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Do you support the building of a mosque and Islamic cultural center a few blocks from the site of ground zero in New York City?

Response Percent Votes
51% 935
43% 806
Not sure.
4% 91
Total 1832


riverdrifter 5 years, 3 months ago

It's not a mosque. There's a strip joint almost caddy-corner from where they want to build it, BTW, NY Dolls. Been there, years ago. Gonna tear it down? Which is worse? Whatever, Dolls is more fun!

Verdad 5 years, 3 months ago

Why don't you actually research before posting?

The Mosque

While a mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit. Neither Park51 nor the mosque, which hasn’t been named yet, will tolerate any kind of illegal or un-American activity or rhetoric. The final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined, but it will only represent a small portion of the final structure.

Why do people insist on posting talking points?

Richard Payton 5 years, 3 months ago

Miss USA Rima Fakih is against the plan for the mosque being built two blocks away from ground zero. Yet, if it is built maybe she will attend church services and then enter the Stripper 101 pole dancing competition in which she won in Michigan in 2007.

BorderRuffian 5 years, 3 months ago

You might notice that it is emblemic of that group to build mosques or other monuments over their greatest acheivements. Take a look at the Great Temple in Jerusalem, for instance.

TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 3 months ago

If you are referring to the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Old Jerusalem then you are absolutely.......wrong. No achievement by Islam here until they recaptured Jerusalem from the Crusaders in the 11th century...well after the mosque was built in the 8th century. Jerusalem just happens to be a place thats (gasp) a holy site to more than one religion. You should really fact check the crap you are spoonfed before you vomit it back up on forums. It really makes you look ignorant and easily led.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

There's already a mosque less than 4 blocks away from "Ground Zero". A whole 686 feet further away than the proposed community center. Wow.

How come that mosque doesn't bother you??

And that other mosque has been there for years, peacefully operating with the neighborhood Muslims praying there regularly...with no complaints from the other neighbors and no fuss in the neighborhood.

How come that mosque doesn't bother you??

The only two reasons I can see?

1) YOU didn't know about it.
2) The reason the new community center is being built is because the existing mosque has become too small to handle its congregation anymore.

So...knowing you want to rethink your "build it somewhere else" attitude?

Or are you now going to call for the other mosque to be moved, too? Even though the people who actually live in the neighborhood are comfortable with it? Even though it serves many of the people living in their own neighborhood?

Abdu Omar 5 years, 3 months ago

Seems to me that since it isn't ON the Ground Zero site and they have owned that property for a while, it is up to them. It is their land. Islam didn't blow the towers down, people did and they were certainly NOT like the Muslims here in Lawrence - peaceable and part of the community. they are the same in New York.

skinny 5 years, 3 months ago

How about showing some images of the beatings, stoning and tortured that are committed by those who followed Islamic law?

Let them build the mosque someplace else!

Not at ground zero!

junctioncitygal 5 years, 3 months ago

How about the pictures of Christian's in the crusades? Or the Inquisition? I could go on. Each religion has it's atrocities.

Josh Brumm 5 years, 3 months ago

Before you get ahead of yourself at how barbaric they are compared to us, I have 3 words for you:

Abu Ghraib prison.

booyalab 5 years, 3 months ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall anyone getting beheaded at Abu Ghraib.

Josh Brumm 5 years, 3 months ago

You're right. The US Military in an effort to spread democracy and freedom to the region and win the hearts and minds of a downtrodden populace merely tortured people at Abu Ghraib. And thank God for that! If they had actually beheaded someone, then we would have been hypocrites! Good thing we stopped at torture! That really helped our cause!

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

Oh yeah. Since I'd much rather be tortured for months/years than killed, I'd be soooo grateful to my torturers and find them soooo merciful I'd immediately convert to Christianity and beg to be sent to Guantanamo for more.

ivalueamerica 5 years, 3 months ago

Can you show any photos of the Peaceful law abiding AMERICANS you are trying to deny the right to worship on their own property participating in anything like that? Before you answer, remember that some of the members of that Mosque are currently serving in our armed forces, protecting the rights of the US, including freedom of religion.

It seems as they are risking their lives protecting liberty, you are trying to take it away.

I think a picture of you ripping up the Constitution would be an accurate image right now.

50YearResident 5 years, 3 months ago

What religion are you, in any, ivalueamerica?

ivalueamerica 5 years, 3 months ago

I have mentioned many times I am a Christian.

However, I do not feel I have the right to force others to live my life.

I hail unto Cesar that which is Cesar and unto God that which is God´s.

Further, the LAST thing I want is the government deciding to define my faith and legislate my faith as some sort of standard because they have no business doing so. In fact, I think it would cheapen Christianity to legislate it, because it would become an obligation, not a privelage and a choice.

And I live in American and support and uphold the Constitution, and will not spit on it just because I am angry. I think the standard for shredding the Constitution should be much higher than knee jerk anger.

mbulicz 5 years, 3 months ago

If you want some seriously gruesome, misogynistic, misanthropic, xenophobic, violent, and morally ambiguous garbage, I highly reccommend the Old Testament. It's like the Scarface of dogma.

promitida 5 years, 3 months ago

I cannot believe how stupid people are. Of course they should be able to build it! The towers were not brought down in the name of what Islam really is about. It was brought down by radicals. Plenty of people of all religions have killed in the name if their god. This isn't hard to understand. Grow up people!

Scott Drummond 5 years, 3 months ago

Not really. You anti-democracy right wingers don't want to abide by the local zoning authorities in Vermont either.

terrapin2 5 years, 3 months ago

It's completely different. Those people have not said anything about hating Christianity they just don't want a bright 24 foot cross beaming at them at night. Clearly you and others are saying you hate and fear a particular religion and therefore don't want them learning to cook, or playing basketball, or praying in a building on land they have owned for a very long time. Why do you hate the constitution so much? It won't even be visible from the site of the 9/11 attacks at all. You can, however see a strip club and various other businesses that are much more unseemly than a community center. It is not a Mosque. A mosque is a place solely for the place of worship alone. It is a community center with one floor dedicated to worship and open to people of any faith. There are other small mosques in NYC that have operated peacefully since the early 70's, why aren't you protesting there? Just because it's a couple blocks away from the towers? A lot of Muslims died that day too you know. Why does it scare you so much? I live in America where people have died over and over to protect our right to worship as we see fit. Take that away and you might as well move somewhere where they tell you what religion you can be. People like you scare me and hurt America.

whynaut 5 years, 3 months ago

Objection. Leading.

Seriously, Fox news is so bad. It would be hilarious if so many didn't use it as a news source.

whynaut 5 years, 3 months ago

And sure, the lady should be able to have her cross, as long as it doesn't turn into a situation like

average 5 years, 3 months ago

Seeing that there is already a mosque closer to Ground Zero than the proposed cultural center, this is the most absurd thing this year.

grammaddy 5 years, 3 months ago

Of course they should build it. Cordoba Institute has worked very hard to show people that all Muslms are not radicals like the ones who flew into the twin towers any more than all Christians are like Fred Phelps.They own the property and can build whatever they like on it. And Freedom of worship is a God-given right in this country. If we let fear of "all things Islam" get the best of us, the terrorists win.

grammaddy 5 years, 3 months ago

Not impressed. A fox news clip posted on Youtube.Now there's credibility!

terrapin2 5 years, 3 months ago

Um, saying "it's off their site" makes it no more credible.

Audrey Goebel-Hall 5 years, 3 months ago

For the record, you would probably consider me liberal, left-wing, etc., etc. That being said, I support both the rights of the people wanting to build the Islamic cultural center and the couple in Vermont who wish to keep their cross.

The first amendment, along with the rest of our constitution, is there to protect the rights of the minority. It protects the things that no one likes, not the things on which we agree. That means it protects the 24 foot cross and the Islamic cultural center near Ground Zero.

terrapin2 5 years, 3 months ago

They are not taking away their right to worship. They can have a cross, they can and are keeping the chapel. Zoning says you can't have a 24 foot lit cross that shines too brightly in people's windows at night. Has nothing to do with anyone fearing or hating Christianity even though the very nervous and somewhat incoherent woman said so. Just 'cause she said "we think it might have something to do with hating Christianity" does not make it so. Nothing to do with this argument at all, but nice try. See my reply to your 6:56 post and tell me what you think of that. Again, people like you hurt America.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

I think that YOU wouldn't want glaring lights shining in your windows 24-7 either. This isn't about a's about horribly bright lighting. Which, last time I looked, wasn't protected by the Constitution.

Cait McKnelly 5 years, 3 months ago

I am not afraid and you cannot make me afraid, Tom. Ideology is not identity and reason isn't treason. I will continue to repeat those things until it gets through your pointy little Neanderthal head. Some day, I pray that I can drag you into the intelligence of the age of Western Civilization and the Era of Enlightenment.

Flap Doodle 5 years, 3 months ago

"They own the property..." Correction, they own half of the land that they want to build on. “Not so fast. The developers of the controversial mosque proposed near Ground Zero own only half the site where they want to construct the $100 million building, The Post has learned. One of the two buildings on Park Place is owned by Con Edison, even though Soho Properties told officials and the public that it owns the entire parcel. And any potential sale by Con Ed faces a review by the state Public Service Commission..”. Read more:

notajayhawk 5 years, 3 months ago

"Do you support the building of a mosque and Islamic cultural center a few blocks from the site of ground zero in New York City?"

Let us rephrase that:

Do you support yet another poll/story/editorial about the dead-horse issue of building a mosque and Islamic cultural center a few blocks from the site of ground zero in New York City, spawning yet another 200-300 comment thread saying nothing that wasn't already said in the last 50 polls/stories/editorials?

mbulicz 5 years, 3 months ago

This person needs to be hired to edit the LJW. Stat.

true_patriot 5 years, 3 months ago

Nice one Journal World - it's not a mosque (like the ones a couple blocks away), it's basically a YMCA with a small prayer room on the premises. What a paragon of journalism ...

I wonder how the Muslims serving in our armed forces and who lost family members in 9-11 feel about this irrational stoking of hate and prejudice?

BigDog 5 years, 3 months ago

I would assume they would feel much like most Christian do (who are also serving in our armed forces)....when reading much of the anti-Christian messages spewed on the blog regularly.

true_patriot 5 years, 3 months ago

Somehow I doubt most people in NYC or most folks serving in our armed forces read the comments in this local small newspaper website (aka "the blog") .

The point is that by making Islam the enemy rather than the radical fringe element you are playing right into the hands of the terrorists - they WANT this to be a Crusade type conflict - that's what they feed and recruit on. Muslims serve to protect our country and died on 9-11 right along with everyone else - to try to wholesale deploy this kind of counter-productive fearmongering erodes the principles this country was founded on.

Verdad 5 years, 3 months ago

The Mosque

While a mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit. Neither Park51 nor the mosque, which hasn’t been named yet, will tolerate any kind of illegal or un-American activity or rhetoric. The final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined, but it will only represent a small portion of the final structure.

grammaddy 5 years, 3 months ago

So, you have interviewed him personally and can now speak for him? More fear-mongering from the Fear right.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

You want to point us to where the Imam says he's pleased with the outrage? Or to his so-called actions that demonstrate he's please with the outrage?

I'd already read the op-ed column in the NY Times provided by appleaday. Clicked on links, even. Darned if I can find what you found.

So how about directly pointing it out to the rest of us? Or providing the quotes that you think prove your claim?

Liberty275 5 years, 3 months ago

I voted "yes" in support of the first amendment, but in reality, I don't care what they do in new york.

bd 5 years, 3 months ago

You all need to research what "cordoba" means to all islamic people! It is a true eye opener!

Tea anyone!

Mari Aubuchon 5 years, 3 months ago

Cordoba in modern Spain has been inhabited since the days of the Neanderthals. It was a province of Rome until its fall in the 500s when it became part of the Byzantine Empire and, then, the Germanic Visigothic Kingdom. In 711, it was taken by the Umayyad Caliphate who later made it their capital.

During the 10th and 11th centuries, Cordoba flowered as a cultural, philosophical,.scientific, and financial center. The library in Cordoba was the greatest of its time, containing a million volumes. Muslims, Christians, and Jews lived in relative harmony. The degree of religious tolerance under the caliphate may be a subject of controversy but the fact remains that freedom of worship did exist and educational and economic opportunities were available to free* members of all three religions. Cordoba certainly played a pivotal role in Jewish life in the Middle Ages when religious persecution was rampant throughout much of the rest of Europe.

Cordoba declined in importance after the invasion by the Berbers and its later conquest during the Spanish Reconquista. Its population fell to 20,00 by the end of the Renaissance but has recovered in the past century. The historic center of the city is World Heritage Site.

  • In any discussion of European history, it must be remembered that slavery existed throughout the continent during the Middle Ages and slaves made up nearly 20% of the population.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

"Means to all Islamic people"?

ALL Islamic people????????

Gimme a frickin' break. There isn't anything about any religion that means the same thing to ALL believers of any particular religion. That even includes what they believe God is.

It's YOU that needs to truly open your eyes.

yankeevet 5 years, 3 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

jimmyjms 5 years, 3 months ago

yankeevet is un-American, anti-American, and doesn't understand the Constitution of the country he pretends to love.

Dim, de dum dum.

Abdu Omar 5 years, 3 months ago

I am sure you would want to go down with the ship! You are most welcome, yank!

sciencegeek 5 years, 3 months ago

I'm torn on this issue. They have the right to build the Islamic center there, and there is merit in trying to mend fences. At the same time, there is a history of mosques being built on captured ground as a way of rubbing in their victory. The 9-11 bombings only happened 9 years ago, so it is understandable that the wounds are still raw. A Muslim cleric should understand that healing takes time; Shia and Sunni factions of Islam are still embroiled in hatred that goes back centuries.

Rational or not, the bombers used Islam as justification for their actions. It would have been much better for all concerned if the planners had shown some sensitivity, and considered the feelings of the victims of the bombings. Their plans may have been legal, but, if they truly want to promote understanding, their decision wasn't a wise one.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

Let's see. They already have a mosque there a block and a half away. It's been there for years, and has become too small for its congregation (you know...the American Muslims living in the neighborhood who worship there). So they want to build a community center that includes a larger mosque. Just like a Christian congregation in Kansas might want to do.

And your response is that THEY should be "sensitive" to the feelings of people who don''t even live there???

I'm not just talking about being "sensitive" to the "9/11 families" - not all of whom are against this either. I'm talking about "these people" somehow needing to be "sensitive" to the feelings of people in, say, Lawrence, KS. People who, if they're honest, will admit that they rarely give a thought to 9/11 anymore unless it's brought up.

But I've got a better idea. Why don't WE be sensitive to the needs and desires of the people who actually LIVE in the neighborhood??? The ones who want a community center with a larger mosque?

After all, WE didn't even know there was already a mosque there. And WE didn't know there were gambling parlors and "gentlemen's clubs" and prostitutes there, either. that we do know? WE sure as heck still aren't protesting about THOSE things being right there at "sacred ground" are we?

In New York City, with over 8 million residents, a whole 700 people showed up...on both sides protest. That ought to tell you something. And what it ought to tell you is that it's none of our business and we're being punked into thinking it is.

Verdad 5 years, 3 months ago

The Mosque

While a mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit. Neither Park51 nor the mosque, which hasn’t been named yet, will tolerate any kind of illegal or un-American activity or rhetoric. The final size and location of the mosque have yet to be determined, but it will only represent a small portion of the final structure.

BigDog 5 years, 3 months ago

This is tough issue because there is freedom of religion in this country and the property is zoned propoerly for a mosque/community center to be built there. I can also understand the feeling of those in New York area who lost family/friends/co-workers in the September 11th attacks, which claims are were done in the name of their religion.

I believe this issue has only gotten bigger because of the poor handling of the controvery by those wanting to build the mosque/community center. They stated that they want to build it as a way to build greater understanding of their religion and peace. Then they have refused to meet with the Governor, Mayor of New York or others to attempt to work through some of the controvery. It makes an appearance to those opposed to it that you are not wanting to understand their position on this issue. It also doesn't give them the opportunity to try to understand their side of the issue either.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

No. This issue exists because certain right-wingers recently wanted to make it an issue. Back in December 2009 the project was supported by conservatives. And still is by many. Had this not been latched onto and exaggerated earlier this month, none of us would have known or cared. Just like we didn't know or care there's already a mosque within 4 blocks of "Ground Zero".

We're been punked into creating a mountain out of a hole in the ground.

boltzmann 5 years, 3 months ago

I think the question is ill-formed.

Do I support the building of this particular mosque in its planned location?

Not being Muslim, I really have no skin in the game, so I'm neutral as to whether it should be built or not. I really don't care one way or the other.

Do I support the right of the owners to build the mosque in its current planned location?

Yes, as long as it complies with the same local zoning requirements as other churches, then the 1st amendment would apply and they have the right to build it.

salad 5 years, 3 months ago

I wonder if ther'd be even a blip on the radar if a conservative christian church wanted to build a center two blocks away from the OKC bombing site? Probably not, cause home-grown christian terrorists are OK.

BigDog 5 years, 3 months ago

salad ..... a very poor comparison. Timothy McVeigh was baptized Catholic but was agnostic throughout his adult life and was not a "conservative Christian type".

His motoviation for the Oklahoma City bombing had nothing to do with religion. His crazy ass motivation had to do with his views of the US government including the ATFs handling of the Waco standoff and similar situations.

salad 5 years, 3 months ago

wrong Bigdog, it's an excellent comparison. Afterall, the islamic terrorists biggest issue is with our govt. too. McVey attended "militia" training camps where right-wing "god is on our side" christianity is preached. By your own addmission, McVey was upset about how the govt. treated another nut-job-crazy christian cult, who were stockpiling military weapons, abusing women, and oppressing its members.....just like the islamic terrorstist like to do. It's a PERFECT comparison, you just don't like it.

notajayhawk 5 years, 3 months ago

Wrong, salad, it's an assinine comparison, since the 9/11 terrorists were (misguided as their thinking was) nominally acting in the name of their religion and specifically because of their religious beliefs, McVeigh was not.

[Guess I was right this morning about rehashing the same old garbage on yet another thread ... ]

jimmyjms 5 years, 3 months ago

Well, Tom, I was just thinking that 70% of Americans support letting the Bush tax cuts expire:

and nearly that many oppose the war in Afghanistan:

I guess my point was that in a democracy, we don't live by majority rule in every instance.

You are aware that there are currently mosques in the same general vicinity, as well as houses of worship of other religions, as well as strip clubs, gay clubs, etc.?

And that there is currently a mosque in the Pentagon? The actual site of the attacks of 9/11?

And that this mosque made its intentions known in 2009?

I guess I just don't see any logic in your position. As usual.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

So you're saying that they shouldn't be allowed to build a community center with a larger mosque in it...which they need because the existing mosque (a block and a half away and which has been there for years) is too small for its congregation...a congregation made up of neighborhood American Muslims...why?

Seriously. WHY should they not build a larger space for their congregation? Which happens to be in that particular part of Lower Manhattan. What is "insensitive" about meeting the needs of the people who actually live in that neighborhood???

bd 5 years, 3 months ago

Cordoba refers to the Great Mosque of Cordoba Spain which was built as a monument to the conquest of Spain by the muslims/islamists centuries ago who for a period in history were able to turn Spain into an islamic nation. And it is meant to be a symbol of their intent to conquer America for Islam when they name their Ground Zero mosque by that same name...all the muslims of the world will be rejoicing (as so many of them did when they saw photos of 9-11 ) they did not weep, they cheered because they saw it as a victory and they will see their ground zero mosque named Cordoba as another great victory! Wake up America!

misseve 5 years, 3 months ago

That "Mosque" has been converted back to the Christian faith and has been for a long time SOOO, yeah not a lot of water being held there... Moving on.

overthemoon 5 years, 3 months ago

BS. The Mosque at Cordoba was built after the Islams had been in the region for over 200 years. They built it after banishing a rival Muslim faction. The library there was open to scholars of all faiths, and the relations with the neighboring christian church were amicable. Until the Crusaders came and slaughtered the muslims and drove them out of Iberia.

50YearResident 5 years, 3 months ago

Are there any Muslims posting on this subject that will openly admit that they are Muslim? I would like to hear from several Muslims about this subject to get both sides of this story.

jimmyjms 5 years, 3 months ago

Hmmm. I'd like to hear from any Christians who oppose the mosque (and will openly admit that they're Christians). Please include a cogent argument supporting your position.

50YearResident 5 years, 3 months ago

A $100 Million Dollar Mosque/Caltural Center will be to Muslims of the World as the Statue of Liberty is to Americans. A Symbol! It will draw Muslims from the entire globe to view and visit it. Where is this $100 million comming from? Who is actually funding this overly extravagant building and why?

Stuart Evans 5 years, 3 months ago

I heard a report that they only had less than $20k raised for it anyway. much ado about nothing perhaps.

Stuart Evans 5 years, 3 months ago

I imagine the controversy is helping fan some donations though. maybe some nice christian folks should put up more money and buy it out from under Rauf.

overthemoon 5 years, 3 months ago

1 million to renovate a 15 story building in NYC is pocket change.

Grundoon Luna 5 years, 3 months ago

It is being funded by the Saudi Prince affectionately know to the Bush family as Bandar Bush. You know the guy, he is close friends with the Bush family, holding hands with Bush while visiting the Crawford Ranch during that fiasco of a presidencey, Bandar's had Thanksgiving dinners in the White House, and he's one of the ownera of Faux News. And that's the hilarious part. Faux was all over this yesterday saying how it is funded with terrorist dollars - though never naming the "terrorist" funding the project because it one of their owners!!! How complete disingenuous can a network be!?! Using Faux logic that means . . . . wait for it. . . . . Faux news is funded with terrorist dolars!!!! I just doesn't get any better than this. ROFLMAO!!!!

Stuart Evans 5 years, 3 months ago

we need to repeal tax exempt status on all religious organizations. That should bring down the grand scale of this thing.

jafs 5 years, 3 months ago

That's an interesting idea - I haven't heard the rationale for churches being tax-exempt.


beatrice 5 years, 3 months ago

Why not ask the real question -- Do you support the building of a mosque anywhere in America?

adagio 5 years, 3 months ago

I agree with Liberty_One. Well said.

50YearResident 5 years, 3 months ago

Well, why not build it in a Muslim Majority Country where it could bring more non-Muslins into the religion of Islam?

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

Because it's serving the Muslim residents of Lower Manhattan. Serving the congregation that has outgrown their neighborhood mosque a block and a half away from the new site.

Jeez Louise, 50. Get a clue. No...get a grip. Do you seriously want to tell us there should be no Christian outreach in non-Christian countries? That Christian churches should only be built in Christian Majority Countries...where they could bring more non-Christians into the religion of Christianity?

Didn't think so.

jonas_opines 5 years, 3 months ago

I wonder how the poll would break down if they actually made this a nuanced question.

A) I support them building the mosque at present location B) They should have the right to build it, but I think it's a bad idea at present location C) They should have no right to build it there.

I suppose that wouldn't be quite as divisive, though. . . . .

overthemoon 5 years, 3 months ago

In our ridiculous fighting over this very tiny issue, we are proving that we are the worst of everything our enemies say we are.

Way to go! Lets just keep proving ourselves to be small minded bigots, hypocrites, and illiterate idiots.

Kyle Neuer 5 years, 3 months ago

If it outrages Roger Ailes and Sean Hannity, build it. Hell, build two of 'em. There's already a mosque two blocks further out and a large Muslim presence in the neighborhood.

Johnna Feugate 5 years, 3 months ago

Freedom of Religion! Why is this even a question?!? If this was a Christian, Cathothic, Baptist, ect church going up, would there be controversy?

Ralph Vickers 5 years, 3 months ago

there must be 422 muslims in Lawrence. That "Mosque" is a shrine to themselves , saying "We bombed the world trade center, now we want to praise ourselves by building this mosque shrine to ourselves". WAKE UP AMERICA!!

jimmyjms 5 years, 3 months ago

Wow. So by your (incredibly intelligent) logic, all 1.5 billion Muslims are complicit in 9/11?

That sucks, because by extension, all Christians must similarly be held accountable for the actions of Tim McVeigh, Scott Roeder, et. al.

Wake up 'Merica, indeed.

Jimo 5 years, 3 months ago

As one libertarian put it:

It really does boil down to an issue not just of religious freedom but also a means of putting into practice the very American values which Al Qaeda seeks to deny. A mosque in NYC, near to the site of 9-11, is not a “monument to the attackers” but actually a repudiation of the Al Qaeda ideology. What they want is to make Muslim Americans reject American identity and follow their call to jihad – explicitly, as Anwar al Awlaki has repeatedly stated, and even succeeded (ref the cases of Fort Hood and Times Square). An American mosque, built for American Muslims, is literally the antithesis of what the enemy most desires.

The bigotry unleashed by this whole affair plays perfectly into our enemies’ hands. Islamic radicals are seizing on protests as a propaganda opportunity and are stepping up anti-U.S. chatter and threats on their websites. Maybe we can ask the moderate Muslims for help ... if we can stop pissing on them long enough. Hmmmm....undermining U.S. national security. A few years back this would have been called treason. Now it's just called wingnut political strategy.

50YearResident 5 years, 3 months ago

So you agree that Islamic Radicals are our enemies? And you think the non radical muslims will openly disagree with the radical muslims? Dream is not going to happen.

Jimo 5 years, 3 months ago

Happens daily around the world, my friend. Heck, the large majority of Muslims are "non radical" and the majority even live in secular countries. Want to be a "Islamic Radical" in Syria or Turkey or Egypt or Tunisia or Algeria or Indonesia or Bangladesh, etc. etc and you'll end up in jail if not dead.

Stop watching the Saudi-funded Fox version of events.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

And you 'know'

As Jimo says, it happens around the world on a daily basis. The fact that YOU aren't aware of it doesn't mean it's not happening.

jafs 5 years, 3 months ago

This imam has specifically denounced terrorism, and worked with President Bush on anti-terrorism.

jimmyjms 5 years, 3 months ago

The Wall St. Journal, that paragon of Tom Shewmon's imaginary "Left-wing media conspiracy" reports that fanatical jihadists are using this stupidity to enflame anti-American sentiment and to try and recruit more terrorists. Gee, who could have seen that coming?

Kent Fisher 5 years, 3 months ago

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

puddleglum 5 years, 3 months ago

who cares? it's in New York city-home of all the dirtiest scumbag-slimeballs of the world.

its like asking if anybody cares if someone built an open sewer near the university of missouri campus....whuzz the difference?

jafs 5 years, 3 months ago

Have you ever been to NYC?

It's one of the greatest cities in the world.

puddleglum 5 years, 3 months ago

what exactly makes it so great?

yes, I have been there. Once in the mid-70's (before the great cleanup of the 80s) Once in 1989 and a whole bunch of times in the 90's.

still full of greedy, low-down scumbag people.

jimmyjms 5 years, 3 months ago

"Hi! I'm an ignorant redneck that hates everything that isn't exactly like me, and I'm afraid of new places or different people. Lived here my whole life, don't know very much and I'm aiming to keep it that way."

The puddleglum to english translation.

puddleglum 5 years, 3 months ago

puddleglum to jimmyjms translation:

your crappy syntax says it all: I have much more education than you, I am way more prettier than you. I like going abroad and love indulging in others' cultures. I am not afraid of anything. Everyone is different from me, because nobody is me. I have not lived here my whole life, but what difference does that make? New York City is full of dirtballs, fact. The New Yorker's way of life includes urinating all over yourself, and ripping anybody off-as long as you can get away with it. Nothing useful has ever come from New York City. I loved riding the checker cab medallion system. Nice art inside of the museums. Architecture is thrilling. But the people suck. Why don't you go there and find out for yourself?

persevering_gal 5 years, 3 months ago

I don't really care. It's the opening date that bothers me. As a Christian, I respect all religions, and as an American, I believe in religious freedom.

usmcvet 5 years, 3 months ago

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Jeremiah Jefferson 5 years, 3 months ago

Since we own Iraq now, maybe we should put a statue of Jesus with his foot in Muhammads rear end in downtown Baghdad... I don't see what the big deal is with that. Iraq is a democracy now right? Consider it free speech and freedom of religion....

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

Do they have the right to build it; is it legal? Completely. Is it in good taste, is it appropriate? Completely not.

From all the polls I've seen a majority (and not a small one) of Americans are against this; and unfortunately (I emphasize that word) a small minority of those against it would probably take the law into their own hands. I would suggest there is also a safety issue here. As an American, I don't point this out with any degree of pride; but some shame...(that's bowing to the level of heartless, inhumane terrorists) nevertheless it should come into consideration.

Kendall Simmons 5 years, 3 months ago

Hel-lo. The NYC neighborhood residents want this community center built. They've already got a mosque a block and a half away that's been outgrown. A mosque that hasn't troubled anyone who actually lives there.

This is a neighborhood issue, like it or not. The unscientifically polled opinion of "a majority of Americans" is irrelevant!!! I mean, do you seriously think we should make decisions about, saying, building a church in Lawrence because of the personal opinions of people in NYC???

And...if the community center is at jeopardy of violence, then it's most likely going to be from "Christian" terrorists. Fired up by irresponsible politicians and media hogs who will then deny any responsibility themselves.

But...should fear of potential violence resulting from exercising your Constitutional rights keep you from actually exercising them? Trust me. There are a whole lot of us who will tell you "NO!!" Otherwise we would still be second-rate citizens without, for example, the right to vote.

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

This event went well beyond New York City and Washington D.C. I sincerely doubt; whatever you may say, that all the folks in that neighborhood are just fine with this building. At best it might be 50/50 but I refuse to believe it goes above that.

Let me your mind there are just as many "Christian" terrorists if not more, then there are muslims. Would that be the fruit punch flavored kool-aid or grape?

verity 5 years, 3 months ago

". . . but I refuse to believe . . ."

ivalueamerica 5 years, 3 months ago

Al Quada no more speaks for Islam than Phred Phelps or Lambs of Christ speak for Christianity, this is a false issue.

The land is already in use for Muslim worship, it is private land, it is NOT on ground zero, there is a Mosque closer to the site, the people had nothing to do with 9-11 and condomned it and some of the are fighting for our military as we speak.

It takes a special level of ignorance, fear and hate for Americans to destroy American freedoms in the name of Al Quada.

ivalueamerica 5 years, 3 months ago

You really embarass yourself with your comments. This case was NOT an Islamic attack, it was an individual attack, this case was NOT perpetrated by anyone involved in the New York Mosque.

You failed to compare this case with, for example, the Christian soldier who killed a gay man in his sleep in Georgia, or the Christian Soldiers guilty of torture in Abu Girad.

You can continue to excuse your desire to destroy the US Constitution in the name of Al Quada, but the fact remains, it is what you are advocating.

50YearResident 5 years, 3 months ago

Exactually my point! This was an act of a moderate Muslin. Moderate Muslims fighting for America. It has nothing to do with the Constitution.

ivalueamerica 5 years, 3 months ago

I realize you feel justified in your biggotry, but you are promoting bigotry, nothing more an that is a mental illness, not a political belief.

neotect2010 5 years, 3 months ago

Has anyone counted the number of Christian churches located in Nagasaki or Hiroshima? Just something to further the debate.

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

Huh? Are you saying they were attacked by a "Christian" nation? We'd need to establish that first. (Plenty zealously argue that we are not, nor have we ever been a Christian nation; which would void your statement.)

Now I don't doubt Christian missions opened in those areas to provide aid after the bombings....

Boosh 5 years, 3 months ago

I heard the building was being funded by a partner of a fear mongering "news" organization.

Richard Heckler 5 years, 3 months ago

Unless the Mosque is in violation of local building codes there is no reason why it should not be built in that location.

It is a repub distraction because repubs destroyed our economy for the second time in 30 years.......quite a remarkable achievement.

Repubs are hoping everyone hates muslims as they do.....they and their narrow minded religious viewpoints. AND these same right to lifers want to keep killing for oil control.

I've yet to meet a hateful Muslim person. Hateful republicans and a few others are not hard to find or experience.

CHKNLTL 5 years, 3 months ago

that's right. the repubs can only control by using fear. the fear object's face was bin laden, but now most of the free world knows he's dead. (dialysis doesn't work in the caves where no power exists!)

None of my Muslims friends are hateful in the least :)

Richard Heckler 5 years, 3 months ago

Just because Bush and Cheney said Muslims are bad people does not make them so.

NOT ONE of the 9/11/01 attackers were from Iraq,Iran or Afghanistan. Most were from Saudi Arabia as was the funding. Yet Bush/Cheney adores the Saudi leadership aka as big time Wall Street investors.

Elected officials may well be among the most uninformed sources on the planet. Their strong points seem to be distracting voters from the things that matter such as: New USA industry New Jobs IMPROVED Medicare Insurance for ALL Uninformed elected officials continuing tax breaks for the upper 1% ASSUMING they will create new industry and jobs for america. Politicians have no clue...why be like them? Meanwhile the upper middle class,middle class and the poor pay higher taxes to support the upper 1%. *Let's focus our energy on all of the above in hopes of not getting duped any longer.

Is ignorance bliss?

CHKNLTL 5 years, 3 months ago

Let's be neutral on all sides of everything and put up a mosque, a memorial to the victims wall, a holocaust memorial, a tribute statue personifying hitler's suicide, a big bottle of pills statue for Anna Nicole and Heath Ledger, and a big freakin NA symbol. Pro and Con statue center at ground zero.....any groups I forgot? Oh, you need a tribute to the death of our constitution....and the middle class....and the american dream....a statue for the dominance of health care...about tops it

(this comment is sarcastic, and meant to highlight the media's needless inflammation of emotions surrounding the subject)

Richard Payton 5 years, 3 months ago

Miss USA is a Muslim and has spoke out against building this Mosque near ground zero. She like I believe in freedom of religion but oppose this due to the human sacrfice on 9/11. No Muslim's live in the old burlington coat factory building or near this proposed Mosque.

leapinlemur 5 years, 3 months ago

"Support" would not be the correct word for me. I certainly acknowledge their right to do so, perhaps unlike some self-proclaimed defenders of the Constitution, but think it's inadvisable in about every sense unless the point is to generate additional conflict... and, really, how can it not be? Having said that, I reserve my 1st Amendment right to refer to those involved as beligerent a*^holes.

Boy, this sounds an awful lot like Westboro Baptist and the funeral protests. Do they have the right? I guess so, although their case is far less clear cut (IMHO) than the would-be mosque builders. Do I respect them in any way for exercising that right? Hell no!

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

Let's make this local folks (even though it was a long, long, long time ago...)

Why do we not have any monunments to Quantrill and his band? Were they really so bad? Jayhawkers did horrible things to Ruffians across the state lines, and Ruffians responded in kind.

Let's tear down 'the flame" sculpture in front of City Hall and put up a statue of Quantrill.

Anyone have a problem with that?

TheYetiSpeaks 5 years, 3 months ago

Not even close to the same....Love the hyperbole, though.

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

I don't think you can dismiss it quite that easily. The cause is obviously different, but we're still talking two groups of people who very passionately thought they were right. Quantrill was probably a hero across the state lines, he finally gave those Lawrence free-staters what they had coming to them for a long, long time. Yes, innocent lives were lost, but a point was made. But the Kansans at that time needed to remember that Quantrill didn't litterally speak for the whole state of Missouri, not even 100% of the ruffians. We should honor him and the lives of his men that were lost that day. You'd have a hard time making a case that his attack was COMPLETELY unprovoked.

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

I'll point out one other thing..I do want to be helpful.

I won't say you are using the word "hyperbole" incorrectly; it's just not quite as accurate as it could be. I suggest you consult an on-line dictionary and look up the word sat-ire.

After looking that up could rephrase the comment... " the satire though."

...and I'd say thank you. 97.89% of my posts use satire and/or sarcasm. Learn something new every day, right?

drum1984 5 years, 3 months ago

Ah conservative hypocrites. They love to wrap themselves in the constitution but, freedom of religion, screw that. Not if someone is going to build an Islamic Community Center in the hallowed grounds of an old burlington coat factory in Manhattan. Nevermind the dozens of muslims killed on 9/11. Nevermind the fact that there is a mosque at the Pentagon with no issues. Nevermind that there is another mosque already in the same vicinity as "Ground Zero." Nevermind that all muslims (just as also christians or all jews) are not responsible for the actions of some radical organization claiming ties to the faith. When did so many people in this country become so ignorant.

mr_right_wing 5 years, 3 months ago

That kind of finger pointing is a little too easy. When I posted this response the poll was still fairly close, but the "no"s were ahead. This is the liberal bastion of a rather conservative state. Some of your liberal friends have crossed over and voted "no". In a liberal town such as Lawrence (if we go by your partisan reasoning) the 'yes' (i.e. liberal) votes should have it overwhelmingly.

Sorry my friend, you can't simply label this as a conservative (BAD!!) vs. liberal (GOOD!!) situation. It is a much more complex human emotion (yes, some times irrational) situation.

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