Archive for Thursday, August 2, 2007

Insurance companies see little change for businesses

August 2, 2007

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Over a dozen couples take advantage of new registry

A landmark day in Lawrence, as the city launches the state's first legal recognition for same-sex couples. A total of 14 gay and heterosexual couples have logged on and applied to Kansas' only domestic partnership registry. Enlarge video













A few who do

According to a survey conducted by the Human Rights Campaign, several national companies with Lawrence ties offer health benefits to domestic partners of employees. Here are some:

¢ Gap¢ Bank of America¢ Sears Holding Corp. ¢ Walgreens¢ Sprint ¢ Target¢ J.C. Penney Co.¢ Starbucks¢ Applebee's¢ Home Depot¢ Best Buy¢ Borders¢ Hallmark Cards

Lawrence's new domestic partnership registry - the first in the state - may not do as much to increase the availability of health insurance to same-sex couples as once thought.

Insurance leaders on Wednesday said the new registry doesn't change a state law that limits the ability of insurance companies to offer policies that cover domestic partners.

"I would say it is going to be hard, if not impossible, for a small business to find that type of coverage in the near term," said Scot Buxton, vice president with HRH, the Lawrence insurance firm formerly known as Charlton Manley.

A spokesman for Kansas Insurance Commissioner Sandy Praeger said that all the talk surrounding domestic partnerships has spurred the office to ask the Kansas attorney general for a legal opinion on the issue.

Spokesman Bob Hanson said there were questions about whether providing insurance to domestic partners violated a provision of the Kansas constitutional amendment that bans gay marriage.

Hanson said Praeger, of Lawrence, was not seeking the opinion in an attempt to derail coverage for domestic partners.

"People shouldn't read anything into this," Hanson said. "It is just a matter of course. It is just to ensure that we're following a constitutional path."

Attorney General Paul Morrison already has issued a legal opinion stating Lawrence's registry wasn't in conflict with the amendment, but he hasn't issued an opinion on the specific insurance question.

Insurance company speaks

The Lawrence registry does not require any company to offer health benefits to domestic partners. But supporters argued some companies wanted to, but needed the registry to provide documentation to insurance companies.

Graham Bailey, vice president of communications for Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas, said that was not a major sticking point. Instead, he said, state law simply doesn't allow policies that include domestic partners to be sold to small Kansas businesses.

Bailey said Blue Cross Blue Shield supports that law.

"It is not something insurance companies want to do," Bailey said. "It certainly is not something we want to do."

The state law applies to group policies that cover 50 people or fewer, Hanson said. The state law "appears" to limit the definition of dependents to spouses and children, Hanson said.

National companies

But there are companies operating in Kansas that provide health benefits to domestic partners. That's because large group policies - covering more than 50 people - can provide coverage to domestic partners. Some policies also are regulated by federal guidelines, not the state's law.

A national gay and lesbian rights Web site lists at least 20 national companies that have a business presence in Lawrence as offering health insurance to domestic partners.

But it was unclear Wednesday how many of those companies require employees to be part of a domestic partnership registry to qualify for the health insurance.

Bailey said Blue Cross Blue Shield has less than a dozen large group policies that cover domestic partners. But he said the company will not accept the Lawrence registry as proof of a valid domestic partnership. Instead, the company requires affidavits be signed.

"We would never do that," Bailey said of relying on the registry.

Bailey said that is partly because the city of Lawrence does not take any responsibility to check the veracity of any of the information people submit to the registry.

Toni Wheeler, director of legal services for the city, confirmed that's the case. The application does require applicants to confirm they are making truthful statements, but the city ordinance does not provide any specific penalties for people who are found to have lied to get on the registry.

'There is a true need'

Bailey said that's one of the reasons the company generally opposes the idea of covering domestic partners. He said he can imagine a situation where a domestic partnership is created simply because someone sees a person who is ill and in need of health insurance.

"They say, 'we'll just join the registry,' and you can get right on and get all these services," Bailey said. "That would be very detrimental to holding down the costs of health insurance."

The whole situation frustrates Steve Maceli, owner of a Lawrence-based catering business. Maceli would like to offer domestic partner benefits but hasn't been able to find an insurance company that allows it.

Maceli said the new registry may not help him immediately, but he hopes if enough people sign up, it will show insurance companies that there is a demand for domestic partner coverage.

"I think this registry is going to be a good way for businesses to tell the insurance companies that there is a true need," Maceli said.

Comments

Lulu 8 years, 1 month ago

This is such wonderful news people! I'll make sure my current life partner and I do more public groping and french kissing. The reactions are a thrill.

purplesage 8 years, 1 month ago

A really unnecessary picture. I'm looking at the online edition. I surely hope the LJW didn't put this photo on the front page. Explain it to the kids who see it, please.

proud_right_winger 8 years, 1 month ago

This is the gays trying to marry and they are threat to sanctity of marriage between MAN and WOMAN. My marriage has been through two affairs and we made it but if the gays start marrying I don't know if we can take that hit. I pray for this to not happen to our great Country and for my children who need a mother and father.

cms 8 years, 1 month ago

Congratulations to the new recognized unions! I'd let you marry!

8 years, 1 month ago

God loves all. If you are happy and you live a happy life then you will prosper. If you are bi, gay, straight, transgender and you are happy then you will prosper. God loves all people, especially happy people.

KS 8 years, 1 month ago

LJW - The last thing we need to see is PDA on the front page. This is disgusting.

Ragingbear 8 years, 1 month ago

How are gays responsible for your infidelity? Sounds to me that you are not accepting that the affairs were your fault. If "gays" getting married will break up your marriage, then what was your marriage for anyways? Sounds to me that you are just living up to the traditions of your faith regarding the "Sanctity of Marriage". So sad to see somebody forcing themselves to live in absolute hell because they are convinced that they have to.

jamoca 8 years, 1 month ago

Is publishing this type of picture the way that the Journal World is trying to get me to buy their paper? This is TERRIBLE!!!

Thanks, but NO THANKS...

imastinker 8 years, 1 month ago

ragingbear - I think that was satire.

I am tired of all the kissing. All day yesterday and then this morning showed people kissing. There's bigger news than this. Besides, I don't want to see anybody kissign that much on the newspaper. It's inappropriate.

squirly 8 years, 1 month ago

To all the "eww, ick, kissing!" people:

Wouldn't you rather see kissing then dead people? Wouldn't you rather see expressions of love, instead of images of hate and violence and death? I've seen some pretty gruesome photographs printed in the LJW. I'll take kissing, personally.

8 years, 1 month ago

kiss...kiss...kiss; show some LOVE. Love is something WE NEED MORE OF. Come on people, are seriously going to let seeing some people kissing make you angry.....I'm so sorry for you!

squirly 8 years, 1 month ago

Sorry about the typo. Apparently, I haven't had enough coffee yet today.

Candice Chandler 8 years, 1 month ago

What's wrong with public displays of affection? Would you rather see pictures of people beating each other to death? All of you who are whining about it are just a bunch of babies! Why can't you all just live and let live???

Frederic Gutknecht IV 8 years, 1 month ago

Is hugging and kissing in public against the law? I hope not but I will continue to break the law if that's the case.

I wonder how long it will be before someone starts talking about necking downtown with the beasts of the field?~) That's the pattern, right?

SettingTheRecordStraight 8 years, 1 month ago

Pictures like that will NOT change hearts and minds to favor the homosexual agenda.

bd 8 years, 1 month ago

GOODBYE LJW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

monkeyhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Include me in the list of those who are grossed out by the photo...........

Sigmund 8 years, 1 month ago

I think the picture was meant to take the attention from the first sentence, "Lawrence's new domestic partnership registry - the first in the state - may not do as much to increase the availability of health insurance to same-sex couples as once thought."

In fact, this registry creates no legal right or responsibility between the couple nor third parties like insurance companies. The only exception being the City of Lawrence is obligated to maintain the worthless registry! As far as can be found not a single employer requires a governmental domestic partner registry in order to offer benefits to their employees' domestic partners. Further, the registry is subject to the Kansas Open Records Act and ANYONE regardless of their motives may get a copy of the list by simply requesting a copy. And all this can be yours for a mere $75! http://www.lawrenceks.org/adminservices/domestic_partnership/faq.php

Honestly, it is a waste of everyones time and effort. The only difference between this and registering a vanity tag with "MANLUV" or "LEZLUV" is that your $75 will allow you to drive your '69 Volvo beater on the roads of Kansas for a year. It is utterly useless.

kmat 8 years, 1 month ago

The LJW might have done those of us that aren't bigoted a HUGE favor. All the right wing whiners are offended. GREAT!!!! Now quit posting your bigoted b.s. and go to the Topeka papers website. Topeka is still in the stone ages and will accept your bigoted views.

Jezebels_mom 8 years, 1 month ago

You guys dissing the kissing are mean - how comfortable would you be with a dozen photographers in your faces? I've seen pictures (and interviews) of this couple on other news sites where they seem very comfortable and very much in love - I think the picture's awkwardness says more about the skills of the photographer than the couple...

acg 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm a liberal person. I believe that we should be able to love and marry whomever we choose. But, that being said, I don't want to open the paper (computer) first thing in the a.m. and have that be what I see. I just had two days of stomach flu, people. Don't gross me out!!

Sean Livingstone 8 years, 1 month ago

Hugging and kissing should be banned on newspaper? So you also mean that hugging and kissing should not be allowed on national television? That's stone age thinking.

BTW, why is "marriage" supposed to be just the entitlement between a female and a male? Why is " marriage" reserved only for human creation (there are many childless couples out there and they should not be married in the first place?)? The only argument is religion. Their marriage will never affect my rights, unlike crimes like drink and drive, aggrevated battery... I support their union and marriage, even though I'm married to a female (a male myself) and have children.

fayrae 8 years, 1 month ago

I can't believe there is so many narrow minded people that live in Lawrence, KS! I am a heterosexual and a supporter of same sex partners. If you don't like to see same sex people or any one show affection, don't LOOK. This is Lawrence, KS for cry en out loud, the most liberal town in Kansas.

whatintheworld 8 years, 1 month ago

You know I don't like this picture at all..... I know some say that I am bigoted because of it, but you know what I DON'T CARE!! I don't think that this picture is appropriate for all viewers. (MY CHILDREN!!) I think that it is VERY poor taste on the part of the LJW. It was put there to stir trouble. I looked at the other pictures that this THAD took and clearly the ones that said that this was a celebration for the same sex couples of this city were not chosen!!!!! So in my view LJW made a mockery of the same sex couples and clearly used this picture to fire everyone up. By the way to the other same sex couples who didn't feel it appropriate to have to show public affection and have it blasted on the front page of the paper....THANK YOU. Love is something shared between two people........spontaneous signs of affection...kissing are wonderful, but posing just to pose for a newspaper photographer.....hmmm.....I thought this was supposed to be about the two people....great...happy for you....but why when you know this is so controversial and like it or not not the norm....throw it in everone's face???

Roadkill_Rob 8 years, 1 month ago

Donquipunch and bd, Good riddance.

right_thinker, Everyone in Kansas has known Lawrence is gay-friendly for years and it continues to be one of the most vibrant towns in Kansas. And FYI, nothing you can do can change that even though you'd like us to be wiped off the map.

fayrae, Keep in mind that the trolls on this board who oppose this subject are few and far between in the overall population of Lawrence. I suspect some don't even live here but hate liberals so much they get off on spewing their hatred on these boards.

mom_of_three 8 years, 1 month ago

Doesn't it seem a little unconstitutional that an amendment can prohibit companies from providing benefits to those it wants to provide benefits to?
Sprint already provides insurance and health benefits to same sex partners. Businesses thinking ahead of government..... why do we let discrimination of any kind exist in this day and age is beyond me.....

sportsnut 8 years, 1 month ago

Seriously folks, the picture is freaking everyone out? I can't really believe the photographer thought it was a picture worth publishing. I was at City Hall and saw the couple and witnessed the kiss. The couple was excited, people were cheering, cameras were flashing and the kiss was spontaneous. I'm sure if the couple knew it would be front page news and the topic of so much discussion, they would have planned a much more passionate lip-lock. Now THAT might have been worthy of discussion.

kujayhawk 8 years, 1 month ago

Why does the LJW continue to post these pictures? I don't want to look at pictures of homosexual or hetrosexual couples kissing on the front page of the news.

DaREEKKU 8 years, 1 month ago

If it were to have been a man and a woman kissing during their ceremony then the comment page would be blank. This is something the public needs to see MORE of. If you are too close minded and stubborn to explain how two people of the same gender can love each other without injecting hate and bigotry...then so be it, let it remain your own problem. We're here, we're not going anywhere....grow up and deal with it.

Roadkill_Rob 8 years, 1 month ago

Actually, when I saw the headline and the picture, I thought the discussion would be more geared towards the headline. I figured the neocons would be saying that the registry is a waste of time b/c the insurance companies don't plan on changing policies to accomodate the registry.

But no, I gave too much credit to the neocons. Instead, they're focusing on the picture of an innocent kiss.

DaREEKKU is right. If it was a man and a woman, there would be no discussion about it.

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

Roadkill_Rob (Anonymous) says:

Everyone in Kansas has known Lawrence is gay-friendly for years and it continues to be one of the most vibrant towns in Kansas


Vibrant? Economically Lawrence is not vibrant! Property owners are more than aware of the problems that need to be addressed in this town, and domestic partner insurance is no where near the top of the heap.

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

Ok, LJW, two days of frontpage news and a photo gallery to boot is quite enough. Please go find some news so we don't have to suffer through this tomorrow.

Roadkill_Rob 8 years, 1 month ago

Ceallach,

Right_Thinker said that people will be repulsed by Lawrence b/c of this registry and take their business elsewhere. My argument is that people have known Lawrence is gay-friendly for years but people continue to come here to shop, see live music, etc...this makes Lawrence the most vibrant town in Kansas, even during the summer when the students are gone.

I agree that property owners have problems and real estate is too expensive but that is a different subject. No town is perfect but Lawrence, to me, is the best town to live in in Kansas.

whatintheworld 8 years, 1 month ago

Dareekku

Oh, we all know that you are here.....Thanks for letting all of us straight people know that we need to see more gay people kissing!!! That won't change our own beliefs, just as us NOT wanting to see pictures of this on the front page of the paper will change yours. SEEMS TO ME THAT INSTEAD OF TRYING TO STAND OUT IN THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS YOU SHOULD TRY TO FIT IN, NOT RUB IT IN. I PERSONALLY DON'T GIVE A HOOT WHO YOU LOVE OR DON'T LOVE. IRONICALLY....ALL THE ATTENTION GAY COUPLES "HATE" TO GET IS DO IN PART THAT THEY WANT TO MAKE A BIG DEAL THAT THEY ARE GAY!!!! POINT OF THE MATTER IS "DON'T CARE THAT YOU ARE HERE, DON'T CARE THAT YOU AREN'T GOING AWAY, AND WILL GROW UP AND DEAL WITH IT....JUST AS SOON AS YOU DO!!!!"

Frederic Gutknecht IV 8 years, 1 month ago

Marion, I'm still here wandering: Why ON EARTH are you so in love with yourself? Why do you care to spout incessantly about this?

amazed 8 years, 1 month ago

As far as children are concerned - will they even recognize that this is a photo of two women?

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

Dareekku, see more gay people kissing? Why? It's quite disgusting for heteros, as is heteros kissing for gay people I am sure. So why do we need to see more?

Universe 8 years, 1 month ago

Funny how soo-called 'open minded' gays liplock in public (for us to have to explain to our children), yet fight tooth and nails to get 'all' religious references out of the public - as if the government is somehow pushing a specific religion... THINK!! Who's pushing what?!!

fayrae 8 years, 1 month ago

Roadkill_Rob You do have a point, thx!

countrygirl 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm with the crowd that thinks the picture looks forced--almost staged. There's my major problem with the picture. And gee, LJW, isn't there any other news going on in the world? It's registry that really doesn't mean a whole lot right now. Wasn't there something about a bridge collapse in Minnesota? People dying have to take a back seat to this registry? I really don't get the priorities of this newspaper.

Universe 8 years, 1 month ago

countrygirl: It's simple.. They're democrats.

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

countrygirl, cross reference the domestic registry with the LJW employee base, you might find your question about LJW's priorities answered there.

interestedparty 8 years, 1 month ago

Marion:

Actually, the state regulates only 30% of insurance plans provided by companies in the state; the rest are offered by larger employers who have branches in multiple states. People who work for those companies, many of whom offer DP benefits, will be able to use the registry.

You can keep re-posting on your interpretation of the constitutionality of this ordinance, but most legal experts, including the Attorney General, disagree.

As for the others of you haters who are freaked out by the pic, get over yourselves. It isn't porn, it isn't offensive, and it isn't a big deal. It is love, pure and simple. And your hatred and disgust reveals more about you and your own biases.

Universe 8 years, 1 month ago

As for others of you haters who are freaked out by the mere sight of a religious symbol in public (just as our kissing gays do), get over yourselves. They aren't offensive, and they aren't a big deal. They are of love, pure and simple. And your hatred and disgust towards ALL things clean and pure reveals more about you and your own biases...

Door swings both ways..

Frederic Gutknecht IV 8 years, 1 month ago

Marion, I've wandered down here on this thread to call you a big baby. It really doesn't matter what anybody says about that. I am 100% correct and will be proven correct! I HATE IT when big babies whine and cry because they are hungry, when the power that be know they are hungry and just give them some mushy carrots to shut them up...knowing that they'll be hungry again in a short time! OOOOOOH! MAKETH ME THO MAD!~) You can buy me a stale beer that suffered a long boat ride from some foreign land to pay me for that worthless information. You're welcome. I will now wonder off!~D

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

What happens if couples split? Is there a divorce registry?

perkins 8 years, 1 month ago

I imagine few of us are surprised the insurance industry is not embracing domestic registry. I once worked in the billing department call center of a major insurance company. The callers were patients and doctors' offices wondering where payment for services was. I quit shortly after a new supervisor, not as sneaky as the original, called some of us into her office and said, "I know your job is tough. People will call in and accuse us of delaying payment." Then she cackled a long laugh and said, "Of course, that IS what we are doing, but we don't want to let THEM know that!"

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

Rob, I see your point. But you must realize many property owners are still fuming about paying their taxes last June. We have to deal with groups wanting monies to go to multi-million dollar libraries and ice skating rinks when we cannot seem to afford common maintenance of our streets. The vibrancy of Lawrence is mainly supported by people who do not regularly take in the night life (and I have to disagree with you about shopping, Lawrencians are increasingly taking their shopping to KC or Topeka).

Lawrence has always been a friendly town, and I have loved the diverse populations that contribute to KU and to the city. But that seems to be changing, deeper lines are being drawn between philosophies. Perhaps we have lost the ability to distinguish between tolerance and acceptance. So many posters are labeling anyone who disagrees with them as "haters." Tolerance is being redefined as acceptance when they are entirely different. One can tolerate things that he or she does not accept as part of their personal moral values, and thereby accept another person's right to set his or her individual values and be tolerant of their decision. We seem to be losing that.

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

Ceallach, tolerance is good. The world would only be a better place with extreme tolerance. There should be no problem with others living how they wish. What gets under most people's skin is special interests groups receiving special treatment (and I'm not really taking about the registry).

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

Smitty, guess no one really cares enough to put that much effort into it, huh?

Satirical 8 years, 1 month ago

I just read that the domestic partnership registry is only allowed for TWO individuals. How dare they! I thought the city wanted to be progressive, but it still chooses to discriminate against people who are in favor of bigamy, polygamy, and group marriage/recognized relationships.

The city can't define how 13 adults love each other. People in poly-relationships want to be happy too, and will not be happy until recognized by paying $75 to have their names on a registry with absolutely no legal significance, and having their pictures on the front page of the LJ-Wolrd. You are a bigot hater if you disagree with my opinion or don't think its socially acceptable for a picture of groups of people kissing to be on the front-page of the paper, open to be seen even accidentally by anyone. Bigoted!

In fact, how dare the government define any relationship, it has no right! If someone loves their pets, or furniture, who is the government to discriminate or say that is not true love. Discrimination is wrong and should NEVER be allowed!

P.S. Definition of a bigot from Dictionary.com - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

kneej, I was not addressing the registry either. I can disagree with someone without hating them, and I should be able to disagree without being called a hater. I am also concerned because it seems tolerance is becoming a one-way street.

stuckinthemiddle 8 years, 1 month ago

I'd say that the LJW has a really good grip on what people want to read about... and comment on...

Satirical Good point... maybe you could step forward and get those groups organized and start a campaign to have bigamy, polygamy, and group marriage added to the registry... Never forget: the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

Ragingbear 8 years, 1 month ago

Notice how many people are jumping up and down and screaming about how they don't like people expressing affection for each other? Even the Amish were not that conservative.

And you wonder why the so-called "Christian" marriage is dying out. It's because you are all brainwashed to believe that signs of affection are icky.

People, go get a cootie shot. Then go down to Priscella's and get something battery powered. You might just find that it can strengthen your relationship.

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

smitty (Anonymous) says: The city is charging the domestic registers $75 for a token acknowledgement while the county sells the mariage license for $50.


A racket if ever there was one. "Yes, you're officially gay. That'll be $75."

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

"Explain it to the kids who see it, please."

Here is how I explained it to my kid:

"Two people love each other and they are celebrating their commitment to each other. Kind of like a wedding - but the government refuses to recognize marriage between two men or two ladies."

"That's stupid."

"Get used to it."

Universe 8 years, 1 month ago

Since when has tolerance became the same as acceptance???

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

smitty (Anonymous) says: Baille, maybe you could also explain that the word ladies are women who act like male dominated society expects them to act if they want to be insured a safe existance.


smitty, while homosexual females act masculine and homosexual males act effiminate.......I can tolerate it, but I shore can't understand it....

"boys will be girls and girls will be boys, it's a mixed up world save for Lola..."

Universe 8 years, 1 month ago

Ok.. Here's another question - if being in a gay relationship is right and truly moral then why aren't the two same sex parters designed (by God) to reproduce as men/women can? Now of course if you hate God, you create your own code of ethics and curse everyone else for not 'accepting' them.

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

"maybe you could also explain that the word ladies are women who act like male dominated society expects them to act if they want to be insured a safe existance."

I'll add that to the mix. Womyn,women, girls, lasses, wenches, ladies (women who act like male dominated society expects them to act if they want to be insured a safe existance), chicks, and so forth.

Thanks, man - er, dude. Sir. Whatever.

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

Good question, Universe.

I never did think sterile people should be allowed to marry. Now I have solid, logical backing for that belief.

Now tell me is there someway I can justify killing people who wear clothing of two different materials or stoning to death those damned disrepectful kids I see down at Wal-Marts?

Kat Christian 8 years, 1 month ago

I just don't get it. What has gone wrong with our society that has made same gender people cross the ultimate intimacy line (and I'm trying to say this decreetly) that was intended for man and woman for the purpose of procreation and inimate partnership? I would never offend a gay person nor judge them for their acts (this is God's job) and I would never turn my back on a gay person who needed my help and I would not be unkind to them. I have family members whom I love dearly who are gay. But when I think of the line they cross and call it normal behavior I get an ill feeling in the pit of my stomach. It just isn't right. I disagree with the registry and I am against gay marriage. If, however they want to "play married couple" then I would not be against a civil union. As far as getting benefits such as health insurance as a married couple - I am against this as well. I'm sorry I don't mean to be cruel or unjust but I just don't think being gay is normal behavior - it doesn't matter how long you've lived together. It just isn't normal. I just don't see anything in common with a gay person - for that reason it is difficult to forge a friendship with them.

Kat Christian 8 years, 1 month ago

PS - I really feel offended to have to look at same genders making out and having it appear in news print.

Roadkill_Rob 8 years, 1 month ago

Universe,

To answer your question, maybe I can offer you my theory. Please note that everyone has their own version of morality so let's put that aside and look at things in the natural world...you can include God if you want.

My theory is that homosexuality is Mother Nature's (or God's) way of population control. You cannot deny the fact that this world is over-populated. We've got millions of starving and diseased poor people all over the world that the Earth cannot sustain.

Furthermore, you can see that homosexuality is not just limited to humans. There are signs of homosexuality in animals as well. In a recent event in a London zoo, a same-sex male Flamingo couple adopted a hatchling and have been raising it since birth...male Flamingo's can produce milk in their throat to feed the chick. Here's the story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/gloucestershire/6679315.stm

Let me ask you this, if homosexuality is unnatural and can't reproduce, how come there are so many of them?

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

"you are smater than your post indicates. You used men for males and ladies for females. "

There is a backhanded compliment if ever I did see one. Usually when I talk to my kids I try to to only use the terms "those whose personal gender identity is more akin to the male of the species" or "those whose personal gender identity is more akin to the female of the species," but I didn't want to sound like a richard on the boards.

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

"What has gone wrong with our society..."

Just like "we" are, "they" are born that way.

And for the record, "they" are no different from "us."

Satirical 8 years, 1 month ago

Smitty,

Do you have the URL or link to the study from the U of Seattle, I would be interested in reading it.

Separately, How come no one ever comments on the good arguments made on this post, they just rip apart straw-man arguments, or argument made by the ignorant. Perhaps a good discussion on a LJ-Wolrd comment board is an oxymoron. It's more fun to throw stones and hide.

Also, read and comment on my (Satirical's) last post. I am in desperate need of attention and approval.

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

Cause it's a freakin' bbs.

And the most recent stuff on parthogenesis is in the story on stem cell reserach on msnbc.com:

"In parthenogenesis, an unfertilized egg is stimulated to start dividing as if it had been joined by sperm. It develops for a while under the control of its own DNA. Some species, such as sharks, can reproduce that way. Human eggs can't develop long enough to make a baby."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20090129/

Now lunch is over and it is back to work for me. Have fun kids.

Baille 8 years, 1 month ago

"male Flamingo's can produce milk in their throat to feed the chick."

Wow. If two people kissing chastely in the lips is grossing people out, imagine the horror caused when a gay male father began vomiting milk into his adopted child's mouth.

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

Oh, yea!! We've finally reached the "Design Your Own God" stage of the thread. I love this part, humans are so creative . . and it never shows more than when people start defining their god. Ay, there's the rub, I could never follow a god that I could totally fathom and/or define.

Satirical 8 years, 1 month ago

Words most overused and least understood by Kansas liberals......survey says!

Bigot.... 73.289% Discrimination....25.711% Other....2%

Total = 101%

Satirical 8 years, 1 month ago

Most insurance policies include a disclaimer that says it does not cover "acts of God"

Just FYI

Ragingbear 8 years, 1 month ago

Design your own God? Cool.

I will take the Awesomeness of FSM,

Enhance him with the evil tentacles of Cthulhu,

Replace the Meatballs with Undead Buddhas,

Place the entire "71 Virgins" thing the Muslims have (Rock and Roll),

The sheer sluttiness of Aphrodite/Venus,

The head of that big horned guy in Legend,

Dogs with bees in their mouths that shoot bees at you when they bark,

A Longsword +10,+50 vs. Stupid People,

A Cloak of STFU,

And a harem of hot cyborg sex androids..

mick 8 years, 1 month ago

The registry is nothing but a very expensive political statement. It will cost Lawrence taxpayers at least $100 thousand in a losing legal battle. Can the Kansas Constitution make it any clearer?

Tychoman 8 years, 1 month ago

Summers, your beliefs are unkind and offensive. Who are YOU to judge what is deviant?

You were better off not commenting. Go join the ranks of narrowminded right-wingers who are leaving the LJW. Good riddance.

Tychoman 8 years, 1 month ago

"My marriage has been through two affairs and we made it but if the gays start marrying I don't know if we can take that hit."-proud right winger.

And how are two men or two women who love each other a bigger hit against your pathetic marriage than TWO affairs? Smooth move, ex-lax.

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

smitty, smitty, smitty, many posts are not intended as replies to you . . my post was not a follow-up to your "scientific discussion." Although I do find the use of 'scientific discussion', as applied to anonymous posts to an LJW article, more than a little amusing. I was just poking a little fun at roadkill. Lighten up already.

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

bear, I agree, the horned guy from Legend is IMHO the quintessential vision of evil!

countrygirl 8 years, 1 month ago

I'm still trying to figure our how a same sex relationship is going to affect PRW's marriage?? Or is there something else about these affairs that we aren't being told? Anything else seems like apples and oranges to me. You either have a good relationship or you don't.

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

Tom Maupin was gay and died of AIDS complications.

Ceallach 8 years, 1 month ago

Lest there be a misunderstanding, my "true :)" was for 75x55.

Satirical 8 years, 1 month ago

It appears no one can give me a legitimate logical argument of why two homosexual couples should be allowed to marry or have civil unions and group marriage/polygamy/bigamy should not.

Unless you make up some arbitrary distinction (see yourworstnightmare) that because polygamy (like same-sex marriage) is illegal it should not be given the same protection and rights as only those homosexuals, and none others, that are allowed into civil unions. Any argument you try to give me would be discriminatory.

I don't think homosexuals realize how the approval or denial of polygamy affects them.

The argument is, if you allow gay marriage, you by logical extention must also allow polygamy, bigamy and group marriage. If you (like many Americans) don't want polygamy and such, you are using the same arguments against polygamy as someone can use against same-sex marriage. You can't advocate the one and not advocate the other, it is logically impossible.

Sean Livingstone 8 years, 1 month ago

  1. Being gays or homosexual doesn't mean one is a liberal. That's for sure, I'm a religious person but I'm just as liberal cos to be forgiving is to be liberal.
  2. AIDS is not affecting the gay community, it also penetrates the hete. community. Partners in a marriage relationship should be faithful to one another, that is the key and only way to fight AIDS. Acknowledging the marriage of gays makes the control of unfaithful relationships on hold.

Most importantly, I recently watched a program on internet by a "conservative" mom who happens to be a porn star. She's trying to teach moms how to be a good conservative mom and yet work in the porn industry.... ohh... conservative...

kneejerkreaction 8 years, 1 month ago

livingstone (Anonymous) says: "2. AIDS is not affecting the gay community, ....."


You are joking, right?

Kat Christian 8 years, 1 month ago

No Braile I differ from that opinion that gay people are born "that" way. I think somewhere in their childhood when children are amadexous (sp?) in their sexuality something along the line happens that persuedes them into the sexual reality they become or understand and are comfortable with whether homosexual or hetersexual. I witnessed it myself in my own family with at least 4 members from the time they were infants and toddlers. It is a survivial mechanisem that we all share in our growth process, however some come to terms with homosexuality for security in themselves to be accepted. Since our society has been working so hard to force others to accept this way of life I think more people feel they are safe being gay then hetersexual - lest demands of them. I think it is sad and un-natural but I wouldn't condemn a human being for loving a person of the same sex as they. Also, I do not blame the gay community for the spread of AIDS. OMG the 60s - everybody was doing everybody back then so it is unfair to blame the gay community for this. So please don't hate me for my opinion. I would never be self-righteous or cruel to a gay person becuase I take ALL people at face value. You treat me right I give you the same respect no. I would be honest to say that I do not agree with gayness but would never try to judge or tell a gay person how to live their life. Love is beautiful no matter who it is between. And I've met gay couples who have wonderful relationships. I just can't get past the intimate part of it - that they actually do sexual things to each other - it's just not natural. So anyway please don't be angry with me for my honesty.

Mr_B9 8 years, 1 month ago

I do not like the picture nor do I like all the attention this is getting. My opinion, so kiss off. Tell you what else I dont like. I dont like seeing dogs crap in public, women breast feeding their children in public, people picking their nose in public, people groping in public, get the POINT. Maybe it is a great day for the gays to have a registry. To me, big deal. Just go give the money grubbing city their measly $75.00 and get on with it. I dont believe you saw my wife or I in the paper celebrating with hugs and kisses when we legally got registered. (Married). A REAL MARRIAGE THAT HAS SOME VALIDITY. One more thing, this registry has nothing to do with the same sex being registered as much as it has to do with the city getting public awareness and national press time. Oh yeah and the $75.00. Good luck and I hope you are not duped because you needed the special attention.

Mr_B9 8 years, 1 month ago

Americorps, you obviously did not get the POINT. Not even sure your capable after that post. Besides, what I like and dislike is my business. Not yours or anyone elses. As far as me living in a cave I think that would be awesome. Know any for sale? PS: Just because it is on TV does not mean I have to like that either.

Kodiac 8 years, 1 month ago

"It appears no one can give me a legitimate logical argument of why two homosexual couples should be allowed to marry or have civil unions and group marriage/polygamy/bigamy should not." -- Satirical

Easy. If we allow polygamous marriages, I would never get a date dude.

Seems "logically legitimate" to me anyway...

Need to explain why "2" homosexual couples" as opposed to "1" couple?

Polygamy is actually the original "natural" state. Don't believe me. Take a biology class and a world's culture class (or go watch the Elk in Colorado during mating season in the Fall. Dmn things are polygamous as hll). We (meaning humans) are built for polygamy and the majority of societies that has ever existed here on earth have been polygamous.

Monogamy is the "unnatural" state. Monogamy is a societal correction for the natural state of polygamy.

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