Archive for Sunday, May 31, 2009

Vigils held in Lawrence, Wichita for Tiller

Mourners gather for a candlelight vigil at a park in Lawrence, Kan., Sunday, May 31, 2009. The vigil was for Dr. George Tiller who was shot to death earlier in the day.

Mourners gather for a candlelight vigil at a park in Lawrence, Kan., Sunday, May 31, 2009. The vigil was for Dr. George Tiller who was shot to death earlier in the day.

May 31, 2009, 3:05 p.m. Updated May 31, 2009, 11:19 p.m.

George Tiller shot to death at church

The man accused of shooting and killing Kansas abortion doctor George Tiller remains in jail.

More than 150 people came to South Park in Lawrence on Sunday night and hundreds turned out in Wichita’s Old Town to remember George Tiller, the late-term abortion provider who’d been at the center of protests for decades and was killed Sunday morning. A five-minute moment of silence was observed at 8:45 p.m. at gatherings around the state.

In Lawrence, Kansas Sen. Marci Francisco and others spoke to a crowd that gathered with candles, some members with white ribbons tied around their arms. Janet FitzGerald brought a sign to the event that equated the man who killed Tiller to a terrorist, hypocrite and coward.

Francisco discussed the stories she had heard about Tiller.

“The stories that I was told were stories of families that he helped,” said Francisco. “Stories about adoptions he had arranged, stories where families were concerned about health of a daughter. I hope that those are the stories that we are telling as we talk to people in these coming weeks.”

Thad Holcombe, minister at Ecumenical Christian Ministries, encouraged those in attendance to “be of good will and seek justice.”

“Be people of peace. Be the ones that witness the compassion. Be the astute ones, the political ones in the midst of our society, challenging those who think otherwise. And always be ones that know we need one another,” Holcombe said.

Among concerns of those at the vigil: Who will pick up where Tiller left off, and what will come next for his supporters.

Jake Lowen, who helped organize the vigil, urged people to consider a role in Tiller’s cause, such as volunteering at a clinic or making a financial contribution to organizations that “support reproductive freedom.”

“Whether it’s simply committing themselves to not being part of the hate that led to Dr. Tiller’s murder today,” said Lowen, “any gesture, however small, I think will have a positive impact.”

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Comments

classclown 6 years, 1 month ago

Now that's just stupid. Typical of Lawrence folks to attempt to make a saint out of anybody that dies. Remember what all those dumb kids did to that tree? What are these folks going to pile up to honor Tiller?

Tiller was a nobody in the grand scheme of things. Yet these idiots want to put him up there with Martin Luther King Jr.

How about having vigils for people that actually deserve them for making our world a better place?

ksb 6 years, 1 month ago

Dr. Tiller lost his life in support of women's freedom. In my world, that is honorable.

sinedie 6 years, 1 month ago

I think the point is that this wasn't someone who just died - it was a politically/religiously motivated assassination that took place in a church, of all places. Whatever your reaction is, that's fine, but if you think this isn't a big deal, you're not paying attention.

Horace 6 years, 1 month ago

The man's profession consisted of flushing babies down the toilet. Why would anyone hold a vigil?

no12u 6 years, 1 month ago

I see nothing "honorable" about killing innocent babies in the name of freedom.

sunnyday 6 years, 1 month ago

George Tiller was one of three brave doctors willing to provide women with the option of a late-term abortion. It isn't a common procedure, but it is one that is sometimes necessary to save a woman's life. This choice, to provide a much needed service that happens to be highly unpopular, put his life in danger ever single day. He will be greatly missed. We can only hope someone else will be brave enough to pick up the torch.

storm 6 years, 1 month ago

Women and families, all over the world mourn the loss of a great physician today. He most definitely made the world a better place, and he is well-deserving of this vigil.

classclown 6 years, 1 month ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

classclown, so are you planning a vigil for the alleged killer now that he's caught?

====================================

That's a very idiotic assumption beo. Just because I don't believe in a bunch of idiots elevating Tiller to the level of sainthood as they are planning to symbolically do tonight does not mean that I was in favor of his murder.

I don't view Tillers' support for abortion rights as being on a crusade for womens' rights in as much as for his desire to stay employed. What he did for a living is legal, however if its' legal status were to ever change then he would find himself out of a job.

Nothing wrong with him doing everything he legally could to be able to retain his job, but I believe his actions in the fight to be more selfish than noble.

Neither Tiller or his killer have done anything to make the world a better place therefore a vigil is not appropriate for either.

By the way beo. Pull your pants up. You're showing your @ss.

ksb 6 years, 1 month ago

If you are a member of Lawrence's pro-choice community, your attendance at tonight's vigil would be a powerful message of support for Dr. Tiller's family and the movement as a whole. If this doesn't apply to you (or if you cannot possibly understand why people would want to honor the late Dr. Tiller), then please feel free to disregard.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 1 month ago

Machiavelli_mania, your comments are intentionally inflammatory. You know what your saying is over the top but you think it serves your cause, whatever that is. Here's some advise, get back on your meds. But I doubt you take it.

Leslie Swearingen 6 years, 1 month ago

"Dr. Tiller lost his life in support of women's freedom. In my world, that is honorable." Nonsense, Dr. Tiller was just another doctor making a living. And, it will never be a fetus to me, but always a baby. Also, please do not tell someone who has a difference of opinion with you to go back on their meds. No medication is going to make someone think like you or believe like you. It is doing a disservice to those who have a mental illness to call people crazy when you get angry at them.

absolutelyridiculous 6 years, 1 month ago

As a prolife supporter, I find the killing of Dr. Tiller, intolerable. However, I will not honor him or make him a martyr either. I WILL pray for him and his family, praying for the God to have mercy on his soul...and I ask God to have mercy on mine too. Our actions here on this earth, have eternal consequences...we can be violent through gunfire AND by word. Let's choose respect for all life, including those in this forum.

slowplay 6 years, 1 month ago

OK. So the only option for the mother of the late term abortion is death? Currently the mothers health must be in danger for that abortion to occur. In essence Dr. Tiller was saving lives. I'm am against abortion, but I still believe a woman has the right to decide, pending the legality.

Nor would I attend a vigil for him. Only extreme pro-abortionists will attend; as is their right.

The killer sounds like he may be a quarter short of a dollar so I doubt if there was a major conspiracy.

Steve Jacob 6 years, 1 month ago

A vigil might be a little over the top, but oh well. So basically Tiller is a martyr to some and the shooter is a hero to some. Like this country needed more divisiveness.

staff04 6 years, 1 month ago

Keep your heads down at the vigil--we know based on the postings on these message boards that there are many in the Lawrence area who are, albeit privately (I would hope), celebrating the man who murdered Dr. Tiller, a living and viable human being whom God had breathed the breath of life into.

labmonkey 6 years, 1 month ago

What a f'ed up world it is when people plan a vigil for someone like Tiller.

Also his murderer should get the harshest sentance possible. He has set the Pro-LIFE movement back.

doc1 6 years, 1 month ago

I want to hold a vigil for ice cream. Who's in?

ksb 6 years, 1 month ago

To suggest that having a vigil for a murdered man is akin to having a vigil for ice cream is nothing short of asinine. I'm genuinely flattered that so many of you are so deeply threatened by our little memorial gathering, though. Wow.

maetl 6 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 1 month ago

KSB: Dr. Tiller lost his life in support of women's freedom. In my world, that is honorable. ---and to he|| with the female babies that get killed. to he|| with babies killed because they are female.

it is a farce to say the late term abortions were done to save the lives of mothers. overwhelmingly Tiller stretched the definition of that far far beyond the intent of kansas law.

nationally less than 3% of all abortions are for the much sited life of the mother/rape/sexual abuse.

over 95% of abortions are simply birth control abortions, dispose of the baby for the mother's convenience or to protect the abuser.

abortion does have physical and psychological risks. a woman getting an abortion will decrease her potential for carrying a baby to term later in life. she will increase her risk of breast cancer.

*so, who's really worried about "rights" of women?

a vigil for a man who made a lot of money killing babies? shameful. make a saint out of him, very misguided.

repaste 6 years, 1 month ago

Men should not have right to post on this, it is not he christians who are crazy, it is the right wing kooks. I don't remember where thebible says "kill him" Fat white males, quit typing.

verity 6 years, 1 month ago

About 200 people were there and nobody kept their heads down. We are not afraid and will not be intimidated.

onceinawhile 6 years, 1 month ago

To those bringing up how abortion is used as simply a birth control method: What makes people think women WANT to get an abortion? Let's look at the decision to have an abortion as it is: a life-changing choice that no one would WANT to make or go through.

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

repaste (Anonymous) says… "Men should not have right to post on this, it is not he christians who are crazy, it is the right wing kooks. I don't remember where thebible says “kill him” Fat white males, quit typing."

Sonia? Sonia Sotomayor? Is that you?

onceinawhile (Anonymous) says… "To those bringing up how abortion is used as simply a birth control method: What makes people think women WANT to get an abortion?"

Because of all the abortions in this country almost none of them are forced upon unwilling women?

verity (Anonymous) says… "We are not afraid and will not be intimidated."

Good for you.

Hawk6643 6 years, 1 month ago

Some of the people on here are so close minded. If you can't respect the opinions of others, while still keeping your own belief's, then you shouldn't be allowed to talk.

roosmom 6 years, 1 month ago

Labmonkey... would the harshest be death? So let me get this straight let's kill someone who killed someone who killed. Is that what you believe? I just don't get it.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 1 month ago

repaste (Anonymous) says…

Men should not have right to post on this, it is not he christians who are crazy, it is the right wing kooks. I don't remember where thebible says “kill him” Fat white males, quit typing.

uh, "jake Lowen" organized this "vigil...is jake a bearer of two X chromosomes? did I miss something, was George Tiller a woman in men's cloting?

Repast, you're a joke, right?

one side of your crazy leftist mouths you say men should take responsibility...but often planned parenthood actually performs abortions that protect men over age 21 having sex with under age girls.

you say men should take responsibility but should have no part in the choice of whether to abort a child; yet, if baby is brought to term and delivered, you support hitting that man with child support. hypocrisy, ya' think?


those 200-probably over estimated--are indeed free to gather and speak their opinion. but I am also free to oppose them, to identify their misguided ideas, and their hypocrisy.

think about it, going to a public place to honor the memory of a man who's entire profession these days has been the killing of babies. he did it for pretty good profit. made kansas the late term abortion capital of the nation.

not worthy of such a meeting.

Thats_messed_up 6 years, 1 month ago

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kittycatty26 6 years, 1 month ago

If you don't have a womb, your opinion does not count.

blakus 6 years, 1 month ago

Of course, it's easy to forget that women sometimes need a late-term abortion if the fetus is not developing properly. A family member of mine was four months pregnant when she found out from three different doctors that the fetus was not developing lungs and the heart was deformed. Would you tell me that the family member should die because abortion is wrong? Would seem hypocritical to think so. Please remember, there are women in this country that are need of abortions due to instances such as this. Generalizations makes the abortion argument too black and white. It isn't a black and white issue.

Hawk6643 6 years, 1 month ago

Thats_messed_up, please do your research before you post a comment about the procedures of late abortions. Yes, while that may be the procedure used, the amount of actual people that receive late term abortions, past 20 weeks, in the United States is very small.

I am not saying that late term abortions are right or wrong, everyone should make their own decisions based on that subject, but one thing most people here will never realize is the emotions and feelings these women are going through when they choose to have an abortion, at any period of time. Of course it is a terrifying experience I am sure, but also is the thoughts of raising a baby alone, not being able to provide for that child, or carrying that child full term, only to have it stripped away from you shortly after you deliver it. It is ignorant to make judgements on these women that chose to have this procedure done, because you, or anyone else will never realize the exact reasons for their actions.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5511a1.htm

Practicality 6 years, 1 month ago

kittycatty26 (Anonymous) says…

"If you don't have a womb, your opinion does not count."

Ridiculous statement again. Too much of this type of thinking. Men have every bit as a right to comment on this subject as women do.

Like Beared_Gnome said earlier,

"you say men should take responsibility but should have no part in the choice of whether to abort a child; yet, if baby is brought to term and delivered, you support hitting that man with child support. hypocrisy, ya' think?"

Leslie Swearingen 6 years, 1 month ago

Some men want children and love them every bit as much as the woman. So it is devastating and heart breaking to hear that your child has been legally killed by the mother and her doctor. Knowing what a partial birth abortion is, what kind of woman has one, what does she think and feel while the procedure is going on, does she see the dead baby afterwards? Is the baby given a burial? What happens to the body? Will we have answers to these questions?

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

kittycatty26 (Anonymous) says… "If you don't have a womb, your opinion does not count."

Do not confuse stifling voices in debate as being the same as wining the debate. In fact men are more likely than women to be pro-choice! A year ago, Gallup found more women calling themselves pro-choice than pro-life, by 50% to 43%, while men were more closely divided: 49% pro-choice, 46% pro-life. Now, because of heightened pro-life sentiment among both groups, women as well as men are more likely to be pro-life, but men are still more likely to be pro choice. http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.aspx

The Supreme Court that decided Roe v. Wade: Warren E. Burger, William O. Douglas, William J. Brennan, Jr., Potter Stewart, Byron White, Thurgood Marshall, Harry Blackmun, Lewis F. Powell, Jr., and William Rehnquist and not one of them had a womb and nor did St. Tiller his self. So when will abandon your hate mongering based upon your outdated gender prejudices and stereotypes?

djeyler 6 years, 1 month ago

A lady said she was worried about how people saw wichita and kansas. In lawrence it is seen as a brave place and a leader of womens rights. For many it WAS the the abortion capital of the nation and world. Some politicians are going to see a significant drop in their campaign contributions.

repaste 6 years, 1 month ago

I made a stupid comment , the real part is no womb, no right. How can we men tell a women she must carry a child? I believe abortion to be a sad horrible choice, but a womens choice. It is not a thing most women take lightly, it haunts most. A baby is a true miracle brought through a women - when it is in her body it is hers. Being male, I cannot make that cal.

repaste 6 years, 1 month ago

Mr says it all. When you know what it is like to have that life inside you, I'll listen. Why are 95% right wing nuts pro death penalty?

hwarangdo 6 years, 1 month ago

The man who murdered Tiller is a murderer ... regardless of what or who Tiller was. The fact that a zealot would murder someone for "religious" reasons is very sad indeed. Or was it done to "enhance" discussion about the new supreme court nominee? Something from the far-right perhaps to add to the fire? Theories abound, of course. And the hate rhetoric flows on and on as the nation is split apart even further into chaos. Hatred, violence, murder ... where does it end? There are so many living in paranoia, ready to lash out verbally and physically at anyone. The more battle lines are drawn, the farther apart we are as a nation. Gee, I wonder who would possibly want our nation to "split apart"? Somehow I am reminded of an old saying we heard back in the "anti-war" days ... "kill for peace". So now what will become the ultra-right call to "justice"? "Murder for justice" ? Because in the end, murder is murder - assassination is just that ... and for that to be done in a church is something that needs to be thought about. After all, killing in the name of God is only done by terrorists, right?

agrabass 6 years, 1 month ago

So, is Dr. Tiller in a heated discussion with St. Peter at the perly gates wondering why he can't get into heaven right now, or is he in and in a "closed door" discussion with God/ the Universe regarding the mission of his soul on earth?
I think he is kickin' back, and having a fabulous dirty martini an eclectic mix of people who have worked hard to do their part on this crazy earth. Cheers and my thoughts are with his family!

igby 6 years, 1 month ago

Mach: Most religious people don't care what you do with your body. Just because this one man killed Tiller for his own satisfaction; like Lennon's killer or JFK's killer; most religious people do not judge society or any person for their sin.

Howbeit a few pro-life activist are gloating no doubt!

May their God be their judge and not mankind.

tunahelper 6 years, 1 month ago

remember you silly leftists, when you die, God will certainly have the last laugh!

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

repaste (Anonymous) says… "Why are 95% right wing nuts pro death penalty?"

Actually as of 2004 (the latest Gallup numbers) only 80% of Republicans support the death penalty, but so did 65% of Independants and 58% of Democrats. So all those in favor of the death penalty "right wing nuts" or just the Republicans? http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/gallup-poll-who-supports-death-penalty

Pew research found that only a majority of liberal democrats oppose the death penalty but that in every other group a majority favors it including conservative, moderate, and liberal republicans, independents and conservative moderate democrats. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=272

Further, although support for the death penalty is highest among white evangelical Protestants (74%), even a solid majority of the religiously unaffiliated (59%), still favors capital punishment. http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=272

The women who shot first Dr. Tiller in the arms did not receive the death penalty, she is still in prison. So when will you left wing nut jobs stop your lies and your hate speech? When will you stop the hate mongering against religious white conservative republicans?

justtired 6 years, 1 month ago

Just remember, women went to him voluntarily. No one was forced to his clinic. A woman has the right to control her body and destiny!

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

onceinawhile (Anonymous) says… “To those bringing up how abortion is used as simply a birth control method: What makes people think women WANT to get an abortion?”

justtired (Anonymous) says… "Just remember, women went to him voluntarily."

Well said.

WhiteDog 6 years, 1 month ago

Mr_Collusion (Anonymous) says… You had better think about it.


That sounds threatening.

Or else what? Someone might shoot him in the face?

Sigmund 6 years, 1 month ago

According to Dr. Tillers website (or more precisely googles cache of it), Dr. Tiller offered a "remembrance" of your aborted "baby". I copied this word for word and am quite sure I will be accused of hate mongering for doing so. Either that or JK of he LJW will delete the post for being to insensitive. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:KG7QEhEgXwwJ:www.drtiller.com/remembrance.html+site:drtiller.com+www.drtiller.com&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

"Many patients request a remembrance of their baby to take home with them. The following lists items and services that some of our previous patients have found helpful in their emotional recovery. Everyone approaches this experience with their own unique emotional, spiritual, and cultural background. There is not right way or wrong way, just "your way". Once the process of healing has begun, you may want to consider a token of the precious time you and your baby had together. All of these features of our program will be discusssed with you while you are with us:

  • Viewing your baby after delivery
  • Holding your baby after delivery
  • Photographs of your baby
  • Baptism of your baby, with or without a certificate
  • Footprints and handprints of your baby
  • Certificate of premature miscarriage
  • Cremation
  • An urn for ashes
  • Arrangement of burial in either Wichita or your home state
  • Arrangement of amniocentesis/autopsy
  • Medical photographsand x-rays for your health care professional

Grief is a very complex emotion which is expressed in many different ways. We will attempt to accommodate your individual requests to the very best of our abilities."

Hawk6643 6 years, 1 month ago

Sigmund, that process of viewing the baby, ect., is offered in most abortion clinics, not just Tillers.

igby 6 years, 1 month ago

Sigmund:

I would of thought that women would want to forget that they had an abortion. Why would they want some thing like this, this is sick.

storm 6 years, 1 month ago

Keep up the good fight everyone. Remember we fight not for ourselves but for those who can not themselves. Mr. C Send contributions to Peggy Bowman Fund.

BigPrune 6 years, 1 month ago

People keep stating these late term abortions Tiller performed were to save the life of a mother - this is not true. Most of these women had emotional reasons for ending their late term pregnancy. It was for their "mental well-being." For example, one woman had a late term abortion because she couldn't run track in school and this was causing too much stress in her life., etc.

His clinic was known worldwide. The majority of his patients were from out of state. It was a multi-million dollar operation. I do not condone his killing at all.

I wonder if prayers were optional at this vigil, being Lawrence and all.

motocross 6 years, 1 month ago

Tiller was a murderer of the worst kind!! He killed precious babies, to me it's justice finally served. Does the defense side need money?!

WAKE UP!!!

Erin Parmelee 6 years, 1 month ago

labmonkey (Anonymous) says…

Also his murderer should get the harshest sentance possible. He has set the Pro-LIFE movement back.


I couldn't agree more, and I am surprised more of the pro-life contingent on here hasn't addressed this. I myself am pro-choice. But if I were pro-life I would be infuriated by this horrific crime which is not only inherently opposed to the "pro-life" philosophy, but also sets the whole movement back on a national scale. Every time something like this happens, it makes it easier and easier to classify the whole group.....

boy_genius 6 years, 1 month ago

barrypenders: I can't tell if you're serious or not. Women who "like the process of procreating" without liking the ACTUAL procreating have decided to kill someone else to hide the consequences. As for "choosing in China," it works for everyone but the dead babies, huh?

hwarangdo 6 years, 1 month ago

Paranoia strikes deep ... into your heart it will creep ...

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