Archive for Friday, June 24, 2011

KCK abortion clinic denied state license

June 24, 2011, 2:47 p.m. Updated June 24, 2011, 11:58 p.m.

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— One of three abortion providers in Kansas appeared likely to close after being denied a state license to continue terminating pregnancies at its Kansas City-area clinic, and abortion rights supporters feared Friday that the anti-abortion governor’s administration will reject licenses for the other two.

The state enacted a law earlier this year establishing a special licensing process for abortion providers, and they must either get licenses or stop offering the procedure on July 1. Backers of the law argue it protects patients from substandard care, but critics believe the real goal is to make Kansas the first state without an abortion clinic.

A lawyer for the Aid for Women clinic in Kansas City, Kan., said Friday that it received a notice that its application for a license had been denied by the Kansas Department of Health and Environment without an inspection. Attorney Cheryl Pilate said the clinic was looking at its legal options but would have to close, at least temporarily.

The clinic received its notice on the same day the leader of a regional Planned Parenthood chapter said inspectors who spent two days at its Overland Park clinic found it will comply with all new regulations. An inspection of the third provider is scheduled for Wednesday. All three are in the Kansas City area.

“We’re doomed,” said Dr. Herbert Hodes, who performs abortions for the third provider, the Women’s Health Center, also in Overland Park.

But Peter Brownlie, president and chief executive officer of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, said if the health department bases its decision on the 20-hour inspection of the group’s clinic, it should get a license.

“The findings of the inspection indicate we will be in full compliance with the abortion facility license regulations when they go into effect on July 1,” Brownlie said.

Health department spokeswoman Miranda Myrick declined to comment because the licensing process for all three abortion providers is ongoing. But she said the providers can’t offer abortions until they obtain licenses — meaning the procedures would be illegal if a licensing decision still is pending July 1.

Abortion rights advocates are suspicious of the licensing process because Republican Gov. Sam Brownback strongly opposes abortion and anti-abortion groups pushed the law through the GOP-controlled Legislature.

“I find that incredibly un-American, that we would tell women that just because of where they live in the United States of America, that they are not entitled to legal health care,” said Julie Burkhart, founder of the abortion rights political action committee Trust Women. “It’s quite shocking.”

But Mary Kay Culp, executive director of Kansans for Life, said the providers are merely being required to make good on their long-stated promises that legal abortion is safe. She said their complaints amounted to “screaming like long-tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs.”

Told of the decision on the Aid for Women clinic she said, “This is good.”

The health department already regulates hospitals and ambulatory surgical centers, which include the Planned Parenthood clinic. The two other abortion providers are among dozens of clinics and offices that fall under rules set by the state Board of Healing Arts, which licenses physicians.

The new law requires a separate, annual license for any hospital, clinic or office that performs at least five non-emergency abortions a month, and it requires state inspections, including at least one unannounced visit each year. The health department can fine providers and go to court to revoke their licenses.

Brownback signed the law on May 16, and 10 days later the department notified the three providers that new regulations were coming. This week, the providers received the latest copies of the regulations, which list drugs and equipment they must have on hand and set standards for the sizes of rooms and the number of bathrooms and janitor’s closets.

Pilate said the health department told Aid for Women its application was denied because it had disclosed that it would need extensive renovations.

Also, she said, the clinic reported the physician who performs abortions is in the process of seeking privileges at an area hospital. The new law requires that a physician have privileges at a hospital within 30 miles.

The department’s notice said that for those reasons, “an on-site inspection will not be necessary and will not be scheduled.”

Pilate said the clinic couldn’t have even obtained remodeling plans or a building permit for renovations by July 1. She called the licensing process “rushed and absurdly unrealistic.”

Hodes has promised that his office will remain open even without an abortion license, because it also provides other gynecology services, treatments for infertility and prenatal care. Planned Parenthood officials have said their clinic still could provide family planning services.

But Pilate said Aid for Women’s non-abortion services are “ancillary,” and the lack of an abortion license will probably force it to close.

“There are patients with scheduled appointments with few or no other options,” Pilate said. “It’s going to hurt poor women.”

Culp said she and fellow abortion opponents didn’t think the Aid for Women clinic could obtain a license because it would need extensive renovations. She said the Planned Parenthood clinic is the most likely to obtain a license because it’s already regulated as a surgical center.

“We don’t have any reason that they in particular wouldn’t, except that they fought us for so long,” she said, referring to past legislative debates over imposing specific rules for abortion providers.

Comments

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

No comments from the gloom and doom prognosticators of the left? This law was never designed to stop abortion it was always designed to keep the facilities safe and keep the sanitation proper! Rats in the hallway and blood on the steps in not good.

somebodynew 3 years, 9 months ago

Let us just wait until we hear from KDHE and if the license is issued.

mcmandy 3 years, 9 months ago

"Rats in the hallway and blood on the steps is not good". Well, duh. There were already regulations in place for keeping facilities safe and properly sanitized.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 9 months ago

that is malarkey and you know it.

The law was not even written by medical professionals, just legislatures and it is an extra level of scrutiny that only applies to abortion clinics and no other health care facility.

You continue to offer false witness which means you continue to defy God in all his glory and will suffer eternal consequences come rapture.

Joseph Jarvis 3 years, 9 months ago

@kansanjayhawk: Could you provide a link on the unsafe facilities you mentioned? I'm interested in learning more.

ksjayhawk74 3 years, 9 months ago

This law was specifically designed to have way to shut down abortion clinics. The law was passed only a month ago and they have already shut down one clinic, that wasn't even inspected...

"The department said the providers can't perform abortions as of July 1 if a decision on their licenses is pending. It previously told the providers decisions on their licenses would be made by then.

But asked whether the health department can make all of the licensing decisions by July 1, spokeswoman Miranda Myrick said, "We don't know.""

dadt 3 years, 9 months ago

hahahahahahahahahaha! Says the sanctimonious kansanjayhawk. You're only interested in safe abortions. hahahahahahahahahahaha!

whats_going_on 3 years, 9 months ago

The only funny thing here is your lame attempt at making people think you're actually laughing.

jonas_opines 3 years, 9 months ago

Do believe the article says that the license was denied without inspection.

It helps to read the information provided.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 9 months ago

Looks like they're gonna have to change the regulations again.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 9 months ago

3 inspectors, 20 hours over 2 days. That, by the way, is 60 hours of work on a single facility.

It's a shame KDHE doesn't pay the same level of attention to child care facilities.

How many facilities in this state does KDHE inspect with 60 manhours? What about the Dept. of Agriculture, do they inspect any of our food for that much?

Makes it pretty clear what the "top priority" of this administration is. It certainly isn't jobs or the economy.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I guess we should just let the "filth" continue...unregulated...these laws will protect women from the back alley that still exists...

Kirk Larson 3 years, 9 months ago

No, this law will send women to the back alley when they have no other option.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 9 months ago

http://cjonline.com/news/2011-04-25/kdhe-shuts-down-emporia-day-care

A single inspector, who only visited because the police had been in the home over the weekend and found drugs in the basement.

Official KDHE policy -- drugs in a childhood basement can wait, we have abortion clinics to inspect.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 9 months ago

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2011/may/02/day-care-safety/

This is a daycare that KDHE had already issued a warning about. As the Emporia Gazette rightly asked, had KDHE ever been back?

Or were they too busy hiring folks to inspect abortion clinics?

tomatogrower 3 years, 9 months ago

Their only concern is getting the babies born. After that they could care less.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

pretty judgmental don't you think...painting with a wide brush...i don't think you are right.

Corey Williams 3 years, 9 months ago

Then explain why they consistently cut funding to programs that would help children who are poor or those with physical or mental disabilities?

rbwaa 3 years, 9 months ago

One week left to obtain licenses and one inspection hasn't even been scheduled. The other one is set for two days before the deadline. It doesn't appear either one of them will be licensed before July 1. Planned Parenthood's license may be left 'pending' past that date as well. Maybe KDHE will have to refine/rewrite the regulations again also.

rbwaa 3 years, 9 months ago

One down, two to go. And you thought the only purpose of these special licenses was to protect women...

oldvet 3 years, 9 months ago

Well, maybe not quite...

Kansas: Under "Alexa's Law," signed into law on May 9, 2007, as part of HB 2062, effective July 1, 2007, an "unborn child," meaning "a living individual organism of the species homo sapiens, in utero, at any stage of gestation from fertilization to birth," is defined as a "person" and a "human being" for the purposes of the Kansas statutes against first degree murder, second degree murder, capital murder, voluntary manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, vehicular homicide, and numerous battery offenses.

jhawkinsf 3 years, 9 months ago

If it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, then it's a duck. A fetus at one day before delivery is a human being. A fetus at two days before delivery is a human being.
At one day after conception it is not a human being. At two days after conception it is not a human being. The question for the ages is when does it become a human being? I have no idea. But if a woman wants to have an abortion very early, I have no problem with that. And if we as a society choose to prevent a very late term abortion, I have no problem with that either.
Perhaps in the future we will be able to say for sure when humanity begins and what happens to us all when we are gone. I admit I'm not smart enough to know the answers to those questions.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

Actually, you won't. Bald Eagles are no longer a protected species.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

you are not correct...there is such a thing as an unborn baby. Wake up and read your biology book and learn about the sperm and the egg coming together to form a complete new human being. The little one or "fetus" develops in it's mothers womb and with nutrition and water will develop into a new human baby--i.e. person.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

Considering that well over two thirds of fertilized ova never even make it to implantation I guess that makes God the biggest abortionist in the world.

gkerr 3 years, 9 months ago

Nonracist,

Have you ever talked to a pregnant mother? She talks about her baby not her fetus or her embryo. My babies a girl she says when asked do you know what you are having? My babies heartbeat is 142 she says when returning from the Ob's office. This baby kicks a lot more than the first one she might say- here feel he's kicking now. I lost the baby last month she might say if she described a miscarriage.

No mothers carry babies and everybody knows they carry babies. We instinctively use the right term.
Gkerr

Gedanken 3 years, 9 months ago

It is an interesting thought you have presented, but you have failed to account for the socially programming we do on our children. It isn't socially acceptable to talk in any other way. Take for instance your miscarriage example - unless the baby has passed significant time in the womb - you won't see a funeral for that child. Heck - many women miscarriage and don't even know it! If the situation is like you describe - we would see many more funerals!

We substitute many terms for others in our speech because it is easier then to address those terms directly.

LoveThsLife 3 years, 9 months ago

That is more of a western thought. In Japan they actually have a period of mourning for the unborn. They dress statues up like babies..it's kind of interesting.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Does not change the fact that it is a develping human person in the womb. A little human. Not just a piece of trash to be disposed of as we please like some liberals contend.

beatrice 3 years, 9 months ago

Good point -- "she says."

Note that it is not "he" says. Until "he" can talk about the fetus/child/baby/future tax payer "he" is carrying, then "he" has no say in the matter. It is "her" right to choose what to do with "her" body. Thanks for making that distinction.

blogme 3 years, 9 months ago

Hey beatrice, you didn't mention "skygods" in your response. Just thought I'd remind you.

notanota 3 years, 9 months ago

The rich women will just go to another state to have their legal medical procedure. The poor women will either put themselves at risk or cost us taxpayers more when they resentfully raise children they knew they couldn't afford. Plus the crime rate will go up. Thanks, Brownie. Heckuvajob.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

So tell me, do you also violate her personal space and put your hand on her stomach? A "man" wouldn't carry a fetus OR a baby. So tell me, Mr. Insensitive, do you ask this question often? What if it's a girl giving her baby up for adoption? What if she is pregnant with a deformed infant that will die at birth? Do you even care your question could be hurtful? Most women who are far enough long to be showing are pregnant because they want to be. Of course they are going to call it a "baby."

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I guess if the child inutero has develpmental problems or special needs then you believe it should be dismembered and have its skull crushed in the womb. I guess this is your warped version of "choice" I reject it and call on all of the human family to be protected as a special creation of God. The Christian worldview protects human life in the womb and rejects the violence that is abortion.

notanota 3 years, 9 months ago

The Christian worldview - as you see it. Most women who get abortions in this country are Christians. But it is awfully nice for you to judge them for their choices. I think I read something about judging in Matthew somewhere....

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

Hike your drawers. Your ignorance is showing.

Corey Williams 3 years, 9 months ago

That is still a personal belief and opinion, not fact.

bluehorse22 3 years, 9 months ago

No, it is not a fact that abortion is murder! Just as mancityfoot said, it is soley an opinoin. You have no right to make decisions for another woman and HER body. That is a fact, and that is what this entire issue is about. You have every right to make your own choice about what YOU would choose to do if and when YOU become pregnant, but if your OPINIONS/beliefs (religious or not) then start dictating what another person is allowed to do, or not to do, with their own decision/body, then you have crossed the line. It really is that simple! You have no right to tell me, or anyone else what I can, or can not, choose to do. That, my dear, is a fact!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I guess need to get the video "silent scream" or "Eclipse of Reason" and view an abortion yourself and you will know that is a fact and not merely and opinion.

Corey Williams 3 years, 9 months ago

Nope. It could easily be reasoned that, until birth, it is nothing more than a parasite feeding off of the mother. Where else does it get it's sustenance?

parasite: an organism that lives on or in an organism of another species, known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.

Is that crass? Yes, of course. But that is an opinion, just like yours.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

And view doctored, edited, biased video? I've had the opportunity to see the real thing as it took place and believe me, it's nothing like the propaganda you've exposed yourself to and swallowed whole cloth. It would be nice if you could do the same but that would clash too much with your worldview. You'd stand there with your eyes squeezed shut and your fingers in your ears singing "lalalala" the whole time.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

How can you say that when you have not even watched the videos? They are not doctored it is hard to doctor the truth of death and destruction when you actually witness an abortion taking place. I think you fear the truth of what you might witness and realize that you are wrong in advocating it.

KUGreenMachine 3 years, 9 months ago

Actually, if you look at pictures of the "fetus" inside the uterus, you're carrying an alien until about 12 weeks....

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Well I guess you could say that about every develping human being but the fact is that it is still a small little human person developing in the safety of his mother's womb.

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

Ive got a horrifying video of root canal...i think dentists are MONSTERS!

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

And medieval physicians thought fetuses were homunculi. Maybe we should build you a time machine.

notanota 3 years, 9 months ago

Speak for yourself. Some people carry shrimps, blobs, or blurry things with arrows to point out what isn't the wall of the womb in the sono photo.

Steve Jacob 3 years, 9 months ago

I hope they regulate hospitals this much. Could small town hospitals pass this kind of tough inspection? Would the state shut them down?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

They are already regulated like this--only the abortionists were left out--that is why the regs. were passed. Remember these were passed to Sebelius prior to Brownback after the filth at the KCK clinic! She vetoed the clinic regulations and now that we have a pro-life governor he did as he said during the campaign and signed them. There are no surprises here!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I don't think government should aid in the abortion process. In fact, government should discourage abortion by trying to make them like Bill Clinton used to say "safe" and "rare" ! Those of us who are pro-life believe that abortion is a brutal violation of the human rights of the unborn and that these "choices" are actually wrong and should be once again against the law!

Celeste Plitz 3 years, 9 months ago

Nice. The war on Women continues. It's nobody's business but the woman in question what she does with a pregnancy. So sick of these laws being passed that are based on religious beliefs. What happened to separation of church and state?!? My great grandmother wouldn't have died at age 34 if she'd had the option to get an abortion safely. No, instead, she was forced to go the back alley route because there was nothing else available. So she bled to death. Leaving five kids and a husband who couldn't afford to feed them all. (which is why she was getting an abortion) And this is better how? These holier-than-thou lawmakers think they know better than a woman what she should do with her body. Well they can just suck it. Nobody knows better than the woman herself what is best for her. It's NOBODY'S business. Keeping a pregnancy or not, should be between a woman and her doctor. Period.

bluehorse22 3 years, 9 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

rtwngr 3 years, 9 months ago

Do you think women don't die from "safe" abortions now? It wasn't the laws that killed your grandmother it was the abortionist. What if your parent were the one that was aborted? Where would that leave you?

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

i was waiting for someone to go this route...hilarious. What if George Bush never existed???? WOW. Accidentally jump off a bridge for all of us. thanks

Elaine Elliott 3 years, 9 months ago

He wouldn't have ever cared because he would have never been born. Do you remember worrying about what your parents did or didn't do before you were even born? I hate that argument.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

You don't know that Celeste women have died from "legal" abortion in filthy clinics just like your great grandmother. Abortion is not safe and it should not be legal to kill a baby in the womb! We need to help women who are in situations where they feel desparate! Many Christian organizations and pregancy care centers have been established to meet those needs. We will never back down on defending the lives of these little ones but pro-life citizens understand the pain some women face! Killing a baby never makes it better!

blogme 3 years, 9 months ago

And if abortions were as easy to get as they are now, she could have aborted all of them, and you wouldn't be here now would you Celeste? I'd say makes ya think, but in this case, I doubt it, as I'm sure the causal effect of having sex escapes you as well.

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

PSH HAHHAHAHAHAH....these two are hilarious!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Yes--the war on the unborn women continues--at these clinics!

frankfussman 3 years, 9 months ago

Here's what George Carlin has to say... George Carlin - Pro Life, Abortion and The Sanctity Of Life www.youtube.com George Carlin speaks about the "Sanctity" of life. This is part of the "George Carlin - Back in Town".

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Is that the best you can do to buttress your argument? -- George Carlin????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????--really?

mcmandy 3 years, 9 months ago

Easily my favorite George Carlin bit :)

Corey Williams 3 years, 9 months ago

"...the regulations, which list drugs and equipment they must have on hand and set standards for the sizes of rooms and the number of bathrooms and janitor’s closets."

Corey Williams 3 years, 9 months ago

"Pilate said the health department told Aid for Women its application was denied because it had disclosed that it would need extensive renovations." "Pilate said the clinic couldn’t have even obtained remodeling plans or a building permit for renovations by July 1. She called the licensing process “rushed and absurdly unrealistic.”"

coloradoan 3 years, 9 months ago

The definition of "arbitrary and capricious".

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

you have to live up to the health care standards of care that have been established or you don't keep operating. Period.

gkerr 3 years, 9 months ago

Note That the clinic currently inspected as a surgical center is expected to pass inspection. Did not the Overland Park Clinic which had been classified as a surgery center and thus passed rigorous surgical center inspection regs not already pass the inspection? I think it has.

Second, the clinic that is closing looked at the regs said no way we can comply and is folding it's tent. It needed extensive renovation to comply and knew it needed renovation. If it had been inspected as a surgical center all along which it really is, a surgery center, it would easily pass the inspection as it would have been in compliance with tough regulations already. Gkerr

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 9 months ago

Yes, I know the first thing I look for at the dermatologist is a large enough janitor's closet. You too, eh?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Every doctor and clinic have rules like that they must comply with. Abortion Mills should not be exempted and that is what this law is about! Making the clinics live up to the medical standards that exist today--thought you wanted it "safe"?

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

If only kansanjayhawk's so called 'mother' would of had access to a Planned Parenthood. WE WOULDN'T BE READING HIS DRIBBLE.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I guess you want me dead for my pro-life beliefs? I guess you call yourself pro-choice?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 9 months ago

If the measures here are really necessary to safely run a medical/surgical clinic, then why do they apply only to those that perform abortions?

The answer is simple-- this is just a blatant bureaucratic means of outlawing abortion.

gkerr 3 years, 9 months ago

Bozo,

Listen to yourself. Think. Abortion is a surgical proceedure. It's not a zit clinic. A baby in a pregnant uterus is a dicy surgical situation to pit out or scrape out. There can be infection or hemorrhage or uterine rupture. Care and caution is required.
Gkerr

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 9 months ago

WTF are you rambling on about now? No one denies that there ought to be high standards for such clinics.

Do you care to answer my question?

"If the measures here are really necessary to safely run a medical/surgical clinic, then why do they apply only to those that perform abortions?"

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

There have been abuses at clinics across the U.S. including the one in KCK a few years ago and that is why an enhanced regulatory scheme was proposed. This has been in the works for several legislative sessions and these clinics could and should have been preparing over that time.

Bob_Keeshan 3 years, 9 months ago

Surgical procedures occur at dermatology clinics everyday. They also occur at a variety of other specialists, such as the urologist. And those people need bigger waiting rooms or they should be shut down.

deec 3 years, 9 months ago

My D&C after my god-given abortion was done at my doctor's office, the same doc who caught my 4 kids when they got born and became people.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

I guess that's why the FDA allows women who go the chemical route and take RU-486 to go home and abort there. Oh and by the way, "infections" take at least 24-48 hours to show up. As for it being a "dicey surgical situation", I really think you need to take a look at mortality and morbidity statistics for the last ten years. The truth is, having an abortion is safer than getting your teeth cleaned in a dentist's office. Does that mean we need to make dentists adhere to hospital level standards and only allow them to practice in surgical centers? The real truth is, abortion is one of the safest medical procedures a person can undergo in the US but you can't afford to admit that. To do so would take away your excuse for supporting discriminatory laws designed, not to safeguard women, but to limit, restrict, harass and shut down women's clinics that provide abortion services. But as long as you can say , "Oh the horror!!!", you can break your arm patting yourself on the back about your faux "concern for women".

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Remember that prior to Roe all states prohibited abortion as a criminal act or heavily regulated the practice in a few states that had voted for legalization. It was a State by State issue. Certainly those who oppose abortion view it as a matter of protecting the unborn human being and not as being a part of the "nanny state"! Neither did the earlier prohibitions on abortion by the states indicate that they were being theocratic in anyway.

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

OMG! You really don't know the history of abortion, do you? Prior to Roe V. Wade abortion legality was decided on a state by state basis because it was considered a states rights issue. And all states didn't "prohibit abortion". Guess who one of the states was that legalized and permitted it? KANSAS! Legalization of abortion in this state went into effect on July 1, 1970, a full two and a half years prior to Roe V. Wade!

Kate Rogge 3 years, 9 months ago

"Culp said ... the Planned Parenthood clinic is the most likely to obtain a license because it’s already regulated as a surgical center. “We don’t have any reason that they in particular wouldn’t, except that they fought us for so long,” she said, referring to past legislative debates over imposing specific rules for abortion providers."

Help me with this, please. Planned Parenthood's license may be at risk because "they fought us for so long"?

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

Very transparent statement isn't it? I think it is great! That statement alone could make a judge sit up and pay attention.

RCgal 3 years, 9 months ago

I call BS. This administration, along with most on the zelous right, are trying to push their religious morals and beliefs on everybody else. You think someone who gets an abortion is committing a sin hey guess what...only god can judge. A women or girl who is raped or molested should not have to carry that baby to term! She's been through enough! Plus how many of these pro-life people are adopting all these unwanted kids? Pro-choice advocates are not against life they are FOR being able to make the right decision for themselves and their own bodies. And I have NEVER read an article about a local clinic with ratsnand blood. Maybe this statement wasn't mention to be fact much like that one senator that said "97% of what planned parenthood does is abortions". Wouldnt be the first time the far right would rather deal in lies that suit them as opposed to facts!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

A rape is a terrible thing...it is an act of violence...but we know that another act of violence an abortion--the dismemberment and destruction of an unborn baby in the womb--will not make the rape go away and it will not make the woman "better" or have less suffering from the rape! In fact, more violence will make the situation much worse because now another human being has been destroyed!

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

UM, ARE YOU TOTALLY OUT OF YOUR MIND!. And having the child of your rapist WILL make things better. You are a piece of work.....accent on the 'piece'...the color-brown

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

How will another act of violence--the act of killing a child in the womb--make a rape better or the feelings go away? No it will just add another layer of terrible regrets as the woman must then live with the fact that she has allowed an abortionist to destroy her baby!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I call one nature taking it's course and the other I call man--playing god--and destroying a life that might have been...

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

Considering that I have up close and personal experience with having an abortion due to rape, I'm seriously amazed that you seem to think that you know how I feel. You are about as far off base as one person can get. If anything, my experience convinced me to be as pro choice as I am just so I can fight fools like you and protect the women facing that decision from forced birthing.

Sigmund 3 years, 9 months ago

Here are the other clinics and activities regulated by the the State of Kansas under Chapter 65: Article 1: Secretary Of Health And Environment, Activities Article 2: Local Boards Of Health; Clinics Article 2a: Regional Health Programs Article 3: Control Of Contagious Diseases In Cities Of The Second And Third Class Article 4: Hospitals And Other Facilities Article 5: Maternity Centers And Child Care Facilities Article 5a: Children With Special Health Care Needs Article 6: Food, Drugs And Cosmetics Article 6a: Meat And Poultry Article 6b: Amygdalin (Laetrile) Article 7: Milk, Cream And Dairy Products Article 8: Bedding, Manufacture And Sale Article 9: Use Of Dead Bodies By Medical School Article 10: Examination And Registration Of Doctors Of Medicine Or Surgery Article 11: Regulation Of Nursing Article 12: Examination And Registration Of Osteopathic Physicians Article 13: Examination And Registration Of Chiropractors Article 14: Regulation Of Dentists And Dental Hygienists Article 15: Regulation Of Optometrists Article 16: Regulation Of Pharmacists Article 17: Regulation Of Embalmers And Funeral Directors; Funeral Establishments Article 18: Examination, Registration And Regulation Of Barbers Article 19: Licensure Of Entities By State Board Of Cosmetology Article 20: Regulation Of Podiatrists Article 21: Basic Science Act Article 22: Fees Of Licensees In Military Service Article 23: Enrichment Of Flour And Bread Article 24: Uniform Vital Statistics Act Article 25: Uniform Narcotic Drug Act Article 26: Hypnotic, Somnifacient Or Stimulating Drugs Article 27: Hazardous Household Articles Article 28: Healing Arts Article 28a: Physician Assistants Article 29: Physical Therapy Article 30: Air Quality Control Article 31: Interstate Compact On Mental Health Article 32: Revised Uniform Anatomical Gift Act Article 33: Water Pollution Control Article 34: Solid And Hazardous Waste Article 34a: Central Interstate Low-Level Radioactive Waste Compact Article 35: Licensure Of Adult Care Home Administrators Article 36: Marijuana Control Article 37: Human Blood Article 38: Safety Materials Article 40: Alcoholism And Intoxication Treatment Article 41: Controlled Substances Article 42: Examination, Licensure And Regulation Of Mental Health Technicians Article 43: Emergency Medical Services Article 44: Community Mental Health And Mental Retardation Assistance Article 45: Certification Of Operators Of Water Supply Systems And Wastewater Treatment Facilities

Sigmund 3 years, 9 months ago

Here are the other clinics and activities regulated by the the State of Kansas under Chapter 65:

Article 46: Drug Abuse Treatment Facilities Article 47: Health Planning And Development Act Article 48: Health Facilities Article 49: Health Care Providers Article 50: Credentialing Article 51: Home Health Agencies Article 52: Treatment Of Drug Abusers Article 53: Asbestos Control Article 54: Occupational Therapy Article 55: Respiratory Therapy Article 56: Confidential Communications And Information Article 57: Emergency Planning And Community Right-To-Know Article 58: Professional Counselors Article 59: Dietitians Article 60: Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (Aids) And Hepatitis B; Other Infectious Disease Article 61: Emergency Medical Services Article 62: Miscellaneous Provisions Article 63: Social Workers Article 64: Marriage And Family Therapists Article 65: Speech-Language Pathologists And Audiologists Article 66: Alcohol And Other Drug Abuse Counselors Article 67: Abortion Article 67a: Fetal Organs And Tissue Article 68: Health Care Data Article 69: Athletic Trainers Article 70: Chemical Control Article 71: Assistive Device Individual Development Account Program Article 72: Naturopathic Doctors Article 73: Radiologic Technologists Article 74: Primary Care Safety Net Clinic Capital Loan Guarantees http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_65/

Why shouldn't abortion also be regulated?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 9 months ago

"Why shouldn't abortion also be regulated?"

Are you saying that they weren't regulated before?

And should abortion clinics be held to a different standard than other clinics that also perform surgical and other medical procedures?

If so, why?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

politics and big money protected these clinics! Do a little research into how much money Tiller poured into Kansas politics!

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

Oh please tell me more grand idiot, im sure Tiller was the only person in the world to donate money to a politician.

Oh no, those MEGA CHURCHES you probably attend don't donate any money do they?????? of course not

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

They donate money to protect the unborn not to promote the killings at these clinics. Dismemberment of unborn children as a method of birth control as practiced in the U.S. needs to be stopped and much of the Christian community has come to believe that we need to be more aggressive in our fight to protect the "least of these" as Jesus said.

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

Why shouldn't he bring up the money donated by Tiller for specific reasons such as this, when at every turn we hear about the money donated by the Koch brothers?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

An act which all "sane" pro-life citizens reject as against the pro-life principles. God is the author of life and those that love him want to spread that love even to those who disagree with us on the issue of abortion!

Sigmund 3 years, 9 months ago

Here are the specific regulations that the abortion clinics need to comply with. Which one is most objectionable and which should be eliminated or should abortion be completely unregulated?

65-6701: Definitions.
65-6702: Drugs or devices for birth control or fertilization lawful; political subdivisions prohibited from limiting abortion.
65-6703: Abortion prohibited when fetus viable, exceptions; determination of age of fetus; determination of viability; reports; retention of medical records; viable, defined; criminal penalties.
65-6704: Abortion upon minor; required information and counseling.
65-6705: Same; notice to certain persons required before performance of abortion; waiver of notice; court proceedings; penalties.
65-6706:
65-6707: Same; severability clause.
65-6708: Woman's-right-to-know act; citation.
65-6709: Same; abortion, informed consent required; information required to be given to women, certification of receipt; offer to view ultrasound image and hear heartbeat, certification of offer; required signage.
65-6710: Same; materials to be published and distributed by the department of health and environment; materials to be available at no cost.
65-6711: Same; information where medical emergency compels performances of an abortion.
65-6712: Same; failure to provide informed consent and printed materials under act is unprofessional conduct.
65-6713: Same; physician who complies with act not civilly liable to patient for failure to obtain informed consent to the abortion.
65-6714: Same; severability clause.
65-6715: Same; act does not create or recognize a right to abortion or make lawful an abortion that is currently unlawful.
65-6716 to 65-6720: Reserved.
65-6721: Prohibition against partial birth abortion on viable fetus, exceptions; partial birth abortion, defined; report of determination; criminal penalties.

http://kansasstatutes.lesterama.org/Chapter_65/Article_67/

Jimo 3 years, 9 months ago

"Here are the specific regulations"

Where? All you've listed are statutes. You do understand that a regulation isn't a statute, don't you?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

True enough, however, the Regs. are based upon the contents of the statutes and many times they are verbetim from the statute. Thus, you need to read the statutes!

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

No, the statutes create the basis - the agency has quite a bit of leeway when making the regs. There is also an administrative process required which has obviously been ignore in this case.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I don't believe that anything has been ignored remember they have a deadline for implementation in the law itself July 1st. I'm sure the attorneys at the KDHE have reviewed the requirements and are advising on the implementation.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 9 months ago

Some of these are rather specific to abortion. Some of them are just plain fantasy (there is no such thing a "partial birth abortion." That's a creation of the anti-abortion industry.)

But most of these could be applied to any medical facility/practitioner/procedure. Have they been? If so, why do they apply only to abortion (a legal medical procedure?)

Jimo 3 years, 9 months ago

I imagine this planet. How's the weather on your planet?

It isn't a secret that "partial birth" is a marketing term dreamed up to sell an unreality as if it were genuine.

Wingnuts do this all the time (which is why I can't keep up with the ever-evolving lingo of Wingnut-ese). Just this month, it seems they've dreamed up "job creators" as a euphemism for "billionaires." It's not likely to go solid gold like "enhanced interrogation" as a replacement for "torture" or "peacekeeper" as a replacement for "nuclear missile." But that's no problem - the nuts will just keep making up more and more linguistic assaults on reality.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Call it whatever you want--D and E abortion or late abortion these late-term killings in which the child has its skull crushed with scissors and then has its body dismembered has become known as "Partial Birth" abortion because of how horrible it is! This was not invented by the anti-abortion industry but was in fact invented by late-term abortionists very much like George Tiller. You need to do a little more research before you make such statements!

Cait McKnelly 3 years, 9 months ago

Boy, you really need some self education. Why not look up the definition of partial birth abortion? It's just too too convenient to say that it involves "dismemberment" when, in fact, it doesn't. "Partial birth abortion" was a misnomer made up by the probirth industry to vilify an actual procedure called "intact extraction"; a procedure whereby a dead fetus is delivered whole so the family has a body to grieve over. So, not only is the term "partial birth abortion" a lie, so do you.

Joe Hyde 3 years, 9 months ago

Special licensing process for abortion providers. Must get special license before July 1st (after being notified by KDHE of this requirement less than a week ago). KDHE denies the clinic's permit but its spokewoman declines public comment on the matter, saying the permit process is "ongoing". Clinic passes a 20-hour state inspection, but is denied a permit based on its plan to remodel the clinic.

The state's actions here are a textbook example of politically motivated regulatory abuse. I hope this clinic hires an attorney who at the very least will seek a federal U.S. District Court injunction against the state of Kansas. This clinic has been safely offering a medical service that is authorized for all U.S. citizens under federal law; denying the permit (closing down the clinic) by means of regulatory surprise attack violates the rights of women who've decided to avail themselves of this medical procedure.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

These clinics need to meet a min. level of cleanliness and sanitation. This is not about stopping all abortion it is about making the clinics live up to certain standards of care and there is no reason in the world why a pro-choice person should not support these laws and regs! We can fight the real fight over the issue of abortion itself on other laws but this one should be supported by everyone who wants the clinics to be 'safe'.

Olympics 3 years, 9 months ago

American Taliban...wallow in your ignorance, bigotry, and sexism. It's this kind of public/religious policy that I will not miss when I leave Kansas.

ps...I know, my leaving is a very tiny example of "good riddance" to KS Republicans. Just remember, we do have the facts on our side and your grandkids hate your social policies ("oh yeah, my parents and grandparents were on the wrong side of history.").

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Really sad that you don't want you "legal" abortions to be "safe" these clinic regs. will ensure that fewer women die.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

The law in question says nothing about any involvement from a church? So I don't think this is pushing an envelope in that direction! Remember this law has been in the works for several legislative sessions over the terms of multiple governors. These clinics should have been preparing themselves for a heightened standard of care.

Sigmund 3 years, 9 months ago

riverat (Joe Hyde) says… "Special licensing process for abortion providers. Must get special license before July 1st (after being notified by KDHE of this requirement less than a week ago). KDHE denies the clinic's permit but its spokewoman declines public comment on the matter, saying the permit process is "ongoing"."

Certainly the State of Kansas has told the clinics what is lacking in their procedures or facilities, yet the clinics have not stated specifically what the problem is. I can understand the KHDE not commenting, yet the clinics certainly can comment specifically but so far they have been vague. Further there have been no comments from any of the clinics that they can't comply with the new regulations. My guess is the any problems are minor and abortion will soon be safer, legal and rarer in Kansas.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 9 months ago

When will Republicans decide to extend similar stricter regulations to all medical clinics and hospitals? (We know how much Republicans love regulations. What are they waiting for?)

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

We don't know that Republicans love such regulations at all-- in fact--the abuses had to be shown over time--for this conservative legislature to finally act to protect women. Thank you Sam Brownback for signing the bill and not doing as Sebelius by protecting the abortionists rather than women!

ebyrdstarr 3 years, 9 months ago

From my understanding, the problems aren't minor but will require major structural remodeling of this particular clinic. Planned Parenthood already met the physical requirements, but this Wyandotte County clinic didn't and couldn't possibly have done the remodeling work by July 1st. They likely couldn't even get building permits by then. The requirements relate to specific sizes of examination rooms and even janitorial closets. I have not seen this reported, but I am wondering if there are already similar room size requirements for surgical centers, which is why the PP clinic is ok because it was already in compliance with surgical center regulations.

Jimo 3 years, 9 months ago

Why is it that Big Government Republicans never have any money except to be sued for anti-liberty agenda?

Sigmund 3 years, 9 months ago

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) replies… "But most of these could be applied to any medical facility/practitioner/procedure. Have they been? If so, why do they apply only to abortion (a legal medical procedure?)"

Specifically which regulation do you object to?

Sigmund 3 years, 9 months ago

Jimo (anonymous) replies… "Where? All you've listed are statutes. You do understand that a regulation isn't a statute, don't you?"

You have to click the link at the bottom of the comment. You do know how a URL works, don't you?

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

The link leads to statutes only, Sigmund. Jimo is correct. Interesting that the latest volume of the Kansas Register has nothing about the licensure of abortion clinics. I am certain the new regime has not followed administrative procedure and juducial review will occur.

In the meantime a woman's role in society is once again being determined by a magical, mythical voice in the heads of our political "leaders".

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Rather than the mystical voice in the mind of some liberal judge?

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

There is nothing mystical about the law.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

You need to read Roe and Bolton and see that they are getting the "right to abortion" from the shadow of the vapor of the 14th amendment! It is not something in the law it is something they (the liberal Judge) made up from thin air. This is the problem with abortion law in America it is built upon a fantasy that never really happened you need to read up on Norma McCorvey the Roe in Roe v. Wade she now admits that the facts in the case were wrong and she has changed her position to be pro-life!

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 9 months ago

The newlly elected Pope of Kansas, Brownback, has decreed that he will have his religious sharia style law enacted. His cronies in the Republican Terrorist Party have consented to this decree and are doing all they can to enact religious law in the state. This is fine with the addled voters of Kansas who really do believe there is an old white haired gentleman sitting on a cloud and passing out thunderbolts and blessings to those below. Brownback is no better that these religious zealots like Robert Shuller, Jimmy Swagart, Jerry Falwell, and their ilk who's main goal is to line their pockets with cash from the "faithful" to pay the payments on their bright, new, expensive cars and houses. Any you were afraid that the President of the United States was a muslim???But the gov is nurturing fantisies of running to replace that muslim, non-citizen, black office holder. And Kansas will pay, and pay, and pay in many more ways than one for this zealot and his election to office.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Well I guess you reject traditional family values and the respect for life? Many other states have passed laws to protect women from abortion clinics that are filthy and unsanitary Kansas is no different. I am more in fear of the secularists and social liberals who do not even have a basic understanding of why a human child should be protected in the womb. I am afraid of liberals who make up the law rather than follow what is written in the Constitution! We should all fear those who have no Christian or religious principals because it can lead us back to the fires of the gas chambers where human beings were destroyed simply because they did not measure up.

Kate Rogge 3 years, 9 months ago

Abortion is legal, and should remain both legal and accessible. You write about the justifiable need for our government to regulate sanitary conditions in abortion clinics - which most of us agree should be at a level consistent with other surgical facilities - and then immediately refer to Christianity and protecting 'a human child... in the womb' even in cases of pregnancies resulting from rape and incest. It seems to me that no abortion clinic's existence, however well-managed and maintained, will ever trump your personal beliefs that abortion is against the Constitution (?) and Christianity. Your beliefs (if I have described them correctly) are not mine. To my mind, attempting to eliminate legal abortion clinics because you do not approve of them is, in itself, a morally wrong position. Although Brownback seems intent on establishing a Christian theocracy in Kansas - as a showpiece on his way to the White House - let's try to agree that moral people in Kansas and in this county have different views about abortion and about the scope of Christianity (as used by Brownback and others) in public law.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Two issues 1. I am opposed to abortion 2. Being opposed to abortion has nothing to do with this law in particular. Pro-choice individuals such as yourself should welcome this law to protect the concept of abortion being "safe" and legal. Thus, this law has nothing really to do with abortion as a legal or moral concept just from a public health point of view.

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

If your opposition to abortion has nothing to do with the law which is what this article is about, why do you continue to discuss it?

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

I would like for you and those that believe what you do to continue expounding on your true reasons for wanting these regulations. Please do express your fear of those who have no Christian or religious principals as it applies to abortions It will increase the judiciary scrutiny as this progresses. Keep up the good work!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

You need to separate the issues. This law in specific and then the concept of abortion in general! They are two different things and should be discussed as such. This law will not stop one abortion but it will protect many women from unsanitary conditions and it will bring accountability to the process.

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

Boy, can't pull the wool over your eyes, huh? LOL

blindrabbit 3 years, 9 months ago

Personally, I have no dog in the "abortion" fight, but the dichotomy in "rights" issues in the United States could not be more apparent than in the outcome of a couple issues settled last week. The progressive states are moving to giving more "rights" to citizens whereas the more socially conservative states look to restrict rights based on various religious dogmas. The New York Legislature has voted to "allow" marriage between consenting adults regardless on sexual orientation; this is the obvious trend in the U.S., as now 6 states have similar allowances. On the other hand, Kansas with it's drifting to the more conservative guidance of the GOP, moves to be more repressive, as evidenced by the restricting abortion services to it's citizens. The position of the Kansas Legislature is clear, and by imposing trumped-up regulations is a "red herring" and is an insult.

Time will tell: The fascination (for some) for imposing "rights" restrictions by more socially conservative groups is ultimately doomed. The changing population composition in the country supports the concept that the majority demand more inclusive "rights" whereas the decaying good old boy "GOP" draws it's waning breath. Kansas seems to be willing to slide to more conservative principles, further irrelevance and increasing negative stereotypical reputations..

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

But what about the demand for "rights" of the unborn. These should have value as well and play into the cultural drift? --Abortion on demand may be one issue in which your projection is wrong.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

But what about the demand for "rights" of the unborn. These should have value as well and play into the cultural drift? --Abortion on demand may be one issue in which your projection is wrong.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 9 months ago

Blindrabbit, I fervently hope you are right. I see distinct peril in the conservative drift to homophobic and facist type right wingnut policies. Organized religion is in distinct decline in the country, except, it seems for the reactionary fundamentalist cults that seem to be bent on enforcing their restrictive and doctrinaire culture on all citizens of the republic. Mainstream church groups are having difficulties as are many in the recession, but the wackos and reactionaries seem to be like weeds, populating and growing at an alarming rate.

I truly hope you are correct in your assessment that these influances will eventually die off and pass into oblivion before some Acmanedijad (Iran president) style zealot gets elected President.

Hitler did not take over Germany. The people there gave it to him. That is something for all to ponder carefully.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I think you would have called the early pilgrims and Puritans who settled our nation "cults" as well. It reflects the drift away from Jesus Christ and his teachings in our society that some would actually attack the Church and Religion which are doing such good works.

beatrice 3 years, 9 months ago

When does a fetus stop being a fetus? At birth. When does a baby stop being a baby? 2 years old, maybe, or is it 3 years old? I'm the baby of my family and I'm ... well ... none of your business, but I'm old.

When describing the unborn, fetus is the most accurate term. Those who refuse to admit it are in denial of the precision available within the English language.

However, people are arguing that the common use of the term baby is for the unborn as well. Fair enough. It is the common usage so we should embrace it. Got it.

Now, regarding when life begins, why do we celebrate one's day of birth and not one's inception day? I mean, if we are going to go with common usage to make our decisions about how we talk about things relating to the unborn, then the birthday celebration pretty much seals the case as the celebration of life beginning at birth, correct? "Happy Birthday" we all sing, but we never blow out candles on a cake celebrating "Happy Inception Day."

So I guess I'll stop using fetus to accurately describe the unborn when others stop trying to say life begins at conception. Deal?

beatrice 3 years, 9 months ago

No, I'm arguing that the anti-choice argument about "killing babies" is false.

You do know that you ignored the point of the post, don't you?

rtwngr 3 years, 9 months ago

I'll argue semantics with you. Fetus is a stage of development. Toddler, adolescent, and adult are similar descriptions. Your post ignores the question, "At what point do we have a human?" The answer is conception.

Birth is an event that occurs during development of the human. Puberty would be another example of an event that occurs during development.

Dr. Bernard Nathanson, cofounder of NARAL, stated, "Modern technologies have convinced us that beyond question the unborn child is simply another human being, another member of the human community, indistinguishable in every way from any of us." At the time Dr. Nathanson wrote this he was an avowed atheist.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

What really matters is what "Value" you are willing to assign to the "fetus" and when are you willing to say that it should be protected by law?

jafs 3 years, 9 months ago

Did anybody else think it's odd that the license was denied without an inspection?

I thought the idea was to inspect the clinics to see if they were in compliance with new regulations.

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

No, why do an inspection when the clinic already told them they weren't in compliance on many things? I would be interested in all of the disclosures that were made to the KDHE and what the violations would have been. Was it that they didn't have certain meds? One of them is that their doctor performing abortions had no admitting privileges at an area hospital, but I don't know the others. If they would get everything in order, I don't think that there would be anything keeping them from applying for a license at a later date.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

They knew it would not pass even without an inspection because of the rules that the clinic could not live up to. No need for an inspection on other matters until the clinic gets renovated!

whats_going_on 3 years, 9 months ago

No one on one side of the spectrum is going to convince someone on the other side, so why even antagonize people, its only making all of us angrier. Knock it off.

beatrice 3 years, 9 months ago

Who's angry?

While we may not be able to get others to agree with us, I find healthy debates on a wide range of topics to be highly worthwhile, especially if done without malice toward those who hold opposing points of view. If nothing else, it helps people strengthen their own convictions and may teach a thing or two about ourselves.

voevoda 3 years, 9 months ago

It's ironic: the conservative Republican Brownback administration is against government regulation--except in intimate matters of sexuality and reproduction. There's no genuine interest in the well-being of Kansans, or the Brownback administration would demand environmental regulations at least as strict as the new requirements for abortion clinics.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

The regulations themselves show that Brownback is concerned with the well-being of Kansans. The Legislature had a huge bi-partisan majority when the law was passed and now the governor is simply implementing that law with regulations. As for environmental regulations--you need to give an example of what you are talking about--sometimes these are abused and thus must be defined.

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

What is this huge legislative bi-partisan majority you speak of?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Look up the vote totals in the legislative chambers!

Grump 3 years, 9 months ago

Let's see if the governor's counsel and chief counsel at KDHE, Caleb Stegall, is willing to man-up and be defense litigation counsel when the abortion clinics sue in federal court, or will he pass the buck.

Centerville 3 years, 9 months ago

See what a mess you get into when you've cast your lot with a leftist politician (who used you up and then left the state): you now have to be opposed to sanitary abortion clinics.

jafs 3 years, 9 months ago

Nobody's opposed to sanitary facilities.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

well it seems that some of the pro-choice people on this site won't even bend to having reasonable safety regulations put in place. As I said before even if we disagree on abortion we should be able to agree to a reasonable standard of safe medical care. Like it or not many of us believe and are convinced that there have been unsafe conditions in the past and so we have acted through our legislative representatives to change that.

jafs 3 years, 9 months ago

Untrue.

They think there are already adequate regulations, and that this is just a way to shut down clinics.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Well many of us beg to differ including the huge majorities in the Kansas House and Kansas Senate that sent this law to the governors desk! You need to do some additional research on why these legislators believed that this law was needed here in Kansas. Don't you think it could be possible that there were some actual events that led to the passage of this protective public health act?

jafs 3 years, 9 months ago

I don't have a strong position one way or the other.

I just know that liberals aren't against clean and safe conditions - they just don't think this extra regulation was needed.

And, since these clinics were already held to the same standards as other surgical/medical facilities, should those be changed as well?

If not, then why is this new stuff needed for these particular clinics?

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

For anyone who is interested, the KC star has a copy of the regulations posted on their website. I don't feel that any of the regulations are unreasonable, at least the ones written out on that pdf.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Believe me the Nanny State has been here for a long...long... time. Exempting abortion mills will not make it go away!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Many of us believe that abortion is a brutal violation of the human rights of the unborn child! Many of us do not believe that! However, we all ought to support a reasonable standard of safe and legal medical care must be performed at these clinics or there should be no license. Pro-life and pro-choice people should be together on this one because it is not really about abortion it is about safety for women. Clearly that is why a huge bi-partisan majority Democrats and Republicans joined together representing the people of Kansas and passed this clinic regulation bill into law. After the naysaying is over you will find that we have safer medical care facilities in Kansas for the abortion decision that some women are making even if some of us abhor that decision!

Satirical 3 years, 9 months ago

You might be a liberal if...you think regulation on corporations that stifles general economic growth is good (because all corporations are greedy and evil); but regulation at an abortion clinic to keep women safe is bad (because it prevents the ultimate liberal goal of easy access/drive-thru abortion clinics).

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

They were not adequately regulated that is our point!

blindrabbit 3 years, 9 months ago

Women rights lose again; under attack by a few self important religious groups led by a bunch of insecure men who are afraid of losing their grip on domination. Kansas's Pied Piper for this, is Sam Brownback; an individual who spent his time in Washington cloistered with a bunch of like sexually repressed GOP legislators in a shared apartment house on C Street. Little connection with womens issues but much opportunity to bolster their demented biases.

Satirical 3 years, 9 months ago

You are correct, "women's rights lose again." You are correct only if "women's rights" mean the right for women to have unsafe drive-thru pregnancies.

Katara 3 years, 9 months ago

?

The term "drive-thru pregnancy" has nothing to do with abortion and refers to the practice of a new mother being discharged from the birthing facility within hours of birth (approximately 8 hours for vaginal birth & 24 for a C-section) due to insurance requirements.

That practice has been discontinued, although IMO, many women continued to be discharged far too early from post natal care to catch common problems that occur after birth.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Except that alot of the legislators who supported the regs. were women! Apparently you can't believe that women who bare children are opposed to them being dismembered in the womb! Well wake up and see that many women are not in favor of this "choice"! Many women are pro-life!

Centerville 3 years, 9 months ago

And enough with hiding behind the fetus v. baby screen. Someone (Reagan?) has said, correctly, that no matter what you want to call it, the purpose of an abortion is to kill something.

beatrice 3 years, 9 months ago

If that is the case and there is no difference in the words used, then why are conservatives so resistant to calling a fetus a fetus?

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

I don't think we are but we are afraid that people can be blinded by words like "choice" and do not face what the "choice" is.

blindrabbit 3 years, 9 months ago

Satirical: You know good and well that the real focus of the new Kansas Regs. is to ultimately deny all abortion services. The motives of the "anti's" has always been to "gain" a little ground on the issue by picking at the fringes. This methodology has been somewhat successful for the "anti's"; even by encouraging the palaver that led up to the murder of Dr. Teller.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

ummm--- are you saying "incrementalism" works for both the right and left. Do a little research on how abortion was legalized in this country the left moved the exact same way! It is just the way things get done in our country through slow processes of change.

jafs 3 years, 9 months ago

Then be honest about it.

Don't claim you just want safe facilities if your real goal is to eliminate abortion.

Kate Rogge 3 years, 9 months ago

And enough with hiding behind the safety v. anti-abortion screen. The law may be about safety. The rushed application of that law is clearly about eliminating abortion clinics.

Kyle Chandler 3 years, 9 months ago

ATTENTION EVERYBODY

kansanjayhawk has decided that he will finance all of your children. Provided they attend his 'Camp Og Ignorance' every summer, to learn how to give safe abortions.

Again, send all your money requests to kansanjayhawk.....he has all the answers.

overthemoon 3 years, 9 months ago

Until you can find a way to change the nature of human beings, the male-type in particular and ensure that no woman is ever forced or enticed to have sex for the pleasure of men, then you're attacking the wrong end of the problem. On top of that, the sanctimonious right will make it harder for women to get birth control (without concern for 24/7 advertising and insurance coverage for Viagra and Cialis), make maternal and child care out of reach for a huge number of low income (the new middle class) women, restrict opportunities for a decent education for both mothers and children and accept that 1 in 10 Americans are or have been in the prison system at some point in their lives. Until you'll quit hijacking our entire political system with a single issue, then I don't want to hear A N Y more claptrap about the sanctity of human life from those who clearly don't understand the human condition or any part of reality.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Maybe if more of us respected the dignity of each human life we would have less human suffering and fewer victims of selfishness. Can't we all have the same goal of helping others without being attacked even if we disagree for our sincerely held religious beliefs?

beatrice 3 years, 9 months ago

My religious beliefs of having no religion are sincerely held. Your posts about "sin" are intended as an attack against my beliefs. Perhaps you should consider your own behavior on here before pointing fingers at others.

overthemoon 3 years, 9 months ago

Then let us join forces in taking care of our planet. All those precious little babies ain't going to like coming into a world that is unfit for human habitation. I mean that quite sincerely...it is completely contradictory to rally against the single issue of abortion while ignoring or even obstructing the very things which make life on this rock a winning proposition for all of our billions of inhabitants. To do A N Y TH I N G less is the very epitome of disregard for life.

The F A C T that the entire anti abortion movement was a fabrication created in order to create a voting block for a conservative agenda that has very little regard for human life should be a wake up call. (read some Frank Schaeffer) I do not suggest that abortion isn't something to be addressed as a symptom of much greater societal problem. But on the order of magnitude for issues that must be dealt with, it comes about 20th on the list. I am completely and totally disgusted and tired of this issue being the defining element of our political and social realm. The planet is dying, we are fighting wars that have no potential for victory for either side, we are throwing away our history, our values, and our potential for greatness...planet wide. Why fight for the 'unborn' when we can not assure that they will have a gnat's a** chance of succeeding in life???

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/06/24/23/00/dzsmi.So.81.pdf

What part of this is unreasonable for abortion clinics to comply with? Just curious what others think.

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

I agree it was quick and shouldn't have been as fast, but is that all? Did you actually read the regulations? What necessarily do you think is unreasonable for these clinics to comply with, besides the deadline?

notaubermime 3 years, 9 months ago

I did not read them all as I don't have any background in abortion clinics or the healthcare industry and would not know an unreasonable regulation if it slapped me in the face.

I do, however, manage a government regulated facility and to only give two weeks time to comply with regulations involving the construction of the building is ridiculous. It simply isn't possible to make those sorts of changes within that short of a time frame.

mcmandy 3 years, 9 months ago

The two week deadline for compliance with policies that could require new construction, for one.

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

again, the deadline is the only thing? so If they gave them more time there isn't one thing that is unreasonable?

bolshavik_vw 3 years, 9 months ago

People are going to do what they wish, and if there is not a place in Kansas, then they will figure out where they can go get one. It not only gives Abortions, It also will give a Woman an Examination for a Pap Smear, Pelvic Exam,Mammogram, etc. Well now it won't be anywhere a woman can go for these Services. And while you are at keep the crooks, who are Religous Fanatics open and running. (Heartland Medical Clinic.) You close down the good ones, and keep the nutjobs up and running. I have never had nor have I ever needed to have an abortion, although I am not going to tell someone what they can and can not do. That is what is happening with the state now, freedoms that we have known for so long are dissappearing at an alarming rate, all because if this nut of a Governor had his way Women,Minorities, etc, would be forced to have their babies, and not be able to find a healthy alternative,because to these people.(Republican Mentality) Ok don't have sex until your married,ok have sex you do not need protection, ok your pregnant, you have to have the baby, ok you have the baby now put it up for adoption when there are so many now needing to be adopted,ok this baby is a mixed baby and your going to raise it, well your on your own. This is still how some of the old biggots think today. And it is sad. Although they will be the first ones to say they are not racist, well why are we letting these people control us, we all have rights and we all have the right to choose what we wish to do with our unborn child. Not only did Planned Parenthood, do these services, they also gave out Birth Control and Condoms, I really hope you are happy Sam Brownsack, and don't be suprised if one of your kids,Neighbors,family members, some day get raped and does not want to have the child. Or they just decide to become a HO, have a lot of kids with a lot of dads, and make us all pay for it, What do you think of that idea SAM?

Katara 3 years, 9 months ago

What is so disturbing is that many of the social conservatives think marriage is the solution to this issue. That if you are married, you'll never need an abortion. That the wedding ring on your finger is some sort of amulet that will guarantee that you will only have healthy pregnancies with excellent outcomes. Or that somehow once you've hit the magic number of kids you can financially, physically and emotionally handle, all chances of any pregnancy disappears.

I don't understand the thinking. Married women get abortions too, for a variety of reasons.

Angela Heili 3 years, 9 months ago

I think it's interesting that people are up in arms about the legislators making decisions on healthcare but they are hailing the government in their move for government run healthcare with Obamacare.

Either way, it's the government (not medical professionals) making decisions on health care. This is what the people who voted a democrat in wanted, and they love the government making decisions on health care, but when a republican does it it's a horrible thing, and visa versa.

overthemoon 3 years, 9 months ago

The Affordable Care Act is N O T government run health care. The people who told you that were lying, they continue to lie, and you are spreading lies when you make that incorrect statement.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Obama care has many facets and it will dramatically increase the involvement of the Federal and State governments with our healthcare! So I think you are not being honest either in your description of the legislation.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

Obama care has many facets and it will dramatically increase the involvement of the Federal and State governments with our healthcare! So I think you are not being honest either in your description of the legislation.

Angela Heili 3 years, 9 months ago

According to the article they aren't trying to deny the procedure just make sure it's safe for the women having the procedure. Thank you for your snarkiness by the way Jesse. I appreciate that.

overthemoon 3 years, 9 months ago

If that were the case, there would be a standard inspection, review and compliance schedule...not two weeks. They are trying to make abortion impossible to obtain under the guise of 'safety'. This has happened in other states as well and the motive is clear. Do not be deceived!

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

So, if the timeline were increased, are there any of the new regulations that you think are unreasonable?

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

The definition of unborn child for one.

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

So, that's a definition, not one of the regulations. But, beyond that, you have the opportunity to request that that be changed to fetus at a public hearing if you want that changed. Again, what shouldn't the clinics have to abide by in the regulations? Not one person has posted one thing other than the timeline, which I agree with btw, that has anything to do with what the actual operations/facilities of the clinics that they think is unreasonable. Seems to me to be pretty telling.

overthemoon 3 years, 9 months ago

I've not read the regulations but from what little I know about them they seem to be similar to the sort of regs for nursing homes and outpatient facilities...which are very explicit and sometimes very difficult to accomplish in an existing building. Interesting that Brownback and his fellow GOPers decry government regulations at every opportunity and do not see the blatant hypocrisy of this hasty implementation.

xclusive85 3 years, 9 months ago

I posted a link for the regulations above. Here it is again from the Kansas City Star. You should read them.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2011/06/24/23/00/dzsmi.So.81.pdf

bluedawg79 3 years, 9 months ago

Just wait, in a few years when the number of families needing public assistance increase, the conservative right will be crying that it's costing the taxpayers too much. They never seem to analyze long-term outcomes. And, they'll blame it on the liberal-left somehow.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

  1. yes this is a law designed to limit abortion.
  2. This is not a law to outlaw abortion.
  3. This law will result in women having a safer experience with abortion in Kansas.
  4. While I don't like abortion at all this law is a good attempt to bring reasonableness to the debate by just seeing to it that the facilities are adequate, clean, and meet minimal standards of medical care!
  5. Pro-life and Pro-choice people should be able to agree with this law.

Kathy Getto 3 years, 9 months ago

  1. Which part(s) of this law is designed to limit abortion?
  2. It would stand to reason if one wishes to limit a procedure - their true motive is to outlaw totally.
  3. Women in Kansas already had the ability to receive their choice in a safe environment. 4 There is no reasonableness to the debate because one side thinks they have the right to determine what a woman does with her own body.
  4. There will never be an agreement as long as the lawmakers are legislating based on their sky god.

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

YOU ARE IGNORING THE KCK CLINIC FILTH>>> the reason this law was passed... unsanitary conditions!

kansanjayhawk 3 years, 9 months ago

By the way why do you need point #5--why attack peoples religious beliefs?

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