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Does Lawrence need to change its anti-discrimination law to protect people who consider themselves cross dressers and others who consider themselves transgender?

Response Percent Votes
No.
 
61% 850
Yes.
 
32% 446
Not sure.
 
6% 88
Total 1384

Comments

Pat Long 5 years, 4 months ago

A crime against a person is just that. No other qualifications are needed.

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viewfromahill 5 years, 4 months ago

"... cross dressers and others who consider themselves transgender?"

Angry, trance-gender dressers should just opt for soothing earth tones.

(IMHO)

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Maxwell Butterfield 5 years, 4 months ago

I find it so sad that more people have answered 'No' than 'Yes'. What's happened to the sense of acceptance and care that I've loved about Lawrence for so long? I pray that these polls are not true gauges of the public opinion.

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Hawkman_021 5 years, 4 months ago

I just wonder where the "I dont really care" also is there a story behind this poll so I can read about it before I give my answer

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Hoots 5 years, 4 months ago

Sorry flclhack...violated is violated. Why should someone receive special attention from the courts because they live a certain way, look a certain way, or behave a certain way. Any citizen that's attacked, wronged, or mistreated deserves the same respect. This country was not founded on creating special classes of citizens. I don't like the idea that someone who cross dresses, likes the same sex, has purple hair, or whatever is going to get more justice than I would. I think that's what the people in the poll are saying. This used to be a country but now we are just a bunch of fractured special interest groups.

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Ralph Reed 5 years, 4 months ago

bennyoats and Max -- take a look at the number of votes and then the number of comments -- 390 and 7. That should give you an idea how people might try and skew the stats. That's why you can't trust online stats - there's no control.

Hoots, a question for you. Your 2107 implies you consider people citizens regardless of their lifestyles, beliefs, race, and so on, and so on. Unfortunately, many in this country, and on this forum, don't consider people citizens unless they are "just like them." (Even people in Linwood.)

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Maxwell Butterfield 5 years, 4 months ago

Hoots, I don't think you understand exactly what all this means.

With all the current laws in place now, your employer couldn't fire you for being male (I'm only assuming), but they -could- fire you if you wore woman's clothes.

They're not pushing for extra rights for transgenders, but for the same rights that you have.

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Hoots 5 years, 4 months ago

I think if I wore womens cloths to an interview with anyone who was the slightest bit put off by such behavior I wouldn't have to worry about them giving me the boot because they never would have given me the chance anyway and there would be almost no way for me to know why I didn't get X job except for speculation on my own part. I have to tell you I don't want to be someplace where people don't want me anyway. I can think of many work environments that would be very hostile for anyone who cross dressed, was transgender, or even had the slightest appearance of being gay. That is just stark reality and most likely will be for a very long time on most of this planet. You will never be able to legislate small mindedness of of existence. You can't outlaw stupidity no matter how much you want to.

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jayhawker4real 5 years, 4 months ago

I'm no authority on these issues but I do have an observation to share. You can't really legislate change in public opinion, but a change in public opinion can bring about a change in legislation,

What needs to happen is for more cross dressing and transgender people to open up to us more traditonal people. I know my understanding of gay and lesbian people has completely changed in the last 15 years as a result of my aquaintance with so many good souls. Sure there are a few that aren't on my friend list, but they wouldn't be there if they were heteros either.

Fear has departed from me and from most other open minded folks as we have come to know and love these fine persons, and I'm sure the same will be true for those of you who are transgender or cross dressers. Come on out and meet us. We want to give good people a chance to be our friends. And we will want your rights to be protected from the prejudice of narrow minds as well.

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M. Lindeman 5 years, 4 months ago

What I can't figure out is, why is this crap even being discussed? What you do on your time is your business, when you act or behave on my time it becomes my business. The problem I see is, there are some who think they should be allowed to behave anyway they choose anywhere and then expect everyone to tolerate it. Have some respect for yourself and others when your away from your home.

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HermioneElliott 5 years, 4 months ago

I can't remember the last time I saw a man wearing a dress though quite a few women wear jeans and tees. If the business has a dress code then everyone should obey it. Of course, that would mean the women couldn't wear skirts or dresses either, right? See how fast things can get complicated?

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George_Braziller 5 years, 4 months ago

The issue isn't one of cross-dressing. It's about gender itentity. They are completely different.

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jumpin_catfish 5 years, 4 months ago

The issue is that there is no issue. Anything goes in liberal Lawrence so what's the problem? Wife and I saw a guy dressed in an evening gown while out eating one night, we thought he lost a bet, was in some pledge thing or he was a cross dresser. We rolled our eyes said whatever and finished our meal. Live and let live baby.

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HermioneElliott 5 years, 4 months ago

People do have the right to dress however on their own time. I hate it when old people make fun of teens for wearing clothes too tight or too loose. You just look like a stupid hillbilly when you stand there with your mouth open, gawping and then you say something really funny to make your friends laugh. But you can not make a law against making smart alec remarks or making fun of someone. I would love to see the police try to enforce that one!

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George_Braziller 5 years, 4 months ago

Hermione - Let me make a guess. You are somewhere between 12 and 16 years old. It's clear you don't have a clue about the issue. It's not about how people dress "on their own time." It is about gender identity. Completely different things.

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weluvbowling 5 years, 4 months ago

My quesiton is, why is it right for a woman to wear men's clothes (jeans, work boots, slouchy shirt etc) and not get called a "cross dresser" but if a man wears women's clothing he is labeled? In a sense, IMO, this is definitely sex discrimination, BUT, unfortunately because it involves the clothing and the fact of "would they have hired him had he walked in with men's clothes on?" it makes it a "sexual preference/orientation" issue. That's rediculous!

No one knows why people are the way they are...let them be! Treat them equal. When are we all just going to accept sharing this earth with all walks of life?

I use to be one of the first people to call people stereotypical names...I now have a son who is gay (and likes to cross dress) and my daughter has primarily minority (Black, Hispanic, Filipino and bi-racial) friends...just remember, the way you treat people today may come back to bite you in the a** tomorrow!

And Babboy...much bigger issues? Obviously you don't have a friend or loved one who has been abused and/or mistreated by "perfect people". I remember a guy I use to work with years ago, "Jeff" (can't remember his last name)who, not too long ago, was beat so badly that he almost died...why? For cross dressing and standing up for himself. I am sure some may remember this article.

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George_Braziller 5 years, 4 months ago

Once again --- Gender identity and sexual orientation are NOT the same thing. What you wear doesn't define who you are.

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weluvbowling 5 years, 4 months ago

So, George, when people told us growing up that the way you present yourself, in your clothing, actions, words, etc defines who and what you are as a person...so, all of those people were wrong and you are right? I was raised in Lawrence and what you wear (in school anyhow) DOES define who you are and still does today!

It defines if you are "prep", "ghetto", "goth", "emo"...should I go on?

AND in Lawrence, the part of town you lived in also defined who you were even though it was just someone else's opinion of "that part" of town. For instance, I was raised in North Lawrence and when you grew up in North Lawrence in the time that I grew up you were 1. A sand/river rat and 2 poor white trash (to the parents of the kids you went to school with) even though my Mom and her ex Husband made $250k + a yr.

There are a lot of (stupid) things that determine the "labels" that people put on others. And those putting those labels on others are just insecure individuals who have to pick others apart to make them feel better about themselves.

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TacoBob 5 years, 4 months ago

Now this is a kerfuffle of epic proportions.

People making choices to label themselves, and then they want government to protect their choices. Stop the madness! Unreal.

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George_Braziller 5 years, 4 months ago

Weluvbowling - You completely missed the point. Wearing a dress doesn't make you "female" and wearing a suit doesn't make you "male. Gender identity is different than a chunk of sewn cloth.

If your entire identity is based on what you wear to school that day and what people think then that is your choice. Sad, but your choice.

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weluvbowling 5 years, 4 months ago

rolls eyes whatever...so what you are saying then, George, is that if a guy wore a "dress" he would still be looked at as a male and nothing more than a guy in clothing?

In the real world this is not a true statement but I guess it might be in yours.

Have a good day! I'm out!

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Cooky_the_Cook 5 years, 4 months ago

Poll: Does Lawrence need to change its anti-discrimination law to protect people who consider themselves cross dressers and others who consider themselves transgender?

George_Braziller (Anonymous) says…

The issue isn't one of cross-dressing. It's about gender itentity. They are completely different.

Cooky says...

Moron.

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RoeDapple 5 years, 4 months ago

Doesn't Federal and State law already prohibit job discrimination for any reason ? That's how I read them, what did I miss?

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VTHawk 5 years, 4 months ago

Creating new "protected classes" is just a bad idea. It puts the burden on others to prove that they are NOT descriminating (legally, that is what happens), which is really anti-American. Just this last November I had someone tell me that they wouldn't rent me an apartment because of my race, but such it life. It was their apartment, and forcing them to rent it to me accomplishes nothing.

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weluvbowling 5 years, 4 months ago

RoeDapple...NO! They don't! I use to work at the EEOC National Contact Center.

The EEOC is responsible for enforcing laws that make it illegal for an employer/prospective employer to discriminate against a person because their race, color, national origin, sex (including pregnancy), age (40 & older), religion or disability. Your State and Local laws will sometimes enforce the above issues but at this time there is no protection for it in the City of Lawrence or the State office that covers the Lawrence area.

Although, recently, I did read an article where they are trying to get this type of law passed at the State level.

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antikoolaiddrinker 5 years, 4 months ago

Maybe I should feel discriminated against because somebody flipped me off because they were having a bad day. We don't live in a perfect society and life is just tough.

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Kryptenx 5 years, 4 months ago

Kansas... as bigoted as you think.

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mytwocents 5 years, 4 months ago

My partner is transgendered and currently facing daily harrassment by coworkers. Nobody had a problem two years ago when he first transitioned, but now that he fully passes as a man (full beard and all) one particular new coworker has taken to harrassing him, threatening him, and calling him names on a daily basis.

As the Lawrence anti-discrimination statute currently stands, my partner has no protection at his job. His employer could decide that they are just tired of dealing with this situation and could choose to fire my boyfriend just because he's transgendered.

Transgendered folks are the most targetted for hate crimes; in daily life whether or not they "pass" can be an issue of life and death. Transgender folks deserve to be protected by anti-discrimination laws so that they feel comfortable knowing they won't lose their job or be kicked out of their housing JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE TRANS. Transgender discrimination is currently protected by the law. There is no recourse for transgender people until the anti-discrimination law changes.

Regardless of how weird you might think transgender people are, can't you agree that they should not be fired or kicked out of their apartment BECAUSE of their gender presentation? Transgender people deserve the right to work and make a living for themselves and be legally protected from on-the-job harrassment about their gender presentation and identity.

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tom_bodett 5 years, 4 months ago

Kryptenx:

You must be one of those people who has the "as bigoted as you think" bumper sticker on your car right next to your KANSAS LICENSE PLATE!!! Moron!

There are 49 other states you could be living in! Take your pick!

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frowniebrown 5 years, 4 months ago

mytwocents- Thank you for sharing your BFs story. I seriously doubt a bunch of punks taking an internet poll would have the guts to tell your partner to his face that his right's should not be protected.

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tunahelper 5 years, 4 months ago

a crime is a crime is a crime, no matter who you are, except for teddy kennedy.

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waterislife 5 years, 4 months ago

Greetings Lawrence!

I am a female to male transgendered individual. I've been taking male hormones for 2 1/2 years and now people consistently see me as a guy, which finally matches the way I feel about myself.

I see many opinions on what this issue is "really about" and as a transgendered person myself, I'd like for my opinion to be considered as well.

It takes a lot of courage to go up against society and challenge how people think about gender. But for many transgendered people, we don't have any choice, it's transition or death. The pain and confusion I felt as a girl was overwhelming. But now I am happy and confident, comfortable in my own skin. Finally free to pursue the career of my dreams, except for the fact that my social status went down from female to tranny and the law doesn't care to protect me anymore.

But hiding my trans identity is the last thing I want to do. When I was a girl I didn't want to have anything to do with looking like a girl because that's not what I felt like. Now I realize that no matter how much I want to be a guy, I'll always be a little different, at least on the physical and social levels: I'm not planning on having surgery on my genitals because the success rate isn't good enough for me to sign on. I was raised as a girl so there are some responses I was trained to have that make me stick out as a feminine guy. I'm ok with these things, they're part what make me who I am. I like wearing the occasional girlish accessory now as a guy. I hope people see it as challenging gender roles. One thing I don't like though about looking like a guy, is the things that people sometimes assume about me because of it, like assuming I have a penis that controls my thoughts, or assuming I will think a rape joke is funny, or any number of things that might be true of a guy that aren't for me. So to set myself apart, I wear pink sunglasses or put a feminist patch on my bag. That doesn't make me a pussy, as my co-workers would say (I'm "mytwocents'" BF), it's a sign of pride and self confidence, similar to the pride I have in my heritage, so similar I'm sure to the pride others have in theirs.

I am asking for the right to come to work to earn a living and be treated with respect, regardless of my gender, the same way a person has the right to come to work to earn a living and be treated with respect regardless of their race. Period.

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Cooky_the_Cook 5 years, 4 months ago

I respect you. The beard seems a little pushy. I won't tell rape jokes anymore.

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waterislife 5 years, 4 months ago

Thanks for refraining from rape jokes Cook, but I don't get what's pushy about the beard? The introduction of testosterone to my body encouraged hair growth on my face. I've never really liked shaving any part of my body - mammals have hair all over, I can't change that.

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George_Braziller 5 years, 4 months ago

Cooky - Your moronic comment illustrates the exact reason this amendment is being proposed.

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waterislife 5 years, 4 months ago

thanks george! glad you're a lawrencian!

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booyalab 5 years, 4 months ago

Discrimination occurs against all kinds of people every minute of every day. Do I think the government should interfere with privately run businesses and individuals' right to discriminate against a tiny fraction of them? Absolutely not. That isn't justice.

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AjiDeGallina 5 years, 4 months ago

booyalab,

You truly fail humanity trying to create a system where little Hitlers can act freely and rise to power.

Racism, sexism and homofobia are all signs of terrorism, hate and failure in a society. I love America and wish us to succeed.

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Paul Decelles 5 years, 4 months ago

VTHawk,

You wrote:

"Just this last November I had someone tell me that they wouldn't rent me an apartment because of my race, but such it life. It was their apartment, and forcing them to rent it to me accomplishes nothing."

Unfortunately caving in like you did only lets the bigots get away scott free. You didn't have to rent from that person but there are civil penalties attached to equal housing laws that could have been used to punish the landlord.

As for "protected classes" somehow being unamerican, actually this sort of idea runs deep in American thought. All you have to do is consider religion and race or for that matter disability. I wish we didn't need these sorts of laws but until we learn not to be so fearful of people who don't match our expectations of what "ought"-in this case gender-I am afraid we do.

I am not saying that you are doing this, but usually when I hear the protected classes argument I take that as a rationalization rather than a legitimate argument, a smoke screen for one's biases.

Regards,

Paul

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bevy 5 years, 4 months ago

waterislife - taken from your girlfriend's post "one particular new coworker has taken to harrassing him, threatening him, and calling him names "

You don't need a new law to protect you from this behavior. It's called sexual harassment and it is already prohibited by law. You need to make a formal complaint to your employer, and also file a complaint with the Kansas Human Rights Commission. Once you do, the KHRC will investigate for you. If your employer does not take corrective action, they can be held legally liable for their failure to act.

Your co-workers' behavior is unwelcome, it is based on your gender (or gender identification, or sexual orientation, if you prefer) and it creates a hostile work environment. It is sexual harassment, and you have the right to be protected against it. Your gender identification makes no difference.

I wish I had known about KHRC when I was being sexually harrassed at my job at a local car dealership. Instead, I was told (incorrectly) by an attorney that I had no legal grounds, and to save myself the hardship. I found out during a later training for my new job that I had legal grounds for making a complaint, and possibly for a lawsuit. Unfortunately the statute of limitations had already passed.

I hope that you will stand up for your rights - because you DO have rights. Good luck dealing with the neanderthal idiots in your workplace.

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Jeri_Michelle 3 years, 1 month ago

Transgendered persons do not want "special" treatment. We only want to be treated like everyone else.

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