Archive for Thursday, March 12, 2009

FINAL: Dunn’s 24 points lead Baylor to upset over top-seeded KU, 71-64

Kansas guard Sherron Collins makes his way from the court during a timeout in the second half Thursday, March 12, 2009 at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City.

Kansas guard Sherron Collins makes his way from the court during a timeout in the second half Thursday, March 12, 2009 at the Ford Center in Oklahoma City.

March 12, 2009, 9:57 a.m. Updated March 12, 2009, 9:50 p.m.


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2009 KU-Baylor March 12
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What seed should KU get in the NCAA tournament?

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KU vs. Baylor

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Who was KU's first-half MVP against Baylor?

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FINAL: BU defeats KU, 71-64

LaceDarius Dunn scored 24 points on 6-for-11 shooting from deep, leading ninth-seeded Baylor to a 71-64 victory over top-seeded Kansas.

After falling behind 30-13, KU rallied to take a 56-51 lead in the second half on a layup by Markieff Morris.

A few minutes later, the Bears followed with a 10-0 run to take control.

The Jayhawks, down three, had a chance to tie it with 26.5 seconds left, but Sherron Collins airballed a three-pointer. BU’s Henry Dugat hit both ends of a one-and-one on the other end to put the game out of reach.

“Our guys showed a lot of heart, and obviously they knew coming into this we are going to have to leave it on the line and come together as a team,” Baylor coach Scott Drew said. “I couldn’t be more proud of the effort.”

Baylor snapped a seven-game losing streak against KU.

It also was the first time that the Jayhawks had lost their opening game in the Big 12 tournament.

“I thought Baylor controlled the game from the get-go,” KU coach Bill Self said. “They were certainly better than us from the start. We got exactly what we deserved.”

Collins led KU with 16 points, but he made just six of his 20 field-goal tries. He was 1-for-8 in the first half.

Tyshawn Taylor and Marcus Morris contributed 12 points each. Taylor has averaged 15 points in his last five games on 25-for-41 shooting.

Against a packed-in 2-3 zone, Big 12 first-team selection Cole Aldrich managed just eight points on 3-for-5 shooting.

“I think it is a tribute to their zone. I think it is a tribute to our perimeter not doing a great job,” Self said. “Cole has to take responsibility for it, too. Guys have to find a way to get the ball.”

Kevin Rogers added 14 points for Baylor (19-13), which advanced to the semifinal round of the Big 12 tournament for the second time in school history.

The loss snaps a nine-game winning streak for KU (25-7) at the Big 12 tournament.

The Jayhawks will learn of their NCAA tournament destination Sunday.

KU scoring

Collins 16 (6-for-20 shooting), Marcus Morris 12, Taylor 12, Aldrich 8, Reed 6, Little 6, Morningstar 2, Markieff Morris 2.

KU was 25-for-62 from the floor (40.3 percent), 8-for-25 from three (32 percent) and 6-for-10 from the free-throw line (60 percent).

BU was 27-for-60 from the floor (45 percent), 8-for-25 from three (32 percent) and 9-for-13 from the free-throw line (69.2 percent).

FINAL: BU defeats KU, 71-64

Kevin Rogers hits a tough turn-around, and Collins follows with a missed shot in the lane.

Henry Dugat’s 18-footer rattles out, and KU has a chance to tie down three with 36 seconds left.

Collins airballs an open three with 26.5 seconds left.

Dugat is fouled, and the 76-percent free-throw shooter knocks both down to put the Bears up five.

Collins’ pass to Morningstar is stolen, and Dugat puts in a layup on the other end to finish off the upset.

KU loses by seven.

BU 65/KU 64 — 1:51 left in game

Just like that, Baylor is back on top.

Markieff Morris misses a contested dunk, and Dunn puts in his fifth three after a scramble play under the basket.

Reed forces a bad pass in traffic, and Dunn steals it before laying it in for two. Self calls timeout. Dunn is up to 21 points, and the Bears have made their run with Jerrells on the bench.

Mamadou Diene slams the ball off a pass from Rogers, and Dunn follows with a three in transition. That’s 10 straight points for BU, and KU has gone cold from the field.

Reed follows with a three to break KU’s extended drought. Two bad plays in a row, one from KU and one from Baylor. After clearing a rebound, Markieff Morris tried an impossible outlet pass, which was stolen.

Dunn jacked up a quick, quick three for Baylor, though, and after it missed, Collins drilled a three behind a screen to pull KU within one, pumping his fist after the shot went through.

KU 58/BU 55 — 7:46 left in game

KU finally gets over the hump and takes the lead, thanks to an unselfish play by Collins. After driving under the basket, Collins found Reed on the perimeter, and “Mr. Big Shot” (as our own online producer Nick Nelson calls him) swished the trey to put KU up, 54-51.

Seconds later, Reed missed from three, but Markieff Morris caught the carom and laid it off the glass for two in one sweeping motion. Drew calls timeout, and Collins waves his arms, urging the KU fans to come out of their seats.

Marcus Morris throws in a line-drive shot in the lane. He’s 5-for-10, but when he gets in that zone opening, it looks like he’s forcing up his shot too quickly. He needs to get the ball, compose himself, then shoot, instead of trying to do all three things in the matter of a half-second.

BU 49/KU 49 — 11:17 left in game

KU isn’t looking inside to Aldrich at all. The Jayhawks are getting bailed out by making shots, as Collins has swished two more threes.

Finally, KU gets it in the paint, and the final result is a layup by Little to tie it.

Little misses a jumper, and Self is furious with the no-call. The coach flirts with a technical, but backs off on the officials at just the right time.

Little, who stayed down on the court for a few seconds, came out of the game, but he isn’t receiving medical attention. On the replay, it didn’t look like there was much contact at all.

BU is just 5-for-17 from the field this half (29.4 percent).

BU 42/KU 40 — 15:58 left in game

Aldrich hits a fadeaway, then Collins puts in a fast-break layup to tie the score.

But Morningstar falls asleep defensively at a bad time, and BU gets some mometum back with Dunn’s fourth three.

A good sign for KU, as Collins rattles in a three from a few feet beyond the three-point line. After a 1-for-8 start, Collins is 2-for-2 this half.

KU scoring

Taylor 10 (4-for-5 shooting, 2-for-2 from three), Marcus Morris 9, Aldrich 6, Little 4, Collins 2, Morningstar 2.

KU was 14-for-31 from the floor (45.2 percent), 2-for-10 from three (20 percent) and 3-for-6 from the free-throw line (50 percent).

BU was 13-for-24 from the floor (54.2 percent), 5-for-13 from three (38.5 percent) and 6-for-8 from the line (75 percent).

A few quick thoughts

Is this not a carbon-copy of the Kansas State game earlier this year? KU trailed in that game, 30-13, before making a run led by Marcus Morris. Of course, the Jayhawks went on to win that game.

Brady McCollough of the Kansas City Star tells me that was the 17th time in KU's 32 games that they have scored in the last 10 seconds of the first half.

Baylor is 12-0 this year when shooting 50 percent or better from the floor. The Bears shot 54.2 percent in the first half. KU hasn't let an opponent shoot 50 percent or better against it since the 2007-08 season-opener against Louisiana-Monroe.

BU 37/KU 33 — Halftime

KU hits a drought at the wrong time. Collins misses a three. So does Marcus Morris. Aldrich’s follow rattles out.

On a drive, Taylor finally breaks the dry spell with a floater inside.

Once again, though, the Jayhawks prove to be the best two-minutes-and-under-in-the-first-half team in the nation.

Morningstar throws in a tricky reverse layup, and with five seconds left, Taylor swishes a three from the side. KU, which trailed by as many as 17 in the first half, is down just four at the break.

BU 32/KU 24 — 3:36 left in 1st half

Travis Releford throws an entry pass right to a Baylor defender. KU has five turnovers already.

KU struggles with defending a simple ball screen, as Jerrells finds an opening for an uncontested three. The Jayhawks look dazed, and Self uses his second timeout with his team trailing, 30-13.

Collins gets called for a hand-check, and he complains to the official. He hasn’t shown much good body language toward officials or teammates early in this one.

Aldrich is starting to become a presence inside. He follows a Marcus Morris miss with a tip-in, then gets fouled in the lane on another follow attempt.

Taylor hits an open three on a feed from Collins. He had passed on the shot all game, but KU needs him to take it.

After a miss from Jerrells, Collins pushes the pace, and Marcus Morris eventually gets free underneath for a layup. That’s a quick 9-0 run for KU, and reluctantly, BU coach Scott Drew calls timeout.

Right in front of us, Collins yells some encouragement to his teammate: “Let’s go Brady! Let’s go Brady!” The recent run looks like it has helped bring some better leadership from the KU guard.

BU 26/KU 13 — 7:52 left in 1st half

Mario Little misses two at the free-throw line. He has to be a scorer when he’s in there.

Dunn drains another three. I’m reminded of former NFL coach Dennis Green’s line, “They are who we thought they were.” Dunn is who we thought he was — a chucker and a shooter. KU still hasn’t defended him well, though, as he has 11 points on 3-for-5 shooting from three.

Little hits a six-foot fadeaway in the lane. That shot is going to be there all day for him against this zone.

Collins is 1-for-7 from the floor with just two points. KU is 0-for-4 from three.

BU 21/KU 9 — 11:48 left in 1st half

The zone has taken KU out of sync offensively. The Jayhawks look hesitant with the basketball. Self is trying all sorts of different combinations, but they’re not working right now.

Marcus and Markieff Morris aren’t hitting eight-to-10-foot jumpers, and that’s hurting the Jayhawks quite a bit. Mario Little checks in, and his mid-range game is exactly what the Jayhawks need against this zone.

Another bad sign for KU: Baylor is out-rebounding the Jayhawks, 7-4.

BU 13/KU 5 — 15:22 left in 1st half

LaceDarius Dunn hits a long three to beat the shot clock. Not good defense by Brady Morningstar, who should have known the deep try was coming.

BU’s already gone to the 2-3 zone. Sherron Collins beats it with a lob over the top to Tyshawn Taylor, who lays it in.

Another three from Dunn. Morningstar gave him too much room again.

This isn’t the Curtis Jerrells that we saw a month ago that didn’t have a field goal against KU. He’s much more confident today, driving in for two and hitting a fallaway three.

The Bears have gone 3-for-5 from deep, and they’ve controlled the game so far.

11:30 a.m.

Good KU representation in the seats, as a few thousand blue shirts circle the gym.

As a side note, it's pretty cold in here. I just saw Baylor's Kevin Rogers blow into his hands to keep warm. I don't think they're used to snow in mid-March in Oklahoma.

Reader poll
What is KU's all-time record in the finals of the Big 12 tournament?

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Reader poll
What is KU's all-time record in the quarterfinals round of the Big 12 tournament?

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Reader poll
Mario Chalmers scored how many points in last year's Big 12 Championship game against Texas?

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Reader poll
Who has the highest point total in a Big 12 tournament game for KU (31)?

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Reader poll
What is KU's record all-time in the Big 12 tournament?

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Reader poll
In the Big 12 Tournament's 13-year history, how many times has KU earned the No. 1 seed?

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Reader poll
How many times in Big 12 tournament history has an opponent shot 50 percent or better against KU?

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Reader poll
Who has led the Jayhawks in scoring the most times (five) in Big 12 tournament history?

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11:09 a.m.

OK, here are the answers to our quiz:

What is KU's all-time record in the finals of the Big 12 tournament?

Answer: 6-1. KU’s only loss in the Big 12 championship game came in 2002 — a 64-55 loss to Oklahoma.

What is KU's all-time record in the quarterfinals round of the Big 12 tournament?

Answer: 11-1. Entering the 2000 Big 12 tournament as the No. 5 seed, KU defeated Kansas State in the first round before losing to Oklahoma State, 77-58, in the quarterfinals.

The Jayhawks are 11-0 in the quarterfinals after receiving a first-round bye.

Mario Chalmers scored how many points in last year's Big 12 Championship game against Texas?

Answer: 30. How quickly we forget the Big 12 tournament championship when it’s on Selection Sunday. Chalmers had 30 points on 10-for-15 shooting from the floor and 8-for-12 shooting from three. It’ll be nice this year for the championship team to have a day to enjoy its Big 12 tournament title.

Who has the highest point total in a Big 12 tournament game for KU (31)?

Answer: Wayne Simien. He scored 31 against Missouri in the quarterfinals of the 2004 Big 12 tourney.

What is KU's record all-time in the Big 12 tournament?

Answer: 25-6. KU, though, has won nine straight Big 12 tournament games.

In the Big 12 Tournament's 13-year history, how many times has KU earned the No. 1 seed?

Answer: 6. KU received the No. 1 seed in 1997, 1998, 2002, 2003, 2007 and 2009. If you had watched our season review video, you would have gotten this one.

How many times in Big 12 tournament history has an opponent shot 50 percent or better against KU?

Answer: 0. This was a trick question because it was a trick question. Oklahoma State shot 48.9 percent against the Jayhawks in 1997, but that’s the highest an opponent has shot against KU in the Big 12 tourney. That surprised me a little bit.

Who has led the Jayhawks in scoring the most times (five) in Big 12 tournament history?

Answer: Paul Pierce. He led KU in scoring in five of his six Big 12 tourney games. Chalmers led KU in scoring four times, and Simien led KU in three contests.

10:33 a.m.

Here is an update on two Baylor injury situations.

Center Josh Lomers has a sprained ankle, but he should play. He was listed as questionable going into Wednesday’s first-round game against Nebraska, but he ended up starting and scoring 11 points on 5-for-5 shooting.

The seven-footer’s lack of mobility might affect Baylor’s defense, though. The Bears went to a lot of zone against Nebraska, letting the big man stand in the middle of the lane instead of chasing around an offensive player.

When Lomers is in the game, I would predict a lot of zone from Baylor.

Six-foot-7 forward Quincy Acy, meanwhile, played just five minutes (all in the second half) against Nebraska while battling an upper-respiratory infection. He’s averaging 5.9 points per game and had four points and five rebounds in the Bears’ first game against KU this season.

9:56 a.m.

Welcome back to The Newell Post Live, coming to you from the Ford Center in Oklahoma City, Okla., where the No. 11 Kansas Jayhawks are getting set to take on the Baylor Bears in the quarterfinals of the Big 12 tournament.

KU has had some remarkable success in the 13-year run of the Big 12 tournament.

But how good have the Jayhawks been?

Let’s test your knowledge of KU in the Big 12 tournament with the trivia questions on the left.

Answer the questions for yourself, and try to do so without any help (or without logging onto the Big12sports Web site).

Also, please don’t post the answers in the comments section. You’ll ruin the fun for everyone.

I’ll give the answers and 11 a.m. If you’re brave, you can post your guesses in the comments section below.

Also, anyone out there playing hooky from school? Or from work? Anyone called in sick to watch the game today?

Any good stories you have are open to the comments section below.


Emily Kennedy 9 years ago

Please please please update more often.

If the stress of midterms hasn't killed me yet, clicking on refresh 15 times in between each of your updates will. How about one quick paragraph and the score every three minutes or so rather than five paragraphs every 12 minutes?


Jonathan Kealing 9 years ago

villanelle- We've got more quick updates available if you follow us on Twitter:

Jonathan Kealing Online editor

jonas_opines 9 years ago

Well that sucks. Gave it to them, and I can't even be that mad since it's Baylor. Oh well, we're still in the tournament, and now somebody else gets a shot at it in our rebuilding year.

Oh, and Barry, you're not quite right. (surprise)

There's always Last year. Next year will happen as it will.

G_E 9 years ago

Damn, that sucked. But hey, this team performed better this year than nearly everyone (myself included) expected them to do, so I guess I can't get too down. Plus, we do have that outright Big 12 champions thing.

Oh, and lawrenceguy40 - you're an idiot.

Freestater456 9 years ago

He needs to go? Are you kidding me? After all of the players that he lost, for what he did why would you ever get rid of him? I mean as a K State fan I hope he goes to OK St so we only have to play him once a year. That was a ridiculous suggestion. Try to keep your idiotic comments to yourself. Thanks so much!

webmocker 9 years ago

If the NCAA tournament committee has a sense of humor they should match KU against a team that starts with "B."

Bubarubu 9 years ago

ringring -University of Kansas, how can I direct your call? -This is a 2 seed at the NCAA tournament calling,could I speak with the men's basketball program? -I'm sorry, can I take a message? They're on a conference call with the 4 and 5 seeds right now. Something about losing 2 of their last 3 to hot-shooting, unranked teams away from home.
-No, that's alright. Just let them know we're going to be pretty busy with work over the next few days and we hope to run into them on the second weekend of the tournament. Thanks.

Niraj Shah 9 years ago

Pathetic, great season but come on how many of these stub your toe games do these guys need to get it. One more and the season is over.

There is plenty of time to rest in the off season. The guys played like crap and no matter when or where it happens a "L" sucks. Hopefully they don't repeat this type of play next week.

Boeing 9 years ago

Call me crazy but I say good job for Baylor. It's not like we won't make it into the tourney. Sure it stinks but, we'll still have a high seed. Baylor has really impressed be with their turn around the last several years since the troubles, and I think it would be cool to see them in the NCAA tourney this year. It always stinks to lose, but I'm kind of pulling for Baylor the rest of the Big XII tourney.

LooPerkinsucks 9 years ago

Oh well, you'll always have last year, and don't forget, you're still a football school. Rebuilding year??? That's what the Chiefs have been saying for years... HA!

hesshawk 9 years ago

Pitiful, just pitiful. Obvious they can't bury themselves early and keep coming back every time.

Can't win shooting 25 3 point attempts without even really trying to get Aldrich involved. When a guard comes down the floor, passes to another guard who shoots a 3 that early in the shot clock, that's not what Self teaches. That's players not thinking about what they're supposed to do and trying to do it all themselves.

MUKUOUFan 9 years ago

KU is better than this. They need to shake it off, and bounce back in the Big Dance. Teams like Baylor and Texas Tech., are very dangerous, as they have nothing to lose, and have their backs against the wall. I wouldn't be surprised if MU loses tonight, but I doubt OSU will get past OU. Regardless, I'd hate to the be the team that opens against KU in the March tournament.

justthefacts 9 years ago

Fickle people aren't really fans!!! This could actually end up helping them play better in the NCAA games; nothing like a recent upset to fuel fires!

Lynn Wilson-Bruce 9 years ago

As bummed as I am about the loss... let's look at the bright side... they can get some rest and be ready for the big dance! Don't beat yourself up Hawks! Keep your chin up and know We love you, we are proud of you!!!

lawrencefan 9 years ago

No question that this was a frustrating and disappointing game. But tomorrow KU wakes up and looks forward to the first round of the NCAA tournament. Lawrenceguy40 will wake up still being an ignorant putz. It's a shame your keepers allow you to get so close to a computer.

fabian_zimbabwe 9 years ago

"Fickle people aren't really fans!!!"

Spot on, justthefacts. It amazes how quickly "fans" turn into Self haters mere seconds following the game. For me, considering where I thought we'd be back at the beginning of the season, with 80 percent of our scoring off to the NBA, I'll take this season hands down.

1029 9 years ago

Those last nine minutes were a perfect example of inconsistency. Up 58-53, they go 0-9 and don't score over 5 1/2 minutes, go down by 7, hit back-to-back threes to pull within one, then they never score again as baylor gets the last six points.

That was painful to watch. It wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't caught up until the last few minutes of the game. I love Collins, but sometimes he just makes stupid decisions. He should take a lot of responsibility for this loss--he really choked at the end of the game and let the rest of the team down.

webmocker 9 years ago

"We're going to be living off of 2008 for a long time! Self cannot recruit."

Are you willfully ignoring the facts?

Players Self recruited won the national championship last year, and the Big 12 regular season championship this year. And his lame recruits include at least 4 NBA players:

Darrell Arthur, Mario Chalmers, Julian Wright and Deron Williams.

Niraj Shah 9 years ago

Ready for NCAAs but cannot play inconsistent and expect to win games. You don't want the year to end on a sour note with a loss to a team like Baylor or TTech.

As anyone who has played competitve sports in HS or College losses to a lower seeded team eat at you the most. I had a coach who use to say that he hated to make the other team's day. Congrats to Baylor, Dunn was outstanding but I don't like that the Hawks did not come ready to compete today and unfortunately we have to watch a bunch of Baylor Bears smile and be happy. Worst off his to hear crowing from the MOO and Kitty fans. HCBS will have to be at his best this week to get the guys ready.

justthefacts 9 years ago

These are YOUNG people (even our Sherron isn't that old) and not that experienced. These are all learning opportunities. NONE of the pundits gave KU a shot at playing as well as they have (gradually) this season. What do people want; an NCAA national title every year (ala UCLA?). That's not happening. Being beat and losing is never fun. But these young players deserve our support, especially when they're not at their best. We know there are better days ahead!

Alia Ahmed 9 years ago

I agree with boeing and girly-girly. Good for Baylor. When you think about the state of that program a few years ago, it is amazing what they've done. Of course, as a Jayhawk fan I'm disappointed when we lose any game. But, we will still be seated fairly high in the NCAA tourney, will be well rested and I'm thankful for the season we've had thus far. Rock Chalk!

shotgun 9 years ago

HA! HA! LOL "They gave it away"? How about a little credit to Baylor. They "manned up" and handed The Jayhawk's their a$$es! Big XII Basketball 2008-2009 = inconsistent!

tanya 9 years ago

the jayhawks have had a phenomenal season for this young team. bill needs to go nowhere! baylor played their hearts out, and they deserved the win with our turnovers. win or lose, i love bill's boys! those who don't aren't true fans and can cheer the next winning team....but if it is our boys (god willing) don't sit next to me at the game.

woodenfleaeater 9 years ago

That's it. I'm done with the Jayhawks. To Baylor??? To Baylor??? You have to be kidding me. Time to start the fireplace.

Niraj Shah 9 years ago

I am not expecting an NCAA title every year, what UCLA did will never be matched especially with exapanded tournaments. I expect the guys will fight back and be ready.

Baylor had better effort than our guys and that what is most troubling. Losses are part of the game, and sometime things don't go your way, but effort should not suffer. I am sure HCBS will get on the guys about effort and energy.

Jason Bailey 9 years ago

OK, now that we're getting close to having Basketball out of the way, let's start focusing on Reesing and Meier's senior year. Bring on the Football coverage!

jaywalker 9 years ago

Whew. That was brutal. Troubling thing is that the last three games have been brutal. They don't beat Texas without Allen Field House and the crowd. We've looked sluggish and uninspired the last 8 days, wondering if that 'freshman wall' may have just cropped up. No energy, guys standing around watching, lazy passing, settling for early or guarded shots.......We went from an outside shot at a 1 seed to a probable 4. Gonna go into the Dance with no expectations, soften the blow if we continue down this path. Been a great year, though. Hope we can ramp it up next week. Go Hawks!

And to lawrenceguy40 and Loo - get a life! Biggest losers in sports are the ones that go to opponent's message boards and taunt. Congrats!

DenverBuzz 9 years ago

It seems that Collins is not the leader he thinks he is, or that Self insists. This game is only one instance where he tries to do too much and costs the team. A good leader realizes when he is not playing well, and lets, or helps, others play better. He has not done this. Too many long 3's, too many drives-to-the-basket-and-just-throw-it-up. Maybe it's ego.

BigAl 9 years ago

Baylor played well. Congrats to them. As far as KU, they ARE the regular season Big12 Champs with one of the youngest teams in the nation. So far, KU has a great year going. This season isn't over. Also,they are STILL the defending National Champions. Bill Self is one of, if not the best, coach in the country. KU basketball is rock solid and the future is extremely bright.

CLARKKENT 9 years ago

what was the story???

possible number 1 seed or one and done??

jonas_opines 9 years ago

shotgun: Yes, they gave it away. Stupid plays at the end, not great plays by Baylor. I give Baylor all the credit in the world, in the absence of KU they've been my 2nd pick to root for over the past 3 years or so. I hope they pay us back for beating us by taking it to the last game, they can do it. But KU flopped the end of that game, right after that brief series to get us up by 5.

But whatever, it happens. Baylor had a great first half.

BorderRat 9 years ago

Glad I won't have to waste time tonight watching it. Now I can watch my other favorite team (Colorado Avalanche) play like crap.

maxcrabb 9 years ago

Hard loss to stomach, but I'm not worried about it.

Anything can happen now.

IchabodWU 9 years ago

Baylor had all the incentive to win--it's their only chance of getting into the NCAA tournament.

Maybe this is KU's "B" team this year. Glad they got the loss out of the way today, rather than next week!

fabian_zimbabwe 9 years ago

Maybe this is KU's “B” team this year. Glad they got the loss out of the way today, rather than next week!<<

True, but I'd just as soon not face Binghamton. Go Jayhawks!

TheOriginalCA 9 years ago

I jokingly remarked that KU could have as few as 2 games remaining.. WOW.. now we could have as few as 1 remaining. Not to sound half empty though. You have got to bring it this time of year or you will be home on the outside looking in.

fuel_for_the_fire 9 years ago

All you Self lovers can enjoy watching K State and MU the rest of the weekend…..

I enjoyed watching K-State make 30% of their shots.

ObiWan 9 years ago

Come on people. Those that are bashing Bill Self are fools that clearly haven't watched the team grow this season. And as for Sherron...I wouldn't have minded a pass or two on that posession, but who would you rather have shoot when we're down three? Sherron's our first option, period.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 9 years ago

"Justthefacts" has it accurately. They are young and inexperienced. They got lucky a few times this season. Like when they went to Norman with the OU's team "star" injured. They would probably have lost that one. And they would probably have lost to Texas without the "Phog" (like in Austin). In short, they are still a team that is "in process".

As for you wonks calling for Bill Self's head, well, nothing constructive can be said for you, this fellow has worked some very impressive results with this team. Get lost or go to Missouri.

kerplunkr 9 years ago

I'm sure a lot of people are upset about this one. I like Bill Self and I think he is a good coach. However, there are a few observations I would like to make. Sherron Collins is our most experienced player and is a junior. I think in the future we need to be looking at recruiting players who will stick around four years. Coach Self has had a lot of players make an early exit. So far we've lost Wright, Chalmers, Arthur, and Rush to the NBA, and many people predict Collins and maybe (but not likely) Aldrich will leave this year. KU is a legacy school. Although we have had an amazing season considering the loss of talent from 2008, I hate to think of KU being in a "rebuilding" year. We should always be good. Period.

I understand that a lot of kids want to jump to the NBA ASAP. Some have valid reasons for leaving early (monetary issues) and others want the fame and hype that comes with the territory. However, look at Roy Williams's Carolina team. Hansbrough, Ginyard, and Green are all seniors. I'm certain that Ellington and Lawson will finish out their senior years too. At Kansas Roy was able to keep players here a long time and he fielded competitive teams almost every year.

My main point being, I hope Self starts recruiting more players that are in it for the long haul. I hope John Wall passes us by because we don't need "one and done" players. If those are the types Self is interested in, I can guarantee KU will continue to be a "one and done" type of team come tournament time.

fuel_for_the_fire 9 years ago

Oh, and, lawrenceguy40 - you and I will talk again after the MU TT game.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha - go Texas Tech!!

riverdrifter 9 years ago

Now you can all join me in what I do each and every year: I_G_N_O_R_E the piece of crap that is the Big 12 tournament. A collosal waste of time and effort that should junked. Two extra days of rest and preparation for what really matters is what the Jayhawks get. Good.

notajayhawk 9 years ago

fabian_zimbabwe (Anonymous) says…

"True, but I'd just as soon not face Binghamton."

It only applies to two-syllable team names beginning with 'B'. (Better hope they don't end up facing Butler in the big dance.)

Bubarubu 9 years ago

Sherron's not going anywhere after this year. He'll declare for the draft, file his paperwork, do some workouts, etc. and then come back when he's told he won't go any higher than the mid-second round this year. He'll do the smart thing, not hire an agent, pull his name out, and come back next year when he can look like a full-on PG, distributing the ball to guys who know what to do with it.

Agenda for the tournament: keep the twins out of foul trouble, remember how to shoot 50%, get better offensive spacing (stuff was breaking down in the last seven minutes today) and work on perimeter D. Tech and Baylor both opened their games incredibly hot and both games were winnable. If we could shut down long-range shooting in the first five minutes and score from anywhere but under the basket at the same time, we'd be looking forward to another game tomorrow.

lawrencefan 9 years ago

lawrenceguy40, you undoubtedly spoke similarly of Roy Williams when he was at KU. No matter that Self has the best win-loss percentage among KU coaches. No matter his teams' success as consistent Big-12 conference champions. There's really no point in bringing up the program's success last year, as I'm certain in your mind that was a heaven-willed fluke. Self's teams lose on occasion; they just happen to lose dramatically less often than most other programs. I don't doubt that you bleed crimson and blue, but it's quite apparent you've bled so much you've lost the ability to think clearly. Perhaps I've missed something, but I believe the record shows KU winning year after year, pretty much since the '83-'84 season, with no let-up since Self has been head coach.

jaywalker 9 years ago

"Kerplunkr - with the exception of the “good coach” statement, I agree with everything you wrote."

Only a complete moron or the ultimate jackass would hit send on that post. Yeah, 5 straight conference titles AND a national championship AND national COACH of the year this season.............uh huh. Self is a bad coach.

kerplunkr, I'm not a fan of one-and-doner's either, but we haven't had one yet. Recruiting kids good enough to make the leap to the NBA after a couple/three seasons is NOT a bad thing, and any program that's gonna try to 'weed out' the best talent for lesser talent that stays 4 years isn't going to be very successful. Coach Self knows what he's doing and will be able to mold any team together. Don't sweat players leaving early, it's become the New Order over the last 15 years. Look at the programs that keep everyone for their full eligibility: Colorado, Nebraska, San Diego St., Creighton............No thanks. We'll go after the best and compete with the best.

kerplunkr 9 years ago


I'm not saying we need to weed out the best talent for lesser talent. I want Kansas to keep good, experienced players around so that we can field great teams year after year. If Self had convinced Rush, Arthur, and Chalmers to stick around after the 2008 victory, I would've been ecstatic. Case and point, the talent stuck around for Billy Donovan at Florida after the 2006 championship. I wonder what Donovan said to those kids at Florida before they repeated? Perhaps Self can takes notes from him.

The same goes for Roy Williams when he was at Kansas and now at UNC. See my earlier post and re-read the names of the players playing as juniors and seniors. If Rush hadn't blown out his knee in the summer of 2007, he'd be a second year player in the NBA and we would be without a national championship. We need kids for a longer haul than what we've been getting.

Going back to your talent comment, I'd take Russell Robinson over John Wall any day of the week. Staying in college and playing a fruitful career is worth more to me as a KU fan. That being said, players like Darrell Arthur and Julian Wright don't deserve to have their jerseys hang from the rafters at AFH if they only play a year or two. If their jerseys do happen to make it up there one day, it will be truly sad. Will we even remember Darnell Jackson, Jeff Boschee, or Keith Langford?

jonas_opines 9 years ago

"I hope we can say I was wrong, but I doubt it."

Yes, congratulations. When you have hopelessly and unrealistically high expectations on what makes a a good coach, such as never ever ever never losing ever, then eventually you will be able to congratulate yourself on being right about coaches not having what it takes to meet your expectations. For the rest of us, though, two things will remain apparent.

  1. You will not have the option to do better yourself, and would not if you did.

  2. No one who makes these decisions will listen to you, and if they did, they would say "Wow, this guy has ignorantly unrealistic expectations!" and that would be it.

jaywalker 9 years ago


I mean no offense, but if you don't recruit the players that have the possibility to make the jump to the NBA early, you ARE weeding out the best for the lesser. It's a pretty simple correlation. "If Self had convinced Rush, Arthur, and Chalmers to stick around after the 2008 victory,...." C'mon man. IF Smith had convinced Jordan.........IF Buckner hadn't ole'd that grounder......IF Lewinski hadn't blabbed to Tripp...... I mean, seriously? If you think Donavan had some sort of magical words he spoke to those guys and that's what made them stay you might be a tad delusional. Ever been to UF? Walk across that campus once....I'm not sure I'd EVER leave. It's like you died and went to hot blonde heaven. Noah's got family money, the payday wasn't a motivator. Brewer went from mid-second to mid-first round by staying. Horford wasn't ready and moved into the lottery by staying. Trust me, Self doesn't need to take notes from the guy who's probably gonna miss the tourney for the second straight year. Not only that, some of those guys still left early, they weren't all seniors. "We need kids for a longer haul than what we've been getting" Two sophs left early and two juniors left early under Self. That ain't that bad and we've got a national championship from it. Brother, ALL fans want their guys to stick around... ALL of 'em. Know what? That's a YOU issue, it's jealousy and/or it's selfish, and before you reply that you're neither let me remind you your words: "Staying in college and playing a fruitful career is worth more to me as a KU fan." More to you? How 'bout what they want to do with their life? And you ask any fan anywhere if they'd like to keep their players for four years and get no championship or take our recent situation; 99.9% would trade in a heartbeat. Wright will never have his jersey in the rafters, and I doubt Arthur will either. I believe that honor is reserved for All-Americans or exceptional careers like Hinrich. I loved having Robinson around and like I said, I'm not gonna be bummed if Wall doesn't come to KU 'cuz I don't care to start a one-and-done windmill like Memphis has. But the days of nothing but 4 year players is pretty much over for the best of the best programs. Ya better learn to deal with it, it ain't changin' at KU.

P.S. I don't wanna be like Memphis, but I will say this: they've already got the #2 (Xavier Henry) and #3 (Demarcus Cousins) for next year, and it's recently been reported that both Wall (the #1) and Stephenson (# 5) are leaning towards Memphis. That would be the greatest recruiting class of ALL time for any school, and more exciting than even Michigan's Fab Five. They may all be one and doners, but that would be one hell of a season to watch, and when it's all said and done, this is entertainment.

jaywalker 9 years ago

"We should be looking for a new coach!"

"We"? You're no fan of the program, pal, quit masquerading.

kerplunkr 9 years ago


Wow, talk about hyperbole, but you do make some good points. However, "you ask any fan anywhere if they'd like to keep their players for four years and get no championship or take our recent situation; 99.9% would trade in a heartbeat." How about win a championship, keep those players for four years, and win consecutive championships? Your hypotheticals are valid, but just as flawed as mine. However, I think UCLA did win 7 consecutive titles.

I understand that times are changing. In fact, I believe I said the following: "I understand that a lot of kids want to jump to the NBA asap. Some have valid reasons for leaving early (monetary issues) and others want the fame and hype that comes with the territory." In terms of you saying I'm jealous or selfish, I'm just selfish. I'm selfish in wanting to have a quality basketball program all of the time (which Jayhawk fan wouldn't be guilty of that?). My main point was that our program would benefit from quality players deciding to stay in college. Would you disagree with this statement?

"How 'bout what they want to do with their life?" If players want to leave after a year, two, or three and head to the NBA, that is their prerogative. By playing multiple campaigns at KU, careers and draft status can be improved, experience can be earned, and an education provided. Would it really be that BAD of a thing for players to stay an extra year or two in college? Then again, as we have both stated, the mentality of some college hoops players is to get into the NBA. I would be willing to bet that the remaining fraction have other aspirations besides playing pro-ball. Maybe those players that dream of the NBA don't realize their other aspirations. I certainly had no idea what I wanted to do with my life until I started working after college. Now I'm back in school pursuing a career that I never dreamed of doing.

I hope my depth of thought hasn't skewed the conversation. I just don't see how more years in school = a loss, unless these kids' families really are hurting for money. The way I see it, both parties benefit. The success of the program is proportional to the success of the players. Success comes from practice, talent, and experience. Agreed?

P.S. I would hope you're not a Memphis fan! I wouldn't mind seeing a team of one-and-done's either, but if they ever played KU, I sure wouldn't want us to look as inadequate as we looked today.

jaywalker 9 years ago

"How about win a championship, keep those players for four years, and win consecutive championships? Your hypotheticals are valid, but just as flawed as mine. However, I think UCLA did win 7 consecutive titles."

UCLA's run was 35 years ago and UF (I think) is the only repeat winner since. It's not a likely scenario, whether the players remain or not. Times and players are much different. I did not mean to refer to you specifically as selfish, but just depict that as the common sentiment. I want every player to stick for 4, too. I never wanted to see Wright, Chalmers et al. go early, same as any other fan. We know how good they are, we wanna see 'em grow and continue success with the program. And I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate any of our former players, but I'll take two years of Wright versus four years of B.J. Williams and three years of Chalmers versus four of T.J. Pugh. Thing is, we really never have to make that distinction. The team will never consist soley of short timers, we'll always have the Russell Robinson's and Boschee's. And believe me, as to your scenario of guy's staying in school for the education or for more experience, believe me, I'd love it. But mainly 'cuz it would mean I get to watch 'em in our jersey longer. When guys started leaving early I hated it, but again, that's just the way it is now.

Look, I get where you're coming from. Maybe our only real difference here is that I've come to grips with the reality of the climate of recruiting already. I'd love the 'old days' when it was frosh through senior year teammates. I remember when Baron Davis and Jason Kidd chose UCLA and Cal over KU and I was glad 'cuz I knew they'd only be in college for one year. But I want KU to be among the best just like you, and these days that means including players you might only have for a short time. But take heart, out of the class we had come in this year there's a really good chance they'll all be here for the full monty. The JC's only get two of course, but the twins, Taylor, and QT all look like four year guys. So there you go!

And no, not a Memphis fan, really not a Calipari fan at all.

jaywalker 9 years ago

For grammarians, I apologize for 'soley'. I think I've done that a few times lately, and it's 'solely'. Man, that bugs me.

jonas_opines 9 years ago

Arkansas was a repeat winner back in the 90's with Corliss Williamson and that big fat dude who could improbably shoot 3s with anybody. I don't believe there are any others.

Regardless, why do we need to be so greedy?

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