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Archive for Sunday, September 16, 2007

Man hospitalized after fight at Club Axis

September 16, 2007

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Lawrence police are investigating an early morning fight at a central Lawrence nightclub where at least one person was injured.

Sgt. William Cory, a police spokesman, said a 23-year-old man was taken to Lawrence Memorial Hospital and later flown to Kansas University Hospital in Kansas City, Kan.

Police were called to the fight around 1 a.m. today in the parking lot of Club Axis, 821 Iowa.

Officers are still investigating and have not released much information, but Cory said the fight was between "a patron and possibly bar employees."

The injured man was believed to be a patron, Cory said.

Police have made no arrests.

Officers have responded to trouble at the nightclub a couple of different times earlier this year.

A Kansas City, Kan., man and a Lawrence man were arrested and charged with hitting and kicking a man found outside on May 13.

A Lawrence man was arrested April 28 for reckless driving and other charges when two police officers had to jump out of the way of his vehicle as it left the nightclub's parking lot. Officers had ordered the man to leave the parking lot.

Club Axis opened earlier this year. It is on the site of the former Moon Bar, where former Kansas University basketball player J.R. Giddens was cut in a melee outside the building in May 2005.

Comments

camper 7 years, 3 months ago

I liked this place better when it had pancakes and coffee. Damm.

riverrat2 7 years, 3 months ago

Does LMH check your wallet for an insurance card before they call the very expensive flight for life or what? Doesn't a town with nearly 100,000 pop. have any qualified surgeon's? What is up with always taking people to KU Med?

matahari 7 years, 3 months ago

Oh, and if a crime had happened at Bottleneck or Tellers or at any business, bar or not, would the crime history of the locale be listed? Perhaps the lattitude longitude of this location has a bad axis and the site should be cleared of all businesses forever? Journalists and their neverending quest to bring out the sensationalism of recording a crime never cease to amaze me~!

And yes, LMH is very selective about who they treat and yes, they do check your wallet for insurance cards before proceeding with anything~ feel better now?

b_asinbeer 7 years, 3 months ago

I remember many fights at many different night clubs here in Lawrence. There were quite a few at 815, Brothers, Abe and Jakes, etc....Location has a lot to do with if LJWorld wants to print it or not.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 7 years, 3 months ago

"Dude, we should open a bar! It would be so cool. We'd be living large."

Not everyone who likes bars should own one.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

If this incident should come to court, the police report will note that independent witnesses at the scene verified that the female friends of the injured man instigated this fight by slapping the doorman. This triggered an immediately escalatory and violent response from the man and his male friend which the security staff responded to with an appropriate level of force to subdue the suspects until the police arrived.

jennifermarti 7 years, 3 months ago

The new Last Call! This place has been trouble from the beginning.

TtownKUlivin 7 years, 3 months ago

So, some girls slap a doorman and the employers decide to beat up on the females' guy friend? I must be missing something.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I apologize for any confusion in my last post. One of the two suspects assaulted the door man immediately after, and potentially as a result of, the girl slapping the door man. According to several non-staff witnesses at the scene, with the obvious exception of the suspects' three female friends, this was the case.

riverrat2 7 years, 3 months ago

Matahari says:

"LMH is very selective about who they treat and yes, they do check your wallet for insurance cards before proceeding with anything~ feel better now?"

Nope. Not really. Do you work there?

doc1 7 years, 3 months ago

Like others said. The new last call. A bad place to be.

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

I believe it was 8 bar employees to 2 men. I thought door men were to prevent fights from happening not start them. Is it ok to beat 2 men until one is getting treated with brain injuries. I know that the bar employees were beating the two men. I do not think is ok under any circumstance to have 8 men on 2. I also think that it is crazy that a doorman can throw a woman on the ground. The man that is now in ICU has a family now he is laying in a hospital bed because they thought is would be ok to kick him when he was down on the ground.

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

A woman did not smack a bouncer she said a smart remark with her back turned from him. It is pathetic that boucers can say what they want and get away with this kind violence. The bouncers of club axis beat the two men and the whole time all the men were doing is trying to leave. I believe this bar should be shut down forever. What bar owner would allow his employees to be so violent. Not only is one man in ICU but the other victim has shoe prints on his chest from being kicked by several bouncers. Is that the kind of restraint a bouncer should use after punching the victim in his face several times by more than one bouncer. I think club axis bouncers jumped the two men for no reason.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I would like to comment that the hospitalized suspect was not hit while on the ground. Once he had fallen to the ground I was the nearest person to him and I visually performed a threat inspection that involved no physical contact. His eyes were open, he seemed to have impacted primarily with the back of his skull which, judging by a small amount of blood at the point of impact, may be most directly related to his hospitalization. After the visual inspection he was deemed harmless by all employees and the other suspect had been subdued, ending the threat. The police report may contain allegations from the three female suspects that the bouncers hit this particular man while on the ground however I say, truly, look towards the unbiased eye witness statements from independent sources to exonerate the staff in a court of justice.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I would like to mention that the second suspect has a shoe print on his chest because he was being restrained in a position in which we could monitor him. I did not see how he was taken to the ground but I do know that he was given several verbal orders from the doorman to continue to lay back down (in my opinion, given this situation this also implies that he should not resist). Additionally, I also gave a singular verbal command to this suspect to lay back down.

One may ask why it is so important to retain suspect control in such a situation instead of letting them leave. I say to this that in volatile tactical situations, which this developed in to, subjects who have expressed physical violence cannot be allowed to leave in order to return with potentially higher levels of retaliatory strength. This applies at any business, regardless of frequency. In this situation, once the fighting had begun we cannot simply allow the suspects to stroll off. On the legal side of things, it is necessary to detain suspects for the police so that a proper police report may be filed and names collected.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

It is simply not the case that the bouncers can say whatever they want and get away. The police questioned each of the staff involved individually to corroborate what had occurred. Certainly everyone involved, suspects and their friends alike, were heavily adrenalized and this may lead to incoherence in statements. It is difficult in a situation perceived as dangerous to avoid tunnel vision. I may understand this to be the reason why the secondary female suspect would make an allegation that she had not instigated this situation, however independent observers have stated to the police that she had, indeed, started this. These are non-employees we are speaking about who have testified on behalf to the professionalism of our security staff.

When this same girl attempted to argue with the police, when she started screaming about her entire family being attorneys, making legal threats to the staff and being belligerent towards the police, one of the police officers told her that she is lucky she has not yet been charged with battery (yet). He also stated (and I have reiterated) that independent witnesses verified the claims that she had struck the door man first.

Now, read carefully because I cannot stress this any more, that our bouncers did not unilaterally decide to fight the suspects simply because a girl, whom we could not even positively relate to them, decided to hit us. To me, from my perspective, there is some grey area here because I did not see the initial blows from the suspect, but according to the other doormen at the scene who witnessed (and received) the punches, they struck first. I am confident that the witness accounts of this situation will also testify to the same.

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

The suspect that got flown to kansas city had more than a small amount of blood on the concrete the bouncers continued to be violent towards him until a female called the police. Why would the other male leave a scene of a crime where he was a victim. The bouncers were not restraining him they were kicking him in the chest. I do not understand why bouncers think that it takes that much violence to restrain a person. Punching someone several times is restraining? The victim that got flown to kansas city has more than a cut on his head. He is in ICU being treated for blood on his brain that is not going away. If there was just a little pool of blood why did the bouncers wash it away quickly? Both victims have several bruises and cuts on their face from being punched several times and both victims did not want to fight back. From the beginning of the incident the victims were trying to leave the bar and not have any violence. I just want the family of the victims to know that my prayers are with them. I hope that he recovers from his injuries.

chemegirlie 7 years, 3 months ago

My dad always told me:

"There are two sides to every story. The truth lies somewhere in the middle."

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I do not wish violence upon any of these men, nor do I glamorize the actions of my or the rest of our staff. We felt the measures we took were necessary and that they would hold up in court. As far as I saw, the bouncer that had his foot on the second suspect's chest was restraining him, but I am open to alternative interpretations. Allow me to reiterate that it is necessary to subdue all violent suspects in such a manner that we may monitor them for activity that may be injurious to us. This means the suspect cannot be allowed to stand up with his hands in his pockets or obtain an improvised environmental weapon. He was justly perceived as dangerous and we subdued him appropriately.

As for the blood on the concrete, we washed it off after given permission by the police officers on the scene. We were still open for business at this time and it was unthinkable that we should leave any amount of blood on the pavement.

Fatty_McButterpants 7 years, 3 months ago

Tutulee...you sound like one of those wannabe-cop's from that militaristic security company here in town. It's well known that they like to employ rather heavy-handed "suspect restraint". Your attempts to sound professional, and use big words, doesn't change the fact that you sound like you're trying to plead your way out of a situation that likely could have been avoided.

It's a sad fact of life that the vast majority of doormen receive absolutely zero training on things like crowd control, threat escalation, physical restraint of violent patrons, legal issues (like kicking someone in the head), and the realities of fighting - a kick to the head ain't like the movies. People don't usually just shrug it off.

ralphralph 7 years, 3 months ago

I would imagine everybody is going to get their chance to testify, probably in several court cases, both criminal and civil. Can't we all just get along?

somebodynew 7 years, 3 months ago

I wasn't there (and never will be) but no matter which side you are on - - it should give a message to everyone who goes there. Don't f*** with the "doormen"

Will it stand up in court ?? That remains to be seen. But I think if you go there and decide to be a bada** (or let your girl do it for you) - you will pay a price.

Might not be right, but that is life at a "thug bar". (Which it seems this is becoming.)

misseve 7 years, 3 months ago

I remember when it was the Moon Bar and i worked answering calls for Mil-Spec. i would have to send those guys out there at least once a week especially on the weekends. That place is cursed as a "nightclub". As far as LMH i rather go somewhere else and have the ER quacks work on me...

misseve 7 years, 3 months ago

and the correct thing is there are 3 (three) sides to every story Side A, Side B and the truth......

monkeywrench1969 7 years, 3 months ago

Tutu,

If you are so big on what you can and can't do to a person who is fighting your then you should know if you have eight guys on two guysthat means you can restrain the person with less punching and kicking and more grabbing and restraining. One guy for each arm or leg. I am also assuming that the majority of the doormen were huge and will have to answer to for their actions. What you seem to forget is your size will be compared to the suspects; sizes and they will ask you what they ask and scrutinize the cops for...did they use excessive force or was it enough for the situation.

Most of the stories I have read concerning the cops it is usually two or three fighting with one guy (Barring the Rodney King thing and some of the more publicized acts from all over the US- Hey wait this sounds a lot like....HMMMM)

torcia 7 years, 3 months ago

In College when I played football there were a number of my teammates who bounced. My Coach always told them, "Bouncing is for guys too stupid to get another job." Not sure in this case who is functioning at a lower level...someone who would go to club Axis or someone who would bounce there

newsomebody 7 years, 3 months ago

The two door man evolved in the physical restraining of the two patrons's both where hurt. One had bruises on his face and a cut ear, as well as bruises on the back left side of his head. The other bouncer received a huge gash on top of his hand. That bouncer is also married with four children. The bouncer's used force that was required to stop the patron's and protect anyone else from getting hurt. These two people had never been to Axis and tried to cut in line and where refused entry. The bouncer's asked them to go back to the end of the line and obviously one thing led to another. As for "eight on two", there where only three bouncers that made physical contract to restrain them. And there where only four bouncer's out side at the time. One in the parking lot, three at the front door. Two restrained the people, one went inside to get help, and the other was holding people back. When the other bouncer's got out side, it was over. No one stomped on them when the patron was on the ground, and the main bouncer involved was the first call received by the police. The patron with the head injury was hurt on the back side of his head and it was caused from the concrete when he fell. As for the other patron, he had ripped his button shirt open at the beginning leaving just his skin. After he shopped attacking the bouncer, he was restrained and no other physical harm came to him. So how there where foot prints on the front of his shirt is hard to imagine since he never was on the ground. I was the second person to the patron after he hit the ground. The 1st being his girlfriend and the second being me. The bouncer had already dialed the Lawrence police dept. The man was awake the whole time I was there and was trying to get up to leave. He was held down by me, his girlfriend, and another employee held his head to keep his neck still encase of injury.

newsomebody 7 years, 3 months ago

I do hope that everyone is okay after this, patrons and bar employees. I believe liquor had a little to do with the patrons choices. I do not wish any harm to any one that work's or any patron that goes to Axis. As for Axis being the new Last call I don't think that seam's to be fair. The Saturday before there was a huge braw outside of the Hawk, the week before that on at the Ranch, There's been several fight's at Brother's, ABE and JAKE's ect. over the past year. No matter what bar you go to, liquor clouds the judgment of patron's and there choices. That's why all these bar's hire staff to help stop situation's from happening. Some time's force has to be taken. Axis has had three problems in over six month's compared to as one person said once or twice a week as the Moon Bar. There are several bar's in Lawrence that have problem's every week (not including Last Call) and they do the best possible to stop them from happening. All three of Axis's "troubled nights" have happened in the parking lot and not inside the club. Axis refuses service to anyone who they believe that may cause harm to other's or are extremely drunk. Abe &Jakes', Brother's, Axis, Ranch, The Hawk, Jetlag, The Wheel, and the Phogy Dog have all had problems and over all have done a great job of having safe place's for patron's to come and have fun.

tangential_reasoners_anonymous 7 years, 3 months ago

"... and the correct thing is there are 3 (three) sides to every story Side A, Side B and the truth"

hmm... locating the truth through triangulation... but if it's the "third" side, then wouldn't that make it only hypotenthetical...?

Alia Ahmed 7 years, 3 months ago

I also disagree with the comments about LMH, the quality of care given and the implication that they transfer patients unnecessarily if they don't have insurance. There are federal regulations about treating patients regardless of their ability to pay. When transferring a patient, there has to be an accepting physician at the receiving facility who agrees the risks of transfer are outweighed by the benefits the patient will likely receive. LMH does not have the capability to perform neurosurgery. If this was your family member, you would want them to be at a facility that could perform neurosurgery if it became necessary. Secondly the physicians at the ER at board certified emergency room physicians. I know many armchair physicians that write negative things about LMH on this forum should thank there lucky stars if they need to be treated in an emergency situation by any of these physicians. Once you are stabilized, a patient can certainly request a transfer to another facility. Alsi, it seems unwise for anyone involved in this particular situation to document their "perception" of the events on this forum. You have the right to remain silent and probably should heed that advice.

lawrencechick 7 years, 3 months ago

"Does LMH check your wallet for an insurance card before they call the very expensive flight for life or what? Doesn't a town with nearly 100,000 pop. have any qualified surgeon's? What is up with always taking people to KU Med?"

Why would you keep someone with a major head trauma if you are not a trauma center? To be a trauma center you have to have a neurosurgeon 24/7. You don't need that in a town of 100,000 when there is one 30 miles away.

Sigmund 7 years, 3 months ago

Club Axis is going to be very, very bad news. It's management and security aren't nearly as professional as The Last Call. Trust me, there will be much, much, more to come from this place, its' owners, and its' management. It won't be pretty.

Sigmund 7 years, 3 months ago

BTW lawrencechick is precisely correct. Trauma Centers are very expensive. Much more cost effective to use helicopters with trained crews to fly them into KC. Neurosurgeons do not grow on trees and staffing them 24/7 only makes sense if you can keep them busy.

hawklet21 7 years, 3 months ago

I cannot believe the amount of assumptions that people make on these forums. Of course, many of the doormen in college town bars are young men hired simply for their size and intimidation factor. I know, and used to live with, one of the managers at Axis and he is not a huge guy, just tall, and he would never instigate a fight for the hell of it. Why would you want to start fights at a nightclub that you helped to get off the ground? Especially one that would be trying to shed the image left behind by the Moon Bar? And I also know one of the doormen who was most likely working that night, and he is a near-college graduate, extremely intelligent, and they are both EAGLE scouts for crying out loud. Neither of those boys are hot-headed or stupid. Why not blame the drunkies who are trying to get IN to the club at what, 1 a.m.? You can't tell me that they were sober.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I would like to clarify that the situation was nothing like a eight on two person brawl. As far as I saw, one of the bouncers engaged the pony-tailed suspect, fought and took him to the ground. He is also the same person that restrained him to the ground. My manager was the one who had been hit by the first suspect and he engaged him. While they were trading blows I also entered the fight which immediately preceded the suspect being knocked out. There was no continuation of violence towards this person once he was on the ground. The total number of bouncers that actually fought numbered to three.

As with any place else, additional security arrived shortly after word of the incident spread to ensure the situation was seen through, perhaps giving people the belief that a small army of bouncers materialized out of nowhere and continued to beat the two suspects, which is independently verified to be untrue.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I hope that I have been able to clarify the situation as best as I could in regards to what I saw and the degree of my involvement. Surely, the "patrons" could have taken some personal responsibility for their actions. Surely, the staff could have reacted in a more efficient manner. But in defense of my manager, and I hope everyone may at least sympathize, it is very difficult to defend oneself, much less philosophize about what others might think of you, when being hit repeatedly in the head by some stranger you had just met five second ago. My main regret about this entire situation is that I was unable to de-escalate this situation before it began.

I have thus far tried to avoid responding to personal attacks or derogatory comments regarding my job. I will say this much, however. I am 180 lbs, 5'7" and the smallest person on the bouncing staff by far, which is why I am posted at the door. I am a 21 year old psychology major here at KU. I strongly believe that the staff and I were in the right that night, even while I regret the situation even occurred. These beliefs are not incompatible with each other. Unfortunately, I cannot spend any more time on this forum answering allegations against myself, the bouncing staff, the business, or even speculate on things I did not directly witness. To spend more of my time doing this would jeopardize the academic reason for me being here. I believe the relevant circumstantial questions concerning what happened (not necessarily why they happened) have been answered. For more information concerning this incident please contact the office of the District Attorney or the Lawrence Police Department. My police statement, along with others, may be available soon from either of these offices.

Good bye.

Adrienne Sanders 7 years, 3 months ago

I would just like to mention, for all of you who like to freak out about such things, that there was a large rap show on Friday at the Granada, and no violence associated with that.

sparemethebs 7 years, 3 months ago

Tutulle is sounds like to me that your story is one from some one that was to close to the whole thing u seem to be to mixed up in the whole thing to just be some one that was in the wrong place at the wrong time or just nosey there is no way for no reason that a bouncer should be able to leave a foot print on no one unless that person is tryin to leave a print in the bouncers chest THEY are NOT the POLICE iam from topeka and most bouncers there are trained i mean really trained so they dont have to go as far as put u in icu to restrain u and another thing if that couple of men were to come back and make the odds in there favor then what would u say not coo right?

sparemethebs 7 years, 3 months ago

Point blank if it takes eight men to handle two men that were much smaller then the 8 men need to get a new job and leave the bouncer jobs to those who are trained to handle better THEY ARE NOT THE POLICE maybe want to be or wish to be one day but NOT

newsomebody 7 years, 3 months ago

If a person is getting attacked and defends him self i believe that is self defence. If he's working as a bouncer he must protect him self first before he can protect any one else. Yes, two of the bouncer's envolved are Eagle Scouts and are very cool headed. They are both quiet and keep to them selves out side of work. A patron should never attack an employee of any business. If there would of been eight bouncers beating on them as people above listed, then i believe both men would of been extremely hurt. Yes, bouncers should not start fights. But there are patrons who are able to handle them selves very well and sometimes additional force is nessecary. Taking three punches to the head before taking it to the next level is very cool headed and a pretty good job of trying to calm the situation down without violence. The Granada also has had shooting's outside of there club, a stabbing, and many fights in the past couple of years. If any bar has 8-12 police officers out side of there establishment, i hope there isn't any problem's with a rap concert held there. Axis has the least number of fights of major bar's since opening. Less than brothers, the hawk, the ranch, and the Granada. Yes, moon bar had problems every week. With that reputaion before Axis and there only be three problems since opening, i think that is a huge emprovement over the Moon Bar and the Last Call. The police report will state the truth of what happened.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

Just so you know, the people who the bouncer's say they were "restraining" were never in the bar. They never went in because the bouncer at the door was rude to them and they decided to leave...in the middle of leaving the bouncer's first grabbed one of the girls arms and the 2 men with them turned around to see what was happening, asked why they were holding on to the girl and about 10 or more bouncer's just swormed the 2 guys and starting hitting them. The whole time one of the guys was saying, "Just let us leave." They were both kicked while they were down. Even if the men did start it, which they did not, there is no way the bouncer's had a right to kick them while they were down. They threw one of the girls to the ground. One man left with a busted swollen lip and foot prints on his chest and face and the other left in an ambulance to later find out he had bruising of his brain and internal bleeding in his brain. He was flown to KU med. And by the way, one of the females asked to press charges on the bouncers and the cops did nothing. They didn't even take a full police report from any of the victims and arrested no one. And that is exactly what these people are, victims. They did nothing to provoke the bouncers. All I can say is the bouncers' have to be pyschotic to do this to someone, they could've killed both victims, they need to be punished. And you better believe that they will have their day in court.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

The reason the whole thing started was because one of the bouncers was being very rude and a girl said a rude comment back to him. She was walking away before he even touched her, then he grabbed her and threw her to the ground. What man wouldn't help a girl when another man hurts her and even then they were just trying to help her get up and go. The bouncers were the first to start fighting. I am not saying that all the bouncers were acting unprofessional but there were some that were, but it still made the situation hard when there are some bouncers restraining a man and then other ones punching him in the face.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

offtotheright dear, doing your job is to beat the crap out of someone who does nothing and is leaving? They were LEAVING when the bouncers did this!

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

And whoever heard of restraining someone by holding them with your foot??? That just makes NO sense at all!

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

Everyone keeps bringing up last call. What do they have to do with anything. You never hear stories like this about their bouncers and they actually have people that they would have to really fight off to keep under control. They actually know how to do their job, most of the bouncers at last call have been bouncers for a long time and know how to handle situations. Keep in mind the victims from the other night had never been to Axis before and were not the typical type of persons that would normally go there they thought the bar was totally different. Never go to a bar without getting references first!

Jaminrawk 7 years, 3 months ago

If you have ever seen that place after people are let out, it's a zoo. People stand in the middle of 9th Street talking to their friends in their cars. Axis is no better than the Moon Bar. Tear that building down, it's cursed. Don't you think if your club requires MILSPEC that you almost expect violence? Unfortunatley, it's always people from out of town that seem to be getting into fights at these places probably because they can't get into any clubs in Topeka or Westport.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

I do not think that the bouncers were just trying to control a bunch of drunk people. When several bouncers are punching some one over and over is not crowd control. I do not understand how anyone could justify the bouncers actions when one man got flown to KU Med center. I am sure anyone on here saying that it is what the victims deserve they would think twice if it happend to them.

trinity 7 years, 3 months ago

solution, simple. close the bar dealio there&turn it in to a pancake house again. problem solved! :) who can be antagonistic, pugilistic, or just downright mean&ornrey when there's fresh hot pancakes to be had? hmm? anyone?

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

If the bouncers' knew what they did was okay, why did they start taking their hats off and changing shirts as if not to be identified. You guys know who you are and know what you did was wrong. You could've killed these guys over what? Your ego? Because the girl said f you and f your bar were leaving? Just know that one of the guys you did this to has 2 young children at home. I hope your very proud of yourself, protecting the public? I don't think so.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

You know what I'm done with this stupid internet comment page...We will let the courts decide who's guilty.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

One more thing before I go...The police did nothing, probably because they are paid or something. What if he would've died, he very well could have. The police didn't even conduct a proper investigation and held no one for questioning! They allowed the bouncers to wash away the man's blood and didn't even take a picture. Don't you feel safe in this town? You can't even count on the cops to help you when you are in trouble. They will turn the other cheek. Why?

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

Get a life offtotheright, they were at home with their grandmother, and the bouncers' are the reason any of this happened. Do you really think he would have tried to take on 10 or more bouncers? You are probably one of them that did this to him...instead of trying to defend yourself why do don't you just admit you were wrong.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

offtotheright- what is wrong with you to say someone deserves something like that. Alot of people have children and go out sometimes. There is nothing illegal about cussing or drinking. And if that man was drunk and his girl was foul mouthed does that mean he deserves to be beat like that.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

Anyone who is on here saying that anyone deserves to be hurt is just as bad as the people who did it. (you probably are the people who did it) but that is sick nobody ever deserves to be hurt, ever! you can say whatever you want but you don't know the situation. I would never wish this on anyone, not even someone I hated.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

No one said that the bouncers shouldn't have been rude to the girl but I think throwing her on the ground was a little to far, then beating up the men with her because they try to help her up is really too far!

kneejerkreaction 7 years, 3 months ago

The bouncer's story and the eye witness story sound as if they were watching two separate instances. Something got out of hand if brain trauma is involved. You don't get brain trauma from being restrained unless "restraint" involves beating into submission. Sounds like excessive force.

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

I can not believe anyone would think that bouncers beating 2 men is right.

offtotheright People with children are allowed to go out to a bar and I don't think it is illegal to have a grandparent watch their grandchildren. They are victims and nobody deserves to get jumped like they did.

pissedinlawrence 7 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

dinolove101 7 years, 3 months ago

heres maybe an answer....if you dont like the bar then dont go....you cant always get what you want.

Emily Hadley 7 years, 3 months ago

I hope those involved in this investigation are taking notes from all these postings... and man, after trying to get through his posts, I am amazed that "newsomebody" spelled that much right. I guess torcia's coach was right.

This whole event really sucks. I have said before that I appreciate Last Call's setup, because they have a half-dozen bonded security guards (not bouncers) and metal detectors outside the bar. I have never seen any incidents right outside Last Call like the ones I have seen outside the Pool Room, L.A's, the Thai House, the Granada, and other clubs that rely solely on bouncers, usually only inside the club. I actually feel like Last Call is a safe place relative to its reputation, due to how professional their security is, but I would definitely never set foot in Axis. They should have had better security in place already.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

I said that I would refrain from commenting further on this issue, but there seems to be some confusion here that I feel as though I can address.

Let me clarify, if I haven't before, that I cannot speak for the perspectives of the other bouncers. I did not see exactly what had happened at the door that incited this entire incident, but I was told first hand that the door man (the manager) who was talking to the girl in question was hit twice in the face BEFORE he even touched her. What exactly happened next I'm not sure entirely sure.

As for the belief that ten or eight bouncers jumped two unsuspecting people, I don't believe this is true. The reason I believe this is because at the outset of the violence my manager, one other bouncer and I were the only people at the door. When there appeared to be a problem (but no violence yet) the other bouncer told me to go inside and get one other person. I immediately witnessed that voices rising and that there were only three of us outside so I went in the doorway and called one other bouncer. The new bouncer on the scene is the one who ended up eventually confronting the pony-tailed suspect.

Once the violence had subsided, as far as I knew, there were only five of us out there because the bouncer who was checking IDs had come out to help as well. Hopefully my account, as one of the five staff participants, sheds some more light on this situation. Clearly, if I were not involved and reading about a similar incident on a forum I would be suspicious of a bouncer's account of this incident, but I encourage all people to obtain as accurate information as possible from primary sources. It is easy and expected of ones in our situation to claim our treatment by the words of arm-chair speculators unfair, but comments and perspectives are important also and should be addressed.

And one more thing.

offtotheright, please refrain from speculating about the injured suspects family life. I am truthfully and legally at odds with this person and their party, but even among enemies (which I hope we are not) such speculation is considered rude and counterproductive to discovering the truth. Even I, as a participant in the event, am open to having my beliefs and perceptions shown to be wrong.

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

I sit here and read through all these posts and never have I read so much whiny crap. Everyone acts like this is the first time anyone has ever been hurt in at a Lawrence night club.... I have given LMH plenty of money for my trips to the hospital for stitches. The fights were for stupid reasons such as this... I never once started them always just seemed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The place where these fights occurred were at the main stream bars you all know very well, and I will let you know for one of them I was knocked down and kicked several times. And I will just let you all guess how many bouncers were there to break it up... Zero, my friends bounced the fight. This is just one person, me. Things happen anywhere there is alcohol involved, we all know this. And if you want to get drunk and feel 10 feet tall and bullet proof, go ahead. But I DO NOT suggest you do it some where there are actual bouncers, go somewhere that bouncers are there for the money not to help out!

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

I would like to conclude my only post with this, I am the person that held the guys head that was on the ground. I was stabilizing his head, because it was apparent to me that his head was ijuried. I talked to him and asked him to stay still and all he wanted was to get up and kept telling me "fk you man, let me the fk up." Not to mention the girl yelling in my face and ear leave him alone, and going on about her family and lawsuits. Glad she knew he was okay, apparently he wasn't. I did not see what happened, when I came to the scene the man was laying on his back on the ground, I assessed him. That's all, but I will say this, there is no bouncer that is employed with Club Axis that would just punch a patron, and start anything. They do what they can to prevent any problems. As for 8 bouncers jumping 2 guys, wow, not even close to true.... there was only one bouncer by the guy on the ground whose head I was holding, and 2 others right on front of him talking to guy with shirt ripped open. For all those who thinks it takes 8 people to cause a head injury, not so much, you hit your head just right on concrete its happening. And I don't feel like going back through all the posts but someone posted that no one deserves to be hurt. Maybe if you were punched in your ear and face a couple times, I bet you would probably want to stop the person doing it, by doing what you ask? By hitting back... Face it sweetheart, we do not live in a world of Lollipops and Candycanes.... All of Lawrence's night clubs will happily agree with this.... clubs serve liquor, liquor serves a trip to the E.R occasionally. So in closing once again, Club Axis is not to blame alone, no one got jumped by 8, no one grabbed a girl by the front door, no one through a girl down. Some guys thought they were to cool for the line, bouncers told them to go to back, they are rude to bouncers face, other guy blindsides the bouncer 2 or 3 times, he makes him stop by one blow. He hits concrete and hurts his head, happens to be pretty serious, but oh my god it's the securities fault. But what if the bouncer would have recieved an injury, wait he did he was bleeding out of his ear, and the other recieved stitches.... don't recall hearing anything about that, but you are right Axis is completely to blame, and the guys should have gotten right in without waiting. We should let anyone in with a ponytail and an completely open shirt. I'm sure Axis sends it apologies. Ridiculous. Point to drive home: DO NOT BE A DRUNK IDIOT, and good god stop whining, my friend didn't whine this much when he got shot outside of a bar on Mass. and he about bled to death!

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

yeah i did type that pretty fast, once again another wonderful critical person in the world, you help no one.....but I'm glad you got the point of my views on things...

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

piperflyer-could you contradict yourself anymore, at the very beginning you said you didn't see anything, so how can you tell what happened. The fight began from the girl being thrown on the ground. And the guy laying on the ground was unconsious for awhile, thats what caused everyone to back up from him, even the bouncers were scared, he had a pool of blood behind his head and wasn't even responding to his wife. Now once he came to maybe he did try to get up but was told to stay still. I've never seen someone bleeding like that before, then I saw people trying to yell in his face for some type of response, I honestly was more scared that night than I ever have been before in my life. I have never seen men beat like those two men were. Everyone can try to sugarcoat this as much as they want, I understand they have to protect themselves, but everyone there knows what the truth is, and what they did was not right! And another thing, why did some of the bouncers run inside the bar and change hats and shirts before the police got there if they had nothing to hide?

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

You forgot to tell where the bouncer received stitches didn't you! His hand, I wonder how that cut got there?

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

As for the man with the ponytail he was dressed very nicely going out that night. He got his shirt ripped off by the bouncers attacking him. I am sure he would not dress that nice and decide to go to a bar with his shirt wide open.

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

Well you guys are a little huffy about this, hmmmm, let's see I don't know of any bouncers changing clothes because to my knowledge they do not have a closet at club Axis, at least none that I know of. And yea I know about the pool of blood did you not read, I was holding the guys head and I had blood on me as well. Let's be honest are we going to make the decision of what really happened, I mean yeah this little forum occupies time and gives us a reason to gripe about he said she said stuff, but in the end we all know what really happened since all these stories are different..... WHAT'S THE TRUTH?

Crossfire 7 years, 3 months ago

An Axis Club doorman in a tutu slapped a girl and then did a high kick knocking an innocent patron to the ground and he bus' his head. Stanley Kubrick did a little ditty "Singing in the Rain" and all the bouncers danced away into the night. http://www.ballet.co.uk/images/kirov/nr_golden_age_football_teams_in_air_170.jpg http://www4.ncsu.edu/eos/users/c/ceknowle/public/LarryTribute/Larrygifimages/Ballet.gif ...clubbin' on the Kaw...

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

And tinkerbell, i didn't see anything but the guy on the ground, but i know the bouncers well enough to know that they are not just going to jump some guys for trying to cut line.... it takes a little more than that.... like starting something with the bouncers which i believed happened. I think to many people like to yell a little thing called "lawsuit" and forget why they got hurt in the first place. If i went and played in the middle of Iowa at 1:00am and get hit by a car, maybe I'll just sue the driver for playing in the road. Get me Tinky?

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

I also want to say that one of the victims is a Eagle Scout and was the designated drive.

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

As a close friend of PiperFlyer (and not wanting to go through the registering process), I find it quite amusing that all are claiming the bouncers of Axis to be "bad" and "overaggressive." Several have stated comments that the bouncers of Last Call are more trained and it seems no one has issues with the bouncers of The Ranch and Abe&Jake's. What's ironic about this is that almost all of Axis' bouncers were or even still are bouncers at The Ranch or Abe&Jakes. Brute force is used at all the bars to control unruly drunk patrons that will not listen to the bouncers. Many of my good friends that bounce at Last Call and The Ranch tape their knuckles in preparation of such an incident. I have seen first hand guys thrown out of The Ranch into the heaters outside and guys that have to be held down on the ground with a foot to their throat to keep them under control. I have seen girls carried and pushed out of all major bars in this town because they are too drunk and wouldn't stop creating an issue. However you don't and won't hear about these because they are "greek" or "major, established" bars. I don't necessarily believe that physical violence is the answer but sometimes it is for the betterment of the other patrons and the bar to do so. The crowd at Axis is extremely diverse and is not just "ghetto": there are many KU students both Greek and non that go there, there are many extremely wealthy professionals that you will also see there weekly, etc. The bartenders are all successful KU college graduates, or soon to be, who do this for fun and have no problem with the crowd and regulars that come to Axis week after week. It absolute drives me crazy the stereotypes that are placed on this bar (especially from those that have never even been there).

KansasGreek 7 years, 3 months ago

First of all, there are hardly any "extremely wealthy people" that are perminent residents of Lawrence, second of all, they most likely wouldnt be hanging out at Axis if they were. I believe that the clientelle of this establishment are entirely to blame. There is a reason why people trash talk this bar, the "Raunch" and Abe & Sketch. Enough said.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

piperflyer-you must be friends with the bouncers pretty well to know how they would handle theirselves in a situation like this so obviously you are going to say whatever they tell you happened. I honestly don't think all of them were at fault, there was one that was especially out of control, he seemed to be extra mad from the beginning before anything even came about. Obviously, some of the bouncers stayed somewhat calm or this probably would have been way worse. I don't think a girl getting "mouthy" with a bouncer is terms for him to throw her on the ground. Even if she did strike him, which she didn't, you would still think a bouncer that deals with drunk girls all the time would know how to handle that situation different. No one tried to cut in line the "mean" bouncer was just trying to prove his power. Honestly, I don't know what kind of people go to that bar, I'm not and have not said anything bad about the people who go there from what I understood it was kind of a college bar setting. No one has said anything about the other workers there either, they could all be great people but some of the bouncers really got out of control that night. I've seen bar fights before, I've seen bouncers have to get pretty rough with people before also, but this night they took it to far.

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

What about the bouncers B/A level? I have seen several bouncers working getting just as loaded as the patrons.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

I have been to the bar plenty of times and seen bouncers drinking, I'm sure that anyone is going to write down names and dates. I have seen the bartenders and waitresses drink just as much, I have worked in bars before and I have seen them do it from both sides, and a lot of them do it, and half of the time they are more drunk than the customers because they drink fast to hide it.

birdonawire 7 years, 3 months ago

As an EAGLE SCOUT and a bouncer for over a year, I can say that I have never felt the need to raise my fists to a bar patron. Even when they are drunk and belidgerent, or swinging at you, you should always be able to submit them, if you can't, you don't need to be employed in that position. Mabe you should learn to mix drinks or something. Honestly it is just a job. You can't take threats, looks, and name-calling personaly. When you do, however, you are just another mad person, not thinking about the job you are there to do, and stuff like this happens. Not to mention when you wear your uniform you are advertising the bar and stuff like this is bad advertisement. As far as women go, I have been kicked, punched, scrached, bit, and threatened by many women on the clock at the bar but it has never crossed my mind to hit or push them. Now, not to say that I havn't had to pick them up and carry them out, but there is no excuse for pushing a woman for ANY reason. I can't fathom a reason that they even felt the need to push a girl, even if they are in your face calling you every name under the sun, does it make you feel like a real man that you can punk a woman? Mabe that guy just needs to get out of the bar scene all together.

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

So KansasGreek.... you are trying to tell me there are no wealthy people in Lawrence. I take it you must be young and must never make it to the West side too often and apparently have never made it into Axis. KansasGreek, you say permanent residents...does this mean that your personal belief is that only Greek members bring wealth to Lawrence while attending KU? So many of the owners of some of the top restaurants and other establishments in Lawrence aren't wealthy? That even out-of-towners such as Chief's player Larry Johnson frequent Axis, is he not wealthy? Trust me when people are buying a 3 dollar drink, throwing down a 20, and saying keep the change... they aren't struggling.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

There seems to be some misunderstanding concerning the cause of the first suspect's injuries. This person was large and his other male friend involved was taller than any of the bouncing staff present. Regardless, when he was knocked out he fell backwards on to the concrete, which is, from where I stood (a foot away from him), what seemed to cause his injury. This diagnosis is merely speculation, but supported by the fact that nearly all, if not all, the blood loss was centralized at the back of his head. I maintained eye contact with the suspect from the point where he was hit in the face to when he contacted the ground and I failed to detect blood coming from anywhere else on his person.

It is unseemly that, between my manager and I, we injured this person to the point he is suffering from brain damage. My hypothesis is thus: he was hit in the head and dazed/knocked out and afterwards had the misfortune of falling backwards, striking the back of his skull on the concrete.

I would like to point out from my previous post that I was involved in the situation. My police statement, along with previous posts, will indicate that I struck the first suspect at least twice before he was knocked out by the manager. Eye witness testimony will state the same. This is nothing I am proud of, but is what happened.

firefly007 7 years, 3 months ago

It is pretty obvious that the victim that got life flighted was knocked to the ground by the bouncers attacking him. He was walking backwards trying to tell the bouncers they were leaving and several bouncers were punching him in the face multiple times. There are many pictures showing that he had been struck in the face several times. As for the other guy that was jumped as well there are other witnesses that will testify that he was telling the bouncers we were leaving. Did the bouncers care no they followed them and attacked punching and kicking the two men. A bouncers job is to make sure that the patrons leave with no problems not beat them so badly that they end up at Ku med center for bleeding on the brain. Also just because they were tall or big does not give ANY bouncer the right to attack them the way they did. They both were telling the bouncers they were leaving.

birdonawire 7 years, 3 months ago

This is for tutulee, Again, as a bouncer, I am 6'-3" and weigh in at 197 pounds. In this line of work there is always someone bigger than you, but if you have properly trained bouncers, not just some large hot-heads, it should not be a problem. If it is a problem, that is why you have multiple bouncers to help out. Regardless, a punch should not be thrown by any of the staff. I was the only bouncer employed on the weekends where I work, and was able to break up multiple person fights inside the bar without the fist. There is no excuse for what happened especially when it happened on the outside of the bar, where no innocent bar patrons were in danger. Also, I don't blame the two GENTELMEN for fighting back after being provoked by the bouncers. That is what happens when the staff looses their cool and sight of their job's duties.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

In my case, I will not deny that the suspects were leaving or that they were saying that they were leaving. I did not see or hear either having been only feet away, but because I am not omniscient I am open to alternative interpretations. I entered the fray only because I saw the first suspect fighting with my manager.

In my personal hindsight and humility I will say that the proper use of force needs to evaluated carefully in light of this incident to ensure that the other bouncers and I used proper judgment. I am open to the possibility that we may not have but I am also greatly biased to believe that we did.

I feel it is wholly appropriate for those people who witnessed this event to debate among themselves about what actually happened. I appreciate the input of all of these people, some who whole heartedly (and maybe blindly) believe in the actions of the staff and also the majority of those who would wish nothing but harm and misery upon us. As long as they are a primary source rather than a fountain of invective and hearsay then there is some truth they might offer to fill in the picture. But if a person enters this discussion with greater concern for arguing than for discovering the truth, all people, no matter their position on these matters, should be wary.

It is important, also, to distinguish the debate between what happened (a factual debate) and what should have happened (a value debate) and what ought to happen (a policy debate). I do not proclaim myself wise in my young age of 21, but I believe strongly that it is important to establish the facts of this situation before one moves to judgment about how it should have been handled and then to the consequences of those actions. Certainly, many of us on all sides (and I say all sides because every person is their own side) have already set in our minds the facts in order to pass judgment on another, unwilling to change our prescription and, consequently, unwilling to accept the possibility that our facts may be wrong.

It is without pride that I say to everyone, please remain open to the falsification of beliefs for they may not be founded upon sound facts! Honestly, I am trying to find the strength not to be a hypocrite and brace myself for the possibility that I was completely wrong about my assessments, wrong about my perceptions and as a result have to admit to myself that my actions should not have occurred. It is particularly difficult being a participant, but I have made an effort. I encourage everybody to do the same for the benefit of finding the truth.

tutulee 7 years, 3 months ago

birdonawire, I appreciate your level headed suggestion concerning what should have been done, given the weight of your experience. It goes without saying that we work at different places, but still must have some commonality in how we deal with such situations.

I agree with those people that claim that bouncers should not strike others. This is the ideal, and is actively striven for by me and the rest of the staff no matter how bad this particular situation may appear to others. Assuming this, I might philosophize that either there was a failure in discipline, a failure in training, that the situation was sloppy enough to fore go either or any combination of the aforementioned. Truly, this is speculative on my part and even for me make this consideration in private at this time would be dishonest because even I do not know all the facts of the situation.

Ultimately, I appreciate your words of advice because you speak from experience as a bouncer and I think that I agree with most everything you have said. As for the the suspects defending themselves rather than being the instigators, clearly I may be biased in my assessment. But I am open to changing my belief here once given a clearer picture of what happened based upon primary sources as evidence.

whatupdown 7 years, 3 months ago

Did'nt Jeffry Dalmer have an eating disorder?

Kontum1972 7 years, 3 months ago

hmmm...once the "Draft" starts all these so called tough guys can do all the A$$kicking they want over in the Sand Kingdom...your probably gonna see less street punks out and about...

newsomebody 7 years, 3 months ago

hey hears an idea the dude that had to go to the hospital for his head wound was a big fat dude and a drunk on top of that if they were trying to leave like they say they were trying to do maybe he triped in his drunken stuper and fell and bonked his little head

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

If he just fell and bumped his head how do you explain all the bruises on his face? There are pictures and doctors reports that show how many times he was hit. If the bouncers just held him and somehow he was just drunk and fell he wouldn't have cuts in his mouth and gashes on his face.

newsomebody 7 years, 3 months ago

one other thing if you were not there shut up it does not matter. life goes on and birdonawire shut up you really haven't bounced or looked into what you can and can't do as a bouncer. and not only that that idiots never once said thay were leaving and heres on other factoid noone has pointed out that the long haired geek had a razor knife in his back pocket that the bouncers took off of him and he is the one that ripped his shirt open NOT the bouncer. And if a chick does hit yes you mhave the wright to do what ever nesasary to stop her. but this was not the case the bouncersdid there job and anybody outside of the 5 to 6 people in the other parties group will be on the side of Axis.. And to all you haters answerme this what kind of nut job is bringind a razor knife to a club? and again if you whern't there shut up< I was I say the whole thing and Axis Bouncers did there job and that's it!

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

There was not even many people outside the club other than bouncers and the people envolved to be a witness unless they are just lying. The long haired guy didn't have a razor knife it was a little pocket knife and it was in his pocket showing that if he was out of control don't you think he might of pulled it out, the bouncers are the ones who pulled it out and opened it to him. The girl that supposedly hit the bouncer was walking off when she was thrown to the ground so how is that protecting himself. The bouncer that threw her down and from what I saw he did the most damage to the other two men also, seemed extremely angry before any of the fighting even began. I wonder if he was just one of those hot headed men that can't handle a little talking back from a woman, I bet if it is ever brought up he has violence towards women in his past. You seem a little hotheaded yourself newsomebody

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

can't we all be friends and just get along and let love and peace be are borders

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

pwershopper why all the hate and anger? maybe newsomebody just whants to tell his side of the story just like you do. Don't be so mean to the other writters just becouse they don't share the same opinion that you and your friends might share. I think that the bouncers did what they had to do becouse they were taking care of their job, and they probably felt a little treatened just like your friends thought they were in they right by protecting themselves. But there is no way that their were 8 to 10 bouncers kicking and punching your friends or those who you are trying to hard to protect, becouse if their were 8 to 10 bouncers maulling your friends I think things would have been a lot worse!

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

cynical- if you don't go to ghetto bars then how would you know if a girl got thrown to the ground, and yes there is pictures of bruises and doctors reports to show that too. And I saw how many bouncers there were and I'm sure all the other witnesses will say it too. Earlier I commented that some of the bouncers were not going to the extreme as others or yes it would have been a whole lot worse.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

The bouncers at this bar are not regular bouncers. They were angry and pyschotic to do this. They had a man on the ground and kept kicking him. They had a man pinned and kept hitting him. There is NO way what they did is justified.

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

just because someone isn't hospitalized doesn't mean that they don't have injuries. Who cares how many bars someone goes to, what does that say about yourself? I wouldn't talk about mindless rants when you go on about something you know nothing about. By the way not one of the witnesses is a college student other than maybe one of the bouncers.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

cynical, I was there, with a front row seat. Were you?

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

And I'm not a college student and I also was not drunk. So what does that tell you?

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

We were just trying to have a good time, obviously this is how these bouncers get their kicks. Literally.

my_2_cents 7 years, 3 months ago

Trinity said "who can be antagonistic, pugilistic, or just downright mean&ornrey when there's fresh hot pancakes to be had? hmm? anyone?" I just had to say, I was a manager at the Village Inn where Axis now stands oh so many years ago, and boy, at 2 am, they sure could get mean and ornery, we even had to get milspec to do security for us to prevent the weekly fights... before they came on I was a 20 yr old girl trying to break up fights and dodge punches all the while trying to ensure hot fluffy pancakes with a smile.... aah, memories....

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

no, I thought I might go to axis this weekend

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

question? why is it that when something happens and security is involved, they are always made out to be the bad guys! If tinkerbell and alove had one once of brain they would know that the security was in place for their own protection. And if they have a problem don't start it with the security, they get paid to do a job and if someone attacks them the have every legal wright to prtect themselfs. Besides that the bouncers at Axis are trained and are not ego driven bouncers! I do know all of them and one of the three that were involved is 32 years old was a pre-med student speaks two languages has been married for ten years and has four little boys at home and has bounced for 10 + years. Beisde that I saw what everything front row as well and you were not trying to leave and if you put your hands on someone they have the wright to put their hands on you and to clarify one thing the guy with the long hair is the one that knocked the girl down not the bouncers!

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

No fight would have ever began if it wasn't for the bouncer hurting the girl and yes the long haired guy fell on top of the girl after the bouncers jumped on him. And I never claimed that everyone was perfect because the girl did say a smart comment to the bouncer but he is the one that put his hands on her. Which that is still wrong but that is not what turned this into a situation like this, and the men that were hurt honestly did nothing wrong. Who cares how old and how many children the bouncer has, does that make him a better person? Was he the one laying in the hospital bed away from his children when he is the financial provider to his family? As everyone makes up reasons to protect themselves I hope they feel good about themselves for what they have done. And not to get all religious on anyone but God knows the truth and he pays everyone back in time. by the way, myworld please learn how to spell before you talk about how smart someone is

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

Its not like he went there to have this happen, what grownups aren't allowed to go to the bar? He deserves sympathy, his whole family is suffering from this. And if anyone did something wrong it wasn't him. Sounds like you need to grow up! Why get so mad over comments on the internet and you don't have to believe anything I say, who are you that I would care?

PiperFlyer 7 years, 3 months ago

Sympathy, hmmm, sympathy..... That's like me starting something with you Tinkerbell, and then I end up in the hospital with brain trauma ... I don't deserve sympathy because I started it... This is getting all too complicated, I'm right, you're right, OL' Holy 9lbs. 7 oz. baby Jesus knows the truth.... what the hell are we even wasting our time on here for, if and when this goes to court whatever decision is reached is still going to be wrong..... so lets just call it a "tie"... And primary financial provider, cry me a river.... if he is such a no trouble starting upstanding citizen then I would assume he has a job that offers insurance.... and if he doesn't dram unemployment! And actually yes it does matter about the personal life of a bouncer and how many kids. Why would a bouncer with something to lose and jeopardize his family and kids do something stupid..... exactly,he doesn't. Everyone can point fingers at whoever they want.... this will soon be figured out. But you all are welcome to come to Axis any time you wish, we look forward to your business!

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

whatabout the open container tha the bouncer grabed out of the hands of the hands of the people that were trying so hard to leave, not.... and what about the bouncer that can't do his computer job becouse of the idiots that he had to contain and hurt his hand in doing so!!!!!

Crossfire 7 years, 3 months ago

vessions, becouse i bounchers wory!

spell check?

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

quit trying to say that the bouncers were out of line and admit that you and your people were wrong and picked a fight with the wrong people!!!!!

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

here's ne other thing, abe and jake's had a knock down drag out fight last night and the whell had a big fight last night that someone had to be hauled off in an ambulance but nooo nobody says anything about that and their is no write up in the paper about that. if that is not crap I don't know what is !!!!!

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

I said i't once and I'll say it again. The bouncers are not to blame at all it's the people that act stupid and get wayyy to drunk to act like adults and can't be resposable for their own acts. what d you have to say to that... power to all bouncers, if they are new or old weither they have the training or not they are there for your protection and if you mess with them you get what you get!!!

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

I can't stand people who act like they are such bad-asses when there are more than one of them. Of course he got his ass kicked there were to many to fight back. And even if I got into a fight with someone who started it with me, I would feel bad if they ended up really getting hurt. Its not like he just got a black eye, he's really hurt, and he also didn't get into a fight with one guy, he was jumped by several men. Lets say your story that some drunk guy was starting crap and the bouncers needed to keep in under control by jumping him was true, I bet even you perfect people have had a night where you drank a little too much and said something you shouldn't have, does that mean that someone deserves to be hurt like that. He is a good citizen, he doesn't even go out, this was a once in a blue moon thing. You have no idea about his home situation and what this has caused to it, money isn't everything there are other reasons why a father needs to be at home too.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

Who cares if you guys believe her anyway? Or me? The fact of the matter is, he got hurt. Don't you at least feel bad that you hurt him? Don't you care that he has a family and what if he would have gotten brain damage or killed? Do you even care that he's lying on his couch as we speak when he should be at work providing for his family? His lip busted and a bruise that starts with his jaw and ends about half way down his ribs from where someone kicked him as he fell. That is why he was life flighted to KU Med, not because he fell and hit his head. Regardless if he started this or not what kind of person are to sit there and say he deserves that?

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

Once more I don't give a rats ass if you believe me or not so you STFU!

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

He's not a perfect angel, but in this case he really did nothing. How hard is it to believe that some bouncers may just have gotten hot headed and taken it too far, I'm sure it happens more than you think.

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

and to alove and tinkerbell I don't care if the spaelling is up to your standereds or not you get my point!!!

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

just look at all the comments on here you can tell are from bouncers. Look how mad you get and the stupid crap you say. NO ONE messed with you, you attacked people who were LEAVING! And I've not said one word about your spelling, I don't give a crap. Listen, just because you are bouncers does not give you the right to do what you please. Do you think you are tough because you have 10-20 men backing you up? That makes you a man huh? Beat up 2 guys and send one to the ICU of KU Med? There for our protection, ha!

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

And that last comment was aimed towards Axis bouncers not all bouncers. I think is funny how you are on here trying to get anyone to take your side and justify what you did. Does it make you feel better or what?

"if you mess with them you get what you get!!!" What that mean? If a girl your with says something smart to a bouncer and he gets his feelings hurt or whatever that bouncer did when he grabbed her, that means watch out cuz now your gonna get what you get?

Call me whatever you want, but there is a Man who saw it all. You will get yours, and that is not a threat. Trust me, I'm not perfect and I've done wrong in my life and it always comes back 10-fold. You can try to justify what you did and say you did it to protect the patrons all you want. But matter-of-factually we were outside, we were leaving and we did nothing to put anyone even you in danger. It doesn't matter now cuz it's all over and done.

Just to clarify, I don't think every bouncer outside Axis that night was wrong. I think it was about 1/2 and 1/2. Some I don't think knew what to do. Others were stomping "the long hair geek" as you referred to him in one of you comments, while he was on the ground. Some were restraining "the big fat guy" another way you commented about one man, while others kept hitting him until he fell, hard and then proceeded to stomp on him as well. The only time any bouncer quit was when he was not moving. I am the woman who was screaming get off them the whole time it was happening, I know exactly what happened that night. I remember it all too well.

myworld 7 years, 3 months ago

well next time don't forget to bring your glasses so your vessions not so clouded, becouse i was right there and saw what you where doing and the others girls too. you know what your not even worth the time, to try and explain. Just so you know Axis has 10 to 15 people that will back up all of the bouncers and axis so the bounchers need not wory!

tinkerbell 7 years, 3 months ago

The only way you have 10 to 15 people to say what you want them to is if you told people what to say. There wasn't even that many people out there.

alove 7 years, 3 months ago

My vessions were not clouded anyway, I was S-O-B-E-R...do you know what that spells? You and all the other bouncers are L-I-A-R-S...how bout that one?

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