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City seeks to delay Wal-Mart lawsuit

New commission wants chance to revisit case before Monday’s trial

April 12, 2007

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New City Commission looking into settling Wal-Mart suit

The Lawrence City Commission is testing the waters for a possible settlement in the lawsuit over a proposed Wal-Mart store at 6th Street and Wakarusa Drive. Enlarge video

City commissioners want to test the waters on a possible settlement of a lawsuit over a proposed Wal-Mart store at Sixth Street and Wakarusa Drive.

Commissioners confirmed Thursday that the city sent a letter to attorneys representing Wal-Mart and the property owners of the proposed site.

The letter asks Wal-Mart and the property owners to seek a continuance of the lawsuit, which is scheduled to go to trial Monday. Mayor Sue Hack said the continuance would provide time to schedule a Wal-Mart discussion on the city's May 1 agenda.

It would be the first chance for the City Commission to have a public discussion since Rob Chestnut and Mike Dever joined the City Commission following the April 3 elections. Chestnut and Dever replaced Commissioners Mike Rundle and David Schauner, who made up two-thirds of a majority that opposed the most recent plan to build a Wal-Mart at the site.

"The new commission should be given the opportunity to ask questions and hear comments," Hack said.

Hack said the May 1 agenda item would not include consideration of a specific development plan. Instead, it would be an opportunity for the city and the developer to openly discuss issues surrounding the project.

It is not known whether Wal-Mart owners will agree to seek a continuance, Hack said.

"I don't know what their thoughts will be," Hack said of the plaintiffs. "I know there is a lot of mistrust on both sides."

Bill Newsome, a member of the 6Wak group that owns the property, said he was not prepared to comment on the city's request. Attempts to reach representatives for Wal-Mart for comment were unsuccessful.

There is disagreement on the City Commission about seeking the continuance. Commissioner Boog Highberger said he is opposed to the idea. Highberger had joined Rundle and Schauner in voting against the last Wal-Mart plan in October.

"I was not satisfied with the result of the last attempt to settle this," Highberger said. "I think we need to go to court and have this settled once and for all."

Hack said she wants to avoid a trial if possible.

"Our attorneys are prepared to proceed to trial on Monday," Hack wrote in the letter, "but if Wal-Mart and 6Wak are interested in exploring zoning and plans in a planning setting, rather than in a courtroom, we would prefer that opportunity."

The Wal-Mart project has drawn opposition from several neighbors, who believe the store would create traffic problems for their neighborhoods. Other community members have expressed concern that the store will hurt other retail areas of the community.

"It would be extremely unfortunate," Gwen Klingenberg, a west Lawrence resident who has led opposition to the plan, said of a settlement. "We have shown : that the traffic has nowhere to go to get off of Sixth Street except through our neighborhood. We're looking at some child or adult getting hurt by traffic."

Wal-Mart officials have disagreed with contentions the neighborhood has made about traffic, pointing to a positive recommendation from the city's planning staff when the plan was last considered. Wal-Mart attorneys have said they have met all the city's requirements to build a store at the site. They have alleged their building permit was rejected for political reasons, an allegation the city has denied.

Comments

buffalo_star 7 years, 6 months ago

i love this blog when walmart is the subject, a cup of joe some soft music and expert opinions its priceless!

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Michael Capra 7 years, 6 months ago

I WANT TO GO TO TRAIL AND SEE BOOG,SCHAUNER,AND RUNDLE GO DOWN IN A BLAZE AND COST THE CITY MILLIONS THEN RECALL BOOG

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Sigmund 7 years, 6 months ago

Shocked, shocked and stunned. And here I took vacation to watch Finger Wilgren Shauner and Boog take the stand.

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DaREEKKU 7 years, 6 months ago

Who are the property owners again? Just curious....they are as much as fault as Wal Mart for wasting the City's Tax Dollars...

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KsTwister 7 years, 6 months ago

Bill Newsome, 6 Wak Land Investments,property rights were established in late 2001 and early 2002 when their zoning and final development plan were put into place.

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 6 months ago

As predicted before the election...

4 commissioners bought...... just like Washington D.C.

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dthroat 7 years, 6 months ago

I am not a Wally World supporter by any means, but this just sucks for the property owners. The city wants to LISTEN to ideas - no reason this won't wind up in COURT again after more delays and MORE costs for legal fees.

Court is set for MONDAY. Can't we just get it over with. I would think MORE DELAYS would actually cost the city more than proceeding with the trial.

(UNLESS of course the city knows it has a good chance of losing - which it does.)

Let's just get it done and over with, no matter who wins.

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 6 months ago

The Wal-Mart You Don't Know

The giant retailer's low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart's relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to the unemployment line?

By: Charles Fishman | Photographs By: Livia Corona

A gallon-sized jar of whole pickles is something to behold. The jar is the size of a small aquarium. The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian, their shapes exaggerated by the glass. It weighs 12 pounds, too big to carry with one hand. The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess; it is entrancing, and also vaguely unsettling. This is the product that Wal-Mart fell in love with: Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles.

Wal-Mart priced it at $2.97--a year's supply of pickles for less than $3! "They were using it as a 'statement' item," says Pat Hunn, who calls himself the "mad scientist" of Vlasic's gallon jar. "Wal-Mart was putting it before consumers, saying, This represents what Wal-Mart's about. You can buy a stinkin' gallon of pickles for $2.97. And it's the nation's number-one brand."

Therein lies the basic conundrum of doing business with the world's largest retailer. By selling a gallon of kosher dills for less than most grocers sell a quart, Wal-Mart may have provided a ser-vice for its customers. But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away. And the fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic's operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us "every day low prices." It's the story of what that pressure does to the companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is not just the world's largest retailer. It's the world's largest company--bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what

number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. And in its own category of general merchandise and groceries, Wal-Mart no longer has any real rivals. It does more business than Target, Sears, Kmart, J.C. Penney, Safeway, and Kroger combined. "Clearly," says Edward Fox, head of Southern Methodist University's J.C. Penney Center for Retailing Excellence, "Wal-Mart is more powerful than any retailer has ever been." It is, in fact, so big and so furtively powerful as to have become an entirely http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

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KsTwister 7 years, 6 months ago

There will be loses no matter which way it goes, that is a fact. At least Chestnut and Dever knows what millions look like on paper, hopefully enough to save taxpayers from the bloodletting. Shauner didn't care the cost. I would not want to lose in court and still have to pay them while they build it which is worse then a smaller Walmart compromise.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

Merrill, isn't this the same relentless pressure that you expect Congress to put on Big Pharma for the medicare drug program?

Medicare should contract out to Walmart to get the biggest bang for the recipients' prescription benefit dollars.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

I can't wait for Walmart to get into the medical clinic business. That is the solution to the high cost of healthcare in the US.

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Jeanne Cunningham 7 years, 6 months ago

I know they'll get my business. If you choose not to shop there, that IS your choice. That's why they call it "free enterprise".

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blackwalnut 7 years, 6 months ago

Didn't take long for the developers' boys to start dancing for them what brung them.

Shame on Amyx and Hack.

God I mess Schauner - a brilliant and unselfish man who sure doesn't need the $9k a year from the commissioner's job.

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blackwalnut 7 years, 6 months ago

I think free enterprise by definition excludes subsidies and breaking the law.

Walmart doesn't engage in free enterprise. They bribe and break the law and exploit people, and suck subsidies from communities. Walmart has not played fair since old man Walton died. His heirs are selfish immoral snakes.

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

BRIBERY!

BOUGHT AND PAID FOR POLITICIANS!

SORRY TO SEE IT COME TO OUR LITTLE TOWN TOO.

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Keith 7 years, 6 months ago

What a great strong negotiating position, on your back with your feet in the air.

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Michael Capra 7 years, 6 months ago

MY BAD,,TRIAL,LETS GO TO TRIAL all the people in west lawrence came out to vote.Its one person in west lawrence klinkenberg that dosent want it the rest saw all the bad that schauner,rundle,and boog have done now the guys with a brain are trying to save the city millions. I still say lets go to trial

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dthroat 7 years, 6 months ago

OK, I know this is wasted on most of the people on this board, but can we EVER get over the fact this lawsuit is NOT just about Walmart. It could have been about ANY big company building there (unless it was really upscale and the neighbors wanted it). This entire lawsuit is about one commission agreeing with it and saying it fits with "the plan", and then changing the rules after another commission was in.

This is Wak6 (not just walmart) fighting this. Walmart will gain if they win, but it is the developers fighting for what (appears) to be their rights.

This is all about how much the city wants to spend because some neighbors don't like the idea, even though the area was zoned (at one point) for this TYPE of developement.

I say, since the city has spent so many thousands of dollars to this point - GET IT ON. Let the court decide (whichever way it goes) and GET OVER IT.!!!

Please do not spend MORE money bringing this back to interminal hearings before the city commission/planning boards, only to maybe be back in front of the courts (at the cost of a few MORE thousands of tax dollars).

Bring on the fight and may the legally right side win. (Can't wait for Wildgen's and Finger's testimony)

Let's just get this done, one way or the other.

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

There is no room for any big box store at 6th and Wakarusa. When the planned development goes in at the NE corner that will be 3 corners packed with retail, and 4 lanes - down the road from the high school.

That corner is oversaturated with retail now.

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dthroat 7 years, 6 months ago

Then WHY !!!!??? was it planned that way way back then??? That is what is supposed to go there, the neighbors just don't like it.

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

"the neighbors just don't like it."

The west side voted in Dever & Chestnut.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

"God I mess Schauner - a brilliant and unselfish man who sure doesn't need the $9k a year from the commissioner's job."

...because he is paid big bucks for being a pimp for the teachers union.....

give me a break.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

We have boiled it down to the commissioners who are bought by big development vs the commissioners who are bought by big government.

Where are the commissioners who represent the regular folk, those who do not make the big bucks that the development community make, and those that are not provided with the stability of government employment and benefits and yearly salary increases provided to the "unclassified" elite of government employees?

Who represents the average Joe?

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

Godot: Explain how comm. are bought by government.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

"

Posted by coneflower (anonymous) on April 12, 2007 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Godot: Explain how comm. are bought by government."

the majority of people in Lawrence are employed by the government, in one way or another. They make contributions to candidates who will represent their interests as government employees.

What is surprising about that?

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KsTwister 7 years, 6 months ago

"The west side voted in Dever & Chestnut."

Everybody helped,if the west never counted they would still be voted in--they were already placed. The west just upped the numbers in those placements.

And I thought walnuts post said "mess Shauner" and had to agree with that one.

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

The west side voted in Dever & Chestnut.

Look it up in the ljworld.com,

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texburgh 7 years, 6 months ago

Sadly too many all over Lawrence have given up. A tiny number of residents voted and they voted in two guys who are owned by developers, builders, and real estate interests. Look at the finance reports. Most people simply looked at the signs or decided they liked the candidate's kids. There was no issue campaign at all.

But the neighbors of 6th and Wakarusa - the residents who have to live there - have objected to big box development there from the beginning - even before it was Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart demonstrates their complete lack of respect for the communities they intend to conquer. If the city commission backs the residents, sue the city. They've got more money and more lawyers than any city can afford and their intent is to wear you down into submission.

Don't settle. If the city loses so be it but don't give them their way just because they are arrogant enough to believe everyone should bow before them.

And it doesn't help that our own developers' greed is so intense that they are willing to destroy the community for a buck. Newsome is a disgrace to this community. For him and his ilk this is about their income and the community can be damned.

They can craft reasonble developments on that property that respect the community and still make money - maybe just a little less.

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armyguy 7 years, 6 months ago

There is no bigger Wal-mart hater than me in this town; however this lawsuit has gone on too long. Wal-mart and 6pack agreed to the regulations and the former commission decided that they could over rule them. Spending my taxpayer money on a lawsuit that cannot be won. What a waste of time, I won't shop there; however Wal-Mart has the right to the property as long as they comply with zoning rules.

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Sigmund 7 years, 6 months ago

I neither hate nor love Walmart. When I need a gallon of pickles I'll be headed there, when I don't I won't. But this has never been about Walmart and it has always been about El Merc with their bought and paid for majority on the Kommission. They ran on a platform of No To Walmart and to fulfill that campaign promise they illegally denied the property owners of their rights to develop after the fact.

Why? To protect Le Merc from competition. You claim that Chestnut and Dever were bought and paid for by Walmart, but neither of them have an interest in Walmart, unlike the previous Kommission and their relationship with La Merc.

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Jean1183 7 years, 6 months ago

Everyone that doesn't want it, don't shop there. No business, no money, the store will close.........simple.

Build it and lets see what the MAJORITY actually wants.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 6 months ago

This deal was struck before the election. There will be some window-dressing "concessions" but Wal-Mart will be allowed to build at least a 130,000 sq. ft. store.

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

I live on the West side. As a matter of fact, my home is directly to the North of the proposed site for the Wal-Mart. Let them build the Wal-Mart and lets get it over with.

The West Lawrence Neighborhood Association is a joke. It represents a small extreme slice of the people who live in the area. Most people do not care if a Wal-Mart locates in the area; that is why they voted for Dever and Chestnut.

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

Bozo --

That is one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. The final proposal that was ever-so smartly rejected by the previous commission was for a 99,000 square foot store. The ultimate settlement will allow them to build a store that is no more than 99,000 square feet with various aesthetically-pleasing design concepts.

You are so informed. Where do you get your information on these issues??? Keep crying in your beer over the loss of Rundle and Schauner on the commission; most of the people who actually live in the neighborhood affected by the new Wal-Mart are doing cartwheels right now.

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MJFarmermac 7 years, 6 months ago

Marion. ENOUGH with the idiotic song already. I get it. Any business that is locally owned and operated is some kind of French, communist hangout, right? Is your last name McCarthy? Sure, Wal Mart is just what this town needs for economic development. I'm sure that people from Topeka, Kansas City, and every town in a 30 mile radius will flock to Lawrence to see our new Wal Mart, since a Wal Mart opening is such a rare occurrence. All of these people talking about job creation and economic development aren't really thinking about our situation. Lawrence will never compete with Topeka and Kansas City by building more big box stores- KC and Topeka already have them, and they're bigger than ours. Lawrence's best economic bet is to keep and develop unique businesses that you can't find ANYWHERE ELSE. That's why people come here. We're geographically sandwiched between two larger cities, and no commission is ever going to change that. So, is adding more big boxes and beige housing going to bring people from Olathe here? Oh yeah, they already have big boxes and beige houses in Olathe. Back to Wal Mart. Suing cities for making their own decisions about the usage of land under their jurisdiction is part of Wal Mart's corporate policy. They do this to every town that tries to shut the door on them. (See Manhattan a few years ago) Wherever you stand on wanting another Wal Mart, it ought to make you mad that some big company is trying to tell our city what it can and can't do.

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JohnBrown 7 years, 6 months ago

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. The Walmart proposal was denied by the city commission on March 26th, 2003, a WEEK BEFORE THE PLC CANDIDATES WERE ELECTED.

The commissioners who voted to deny Walmart were: Mike Rundle, Sue Hack, David Dunfield, and Jim Henry. Only Marty Kennedy voted to support Walmart.

Take home lesson: 1) The PLC candidates inherited this lawsuit, they did not create it.

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nwbearcat 7 years, 6 months ago

I agree with kshiker, the West Lawrence Neighborhood Association is a joke.

Unfortunately, the "leaders" of that group represent and promote themselves as spokespersons for the WHOLE area. The city commissioners, parks and recreation staff, and newspaper folks are too naive or lazy to find out or listen to differing opinions.

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

Thanks for "getting the facts straight" JohnBrown. Did you happen to check the vote when the revised settlement offer was rejected by the commission last year? The last time I checked it was 3 to 2 with Highberger, Schauner and Rundle on the prevaling side. You may want to study up on that, but I appreciate the "clarification."

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buffalo_star 7 years, 6 months ago

i have lived in several trailers, comfortable and cheat two of my favorite things. one fact is almost without doubt regarding walmart if they build it we will come.

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

While I am not filled with a warm, fuzzy feeling at the thought of shopping at Wal-Mart (large crowds on weekends), I'm very disappointed with the past commission for playing politics on this issue.

The area is zoned to support a big box-style commercial retailer and the PLC commissioners and the ultra-liberal leaders of the West Lawrence Neighborhood Association have simply chosen to unfairly discriminate against Wal-Mart's application.

The majority of the neighborhood do not have a problem with the construction of a store at that location. So, Bozo and all his friends can stay in East Lawrence and shop at the Merc and the people who actually live in West Lawrence will deal with the reprecussions of allowing a Wal-Mart in the area, which I am prepared to do.

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yourworstnightmare 7 years, 6 months ago

Those in west Lawrence who voted for Dever and Chestnut will get their comeuppance: a nice big ol' Walmart in their back yard, clogging up traffic and bringing in the "wrong element". Walmart will provide those jobs the Devernut invoked during the campaign.

Congratulations!

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

Scenebooster --

Considering the entire area around the current Wal-Mart location on South Iowa is zoned for big-box style commercial retail, it would be highly unlikely that the area around 6th and Wakarusa will be developed in a similar fashion. However, that was a very nice attempt at comparison.

On citing the majority support of the new neighborhood for Wal-Mart, I believe that "public opinion poll" was conducted on April 3rd. You might remember it, that was when the residents of West Lawrence overwhelmingly and forcefully removed the 2 aging hippie-liberals from city government.

Wal-Mart bent over backwards to comply with the zoning-related requirements and demands of the city's planning staff on the settlement offer rejected last year by the commission. I'm hoping (or I regret my vote) that Chestnut and Dever are reasonable enough to give them the chance to open a store at that location.

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Haiku_Cuckoo 7 years, 6 months ago

Don't shop at Wal-Mart! What's that? Dill pickles on sale? How can I resist?

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Crossfire 7 years, 6 months ago

Do not build it... Tear the other one down too... Sam "Quantrill" Walton is not welcome here.

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Haiku_Cuckoo 7 years, 6 months ago

Wal-Mart customers: Fat gals on Rascal scooters Guys in NASCAR shirts

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EXks 7 years, 6 months ago

Isn't there a petition recall process??

Form a coalition, start a petition recall process and get rid of these commissioners!!!

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News_to_me 7 years, 6 months ago

So, what's going to go in where Dillon's is at 6th and Wakarusa after Walmart slowly strangles the life out of it? It seems to me they don't do a great business at that location as it is. Perhaps, an ice rink or a jai alai facility or indoor bocce court would work. Then maybe we could some more walmarts in town. Put one on East 23rd. There's not enough traffic out there plus Orscheln and Vanderbilts need some competition. Then one in North Lawrence. Maybe it could sell Harley's or scooters. Then instead of welcome to your Lawrence Walmart, it could be welcome to your Walmart Lawrence.

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yourworstnightmare 7 years, 6 months ago

Now that West Side Deli has moved downtown and Hereford House has closed, there is no reason to go to 6th and Wakarusa anymore. Walmart would be a fine addition to the "neighborhood".

I hope you East Topekans are happy with your Devernut choice.

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News_to_me 7 years, 6 months ago

99,000 to 130,000 sq ft is restricted? How big is South Wally World?

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Boston_Charley 7 years, 6 months ago

If there are West Lawrence residents who do not agree with the direction taken by the West Lawrence Neighborhood Association, maybe they need to actually get involved in that association and make themselves heard on issues of concern to the neighborhood. Go passive, and people you aren't wild about will take over. Witness the recent city election.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

"Mike Rundle, Sue Hack, David Dunfield, and Jim Henry. Only Marty Kennedy voted to support Walmart.

Take home lesson: 1) The PLC candidates inherited this lawsuit, they did not create it."

Dunfield and Rundle were not part of the PLC? That's news to me.

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blackwalnut 7 years, 6 months ago

Rumor from a Dillon's employee is that for some time now the Dillons at 6th & Wakarusa has been slated for an upgrade to a superstore.

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Crossfire 7 years, 6 months ago

Haiku_Cuckoo

What was that about fat rascals riding scooter girls around the parking lot...?

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blackwalnut 7 years, 6 months ago

People who shop at Wal-Mart are uninformed about the company's practices.

Either that, or they are immoral. I choose to believe the former about them.

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Crossfire 7 years, 6 months ago

200,000 sq. ft. is a building one block long 200 ft thick. The south Sprawl-Mart looks that big to me.

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News_to_me 7 years, 6 months ago

Thanks harley but there have been a lot of articles to read and much info to forget especially when adding comments on these sites. The Walmart site says that the national average size for a Supercenter is 185,000 sq ft, a discount store 101,000. I don't recall the initial request by Walmart as far as size but I'll take your word for it. As you said, restrictions to size have been and continue to be a point of contention.

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Wellington 7 years, 6 months ago

As you lay down your vial bigotry toward progress and accuse commissioners of being bought by the developers, you remain in the dark like a scared child. I promise if you open your eyes and embrace progress it will turn out fine.

Welcome to America! If you had your way we would be the United Colonies of England, God save the Queen!

The same dollars that you accuse commissioners of being bought with spend the same way as those that keep the Wal-Mart machine going. So if you are against Wal-Mart, don't shop there. Fairly simple.

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FreetoBe47 7 years, 6 months ago

The law is the law and I guarantee you that they have the big boys on their side. I am not a big Wally World fan myself and have gone there as little as possible. To continue to fight something and cost taxpayers lots of unnecessary money is wrong when in the end they will win!!!

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News_to_me 7 years, 6 months ago

harley- the difference between items carried might say something. Superstore approx 142,000 items. Discount store 120,000. You know, when they build it, they will make it as big as they possibly can, especially now that they have leverage with the city trying to settle.

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nwbearcat 7 years, 6 months ago

Uhhhh, Boston Charlie, too many beans??

Your high octane comment reflects some arrogance.

Why do people NEED to become involved with your organization to have an opinion on issues? Is there a requirement that all residents of West Lawrence need their opinions filtered through your association? Is the WLNA a social club?

I prefer to talk directly to those persons in charge of affecting change-- I'm quite capable of independent thought.

Please stop using the royal "we" when discussing "neighborhood issues."

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Boston_Charley 7 years, 6 months ago

nwbearcat--I don't know whose post you're referring to--I'm not in the West Lawrence Neighborhood Association, and I didn't use the word "we". I just said if people don't like what's being done, they should get involved and do something themselves.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

Walmart and 6Wak would be foolish to take the bait on the "lets wait" proposal from the mayor.

Remember what happened with the smoking petition?

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Haiku_Cuckoo 7 years, 6 months ago

Time for a protest! Form a drum circle, fellas! Wear your tie-dye shirt!

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WWoftheW 7 years, 6 months ago

The new commissioners were bought to stop the litigation becuase the city has a very good chance of winning.

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MJFarmermac 7 years, 6 months ago

Wellington (as in Beef?)... "As you lay down your vial bigotry toward progress and accuse commissioners of being bought by the developers, you remain in the dark like a scared child. I promise if you open your eyes and embrace progress it will turn out fine."...

Oh! I see! Progress. We don't have a Wal Mart.. oh wait. We do. So I guess we don't have any minimum wage jobs... oh yeah, I guess we do. Cheap stuff made in China... yeah, you can get that at the other Wal Mart. So how, exactly, does building a Wal Mart, just like every other burg in the country, indicate progress exactly? Progress towards what? Look to Olathe around Strang Line Road. Is that progress? If that looks like progress to you, then YOU are the scared child in the dark. People talk on this forum about the "Kommission," like the progressives were a bunch of KGB or something, but if you ask me, an entire city made of identical big box stores and all painted a uniform color of off-white or beige looks a lot more like the Soviet Bloc to me. "Everyone, everything, and every business must be the same Komrade, or we will call it Le Merc and say you're against progress." BTW, if something is abhorrent, it is "vile." "Vial," is a container, as in a "Vial of crack," which is what you must be smoking to think a new Wal Mart indicates "progress."

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WWoftheW 7 years, 6 months ago

Wal-Mart never corrected the developer pushing Planning Department, who were told to find a way to get it approved, that they are not a variety store. The most important thing to note is the progressive city commission did not have a vote on the Wal-Mart until last year. Sue Hack and company before the Schauner, Boog team voted against the Wal-Mart. Quit blaming the progressives. A department store is not allowed under the zoning that is being discussed in court. The city did NOT change half way through the process. Wal-Mart lied and got caught!

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bugmenot 7 years, 6 months ago

Just don't shop there. I know it seems like it won't work, but after Federated Department Stores changed the Marshall Field's name to Macy's in Chicago, Chicagoans won't be caught dead in Macy's stores. It's working; those stores' profits are off by a ridiculous amount. I guess that's what it comes down to. If enough people vote with their wallets, Wal-Mart at 6th&Wak will go. The sad thing is, people purposely turn a blind eye to all the bad things about Wal-Mart and how it does business in order to save a couple bucks on pickles. It makes those of us who hate what they do feel powerless. The sad thing is, we really are powerless. Yes, you should dislike Wal-Mart for how it does its business, but the can do it because people still shop there. It's a sad commentary on what people feel is right, and what folks are willing to overlook to save a couple of bucks on cheap crap.

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bugmenot 7 years, 6 months ago

"BTW, if something is abhorrent, it is "vile." "Vial," is a container, as in a "Vial of crack," which is what you must be smoking to think a new Wal Mart indicates "progress.""

This stuff is why I come to message boards. This is hilarious!

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

Boston Charlie --

Thanks for your "concern" about the lack of representation in the West Lawrence Neighborhood Association. I have decided to get involved and attempt to have a voice in what goes on in the area covered by the neighborhood association....I voted in the last city commission election.

Why do I need to belong to some organization which purports to speak for an entire section of the city??? I especially like one piece of language on their website stating who can become members of the association. "Membership is open to all who support the purposes of the Association." Lovely...Did Stalin found this association?

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GetItRight 7 years, 6 months ago

KLWN just reported the trial has been postponed until September.

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bugmenot 7 years, 6 months ago

Honestly, you're comparing a neighborhood association to Stalin? Even if you're being facetious, which I assume you are, that's quite a stretch. Not to mention incredibly disrespectful to the millions he killed and tortured, but if it makes you feel like a bigger person to bust out the tired "anyone liberal in Lawence is a communist" thing, go ahead.

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Confrontation 7 years, 6 months ago

"We have shown : that the traffic has nowhere to go to get off of Sixth Street except through our neighborhood. We're looking at some child or adult getting hurt by traffic."

Good Lord. What makes this person's neighborhood so special? There are other areas of town where children and adults are forced to use their intelligence to avoid getting hit by cars. Are there no brains in this neighborhood? Other neighborhoods have heavy traffic, so why should we baby this neighborhood?

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Boston_Charley 7 years, 6 months ago

"Thank you" for your "constructive" comments about my posting, "although" they bear little "relationship" to anything in it.

"Apparently" the West Lawrence "Neighborhood" Association does not operate like the one in my neighborhood. "Never" "mind".

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

Your welcome Boston Charley. Just a quick observation . . . If you are so happy with your neighborhood association, please feel free to participate in that area and stay out of the affairs of West Lawrence.

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Boston_Charley 7 years, 6 months ago

In what way was I getting into the affairs of west lawrence? Just said if a person doesn't like the way things are, that person can work to change them. Had the impression this was a public forum, but having not applied for admission to the club, I'll take my font and go home. Have fun eating each other for lunch!

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altarego 7 years, 6 months ago

Too many comments, so little time.

Pre 6wak Walmart issues!

Question - What to do with the corner if Walmart/6wak lose

Answer - How bout a... CORN FIELD!!! No traffic! Or how bout a big ole apartment complex. Density mitigates sprawl, right? Or best yet, how bout the developturds just give it to some of the geniuses on these boards so they can do something with it that will "serve the whole community"!!!

Question - what about all the traffic

Answer - Good point! 6wak traffic will become almost half as bad as downtown traffic is now!

Post 6wak Walmart issues!

Question - what to do with 6wak Dillons when it goes out of business. (As of now the best and least crowded grocery in town - bar none).

Answer - this is actually a better site than the masonic temple for the new Hooters! (Hooters! Hooters! Hooters! Hooters!)

Question - where to put the new Olive Garden or Red Lobster

Answer - The Hereford House will make an excellent either!

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buffalo_star 7 years, 6 months ago

i have always been the wrong element and plan to stay that way, whatever the wrong element is??

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

Even though they were probably made in jest, I actually agree with your answers to the last two questions.

Dillons is an awful retail establishment that shouldn't survive in that location. It is incredibly overpriced and has very few of the amenities you can find at Hy-Vee just a half mile down 6th Street.

I'm sorry if Dillons goes out of business. Where will all those workers currently making high wages (sarcasm) find employment once the grocery store closes due to the influx of Wal-Mart shoppers???

I would actually love to have an Olive Garden and Red Lobster as well. Very great idea. Lets please put those on the corner of 6th and Wakarusa too.

Was there supposed to be something in your comment that conveyed a point???

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altarego 7 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, hiker, my point was so sharp you didn't even feel it!

Point #1 - overpriced junk stores like Pier 1 DESERVE to go out of business!

Point #2 - Give the people what they want!

Point #3 - Sex sells! (gratuitous, but true)

Point #4 - Fighting progress inevitably ends up with weeds growing through asphalt! (Explore Tangier mall v sign ordinances)!

Point #5 - Hint for developturds: forget walmart. Build a redlobster, olivegarden, AND a Hooters, and everyone is happy!

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prioress 7 years, 6 months ago

EXks: "Isn't there a petition recall process?? Form a coalition, start a petition recall process and get rid of these commissioners!!!"

Settle down, E. Recall is complex and is rarely accomplish. Being angry is not grounds for getting one started. 25-4302 Chapter 25.--ELECTIONS Article 43.--RECALL OF ELECTED OFFICIALS 25-4302. Grounds for recall. (a) Grounds for recall are conviction of a felony, misconduct in office or failure to perform duties prescribed by law. No recall submitted to the voters shall be held void because of the insufficiency of the grounds, application, or petition by which the submission was procured.

  (b)   As used in this section, the term "misconduct in office" means a violation of law by the officer that impacts the officer's ability to perform the official duties of the office.

  History:   L. 1976, ch. 178, § 16; L. 1987, ch. 130, § 1; L. 1999, ch. 105, § 8; L. 2003, ch. 127, § 1; July 1.
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Harry_Manback 7 years, 6 months ago

Build the Wal-Mart. Those who want to shop there will go, those who don't will not. End of story.

Only in Lawrence would something like this happen. I can't wait till they build it and all those self-righteous Wal-Mart haters have to drive by it everyday and realize they live in a modern global free market society and not on some commune in the woods where everyone can afford to shop at overpriced mom and pop stores for their daily needs. It's okay for you to drive your mass produced car, wear your mass produced clothing, go through McDonald's drive-thru, rent your movies at Blockbuster, shop at Target, Hy-Vee, Dillon's, etc., but God forbid a Wal-Mart (which is no different from the above named chain stores) comes to town all hell breaks loose!

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bugmenot 7 years, 6 months ago

Another willfully ignorant Wal-Mart shopper. "I don't care who it harms, at home or abroad, my cheap crap is important and downright American, damn it." It isn't that Wal-Mart is mainstream that's the problem. I love the market economy. That's not why I hate them. I hate them because they make their prices low by outsourcing the true cost of what they sell and thrusting the cost on the poor in this country and abroad. It's not about being self-righteous. You're being selfish and willfully ignorant by shopping there, and by doing so, you're hurting people here and (more frequently) in poor countries abroad. Either you're too stupid to realize that or you don't care. My guess is a combination of both. I'm glad you're proud of it.

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

"Dillons is more expensive."

Not if you know how to shop!!!

Stock up when items are on sale. The buy 1, get 1 free sales in the health & beauty dept are great.

You see, other stores have "loss leaders" to attract you into their store, knowing you'll buy more than the sale item.

You can shop smart without causing the exploitation and suffering of others.

Wal-Mart shoppers for the most part just don't want to know.

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

"Only in Lawrence would something like this happen. "

More ignorance revealed. Many communities have fought Wal-Mart, and successfully. Entire countries (Germany) and parts of the U.S. (northeast) have fought Wal-Mart and won.

If Wal-Mart would do business fairly they would not be fought - anywhere.

And again, the issue is not just a WM at Waka/6th - it is any similar big box store that is opposed. WM just makes it a double ugly.

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Wellington 7 years, 6 months ago

re: MJFarmermac

"Wellington (as in Beef?)..."

No, not as in beef, but as in a handle (fictitious name) to publicly hurl insults at people in our community. This is my god given cyber rite to be cloaked in a shroud of anonymity and say things about and to people that I personally would never say in public or to their face. I use this name because I know if my wife, children, parents, co-workers and friends would be embarrassed by my words.

It would be difficult for me to teach my children the importance of civility, charity, manners, and respect for others if they had any idea how hurtful I could be as my fingers danced across my keyboard. I hope this answers your question and sorry about the grammatical error (vial vs. vile).

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blackwalnut 7 years, 6 months ago

"Dillons is more expensive."

Another "quantity over quality" shopper?

Look in your Wal-Mart cart. Tell me there isn't an item in there that is just plain crap, that will break sooner, that will not support you nutritionally, or that you don't even need at all but, geez, it is so cheeeeeeeep!!!!!

You could put that thing back, and shop elsewhere, and not hurt people with your purchase - and not spend a penny more.

This sort of greed is what is wrong with America.

It's always an interesting experiment to pledge not to buy anything on a certain day. Makes you think about what you need. A learning experience even if you still buy it tomorrow.

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Eileen Emmi Jones 7 years, 6 months ago

If you shop at Wal-Mart, you have no right to complain about jobs or the economy, because you are causing more jobs to be sent right to China.

WM is the biggest outsourcer of labor in the U.S. Huge outsourcing. Google it up.

WM shoppers must hate America.

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Eileen Emmi Jones 7 years, 6 months ago

I want an Albertson's somewhere in Lawrence.

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kshiker 7 years, 6 months ago

I'm ok with the outsourcing of labor. Why would a corporation in its right mind pay an employee $15 an hour (plus subject itself to numerous workforce-related complaints) to manufacture a consumer item when the same item can be manufactured for half the cost somewhere else?

That is why we have job training programs and college education subsidies in the United States. Manufacturing jobs are a thing of the past in our country. Get over it and look for a career in services. Do you think Albertson's pays higher wages than Wal-Mart? Now that's funny!

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 6 months ago

South store = 207,000 square feet according to store management.

This is nothing but a facade what has been done in stopping the lawsuit. What difference does it make that we have new commissioners as the case was already in court? It is all a game of pretend. They are going to pull the lawsuit. The big concern is making it appear as if the new commissioners did not walk in ready to pull it.

Are there not enough issues on the table to keep them busy without interfering with a lawsuit before sitting in on one complete meeting without political hoopla?

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Eileen Emmi Jones 7 years, 6 months ago

Pilgrim: Can't hold 2 thoughts in your head at the same time?

The CC and zoning and all is the main topic. But it spurs side discussion about WM.

Who made you the topic police?

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Michael Capra 7 years, 6 months ago

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH YOU WALMART HATERS ARE MERC LOVERS THAT WORK THERE FILTHY STORE ,DREAD LOCKS HIPPIES THAT DONT BATH AND DIRTY BATHROOMS MILDEW BASEMENT AND PAY LESS THAN WALLY SO WHICH IS WORSE MERC OR THE BIG W AND WE SHOULD CHANGE THE BUS T TO THE BIG W

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 6 months ago

Not shopping Wal-Mart works for this household!

Why Wal-Mart when we have Cottins,Ernst,The Merc, Browns Shoe Store,Hy-Vee,Dillons,Sunflower Bikes,Weavers,M&M office Supplies,Lasting Impressions and other 2nd hand clothing stores last but not least Kiefs. KCMO/JOCO metro when all else fails which usually turns out to be fun cuz we visit our daughter/son in law.

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George_Braziller 7 years, 6 months ago

And your point is what?


"Posted by coneflower (anonymous) on April 12, 2007 at 11:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The west side voted in Dever & Chestnut.

Look it up in the ljworld.com,"


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budwhysir 7 years, 6 months ago

Keep that big name out there in front of people. Thats the whole idea behind the fight. We have a Walmart that people already are going to. The longer they make the papers, the longer we remember who they are. Everyone one wins

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budwhysir 7 years, 6 months ago

So if there is a building for sale, and I rent it, I might not be able to start a business there??

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

"Another "quantity over quality" shopper?

Look in your Wal-Mart cart. Tell me there isn't an item in there that is just plain crap, that will break sooner, that will not support you nutritionally, or that you don't even need at all but, geez, it is so cheeeeeeeep!!!!!"

Shop at WalMart the way you should shop anywhere: shoot the square; dive into the aisles only if you must (like for the gallon jar of dill pickles for $2.98). The stuff that is good for you is on the perimeter. The processed stuff is in the aisles.

If you do this, I guarantee you, you will spend much less than you will at any other grocery store in Lawrence, with the exception of Aldi.

Accept it, we are becoming a one-world economy. Compete, or lose.

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Harry_Manback 7 years, 6 months ago

Jeez, who cares if they build it? I don't shop at Wal-Mart (although I don't have a problem with the store itself), I just prefer other stores. Let's not make a federal case out of it.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

The street Klingenberg lives on would never be an "alternate route" for traffic - the street, in fact, the neighborhood, goes nowhere. If you do not live there, you will not go there.

She must have "alternate" agenda for her opposition to Walmart.

Could she be another Sorosite?

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coneflower 7 years, 6 months ago

"Accept it, we are becoming a one-world economy. Compete, or lose."

You are pleased then, about the loss of American jobs, and the lousy jobs Wal-Mart offers when it puts other businesses with better jobs out of business, and the human rights abuses Wal-Mart commits in other countries?

Some of us are not so quick to throw in the towel - and throw out our values and our sense of right and wrong.

It isn't a free market when some companies cheat. It isn't a free market when some companies feed off the government and force the government to subsidize their employees. It isn't a free market when companies buy politicians.

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KsTwister 7 years, 6 months ago

Show me the money!!!! Please hurry, the Tax deadline is Monday.

I do wish we could have a discussion without the WM bashing but more of why it has come to this legal situation to begin with. Errors were made, but when, why and to what extent? Or maybe we are destined to repeat this with another business?

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Eileen Emmi Jones 7 years, 6 months ago

You can guess which posters are part of the group who will make money personally off the WM deal: the same ones who are fond of name-calling and slurs, and who have no new arguments but post hour after hour anyway.

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Godot 7 years, 6 months ago

"You can guess which posters are part of the group who will make money personally off the WM deal: the same ones who are fond of name-calling and slurs, and who have no new arguments but post hour after hour anyway."

But I thought Merrill and Bozo and Coneflower and Logrithmic were against Walmart.

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