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Who is correct about the amount of Kansas National Guard equipment available?

Response Percent Votes
Gov. Sebelius
 
66% 631
President Bush
 
29% 278
Undecided
 
4% 43
Total 952

Comments

bullmoose06 8 years, 1 month ago

States should not depend upon the National Guard for disaster response. It is not effecent nor a good use of funds.

Use other state agencies before using the National Guard. KDOT can respond quicker then a guard unit and most likely the a KDOT crew has more experence in the use of equipment such as frontend loaders.

Besides the Governor didn't look at all of her guard assests such as the Air National guard which should have had most of its equipment still in the state.

preebo 8 years, 1 month ago

WHAT!?! Are you serious? National Guard Units have historically been used in Natural Disaster response. The Guard itself, uses that as a selling point in recruiting efforts. I believe the motto is one minute helping our community in its time of need and the next serving over seas. Having said that, I understand that it is their duty ultimately to serve in the military (as they are part of said military) however, when equipment is left in Iraq or destroyed and not replaced then the Guard is crippled when it comes to responding to Natural Disasters. Something like, 48% of Kansas' Guard equipment was either destroyed or left behind in Iraq. Ultimately, that is the DOD's responsibility.

newsreader 8 years, 1 month ago

As Tony Snow said, all the Governer had to do was make the request but no request was made.

FlyingSpaghettiMonsterLove 8 years, 1 month ago

Someone should tell the national guard that states shouldn't depend on them for help. Here's what they seem to think (from http://www.kansasarmynationalguard.com/about.shtml)

The National Guard has a unique dual mission that consists of both Federal and State roles. For state missions, the governor, through the state Adjutant General, commands Guard forces. The governor can call the National Guard into action during local or statewide emergencies, such as storms, fires, earthquakes or civil disturbances.

gontek 8 years, 1 month ago

It makes me sick that every time there is an emergency situation in our country politics are played like this. I believe was asking for help when Snow responded with those statements. The administration are already deflecting blame two days after the incident? Should the governor take a day to survey the devistation in person or just trust the news in asking for disaster relieve in declaring an emergency? The Katrina political fiasco was bad enough, I can't believe it's repeating in Kansas now.

Sebilius was wrong to use this situation to make her political point about the Iraq war. Bush and Co responded with their smear on a female democratic governor in distress like she's Kathleen Blanco and Sebilius can't compete with that level of press coverage - but two wrongs don't blah blah blah.

FEMA staff pack their equipment before the storm resides - regardless of Bush's political blame deflecting statements - just like the firefighters and emergency responders who don't need to be asked to do their jobs and know the right thing to do and when to do it - even if it means ignoring laws and procedures.

FlyingSpaghettiMonsterLove 8 years, 1 month ago

Bowhunter: Who's trying to score points here? T-h-e g-o-v-e-r-n-o-r A-S-K-E-D o-n S-a-t-u-r-d-a-y:

(from www.fema.gov)

FEMA is working hand-in-hand with its partners in local, state and federal government as it coordinates the federal response to the devastating tornado that struck Greensburg, Kansas last Friday night. President Bush signed a federal disaster declaration hours after the state submitted its request on Saturday and federal aid was immediately made available.

monkeywrench1969 8 years, 1 month ago

Don't they also have to announce a state of emergency and then make the request. The tornado that blasted through Lawrence

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/may... http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2003/may...

Granted there were others inthe area around the same time, but it took the Governor around 1 1/2 to 2 days to get to Lawrence and pledge to work on getting federal assistance:

If you continue to look through other articles, The National Guard got involved in the middle of the night.

Did anyone see Obama said 10,000 people were killed in Kansas by accident and quoted our Gov. saying the equipment was in Iraq.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P0K1FG2&show_article=1

bearded_gnome 8 years, 1 month ago

while gov. c.bilius complains about lack of equipment, her own party is holding up guard replacement/repair moneys in two ways. the bill they are trying to micromanage the iraq war (unconsttitutionally) contains money to repair/replace guard equipment. and, with the money held up, current money for guard equipment repair/replacement has to be deverted to the current deployments. this is real depravity, to use the Greensburgers as political shills and make a sham antiwar statement of politics at their expense, while her party is clearly extending the problem of which she complains. shame shame shame.

Dale Stringer 8 years, 1 month ago

Well, there should be another answer to choose from: Both are Right. The KNG is short - true, point for the Gov. There is other equipment in other states we can get - true, point for Snow. Tie score. I wish each party would stop trying to make the other look bad and start trying to make themselves look good.

While I'm thinking about it... I wish all officials and the news agencys would stop telling the political affiliation of our elected official once they are in office (i.e. Rep. Name (D-state)). It makes me feel that that person only represents only the part of the state that got them elected and that they represent their party before they represent the people of the state.

FlyingSpaghettiMonsterLove 8 years, 1 month ago

First, let's hope the folks in Greensburg get the help they need, no matter who provides it.

Even if it comes from the federal government. Or do I hear a loud chorus of "the federal government needs to get out of our lives and let us take care of ourselves"? Didn't think so. No atheists in foxholes and not so many small-government conservatives in a disaster area.

I'm thinking the Gov said the equipment was in Iraq because it was in Iraq. Democrats and Republicans both voted to send it there in the first place. Now that particular equipment is not here and we have to backfill. Guess what: fighting a war costs. It costs lives, it costs disruption to families, it costs wounded bodies, it costs resources diverted from home and (sort of low on the list, really) it costs money.

When we decide to go to war, we need to get as good a handle as we can on the costs and decide whether it's worth it. We didn't do that up front but it's never too late to start facing up. If it's a political point to say "this equipment isn't here because of the war," then it's a point that needs to be made. Or was the Gov supposed to say "Normally we'd have Guard equipment here but today we don't because, um, leprechauns took it"? Or just pretend it was there after all?

We've stuck our heads in the sand about this "war on the cheap" long enough.

bullmoose06 8 years, 1 month ago

In an emergency Federal response takes about two or more days to arrive. Doesn't matter who is manageing FEMA its the shear size of the country and the size of FEMA. FEMA is a very small agency and is spread over the whole country. Most of their staffing is in the area of recovery, the rebuilding after a disaster, and not in the response area.

To activate and deploy a guard unit takes between 12 and 24 hours. The State can move in other State agencies such as KDOT in less time. Most states use guard units only after they have deployed and used the resources from the other state agencies. This pratice dates back to well before Sept 11, 2001.

staff04 8 years, 1 month ago

I enjoyed this editorial from yesterday's edition of the Politico. It appeared on the front page of the print edition:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0507/3891.html

ksmoderate 8 years, 1 month ago

The only entity in this fiasco that REALLY has egg on their face is the DoD. They were (and are) well aware that Nat'l Guard units all over the country are only at 40-60% of equipment readiness. They have had plenty of time to remedy this situation....at least two years.

And this has NOTHING to do with the recent war supplemental bill that Bearded Gnome is talking about....that bill is for the future, not the past. This 40-60% sh!#ty situation should have been remedied, if anything, by the 109th Congress (yes, BOTH parties).....before the mid-term elections.

princess 8 years, 1 month ago

The Gov has been complaining about the loss of equipment to the war long before this happened and Kansas isn't the only State with problems. No matter how the White House tries to spin this particular incident that fact isn't going away unless they take action. (and then it will still take years to replace the equipment) It is a ticking time bomb.

http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/feeds/prnewswire/2007/04/06/prnewswire200704061506PR_NEWS_B_NET_DC_DCF055.html http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/mar... http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/feb...

You'll note her efforts to get the equipment replaced here as well: http://www2.ljworld.com/blogs/military_matters/2006/dec/21/guard/

If she were a Republican they wouldn't be doing this to her. And part of me suspects that if she were a man she would be getting better treatment from the BushCo Bubba Network as well, but I really hope that isn't the case.

Frank Smith 8 years, 1 month ago

It seems worthy of note that almost every poster who was critical of Governor Sibelius had his or her facts wrong. The governor has been asking for replacement of equipment that was missing, destroyed or abandoned in Iraq for at least two years, personally to the president, face-to-face, in letters, phone calls and jointly with all 50 governors, all to no avail.

The governor showed up in Greensburg as soon as it was safe. The tornadoes didn't stop touching down until the next evening and the big one hit Greensburg at 9:30 p.m.

The governor asked for and received specific FEMA equipment, such as an office trailer.

The depleted Guard equipment that was most critical included the trucks needed to transport heavy equipment.

The reaction of the White House emanated from a desire to squelch any and all criticism of the unnecessary illegal invasion and occupation that has cost 3382 U.S. military deaths, hundreds more of those of the troops of our allies in this misadventure, no doubt over three quarters of a million Iraqis. It has left tens of thousands more Americans crippled and otherwise severely disabled. It has created over two million refugees from that poor nation less than 1% of which we have allowed to emigrate to the U.S. It has cost every American man woman and child over $2,000 so far, with bill far from in, and the entire tab put on the credit card. It also has earned us the enmity of most Muslims in the world, a billion people, most of whom had little problem with us before this collosal stupidity.

86 G.I.s from Ft. Riley have perished. 37 Kansas have also died, most from small towns that the majority of readers couldn't begin to locate on an unlabelled map of Kansas. This includes Jesse Davila from Greensburg, and three soldiers from Derby.

Bush is determined to continue this war al least until the end of his term in '09 and to leave it in such a state that his successor will have immense difficulty extricating us from this insanity. Tony Snow doesn't want us to know the real costs. It's his job to keep us distracted by criticizing and smearing a governor who is doing her job.

Sibelius was absolutely right. We are lucky to have her.

And let's not forget...

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"When a man gives his opinion he's a man. When a woman gives her opinion she's a b**ch." Bette Davis

bullmoose06 8 years, 1 month ago

KDOT doesn't have transporters to move heavy equipment? There are no transporters in the whole state of Kansas. There are other resources available to the Governor to respond to a disaster then the National Guard.

States as a part of their emergency management plan are required to plan for contingencies such as this. That includes planning on using all assest at their disposal including the contracting with local private firms to support emergency operations.

Which of these facts are not correct?

FlyingSpaghettiMonsterLove 8 years, 1 month ago

Bullmoose:

Not sure what your point is. We've got less equipment than we would have because it's overseas. So we have to backfill. Doesn't mean there's nothing else available, just means the job is harder than it needs to be. It's a cost of going to war.

If all the Gov had done was complain about the Guard equipment and sit on her hands, you'd have a point. As it is, she's got every right to say "You know, it sure would be nice to have that equipment back right about now." Especially since she's been beating the same drum for a couple of years.

Now let's get these people some new houses built.

princess 8 years, 1 month ago

It looks as though the Kansas Emergency Management is married now with Homeland Security and so conversely to the Kansas National Guard. (Homeland Security: We are everything and nothing all at the same time.) http://www.accesskansas.org/ksadjutantgeneral/

Oh and looky here...they ARE getting equipment from other "assets at their disposal" and doing the best that they can with what they have. Still while admitting that they don't have what they need. http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/archives/2007/05/051007-KS_cleanup.aspx

KDOT is also using equipment clearing the roads of debris though so who knows how much they have to spare. How silly though right? Using the Department of Transportation equipment to clear the roadways?

bearded_gnome 8 years, 1 month ago

moderate...nothing I wrote was incorrect. because the supplimental is held up, current moneys for guard repair/replacement of equipment is being shifted to fund current ops. current deployments.


now comes word that howard dean may have told governor c.bilius to make the greensburg tornado emergency political. she told brownback "I had to" "in today's political climate, we can't let something like this pass" something to that effect.

her first whining was on sunday's press conference. I will note I was the first to post on this issue on this paper's blogs. Coffeyville guardsmen were apparently mobilized in less than a day, a lot less than a day. we know there's a shortage of equipment, and she's right to have brought that to the president's attention but her party is mucking up the means to fix it. no shortage of people, according to the Adj gen of the ks guard. he also said (in contrast to the comments of bilius) that there were enough guardsmen. the problem would be if a second disaster struck. but in that circumstance, neighboring states' guard units would pitch in, just as we have.

finally, note that besides serving in iraq, ks guard units have served along the mex border (per bilius reelection ads) and in the former yugoslavia. just pointing out iraq because trying to make political traction...depraved.

bearded_gnome 8 years, 1 month ago

p.s. was not an illegal invasion. congress passed authorization of use of force, including votes by Kerry and Hillary. UN res 1441 found Saddam in material breach on many points; inspectors did find dozens of sanctionable violations, and we didn't need the international approval. that is because saddam was violating the 1991 treaty ending the first gulf war; violating it frequently. so we didn't need more reason than that. but if you want more: saddam was funding terrorists; harboring terrorists; paying off the families of homicide bombers; training terrorists in specific skills; maintaining contacts with alqaeda (that would come from GeorgeT the clinton-appointed CIA chief); and GeorgeT said "we believed he (Saddam) had weapons of mass distruction." good case...stop repeating the empty lies.

Kontum1972 8 years, 1 month ago

Tony Snow is just another "yes man" for the pencil head make believe cowboy, when snow croaks no one will remember him!

News_to_me 8 years, 1 month ago

This country may be at war, (you know the war on tara) but it is not the war in Iraq. It is a civil war that we don't belong in the middle of, on the periphery perhaps, but not in the middle. The sooner we make the Iraqis stand up for themselves, the sooner they will do so. Leave some troops there but get them out of harms way if at all possible. This game Whac-a-Sunni/Shia just isn't working.

bearded_gnome 8 years, 1 month ago

no specifics eh BABBOY? and citing foxnews is silly, it beats your liberal cable outlets combined in viewership...you who love polls! there's a poll, more news cable viewers prefer foxnews.

now on to this sillyness: and serves no useful purpose on the war on terror. Before you respond and say anything stupid (likley unavoidable), I actually did not have a problem with going in and taking out Saddam. But, once that idiot was overthrown, we needed to pull out. I mean we beat them in less then a month with minnimal loss of American life. The occupation has cost us 1000 many of which after Commander Dum$hit landed on the aircraft carrier and declared victory. My point is get out of there and if we need to intervene again do quickly and get it out again with out this ridiculous investment in occupation which is a waste of American life and resources.

yeah, right, pull out and turn the keys to iraq and its oil over to who/what? you might as well have signed the thing over to al-qaeda right then if you pulled out then. we're still fighting al-qaeda and al-qaeda is pushing the secular violence.

now, your message is full of empty name-calling, betraying an emptiness of thought; your opposition is clearly just more bush derangement syndrome, that's all. you know, a pill would help that I think! but as to making it up...according to you...yet no specifics...just noise. nothing in my post was even hyperbole...ooops, you're so emptyheaded you probably better go to the big book and look it up...under "h."

bullmoose06 8 years, 1 month ago

It is a best pratice to have a one stop shop type of operation after a disaster and most likely it wasn't the Governor's idea but most likely someone at either Kansas Emergency Management or FEMA.

As to rebuilding the homes and business the vast majority of it will come from the insurance companies. The portion not covered by insurance will be covered by loans from the Small Business Administration. A lot of private organizations will provide additional assistance as time goes by. For example the Southern Baptist Mens will provide meals, The Salvation Army and American Red Cross will manage the sheltering, the Seven Day Adventist will manage the distribution of donated items and many other organizations will join in to provide assistance.

If you feel the need to assist in the recovery efforts please contact your local volunteer organization or make a cash donation to support recovery operations, most likely there is an account established for you to make a donation. Donation of old or worn out clothing or appliances is a warm gesture, but simply a lot of stuff that is given just simple can not be used and must be discarded.

trinity 8 years, 1 month ago

agnostick thank you so much for your posting! {{hug}} for being there helping out...if i weren't in recuperation i believe i'd be there helping pick up, too.

bullmoose06 8 years, 1 month ago

The FEMA worker most likely wasn't used to a rural community where people are used to uncontrolled intersections.

Watch where the clothing and other seperated stuff ends up it will suprise you. The stuff that is beyond repair end up in a landfill. The Donations management is often call the second disaster.

Everyone should be encouraged to work a disaster it is an eye opening experence.

Frank Smith 8 years, 1 month ago

bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says: p.s. was not an illegal invasion. congress passed authorization of use of force, including votes by Kerry and Hillary.

SEC. 2. SUPPORT FOR UNITED STATES DIPLOMATIC EFFORTS The Congress of the United States supports the efforts by the President to-- (a) strictly enforce through the United Nations Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions applicable to Iraq and encourages him in those efforts; and (b) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions.


 Okay.  What part of those two lines don't you understand?
 The invasion was illegal because the resolution did not give the U.S. the authority to unilaterally invade a soverign county without U.N. permission.  It didn't have it.  No single country has the authority to invade another, nor do they if they are able to blackmail others into joining such an illegal venture. No country has the authority to enforce the U.N. charter.  Bush's foremost "ally" was his partner in Crime, Tony Blair, who announced yesterday he was quitting, in disgrace, of course.   Please recall the Downing St. Memo:   "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Gnome then cites "facts" justifying the invasion: saddam was funding terrorists; Nope. Zero proof he had done any such thing in years. harboring terrorists; Zero proof paying off the families of homicide bombers; May be proof. I haven't researched it. training terrorists in specific skills; Nope. maintaining contacts with alqaeda (that would come from GeorgeT the clinton-appointed CIA chief); and GeorgeT said "we believed he (Saddam) had weapons of mass distruction." good case:stop repeating the empty lies. Bad case. You're the one repeating the lies. There were zero contacts with al Qaida and I sure as hell was pretty sure about that and was aghast when Powell claimed that before the Security Council. There is no evidence that they "believed" Saddam had WMDs. In fact, they knowingly picked through bad intelligence trying to justify the illegal invasion.

A good reference: Condi on Stephanopoulis this week: http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Rice_backs_away_Iraq_imminent_threat_0429.html

He calls her on the "mushroom cloud" lie, and she pleads forgetfulness. It's a damn epidemic in the White House. I think Karl Rove has used one of those Men In Black, Tommy Lee Jones "flashy stick memory eraser thingys" on her, Libby and Gonzales.

bearded_gnome 8 years, 1 month ago

Aggie, I'm not interested in comparing battle scars...since you brought it up, I have worked more than one disaster, served as a volunteer for many years, and aided nonprofits in nonemergency activities...so, shove your self-rightiousness...glad you're helping.

there was not one bit of back peddling in the 3;23 post. try reading it again. once again you are showing yourself in too great a hurry to slam and slander instead of actually interacting on here.


KPK you're quite wrong on every point. ever heard of abu nedal (sp?) he only was a major palestian liberation organization terrorist in the 70's and 80's, aided in the highjacking of the cruiseship etc., he was sheltered by saddam. the money trail was good that I cited. and I gave you a direct quote from GeorgeT..."we believed he (Saddam) had weapons of mass distruction) direct quote. now, you're making up your own reality in your bush derangement syndrome. bye-bye.

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