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Archive for Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Trial ordered for rural Valley Falls man accused of shooting neighboring landowner

February 28, 2012

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A Jefferson County judge has ordered a trial for a 62-year-old rural Valley Falls man accused of shooting another man during a dispute in December.

Originally, John Hayworth Jr. was charged with attempted second-degree murder in the shooting of William Schoonover, 58, also of rural Valley Falls.

During a preliminary hearing Monday for John Hayworth Jr., Jefferson County Attorney Jason Belveal asked that he stand trial on an attempted first-degree murder charge because he alleges that the shooting was premeditated.

Prosecutors allege that the men, who own adjoining land about 40 miles northwest of Lawrence, had an ongoing dispute that became heated by a disagreement over cattle getting through a fence. Hayworth is accused of shooting Schoonover with a handgun on Dec. 4. Schoonover was taken to a Topeka hospital, but authorities have said he was recovering from his injuries.

Belveal said prosecutors have charged Hayworth’s wife, Bernadine Hayworth, with aggravated battery and obstructing the investigation. The Hayworths will be arraigned March 22.

Comments

loudmouthrealist 1 year, 2 months ago

I am curious if one can find out if an individual (such as the shooter above) is a CC permit holder? Anyone know?

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superswagg56 1 year, 2 months ago

What possible difference does it make? It happened on a farm out in the country!!

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loudmouthrealist 1 year, 2 months ago

1st) It does not matter where this particular shooting happened (farm/country or house/city). I am curious if it is possible to find out if a person, crime or no crime, is a CC permit holder?

2nd) Because this shooting was carried out with a handgun (and not a rifle) it does make a difference if this individual was licensed to carry concealed and lost his head and drew the weapon or if he was not licensed and had the gun in his home.

3rd) If it is not possible to find out if a CC permit holder uses a handgun to commit a crime or if a CC permit holder caused a accidental shooting, then no one can claim that CC is a good thing because you are only hearing about the instances where CC worked and not the tragedy's that it caused.

And to set the record straight. I am not anti gun. I hunt and I sometimes shoot .22 for fun (cant afford anything bigger to play with), but I am not a fan of CC.

CC permit does not mandate enough training (initial and continued) to assure the holder is qualified to determine when to pull and when not to.

CC permit does not require high enough standards with proficiency and accuracy ( I have 2 family members who are CC permit holders and one has demonstrated to us on a number of occasions that he can not hit a 4' X 7' stationary target at 25 to 30 yards).

CC permit will never be able to reasonable assure that the permit holder will not go nuts or just have a really bad day and have easy/immediate access (with out a possible cooling off period) to a weapon. How often after a murder do you hear "I would have never thought that of him/her. Nicest/quietest neighbor I ever had.

Did not mean for this to turn into a rant. I better walk away from the keyboard before I lose myself. Good thing Key boards don't shoot people.

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loudmouthrealist 1 year, 2 months ago

Did not mean my previous post to become so long winded but let me restate my question.

Does anyone know of a site for statistics on crimes prevented or crimes committed or accidents involving CC permit holders. Or a site to find out if someone charged with a crime is a CC permit holder?

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Hedge 1 year, 2 months ago

1st) Law enforcement is not allowed, by law, to identify CC holders.

2nd) CC permit is not required to own a handgun. CC is permitted without any license if on your own property or place of business.

3rd) True. So any attempt to show the good or the bad is impossible using available statistical data.

4th) I believe that most people know when their lives are being threatened.

5th) Self defense shootings almost always occur inside of 10 yards. Largest percentage is 3 to 5 yards. A 30 yard shot is not self defense. Point is moot.

6th) Same could be argued for someone using a car to run someone over. Should we outlaw cars? There is no statistical data to show that CC holders have any higher incidence rates for mental illness. This argument is perhaps the weakest one of all.

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Jstanobservation 1 year, 2 months ago

I believe in an earlier news release it stated that he did have a permit,but that really does not change the situation.

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superswagg56 1 year, 2 months ago

Another trial that is a farce, a charade and makes a joke of the criminal justice system. In JEFFERSON COUNTY with a case like this the defendant might as well plead guilty and save everyone the time and money of a trial. This man will be found guilty regardless of evidence or lack thereof. A completely inept, incompetent attorney could get a conviction. I've lived in JEFFERSON COUNTY for 55 years trust me on this one. I would bet anyone the amount of the national debt that he will be found GUILTY!! I'm not saying that he isn't guilty I'm saying the chance of him having an rational, impartial trial is between zero and none!

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loudmouthrealist 1 year, 2 months ago

Reg. superswagg56

1st) It does not matter where this particular shooting happened (farm/country or house/city). I am curious if it is possible to find out if a person, crime or no crime, is a CC permit holder?

2nd) Because this shooting was carried out with a handgun (and not a rifle) it does make a difference if this individual was licensed to carry concealed and lost his head and drew the weapon or if he was not licensed and had the gun in his home.

3rd) If it is not possible to find out if a CC permit holder uses a handgun to commit a crime or if a CC permit holder caused a accidental shooting, then no one can claim that CC is a good thing because you are only hearing about the instances where CC worked and not the tragedy's that it caused.

And to set the record straight. I am not anti gun. I hunt and I sometimes shoot .22 for fun (cant afford anything bigger to play with), but I am not a fan of CC.

CC permit does not mandate enough training (initial and continued) to assure the holder is qualified to determine when to pull and when not to.

CC permit does not require high enough standards with proficiency and accuracy ( I have 2 family members who are CC permit holders and one has demonstrated to us on a number of occasions that he can not hit a 4' X 7' stationary target at 25 to 30 yards).

CC permit will never be able to reasonable assure that the permit holder will not go nuts or just have a really bad day and have easy/immediate access (with out a possible cooling off period) to a weapon. How often after a murder do you hear "I would have never thought that of him/her. Nicest/quietest neighbor I ever had.

Did not mean for this to turn into a rant. I better walk away from the keyboard before I lose myself. Good thing Key boards don't shoot

0

Hedge 1 year, 2 months ago

1st) Law enforcement is not allowed, by law, to identify CC holders.

2nd) CC permit is not required to own a handgun. CC is permitted without any license if on your own property or place of business.

3rd) True. So any attempt to show the good or the bad is impossible using available statistical data.

4th) I believe that most people know when their lives are being threatened.

5th) Self defense shootings almost always occur inside of 10 yards. Largest percentage is 3 to 5 yards. A 30 yard shot is not self defense. Point is moot.

6th) Same could be argued for someone using a car to run someone over. Should we outlaw cars? There is no statistical data to show that CC holders have any higher incidence rates for mental illness. This argument is perhaps the weakest one of all.

0

loudmouthrealist 1 year, 2 months ago

Did not mean my previous post to become so long winded but let me restate my question.

Does anyone know of a site for statistics on crimes prevented or crimes committed or accidents involving CC permit holders. Or a site to find out if someone charged with a crime is a CC permit holder?

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paladin 1 year, 2 months ago

The accused was licensed and has been since licensing began. He is also a federally licensed dealer. I don't think that says anything about anything, its just a statement of fact.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 1 year, 2 months ago

It says that he really likes his guns. But that doesn't mean that everyone who likes guns will attempt to murder his neighbor.

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