Dec. 12, 2013 |
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Only if one has been taught respect for the flag and the country. But I also respect your right to be disrespectful.
That is weird!!
I personally don't give a hoot if someone wants to walk around and be disrespectful when the National ANthem is being played. What pisses me off royally is when those folks come up to me and try to engage me in conversation and get pissy when I tell them to wait a minute. That's happened to me several times.
If someone is that prone to sunburn, they should be wearing sunscreen even on one's balding head. The National Anthem takes a little less than 2 minutes to sing. Two minutes isn't going to cause a great deal of harm to anyone.
People should stop rationalizing their bad behavior and stand up, take off their hat put it, or their hand over their heart, and show some respect.
Sunscreens usually have cancer causing chemicals in them. Don't worry about that though, let's admire the flags for minutes, times millions, forever, Amen.
And the sun doesn't cause cancer?
Yes, that's one thing people should do. Another thing people should do is mind their own freaking business.
I am bald, have skin cancer, but I always remove my hat for the flag and the National Anthem, and prayer.
cool handle alert!!! "loosecaboose" gets my vote for best name
Anyone who sits around and tries to come up with a reason for NOT removing one's hat during the anthem is simply out of touch with manners and respect. Manners that were apparntely never taught to them as a child. To me it says a lot about what is wrong with this country. Further, it is disrespectful for a male to wear a baseball cap indoors, which is something one could not get away with in the military. Oh, for the good ole days of the draft.
I already posted this on another blog: http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/did_i_say_that/2010/aug/12/the-clouse-mandell-summit/
But it is funny:
There was nothing good about the draft.
Soldiers cannot remove their hats because it is part of the uniform.
Women are not expected to remove their hats.
Emily Post, in 1922, says “It is not necessary to add that every American male citizen stands with his hat off at the passing of the ‘colors’ and when the national anthem is played. If he didn’t, some other more loyal citizen would take it off for him.” It would seem to me that this act of forcing someone to remove their hat would disrespect the flag; further, the more “loyal citizen” she describes is actually virtually spitting on what the flag and the anthem represent.
On that note, I think one soldier’s comments I read recently said it best when he said the following: “I always thought showing true respect for the flag and song itself was in having the right to choose whether to keep my hat on or off.”
Then why not make one's genuine feelings known, expressing their freedom of speech, and while everyone else is standing hand-over-heart, hat in hand, why not encourage these punks to stand and raise high the middle finger of their right hand, thus sharing their feelings with all involved? That ought to give them the respect they deny their country.
Leave it to Merrill to rationalize that a simple action of respect toward this country is unnecessary and somehow unpatriotic. Sheesh...they don't get much more left-wing nutty than this guy.
Merrill did not think of anything he stated. It is cut and pasted directly from the first hit on Google about taking off you hat during the national anthem.
just more of the "i want to sit on my ass and let the rest of society and the government pay my way through life" ideals.
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I am never somewhere in public where the national anthem is being sung or performed, so I don't have to take off my hat.
Well to think of it, I don't own a hat anyway.
i always forget to doff the cap when the colors go by but always remember at sporting events.
Ask your 10 year old if he or she even knows what the anthem is. Ask them what the Pledge of Allegiance is. Ask them to tell you 3 of the Ten Comandments . And you think many will take of there hat, Haa Haa , your asking alot. Those days are over.
They learn the anthem and pledge in school, so if your kids don't know it, you need to check them for learning disablities. And they learn the Ten Commandments in church, if they are Christian, Jewish, or Muslim (bet you didn't know the Old Testament was part of the Islam holy book). If they belong to any other religion, they learn a differnt set of "commandments" for proper behavior. If they are atheist they learn manners for behaving in civil society. Why would a Buddhist teach the Ten Commandments to their children, except to teach them about Christianity? Or is religous freedom only for Christians?
I didn't say you shouldn't show respect. I was responding to kansasmutt's feeling that his kids aren't learning respect for the flag in school, when, in fact, they are taught it. I also pointed out that it's up to the parents to teach about their religous tenants, and that not all religions have the 10 commandments. If his kids don't know these things, then there is something wrong with him.
Ask your 10-year-old if he or she knows the difference between "there" and "their" and when to use each. Ask your 10-year-old if he or she knows when to use "your" and "you're." Obviously you don't. We'll fight to enforce jingoistic patriotism, but basic elementary-school literacy, well that's another story. I would rather my kids be able to write a gramatically correct sentence than be able to recite a lot of religious or patriotic dogma.
My 10- year- old grandson knows all of that, so does his 6-year -old brother. And after witnessing the firefighter at FSHS, they don't want to wear hats any more.
Thanks Multi! I'm still having nightmares about what I had to do for the last Klondike bar I had. This one was easy.
Why do we need this 'patriot' test before every sporting event?
no, I'm a regular idiot like you.
Post of the day. Classic.
Of course people should be respectful during the national anthem, but it's just a hat. If someone forgets to take it off, it's not like it's treason. Everyone is ready to forgive big corporations for taking jobs out of the country so they can make huge profits and ruin our economy, which is unpatriotic, but they can't stand it if someone forgets to take their hat off? Priorities, people! And why should men be the only ones to take off their hat? I am a fememinist, and I wonder why men haven't questioned this.
I don't believe it should be required unless a person really feels it. I stand but do not put my hand over my heart. I usually don't wear hats.
Well, by most accounts, the illegal immigrant population is 12+%...maybe that accounts for the vote. I will always remove my hat as a sign of respect for those who have fought and died for those colors.
Yes you should take off the hat. However, if you attend a football game in January at Arrowhead and the temp's at -10, you will see a lot of stocking hats & hoods still on the head. Questions, does this also apply to women - do women have to take off their hats?
Aha! I've been to dozens of Chiefs games & seen the same thing. People there seem to figure out when to take off the cap & when not to. I never ever saw anybody raise hell about it.
I think one should only be ALLOWED to take off their hat, cover their heart, etc., IF they vote.
I always take off my hat and my shirt.
Hey you! with the shirt!
Why ya wearing a shirt? We don't like your kind around here.
Are you sure 1029 is a guy? 1029 you go girl :)
merrill - "Soldiers" as you call them, are required to take off their hats (both male and female) when inside, except for a few occassions, ie: their working assignments, ie: on the flight line and also at formal occassions. The hat is part of the uniform,as you say, but you will not see a "soldier" working at a desk, wearing their hat. I can only assume you have never served.
Meh...land of the free right? Why can't I leave my hat on?
Of course, I normally don't wear caps or sleeves...
"Why can't I leave my hat on?"... That's the point. You can. I lost an uncle and a cousin defending your right to wear a cap, or call our president names or to piss on the flag. I respect and love my country, so I take mine off and say a quiet thank you to those who died for our freedom of choice.
You do realize that the worship of idols (i.e. flags) is forbidden in Christianity, right?
I wasn't aware that showing respect was the same as worship. Seriously, I don't care whether you take your hat off or not during the national anthem, so long as you appreciate the fact that you live in a country that doesn't penalize you for your choice.
I thought hats were mandatory for sans sleeve attire :)
I agree one should stand and take their hat off to show respect, but realize not everyone here is american or cares about our anthem. I have been to games where the crowd booed the canadian anthem after the playing of the american, how disrespectful is that. And yea, keep your hands to yourself!
I would but no one in this free country should be forced to, or stand, or recite anything or sing anything. Also, there are probably some cultures where men shouldn't remove a hat or head covering in public, same with women. We should respect their cultural values and they should respect ours but not to the extent of making them do something against those values. I lived in a foreign country as a child and while I stood respectfully for their national anthem I never sung it or saluted their flag. It was my choice to stand and be silent.
The womens hats written about in 1922 (and up thru the 1960s) are far different than the hats most women (who wear them) wear today. Back then, a hat was often worn as part of their outfit anytime when leaving the house. The bouffant and beehive hairstyles helped to kill the hat industry. When stark/plain 'sack' dresses became popular, something was needed to counteract that starkness, and those big, teased styles were born to go with them.
Today, if you see a woman in a hat, it's usually a cap or other type of casual wear, not an outfit completer.
Should women remove their hats today? If they want to. If they're wearing a ball cap and think men should remove theirs, then I think they should remove theirs too.
What if you are one of these folks?
By the time you got the hat off, the song would be over.
Most of us do not like everything about America. However, most of us like something about America.
Perhaps removal of headwear during the anthem should not be seen as blanket approval for the entirety of our nation's actions and instead be seen as gratitude/respect for that *something" we like.
Or, just be that guy and leave your hat on and/or batter someone for doing just that.
Most American Muslims don't wear turbans but to answer your question, no it would not because a turban is a cultural item, not Islamic. Are you thinking of Sikhs? Turbans are required wear for men in the Sikh religion and there was a Sikh soldier that became an officer a few months ago and the military accommodated his turban. I think he was the first one ever allowed to graduate while wearing a turban. He even has a helmet designed to fit over it during combat operations.
Sikhs are awesome!
They really are. The Sikhs I've known have had a really interesting, insightful worldview. It seems like they get along with everybody, although I'm sure there are exceptions.
No problem. Here's the article from NPR if you're interested. CNN and FOX did stories on him as well, if I remember correctly.
I don't know that a turban is the same as a hat. What if a Jewish person didn't want to remove his yarmeluke? Would that be unpatriotic?
I think it's pretty stupid to legislate what people should wear/not wear during the playing of ANY song, but it's actually a law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/301.html
the asking of this question alone shows a great disrespect for God & Country. It shows where we are today, Wake up America. Take your hat off for the ones who died protecting your rights not to take off your hat off. And even though a lame president doesn't place his hand over his heart during the star spangled banner or National anthem, do it yourself so that you can be more of an America citizen then he is. Do you not have family members who have given their lives for this country? I'll be glad to share with you my people who have died. Do you not know what a privilege it is to find yourself here? Do you even care? If not allow us to show you where the line is to be shot. Who was the first to want to take "In God We Trust" off our public buildings, courts and currency, he should be at the front of the line. The cost to live here is low, learn the English language, Respect America, get out, or don't complain when we knock your hat off when you fail to remove it.
So if you aren't shown respect, you will force it. That indicates freedom how exactly?
When did God enter this conversation?
So now the American flag is tied to God (a Christian God I assume)?
"You can do it your own way,
If it's done just how I say..."
Metallica, And Justice For All...
Maybe we could load all those people you speak of onto trains to be disposed of?
Or better yet...
Their lives are equal to hats...
Why don't you ask a vet if they would prefer you take your hat off during the Anthem.
How many of you complaining about taking your hat off scream "home of the Chiefs" at Arrowhead? So much time wasted complaining about hats when we have men and women at war. Do you really think soldiers on patrol in Afghanistan care if a guy kept his hat on during the national anthem at a high school band performance. Good grief. You want to complain about disrespecting the anthem - boycott the Chiefs. That means no paying attn to anything Chiefs because they have encouraged disrespecting the anthem for years and years. No game for you tonight.
The guy could have politely ask the man to please remove his hat for respect to our flag. Then if he hadn't after the anthem I would have told the guy he was disrepectful to our flag and a disgrace to our country....that he should leave if he doesn't like America.
It was not his place nor your place to enforce the "hats off" convention. Maybe some people don't see leaving the hat on as a sign of disrespect. If someone is obeying the laws and paying taxes just like the rest of us, it's none of your business whether or not he takes his hat off during the National Anthem. Maybe YOU should leave America for being a narrow-minded intolerant jerk -- a disgrace to our country.
For me, it's more a matter of respect than anything else. My grandpa always taught us that you don't wear a hat at the dinner table, just as you stand at respect when the National Anthem is played. For that matter, I always stand respectfully if I'm at a game when they play the Canadian Anthem. I don't put my hand over my heart, but we still acknowledge them. That said, it's not something that you have to do, it's what you should do, and no one deserves to have a hand put on them over it. It seems like that would negate the whole point of taking it off.
I am curious as to the origins of the entire "hat removal as a sign of respect" gesture.
I haven't found anything concrete as to its formation, but I have found some references to medevil times with knights having to remove their hats in the presence of the King as a sign of obediance and deference to him, as well as to show the King you trust him not to kill you or even that you are willing to submit to him even if he does elect to kill you. It is also believed that is where saluting originated too, (two knights meet and raise there visors etc.).
Maybe someone else has more insight into this practice and might be willing to elaborate?
The more appropriate poll question would be "Is it acceptable to accost someone for not removing their hat at the playing of the National Anthem?
Most people agree that it's proper decorum to remove one's hat while the anthem is played. That certainly doesn't mean that most people find it acceptable to go around policing those who forget to do so, those who just don't know any better, or those who know the etiquette, but prefer to leave their hat on, anyway. The irony is that when we pay respect to the flag and the National Anthem, we are largely saluting the freedom that accompanies them. That includes the freedom to decline participation in patriotic rituals.
To remove your hat and put your hand over your heart for the flag, to me, should NEVER be an obligation, it is a privelage.
In Peru, come independence day, you MUST fly a Peruvian flag over your home, or you can get a fine from the local government.
I applaud and support patriotism, but it should come from the heart, not by obligation or it looses all meaning.
you should change your name to ihatetheConstiutiton, traitor.
I wouldn't be surprised to see this issue in the next election. Constitutional amendments in all the states requiring males to remove their hats, hoods, etc., when the national anthem is played. Another way to pander about patriotism.
Stupid question. Of course you take your hat off during the National Anthem. Is society that far gone that these is even a debatable question?
Depends. Which country's national anthem are we talking about?
Actually, beatrice, that is not true. it is always better to take off your hat. I do for the Peruvian anthem, but I do NOT put my hand on my heart as I do for the US anthem because I respect Peru, but do not pledge my patriotic allegance.
If I am at a function that has reason to provide anthems of another country, I believe a certain level of respect is important.
I can not imagine myself going to an event to honor venezuela, for example, but if I did, I would have the minimum courtesy to remove my hat for the anthem out of respect to their people despite my disrespect for their current government.
I've accepted this one as a lost cause...
You hardly ever see anyone under age 60 taking off their hat for the National Anthem.
As archaic as it sounds, in the distant past men always removed their hats before entering a building.
You are also supposed to put your hand over your heart as well, but i usually only see about 50% of the people doing that.
We are so incredibly spoiled in this country and we're getting really good at disrespecting it. This is the greatest country in the world, and I am proud and privileged to live within its boarders.
our presidents respect for the flag/pledge/national anthem...
Mr. Right Wings 995th Piece of Wisdom from the right!
There also used to be a time when people had respect for the office of the President of the United States, and a grown adult would have been ashamed to be caught calling the President childish names.
Oh, is that what this is all about? I agree he does look a little odd just standing there with his hands at his waist.
I was taught forty-odd years ago that:
A.) Civilian Male: Stand and take your hat off if worn and hold it over your heart with your right hand. Otherwise place your right hand over your heart.
B.) Civilian Female: Stand and place your right hand over your heart, whether or not you are wearing a hat.
C.) Military personnel in uniform: Come to attention and salute.
D.) Military personnel in civvies: Follow rule A or B as appropriate.
Vet: Remove your hat and stand at the position of attention.
I'll stand when the national anthem is played, but that is mostly so I don't have to look at the ass of the person in front of me.
As for saluting, or taking off a hat, or putting my hand over my heart -- Get real. That's someone else's prayer, not mine, and someone else's pseudo-god.
When I was a cop a long time ago, some little martinet of a captain decided we all needed to salute the flag at sporting events. I usually made it a point just to be out of line of sight of the flag when the anthem was played, but when I couldn't escape it, I gave it my best two-fingered Cub Scout salute. That order was eventually rescinded.
So am I. The pay at what I do now is much, much better, and I have not been puked on, spat at or bitten ever since I quit.
But please, do tell me what the connection is between a person's willingness to kowtow to an inanimate object and a person's effectiveness as a law enforcement officer.
Yes, that's how you identify the communists -- They are the ones sitting down with their hands in their pockets and their hats on their heads during the national anthem. They are also the ones staring out the window when the rest of the good christian kids are praying the pledge of allegiance.
I don't know. My friend is kind of bald and using medication making him sun sensitive. He needs to be shaded. One graduation afternoon did him some harm. In the hot afternoon he should just put his hand over his heart and keep his hat on. Also for those folks who think everyone should stand, some people just don't have the knees. Don't assume or presume. Don't shame someone for attending a kid's event and not participating in the physical way you want. It really isn't your business. People should not have to explain physical or medical issues to strangers, even to friends.
Should we? Yes.
Should we have to? Absolutely not.
It makes me think of the whole flag-burning issue. By making sure someone has the right to burn the flag, it takes away much if not all of meaning intended from the actual act of burning that flag. Try doing it in a place where the law says you can't, then that is saying something. Demanding that someone take their hat off, stand at attention, put hand on heart at the playing of a song -- that is the type of thing you find in places like North Korea.
Fortunately, we aren't North Korea. Here in America, you do it because you want to, not because you are forced to. How perfect is that for a nation that enjoys its freedom?
Kiera is back with a Blog! Might stay in tonight!
Why pledge allegiance to anything? Does the country have the same allegiance to you? I'm not being a troll, I'm asking a serious question. I'm hoping get something a little better than the "people died for your freedoms" response because that is rarely true anymore about the U.S.'s armed conflicts abroad. Sure, people are dying, but I doubt it's for my "freedom."
I think about it like a business deal. It is currently mutually advantageous for me to live in the U.S.. The country gets my productivity and taxes, and I get a nice place to live. Should that balance change, however, I see no reason to pledge allegiance to the U.S.. I can live a similar lifestyle in 20 other countries (at least) and make similar contributions.
If one lousy President is enough to destroy any pride or affection you felt for this nation you probably never loved this nation at all. Why don't you go down to the Veteran's Hospital in Topeka, Leavenworth or Kansas City and tell them what you've written here.
Ho-hum, ho-hum, ho-hum.
Veterans died for my freedom, and Jesus died for my sins.
What of the millions and millions of other people who made this country what it is -- the teachers and cops and clerical staff and parents and farmers and bidnessmen and factory workers and sales people and food servers and union members and even the occasional honest politician. What of them? They live their lives and pay their taxes and raise their kids, and they eventually die, too, some as soon and as violently as veterans.
Get me an anthem that embraces everyone, and I'll take off my hat.
What school still lets kids say the Pledge of Allegiance ? I know of none that still alow it or if they do they take god out of it. What school still has the 10 commandments up for kids to see ? This country was founded on christian ways, i am not a church person, but with all the BS about , no god this no christmas tree, all the plitical corectness is BS. Owh and for my spellin, i dont kare how i spell, im not worried about it on here. (From above) " "" . I can live a similar lifestyle in 20 other countries (at least) and make similar contributions."" Move to one of them and see how free you are. granted, we americans have lost 70% of our freedoms, but it is better than most any other country.Well, it was before the last 3 years anyway, now it kinda sucks.
Free country. We do what we feel like. We obey laws. Firefighters are not meant to enforce patriotism.
If I fail to put a flag on my porch on Veteran's Day, will I get choked by a firefighter?
I guess in Lawrence you might be.
It would be nice if LJW would link the stories which inspired these questions to the online polls.
Unlike many who have given their lives so the flag can continue to fly (and others I know who have put their lives on the line to defend it), the least I can do is take off my hat and salute the flag.
What I am wondering is why it is such an issue that the guy doing the 'battering' is a firefighter? If the guy had chosen a different career path, would he be more/less condemned/supported?
Clovis: Sounds like you got your knickers in a bind; lighten-up a little and you'll have more fun! The comparison of the National Anthem and Pledge of Allegiance is at first understandable; but the former is patriotic song that is designed to be inspirational; the "Pledge" on the other hand is an oath which is supposed to mean that you obey it's tenants. Lost some of it's meaning for me when "under god" was added years ago.
True. The former is a hymn, whereas the latter is a prayer.
Since neither of them is to any god I acknowledge, I will pass on the opportunity to participate, thank you.
And I have lots of fun, but none of it involves self-serving displays of patriotism at sporting events.
I respect my country and especially the Constitution on which it is founded. I would rather see people with hats on or not, with hands over hearts or not, even listening to the anthem or not, than I would this faux patriotic jingoism "love it or leave it," "taking back 'my' country," "what has this country come to," etc. etc. etc. that is so prevalant right now.
Respecting my country means I care about what my country does, not only regarding its own citizens but as part of the larger world. Respecting my country means I care enough to point out problems as I see them, not blindly follow the flag no matter where it's being carried, literally and figuratively.
Whether my neigbor has his hat on or not has nothing to do with true respect.
I'm less concerned with removing hats than with turning the performance into an impromptu American Idol audition. Whatever happened to singing something straight?
USA.... Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.
Well, not so much anymore. People have their freedoms (and many of them have taken their 1st Amendment Right to extremes) but I'm not see many Brave anymore. Sad when taking off your hat to show respect is an 'option'.
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