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Mixing drinks and guns near bars in Lawrence could automatically land you in jail
If city leaders approve the mayor's new idea, getting caught with a gun, but without a permit, within 200 feet of a bar would carry a minimum $500 fine and a month in jail. Enlarge video
When it comes to bringing guns near downtown bars, there should be no more slaps on the wrist, Mayor Mike Amyx says.
Instead, just the slamming of a jail cell door.
"I think the penalty needs to be pretty stiff," Amyx said.
Currently, the city has an ordinance that makes it illegal to possess a firearm within 200 feet of a drinking establishment unless the person has a state-issued concealed carry permit. But the city law doesn't include a mandatory jail sentence. Instead, it gives the municipal court judge the latitude of sentencing a person from zero to 365 days in jail.
At Tuesday night's City Commission meeting, Amyx unexpectedly brought up the idea of stiffening the penalties. Amyx said he wanted commissioners to consider rewriting the ordinance to impose mandatory jail sentences of at least 30 days for a first-time offender, 90 days for a second-time offender, and at least 180 days for people convicted two or more times. In addition, there would be a mandatory fine ranging from $500 to $2,500.
Amyx's suggestion didn't spark any conversation at Tuesday night's meeting because it was not part of the commission's agenda. But on Thursday it was drawing some favorable opinions from members of the bar industry.
"I think it shows that the city wants to get out ahead of any future problems," said Phil Bradley, executive director of the Lawrence-based Kansas Licensed Beverage Association, which represents several bars in the city. "I think this is an excellent step, and the city should consider it vigorously."
Opinions are more mixed among city commissioners. Commissioner Boog Highberger said he wanted to review information on how the current law is being prosecuted, but said that he was open to mandatory jail time.
"I'm not someone who thinks all criminal penalties need to be harsher, but I think this is one instance where we need to send a very clear message," Highberger said.
Commissioner David Schauner said he might be able to support the mandatory jail time, but said the change wouldn't be his first choice. Instead, he said he wants the city to create a new entertainment licensing system that city staff members have previously presented to commissioners. It would require businesses that have gathering places of a certain size, such as 200 people or more, to have a special city license. If the businesses created nuisances or other problems, the city could fine the business or revoke its license.
"I think the license would put a responsibility on the owners of doing a better job of policing the crowd and bringing acts to town that may or may not create a problem," Schauner said.
The city ordinance prohibiting weapons near bars applies to the entire city, but it was crafted in response to several gun-related incidents near downtown bars. Those include a February 2006 shooting that left one man dead outside the Granada, 1020 Mass., after a concert at the nightclub. In May, seven shots were fired inside Last Call, 729 N.H., sending 200 people fleeing to the street. Lawrence police officers also have reported seizing about 20 weapons - including assault-style firearms - during the past several months.
Court changes
Regardless of whether city commissioners change the ordinance, City Prosecutor Jerry Little said some changes in how gun violations are prosecuted in Municipal Court already have been made.
Little said that earlier this year, he and his staff decided that they would no longer offer plea deals on gun charges that come through the court.
"We're taking a much harder approach on getting those prosecuted so that the community is much safer," Little said.
Little also said that Municipal Court Judge Randy McGrath has indicated that he will require all people charged with a gun violation to go through a pre-sentencing investigation to determine whether the individual has a prior criminal record. People found to have a criminal record could be subject to more jail time.
Little said that he thought the possibility of jail time ultimately could serve as a deterrent, although perhaps not immediately.
"A lot of the people we're talking about don't live here," Little said. "They probably don't know our laws, and I don't think they're reading the newspaper. They'll probably learn about it the hard way. Hopefully, though, word would start to get out about how we're handling things here."
City Manager David Corliss said he expects to put the issue on the City Commission's agenda in mid-March.
Corliss: ABC help unlikely with nuisance bars
The city likely won't be able to turn to state regulators for help in shutting down bars that are causing nuisance or violence problems in the community, City Manager David Corliss said Thursday.
Corliss said after discussing the issue with the state's Alcohol Beverage Control division, he's convinced the city likely would not be successful in convincing the ABC to revoke a license of a problem bar unless the bar was specifically violating liquor-related laws.
"They're not going to be helpful to us in regard to nuisance problems that occur outside the drinking establishment," Corliss said.
City commissioners in January had asked Corliss to investigate whether the ABC would be helpful in dealing with bars that have generated complaints of weapons-related crimes.
Commissioners have not specifically targeted a particular bar that they would like to have shut down, but there has been community concern expressed about weapons violations found near Last Call, 729 N.H.
Many of the weapons violations, however, have not happened inside the club but have occurred in parking lots owned by the city or other adjacent businesses.On Thursday, Corliss also did not target any particular establishment, but said the city was still looking at options for dealing with problem bars.
"We're looking at whether to pursue some other legal options that I don't want to talk about right now," Corliss said.
Corliss also said the city still was investigating a city licensing system that would regulate businesses that provide entertainment services such as dancing and live music.
Attempts to reach Tom Groneman, director of the ABC, for comment were not successful. Attempts to reach Dennis Steffes, owner of Last Call, also were not successful.
Comments
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davisnin (anonymous) says…
Finally an end to all the shootings at Teller's.
OldEnuf2BYurDad (anonymous) says…
When I first read this, my thought was "yes, jail time for the bar OWNERS would probably curb the matter". I think that's what it will take. Do we really think that the thugs from Topeka and KC are going to be aware OR respectful of the law. When the bar owners have to take responsibility, then the bars will "suddenly" become safe.
SportTea (anonymous) says…
Don't change a thing with the laws!!! I am having too much fun, lying in bed at night. hoping for that stacatto burst of gunfire from two blocks over that signals the Thug bar is going full tilt! Wondering when I'll have that exciting rush of fear when the window shatters from stray rounds! No surround sound system gives you the satisfaction of actually listening to screaming partons fleeing in terror. I love the prosecuter...slap thier wrists and let them go. It is a sure guarentee I will have many more returns of the delicious night sweats. Mmmmmmm
Ragingbear (anonymous) says…
Anyone else realize that this means that you may not have a gun in 90% of town? There are bars on every street corner. And I bet ya that every restaurant, or even store that sells alchohol is considered a bar by the terms of this bill. Nice little trick to circumvent the law when it comes to lawful concealed guns.
KS (anonymous) says…
Boog and Schauner won't have to worry about this much longer. I did my advance voting this week and darn, I just didn't see their names on the ballot. Oh well, someone else got my vote.
Boog is soft on crime and Schauner wants to put the cart before the horse and make someone else police the problem, other than the police. Nice try but that is backward. Give the bar owners the money you are paying the police and they might just take on that responsibility. It's always someone else's fault. Do the job you are being paid to do as a City Commissioner.
This is what happens when you give the courts the option on sentencing. Soft judges won't do anything. You need ole Judge Roy Bean down there and let him throw the book at these jerks for carrying an unlicensed concealed weapon. I can just hear the gun control people now. "if you take the guns away, they won't have them!" That sounds like a Boog plan. If they spend a little time in the cross bar hotel the taxpayers built for this purpose, they just "might" think twice about coming into this town! :) If you implement Schauner's plan, the bar owners can get their customers to "check their guns at the door". Lawrence is beginning to sound like the wild west. Deja vu all over again. Some things never change.
By golly, I think Mike Amyx is on to something. About time!
Plumberscrack - I ask the same question. Mass St. Deli is closing? Had not heard.
KS (anonymous) says…
Ragingbear - Read the article again. It excludes the conceal carry permit weapons, except inside the bar.
LogicMan (anonymous) says…
Hmm ... so if I'm driving through town on a hunting trip and pass within 200 ft of a bar, I'm guilty of a crime?
day (anonymous) says…
LogicMan,
No you are not guilty of a crime because your shotgun, in plain sight, is not a concealed weapon.
rednekbuddha (Kelly Powell) says…
There is a proviso that states that if you are traveling through or even have to stop for a brief period, it is not illegal to have the a gun in the car.....Basically they did put in a common sense clause.
consumer1 (anonymous) says…
Schauner and Highbooger are just pretending to have balls. It is election time. However I voted early and I didn't see their names either... What a shame.
aeroscout17 (anonymous) says…
Once again, I want somebody to explain to me how this is legal. The state passed a law approx. two years ago that said local communities and jurisdicitions cannot pass laws that are more restrictive than state laws.
Any legal experts want to take a stab at this one? I don't remember what the KSA is; anyone have the citation handy?
Rationalanimal (anonymous) says…
There is no dispute that some downtown bars are out of control. But, this solution has litigation written all over it. This is different than the smoking ordiance since "200 ft" is facially vague. Where do you start counting 200 ft from? What constitutes a bar? What will give notice to people? How about logicman's point which is a good one. Almost every major road coming in and out of Lawrence has a bar on it. Virtually every hunter in Lawrence coming and going would be breaking the law. Mayor Amyx has the right idea to solve the problem, but this solution won't solve the problem. People who carry loaded guns to bars without a state permit are already breaking the law. A new ordinance isn't going to change that. It is the vomit that attracts the dog, not the dog attracting the vomit. The best solution is pursuing the business nuisance ordinance. Put the regulatory teeth on the problem--out of control bars--not on ordinary, law-abiding citizens.
yankeelady (anonymous) says…
What happened to Mass Street Deli?? There isn't going to be much left of old Lawrence at this rate. I hope it isn't true.
roger_o_thornhill (anonymous) says…
Are there penalties for carrying a gun while drunk? Even with C&C license? Seems like it should be if'n it ain't. I don't know why folks are getting riled up. Isn't this one of those laws like the drug "tax stamp" that just means that an additional charge can be added to others?
As far as Mass St. Deli, I just have to say that it had to happen sooner or later. I started to avoid that particular establishment about 11 years ago. I'd been hearing rumors for at least 6 years that there was a laundry list of issues of dubious legality. If it is the end, I hope some other enterprising individual can open another eatery there--and not take what isn't their's from their staff. Maybe creole food. Place has a "French Quarter" feel to it already. If it isn't closing I fear I've said too much.
Back to the guns: How did the 2nd amendment ever get by the silky wig powderers at the Convention? I thought some of them were a bit afraid of the fact that so much of the 'rabble' were armed.
Todd (anonymous) says…
These firearm city ordinances are nuts. If they are ever challanged in court they will be shot down. Here's a hint for anyone with a clean record busted for having a gun in their car or house: get a decent lawyer and you'll walk. (assuming you weren't using the gun to commit a crime)
imastinker (anonymous) says…
The bar owner can handle the problem. They did at one of the night clubs a while ago. Remember the dress code prohibiting corn rows and FUBU clothes? It seemed to do the trick.
It's not the buns - it's the people. If you do get them to stop bringing guns - they'll bring knives.
Harry_Manback (anonymous) says…
Mass st. deli is closing this weekend? I always thought its food was okay, but the service was crappy. That kinda sucks though.
consumer1 (anonymous) says…
I was there for lunch. the food was crappy, the service was crappy, but the girls I talked to said they didn't know anything about it closing???? One girl there a tall slender very nice looking young woman gave me good service, but the one who waited on me seemed disinterested in everything.
morgoth14 (anonymous) says…
At first I thought it seemed okay, but then I read the article. This law's too broad. If it only affected drunks carrying firearms into the bar, that would be one thing. But this would affect someone that keeps a survival rifle in their trunk or even someone passing through town to go hunting. I've never seen a drinking establishment that wasn't within 200ft of a road. This proposed law is really pretty ridiculous.
RETICENT_IRREVERENT (Ronaldo Ignacio) says…
As of July 1, 2005, per Kansas statutes it is legal to carry a firearm anywhere in the state as long as it's unloaded and in an enclosed container. The law prevents local governments from imposing more stringent controls. The law does however, allow local governments to have less restrictive transportation requirements.
This ordinance would only affect those who are carrying a firearm that was not unloaded and in an enclosed container, or did not have a concealed carry permit.
If your firearm is unloaded in an enclosed container, or you have a concealed carry permit, you would not be subject to any prosecution for possessing a firearm within 200 feet of a drinking establishment.
However, If you were strolling down the west side of the 700 block of NewHampsire street at 2:AM, carrying a properly contained and enclosed unloaded firearm...
There is probably some other statute that they could charge you with violating.
erod0723 (anonymous) says…
having a gun law is a good thing, but putting people in jail for a year for legally owning a gun is rediculous. I am not saying that I am in favor of the Kansas carry conceal law... but it is our law now, so we should recognize it. The only thing that putting a person that had a gun in a bar will do is waste our tax dollars. Don't we have enough people in jail as is?
budwhysir (anonymous) says…
Strict laws are all around us, its how we enfource them that makes the difference
rousseau108 (anonymous) says…
Too many people are overreacting. This ordinance does not apply to someone who has a Concealed Carry permit. They can walk down the street within 200 feet of a bar, they just can't go in it. And that's the STATE law, not the city law. Read the new CCH statute. Besides, how many patrons of Last Call do you think have applied for and qualified for a concealed carry permit? And people caught with firearms near a bar (without a CCH permit) can and do get taken to jail at that time. They just bond out.