There's been a plot twist in the proposal to build an expanded downtown library.
Lawrence Public Library leaders are now conceding that they're going to have to consider scaling back their plans by up to 40 percent in order to cut $15 million to $20 million off the project's estimated price tag.
"I suspect that option will not be the library board or staff's first choice," said library director Bruce Flanders. "We feel pretty strongly that it would result in a pretty serious compromise of services. But we also know this comes down to economic realities and political realities. We have to do what the community will support."
Private developers who have made proposals to partner with the city on the project also are changing their plans. Members of the Simons family - who have proposed building the library in a portion of the former Riverfront Mall - are working with the Fritzel group to join forces on the project.
The Fritzel group - which includes members of the Gene Fritzel Construction Co. - had proposed building the library on a new Vermont Street location as part of a much larger redevelopment of the Vermont Street corridor.
Angie Hurd, second from right, gives a cheer for the successful completion of a scavenger hunt by her daughter Mollie Hurd and Mollie's classmates at the Lawrence Public Library. On a field trip to the library Friday, from left, are Perry kindergartners Sara Haggard, Cole Logan, Kayla Kennon, Hurd and Mollie. Library leaders are looking at downsizing their plans for a new library project by about 40 percent to try to save $15 million to $20 million on the project.
Talks now center on the Fritzel group supporting putting the library in the Riverfront building but combining with the Simons group to create a large development district that would spur private redevelopment on portions of both Vermont and New Hampshire streets. The Simons said that would produce more tax revenue to help offset the cost of the new library.
The Simons group is led by members of The World Company, which owns the Journal-World.
Another private developer, Jeff Shmalberg, also said he has significantly changed his plans for a library in the 900 block of New Hampshire Street.
Library leaders have been talking about the need for an expanded or new library for more than a year. They point to long waits for the library's computers, overbooked meeting-room spaces and a consultant's report that states the library is undersized by about 30,000 square feet, based on Lawrence's population, as reasons why the community needs to more room.
Scaling back
The big question remains, though, whether all this library talk should be shelved under the category of fiction or nonfiction.
City commissioners have never committed to any library expansion, but they rather have just said they are interested in studying it. The project also is expected to be large enough that it will require voter approval either in the April city election or a subsequent election.
Whether the project wins approval from anybody likely will depend on cost. After meeting this week with City Manager David Corliss, Flanders said he was instructed to explore an option that would cap the cost of the library expansion at $30 million.
Settling in with a book together after a Friday morning scavenger hunt in the children's room at the Lawrence Public Library, John Hazlett, Perry, reads with Perry kindergartners, from right, Darcey Summerville, Hazlett's granddaughter, and Hazel Youngquist.
Mayor Mike Amyx said he thought the lower-cost option was an essential part of a library report that is expected to be completed late this month or early November.
"We don't want to do a Band-Aid fix on anything, but you have to balance the project against all the other projects the city has," Amyx said.
Shorter shelf life
Flanders believes an 80,000-square-foot library could be built for $30 million. That would be almost twice as large as the 45,000-square-foot building the library occupies at 707 Vt.
A library consultant recommends that Lawrence needs a 130,000-square-foot library to adequately serve the community through 2025.
"I would have to say that it would be impossible to make it to 2025 in that size of facility alone," Flanders said. "We would have to do satellite service, or branches, sooner than we thought. I think we would soon outgrow the building."
The consultant has estimated that the current library needs to be 72,000 square feet to meet the community's demands.
Flanders and his staff have come up with a proposal that would reduce the original 130,000-square-foot proposal by 13,000 square feet. He said he felt that was about as small as a new library could be and still serve the community through 2025. That option also will be presented in the library report that will be delivered to city commissioners. The price of that new building, though, was expected to be $40 million to $42 million.
Private options
Commissioners won't really know the true price of a library, though, until they also hear updated proposals from private developers who want to partner with the city.
The four developers are already working on new, but smaller, building plans.
Dan Simons, who is leading the Riverfront proposal, said the talks with the Fritzel group would result in both parties working to have the library built in the former Riverfront mall space.
"I'm still very excited about the library on the Riverfront," Simons said. "Now that there has a been a change in size, I think we're able to emphasize that our site is an existing 200,000-square-foot building that could be scaled to any size."
The Fritzel plan had proposed new office, condo, hotel and retail projects for the Vermont Street corridor. The Simons plan had called for office, retail, condo and hotel development as well on parts of New Hampshire Street. Both plans would have created large amounts of new parking options.
The general concept in the cooperation, Simons said, would be to create one large tax increment finance district that would encompass the areas to be redeveloped on Vermont and New Hampshire streets.
Tax increment financing is a device that allows new tax revenue generated by private development to be used for building public infrastructure that is included in the projects, such as streets, parking and public buildings. Simons believes the new district would be large enough to significantly offset the costs of a new library.
"I feel very confident that we could deliver a first-class library on the Riverfront for less than $30 million," Simons said.
Attempts to reach Thomas Fritzel, who is leading the Fritzel group, were unsuccessful. But Bob Schulte, a vice president for the Gene Fritzel Construction Co., confirmed talks were progressing.
Farther down New Hampshire Street, Shmalberg confirmed that the look of his project for the 900 block of New Hampshire had changed. The building no longer would span over New Hampshire Street.
"I thought that was a great plan, but for a lot of people at this point in time, they had trouble with the idea of going over the street," Shmalberg said.
By making the building smaller, the library now could fit on the southeast corner of Ninth and New Hampshire streets. Shmalberg said the site has strong possibilities because the library could directly tie into the adjacent Lawrence Arts Center, if leaders of both organizations so desired. Shmalberg also has preliminary designs that create a special collections room atop the library. At about 60 feet in the air, the room would provide vistas of most of Lawrence, he said.
Shmalberg declined to discuss how much his library plan may cost to construct, saying it was premature until a definite size had been settled on.
A development group led by Lawrence businessman Doug Compton also is still interested in the project. Dan Sabatini, the architect for the group, said he was working on plans to rearrange the layout of buildings for their site on the northeast corner of Ninth and New Hampshire streets.
He said the group was considering moving the library to the corner of the site to increase the library's visibility. Previously a commercial building that would house a hotel, a bank and condos took that prime location. That building would continue to be part of the project, but would be back farther on the site.
Sabatini also did not have cost estimates for his group's new library proposal.
Comments
LJWorld.com doesn’t necessarily condone the comments here, nor does it review every post. Read our full policy. Also, read about banned accounts and harassing comments.
lunacydetector (anonymous) says…
downtown lawrence needs something to draw people. a big fancy brand new library, while it sounds nice, just ain't gonna do diddly.
look at the lawrence arts center. when the city built and paid for that sucker plus the parking garage, the arts center was already (supposedly) drawing (unbelievably) 350,000 visitors a year at the old carnegie library location. i wonder what the numbers are today?
monkeyhawk (anonymous) says…
.......a consultant's report that states the library is undersized by about 30,000 square feet, based on Lawrence's population....
At the current pace, just wait a couple of years and the existing library will actually be too big for the population of Lawrence.
If he wants a new "library", Mr. Flanders needs to find a way to pay for it without hitting my pocket. More frivolous fluff disguised as a library, designed to protect downtown.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Oh what a Filbert! morning on the JW boards.
Godot (anonymous) says…
This is so Lawrence, so government. The cost is being cut back to just a little over $40,000,000? That is the figure they threw at us when the furor over this boondoggle started! Then the truth started slipping out, pushing the cost up.
Last year Flanders was predicting a new library would cost under $10,000,000.
Flanders says the reason he needs a bigger library is to provide more meeting space and computers. He did not even mention books or reading.
Just let the developers build their hotels, conference centers and condos on their own dime, and the rent out their conference rooms to the city or whoever needs a place to meet.
This is all about getting the public to finance the developers' ancillary projects.
merrill (anonymous) says…
There has been much conversation from Art Center children and parents supporting the location next door to the art center. It would nice for both parents and children who have time to kill. The wait could become interesting and an excellent use of time. It would also make excellent use of an existing parking structure. A stand alone library is preferable in my books. We do not need our children subjected to additional retail temptation while waiting for the next class.
If satellite libraries become necessary hey city commission let's help the school district and request a partnership in the Free State High School Library. Construct a public entrance.
Over time the Riverfront Plaza could probaly fill up as more space is necessary for city offices. Retail failed in that location once so I fail to see how any tax generation will produce enough. Not only that the curve at that location or anywhere near it is simply not designed for volumes of traffic. Cars back up waiting for traffic lights.
Tax generation from any retail/library combo is a long shot
at best. If the retail opportunites are so great why not go for it as stand alone retail.
Godot (anonymous) says…
Yes, Merrill, this is what Lawrence does. It uses taxpayer financing to build retail space that fails to fulfill its promise, then converts the retail space to accommodate the every-growing government.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
I see you're busy making sh*t up again to support your otherwise baseless posts, Godot.
Keep munching on those filberts.
irishblues (anonymous) says…
The Simons and the Fritzels, there's a pair to draw to. Can anyone tell me if they've joined up on projects before with success? I'm just curious, that's all.....
MacHeath (anonymous) says…
Here is an idea for downtown. How about the J/W move their operations, so that huge dead-space their building occupies (right in a prime Mass/New Hampshire spot)can be eliminated?
Fritzel can build their new building, and we will all be happy.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Great idea, MacHeath. The offices of the JW downtown would be fine, but having a manufacturing facility there makes absolutely no sense.
Godot (anonymous) says…
Read this editorial from January, 1990.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/1990/jan...
Lawrence has gone forward with nearly all the government funded projects, plus some, described in this editorial as being unaffordable without significant commercial growth, and it did so without the commercial growth.
Lawrence has been set on a course to protect downtown for nearly two decades, and look where it has gotten us - high taxes, bedroom community, little or no new industry.....
It is time to stop protecting down town at the expense of the rest of the community, and that goes for building a $30,000,000 meeting space disguised as a library.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Sorry, Godot, but a 16-year-old editorial from Dolph, whose screeds are even more baseless than yours, proves absolutley nothing.
janeb (anonymous) says…
The point is nothing has changed. The City continues to throw good money after bad and passes the costs to the residents of the Community; who are already paying out the nose for past errors in money managment on the part of our fine leaders.
Godot (anonymous) says…
You are right, janeb, not much has changed. Read this, from January, 1990:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/1990/jan...
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
It's amazing how impervious some posters here are to the real information available to them, and prefer instead to spew opinions based on "information" they conjure up from thin air.
There has never been any proposal from the city for a $70 million library, but because some private developers proposed that, the knee-jerk posters siezed upon that figure as if it had already been appropriated, and groundbreaking had begun.
Now that city leaders have officially confirmed that the library project will remain the much smaller project they had always envisaged, the knee-jerks continue posting as if the $70 million proposal were official city policy.
oldgoof (anonymous) says…
The photo shows a Perry family at the library. They probably used that Perry-Lecompton bridge no doubt, to drive to the Library.
Sounds like an DG Co. based amenity used by Jeff Co. residents for which they contribute nothing.
Not that I am suggesting that they should.
But Jeff Co. Commrs should contribute a reasonable amont (defined as something above zero, and closer to the originally agreed percentage) before some there take to again complaining about Lawrence and Douglas County and its elected officials as being self-centered and uncaring about their needs and safety on the bridge issue.
Godot (anonymous) says…
The reaction to the $70,000,000 to $110,000,000 proposals by the developers is precisely what caused the commission to realize that they have to re-size this project.
Reminds me of this:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/1990/apr...
monkeyhawk (anonymous) says…
$70 million, $40 million, $10 million. Doesn't really matter what the figure is. libraries do not generate taxes. Any library improvement will instead increase the tax burden of every citizen.
When the commissions fail in their responsibility to live up to the normal maintenance, nuts and bolts of running a city, take useless junkets, make radical proclamations in the names of all their citizens, impose their personal dislikes on everyone else, throw hundreds of thousands of dollars to lawyers to fight obvious losing causes, people are going to say ENOUGH!!
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Can you show one instance where any commissioner endorsed any of the developers' proposals, or even that scale of spending? Or, as per usual, are you subsituting your imagination for actual facts again?
Interestingly, one of those huge developer proposals came from the author of the vapid editorial you keep linking to.
Where do you imagine that fits into the greater scheme of things?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
You're nostalgic for old East Berlin, aren't you, monkeyhawk?
Godot (anonymous) says…
The fact that the commissioners posted the proposals on the city website is proof enough that they were accorded serious consideration, and that they were eliciting feedback.
Well, they got it.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
They solicited proposals, got proposals, posted proposals. I expect that they got feedback, too, but that doesn't mean that it was ever their intent to spend anything on the scale proposed by the developers.
As a matter of fact, if these proposals were ever to be advanced, support would more likely come from the two with Chamber support, Hack and Amyx.
Godot (anonymous) says…
The support would come from the friends of people who have a big ownership stake in downtown property, period. Simons, Schumm, Paley, Schmalberg, Compton, the Fritzels, to name just a few.
roger_o_thornhill (anonymous) says…
What a lineup. Infamous. That means more than famous right?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Of that group you list, only Schumm and Paley have been or might be supporters of PLC commissioners, and they are very small players compared with the others you list. They also did not submit proposals for the library expansion, while all of the others did, and they are backers of the two "chamber" commissioners, Hack and Amyx.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Welcome, FlakeyT-- you've pretty well got it pegged.
girly (anonymous) says…
Where is the center of Lawrence now? I think more people would be able to utilize the new library if they put it further west. How about the old Hillcrest theatre buiilding? It's big and it still has vacancies doesn't it? That'd be much more convenient for the larger population of Lawrence. Or, what about the food-4-less building, is it big enough? I love to go to the library, but it's been so inconvenient.
KsTwister (anonymous) says…
Ok BoZO just where do you keep your filberts? Most citizens in this city have enough intelligence to know that usually just a hint at something city hall wants becomes more truth than fiction (see roundabouts) .So why don't you go tap your nap now?
"What Lawrence leaders must figure out is whether it will be a bloody revolution for a city that is considering building a new, much larger downtown library that has cost estimates ranging from $40 million to $70 million."
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/jul...
"Commissioners did not eliminate any of the plans put forward by private developers, nor did they set a timeline for deciding whether to move forward on the project that likely would require $40 million to $70 million in public money."
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/jun...
Godot (anonymous) says…
Bozo, I have not suggested this is a PLC-driven issue, but since they have the majority on the commission, they could put a stop to it if they wanted to.
Here is another name to add to the list of investors who will benefit from the redevelopment of downtown at taxpayer expense: Larry Brown.
Somehow I think that any one of the property owners named so far could get the financing they need for their dream projects through private means. None of them needs a TIF. TIF should be used to attract developers to a blighted area, not to reward the winner in a battle for development rights of highly desirable property.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
Larry Brown is Compton's partner.
I agree-- most of these development proposals are way over the top. TIF should be used very carefully, which would likely exclude all of these proposals.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
"Spin but they are not very good at it!"
Spin is all you have, and you're not even good at that, Marion.
Godot (anonymous) says…
Compton pulled the same thing in Topeka. He bought land around Washburn, then made a proposal to the city to redevelop the area, and even got the city to take land by eminent domain from recalcitrant property owners.....then he asked for TIF.
What a resourceful fellow.
PeteJayhawk (anonymous) says…
"A free public library is appealing to the liberal masses."
Yes, Andrew Carnegie was a notorious liberal hippie type.
Godot (anonymous) says…
Andrew Carnegie gave millions of his own money to build libraries; he believed that the fruits of ones' labor should be returned to the public for the common good - freely.
The proposal for the multi-million dollar transformation of downtown Lawrence, forcing all taxpayers to underwrite the expansion of the fortunes of the already-wealthy property owners of downtown Lawrence, does not deserve even the slightest comparison to Carnegie.
Godot (anonymous) says…
If the aforementioned wealthy developers and supporters of a new library wished to follow in the footsteps of Andrew Carnegis, and were sincere in their belief that having access to a free library and meeting/convention space is the right of all Lawrencians, they would donate the funds necessary to build the new library and maintain it.
Instead, said developers/investors are proposing that the taxpayers of Lawrence pay them to build the library, then give them ownership of the building and land, in addition to financing the construction of the developers' privately owned condos, hotels and retail space. The developers would then have the good citizens of Lawrence pay them rent to use the library the citizens paid to build....of course, with an option to purchase in 20 or 50 years, at a price adjusted for inflation.
So much for philanthropy.
buffalo_star (anonymous) says…
Prehaps the term downtown is becoming passe a relic of a bygone era. How many Lawrence residents regularly visit the "downtown" area. Is it more important because its old and historic? Shouldn't the library be in an area the most accessible to all citzens or maybe more than one library would make sense.
pelliott (anonymous) says…
I really like the idea of it next to the arts center. The idea of fees to use the library sucks. The idea of fees to post to the ljw forum would be palatable to me. If I was more confident of the building at the Riverfront mall I would like that, but I watched water cross the promanade in 93, it looked like an omen to me, water, books and electrics don't seem all that cool together. I would like a more public use of that ugly building, Access is problematic, lots of walking to get in, then a block to navigate. I believe the escalators have been romoved.They would eventually expand to the East which use to be Glasses property, then the next land is the Cities. The City mouths that it is parklike land protected but it is NOT protected. The City has refused to plan it as a park, no more protection exist on that property than existed where the riverfront building sits. That land was once an old City Park, it should be protected with a plan, like the old landfill by the river. A conservation and use plan.
I like the idea that expansion plans should be presented and built into the core building. They rarely do that, add s to the upfront cost and dictates how they should decide in the future.
libraries serve us, bless them.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
There is no such thing as a "self-made man." While Carnegie was a talented man, and deserves much credit for his success, and his philanthropy, his wealth owes much more to his position as one of the robber barons of his era than to anything else.
If he had paid his workers better, their communities likely could have afforded to build their own libraries.
Godot (anonymous) says…
"If he had paid his workers better, their communities likely could have afforded to build their own libraries."
rotflmao!!!!!
Since Lawrence citizens are so underpaid, underhoused, and underinsured, and the streets are crumbling, and the sewer system is in disrepair, and the teachers are underpaid, the schools are underfunded, and the infrastructure of the university is falling down as we speak, where should this multimillion dollar library/computer lab/coffee house/parking garage/convention venue/loft apartments and upscale shopping zone be placed on the priorty list for taxpayer funded projects?
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
That'll be up to the voters, now won't it?
Godot (anonymous) says…
Yes, Bozo, it would have been much better if Carnegie had never made the money that enabled him to be the great philanthroper he was, nor to set the standard of giving for generations to come:
http://www.library.cmu.edu/Libraries/...
and
http://www.cmu.edu/magazine/02winter/...
Godot (anonymous) says…
"That'll be up to the voters, now won't it?"
No, prioritizing expenditutes is the job of the city commission. They can, and should, table or block or dismiss a project that does not fall within priorities before it even comes to a vote.
Given that the Commissioners have allowed the library project to come this far means that they intend to implement it unless turned down by the electorate.
Godot (anonymous) says…
Even worse, they could simply raise property taxes to fund the project, thereby avoiding the nasty business of asking for approval from the citizens.
kugrad (anonymous) says…
Keep on scalin' it down. We don't really need a new library, at least not downtown. We could use newer computers, a better, updated children's section. If they need some space, they could build up or add on to the west side. They could build another level of parking as well.
I personally feel that Lawrence would regret losing the downtown if it became largely unoccupied. You can't get something like we have back; you don't just go out and build another. That being said, I don't think any harm would come from having another library out in the central west part of town somewhere. This city is certainly large enough for two libraries.
KsTwister (anonymous) says…
Maybe this city needs to learn how to budget for them instead of breaking the backs of their remaining citizens with their whims of fancy.
martyks (anonymous) says…
Just amazing. If we continue to fail to invest in education... the whole country's doomed. To reduce this to shelter for the homeless and a retired guy reading the newspaper is beyond right wing nonsense. It's dangerously idiotic. Perhaps many of the people against a reasonably good library never learned how to use one.
just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (anonymous) says…
As robber barons go, Carnegie was certainly unique, and counteracted much of the bad karma he generated by his philanthropy. But he funded that philanthropy by "taxing" his workers, and they got absolutely no vote on the libraries he would later create.
Funny how you so admire a true autocrat who invested so much in the good cause of public libraries, but have so much contempt for elected officials who are attempting to do the same thing, but whose choices still need the approval of the voters before they are implemented.
Logic is obviously not your strong suit, Godot.
jafs (anonymous) says…
Macon, it's interesting that you single out liberals who have inherited wealth - what about George W. Bush and many of the conservative politicians currently in power? Without significant campaign finance reform, those with money and power have a disproportionate chance of winning elections, regardless of political affiliation.
In my experience/opinion, we do not need a new library, we need a better one. I have never had to wait to use a computer, but I have experienced the frustration of problems with computers and staff that is clueless. I have seen meeting rooms frequently unoccupied. I have seen the music/movie collection increasingly damaged.
My suggestions: Train the staff better, keep the circulating material in good condition (many of the CD's and DVD's skip and are unplayable), use space more efficiently, and hold patrons accountable for their use/abuse of materials.
For patrons: Just because the library offers free items, don't abuse them! Take good, perhaps better care of them than if they were private. After all, they are free! All you have to do is not damage them, and we can all enjoy them.
breeze (anonymous) says…
It simply astounds me that "progressive" Lawrence, "well-educated" Lawrence doesn't want to improve its library. I guess all of you folks who carp so much about paying for anything benefitting the community just want to be left alone so you can watch reality shows on TV. Reading?? only if it's the TV guide, right?