take at least 10 minutes to get out of town from there, a distance of 1.5 miles going about 9 miles an hour. The worst light was always at Haskell Ave., usually it is backed up almost to the light at Baker Ave.
21 October 2008
at 1:44 p.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
kmat - for those living in the SW (not just Topekans) it would be completely idiotic to use I70 (toll or no toll) especially when driving to Olathe/OP.
21 October 2008
at 1:44 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
kmat, I suggest we sue you and all the other people that put this project years behind for frivoulous reasons that cost us millions.
21 October 2008
at 1:51 p.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
kmat, you are exactly right. Even if there were funds available, they are needed for replacing crumbling infrastructure, not for a road so commuters, who should never have moved here in the first place, can save five minutes on their daily commute to where they should never have moved from in the first place.
21 October 2008
at 2:03 p.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
GOP - my job moved. I didn't. Stop the stupid assumptions about “evil” commuters.
21 October 2008
at 2:14 p.m.
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manus_flexibilis (Anonymous) says…
Covering tracks! These Jim Flory scare tactics sound familiar, unlike the lead puppet coming under fire? Let's put our tail between our legs and retire…….
21 October 2008
at 2:18 p.m.
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justfornow (Anonymous) says…
How about this k-mat, All the whiners that insist they need the T, start raising the money yourselves. If everyone wants this service so bad, I'm sure you'll have no problems to raise the money. Ha ha ha ha ha.
21 October 2008
at 2:19 p.m.
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justfornow (Anonymous) says…
You sound pretty stupid, don't ya think.
21 October 2008
at 2:25 p.m.
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Donnuts (Anonymous) says…
Sorry, I guess I am too busy cleaning up the apartment my ex-girl friend made a mess in my life.I have to mend what she did. Maybe you could send Joe the Plumber. Seems she put something under the sink that stinks a bit. He would need to reset the trap. Is that from the Sunflower House or 911 Ohio? Anyway, if you could send Joe the Plumber with his pipe; I could make it to the demonstration.
21 October 2008
at 2:30 p.m.
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tonythetiger (Anonymous) says…
Say, if you could tell Patty at Independence Inc. and the Everybody has to get everywhere Inc. I could get there myself. I can't wait for handicapped kayaks to be invented… oh… I guess that is completely in appropriate. Well say Hi to Ms. Beasley for me and all the others. Sure appreciate it. Oh and if Babcock works for the Fire Dept still we can meet up at LAC and have a good laugh about it all with Rachel and Lance. Do they know Sarah, Zoe and Ben? Smells fishy to me.I think the people that put on demonstrations like that are too dangerous. Maybe you could get some star endorsements like Eddie Vedder or Johnny Depp to go and help out with Star Power and Bandwagon tactics and money. People could make donations to see Johnny Depp at the Baker Wetlands or Eddie Vedder.
21 October 2008
at 2:33 p.m.
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autie (Anonymous) says…
does this mean more otter pictures?
21 October 2008
at 2:47 p.m.
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kmat (Anonymous) says…
Nope, you sound pretty damn stupid, justfornow.Kansas778 - you need to read more closely. I said 5-7 minutes. It usually takes me about 5 minutes (i was timing it) to get to Iowa and a whopping couple more minutes to get to Kasold. Most times, I've barely sat at any lights. I've been doing this for a couple of months to see if the traffic is really as bad as you whiners say it is. I have not had a single evening where the traffic has been that bad. Like I said before, you people don't know what traffic is. Go sit in L.A., St. Loius, Chicago, etc…. to see real traffic. Traffic is a little worse heading east bound, but still not worth all the whining you people do. And you're complaining about getting on 23rd street at Louisiana. The SLT would help you alot, wouldn't it???Hey blue - did I say someone in SW Larry should take I-70? NO! That's messed up - try turning your car off at stop lights. As long as you aren't driving an ancient junk pile and your car is fuel injected, you save gas and emit less if you turn your car off.You are all a bunch of whiners. You've been very spoiled living in this little crappy town. You want no traffic, move to the country.
21 October 2008
at 2:51 p.m.
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pinecreek (Anonymous) says…
Well for those of you that think that the SLT will solve the issue of 23rd Street traffic, explain to me exactly how the SLT fixes 30,000 students, with 15-20,000 cars in the middle of our fair city, moving about each day from that tiny little campus grid to and from their classes, homes and stores. I have yet to see one traffic study from the City, County or State that addresses that issue. I've also asked about it, no one really wants to discuss it. Unless you resolve their traffic (which no SLT ever will), you're wasting a lot of taxpayers' money for a false hope.
21 October 2008
at 3:05 p.m.
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merrill (Anonymous) says…
Developers and cars are two very expensive budget items. Both want roads.What do new roads bring with them? Development:..seldom long time relief from traffic congestion. New development brings new and more traffic congestion.Consider if residential growth paid for itself and was financially positive, we would not be in a budget crunch. But with increased numbers of houses you have increased demand on services, and historically the funding of revenues generated by residential does not pay for the services, they require from a municipality.More streets = more cars = more people = more tax increases.Developers consistently increase our tax liabilities: How you ask?*Over built retail*Over built residential*Demanding New Industrial Sites while many 12-14 acre sites are now available*Demand New sewage treatment plant which is on the backs of taxpayers*More flood and drainage control which falls on the back of taxpayers*Demand New Housing Projects - If residential growth paid for itself we might not be in a budget crunch. Increased numbers of residential create increased demand on services. Historically revenues generated by residential housing do not pay for the services they require from a municipality thus increased taxes to cover the cost of maintaining:* New water and sewer lines are on the backs of taxpayers for maintenance*New streets are on the backs of taxpayers for maintenance*New public schools are on the backs of taxpayers*More fire & emergency med stations are on the backs of taxpayers*more law enforcement manpower is on the backs of taxpayers* more snow removal is on the backs of taxpayers* More cross walks are on the backs of taxpayers*More Traffic Controls are on the backs of taxpayers*More Parks are on the backs of taxpayers*New Million dollar intersections fall on the backs of taxpayers*Additional city staff to meet demands falls on the backs of taxpayersAll of the above is what follows a new bypass which is why developers have been the big pushers behind this project.If developers were truly concerned about traffic problems Lawrence would not have become a bedroom community that which cannotafford itself. Bedroom communities simply cannot generate enough revenue to support themselves thus increased taxes and user fees.
21 October 2008
at 3:08 p.m.
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merrill (Anonymous) says…
Developers and cars are two very expensive budget items. Both want roads. New development is the ultimate desire not concern for traffic congestion.”Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (And Stick You with the Bill)”http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/18/free_lunch_how_the_wealthiest_americansIt is time legislate impact fees,excise taxes and benefit districts to cover the entire cost of all new development including maintenance and new schools.If taxpayers could come together and agree to screw the wetlands route and support a true bypass or I-70 connectors, projects that have little to no opposition, KDOT might see fit to approve such a concept thus getting this project off the table once and for all… pure speculation although logical.
21 October 2008
at 3:10 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
So, in reality, you have no idea whether Haskell signed off on this alignment of the SLT, do you, k778? But making the claim supports your special interest, so why not throw it against the wall and see if it sticks?
21 October 2008
at 3:18 p.m.
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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…
More repetitious copy and paste = more merrill
21 October 2008
at 3:26 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
bozo—they did sign off on it, just as much as not voting signs off on whoever wins the election. They had their chance to say something, and they didn't. If the land was soooo sacred in 1993, why was it worthless in 1988?
21 October 2008
at 3:34 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
Is it sticking yet, k778?
21 October 2008
at 3:44 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
kmat, that's simply not possible without speeding. If you only hit two *short* lights you would still have to go almost 40 miles an hour all the way from Harper to Iowa. Going 45+ from Iowa to Kasold is possible, but going 40 miles an hour down 23rd during rush hour, come on, who do you think you're fooling with that kind of BS? There are nine stoplights from Harper to Iowa, are you saying that you regularly miss all nine? You would have to go the speed limit and only hit ONE light the whole way to make that kind of time…***without any traffic***!3 lights and no traffic—43 mph4 lights and no traffic—50 mph5 lights and no traffic—60 mph6 lights and no traffic—75 mphThat doesn't even account for having to speed up and slow down, so your top speed would have to be even higher to still make time. I love your argument about just learning to live with it. I wonder if that works with other areas as well? Let's see, crime might be bad, but hey, it's worse in Detroit, so we should do nothing about it, right? Your water's not clean? Well, it's worse in Bejing, so there's no reason to act. The schools are doing poorly you say? The schools in D.C. are much worse, so you should feel lucky! In fact, until the problem is so terribly awful that Lawrence is the worst city in the world, we should just stand by and do nothing, right?
21 October 2008
at 3:45 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: Is it sticking yet, k778?**********************I guess about as well as your claims that this is all about racism.
21 October 2008
at 3:54 p.m.
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not_holroyd (Anonymous) says…
Not Holroyd has to finally tip his hat to Hawkperched on this one. The jocks-on-the-bridge-to-nowhere is a great idea.The SLT issue is seen statewide as the definition of stupid Lawrence politics.After all, how many other communities have elected officials who have dressed up like a frog to go to the Capitol to lobby against a road?
21 October 2008
at 3:56 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“I guess about as well as your claims that this is all about racism.”It isn't all about racism. It's mostly about narrow self-interest— the desire for a little more convenience, no matter at whose expense it comes. The fact that this comes primarily at the expense of Haskell, which only came into existence as partial compensation to Native Americans for centuries of genocide and the theft of their lands, puts more than a tinge of racism in this particular tantrum by rich white people irritated because they haven't got their way.
21 October 2008
at 3:59 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
Here's another one for you, k778— don't have enough money to maintain the roads we have now? Heck, let's just build some more of them.
21 October 2008
at 4:09 p.m.
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kmat (Anonymous) says…
778 - you are ridiculous! Thursday, it took me exactly 5 minutes and I was stopped at only one light (Naismith). Do all the math you want. I trust that nifty invention on my dash called a clock. I got to Harper at 5:50 and hit Iowa at 5:55. See, if you go a little over the limit, stay in the left lane and pay attn, you can get down 23rd st (westbound) fairly quickly.there is a huge difference between crime, poor schools, dirty water and traffic. I never said live with it. I said, quit whining, which is all some of you seem to be capable of. People that live in Lawrence that haven't lived in a large city and experienced what real traffic is like have no clue how simple the traffic in town is. And building a bypass that will only get a trivial amount of cars off 23rd street won't help your little traffic problem.So go back to whining about how terrible it is for you to have to deal with what you call heavy traffic on a few miles of a road in little Larryville. Like others have said, if you whiners would have supported a route south of the Waka, you'd have your precious bypass by now.
21 October 2008
at 4:10 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says: The fact that this comes primarily at the expense of Haskell,**************************How? How is a the SLT any more harmful than 31st street? That's the most laughable part of all, that somehow cars traveling by at slightly higher speeds will harm Haskell. And don't say that it's two roads and so it's double the problem. It wouldn't be that way if Haskell let them build it along 31st street as originally planned. There's already a road there, and it's already heavily used—just have a look around 5:30 to see the enormous line of cars trying to avoid the traffic on 23rd street. There is no harm to Haskell.
21 October 2008
at 4:30 p.m.
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not_holroyd (Anonymous) says…
“puts more than a tinge of racism in this particular tantrum by rich white people”..Spoken just like some white-guy who currently lives in a residence on land stolen from the Native Americans. Why not do something to reflect your views Bozo: Give Haskell the deed to your house….just retain a 'life interest' in it allowing you to live there until you die.
21 October 2008
at 4:52 p.m.
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pinecreek (Anonymous) says…
Come on guys, you're not answering my question. How is a $100 million+ road going to solve a huge traffic problem that originates on the HIll? Stop arguing the merits/demerits of 31st/32nd/SOR, tell me how ANY of them fix a centralized traffic source issue—KU students/employees and their cars. Still waiting….
21 October 2008
at 4:53 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
kmat, building the SLT south of the river would cost more and be less effective in relieving congestion. So we would be spending more for less. No thanks. You didn't say live with it, but that was your implication. You said traffic isn't too bad and that we shouldn't complain. If we don't want to have problems like other cities do then we need to think of what we can do about it before it gets that bad. As for your mythical trek across the Kessel Run in 12 parsecs, err, down 23rd in 5 minutes, I don't believe you; it's just not possible, even without traffic.
21 October 2008
at 5 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
pinecreek—because it was a stupid question. There isn't a traffic problem surrounding KU because there are so many ways into and out of campus. The problem with 23rd st. is because it's a bottleneck heading to K-10, and the SLT is designed to relieve pressure on that street. 23rd st. is still congested during the summer when the students are away, so that isn't the problem.
21 October 2008
at 5:07 p.m.
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merrill (Anonymous) says…
1. This concept was obsolete on day one because it failed to consider the long term needs of the community2. A real bypass takes traffic out around the city rather than through town.3.There has been little discussion as to exactly how much is expected from local taxpayers to fund any type of bypass. I am shocked at the support for a project considering no one knows how much Lawrence and Douglas County residents will be asked to fork over.4. All concepts were not made available to taxpayers because supporters aka developers did not like the routes.5. There was a design that completely avoided the wetlands that connected to K-10 interchange 1057 yet was not presented. That tells me other plans also were notpresented.6. As was suggested if the SOR plan had been left in place this obsolete idea fiasco would not be a topic of discussion. Once again I say screw the wetlands route and get back to SOR or I-70 connectors off K-10.
21 October 2008
at 5:07 p.m.
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pinecreek (Anonymous) says…
778—in case you didn't notice, summer school enrollment is very high these days, the students don't go away like they used to. And there is a traffic problem around KU, it spills onto all surrounding streets and eventually onto 23rd because it's the primary east-west arterial. Building a road 2, 3 or 4 miles south of the problem is not going to encourage them to use it to avoid traffic. As for your term 'stupid', well, I won't dignify your insult with another. Try again.
21 October 2008
at 5:54 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
pinecreek (Anonymous) says: And there is a traffic problem around KU, it spills onto all surrounding streets and eventually onto 23rd because it's the primary east-west arterial. Building a road 2, 3 or 4 miles south of the problem is not going to encourage them to use it to avoid traffic. *************************************The SLT will be built 1 mile south of 23rd. Go to 31st and Louisiana during rush hour and see all the cars trying to avoid 23rd st. But no, it's not the 80,000 residents of Lawrence trying to get into and out of the city to the East that stuck in traffic, it's the 30,000 KU students? You thought outside the box, so nice effort, but you're completely off base here. Regardless of whether KU students are here, Lawrence is a growing city with a growing traffic problem. The city is growing West, and those residents need a route to get to the other side of town.
21 October 2008
at 6:22 p.m.
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Satirical (Anonymous) says…
Another attempt for anti-development and anti-growth groups to throwing anything they have to see what sticks in an effort to stall the inevitable and sorely needed by the majority of residents. This groups mantra is that democracy reigns supreme, unless it is against them, then tie things up in the courts and hope they can find a crazy judge who agrees.
21 October 2008
at 6:31 p.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
kansas778…You are blaming the wrong people for the delay and increased costs. The SLT could have been completed 20 years ago. It was those who changed the route who slowed up the process. Incidently, there is no advantage to either alignment for freeing up congestion on 23rd. Traffic studies show that both alignments work the same. manus_flexibilis….Don't blame the messenger. For the sake of the community, I don't want to see our problems being thrashed out again in the national media. You can call it a “scare tactic”, but if the leader of the fight against HINU is Jim Flory, there will be hell to pay. It will be worse than 1991. My appeal is to those who really want the SLT to be completed. Voting for Flory is counterproductive your goal. What is needed is a peaceful resolution of conflict, not a war. We need to elect a leader without anti-Native American baggage. Our community needs to make the national news because of our accomplishments, not our failures.
21 October 2008
at 7:49 p.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
GOPConservative (Anonymous) says: Traffic studies show that both alignments work the same.****************************************Incorrect.http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/oct/12/slt_wetlands_urged_traffic_reasons/#c441147
21 October 2008
at 9 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“How is a the SLT any more harmful than 31st street?”Eight lanes (and maybe ten) vs. two lanes? Are you math challenged?
21 October 2008
at 9:07 p.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
kansas778 - As the Grant Eichhorn said, “It seems pretty marginal,” and it is. The difference Tobaben claims is not statistically significant. Common sense should tell you there is very little difference. The purpose of the bypass is to let traffic get around Lawrence. If a vehicle is trying to get from the Lecompton interchange to K-10, they most likely now travel either 23rd Street or 31st Street. If they want the fastest way across town they would use the SLT regardless of the alignment.
21 October 2008
at 10:37 p.m.
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manus_flexibilis (Anonymous) says…
Why bring up the past or an individuals skeleton whether or not if the person is for or against the proposed highway plan. Mr. Flory needs to take the 42nd option into consideration if there is a compromise. Threats need not apply!
21 October 2008
at 11:05 p.m.
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jonas_opines (Anonymous) says…
“Common sense should tell you there is very little difference.”Common sense doesn't come up too much in regards to the SLT, but math tells that there is very little difference, just 7% of total traffic, between the two plans, assuming that the consultants guesses were entirely correct.
22 October 2008
at 1:07 a.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says:Eight lanes (and maybe ten) vs. two lanes? Are you math challenged?****************************You didn't answer the question. If your only complaint is that it will be a bigger road, that's pretty weak. It's still just a road where one already exists.
22 October 2008
at 1:13 a.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
GOPConservative (Anonymous) says: Common sense should tell you there is very little difference. The purpose of the bypass is to let traffic get around Lawrence. If a vehicle is trying to get from the Lecompton interchange to K-10, they most likely now travel either 23rd Street or 31st Street. If they want the fastest way across town they would use the SLT regardless of the alignment.************************************That's ridiculous. Why would they even build intersections along the route if people were only going to get on and off at the terminuses. Common sense? Please try some.
22 October 2008
at 10:03 a.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
Kansas778 says:”That's ridiculous. Why would they even build intersections along the route if people were only going to get on and off at the terminuses. Common sense? Please try some.”************************Why would anyone drive all the way out from 23rd Street to a terminus just to go a couple of miles and then come back? That makes no sense whatsoever. Further, even the tiny amount of difference that Tobaben “says” he found sounds like it was pulled out of where the sun doesn't shine. Tobaden is a loyal KDOT staffer. Asking KDOT for data on an alignment they've been pushing for 20 years is like asking the fox to guard the hen house.
22 October 2008
at 10:14 a.m.
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kansas778 (Anonymous) says…
Huh? What are saying, that people would drive from 23rd to the terminus and then go back? Why do you think people drive in circles? That makes no sense. People *will* take the SLT and get off at Louisiana or Iowa street to do shopping there, but if you make the SLT so far south that getting off at Louisiana means a 3 mile drive to get back to 23rd then people wouldn't use it, they'll just drive down 23rd the whole way to their destination.
22 October 2008
at 1:36 p.m.
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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…
“You didn't answer the question. If your only complaint is that it will be a bigger road, that's pretty weak. It's still just a road where one already exists.”Of course I answered the question. But while there are other complaints, to say that a complaint about building a road that is 4 to 5 larger than the existing one is “weak” indicates a very weak grasp of reality on your part.
22 October 2008
at 6:31 p.m.
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GOPConservative (Anonymous) says…
Kansas778 said “That makes no sense. People *will* take the SLT and get off at Louisiana or Iowa street to do shopping there, but if you make the SLT so far south that getting off at Louisiana means a 3 mile drive to get back to 23rd then people wouldn't use it, they'll just drive down 23rd the whole way to their destination.”*************The only existing shopping area that anyone would want to access from the SLT is the South Iowa retail stores. The terminus there would be the same with either alignment; i.e., the bridge to nowhere.
23 October 2008
at 9:38 p.m.
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SW2 (Anonymous) says…
Kansas778 asks “How is a the SLT any more harmful than 31st street?” That he/she does not know is not a “laughable” matter. It sadly demonstrates utter ignorance of what KDOT has planned. Read the final report. It isn't just that the new 31st Street would be twice as big, or that there would be a million dollar mile long 12' high concrete barrier between that new highway and the SLT itself. The plan shows the trafficway as four lanes. A 46' median between the east and west lanes is there so the SLT can be expanded to six lanes once Highway 10 from Johnson County is expanded to six lanes, and the SLT grows, linking the six lanes of turnpike already completed from Lawrence to Topeka. All this new pavement through the wetlands would fill with trucks from the new NAFTA shipping centers in Gardner and South Kansas City, and from the conglomerate of regional distribution centers that is becoming the heart of Ottawa's economic growth plan. Not local delivery trucks, as we now see on 32rd and Iowa, but massive truck convoys. This plan is not about rush hour traffic jams of cars, which few cities have ever managed to avoid by building more trafficways. It is first and foremost about trucks, trucks, and more TRUCKS in endless convoys crossing the wetlands, especially at night. It doesn' take a 6th grade education to figure out that the 32nd Street plan would have a substantially greater impact on the wetlands than the existing road, even if traffic backs up for 30 to 45 minutes during rush “hour”. It may take a 10th grade education, or at least some semblance of maturity and a little empathy, to grasp the effect on the Haskell students and alumni who see this place as the heart and soul of their story of survival against federally sponsored and locally supported cultural genocide.
24 October 2008
at 8:07 a.m.
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justaverage (Anonymous) says…
This whole deal is so outrageous! It is just a road that is being built, not a toxic waste dump! Besides, the wetlands is NOT a natural ecosystem. This project could have been done 20 years ago for less than a tenth of the cost to complete it now, not to mention the waste of time and money spent on litigation.
24 October 2008
at 10:13 p.m.
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weareallmigratory (Anonymous) says…
the funny thing is kansas was ALL deemed Indian Land before it was YOUR town, so in a sense its American Indian land right? anyways, for the people who don't agree with Haskell, would you be willing to do an on camera interview? Put it out there so we can see who you are? Let me know, I am looking for those to voice their opinions for the SLT…
28 October 2008
at 1:37 p.m.
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ridinthefence (Anonymous) says…
justaverage says it right. Why, why are we stilllll talking about it? Traffic in this city is a frikkin nightmare!! We needed it 20 years ago so good grief…. just build it! As far as Indian land goes, get over it, it's 2008. Who is still here that has anything to claim????? good heavens…
28 October 2008
at 1:59 p.m.
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manus_flexibilis (Anonymous) says…
keep on keepin on the fence!