Questions of judgment / LJWorld.com

Archive for Monday, October 29, 2007

Witness: Bipolar disorder played role in ex-teacher’s relationship

Meredith Kane, a former Lawrence High School teacher, walks to court in July with her attorney, James Rumsey in this Journal-World file photo.

By George Diepenbrock

October 29, 2007

Bipolar disorder played role in sexual relationship

A former LHS teacher accused of aggravated indecent liberties with a child may have had her judgement psychologically inhibited. According to psychologist Dr. Bruce Cappo, 24-year-old Meredith Kane suffers from bipolar disorder and substance abuse issues. Enlarge video

A former Lawrence teacher convicted of having sex with a male student has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, which inhibited her judgment, a psychologist testified Monday.

"She knew the behavior was not appropriate, but she was very caught up in the fantasy of love in terms of her approach to the relationship," said Dr. Bruce Cappo, a Lenexa psychologist.

The victim, who is now 16, also suffers from the disorder, according to testimony.

Cappo took the stand during a sentencing hearing for Meredith L. Kane, 24, Monday afternoon in Douglas County District Court. He said Kane saw herself as someone who could help a student who also was having severe problems.

It led to their consensual sexual relationship that began in August 2006 and continued until officials discovered it in March.

Cappo's testimony took most of the three-hour hearing, which will continue Dec. 17 and an attorney said will include the victim's testimony.

Last year, Kane was in her first year of teaching at Lawrence High School. She pleaded guilty in July to one count of aggravated indecent liberties with a child. She faces a prison sentence of between five and 20 years, but her attorney, James Rumsey, has asked District Court Judge Stephen Six to consider a lesser sentence.

Cappo said Kane was diagnosed with a form of the disorder after she was arrested in March. He said that even when she appeared to be in a normal mood, the disorder could cause her to misinterpret social relationships and make impulsive decisions.

Details emerged about how the two first met - while Kane was a student teacher at Central Junior High School, where the boy was a student. When Kane was hired at LHS, she had trouble fitting in with fellow teachers, Cappo said, which caused her depression.

She saw being able to help the boy student as an important role she could fulfill, he said.

"Her judgment that she could help him was an impaired judgment by the bipolar disorder," Cappo said.

But his parents and school officials raised concerns several times, in part, because the two were spending time together outside of school.

Both Kane and the boy became defensive and denied having a sexual relationship until charges eventually were filed in March. Cappo also said Kane and the boy saw themselves as equals, which would not characterize her as a pedophile. He also said after reviewing therapy notes in the victim's records that he did not find "any harm described" from his participation in the relationship.

Six revoked Kane's bond in August after prosecutors said she had violated a no-contact order and saw the boy after her guilty plea. A trial on the protective-order violation allegation is set for Nov. 7.

Discussion

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29 October 2007
at 10:06 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

Oh well then if she thinks she is his equal that makes it peachy fine does it? Someone needs to analyze the therapist she is seeing too.
29 October 2007
at 10:13 p.m.

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klmammo (Anonymous) says…

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29 October 2007
at 10:28 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Klmammo:

You made me spill my drink, damm+t!

LOL!
29 October 2007
at 10:34 p.m.

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oldgoof (Anonymous) says…

Lets let Dotslines check in. She is the licensed mental health professional here. But I hope she gives us the answer in less than 300 words.
29 October 2007
at 10:37 p.m.

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janeb (Anonymous) says…

oldgoof
That was too funny.
29 October 2007
at 11:03 p.m.

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msshaden (Anonymous) says…

How is it that she obtained a teaching degree being bipolar? I'm not an expert but something is definitely wrong here. Are they really going to try to use that as a defense then weasel out of being labled a pedophile or a registered sex offender? Wow, I am speechless. Where is the justice in this?
30 October 2007
at 1:43 a.m.

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BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

In the past 5 years, there have been 2500+ teachers caught that had their way with children.

This is an epidemic.

30 October 2007
at 4:21 a.m.

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tell_it_like_it_is (Anonymous) says…

Bipolar my foot. Overweight and desprate is more like it.
30 October 2007
at 5 a.m.

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labmonkey (Anonymous) says…

I will have to admit…my first thoughts were with klmammo and tell_it_like_it_is. But then I seen that someone diagnosed her with bi-polar and thought “oh great, now some judge will give her her job back.” When I was in college I knew someone who was severly bi-polar (900 mg of lithium a day) and she knew the difference between right and wrong. If this were a male teacher with a female (or male) student, we wouldn't (hopefully) even be having this discussion.

(On a slightly different note though…with the two cases that made national headlines when the teachers were…for lack of a better term…smoking hot…you would see female psychologists on the talk shows say that those boys were still being abused and would be suffering for years to come. Uhm…you can tell they have never raised or been around teenage boys, because presented with the opportunity, 95% of teenage boys would had sex with those teachers….only the ID-believing, home-schooled types saying no. I even found myself saying “where were the hot teachers when I was in school.” A bit chauvinistic, I know, but true. I am not saying that any of these teachers should get their jobs back though.)
30 October 2007
at 5:03 a.m.

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labmonkey (Anonymous) says…

“Cappo also said Kane and the boy saw themselves as equals, which would not characterize her as a pedophile.”

Lets see a male teacher use that excuse and get away with it.
30 October 2007
at 5:40 a.m.

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northtown (Anonymous) says…

With enough money,payed to a shrink,we can all be bipolar,or by something?????Put here in Jail and make her teach there!!!!!!!!! Maybe sex ed and how to gain weight and what little boys and most boys like!!!!!!!!!
Sick -Em
30 October 2007
at 5:55 a.m.

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Martin_D_15 (Anonymous) says…

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30 October 2007
at 6:47 a.m.

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punkrockmom (Anonymous) says…

I seriously don't see what bipolar has to do with anything. I know tons of people that have been diagnosed bipolar. It's not the end of the world and most people still know what's right and wrong. I admit that sometimes people in manic stages think they are right about everything.
30 October 2007
at 7:08 a.m.

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stuckinthemiddle (Anonymous) says…

I love the smell of ignorance in the morning… it smells like fear:
30 October 2007
at 8:02 a.m.

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deec (Anonymous) says…

“How is it that she obtained a teaching degree being bipolar? “
What other physical illnesses do you feel should disqualify teachers?

30 October 2007
at 8:06 a.m.

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CentennialNeighbor (Anonymous) says…

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30 October 2007
at 8:10 a.m.

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consumer1 (Anonymous) says…

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30 October 2007
at 8:14 a.m.

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hilary (Anonymous) says…

Can we please publish a positive story about teachers in the journal world?

She will never get her job back. She will never teach again. Don't feel so threatened, people. Be thankful this stopped as soon as it did, and turn away. Focus on your Halloween plans, or your mortgage, or anything else. She has soaked up far too much attention as is.
30 October 2007
at 8:17 a.m.

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woxy (Anonymous) says…

“”How is it that she obtained a teaching degree being bipolar? “”
“What other physical illnesses do you feel should disqualify teachers?”

Any that can be used as a legal defense in a criminal trial that makes them not guilty of something that they did, in fact, do.
30 October 2007
at 8:19 a.m.

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LawSW (Anonymous) says…

When are these judges going to learn that bipolar diagnosis is a medical diagnosis and should only be rendered by a psychiatrist not merely a psychologist who is not qualified to diagnose medical conditions! Psychologists may, according to our board—The Behavioral Sciences Regulatory Board—consult with the person's medical doctor to render opinions on personality disorders, etc. but not on medical diagnoses.
30 October 2007
at 8:33 a.m.

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50YearResident (Anonymous) says…

“She saw being able to help the boy student as an important role she could fulfill”

At the same time she could fulfill a couple of her own needs and both of them will be better off. When you have “Fat Girl Syndrome” you have needs. She probably never dated in High School or Collage.
30 October 2007
at 8:42 a.m.

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TravisTyson (Anonymous) says…

right_thinker (Anonymous) says:
It's a shame this beautiful young woman has to go thru this.

Are you serious? She made the decision on her own. I knew her in college and I was about as suprised as everyone else. But as a 25 year old male I understand that there are things completely unacceptable, she should have too. I have no sympathy for her actions.
30 October 2007
at 8:52 a.m.

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ilovemylabs (Anonymous) says…

I think the worst part about it is the fact that it took so long for anyone to figure out they were having sex in the first place. I was a senior at Lawrence High last year and I didn't have her as a teacher nor was I friends with that kid but I realized within the first month of school that there was something going on between them… they ate lunch together everyday, they left school together everyday, she walked him to his classes, she was always at his locker between classes and so on. But when I reported it administration just looked at me like I was stupid and told me to mind my own business. I think the real reason that she did it is because she couldn't get none so she had to turn to a 15-year-old and he thought it would be cool to bang a teacher. But it would not have gotten as far as it did if our school administration would have just opened their eyes and had the balls to step in and make it stop. This woman is sick and bipolar disorder is just a poor excuse to lower her sentence and get pity from the community. I say send her ass to prison, she should never be allowed around children again!

30 October 2007
at 8:59 a.m.

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hilary (Anonymous) says…

I don't think her weight is really a factor in this case.
30 October 2007
at 9:03 a.m.

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75x55 (Anonymous) says…

I'm almost amazed by the situation, except for the writing examples here of recent and potential hs grads.
30 October 2007
at 9:14 a.m.

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staff04 (Anonymous) says…

Is she smiling in her mug shot? I think that defninitely indicates some level of mental illness.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots…

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/…
30 October 2007
at 9:27 a.m.

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quietgirl (Anonymous) says…

Many of you (50YearResident, northtown, tell_it_like_it_is) are just cruel and immature. How many of you would be saying these rude and offensive comments about Ms Kane if your names were posted? Stop acting like a children and comment on the issues at hand. Not only that but her Mother and Father could be reading this. Have some sort of decency!
30 October 2007
at 9:30 a.m.

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lsense (Anonymous) says…

Just another example of psychologists coming to court and testifying that people should not be held responsible for their actions because they have x,y, and/or z “mental health” problems. The country is really going downhill with people believing this crap. If you commit a crime, does it really matter what's wrong with you? No, you should have to serve your time just like anyone else.

And to right_thinker who says:
“It's a shame this beautiful young woman has to go thru this.”

Once again, you're responsible for your own actions. Period. She knew what she was doing.
30 October 2007
at 9:33 a.m.

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quietgirl (Anonymous) says…

Also, she has already plead guilty. This is the sentencing hearing. She is not trying to get out this. They are only asking the judge to consider all the issues when making his decision. Most of you guys are idiots!
30 October 2007
at 9:41 a.m.

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lsense (Anonymous) says…

“”How is it that she obtained a teaching degree being bipolar? “”
“What other physical illnesses do you feel should disqualify teachers?”

woxy wrote: “Any that can be used as a legal defense in a criminal trial that makes them not guilty of something that they did, in fact, do.”

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

And seriously people, stating that someone is ignorant if they don't think a person should be allowed to get away with a crime just because they have a “mental disorder” is the truly ignorant statement. I always thought the point in psychology was to help (diagnose/treat) people with their problems, and instead it's being used as a scapegoat to explain away everything from this case to murder.
30 October 2007
at 10:02 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

“One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small………..”

30 October 2007
at 10:12 a.m.

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Kontum1972 (Anonymous) says…

Bi something?…LoL….give me a break….so when u do something wrong one can always find a medical reason for a person using wrong judgement…..kind of like the false FEMA press conference that took place the other day….concerning the california fires…..mb they will find a reason why those two gals killed those KDOT workers….mb they were Bi-Poled…. too…..gawd their rights were violated…
30 October 2007
at 10:16 a.m.

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Confrontation (Anonymous) says…

There are plenty of psychologists in Lawrence who are lacking clients and would say anything for a few bucks. Disgusting, just like this teacher.
30 October 2007
at 10:38 a.m.

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Kontum1972 (Anonymous) says…

so if this person came to school with a Glock 9 in her purse and cut loose in the school…they can just blow it off by saying they were bipolar and didnt understand what they were doing and we need to be more understanding….LoL…..
30 October 2007
at 10:59 a.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

article also said she had trouble fitting in with the other teachers. is this meant to explain why she had the sex, or what might have triggered the bipolar disorder?

trouble fitting in, it was her first year! and maybe she had trouble fitting in because other teachers noticed her noticing male students in a certain way?

***
my friend righty probably made that comment in sarcasm, I suspect.
30 October 2007
at 11:11 a.m.

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lsense (Anonymous) says…

americorps (Anonymous) says:
Anyone against that is simply unpatriotic, ignorant of mental illness and hateful.

“unpatriotic” eh? Good one! You must be one of the childrens learnin' from ole Bush. Spouting that nonsense is quite intelligent! :P
30 October 2007
at 11:13 a.m.

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keepitreal (Anonymous) says…

I was a senior at LHS when all this happen, and I can tell you that I seen the hints also. They were always together. She was always flirting with the students, rubbing their arms and stuff , her body language when she talked to boys is the same way that my 12 year old sister talks to boys. When I first heard that a teacher was in trouble for sleeping with a student I knew it was her, I didn't even have to ask who it was . So this thing about knowing what is right and wrong is dumb. She knows what she did, and she should get in trouble for it. I know a lot of people with the same illness and they don't do crazy stuff like that. I do not feel bad for her at all.
30 October 2007
at 11:20 a.m.

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keepitreal (Anonymous) says…

Another thing , you can be bipolar and still be a teacher DUH.
30 October 2007
at 12:28 p.m.

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ctrmhero (Anonymous) says…

If someone want to get an acurrate mental health diagnosis the place to go is to a psychologist. Look at the requirements for study of psychology for a Phd level psychologist compared to that of a psychiatrist. The Phd psychologist has to have almost three times the amount of study in psychology. The just are not Medical Doctors so they cannot presribe meds. Go to a mental health institution and most don't even have psychiatrists on staff but the treatment team is made up of psychologist. The therapys minus meds are almost exclusively done by psychologists. Look at the sex pred program in Larned. It is the program that all others in the nation are based on. Its run by psychologist not psychiatrist.

30 October 2007
at 12:44 p.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

“I was a senior at LHS when all this happen, and I can tell you that I seen the hints also.”

Sounds like LHS needs to rescind your diploma.
30 October 2007
at 4:08 p.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

the reason for the insanity defense goes way way back for hundreds of years. it was reasoned that it is wrong to punish someone for a crime they either could not understand as a crime, couldn't perceive as wrong, or could not help themselves from committing (compulsion). this goes back into british law before american law.

as far as I am aware, I don't think that a diagnosis of Bipolar affective disorder could support an insanity defense, as reality contact isn't broken and the person has some understanding of what he/she is doing.

of course, if a person is psychotic then insanity defense is for him or her.

***
indeed she might be chubby from the meds. was this diagnosis made prior to the events of the charges? or, are they being made recent, anybody know?

I still wonder about the comment about “not fitting in well” with her fellow teachers…is that meant as a further mittigating factor? explaining the sex? or, explaining the bipolar?

surprised this case hasn't made the national media like some of the other female teacher abuse stories…suppose she's not good looking enough for that?
30 October 2007
at 4:11 p.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

btw, nice job dotslines.
30 October 2007
at 4:19 p.m.

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ctrmhero (Anonymous) says…

DotsLines

I am not a mental health care professional but I have worked in that field for the last seven years. None of the superintendents at any of the state hospitals in Kansas are psychiatrist. There are no Psychiatrist on staff at either Parsons State or KNI. The have clinical directors that only deal with physical needs and the rare chemical restraint, but the psychololgy is done by psychologist. The most published sex offender program in the nation is at Parsons. No Psychiatrist. Larned's program and its branch at the O are again run by psychologist. If you want meds go to a Psychiatrist if you want treatment go to a Psychologist. Thats why most compency evals are done by Psychologist
30 October 2007
at 4:22 p.m.

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costello (Anonymous) says…

DotsLines: Thanks for injecting some real information into this discussion and doing so in a calm, factual way. As a person with a close family member who suffers from bipolar, I've found some of the comments here hurtful and/or infuriating. Between the childish giggling about the sex aspects of this story (like 2nd graders who've just heard the word 'underwear') and the ignorance about serious mental illness and the law - even from normally bright people like logicsound, I want to throw up my hands and shriek. Unfortunately the people who most need to understand your posts either won't read them through to the end or they won't understand them.
30 October 2007
at 4:33 p.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

dotslines,
the complaint about your posts' length reminds me of a monty python sketch: “my brain hurts!”
30 October 2007
at 4:39 p.m.

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lsense (Anonymous) says…

costello….
My question to you, and anyone else who feels that mental illness should grant lesser punishment for crimes committed, is how would you feel if someone in your family was the victim of a horrible crime. You're going to sit there and tell me you wouldn't think differently? That you would not be upset that someone with a mental disorder, that killed someone in your family, would be able to get out after 2-3 years in a psych. ward?

I'm not sitting here and saying that this is a horrible crime, but my point is still the same.
30 October 2007
at 5:21 p.m.

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i_have_only_valid_opinions (Anonymous) says…

I wonder if the bipolar diagnosis has anything to do with assuming the personality/moods of the other person she apparently ate!!!

30 October 2007
at 7:27 p.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

How can you defend this lady?

This happened last time a story was posted about this idiot. I note several people were censored for their comments. I got censored last time for making fun of the defendant. I made reference to her wieght and so on and got zapped. I am pretty sure that if I had made the same exact comment about a 45 year old fat guy that the comment would have stood the scrunity of the ljworld.

But, back to the point here, this lady took advantage of her position — but yet people feel sorry for her. Why? I think it because she is fat that some feel sorry for her for some wierd reason.

What about the 15 year old she sexually abused. I do not really care if the boy says it was consensial. He does not have the capaicity to give that kind of consent which is why they call it sexual abuse.

I mean come on.

Oh, yeah, the bi-polar thing as an excuse is pretty lame and insulting to people who “really” suffer from that condition. It is a sentencing hearing which means it is tme to throw out the kitchen sink to try to get some sympathy to reduce the sentence.
30 October 2007
at 7:39 p.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

Wow, windlass is really pissed. I read dotsline stuff and did not find all that far off. But, I am not buying the bi-polar thing. It is being presented after the fact. And, again, I think the bi-polar argument is insulting to people who really have the disease and function without breaking any laws.

I mean I am pretty sure that large majority of the people who get DUI have some degree of bi-polar issues. But, we throw the book at them, don't we?
30 October 2007
at 7:56 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

I'm with you babboy this bipolar claim bears no weight with me either. Even on college campuses there are rules which govern relationships between faculty and students. Never should a person in a position of authority cross the line with a subordinate; not to mention with a child who is not of the age to consent or has mental health problems documented. Further I feel the school district should be sued by the parents of this kid. There were numerous reports about this situation long before it was investigated and the teacher dismissed.
30 October 2007
at 8:03 p.m.

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Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…

artichokeheart (Anonymous) says: .
There were numerous reports about this situation long before it was investigated and the teacher dismissed.
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Really - were these the reports you made when the boy was in your livin room braggin?
30 October 2007
at 8:17 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

You are confused China. Please stop following me on the forum.
30 October 2007
at 8:21 p.m.

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perkins (Anonymous) says…

The 8:52 am post by ilovemylabs causes concern. It claims that Meredith walked the lad to his classes, ate lunch with him each day, was always at his locker between classes, left school with him at the end of day, etc. If this post is true, and this commenter did indeed report it to the Administration but was told to shove off, then this high school and school district have more serious problems than we had thought.
30 October 2007
at 8:26 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

That is one of the instances I refer to perkins. There have been other reports about this since the story was initially brought to the public. When students were asked about this by their parents most admitted to knowing about it long before.
30 October 2007
at 8:52 p.m.

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bearded_gnome (Anonymous) says…

yes Dotslines, I was wondering if anybody knew whether the diagnosis was ever made before the events occurred, and whether she actually was on meds. I know from the 6news report there was indication she had maryjane and alcohol use too.

yes, she's not anywhere near the insanity defense. the psychologist's ref that this is different from pedophilia since she thought them equals is interesting too. somewhere in here mind she knew the age of the boy, and somewhere in her mind she understood he was a student and she was a teacher with the authority figure properties of that position.

30 October 2007
at 9:09 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

How do extreme highs and extreme lows turn you into a pedophile? They don't, so I'm sticking with what I said yesterday:

Bi-polar? So sentence her twice.

Looky there — sometimes I'm on the same side as the neocons. Wonders never cease.
30 October 2007
at 9:30 p.m.

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wugrad (Anonymous) says…

As a psychologist, I frankly believe that Bipolar Disorder is overdiagnosed!!! Have we considered that this gal is really a Borderline Personality? Obviously she has very poor boundaries, unstable sense of self to get into a relationship with a minor, etc. Borderlines frequently get a bipolar diagnosis. Bipolar is quite a popular diagnosis right now, some people want to be bipolar. It is a very serious illness and the diagnosis should not be just handed out as I've seen it. I've seen the real deal and I've seen a lot of fluff. I don't know this gal, but I'm skeptical of this line of defense for her behavior. It should not be an excuse to get a lighter sentence. As others have said she knew what she was doing.
30 October 2007
at 9:32 p.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

dotline you are good. How much do charge to testify for a living?

I am guessing the defense counsel for the defendant probably paid the psychiatrist that testified here in this case for a lengthy report, and exam, and the testimony. I am guessing $5000.00 plus in charges.

The prosecution may bring in someone for a similar fee and say the bipolar disorder had nothing to do with it.

I think you missed the part of the article which says the teacher tried to contact the kid after entering her plea. If I were the judge, that would piss me off. I would say that you can pay experts to say anything and that crying bipolar after the fact is a made up bogus excuse manufactured by the defense attorney to justify what this idiot did. I would follow the guidelines to the letter. She lost all creditability with me with the attempt to contact the kid after the plea. She clearly does not care about doing the right thing. If she had showed some remorse and willingness to rehabilitate, then maybe the whole mitigating circumstance of her condition would be more believable.

By the way, Windlass is mad at you, not me.
30 October 2007
at 9:50 p.m.

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doc1 (Anonymous) says…

There are NO victims in this case. Thats every high school kids dream. She sure as heck didn't ruin his life. She mad it better.
30 October 2007
at 9:56 p.m.

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artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

She did not attemt contact, she had contact.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/aug…
It seems she lacks some very basic common sense.
31 October 2007
at 12:24 a.m.

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black_butterfly (Anonymous) says…

It is sad and unfortunate that she or anyone else should suffer from bi-polar disorder, however, she knew that what she was doing was totally wrong (otherwise she would not have denied it at first). They both knew what they were doing. Yes, the 15 yr old may have consented, but so what? He is a minor and it is against the law. She broke the law and she should be held fully responsible. She should get 10 years AND treatment for the disorder. I can't believe that she was dumb enough to give up her whole career after 4-5 yrs of college just to gain some attention from a male. like someone else said, if this case involved a male teacher and a female student there would be NO debate about this. Lets just hope she isn't pregnant by this kid to top things off. Her mug shot scared me. She looked weird, crazy and derranged. All I can say is God bless her soul, because she did the crime and deserves to do the time. We have to protect our kids when they don't have the maturity or sense to make the right decisions.
31 October 2007
at 8:23 a.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

Dotlines:

I can see I am getting your attention.

But, I note that you ignored the whole paid testimony part of my argument. You are missing my point (intentionally). I do not believe that this lady has bipoloar disorder. I think her family paid a defense attorney to pay a shrink a large amount of money to say she has the condition to get a better sentence and less time in jail. If it works, then it would be money well spent. But, it is still a big ruse by the defendant.

Also, the judge had better not be duped by this nonsense. Judge Dowd is retiring because he bought into such a BS argument on a rape case.

Amusing.
31 October 2007
at 9:54 a.m.

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costello (Anonymous) says…

Isense:

In answer to your question as to how I'd feel if I had a family member who was the victim of a horrible crime committed by a mentally ill person who then received 2 to 3 years of treatment rather that decades of incarceration, what DotsLines said:

“[I]f a person with a severe and debilitating *physical* illness bumped into you on the street because of uncontrollable movements, would you hold them to the same standard as someone who walked up to you and deliberately shoved you?”

…

“While it may be satisfying to give her the maximum sentence, it would not be just her that pays for that decision - it would also be whoever her victim is when she gets out. Treatment may not satisfy the bloodlust for vengeance, but which would be better - to punish her more and have her do it again, or to punish her less and do what we can to see that future potential victims are protected? She's not going to “learn her lesson” by being locked up …”

Frankly, none of my loved ones has ever been the victim of any crime - horrible or otherwise - committed by a mentally ill person.

I do, however, have a loved one - my son - who suffers from a serious mental illness. He's been given the same diagnosis that Ms. Kane has - bipolar. A couple of years ago he survived a psychotic episode. This episode was the first clue I had that he was ill. It's terrifying to see a normally reserved, dignified, rational young man turn into a paranoid “nut” who is hearing voices and is convinced people are plotting to kill him. No amount of reasoning could reach him. And he refused help because he didn't believe he was ill. Furthermore, I couldn't force treatment on him, because he has the right to refuse treatment. Never mind that the illness itself impaired his ability to reason and perceive reality. Unless he was an imminent danger to himself or others, I had no power to force him to take meds or enter a hospital.

(continued … )

31 October 2007
at 9:55 a.m.

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costello (Anonymous) says…

(continued … )

The episode lasted several months, and I lived in terror that my son would hurt himself, would be arrested, hurt or killed by the police, would be victimized by someone else, or would commit a crime due to his delusions. He later told me that he felt like he was in a dream where he couldn't sort out what was real from what wasn't. I know that he was genuinely afraid that someone would kill him. If you believed that someone else was trying to kill you and you couldn't make anyone else believe it, what would you do?

So, back to your question, if my family member was murdered, maimed, raped, etc., by a mentally ill person, I hope that I would take the time to understand the whole story. I would understand from painful experience that the ill person isn't just a monster. He's a person much like any of us who happens to suffer from a devastating illness which our legal system, in its infinite wisdom, has decided should be allowed to run its course until he commits some horrible act, at which point they will prosecute him to the full extent of the law and lock him up. I would be aware that there's likely a family behind that individual who cares about him and tried to get him help but was turned away.

Of course, if I thought he were malingering, I'd be angry and push for full punishment. But if there were a documented history or clear evidence that this person was ill, I'd like that information to be factored in to his sentence. And if I learned that his family had tried to get treatment for a psychotic person and they were told that he has the right to refuse treatment, come back when he hurts himself or someone else, I'd be really, really angry. I'd be angry at an insane system which allows people whose brains are obviously not functioning properly to refuse treatment just as if they were fully rational people making fully rational, informed treatment decisions.
31 October 2007
at 9:58 a.m.

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oldgoof (Anonymous) says…

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
31 October 2007
at 12:25 p.m.

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AMouse (Anonymous) says…

i know meredith well and i'm a pretty good acquaintance (i wouldn't say we are friends just because we didn't spend that much time together). i like her a lot and i think she as an incredibly intelligent girl. but i've watched her do so many things that absolutely make no sense to me. not any criminal activity, but things like living with roommates who enjoyed torturing her, dating boys who were abusive to their previous girlfriends, that sort of thing. it made so much sense to me when she was diagnosed as bipolar, because she would talk about how these things were so bad for her and she continued to do them.

i FIRMLY believe that jail will not deter her from doing something similar again. i don't believe she is a pedophile. she did not see the student as a child, she saw him as someone who paid attention to her and made advances toward her. i think it also has a little to do with the fact that she was in a “powerful position”. if she were a college professor, she would do the same thing with her students. if she were not in the teaching profession, she would do the same thing with an employee of hers. she cannot get a grip on reality when it comes to male attention. she needs a lot of treatment and psychotherapy. i believe that she should be punished for her actions and i also think she needs rehabilitation. ten years in jail will not stop her.
31 October 2007
at 2:42 p.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

dotsline:
Odd, your tone sounds kind of angry. Do you have some issue with people disagreeing with you?

Despite all of your credentials, I still think the expert was biased in that his testimony was paid for by the defense and that the bipolar thing is nothing more then a ruse to fool everyone.

Lastly, you make assumptions about the other posters back grounds which may be less then accurate. You do not know anything about my education and experience or knowledge about such issues.

But, of course, we know a lot about yours because you brag about in every post,

Very amusing.
31 October 2007
at 6:13 p.m.

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BABBOY (Anonymous) says…

dotsline:

You telling me you are not angry. I did not get a rise from you.

Sorry, I am not buying that any more then the bi-polar thing. Re-read your posts. You actually correct my typos. You rip apart each of posts with zealousness.

I am not a shrink but that seems a little obsessive and compulsive to me. I mean I understand your motives you testify for a living and you want people to buy into this stuff.

Let me help with your future testimony. You should admit the obvious. You could have shot me down a long time ago by simply admitting that the expert may have had a bias but none the less bi-polar disorder was real. You sort of did that at first when you conceded the bit about the defendant screwing up by contacting the victim. But, when I got to the whole paid expert whore thing you got real defensive. I mean everyone knows that the only reason the bipolar is coming up is to mitigate the sentence. Everyone also knows that the defense paid the guy a large fee (I think my numbers are probably accurate). But, you would never concede that which takes away your credibility because now you look like you have a bias as well.

Sorry, but I clearly did get under your skin and trying to denying in light of your long winded posts just further takes away from your credibility.

These are rudimentary cross examination skills. You can draw your conclusions as to my profession and where my experience on these issue come from.

Thanks. It has been fun.

I got to get on with other things.
31 October 2007
at 7:33 p.m.

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janeb (Anonymous) says…

I suggest we all let dots have the thread. Although I cannot see how she does all this work with and appearing in court for all these mentally ill folks while typing responses all day. Who cares. I suspect the Judge will not buy the Bi-Polar excuse anyway. I heard some Parents intend to join together and speak their peace at the next hearing but have not recieved any confirmation on that yet. While the Judge does consider in Court comments I doubt he will be reading Dots column in the LJW.
31 October 2007
at 9:25 p.m.

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Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…

“Jane, you ignorant s***” - Chevy was so funny.

Seriously Jane, your errant capitalizations are showing, as is your gullibility. I might not agree with Dots, but Dots has 'ya right where he/she wants 'ya. Give up - you are whipped.
31 October 2007
at 10:10 p.m.

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janeb (Anonymous) says…

Repost for the slow ones.
31 October 2007 at 7:33 p.m.

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janeb (Anonymous) says:

I suggest we all let dots have the thread. Although I cannot see how she does all this work with and appearing in court for all these mentally ill folks while typing responses all day. Who cares. I suspect the Judge will not buy the Bi-Polar excuse anyway. I heard some Parents intend to join together and speak their peace at the next hearing but have not recieved any confirmation on that yet. While the Judge does consider in Court comments I doubt he will be reading Dots column in the LJW.

1 November 2007
at 7:54 a.m.

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janeb (Anonymous) says…

Good morning dots , I just knew you would have to respond . Todays lesson is obsessive compulsive disorder. Carry on my wayward son……………
1 November 2007
at 3:55 p.m.

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oldgoof (Anonymous) says…

For being a “licensed” mental health professional, DotsLines sure does heap lots of unprofessional vile and vitriol on others. I wonder who graded her tests?