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Do you think the new regulations for Kansas abortion clinics are too strict?

Response Percent Votes
71% 684
24% 237
I’m not sure
3% 34
Total 955


ksjayhawk74 6 years, 12 months ago

These laws were specifically made to be able to shut down abortion providers, not matter what they did.

ljwhirled 6 years, 12 months ago

Then get a constitutional amendment passed to make it illegal.

Don't circumvent the law to take away a woman's right to choose, it is dishonest and unworthy of our democracy.

TheStonesSuck 6 years, 12 months ago

You misunderstand the argument Tange, at least as far as the SCOTUS is concerned. Women within the jurisdiction of the United States have a right, inhered in the 14th Amendment, to be free from government intrusion in their decision to seek an abortion pre-viability of the fetus. The argument is not as convoluted a you would like to believe, it's based in America's foundation of personal rights, and freedom from government intrusion in our lives.

TheStonesSuck 6 years, 12 months ago

Your morality does not interest me. Sorry, pal.

TheStonesSuck 6 years, 11 months ago

The fact that most Americans (including myself) refuse to buy what you're selling, clearly rubs you the wrong way. Boom. Roasted.

bradh 6 years, 11 months ago

It didn't take an amendment to make it legal, why should it take an amendment to make it illegal?

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 12 months ago

Nah, we'll just starve and refuse to take care of and educate the born children we've already got. They can rely on "faith based" services out of churches since, although it's obviously the state's business to prevent abortion, it's none of the state's business how those children are cared for once they're here. It will, however, be fodder for the fat and lucrative private prisons; jailing women for abuse, murder and neglect of unwanted children, once the draconian drug laws are repealed and they have to release those people caught with a couple of joints.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 6 years, 12 months ago

This is the governer and state legislature trying to oppose the fact that abortion is legal, safe and allowed in the United States.

It has nothing to do with "right to life" it is "reight to punish" those women who become pregnant and are in dire straits. It is religious voodoo from people who were elected to govern and who feel it is their self-righteous mission to impose their religion on the entire civilization.

This is the sharia-like law that we are destined to get if we keep electing these idiots to public office.

pubbing 6 years, 11 months ago

So it is a human being once it is not "completely dependent on the mother". If that is your definition of human being than my 1yr old isn't even a human yet.

Granted modern science has changed that dependency from "mother" to 'parent' since now we have things like formula.

But generations ago when the only sustenance for an infant was human breast milk the child would have been completely physiologically dependent on the biological mother well after being expelled from the womb. Were those children not human beings?

Sure the child could breathe on it's own and have it's own circulatory system but was still completely dependent on others for transportation and needed it's biological mother for food. What good is an independent circulatory system when it has no nutrients to transport which generations ago could only come from the mother?

Out of all the "is it a human yet?" arguments this one is the easiest to shoot down.

Jan Rolls 6 years, 12 months ago

Nothing but sham laws to put thier personal views against the law. Another lawsuit filed today. Hope they spend millions trying to defend outrageous laws.

ljwhirled 6 years, 12 months ago

Yeah, spending millions that could have been spent on health care for the mentally handicapped, special education, etc.....Where are all those jobs Sam?

xclusive85 6 years, 12 months ago

The regulations are not too strict, the timeline is, however.

kantubek 6 years, 12 months ago

Careful, you wouldn't want to be an anti-Xtian bigot with your liberal media bias.

kansanjayhawk 6 years, 12 months ago

If you believe abortion should be "safe" and "legal" then you should support these reasonable clinic regulations. If you are opposed to abortion you should also support these regulations as they at least set some limits as far as health and safety at the clinics. In essence this is really not an abortion issue it is a public health matter and these clinics should be required to live up to at least minimal standards of health care.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 12 months ago

They were not even written by doctors, but by politicians, what the heck do they know about medical procedures?

Again, I directly accuse you of false witness as you nor I are stupid enough to think that these extra level of medical regulations not written by doctors has ANYTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with halting abortions.

xclusive85 6 years, 12 months ago

What in the regulations do you think is unreasonable? This is besides the timeline, which I agree should be changed.

TheStonesSuck 6 years, 12 months ago

The parental notice requirement defies logic. Assuming notice is required because parents have an interest in whether their daughter receives an abortion due to the fact that she's underage, why does their interest trump the interest of the girl in her own "child"? The only logical justification is that the already-born girl is subject to a higher level of control by her parents than the pregnant girl has over the fetus. That can't be it however, because it would undermine the "pro-life" argument that the fetus is entitled to the same amount of protection as a human. "One of these things is not like the other." lol

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 12 months ago

Please don't confuse the poor dears with "logic". You'll be accused of being everything from "ant-Christian" to a "baby killer".

Kathy Theis-Getto 6 years, 12 months ago

Please don't confuse tange's use of childish retorts, nor his pseudo-wordsmithing for understanding the plight of a woman making a choice to do what she will with her own body.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 11 months ago

and I thank you for making my point, this has NOTHING to do with medical safety, but ONLY as a way for Christian Supremacists to circumvent the Constitution to try and force women raped by their fathers to breed.

ivalueamerica 6 years, 11 months ago

how very very dishonest of you.

The point was, you could care less about the safety regulations and you readily admit you see these regulations not even written by doctors as a means to circumvent the Constitution to end abortion based on your version of Christianity.

That is immoral.

Kirk Larson 6 years, 12 months ago

Then why aren't similar surgical clinics also held to these same standards. Why only abortion clinics if not to make an end run around a woman's right to make decisions about her own body. This is all about a backhanded way to outlaw abortion. Freedom to choose: It's the American Way.

Mary Alexander 6 years, 12 months ago

The only problem it is not minimal standards of health care they have placed regulations that are even more than what you will find in hospitals and other types of Clinics. that is the real issue. They also are not giving them time to make sure the Clinic can make the changes before they inforce the new regulations. This is what is also wrong with this issue. I am pro-choice and I feel that regulations are okay as long as they are fair and handled correctly which they are not.

Jeremiah Jefferson 6 years, 12 months ago

Whats wrong with being responsible to start with and using proper birth control or contraceptives to start with? Seems to me that would be cheaper and safer than an abortion. If you don't want a kid, then don't put yourself in the position to have one. What is so hard about that?

kantubek 6 years, 12 months ago

Because many of the same people who are vehemently anti-abortion are in favor of abstinence only sex-education. To them, teaching their children about contraception is immoral, as outlined by their faith. Bristol Palin is a great example of how this method of sex-ed works out.

Glaring, isn't it?

xclusive85 6 years, 12 months ago

Many of the same people are also not in favor of abstinence only sex-ed. Most children attend public school. What public school teaches abstinence only sex-ed?

kantubek 6 years, 12 months ago

Those parents typically sign a waiver to opt their child out of sex-ed in public schools. I went to a private school and was taught everything BUT contraception. I guess they must think that if they never touch the subject, that their child will never have sex.

"Out of sight, out of mind" could sum up their approach.

"Out of foresight, out of their minds" sums up the truth of the matter.

somedude20 6 years, 12 months ago

Cutting the funding to Planned Parenthood is not going to help with people having access to birth control

Kirk Larson 6 years, 12 months ago

Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes abortion is medically necessary. All the times it's just none of your gulldern business if that is the decision a woman makes. Maybe she can't afford another child to care for. Maybe she's young and does not feel responsible enough to raise a child. Maybe she's a victim of rape or incest. Maybe she has health concerns. It's HER choice. Unless you want the government interfering in personal medical decisions.

Kyle Neuer 6 years, 12 months ago

Amazing how these "conservatives" hate government and want government out of their lives and their personal business, yet are willing to let government, increasingly, get between a doctor and his/her patient in this particular instance. The inconsistancy of these "principles" is staggering.

mloburgio 6 years, 12 months ago

Pious sam is wants to be the leader of the Quiverfull movement here is kansas. Born to Breed: The Quiverfull Movement and its impact on patriarchal policies and right wing politics

Quiverfull Believers eschew all forms of birth control in favor of “trusting the Lord” with their family planning. The Quiverfull ideal embraces a “biblical” model (read, fundamentalist) of the traditional family which insists that the husband is the head of the household and the wife is the submissive “helpmeet.”

Maybe we need to start invading countries with cooler climates: The amount the U.S. military spends annually on air conditioning in Iraq and Afghanistan: $20.2 billion.

bangaranggerg 6 years, 12 months ago

Christians who are seeking to abolish abortion by passing laws, or in this case making it inconvenient, are only doing so to appease their smug sense of self righteousness. If they put half the effort they put into trying to criminalize it instead into helping out women who have unplanned pregnancies they might actually do some good. Outlawing it will result only in terrible home remedy options, a black market, and medical vacations. It won't work for the same reason prohibition didn't work. Bottom line is too many women will still seek to terminate their pregnancies and will be forced to find other ways to do so. So stop arguing about being pro life or pro choice and do some actual good for people, because expecting legislature to govern moral or social ideology is your worst possible move.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 12 months ago

Pointing out the reality of what life was like for women when abortion was illegal is being a "fanatic"? Wow. And by the way, they aren't "pro-lifers", they're "pro-birthers". They could give a rats patootie about a child once it leaves the uterus.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 12 months ago

Just out of curiosity, since doctors are no longer allowed to determine viability of a fetus, what are they going to do when a fetus is determined to be dead and have no heartbeat? Let it rot inside the mother for the next 60 years?

Ralph Vickers 6 years, 12 months ago

REGARDLESS of how she got pregnant, if you abort the natural birthing, it is still killing a human being. A heart beat starts at about 6 weeks. THAT IS LIFE!! AND IT IS STILL MURDER.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 12 months ago

Not to confuse you with logic but a "beating heart" does NOT "equal life". if you believe that then you need to take it up with, not just various medical ethics committees, but your own state legislature. Otherwise people who harvest organs for transplant would in a heap of trouble for committing murder. Even the laws of the state of Kansas define "life" as "brain activity", not a "beating heart".

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 12 months ago

Excuse me, "would BE in a heap of trouble"...

Kirk Larson 6 years, 12 months ago

For all those with the Life-begins-at-conception view, have you considered the clinic fire scenario? Suppose you are at a fertility clinic. A fire breaks out and you have to make a choice: rescue a container with a frozen embryo or rescue a one week old baby. You'd take the baby, right? Now what if it was a container with 10 frozen embryos? You'd still grab the baby wouldn't you? how about 100? or a thousand? ten thousand? You know deep in your heart that there is a big, big difference between an embryo and a born baby.

Kirk Larson 6 years, 12 months ago

Dude, either get back on your meds or get off 'em. Which ever it takes.

booyalab 6 years, 11 months ago

Have you considered the Hollywood event fire scenario? Suppose you are at a generic Hollywood event attended by all kinds of celebrities. A fire breaks out and you have to make a choice: if you're a woman, rescue Clive Owen or Gilbert Gottfried. If you're a man, rescue Blake Lively or Rosie O'Donnell. Since you're saving this person's life, there's a good chance they will be your personal slave forever. Come on, you know you're going to save the attractive person. But does that mean that we should be allowed to exterminate the uglies, or that anyone would jump to that conclusion based on a stupid hypothetical scenario that would never happen and is completely subjective even if it did? Of course not.

Centerville 6 years, 12 months ago

Doesn't it get tiresom, still having to carry water for Kathleen Sibelius' funders?

Jeremiah Jefferson 6 years, 11 months ago

You know, I could really care less either way about abortion. In cases of rape, a woman being physically unfitt to give birth and other rare situations I can certainly agree with abortion. What I have a problem with is when a woman fails to act responsibly by not protecting her self against not only an unwanted pregnency, but sexually transmitted diseases as well. Thats great everyone screams pro choice, its the womans choice, what ever.. It was also the womans choice to act a fool by not taking the proper precautions to prevent a pregnency to start with. So don't expect sympathy about it when all it would have taken is some comon sense to start with. To me it really doesn't seem ok to nulify a pregnency just because of carelessness. If you really just have to get an abortion, then so be it. Its on your shoulders, not mine. Who knows, you might have just killed the next Hiesman Trophy winner or the next Albert Einstien.. Nothing says "the easy way out" like an abortion thats for sure.

notaubermime 6 years, 11 months ago

"in short, a potential for personhood" I think that is a very apt and telling description of the issue at hand. When does a woman (who has attained full personhood) lose the right to make choices regarding her body? Can a zygote which has not reached personhood outweigh the rights of a person just because there is a possibility that it will reach personhood itself one day?

As for your arguments against viability, they don't hold water in my book. There is a difference between the environmental requirements necessary to sustain a human population and the physiological dependence of a zygote/embryo/fetus. The physiological dependence is restricted to one person. You cannot take the embryo out and place it in another person. You cannot adopt it out. The only place it can survive is in the mother's uterus. It is a unique situation which cannot accurately be compared to any other human interaction.

Reuben Turner 6 years, 11 months ago

at the end of the day, there are a whole lot of things that are wrong and folks is still doing them. Lying is wrong, spouses cheating on each other is wrong, murder, stealing, drug trafficking, drug use, incest, messing w/ under age folks, and the list goes on and on. people are still doing them and some are just getting a slap on the wrist when they do get caught. point being, I ain't for it, but i ain't going to sit around and fight against it. it's necessary at times(i guess). I haven't even read the guidelines, i just felt like blogging!! lol!!

riverdrifter 6 years, 11 months ago

About 8 years ago a close relative of mine became pregnant. Hooraay! Everybody's happy. But her health soon ran downhill and after much clinic time, she was diagnosed with a form of agressive brain cancer -at 22 years of age! The chemo alone damn near killed her and the fetus had no chance against that so it was ended before the chemo ever started. Thank you Dr. Tiller. Thanks to invitro, today she has a wonderful 2 year-old son. She has seen great physicians on both ends and the middle and as a family, we're grateful to them all.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 11 months ago

Imagine that she wasn't allowed to do that, RD. Under the current laws that just went into effect she wouldn't be. Despite the fact that she had a life threatening illness, the pregnancy itself wasn't life threatening to her. She would be forced to go through with it or go to a state where it was permitted.

pubbing 6 years, 11 months ago

That is not true. The pregnancy was not viable in the first place because the chemo would have killed the baby. Her only choice was to have a healthy baby and die or abort and live.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 11 months ago

Despite the fact that there are a number of women on the "pro-birth" side, I suspect it would play out a lot differently.

CHKNLTL 6 years, 11 months ago

The actions of the (religious) state make sense when viewed from a different perspective. It is not about saving lives through abortion restrictions or safety for abortion seekers, or even abstinence-only education. It is an underhanded attempt by the government to make women so afraid of becoming pregnant that they refuse a lifestyle involving any sex, or make their men get vasectomies. Then you will have to PAY to become pregnant when you're "ready". As if any of us could ever save enough money to support a baby in today's economy. One point score for the NWO. thanks you worthless republicans.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 11 months ago

Wow. I never thought of it that way. I have several friends that are child free. They won't ever have kids. I have to tell them this. It will give them heart that some day they really can go out to a restaurant and not have to deal with squalling babies or whiney kids. OTOH you have places like Germany where the birth rate is so low that the government is offering women 15K each to have babies.

Paul R Getto 6 years, 11 months ago

tange (anonymous) replies… It's not a "hard-line" stance. It's a moral stance. ====== Good point, and worth debating. Also note 'morals' are inventions too, just like Muscular Sam's skygod, the constitution and nearly everything else we've thought of in the past 10,000+ years. Thank goodness they invented beer along the way...........Gonna need one after this discussion.

Cait McKnelly 6 years, 11 months ago

Heh, I had a Blue Moon,myself, last night after all of this. :P

tbaker 6 years, 11 months ago

Without exception, everyone I have ever known is glad their mom gave birth to them.

50YearResident 6 years, 11 months ago

God told Brownback to save the children. He said if Brownback did it, then God might let Brownback into heaven. Otherwise, no deal!

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 11 months ago

To the religious out there: when does ensoulation occur? When does god put a soul in a physical vessel, making it a human being?

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 11 months ago

Poor tange. Confusing moral stances with self-righteous, holier-than-thou, grand-protector-of-lumps-of-tissue stances.

I have noticed that those opposed to abortion really get a kick out of playing the protector, the self-sacrificing martyr. I think it makes them feel special and bigger than what they really are.

"I may be a schmuck who sells insurance and lives in a little house with a pitiful wife and a few ragged kids, but by god I am a crusader for the unborn, grand protector of all that might be human at some point".

These are people who exploit the darkness and ambiguity that is part of human existence. Sometimes tough decisions must be made. Instead of recognizing that individuals must be allowed to deal with darkness and ambiguity in their own ways, these people exploit it for their own often twisted beliefs.

If you need proof of my assertion, look only to the signs of bloody and dismembered fetuses carried by corrupted anti-abortion zealots. By these standards, surgery should be outlawed (indeed, some xtians are opposed to surgery).

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