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Do you support a proposed law in the city of Lawrence that would afford protection to transgendered people?

Response Percent Votes
No
 
49% 624
Yes
 
45% 576
Not sure
 
5% 65
Total 1265

Comments

pure_republication 3 years, 2 months ago

Transgendered individuals are people as well! They need protection as we all do by the rule of law! some folks are just born with the wrong body!

ivalueamerica 3 years, 2 months ago

I see no reason to allow special protection to bigots who feel justified in committing bigotry.

In this day and age bigots have to realize their days of having free reign to treat those they are uncomfortable with as less than full and equal citizens.

phoggyjay 3 years, 2 months ago

So you're admitting you were born a bigot. Don't worry with some treatment, you can change into a "love one, love all" type of person. Keep at it, you can do it!

dwendel 3 years, 2 months ago

Poor Sam. His soft little hands are getting callused from washing the feet of the money changers. And it's so hard to hire disciples from Florida to take from the poor and sick so the Kochs can feast and orgy. Suffering greatly while walking in the footsteps of Jesus -- that's our Sham..

ivalueamerica 3 years, 2 months ago

Bigotry against Christians or against Christian Supremecists?

That brings home the point of my first post here.

I could care less if you are a Christian or Gay or Transgendered or a Bigot, but when you decided that gives you special permission to treat those you do not like as less than equal, then you quit simply having your given right to your beliefs and start taking away others. That should be illegal and met by negative consequences in a civilized society.

Susan Rickman 3 years, 2 months ago

The repeal of DADT doesn't account for the transgendered community.

BeeBee3 3 years, 2 months ago

Someone should send you "too" grammar school. You know what is nasty? Ignorance. I feel sorry for people like you. Oh, wait. No I don't.

grammaddy 3 years, 2 months ago

Ignorance is a choice,too.Much more than homosexuality or being transgender.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 2 months ago

Was "bigot" the word of the day on the Abusive Terms for the Use of Unpleasant People calendar?

blogme 3 years, 2 months ago

Largest sperm bank now is rejecting sperm donations from red heads. Looks like red heads will be the next protected class. Can't wait until bald/fat people are a protected class so I can finally join the ranks of the more equal class.

appleaday 3 years, 2 months ago

Bald fat people are a dime a dozen. This is America.

blogme 3 years, 2 months ago

Yeah but if the leftists have their way, my numbers will diminish when they outlaw the foods we like to eat, because after all, they are looking after my best interests.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

I think we should let you eat whatever you want, and die an early death from the consequences of your diet/lifestyle, provided, of course, that your decisions don't cost anybody else a dime.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@blogme: Red heads, bald people, and fat people are not the same as historically excluded minorities like African Americans, Jews, women, and LGBT people.

gphawk89 3 years, 2 months ago

What kind of protection are we talking about? If it's the same protection already provided to the general population by current laws, then no, transgendered folks are already covered and we don't need another law. If it's providing additional protection to transgendered folks (above and beyond that of the general population), then no, that would be discriminatory. So that would make my answer "no".

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

This population isn't in fact "covered" by existing laws - it's legal to refuse to rent to them, serve them as a customer, etc.

gphawk89 3 years, 2 months ago

So we're giving transgendered folks additional protection. Then my answer is "no".

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

Why?

Would it have been ok with you if black people, or Jews, or women, were denied housing, employment, etc. because of those things?

If not, why is this any different?

If so, then you clearly don't believe that people should be treated equally, which goes against our Constitutional origins, and the history of our legislative and judicial bodies.

gphawk89 3 years, 2 months ago

I do believe that people should be treated equally. That's exactly the point of my comment. Giving transgendered (or black, or Jewish, or female) people ADDITIONAL protections because they're transgendered, black, Jewish, or female would be unfair to those who are NOT. If you're going to enact a law, it has to apply to EVERY citizen equally. I'm all for that. If a law is written to specifically protect members of a particular special interest group, no. Hence, I'm against this law.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@gphawk89: It's the same protection in that it grants what the majority takes for granted: the freedom to do the most basic of things, i.e., earn a living, have a home, buy groceries and clothes.

lunacydetector 3 years, 2 months ago

new privacy laws will need to be written for the privacy of using a public restroom. i wonder how long this post will last?

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

Gay and lesbian people use public restrooms and showers every day. This issue was settled when Lawrence added sexual orientation to its human rights code in 1995: straight people don't get first dibs or a veto over gay and lesbian people having equal access to facilities.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 2 months ago

As I see it, people suggest that "bigots" be required to accept those people, 'transgendered" even if they find them to b e offensive. So, where do we draw the line? Should the "bigoted" be forced to accept those that they find offensive, the "bigoted?"

A transgendered person owns a home and wants to rent out a room - should they be forced to rent it to a qualified person who by virtue of their dress and tattoos represent all the transgendered person fines offensive? If not, then why not? What is the difference?

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

Bigotry is characterized by a strong and irrational prejudice against a class of people, often over traits that are immutable or close to it. It creates patterns of exclusion for minority communities.

In your example of a landlord, refusing to rent to African Americans, Jews, or LGBT people because of a bias against the class is qualitatively different than refusing to rent to bikers who wears leather and have tattoos, both of which you dislike.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

So it's ok to not rent to people who wear clothes you don't like or have tattoos you don't like, even if they're otherwise qualified tenants?

Fred Mertz 3 years, 2 months ago

Darn didn't proof....should be, Should the non-bigoted be forced to accept the bigoted.

Fred Mertz 3 years, 2 months ago

Sure - just look at some of the comments toward them - not saying that they are undeserved, but just the same, the "inclusive" crowd is not really inclusive.

George_Braziller 3 years, 2 months ago

This is the kind of ignorance on the issue proving why this is needed.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@consumer1: If the employer was pro-transgender biased, yes. The protections are for the trait generally and cut both ways. In practice, reverse LGBT discrimination is rare. The only cases I've heard of are LGBT bars or LGBT sports leagues.

Stuart Evans 3 years, 2 months ago

people are people. the same laws should cover everyone; straight, gay, black, white, et. al.

topekan7 3 years, 2 months ago

The Caucasianed man walked down the emptied street with his littled whited dog. They went to the neighborhooded park and played in the greened grass. Transgender. Not transgendered. Please.

Clara Westphal 3 years, 2 months ago

Everyone is covered under the present laws. If anyone is refused service, etc., maybe tjhere is another reason.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

Actually, they're not.

If you read the city's anti-discrimination law, it doesn't cover transgender individuals.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@westcl: Laws only protect certain classes of minorities. "Everyone" is not protected.

Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964: race, color, religion, sex, national origin

Kansas Acts Against Discrimination: race, religion, color, sex, disability, national origin, ancestry, familial status

Lawrence human rights code: race, sex, religion, color, national origin, age, ancestry, familial status, sexual orientation, or disability

Flap Doodle 3 years, 2 months ago

I long for the day I can apply for a job wearing a crotchless Yogi Bear mascot suit and not be judged by my appearance.

Katara 3 years, 2 months ago

There is a movement to help classify Furries as a protected class. Perhaps you should look into it?

Wadde 3 years, 2 months ago

No...not if it assaults Womens character ; some transgender characterizations leads to gender character assinations...

Alceste 3 years, 2 months ago

The same "democracy" that forced Bush into the Presidency and the same "democracy" that has placed Brownback into "power". "Democracy" is more than just a word. More and more, citizens of Lawrence will come ot understand that a tyranny of the majority (and "majority rule is the foundation for "Democracy") is generally a bad idea.......

In the meantime.....I must say I, personally, like it! A tyranny of the majority is forcing me to go to the bank 2x per week now with them deposits. Life is grand in Kansas, where Democracy rules......well....a tyranny of the majority at the very least most certainly does.....

Carry on!

Charlie Bannister 3 years, 2 months ago

I am so weary of dividing ourselves up constantly into all these special interest groups. We have all the racial minorities, gays, transgendered, etc. How about we just try the title "American" and call it good. If you want to live a certain way then do it. We are still somewhat free after all. Folks we have incredible problems in this country that need solving. Let's concentrate on those and quit playing "Poor little me. I am just a victim and need special treatment and protections." Good heavens, grow up people.

Richard Smith 3 years, 2 months ago

What is discrimination again? Who gets to define what discrimination is in reality? What does it really mean to be transgender? Who gets to define that? Do we have any real evidence that this particular group is being discriminated against? If the laws already in place don't work, then why will new laws help do anything but cause more lawsuits and issues about bathrooms?

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@RichardS:

"What is discrimination again?"

Legally, we seem to have settled on a few basic areas (e.g., employment, housing, public accommodation, and credit) for a few historically excluded minority communities (e.g., race, religion, nationality, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability).

"Who gets to define what discrimination is in reality?"

Americans through their elected representatives at all levels of government. We have the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Fair Housing Act, and Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed by congress; the Kansas Acts Against Discrimination passed by the Kansas legislature; and Lawrence's human rights code passed by our city commission.

"What does it really mean to be transgender?"

To identify with a gender different than the sex assigned to you at birth.

"Who gets to define that?"

Minority groups occur naturally, and society invents a label. Terms like race, sexual orientation, and gender identity follow what we observe.

"Do we have any real evidence that this particular group is being discriminated against?"

Yes. For example: http://thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

"If the laws already in place don't work, then why will new laws help do anything but cause more lawsuits and issues about bathrooms?"

To the extent that there are new lawsuits, that represents the legal system addressing discrimination that was ignored before.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@kosmo513: American minorities deal with discrimination every day. What's more adult than that? But sometimes, discrimination is so severe that even adults need help. If prejudice is so strong that an employer will fire a qualified employee on bias alone, that employee is truly a victim. The solution is not special treatment. It is a guarantee of the American freedoms those in the majority take for granted. Prohibiting an employer from firing you because of, for example, a racial bias, is hardly some kind of unfair giveaway.

Jeremiah Jefferson 3 years, 2 months ago

What about my right to not accept that lifestyle as a soical norm? As an American individual, I reserve the right to dislike, hate and discriminate against who ever and what ever I want. I'm sick of hearing about special rights for those who choose to live outside of normal society. Thats great if people want to be gay or what ever, but quit pushing it and tolerance on the rest of the world. Keep that crap to yourself and your significant other if thats the lifestyle you choose to live. Most people, including myself don't care. But I dang sure don't want to hear about it.

BeeBee3 3 years, 2 months ago

The only 'choice' made is the choice to be happy, fyi. How dare someone 'push' tolerance.. God forbid. PS- I imagine that quote on your tombstone.. "As an American individual, I reserve the right to dislike, hate and discriminate against who ever and what ever I want." What a way to be remembered.

Kirk Larson 3 years, 2 months ago

Some day someone could well come along and say that you are not "normal" (whatever the heck that means) and pull the rug out from under your life. What then?

gsxr600 3 years, 2 months ago

Can LJW provide a link for "related story" in these kind of polls? That would help

Tony Kisner 3 years, 2 months ago

I read the article the commissioner of the be nice groups said it perfectly this will give anyone standing to file a complaint seek compensation on the grounds they think they were repjected for what ever including a job based on what They may think. So if I have a fleeting thought of dressing as the opposite sex, apply for a job get rejected for any reason including lack of cash to pay employees I can file a claim if I feel that I was rejected because I want to wear men's clothing maybe sometimes.

BeeBee3 3 years, 2 months ago

Right.. this is a valid argument. I am sure SO many men will run out and grab women's clothing and use that defense. I can just see it now in the headlines "Another Lying Cross-Dresser Fools the System." Really?

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@Easy_Does_It: Over 40% of the U.S. population now lives in jurisdictions that ban gender identity discrimination. Fifteen states, including neighbors Iowa and Colorado, ban it statewide. The consequences you predict just haven't happened.

BeeBee3 3 years, 2 months ago

Until it hits home for you.. no one gives a damn. It is the way of the world. All of those blabbing about "why do they get special treatment? That's total bs." Imagine tomorrow you find out your son or daughter.. or sister or brother feels like they were born in the wrong body (transgendered) and the only way they can be happy and avoid depression is by living as the person they TRULY are. Then imagine that same loved one is terrorized in their community for doing so. Imagine they are denied a job for being who they are, denied being served at a restaurant, denied renting an apartment. Then get back to me. And it is a proactive and smart ordinance. Not a reactive one.

xclusive85 3 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like you have some experience with this. I don't, and don't want to sound offensive or uncaring, but that is probably the way this is going to be read.

Is the transgendered person truly a man or a woman? If someone is born as a man, but feels they are a woman, does that actually make them truly a woman? The same for the other way around, if someone is born a woman and theny feel they are a man, does that make them a man?

If I feel like I am a rabbit, does that make me a rabbit? Or would that just make me mentally unstable? I think if I went hopping around just doing what rabbits do, I would eventually be committed. (I am not saying that transgendered people should be committed.) I guess what I want to know is what makes someone TRULY what they are?

BeeBee3 3 years, 2 months ago

All I am asking is that people please educate themselves before you judge or vote down an ordinance. Being transgendered is a disorder- called gender identity disorder- and it is listed in The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. People often show signs of the disorder at a very young age. It is not a willy nilly decision because someone just feels a little "tomboy"some day(to relate to your rabbit statement). It is not a phase. It is a disconnect between the brain and the body. Parents of kids as early as THREE have reported their child not being comfortable with the sex they were born as. Its not about what is TRUE on the outside. Yes a man who is a man on the outside may be perceived as a man.. understandably. But when the brain is disconnected and they perceive themselves as the other gender (therein lies the gender identity disorder) they have a major conflict and there are two choices. Either live feeling that way forever (it doesn't 'go away' and can't be 'çured') or living as the gender they feel they are inside. Assuming you are male.. Imagine waking up one day as a woman. How would that make you feel? Probably super uncomfortable and 'öut of body'. That's exactly how they describe that they feel all the time.

Also- I do not have experience with knowing someone with this disorder.. but studied it in psychology classes in college. I am a member of the LGBT community however. I appreciate you being honest in your post.

PS- here is a good video to help you better understand... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKyysbmItHk

Cant_have_it_both_ways 3 years, 2 months ago

But when the brain is disconnected and they perceive themselves as the other gender (therein lies the gender identity disorder) they have a major conflict and there are two choices. Either live feeling that way forever (it doesn't 'go away' and can't be 'çured') or living as the gender they feel they are inside. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Almost the same thing can be said about a pedophile, and they can't be cured either.

BeeBee3 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, pedophilia is also a disorder. If it is acted upon it is illegal.. for understandable reasons.. because it can hurt others- namely innocent children. Transgendered people- in just being the gender they were born to be- who are they hurting?

Cant_have_it_both_ways 3 years, 2 months ago

So then I guess that you mean that transgender is a mental illness. Have it your way, but the rest of us have the right to shield our children from this less than accepted lifestyle.

Katara 3 years, 2 months ago

You can shield your children, I guess. From what I am not sure. I don't see a reason to shield them to begin with. Transgender people are not going to do anything to them.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

If it's a mental illness or disorder, then it should be treated, shouldn't it?

Katara 3 years, 2 months ago

The treatment is usually considered a sex change.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

Except perhaps the brain is incorrect, not the body - then it would be better to change one's self-perception than undergo radical surgery.

I'm just going by Bee-Bee's comments that there's a disconnect between the brain and body, and that it's a DSM disorder.

Not having known any tg folks, I don't really know what's going on, but I've always wondered about the condition.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 2 months ago

@jafs: The American Psychiatric Association's position is that the physiology should be changed to match the identity. They haven't delisted it as a disorder (as they did with homosexuality) in part because health insurers and Medicare will only cover hormones and sex changes if its listed.

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

That seems odd to me.

If it were some other misperception about the body, like anorexia, or somebody thought they were taller than they are, etc. it seems logical to change the perception, not undergo surgery.

Why is this any different?

Katara 3 years, 2 months ago

Because there is evidence that this may have been something that originated in the womb. Hormones may not have been released at the "proper" time. There is not enough understanding with how that works. It makes more sense to change the body than the mind because the window that was available in the womb is no longer available when the person is born and aware of how they are.

Your argument suggests that transgender people can and should be "reprogrammed".

Anyhow, why would a gender reassignment surgery impact you or your family?

jafs 3 years, 2 months ago

It doesn't affect me personally either way.

I'm interested in a number of topics that don't do that, and this is one of them.

I certainly hope that's all right with you, or do you think I only get to think about things that affect me directly?

And, I'm not making an argument of the sort you think - I'm just thinking about the subject. Gender reassignment seems like a rather drastic thing for somebody to do, and I wonder if it might not be a better approach to come at it from the other direction.

Are you saying that some people are in fact somehow "born wrong" when it comes to their gender?

Katara 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, some people are somehow "born wrong" (for the lack of a better way to put it) when it comes to gender. All sorts of things happen during fetal development that don't necessarily mean that the outcome is the "perfect" baby. I don't think people should be penalized for something beyond their control and being discriminated against is doing just that.

Do you understand what one has to go through to get to the gender reassignment surgery? There are numerous psychological evaluations. There are numerous physical evaluations. These must be done in order to rule out any other reason why the person may feel that their body and mind do not match.

Once those are done, one has to live as the other gender. That really is not as easy as it sounds, particularly if one was raised with rigid gender roles. On top of that, you have all the people who are freaked out that you don't behave in what are considered normal gender roles.

After that, you get to do the hormones to prep your body. Any type of hormone therapy has issues (changes that are unexpected, mood swings, etc).

The last stage is gender reassignment. I can't even begin to imagine how difficult the physical recovery could be from that.

This isn't someone making a decision lightly or being uninformed about their options. These decisions are made with much education and thought.

Cant_have_it_both_ways 3 years, 2 months ago

I don't think a sex change would fix them either.

Gawd, wouldn't it be nice to see hairy legs under fishnet stockings walking down Mass street?

Barry Watts 3 years, 2 months ago

What if I am born a white, caucasian male and yet I feel like I was born "in the wrong body". I feel like an African American... who am I? A caucasian or an African American?

ivalueamerica 3 years, 2 months ago

Science has not discovered that issue and there is no diagnosis.

That is greatly contrary to gender identity disorder.

If you are going to make up scenarios without any actual scientific basis for them, any history or any real life experience, you are just playing games.

That being said, you should be able to identify however you want.

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