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Archive for Monday, October 23, 2006

Wal-Mart question up for city approval

October 23, 2006

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Always low prices.

Always high drama.

Yes, Wal-Mart is back at City Hall. The giant retailer's request to build a new store at the northwest corner of Sixth Street and Wakarusa Drive is up for approval at Tuesday night's City Commission meeting.

It arrives with quite a history. First, there were months of litigation; Wal-Mart and developers contended that the city illegally denied the project a building permit. The two sides eventually agreed to put those two lawsuits on hold while the city considered a new Wal-Mart request, which was significantly smaller than its original plans.

Then there was a marathon Planning Commission meeting in August where planning commissioners debated the project for more than five hours and ended in a 5-5 deadlock on whether to recommend the project.

Now it is the City Commission's turn, and Mayor Mike Amyx said he hopes to have a discussion that keeps politics out of the equation and doesn't focus on the good or ill of the Wal-Mart chain.

"This is a planning issue, and that is what it needs to remain," Amyx said of the proposal that would allow a 99,985-square-foot store. "This is about the arrangement of buildings and those sort of items."

But even that likely will spark disagreement. Some city commissioners said they have concerns about whether Wal-Mart is following through on promises made in the legal agreement that stated Wal-Mart would use the city's design guidelines to shape the project, and that the store would be built to the highest aesthetics and quality standards of any Wal-Mart store in the country.

"I'm trying to keep an open mind about this, but it is difficult," said City Commissioner Boog Highberger.

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Angie Stoner, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman, said the retailer has complied with the requirements.

"We have worked very closely with city staff on this," Stoner said. "We have done traffic studies, we have very different elevations for the outside appearance of this building, and we have worked hard to preserve the land and provide additional landscaping to truly make this as nice as it can be."

Here's a quick look at several of the major issues surrounding the project that likely will be discussed at Tuesday's meeting:

l Design and aesthetics. The city's new commercial design guidelines generally encourage major retail developments to place their parking lots behind their buildings so they are not such a prominent feature of the site. They also encourage the placement of buildings closer to the streets to give developments more of a pedestrian-oriented feel. There are concerns that the Wal-Mart project doesn't do enough of either.

But the city's planning staff is recommending approval of the project's design. Wal-Mart also is agreeing that at least 30 percent of the exterior of the store will be made of natural materials such as stone, brick or wood. It also is agreeing to plant more trees and provide more landscaped areas than the city code requires.

l Traffic. Members of the West Lawrence Neighborhood Assn. have long voiced concerns that the number of vehicles traveling to the store will overwhelm the Sixth Street and Wakarusa Drive intersection. They have said they fear vehicles will begin cutting through their neighborhood to avoid the congestion on Sixth Street.

Wal-Mart leaders counter that they conducted extensive traffic studies of the area that show the intersection will handle the expected traffic. But neighborhood members have taken exception to how those studies were conducted.

l Litigation. Hanging over the entire process will be the fact that an agreement reached between the city and Wal-Mart to put a series of lawsuits on hold while the retailer's new plans are considered is about to expire. The six-month time period on the agreement expires Tuesday. The agreement allows for an extension, if all parties agree to it. But neither side would comment on whether they would seek an extension if the plan is not approved Tuesday.

Without an extension, Douglas County District Court Judge Michael Malone could restart the cases, two of which were just days away from going to trial before the agreement was reached in April. In the lawsuit, Wal-Mart is seeking permission to build a much bigger store than what it currently has proposed. The store proposed in the lawsuit would be 132,000 square feet.

The 5-5 vote by the Lawrence-Douglas County Planning Commission means four of the five city commissioners must vote for the plan to give it final approval on Tuesday. If the project receives only three votes, then it must be sent back to the Planning Commission to be debated again. Following that debate, regardless of the Planning Commission action, the City Commission can approve the development with three votes.

Commissioners will meet at 6:35 p.m. Tuesday at City Hall, Sixth and Massachusetts streets.

Comments

Pilgrim 7 years, 5 months ago

Posted by scenebooster (anonymous) on October 24, 2006 at 7:48 a.m.

If you don't like Lawrence the way it is (and has historically been), why do you live here? You say you don't want a Lenexa clone, but that's what you've been advocating for in this thread!

Um, no. I said YOU don't want to live in a Lenexa clone. I want Lawrence to continue to thrive and grow and evolve. Much as you would like, you can't stick it in a glass bottle and seal it up for posterity and your own little vision of how things used to be. There is no such thing as the status quo. You're either moving forward or you're moving backward.


And BTW, what makes your vision of Lawrence more valid than mine? At least my vision has some history on its side...

History belongs in books. Cities have to grow and keep pace with the world around them or they wither and die. Take some video of the places you're so fond of and haul them out whenever you want to see Lawrence as it was. The rest of us will be living in the Lawrence that is and will be.

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

"logicsound04 - so if Target is out of something or doesn't have your size, you don't go across the street to Wal-Mart? Sure, I believe that rolls eyes"


Good grief blue73harley, get over yourself. I don't shop at Wal-Mart. Is it really that hard to believe that someone has convictions by which they live their life. Just because YOU are willing to walk all over the impoverished in the name of "Always Low Prices" doesn't mean everyone is that callous.

========================================

"Those are very smart business people you're talking about. If a Wal-Mart (or anything else) would flourish in North Lawrence, they would be there. They're not. You've just answered your own question."


That's a circular argument if I've ever heard one. They aren't in North Lawrence because they wouldn't be successful which is why they aren't in North Lawrence.

No, the reason they aren't in North Lawrence is because there is no competition with which to go directly head-to-head.

You are correct that Wal-Mart is run by intelligent businesspeople, however, there is more to business logic than simple P&L.

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

whatintheworld..........was the point of your comment?

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Katara 7 years, 5 months ago

conservative said: It was even answered in the chat the other day that they weren't showing projected growth to the North because of the high cost of putting in sewage and other infrastructure. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The west/northwest side of Lawrence are experiencing sewer & infrastructure problems now. Putting in a new walmart is only going to increase those problems there too.

Perhaps the reason why there is no expected growth in N. Lawrence is because they lack things such as a grocery store. Perhaps walmart building there would foster growth in N. Lawrence.

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whatintheworld 7 years, 5 months ago

Walmart is coming to the west side. Get over it. Grouching about it doesn't change it.

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conservative 7 years, 5 months ago

Wal-mart won't build in North Lawrence because that isn't where the growth will be. Look at the maps for expected growth in Lawrence, the growth is to the West and the South. It was even answered in the chat the other day that they weren't showing projected growth to the North because of the high cost of putting in sewage and other infrastructure.

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blue73harley 7 years, 5 months ago

logicsound04 - so if Target is out of something or doesn't have your size, you don't go across the street to Wal-Mart? Sure, I believe that rolls eyes

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"No. Not different at all. I like the idea of a second Wal-Mart store in Lawrence. I like having Starbuck's and American Eagle and Gap and Borders and Home Depot and Best Buy and all those other "chains" in town. What makes your vision of Lawrence more valid than mine? If I don't want to move to Lenexa and you don't want to live in a Lenexa clone, why don't you move to Oskaloosa? There's certainly no danger of even one Wal-Mart being built there, let alone two.

Why not?"

Because neither Oskaloosa nor Lenexa can claim the unique status that Lawrence enjoys. And what is it that makes Lawrence unique, and what is it that gets recognized by people from all over the country? Is it the neighborhoods and downtown, or your vision of American Eagle, Starbucks, the Gap, Home Depot, etc? There are very few places like Lawrence left (look at aggieville), and people like you, who are too lazy to drive to the existing walmart, would like to make it like the majority of American cities. So, actually, there is a distinction, but not one you'll be able to see.

If you don't like Lawrence the way it is (and has historically been), why do you live here? You say you don't want a Lenexa clone, but that's what you've been advocating for in this thread!

And BTW, what makes your vision of Lawrence more valid than mine? At least my vision has some history on its side...

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Pilgrim 7 years, 5 months ago

Posted by letsgetwise (anonymous) on October 23, 2006 at 9:59 p.m.

I was wondering...did anyone ever consider building this other Wal-Mart out where the "Mall" went in at I-70? You know, the one that just about everything has closed at, where the DMV is located? I actually thought that would have been a great location for a Super Walmart to go, North Lawrence could use a grocery store and with the highway right there I think other traffic would have stopped as well. Just wondering...


There's nothing like that in North Lawrence for a reason. Those are very smart business people you're talking about. If a Wal-Mart (or anything else) would flourish in North Lawrence, they would be there. They're not. You've just answered your own question.

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

But then again, that would make it harder for them to drive out local competition, which is what they want ultimately.

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

letsgetwise,

While I still feel that the consumers of Lawrence could do without ANOTHER Wal-Mart, I agree that the old Tanger Mall would be an ideal place.

Might as well put in the area of town that actually needs it.

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white_mountain 7 years, 5 months ago

I have a friend in Tonganoxie who works in Lawrence and would just love to have a Wal-Mart there in north lawrence.

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Katara 7 years, 5 months ago

letsgetwise,

I posted this earlier...

"I still think that North Lawrence would benefit most from having a wal-mart. They don't have a grocery store or any other type of store that is close by to get necessities. If it was right by the interstate then there would be lots of traffic from there for people stopping during their travels for snacks & items they forgot from home." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Mall makes sense to me. Surely it is big enough for Walmart to build a Superwalmart there. Plenty of parking and easy access to the interstate so other small towns can get to it easily for their needs too.

I have a relative that worked at Walmart at least 7 years ago & was earning $6.00/hr as a stocker. She also had a 10% discount card (so you would spend some of your paycheck back to the store). Both of her kids were on Healthwave so she didn't have to worry about insurance. I have no idea what the wages are now.

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letsgetwise 7 years, 5 months ago

When Target came to town, I was working at HyVee as a cashier. Wages at the grocery stores went up as well as at Wal-Mart. I quit my job at HyVee to work at Wal-Mart because they were paying .50 more an hour than HyVee OR Target. Now, that was how ever many years ago Target came to town. I do not know what wages are like at these places today. I was wondering...did anyone ever consider building this other Wal-Mart out where the "Mall" went in at I-70? You know, the one that just about everything has closed at, where the DMV is located? I actually thought that would have been a great location for a Super Walmart to go, North Lawrence could use a grocery store and with the highway right there I think other traffic would have stopped as well. Just wondering...

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Pilgrim 7 years, 5 months ago

Posted by scenebooster (anonymous) on October 23, 2006 at 6:17 p.m.

Conservatives usually use that line in regard to America in total. Here, I'm using it in defense of a unique city, which the walmart folks seem to want to make like every other city in which they've had their way. A little different, no?


No. Not different at all. I like the idea of a second Wal-Mart store in Lawrence. I like having Starbuck's and American Eagle and Gap and Borders and Home Depot and Best Buy and all those other "chains" in town. What makes your vision of Lawrence more valid than mine? If I don't want to move to Lenexa and you don't want to live in a Lenexa clone, why don't you move to Oskaloosa? There's certainly no danger of even one Wal-Mart being built there, let alone two.

Why not?

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

"Posted by blue73harley (anonymous) on October 23, 2006 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

logicsound4 - you aren't debating. You are name-calling. The reason I don't believe that most of you have never set foot in a Wal-Mart is simply because of the lack of affordable retail stores in Lawrence. If you shop in Lawrence, at some time or another you go to Wal-Mart. Heck, Wal-Mart even runs out of seasonal stuff constantly. Ever try to buy BBQ briquets or weed wacker string in the off season?

========================================

If you'll re-read my post, I called you an ignoramus, as in: one who is uninformed. I was not making any judgement about you as a person, but you are making claims about which you are uninformed, making wild generalizations for the purpose of furthering your agenda.

And for the record, I NEVER shop at Wal-Mart because the marginal price increase to shop at Target is well worth the fact that Target employees are paid fair wages and benefits.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Oh, gee. And here we've been told for years and years and years that "Love It or Leave It" was a retort restricted to overmatched conservatives."

Yeah, it's OK when you use that argument, but not for anybody else, huh?

Conservatives usually use that line in regard to America in total. Here, I'm using it in defense of a unique city, which the walmart folks seem to want to make like every other city in which they've had their way. A little different, no?

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Pilgrim 7 years, 5 months ago

Posted by scenebooster (anonymous) on October 23, 2006 at 8:39 a.m.

...if we allow a second walmart, more and more of Lawrence will start to look like Lenexa. If that's what you want (endless strip malls, no where to walk, no where to mingle with neighbors, gotta drive to get anywhere), then move to Lenexa!


Oh, gee. And here we've been told for years and years and years that "Love It or Leave It" was a retort restricted to overmatched conservatives.

Guess not, huh?

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Dixie Jones 7 years, 5 months ago

soloman put that #$%^ cat down! lol personally i would like to see more built in north lawrence... or put something in the huge mall that sits idle by the pike...sad....

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Pilgrim 7 years, 5 months ago

Posted by just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) on October 23, 2006 at 8:30 a.m.

If this is approved it will only be to avoid litigation in which Wal-Mart has been given an upper hand by corrupt actions of previous planning and city commissions.


And once again, bozo is called upon to put up or shut up. Name the specific acts of corruption you allege and name the names of those who commited those acts.

"Everybody knows who they are and what they are," is totally unresponsive.

Put up or shut up.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Uh, yeah. It is. That certainly is damning. I can't believe I said that, and only two months ago! Yeah, that's not funny."

So, basically, all of your outrage was manufactured.

Lotsa credibility you got there slick.

You might not like my views, but at least I'm not a hypocrite.

Have a great day!

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 5 months ago

Attention WalMart haters:

If you can't get help at WalMart Haters Anonymous........

....get help somplace.

Thanks.

Marion.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

Uh, yeah. It is. That certainly is damning. I can't believe I said that, and only two months ago! Yeah, that's not funny.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

Actually, no. But it seems you have a little problem with the mobile home "dwellers" as you put it:

Posted by Shelby on Wednesday, August 2nd, in response to the LJW story "Battered Woman Dies from Injuries":

"This happened_in a trailer park_?"

Gee, defender of the feelings of all walmart fans, what did you mean by that? Do you hate certain groups of people?

Sure sounds condescending to me...

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

listen sceney, I take back that whole post about you hating mobile-home dwellers and the like. That was conjecture.

The rest I'll remain on board with. I also know you have an affinity for raspberry Tootsie Pops(tm).

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

good idea, scenebooster. if you do, you might receive more parenting advice on this forum... j/k

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

I don't think I'll attempt to exercise my first amendment rights if it does....

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Andini 7 years, 5 months ago

I can't wait to read the comments if Wal-Mart gets approved tomorrow night. :-)

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

okay, so we know your position on exploiting "third-world countries" and the unemployed. that's settled.

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ibroke 7 years, 5 months ago

well thank you,,if you were to open a sweat shop in honduras you would hire lots of previously unemployed people who need a job unless they dont need a job ,then they wouldnt apply for that job

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ibroke 7 years, 5 months ago

well thank you,,if you were to open a sweat shop in honduras you would hire lots of previously unemployed people who need a job unless they need a job ,then they wouldnt apply for that job

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

" I've met you before. I never identified anybody, other than that someone named "Josh" may or may not be a name associated with the local r&b artist Scenebooster Soundsystem LCD. "Josh" also happens to be associated with a famous black baseball player, for instance. I shall withhold his last name, just as I am yours."

Um, let's recap.

You've met me.

You "implied" that I have a daughter.

You've inferred that someone named "Josh" may or may not be a name associated with the local r&b artist Scenebooster Soundsystem (no LCD involved).

Gee, have you identlfied me? I wonder. E-mail me. Call me up. I'd love to get some further insight as to why you think you've got me "pegged".

As for "R&B", I'm the arbiter of nothing, but the "R" is for rhythm, and the "B" is for blues...does my little album sound like either of those?

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

i can use that same logic to justify opening a sweat shop with incredibly low wages in honduras

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

oh that's so deep, ibroke. you've got it all figured out it seems

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ibroke 7 years, 5 months ago

1) i have walked through walmart and i saw NO employees that were chained to their job,it appeared as they could leave anytime they wanted to another job. 2)how many employees are hired at the new 6th and wakarusa store right now?------ thats right! ZERO,,,ok stay with me ,,lets say they build it then how many workers (who were without a job before) would work there then??

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

and what do YOU call it, oh great arbiter of genre?

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

How so, because I implied that you have a daughter?

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

That's your explanation for the things you've posted today?

As I've said, I would very much like to know just who you are. Your posts today have been WAY beyond the limits of acceptibility.

R&B?

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

I have nothing against you, just the statements and opinions I've been exposed to on ljworld.com, and I was hoping that the crux of these wouldn't get passed down to your offspring. I still hope this is the case. I'm not attacking anybody directly. I don't know you just like I don't know George W. Bush, but I still have feelings about what he says/does. I hope certain things about him are not recreated by HIS daughters, for instance. I've met you before. I never identified anybody, other than that someone named "Josh" may or may not be a name associated with the local r&b artist Scenebooster Soundsystem LCD. "Josh" also happens to be associated with a famous black baseball player, for instance. I shall withhold his last name, just as I am yours.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

""Wow! You're too dense to get the point...no wonder you shop at walmart!"

It was just your vehemence, and your inability to see that this statement is a derogatory one, meant to belittle, that really got me interested in this discussion--perhaps it's either conscious, subconscious, or a typo.

I have no problem with any of this. I'm just having fun pointing out the hypocrisy and pseudo-intellect! YIPEEEE!!"

That statement was directed to sigmund, who had just called me an "idiot" while at the same time ignoring the point I had just made to him. It didn't apply to anyone else.

So you think that gives you the right to identify, and then attack, my family and I?

I've asked you already: who are you? You can e-mail and let me know, and explain your beef with me...so far you're just acting cowardly.

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from_beautiful_downtown_topeka 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey! Hey! Hey!

Now just hold on a minute, folks!

Like a well-known young man once said many years back (and a real "pillar of his community", let me tell ya).....

"Cccccccan't we all just get along?"

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Andini 7 years, 5 months ago

They probably wouldn't sell it anyway because it would have the Parental Advisory label.

I'll keep supporting Kief's....or Lovegarden

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

:

"Wow! You're too dense to get the point...no wonder you shop at walmart!"

It was just your vehemence, and your inability to see that this statement is a derogatory one, meant to belittle, that really got me interested in this discussion--perhaps it's either conscious, subconscious, or a typo.

I have no problem with any of this. I'm just having fun pointing out the hypocrisy and pseudo-intellect! YIPEEEE!!

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"I'll keep listening to your cd too and will buy any others that you release. I'm probably your only 42 year old fan."

But would you buy it if it was sold at Walmart? My apologies, I got a little worked up there...sorry for the drama.

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

BTW, the article was right.

"Always high drama."

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Andini 7 years, 5 months ago

My disgruntled comment was meant as a joke Mr. Scenebooster.

I'll keep listening to your cd too and will buy any others that you release. I'm probably your only 42 year old fan.

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

No one should be identifying anyone on these posts who do not want to be identified.

Shelby you could get in a lot of trouble if Scenebooster decides to report you.

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

please, shelby, you are getting out of line here. it seems frightening. i don't know what your beef is, but chill out. i don't see why you are making these outlandish assumptions about what scenebooster is posting. and the personal comments are not helping your case at all.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"what anger, josh? I'm just surprised at YOUR anger!"

Who in the hell are you? Feel free to e-mail me if you have a problem with me, or my views on WALMART, but I didn't degrade or humiliate, and if YOU took it that way, than my apologies.

Do own stock in walmart? Did your folks work there? WTF???

I have no problem with the people who work at, shop at, or like walmart. My problem is with their corporate structure and the effects their stores have on communities and small business. You want to talk about that, great, I'm glad to go back and forth with you.

You want to have this weird, personal class war discussion, I'm not interested.

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

Not wanting to get involved in that...

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Not that I want to get in an argument with you now that Shelby back off, but...

I was telling Shelby that you might interpret Shelby's comments as personal attacks no matter what Shelby's intentions happened to be.

I was NOT saying that Scenebooster (meaning you) was making personal attacks.

Just don't like to be misquoted."

Thanks for the clarification. You must recognize, however, that shelby got pretty far out in that last little discourse.

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

Gee Logic-

I must are and ig-no-ra-mus ifn I dun did that?

I don't recall saying anything about what either side thinks or doesn't think, except for something about equating going to Wal-Mart a sin. All I said is that it seems that a lot of people are saying don't support Wal-Mart and don't like them but they still spend their money there instead of supporting the local businesses they are supposed proponents of. (excuse the preposition)

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

Isn't Costco like Sam's Club?

Wouldn't that mean Costco was a discount sto...never mind.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

what anger, josh? I'm just surprised at YOUR anger!

again, "Wow! You're too dense to get the point...no wonder you shop at walmart!"

Are you going to assert that this statement wasn't anger/hate-fueled with the intention of degrading someone?

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

Scenebooster,

Not that I want to get in an argument with you now that Shelby back off, but...

I was telling Shelby that you might interpret Shelby's comments as personal attacks no matter what Shelby's intentions happened to be.

I was NOT saying that Scenebooster (meaning you) was making personal attacks.

Just don't like to be misquoted.

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blue73harley 7 years, 5 months ago

logicsound4 - you aren't debating. You are name-calling. The reason I don't believe that most of you have never set foot in a Wal-Mart is simply because of the lack of affordable retail stores in Lawrence. If you shop in Lawrence, at some time or another you go to Wal-Mart. Heck, Wal-Mart even runs out of seasonal stuff constantly. Ever try to buy BBQ briquets or weed wacker string in the off season?

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"You sound like a disgruntled ex Wal-Mart employee Mr. Scenebooster.

I'll never listen to your cd again in the same state of mind now that I know how you really feel."

Can I ask why you feel so angered by what I said? I never advocated for banishing walmart, only that I don't want two in town. Yet somehow I'm a disgruntled walmart employee?

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"er, sorry for reading into your posts. probably went a bit too far and i apologize."

No problem (but watch the personal stuff, please).

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"I'll never listen to your cd again in the same state of mind now that I know how you really feel."

Please don't.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

er, sorry for reading into your posts. probably went a bit too far and i apologize.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Shelby your only making it worse for youself. Scenebooster won't get it, and will assume a personal attack regardless of you intentions."

Haven't offered any personal attacks, in spite of the attacks from shelby.

"You could care less what happens to your community insofaras "community" relates to what you (would probably) call 'white trash'. "

How is it that you think you know so much about me? I have never used the words "white trash", so why the obsession?

"You would like to exclude them from YOUR community if you could legally, and this is the closest you can come to that."

Why all the anger, Shelby? Do you have issues with how others view you?

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Andini 7 years, 5 months ago

You sound like a disgruntled ex Wal-Mart employee Mr. Scenebooster.

I'll never listen to your cd again in the same state of mind now that I know how you really feel.

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 5 months ago

Actually it is very easy to not shop Wal-Mart. On electronic devices Kiefs may be willing to offer a low priced product. Don't assume they won't. Cottins is quite good on price and service.

The more Wal-Mart stores the more Wal-Mart choices have been made for you. All of this talk of more choices is not what more Wal-Mart stores bring. It's about what Wal-Mart has determined is best for the consumer which has pushed many jobs abroad and many americans out of work.

Why focus only on Wal-Mart? COSTCO is a better store for communities because of their wages and benefits.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

And as to your "what exactly is more important than caring about what happens to your community?" rhetorical question, let me clarify what your actual feelings are.

You could care less what happens to your community insofaras "community" relates to what you (would probably) call 'white trash'. They don't have the same value system as you, and you could care less about them. You would like to exclude them from YOUR community if you could legally, and this is the closest you can come to that.

You care about the LOOK and FEEL of YOUR community. You want less Arbys, more Tellers, less Dollar Generals, more Pier 1, and at the expense of anyone but yourself.

What you want, incidently, is to live on one of the coasts.

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

Shelby your only making it worse for youself. Scenebooster won't get it, and will assume a personal attack regardless of you intentions.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

Wow! You're tough! Firstly, no tape decks involved. Vinyl only. Secondly, I don't hate anyone, not even George W. Bush. Thirdly, my you don't know me slick, so get over it.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

"Wow! You're too dense to get the point...no wonder you shop at walmart!" -- Scenebooster Soundsystem Hi-Fi DJ with Dual Tape Deck

Hmm:Mr. Soundsystem, if you don't think that's an instance of generalizing and that it's not meant to be insulting and degrading, then who are you to call anyone "dense", since you don't even understand the intent of your own statements? Your true colors show, and are BLACK and WHITE. You hate certain groups of people. Furthermore, your unwavering allegiance to Everything Left is borderline comical, not to mention a clear sign of a self-assumed inadequate intellect in disguise.

Pardon me for bringing your daughter into this. I had her best interests in mind, though. I was just making an honest, unveiled attempt to convince you to sober up and make the choice to not pass down to her the same woefully immature, holier-than-thou frame-of-mind -- it's clearly insecurity masquerading as 'thoughtful opinion', and is, frankly, pathetic.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Let the big business do their thing. You are powerless. There are more important battles to fight."

What exactly is more important than caring about what happens to your community?

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 5 months ago

Wal-Marts Empty Stores prevent competition and produces little revenue for the community. Not exactly why commercial zoned property is designated. Over 300 EMPTY stores.

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/21820/

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Sandra Willis 7 years, 5 months ago

Citizens, Why does the WALMART Corporation feel they need to add ANOTHER of their stores here? We have ONE already!

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Taxpayer 7 years, 5 months ago

bangaranggerg,

The West Lawrence Neighborhood Association is a group of SELF-APPOINTED (there was no election...) people in the neighborhood (anchored by George Williams and Wakarusa) that decided to get together and make decisions for the entire neighborhood. They have a web site (try googling WLNA) that explains their "plans."
Watch out, if you don't agree with them, then they are not very nice people.
I live in the neighborhood, and they do NOT represent my views....

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

BlueHarley: "ranger73 - nearly every Wally World basher posting here will proclaim they do not shop there. Do I believe it? Not a chance."

ranger73: "It must be a "do as I say, not as I do" type thing...kind of hypocritical for such a "progressive" community..."


Well, why even bother debating if you two ignoramuses are going to just decide what the other side thinks?

========================================

"Let the big business do their thing. You are powerless."


Doesn't it bother you at all, Shelby, that a faceless, unaccountable entity has the same rights as a person, and we are "powerless" to do anything about it?

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"That's right, Mr. DJ Scenebooster, those who shop at walmart are idiots/white trash, aren't they? Way to take the high road. Perhaps these are values you'll forget to impart whilst raising your daughter."

Never used those words, now did I? In fact, I made the point that the most common reason for shopping at walmart was economics. Mr. sigmund called me an idiot, while avoiding the points that I made.

So you know who I am, good for you. As for bringing my family into it, I'd watch your step there, friend.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

That's right, Mr. DJ Scenebooster, those who shop at walmart are idiots/white trash, aren't they? Way to take the high road. Perhaps these are values you'll forget to impart whilst raising your daughter.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"scenebuster, I didnt realize that WalMart built the Riverfront Mall! It is the only empty WalMart building I have ever seen. WalMart does not build a store without very strong evidence it will be profitable. "

Wow! You're too dense to get the point...no wonder you shop at walmart!

"You are still and idiot."

You can't even insult me correctly! Time to get out the safetly scissors...

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Andini 7 years, 5 months ago

On one hand I don't think another Wal-Mart will do well here because it's not next door to a trailer park.

On the other hand I think it will do well because it's close to all of the Topeka people that come here and commit crimes.

These are only jokes fellow posters and not meant to offend anyone. I'm from Topeka.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

HyVee has some of the most gut-wrenchingly annoying commercials though.

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Katara 7 years, 5 months ago

Too bad you don't have a Hy-Vee, crazyks. I love their stores!

They are always clean. The people are always friendly. Plus they treat their employees fairly well from what I hear, at least much better than Dillion's.

I only wish they did double coupons & then I could ditch Dillon's too.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

Casey's used to make THE BEST pizza, and by "the best", I mean "the greasiest", and awesome. Way awesome.

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Linda Endicott 7 years, 5 months ago

Actually, we've had three Wal-Mart locations here in Ottawa.

The first Wal-Mart moved into an already existing building. Wal-Mart then decided that one wasn't big enough, so they built a new one further south down 59.

That old Wal-Mart building is now an Orschelin's.

Then Wal-Mart decided again that the building they had wasn't big enough, and they built another new one, a super center, on the other side of 59, at 23rd St.

The second old Wal-Mart building is currently filled by three businesses, Goody's, Good Will, and Dollar General. But it took a long time to fill it. Businesses came and went for a long time, the only constant through the years has been Dollar General. We were supposed to get a Hobby Lobby in one of the empty slots, but that never happened. Damn shame.

I don't know how long the second old building will remain full of businesses. It hasn't remained that way for long in the past, but you never know.

And when will Wal-Mart decide to build yet another building here in Ottawa?

To be fair, however, KFC did the same thing here. They had one building at 9th and Main, and then later on they abandoned that one and built a new one right next door. (that was funny, actually...like you were going to get different customers building 50 feet away) Then they decided to build a third building at 21st and 59. The two old buildings are now where Subway and China Palace (restaurant) are located.

Pizza Hut had one building on 15th. Then they built a new one at 23rd and 59.

Is this a new business trend, or what? Seems kind of silly to me.

I do shop at Wal-Mart, but I wish I didn't have to. No, I don't like their business practices, and no, I can't afford the luxury of sticking to my convictions and not shopping there at all.

We have only two grocery stores here in Ottawa, and one of those is Wal-Mart. I would gladly shop at Dillons or HyVee if we had one, especially on the north side of town. There isn't a grocery there at all, and it's a loooong walk out south.

Dollar General and Dairy Queen did the sensible thing. Since this city is basically split between north and south areas, they have one store on each end of town. Both businesses, on both ends of town, moved into existing buildings.

And we have three Casey's. But only one McDonald's. (not that this is important, but it's interesting)

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MeeMa8 7 years, 5 months ago

Everyone keeps talking about how much this will impact the traffic in the area. Developers have submitted plans to completely fill the space between Wakarusa and Folks Rd. with houses, apartments, offices, retail and the community theatre. What do you think that is going to do to traffic along 6th Street? I didn't see anyone throwing a fit about that when the proposal for that was in the paper. Oh I forgot, that developer is part of the inner circle of the Lawrence elite.

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Katara 7 years, 5 months ago

I really don't see a need for another wal-mart in this town.

I'm curious as to what will happen if it doesn't do enough business and decides to close shop. Then we are stuck with an empty building that will probably be too much for anyone to lease since it is in West Lawrence.

I still think that North Lawrence would benefit most from having a wal-mart. They don't have a grocery store or any other type of store that is close by to get necessities. If it was right by the interstate then there would be lots of traffic from there for people stopping during their travels for snacks & items they forgot from home.

I shop at walmart although I'm not thrilled to be doing so. I'm not rich enough yet to have a lot of choices as to where I shop.

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

Wow-That's some happy thoughts.

Business is war, huh? "Go Rin No Sho..?"

Maybe so...

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Sigmund 7 years, 5 months ago

scenebuster, I didnt realize that WalMart built the Riverfront Mall! It is the only empty WalMart building I have ever seen. WalMart does not build a store without very strong evidence it will be profitable. Despite you're expert opinion, I trust their market research. You are still and idiot.

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Shelby 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm not sure Lawrence really NEEDS another walmart, but frankly, I don't care. It would employ many people that would otherwise be unemployed. That alone is enough for me; if walmart can support them more than being unemployed can support them, fantastic. Don't forget to punch-in.

If walmart puts other mom&pop stores out of business: fine. Mom and pop are unemployed while countless more people gain employment. If Baskin Robins puts Sylas & Maddie's out of business, it's Sylas & Maddie's fault. They didn't have Praline Surprise while Baskin Robbins had Praline Swirl, Crunch AND Surprise, and you get two scoops for the price of 1 S&M scoop. Sylas & Maddie's didn't have the money or the creativity to compete with Baskin Robbins? Then Sylas & Maddie should have stayed out of the frozen treats business. Maybe Sylas and Maddie aren't as cutthroat as Baskin Robbins.

This is economic "conquest", and, unless monopoly laws change, predictable. You don't have to like it. If you want to try to socially engineer your perfect little college town, go right ahead. You will fail. Maybe you want to whine about it and try to garner public support for your progressive (read: untried) cause. You will fail.

Let the big business do their thing. You are powerless. There are more important battles to fight.

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

lol

whatever happens, I hope the powers that be make sure some nice affordable buffet style restaurant goes in also...Eating out in this town just isn't the same since Furr's and Sirloin Stockade are gone. Who can forget the great kids eat free nights and free dessert if you're over 80 offers?

<>

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

Ranger73,

According to Marion they are "Deep Thraots [sic]" See the above posts.

I want to be a "Deep Thraot!"

I'm not sure what a "Deep Thraot" is, but it sounds fun. :p

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

Pure "strawman" and "argument by assertion," ranger73, and therefore, verrry weak.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

".what I am asking is if the general consensus of people is they are bad for the community, bad for the economy, then why are so many people still shopping there. "

I don't mean to be rude, but it's the low prices, silly!

The problem arises when you look at how those low prices are achieved, and what it means for local business, before, during, and after walmart.

Some people just don't make enough to shop anywhere else. Nobody is saying "tear down the walmart we have", but there isn't any need for a 2nd walmart in a city of not even 100,000.

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

It must be a "do as I say, not as I do" type thing...kind of hypocritical for such a "progressive" community...

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

So going to Wal-Mart is breaking a commandment or violating the Koran, or what ever (if you believe in that sort of thing...lest we get into a holy war over freeking Wal-Mart) and making money is bad also? Capitalism be dammed huh? It is wrong then to strive to become wealthy, or for a business to become successful.

I am not saying I agree with how Wal-Mart does things, or what their particular practices are, nor condoning them...what I am asking is if the general consensus of people is they are bad for the community, bad for the economy, then why are so many people still shopping there. There are plenty of alternatives and local shops that can supply the same things.

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blue73harley 7 years, 5 months ago

ranger73 - nearly every Wally World basher posting here will proclaim they do not shop there. Do I believe it? Not a chance.

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couranna1 7 years, 5 months ago

The point is or should be: Lawrence does not need two waallyworlds bring something cool in instead or improve downtown so it is not so trashy and dirty

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

I understand that...What I am asking is if so many people, especially that post here, don't like it or want them to change, then why still shop there? They surely don't have that strong a hold on people that would make them shop there even if they go against any moral, ethical, social etc. values that that person may have? Or what does that say about our convictions...

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

"If Wal-Mart is so bad and evil, why is the parking lot packed every weekend and evening?"

If gluttony is sinful, why is there an obesity epidemic? If greed and envy are sinful, why is the drive for wealth the primary motivator of contemporary business?

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

"If Wal-Mart is so bad and evil, why is the parking lot packed every weekend and evening?"


If you had read any of the previous post you might know, but here's a quick refresher:

-Wal-Mart's problem is how they treat their employees; no one is denying that people shop there. They also destroy local competition through "questionable" market penetration tactics.

As you can see, the source of Wal-Mart's evil is mutually exclusive from their ability to draw consumers.

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ranger73 7 years, 5 months ago

Quick question- If Wal-Mart is so bad and evil, why is the parking lot packed every weekend and evening? It can't be everyone from Baldwin every night, and Ottawa has a Wal-Mart all their own...

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"But of course you really believe that WalMart would build a store where there was no demand. You are an idiot."

Ah, but you are so wrong. There are myriad examples of walmart moving into locations where there was at best questionable support (http://www.nfib.com/object/IO_19010.html is one example). The reason? They can get in, stay a year or two at a profit, and then leave (some factors include low wages, a strangle hold on vendors, no heathcare, etc.). You are uninformed, pal. BTW, how much retail square footage does Lawrence have, and how much can it support? (Hint: How's the Riverfront mall doing?) You haven't a pot to p**s in as far as your argument goes.

"Scenebooster: If you can't make an argument with resorting to insults, perhaps you should take a break from these forums and go rethink your argument. "

Talk to sigmund.

"You asked the question "why do we need another wal-mart?" and it was answered: "Market and Convenience."

See above, and while your at it - just where is the "market" demand? Where? Lawrence has more square footage of retail than it can possibly support (again, just the tiniest amount of research shows this). And I'll ask again: Why would anyone just throw their hands up and say "leave it to the markets"? I personally care about what kind of city Lawrence becomes.

BTW - Lawrence has always been liberal, and anti big-box stores...i.e. we were here first.

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

"Same goes for Wallieworld, don't like it, don't shop there. If enough of you who dislike it can make your friends not go there, then perhaps it will fail. Market at work."


Wal-Mart operates outside of the local market because it has the resources to sustain losses at individual stores until local competition has all but disappeared, clearing up a fresh new community with no choice but to shop at facist, no health care Wal-Mart.

This is how it works: people go to get jobs at Wal-Mart because they are unemployed, its not like they can be picky and say "I'm not gonna work at Wal-Mart because they don't pay fair wages and benefits" because the other option is no job. After they are employed by Wal-Mart, they do not make enough money to shop anywhere BUT Wal-Mart, so even though Wal-Mart is not an ideal solution for worker or consumer, a vicious cycle ensues. Let's not mention that as that local competition goes out of business MORE people who have no choice but to work (and shop) at Wal-Mart arise.

If you're going to shout "FREE-MARKET CAPITALISM" from the rooftops, you might actually want to be acquainted with the theory of economics. While economics is as simple as supply and demand in a classroom, it becomes much more complex with all the various factors that occur in the real world.

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

Actually, isn't within all cities' powers to "dissolve"(disallow the expansion of) any specific corporation within the city limits?

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Same goes for Wallieworld, don't like it, don't shop there"

That's not the issue. The issue is that that intersection already has enough going on without clogging it up further with a Wal-Mart (an unnecessary one, at that, although that is redundant.) That's why there are zoning laws, which in this case have been totally ignored, thanks in large part to Wal-Mart's deep pockets and willingness to litigate to get whatever it wants.

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BabyJay13 7 years, 5 months ago

What I don't get it why you people can't post your thought and opinions out here without cussing at each other. You think you have an intelligent arguement and then you go and start calling people idiots and cussing at them, that makes you sound childish. I agree with chzypoof's statements, they have the right to build there just as much as any other business. There is always going to be arguements about whether or not someone should be allowed to build a building/business somewhere, especially if it is a bigger corporation. If you don't like it, then it is your choice not to shop there. Get over it and yourselves.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Don't want to support the theatre showing Marion's movie, don't go there."

Agreed. I was just asking for a warning so I could make sure not to go there.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"Wow, do you just realize you just supported the argument of alot of the people you side against on here:"

Please explain.

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Confrontation 7 years, 5 months ago

They'll build the WalMart, and all sorts of West Lawrence soccer moms will fill the parking lots with their SUVs and Minivans. It'll stay just as packed as the other WalMart.

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monkeyspunk 7 years, 5 months ago

Scenebooster: If you can't make an argument with resorting to insults, perhaps you should take a break from these forums and go rethink your argument. You asked the question "why do we need another wal-mart?" and it was answered: "Market and Convenience." They wouldn't build if they thought that it would fail.

just_another_bozo: Wow, do you just realize you just supported the argument of alot of the people you side against on here:

Don't want to support the theatre showing Marion's movie, don't go there.

Same goes for Wallieworld, don't like it, don't shop there. If enough of you who dislike it can make your friends not go there, then perhaps it will fail. Market at work.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

chyzypoof said:

"Walmart has as much right to build there as any other store. If you don't like them, get over it. This should and is a legal issue, not an "I hate walmart" issue...."

I agree. Although Wal-Mart really does suck, and I don't shop there, the issue is one of zoning. That intersection is not appropriate for a department store (or whatever you want to call stores like Wal-Mart and Target) and that is the argument the city has been consistently making. It has not been waging an anti-Wal-Mart campaign. Otherwise, why would they have allowed the expansion of the S. Iowa Wal-Mart?

But that's just more of that logical "hippie" thinking you so despise.

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Sigmund 7 years, 5 months ago

Scenebooster seems to have missed my point. I was highlighting the irony of the impact of wasted tax dollars further litigation would cause numerous PLC proposed taxpayer funded projects. But of course you really believe that WalMart would build a store where there was no demand. You are an idiot.

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jafs 7 years, 5 months ago

Marion, there are a number of businesses in town that offer recycling pick-up at one's home - I believe they are fairly succesful, and charge for the service. I use one of them personally.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 5 months ago

The ONLY reason that WalMrt's recycling center is successful to whatever degree it is, is due to the fact that it is FREE to the public.

when the new EPA regs hit and cusinesses are established which will do recycling of other products and must CHARGE for the service(Very little that can be "recycled" can be so at a profit or break-even!), listen to the Greeinies howl then!

They are "Green" ONLY when it is free to them.

Thanks.

Marion.

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jafs 7 years, 5 months ago

imastinker, private businesses are in fact not allowed to determine wages on their own. That's why we have a minimum wage and other labor laws - to make sure that the greed of businesses is kept in check a little bit. America was built on a number of ideas, not just free market capitalism. And, of course, as logic points out, we haven't had true free market capitalism for a long time. If we cede control of our country to unregulated businesses, we will see the continuing abuse of money and power by those businesses, and the continuing decline in the average citizen's quality of life, health care, etc. The Constitution includes a phrase "to promote the general welfare" which seems oddly invisible in public debate. This country was not founded on a simple idea of individual freedom/unregulated businesses. And I do get very tired of the name-calling - one can disagree with a narrow-minded conservative/libertarian point of view without being a communist. While we're on the subject, the current administration seems to be violating the Constitution in significant ways - why is the president not being held to his promise to "uphold" it, as given in his inauguration oath?

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Zoning regulations and approval/lack thereof of various proposed developments are how communities regulate growth and help preserve their uniqueness."

Hey, screw that. We want our city to look just like every other damn city in America!

Has anybody driven across the country in the last 5 years? Notice anything interesting (and depressing)?

Why would anyone give up on their city and say "oh well, let the market decide"?

By that logic, shouldn't drugs be legal?

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jafs 7 years, 5 months ago

blue, I forgot about the recycling center - that is a good thing. I do think though that Wal-Mart, and other large corporations, should be made to follow laws, and not be allowed to run rough-shod over local communities just because they are big. Why does no one recall that the previous City Commission is reputed to have violated zoning regulations with their original approval of the project? Zoning regulations and approval/lack thereof of various proposed developments are how communities regulate growth and help preserve their uniqueness.

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imastinker 7 years, 5 months ago

This isn't about driving across town to a Wal Mart or whether the community can support it. Wal Mart thinks there is a market there, and they want to put their money where their mouth is. Lawrence doesn't want to let them, and is trying to choke out their interest by passing crazy zoning laws and trying to get them to quit. This is ridiculous.

Also, their wages are high enough because people still work there. They are entitled, like every other business in America, to decide what's fair for wages and prices. If people don't like it, people don't go there. If people don't go there, they go out of business. End of story.

America was built on this system. Only Fidel and Boog would disagree.

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logicsound04 7 years, 5 months ago

"BTW...I hate walmart too, but I feel like in the realm of free enterprise, they should be allowed to build. If no one goes and shops there, it will close, and you will win."

The U.S. hasn't been truly free-enterprise in 60 years, if it ever was. There is a long history of business regulation that goes both in favor of and against various businesses. Here's a hint: the big businesses that have the most money for lobbyists, get the preferable treatment and all the others share what's left.

That is why the Wal-Mart proponents wrapping themselves in the flag of "free-market" capitalism as their justification for building a SECOND GODDAM WALMART in a town of less than 100,000 need to research a little deeper.

Just because you own a business does not give you carte blanche to do whatever the hell you like. Though there are no specific laws about businesses locating in certain areas, I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart doesn't own the land. Therefore I feel that the city has more of a "right" to decide how the land will be used than some company based out of Arkansas.

Don't you guys ever get tired of reciting your own spin? Between the clever spelling of Commission (with a K) and calling everyone that disagrees with you stupid or liberal looneys or hippies, you sound like you have about a 50 word vocabulary.

If you disagree with us and, for some reason, WANT another Wal-Mart in Lawrence, then use well-reasoned dialogue to express your point rather than demonizing everyone who feels differently.

So close-minded.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"I think it's up to Wal-Mart to determine the "need" for another Wal-Mart"

What are you smoking? Do you envision a day when walmart says "nah, we're good, no need for another one"? They'd pave Lawrence over and turn the whole town into a walmart if they could (Eudorans need a place to shop too!).

"I hope the Kommission opposes Wal-Mart and it all goes back to court. Wasted legal fees should run up the city's defict leaving less money for libraries,"

Yeah, libraries suck, don't they? Just wish we could do away with the university so we could build a mall, so all you fans of Oak Park wouldn't have to drive that 20 minutes in your SUV...so sad. Why don't you people move to Olathe, where you wouldn't have to worry about an abundance of libraries and a shortage of walmarts.

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blue73harley 7 years, 5 months ago

There is plenty of demand for another Wally World in Larryville. The current store is constantly packed with shoppers. Compare the number of cars in its parking lot with Sears. I recently went to a Sears Grand - a former K Mart with higher Sears prices. There weren't many people there either.

And to jafs - there is at least one other benefit to Lawrence at Wal-Mart, the recycling center. And I personally like the new deli.

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Sigmund 7 years, 5 months ago

I hope the Kommission opposes Wal-Mart and it all goes back to court. Wasted legal fees should run up the city's defict leaving less money for libraries, roundabouts, street repairs and corporate welfare for the bus company. Wilgren's and Corliss's examinations under oath and the contents of their pretrial depositions will make for must see TV. Front page LJW articles on the conflict of interest of the PLC Kommissioners and illegal denial of Wal-Marts building permit will keep Bozo busy for days.

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Eybea Opiner 7 years, 5 months ago

I think it's up to Wal-Mart to determine the "need" for another Wal-Mart, not the planning commission. I believe the planning commission is to just insure that developments of all kinds meet certain standards.

Do we "need" Home Depot? After all, we had two Ace Hardware stores, plus Ernst. Do we "need" so many restaurants and fast food joints? As someone pointed out, we have 4 McDonald's. Do we "need" another bar in town? You can hardly swing a cat by the tail on 6th street without hitting a Dillon's or Hy Vee.

Do you anti-Wal-Mart folks think the city should decide what the market will bear, or should bear, for every kind of business? Centralized planning has certainly worked well in the old communist bloc, hasn't it?

It isn't long before northwest Lawrence is built to nearly Lecompton. There will be plenty of business for Wal-Mart on the west side of town.

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Richard Ballard 7 years, 5 months ago

Let them build it, for crying out loud! We want a neighborhood Wal-Mart store on the north side of town.

And while we are at it, lets finish the bypass along it's original planned route also.

The frogs & mosquito's will co-exist just fine in the man-made wetland.

rcmodel

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

"Convenience and market demand."

Convenience in this case could be called laziness.

Where exactly is the market demand? I don't see consumers clamoring for another walmart...it's the developers driving this effort, not the crys from Joe Bob and Angie that they just can't catch the bus all the way to 23rd & Iowa...

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jafs 7 years, 5 months ago

Interesting comments as always on this subject. Wal-Mart has a history of breaking labor laws and skirting zoning regulations in a variety of places. If it were just an example of "succesful capitalism", it wouldn't be as controversial. The book "Wal-Mart: The Bully of Bentonville" details much of their misbehavior, and was written by a Business Week journalist (not exactly a hippie left-winger). His conclusion is that Wal-Mart is bad for the American economy, as well as for the folks that have to work there. Wal-Mart has settled a number of lawsuits regarding unpaid overtime, etc. The comments regarding choice re: working/shopping there only apply to people who have enough money/employment opportunites to make other choices. The current administration seems rather uninterested in enforcing anti-trust regulations, thus essentially ceding the marketplace to large corporations - one of the basic tenets of capitalism is competition, which cannot flourish when large conglomerates/monopolies dominate the market. Wal-Mart does provide a wide variety of inexpensive goods, but that seems to be it's only benefit to a community, and we already have one in town. If it's true that the previous commission violated zoning requirements in allowing them to build there, why can't that be overturned?

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from_beautiful_downtown_topeka 7 years, 5 months ago

I do think we need one more Dunkin Donuts. I like their coffee (and it's cheaper than Starbucks).

On the west side of town. The one on the east side of town is a real pain in the arse to get in and out of.

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Emily Hadley 7 years, 5 months ago

"the whole parking lot behind the building criteria is POOR planning. it takes us back to the 1950's-1960's and gives us wonderful sights such as the hillcrest shopping center, dickinson plaza (an exception for the 1970's), and the malls shopping center...and last i checked two out of three have been suffering for years."

^This is bizarre. Those places all have parking in front of the stores. A bit of employee parking in the back by the dumpsters, yes, but the parking lots are definitely out front there.

The 50s and 60s were all about the cars--that is the era that introduced us to the front parking lot. Remember the drive-in diner? The drive-in movie theater?

Parking that doesn't leave you at the front store of one giant store is much more efficient, because it can be shared by multiple businesses, making it more useful to everyone.

Whatever slur anyone wants to use for chain discount box-store opponents, supporters, or nihilists, the bottom line is the same. These stores take money out of our city quickly and damage local markets by using their existing power for international buying power, resistance to labor unions and disregard for responsible production. People all over the world are either kept or made poor by the profitability of these stores.

In a country where money drives politics, we must pay attention to the largest corporation in the world, especially when it refuses labor unions, knows that our tax dollars to compensate for its employees' low incomes, and has power over international trade laws created to protect people from exploitation.

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

I want to be a "Deep Thraot" it sounds like an endangered species or something.

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chzypoof1 7 years, 5 months ago

You're right bozo, I dislike people on these forums that are hipocrites. They want everyone to be free...and encourage downtown....and save the sacred frogs in the swamplands.....

Walmart has as much right to build there as any other store. If you don't like them, get over it. This should and is a legal issue, not an "I hate walmart" issue....

BTW...I hate walmart too, but I feel like in the realm of free enterprise, they should be allowed to build. If no one goes and shops there, it will close, and you will win.

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buffalobill 7 years, 5 months ago

I live in the area and I hate the idea of a Walmart near the lake. Are developers trying to reshape this town for themselves or the people who live here? Why are people bent on destroying this town? Walmart mistreats their employees it's on the news everyday!!!!!!%$#@$$ Plus what's wrong with the one around the corner on Iowa. GREEDY DEVELOPERS!!!!!

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

Let us know where it'll be playing so we'll all be able to avoid a screening near us, Marion.

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Marion Lynn 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm working on a new TV special with the working title of "WalMart: The Dangerous Obsession".

90 minutes in length, it will be chock full of interfvews with wild-eyed "Progressives". "Smart(Read: "Dumb") Growthers" and those oppressed by the low wages paid by this corporate behemoth.

Special segments will deal with WalMart Anonymous; a self help twelve step recovery group for those compelled to zombie-like "Day Of The Dead" trips to the store to buy things that they don't need as well as WalMart Haters Anonymous; a faith-based system of overcoming the insane desire to cause all the WalMart employees to lose their jobs.

Attention will also be given to the "Deep Thraots" of WalMart; those who oppose WalMart in the daytime but who sneak in at night to make purchases so the neighbours don't know.

Thanks.

Marion.

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ControlFreak 7 years, 5 months ago

scenebooster,

Convenience and market demand.


Is anyone else tired of this whole thing? I don't think we need 4 Dillons or 4 McDonald's either, but they are still there.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"While I do believe the city commission has sucked (the Krauses are getting screwed)"

The commission has stated support for allowing the Krauses to operate their restaurant. They have even instructed staff to find the appropriate zoning mechanism to do that.

Sorry if it isn't happening as fast as you'd like, but it was the Krauses who decided to do this in violation of zoning restrictions.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

I'm not a hippie. I don't want ANOTHER walmart. I has a lot more to do with what kind of town I want to live in than liberal vs. conservative. While I do believe the city commission has sucked (the Krauses are getting screwed), no one on these threads has stated why there is a need for a 2nd Walmart (because there is none).

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bangaranggerg 7 years, 5 months ago

How can someone contact the West Lawrence Neighborhood association, I own a home which is directly affected with frontage on roads which would be used to cut through traffic at 6th and Wak. I feel like if this neighborhood association is voicing concern it should at least speak with people who actually could be affected. Who are they? If it's my neighborhood, why haven't I had say in their agenda? I could make my own association and not let anyone in the neighborhood in on it if that is how it works.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"This has become a huge hippie/political attack on Walmart itself, "

The "attack" is by people like you who hate anyone you percieve to be a "liberal hippie type." And you'll do it no matter how inappropriate or stupid the development is, as long as it's for a business you percieve as being on your "team."

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

"hippie/political attack"

Actually, it seems more like a logical human rights/economics attack to me.

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tony88 7 years, 5 months ago

There would be complaining if a 150,000 sq ft target were to be built there.

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chzypoof1 7 years, 5 months ago

Merrill, just don't shop there. Don't work there. End of story. We don't need your links AGAIN about how horrible they are.

This has become a huge hippie/political attack on Walmart itself, which is ridiculous. You people on these forums talk about freedoms, and liberty, but you want to stifle a business, just because it's walmart.

Let's pretend, for a moment, that they were building a 150,000 sq ft TARGET there. Would there be as much complaining? Nope. Cuz they're not the devil, right?

Anyway, get over it. The walmart will be built. Hippies will have to drive their Prius's around town, and all will be well.

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Rationalanimal 7 years, 5 months ago

This calls for ending the evening by singing Kumbaya holding hands round a camp fire on the banks of the Kansas.

After that's done, c'mon brothers and sisters, we're all down at Wal-mart saving money.

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KsTwister 7 years, 5 months ago

Solomon is right on this. The time to say no to them,came and went. Now just take the bad pill and at least save $$$ in legal litigation fees,Lawrence you lose and you can blame City Hall because they made the original decision.

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Richard Heckler 7 years, 5 months ago

Mayor Amyx, Wal-Mart is all about politics by their choice. Their low wages and agressive approach are not desirable in many communities.

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/news/

http://www.wal-martlitigation.com/front.htm

There are other places to shop and everything Wal-Mart is not a bargain.

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scenebooster 7 years, 5 months ago

Why is it so "outrageous" to try and plan what direction a city will move in? We have one big-ass walmart, why would we need another one? Are you people so damn lazy that you can't abide the 5-8 minutes it takes to drive from 6th & Wak to 23rd St.?

Has anyone on these threads tried to take a walk anywhere near 23rd & Iowa? Nope? I wonder why...if we allow a second walmart, more and more of Lawrence will start to look like Lenexa. If that's what you want (endless strip malls, no where to walk, no where to mingle with neighbors, gotta drive to get anywhere), then move to Lenexa!

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 7 years, 5 months ago

"i hate to complain all the time"

Given that that's all you do, you must have a miserable existence.

If this is approved it will only be to avoid litigation in which Wal-Mart has been given an upper hand by corrupt actions of previous planning and city commissions. 6th Street and Wakarusa will become just as big a traffic disaster as 23rd St.

Just another example of what happens when greed and stupidity are the main planning tools of a city.

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geppetto 7 years, 5 months ago

I am sorry but I don't see why we need another walmart. The one we have is enough.

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observer 7 years, 5 months ago

why not a walmart at 6th and k10, much better location

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Vince2909 7 years, 5 months ago

Lawrence has gone beyond funny with Wal-Mart wanting to build @ 6th and Wakarusa. Now all the fight has become is a showcase for the retards that govern the city. IMHO, it's the city a poor image and makes it look even worse. I mean, what would the city of Lawrence NOT regulate!?!?!? Oh, that'd be pot. But everything else is up for regulation. LOL

Sign me: Glad I moved and only come back for two day visits because two day's is all I can handle.

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irishblues 7 years, 5 months ago

Hey, if they don't like it on the west side, bring it over to 10. Plenty of room, it would bring some added business to this side of town.

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blue73harley 7 years, 5 months ago

This Wal-Mart will be built. Get over it. If you don't like it, don't shop there.

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Eybea Opiner 7 years, 5 months ago

Look at the corners on the south side of 6th street. Why should Wal-Mart be held to any higher standard than those corners. Any "aesthetics" have long been compromised.

The Looney Left has taken dead aim on Wal-Mart as an example of successful capitalism, and will apparently go to any lengths to stop them.

Don't like their wages? Don't work there. Don't like their products? Don't shop there (I don't).

It's a retail store, get over it.

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lunacydetector 7 years, 5 months ago

the whole parking lot behind the building criteria is POOR planning. it takes us back to the 1950's-1960's and gives us wonderful sights such as the hillcrest shopping center, dickinson plaza (an exception for the 1970's), and the malls shopping center...and last i checked two out of three have been suffering for years.

who comes up with these assinine ideas anyway? it seems that planning ideas go in circles. it's just like the roadways. first it is frontage roads galore, then it's traffic impediment islands running down the middle of the road - then someone gets the bright idea to tear out the islands and put in striped center turn lanes with multiple entrances, then it is frontage roads galore...etc....etc., now we are on the traffic islands running down the road. how many more years do we have to wait for those to disappear?

i hate to complain all the time but it seems like when it comes to planning, common sense doesn't apply.

could it be a rotation of the text books every few years, one favoring one idea over another then a few years down the road the other idea gets favored over the first idea?

are the planning professors too far removed from the real world? they gotta be.

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