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Legislative STAFF?? Why not LEGISLATORS!!!!!!!!!!!
Exactly. Define "Staff". Does that include the elected legislators?
Exactly! My husband is a state employee and has not had any kind of pay raise for the past several years. Between that and my pay being frozen, we can barely make ends meet. Health insurance has gone up for both of us, as well as other costs of living, but not our pay. Why don't the legislators cut their own pay? Because it's simpler to pawn off the decision to people who are just getting by versus stepping up and being responsible. State employees typically make lower wages than those in the private sector. The positive side of being a state employee is that there's a little more job security (which is now also in jeopardy) and the hours are better, especially if you want to spend time with your children. However, the decreasing pay every year is getting scary. State employees are not this issue; its' the legislators.
sounds like you need a union to represent you.....yes a union prevents insurance and taxes going up without pay increases to off set it.
However, it is far easier for "them" to wail and bleet rather than organize. Most state workers detest unions like most Kansans. They're going to get exactly what they deserve, too.
While Unions are most certainly not perfect, they're a TON better than being represented by....well.....NOBODY or ANYTHING.
Alceste saw the rampant contempt for Unions while in state service. It was funny. Now it's far more amusing.
State employees have complete free health care? Why are you not on your husbands plan?
Not true; employees have to pay for spouses and children. Often times it costs less to insure under each person's own plan.
My "share" of the premium comes directly out of my earning; and I pay (copays) for office visits, lab work, procedures - and prescriptions. I opted for dental and vision coverage which add to the premium costs, and to the out-of-pocket expense for a crown and new glasses.
I have the 85 points (for retirement), but I can't leave until I'm eligible for medicare. ...
That is sooooo not true. The cost of our family coverage goes up each year. And wissmo, the individual employee's coverage is not free -- check facts before you leap into making such an ignorant comment.
Why did you say that, it is so totally not true.
Then let's cut the pensions of legislators.
none2, Thank you for your comment.
TRY THIS QUESTION: Do you think all state employees, elected and appointed, should be included in proposed pay cuts?
AND THIS QUESTION: Do you believe, that in the best interests of everyone in the United States, we return to the income tax laws of the 1950s?
When you answered "YES" to both questions you convinced me. You are a person who believes in equity. Who believes that the equitable, charitable sharing of our nation's resources benefits everyone.
Of course they should be cut. To do otherwise is just plain hypocritical. Cut state employee salaries, except for my staff who I really like and will have to look in the eye if I cut their pay.
Warning - Pet Peeve Rant - Read at Your Own Risk!
Will people stop saying "We need to recall these guys." Look at the friggin' recall statute and you'll see that recall is not an option in this and most other situations that people are calling for a recall.
Best to do your "recalling" next time you vote.
I would like to know the figures for how much money the tax cuts to the wealthiest are? How much money do we give directly and indirectly to economic development.? How much money would taxing the corporations without loop holes bring? If I had those figures I could have a better sense about how I feel about cutting the salaries of state employees, decreasing the pensions of state employees and rather legislative support staff should enjoy or not enjoy a salary cut.
Considering that there is no justification for cutting state employees' salaries in the first place the question seems malformed. Besides, the Senate has already shown itself on a number of occasions to have a far better handle on reality than the House, so the question is definitely premature. If Senators could see that it wasn't logical to eliminate the Arts Commission, are they likely to go along with unnecessarily cutting state employee salaries just because some members of the House have simplistic minds?
Brownback's budget proposal didn't include cuts to salaries. He has stated that his primary concern is to see growth in the economy, and it's unlikely that he believes that cutting the incomes of a large number of people is a good way to make the economy grow. If raising taxes is a bad idea in an ailing economy how smart would it be to take money out of the economy by imposing pay cuts? Well, let's see, Brownback did not propose cuts to state employee salaries but Anthony Brown likes the idea. There's the answer.
Anthony Brown has been bought and paid for by the Koch brothers. Their agenda is now his agenda. When his children graduate college and start their $14 per hour jobs, then maybe he will realize that cutting salaries of the working/middle class was a mistake....
The KS House is generally known (and behaves) as grandstanding children getting their tantrum in.
OK, done, children. We know how you feel about state employees.
If they were to start showing some backbone and fiscal responsibility and drop the bumpkin act then perhaps they'd be able to reverse their poor image.
This is where we find out who the idiots are in the state legislature.
Go on. You have our attention.
Isn't this the same legislature that is contemplating enticing new residents from out of state
by offering them all kinds of tax exemptions, both income & property tax. Of course all those
"overpaid" public employees who are getting a pay cut will be expected to subsidize these new
"settlers". I assume they will have to fill out a form describing their political affiliation so we
won't allow any "udesirables" in. I hope you are all taking notes on who is voting for all this, don't
want to make the same mistake next time.
I'm curious why 20 people voted no. Why do you think the support staff pay shouldn't be cut too?
Honestly? Because its early & I misread the question.
Same. Pre-coffee reading is a no no.
same here - sorry.
Are you three from Florida?
How in the world does anyone think that cutting salaries will help balance the budget? If Kansans make less money, they have less money to spend so the State collects less sales tax money. They have less money to report as income, so they pay less income tax. They have less money to spend so the economy does not grow.
If the State gives more tax breaks to corporations, the Koch brothers make more money (being the18th richest men in the world isn't enough) and the State takes in less money. If the State gives tax breaks to entice people to live in western Kansas, people flock to western Kansas to avoid taxes in other parts of the State (because of all the opportunities out there, not).' Wow, the economic growth is just amazing.
Lets also cut all rates that the state pays for contracted service and consultants as well. It is where the real money is spent.
LJW, you got it wrong again. The correct poll question should be "Do you support an additional tax on State Employees through pay cuts?"
My point they should be asking "Do you support a pay cut for state employees?" not should some employees be exempt. It is effectively a tax on a select group of citizens. Those who are state employees. State employees do a job for a salary or wage. Cutting that salary or wage and expecting them to do the same work is effectively the same as saying we going to tax you at a different rate than other citizens. The work they do is to benefit the state as a whole. Therefore all who benefit should be expected to pay for the benefit. For example let's say you are an employee of a retail business and your employer told you he would charge you more for a product than a regular customer so he did not have to raise prices for other customers. How do you think you would feel about that?
That's funny, but sadly true. People have been convinced that not allowing tax cuts is a tax increase!
Gotta love the tough talk, cowardly walk. Enough of a scuzz ball to cut funding to anyone they don't actually know. They can stomach cutting education & insurance for poor kids because they live in an insulated white bread world where they never actually hve to see the effects of their decisions first hand.
Thats why they lack the cojones to cut funding for people who are much better off, they have to look them in the eye. Orphans: if you really want to keep your benefits, you need to get in some face time with the Ledge, duh!
This is the legislature Kansans voted for. Those straight ticket Rebublican voters are getting exactly what they wanted. "I don't care if (insert name here) is a scum sucking, racist, SOB, he's a Republican and that's good enough for me".
We are going to have to live with this until the next elections. Unfortunatly, the majority will do it again..and again.. and again. If you want a better life, best make plans to move to another state.
we got these bozos thanks to all the people who voted against their own interests by being one issue voters who thought the republicans had "the right values". now is the time for the bleeding heart do gooders (are you reading this marci?) to stand up and go after them.
Exactly, precisely, and amen!!!
How do we get through to the people in this state that they're cutting their own throats? All a wingnut needs to do to get re-elected is say "Republican", "family values", or "cut taxes" and they're a shoo-in. Never mind that taxes have gone up to fund tax breaks for corporations, or that the "pro-education" governor cut schools until they bleed.
It isn't the "bleeding heart do gooders" , whoever they are, who need to go after them. It's the conservative, God-fearing Republicans who voted for them in the first place who need to stand up and say "Enough!"
I was tempted to answer no because implicate in the question , should legislative staff be exempt, To answer yes, implies some justification for the state employees cuts in salary and cuts in pension. I don't think that can be answered unless we see the figures on how much tax cuts to the wealthy, industry, and corporations cost us. How much economic development and tax loop holes are costing us. That is the exceptions I want to compare to other cuts made.
I thought about that too.
Why so many emotional arguments? The State is broke and there biggest expense is salaries. We do not share wealth in the country, you have to earn it. Many State workers make more than they earn. While I'm sure a smaller few perform more of the work and make less than they earn. We will never become great as a country again until everyone works harder and earns their pay not just joining groups to protect their jobs from their own incompetence. Lets not forget about the pensions, when most in the private sector are on their own for retirement do not underestimate that benefit.
And can you prove to us that the legislative staff works harder than other state workers?
Can you prove that they don't? If we are going for proof, it should work both ways.
So you think they should be paid more, without proof that they are any more valuable than other state workers? I suppose you are one of those people who think CEO's who run a business into the poor house, should still get bonuses.
Their biggest expense is salaries.
I doubt that statement is accurate.
First and most important, I think the biggest expense is tax cuts, tax loopholes and subsidies to Industries, corporations and the wealthy. That figure which is absent from the debate is probably higher than state personnel salaries.
Second, some of those salaries are points of revenue, they do not include the fact that some fees and services they perform bring in revenue which are not counted into the cost of personnel..
itwasthedukes, you, like so many others like you, do not know what you are talking about. Can you quote a single statistic or fact to support anything you have stated? Or can you only parrot the sound bites you hear from the other Republicans?
Most state workers make much less than their private counterparts and work just as hard or harder for it. I do not know many private sector employees who work nights, weekends, and holidays to protect your safety. In my experience in both public and private sector there are those who do more to earn their pay and those who do less.
I forgot to add the first thing that popped into my head when I heard this. I guess the house slaves always did get better treatment than the field slaves.
Great comment. Soon there will be no Public Servants only Public Slaves.
"i voted no because I do not think they should cut state employees pay."
Unfortunately, that was not the question. Voting "No" indicates you don't believe Kansas legislative staff should be included in the same pay cuts other state employees may be subjected to.
The question was premised on the presumption the pay of all other non-legislative staff state workers could be cut. Given that presumption, do you believe Kansas legislative staff should be included in the proposed pay cut as well?
Extra credit will be given for explaining why you do or don't agree Kansas legislative staff should be included in the proposed pay cut.
Oh hell yes! Why are they so special? I can not believe that 61 people think they should not be treated like everyone else (and 10 have no idea? really? you are pass checkout time)
This is garbage and I can not believe they had the testicals to propse this!
Those who have always worked for the guvmint, should try the private sector's benefits so they'd quit their whining.
I have and I was much better off. Foolish me thought at one time trying to do something for the good of the public was a good idea. Maybe you should try being a public servant and see how you like it.
Nothing angers me more than the people we elect to represent us putting themselves above the laws and policies they create As Americans, nothing is a bigger slap in the face to us. This isn't a democracy, this is just a further exercise in the powerful exempting themselves from anything they don't like, They don't know how they would get by if they lost their support staff? Duh! How do they think universities manage when they dictate budget cuts. If we want a viable, financially stable government, we HAVE to cut cots and we HAVE to increase taxes. And anyone who exempts themselves should be tried for treason.
I agree; off with their heads!!!!!
If they are so keen on not cutting their support staff's pay they should just pay them less than $40,000.
If by support staff you mean the legislative secretaries, I doubt if any of them make more than $40,000/yr anyway. If you mean the other office staff, i don't even know what they are called or their average salaries.
I sure hope they are cutting their own salaries while they are cutting. I'd vote for sending them all home now before they do any more damage.
Oh, and term limits. Definitely term limits.
No one should be getting a pay cut. State and Federal legislatures are always trying to balance the budget on the backs of civil service employees.
Corporate CEOs are the ones who need to be taking a pay cut.
Yes, indeed they should be. Everytime I have tried to get the state government to do anything, I am cut short at the phone call, asked to jump thru hook they themselves should be jumping tho, not me.
Cut out the middle men and we take back our state government.
No hard working state employee should be receiving pay cuts. That will NOT promote economic growth.
TABOR will wreck our economy!!!!
It isn't really about the state employees. We should be analyzing costs not people. What services can we do without? (HINT: KS unemployment office should not have reduced staff hours when the number of unemployed Kansans is increasing.)
I don't understand why this is the question you decided to ask. Most people probably don't even know how these employees differ from other state employees. In fairness, yes, they should receive the exact same cut as the employees of any other branch in government. When the legislature isn't in session executive branch rules apply to they anyhow. However, I don't support the idea of cutting any employee salaries. This will do nothing but drive more talented people into private sector employment.
This has been said before but I will say it again.
The state employees have been passed over for raises in wages and benefits for a number of years. It is important to be able to attract talented workers to state jobs because they increase productivity.
By politicizing this issue and cutting wages, the state of Kansas provides a further incentive to the talented workers to seek other jobs. If they leave, productivity will drop and you will be getting less return on your investment.
The legislature decided to exempt their own employees because they said they needed to maintain enough incentive to retain the level of talent they needed.
Where is the disconnect here?
It is politics pure and simple.
Politicians will not be able to control themselves. Voters must disconnect from party affiliations and start making independent and rational decisions.
My strong recommendation is for people to become independent politically and try to separate themselves from indoctrination.
This is not about saving money. This is about politics.
I agree that state employees should not receive lower pay. The KS legislature has lost all credibility with this latest fiasco. I hope the voters remember.
One of the truly nice things about all of this is the realization that the next election cycle will be a blood bath.
Sorry Cait, though I wish it weren't so, Kansas is a place where we've elected the same knotheads over and over and over, while they've killed ranching and farming, killed virtually all our industries, and are now eating education and public services. They've campaigned over a dozen elections to "save the babies" and have never done a legally applicable thing to do even that. With birdbrains like the new Sec. of State jousting with the neighbor's laundry while it flaps in the breeze, we've gotten ourselves a fine kettle of fish.
We will keep doing what we've been doing, and will keep getting what we've been getting.
My money is on Uruguay.
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