Archive for Saturday, October 13, 2012

Wetlands advocates look for new ways to stop construction of South Lawrence Trafficway as legal battle ends

Millicent Pepion, former leader of the Wetlands Preservation Organization, is pictured Thursday at the Medicine Wheel located on the southern edge of the Haskell Indian Nations University campus. Pepion and others fear that this area will be affected by the construction of the South Lawrence Trafficway.

Millicent Pepion, former leader of the Wetlands Preservation Organization, is pictured Thursday at the Medicine Wheel located on the southern edge of the Haskell Indian Nations University campus. Pepion and others fear that this area will be affected by the construction of the South Lawrence Trafficway.

October 13, 2012

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Timeline

Click here to see a timeline of events about the South Lawrence Trafficway.

At one time, Patrick Austin Freeland thought a fancy suit and a trip to Washington, D.C., probably was the best way to stave off the South Lawrence Trafficway.

Freeland, like dozens upon dozens of Haskell Indian Nations University students over the last two decades, has been a crusader to stop the South Lawrence Trafficway from being built through the wetlands that are owned by Haskell and Baker universities along 31st Street.

For Freeland and others, the battle has meant more than carrying a sign to a protest now and then. Freeland served as the president of the Wetlands Preservation Organization, an organization that has been a longtime plaintiff in a federal lawsuit regarding the route of the road.

It also meant trips across the country to lobby to groups both sympathetic and hostile to the cause. Freeland was dressed and ready to depart for such a meeting in Washington when one of the resident assistants at the Haskell dormitory asked the young man in the suit where he was going.

Freeland told him, in essence, he was off to try to save the wetlands.

“He just laughed a bit,” Freeland said of the issue that happened several years ago. “He said I didn’t have to do that, and he was so sure of it. I asked him why, and he said, ‘Because there is medicine down there. The wetlands has its own medicine.’ That has stuck with me.”

Soon, the medicine is going to get tested.

• • •

Last week marked the end of the legal battle over the South Lawrence Trafficway. A deadline to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court a federal court decision in favor of the road’s wetland route came and went. For the first time since 1994, the trafficway has all the federal permits it needs for construction, and all the legal appeals related to the permits have been exhausted.

Kansas Department of Transportation officials have said construction on the $192 million road project should begin in about a year, about 23 years after Douglas County voters approved a $4 million local bond issue for the road.

But lawyers haven’t been the only constant these past two decades in the trafficway fight. As sure as the sound of the croaking frogs along the wetlands’ boardwalk, a new crop of Haskell students every couple of years would enter the fray and make their own noise.

“Every group has passed the torch to the next one,” said Dan Wildcat, a Haskell professor and a longtime defender of the wetlands.

The issue of protecting the wetlands from the road became so ingrained in Haskell students that it really became a significant part of the educational experience at the university, Wildcat said.

“I think a whole group of students have learned that it is hard work to be politically engaged,” Wildcat said. “It is not easy. But I always have been proud of them. They always have conducted themselves honorably, even when they expressed their opinions strongly.”

Despite the end of the legal proceedings, Wildcat doesn’t think students will stop fighting for the wetlands. Several wetlands supporters last week said they expect the opposition movement to enter a more political lobbying phase, especially seeking to enlist the help of groups that may object to the project’s estimated $192 million price tag.

“It has all the elements to be a national issue, especially in the Indian community,” Wildcat said. “You know, it takes a lot of money to build a highway like that. I think there will be an effort to build political awareness and convince lawmakers that there might be better ways to spend that much money.”

• • •

Millicent Pepion found the wetlands early in her Haskell career.

“My grandma graduated from Haskell in the late ’40s,” said Pepion, who will be a senior when she re-enters the school next semester. “She used to tell me about a place where they would have picnics and hang out. When I first got here, I went looking for that place.”

That’s the way it is with many Haskell students and the wetlands. It is more than just an area of rich environmental diversity. Many in the Haskell community believe the wetlands area — parts of which were farmed in the early parts of the century — are the resting place of children who went missing from the Haskell Institute in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

No graves have been unearthed in the wetlands, but wetland supporters have said they’ll be monitoring construction of the road closely to ensure burial sites aren’t found, if construction does begin on the road.

The spiritual significance of the wetlands is one reason why a multimillion-dollar mitigation plan, which will build more than 300 acres of new wetlands, plus bike paths, camping grounds and a wetlands education just west of the current wetlands, has done little to mute the opposition from Haskell students.

“As I’ve learned more about this, I’ve realized this really isn’t an environmental issue,” said Pepion, who also is a former president of the Wetlands Preservation Organization. “It is really an eco-justice issue. This is about the desecration of a sacred place.”

Freeland said that’s been an element that’s never been well understood during all the legal wrangling, in part because there’s no easy metric to measure how sacred a place is.

“It is like an elderly person,” said Freeland, who is now studying for his doctorate in ecological science and engineering at Purdue University. “Somebody asks you the value of an elderly person. You can’t describe that in one way. You just have to say ‘get to know the person, and you might learn something.’”

• • •

What started out as a search for a picnic spot led to a much longer journey for Pepion.

Last summer, Pepion organized the “Trail of Broken Promises,” an event where she and 12 other wetlands supporters and a dog traveled from Osawatomie to Washington, D.C., primarily on foot, a nine-week journey that led her to take a semester off school.

“My dad is funny,” Pepion said. “He said, ‘Why couldn’t you have just bought a pass to the Jayhawks instead of trying to save the wetlands?’”

But the experience has been worth it, she said.

“I’ve learned a lot about the meaning of politics,” Pepion said. “I’ve learned how it can really affect your daily life. They say that these decisions in Washington trickle down and find their way into your daily life. I understand that now.”

And that’s what she is hoping for in the future. While in Washington, D.C., Pepion made contacts with members of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, the National Congress of American Indians, and even had a personal conversation with Bill Clinton at the conference for his Global Initiatives Fund.

Pepion and others are working to build support for a federal law called the Native American Sacred Place Act, which could provide new federal protections to the Haskell and Baker Wetlands.

The bill hasn’t yet had a hearing. Whether the votes will ever be there to pass the legislation is tough to know. But Pepion is confident what won’t be lacking is the one thing that Haskell students long have delivered to the issue: the persistence to keep pushing.

“What I know is, they have been building this road for over 20 years now,” Pepion said. “And it hasn’t been built yet. That is what keeps me going.”

Comments

Curtis Lange 2 years, 6 months ago

What a joke.

"especially seeking to enlist the help of groups that may object to the project’s estimated $192 million price tag"

Yea, lets 'enlist' folks to help us balk at the price tag our delay caused.

Bill Lee 2 years, 6 months ago

The prayer wheel was built after everyone knew about the bypass being built, so why complain now as if it's a big surprise. The article mentions the area was farmed early in the century. It was also farmed late in the 20th century. Wetlands can be creted somewhere else just as easily. Flood some land and let nature take its course.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm psychic !

Many in the Haskell community believe the wetlands area — parts of which were farmed in the early parts of the century — are the resting place of children who went missing from the Haskell Institute in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

Any bets on when bones start to show up ?

Ron Holzwarth 2 years, 6 months ago

Nope, no bets from me on that one.

There's a small graveyard in the southeast part of the Haskell campus that has about 200 white tombstones, apparently all from about the same time. I think that would be a good place to start looking for bones.

There's another point to be made though - we're talking wetlands, but only since the last few decades, and I think that a body that's been lying underground in the wet won't leave any bones at all after less than ten years. And, since the wetlands of today were plowed and very fertile fields and cow pastures since at least the 1930s until the 1960s, there's not going to be very many remains left at all.

For a history composed of aerial photographs of the Baker "wetlands" see the link below. It is obvious that "wetlands" make excellent cattle pastures and fields for farming. That is, until they are announced to be "wetlands".

Caption from the photograph taken in 1966:

The plans for 31st street were under way by 1966; the aerial has a hand-drawn line marking the future location of the street. However, there is no evidence of natural wetlands. Yet, in 1969, the wetlands were declared a National Natural Landmark.

http://jayniskitchen.tv/weblogs/did_i_say_that/2010/jun/18/wetlands/

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."

  • Vladimir Lenin

msezdsit 2 years, 6 months ago

"we're talking wetlands, but only since the last few decades...." Sorry Ron, This is what we are really talking about and hope this doesn't pop your bubble.

Were talking about wetlands created by nature and that were returned to the wetlands in the last few decades. Now had you said this your post would have some validity, and i mean "some"

Richard Heckler 2 years, 6 months ago

The plan is obsolete and cost too much money. For the same money 1,250 miles of safe hiking and biking could be built across the state going North/South and East/West plus throughout Lawrence.

And employ wayyyyyyyyyy more people in the process. The best bang for the tax buck. Maintenance costs would be nearly zero comparatively. No cars or 18 wheelers to tear up the road 24/7.

50YearResident 2 years, 6 months ago

Sure, build trails and paths, then commuters can just walk or bike to their jobs in KC,

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

Expand the K-10 Connector service and tie it in better with the Jo and fewer people would need to drive K-10 to get to work.

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

You never see a problem using the working mans money for your own personal agenda. This wetland area is a fraud and the road needs to be built.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

This plan is going to cost more than it should, but only because the left has pointlessly cause delays. You are lucky I'm not Governor. If I were, any excess cost beyond 150% of the original estimate would come out of a percentage of funds the state would normally give Haskell for the next 30 years.

Haskell caused the price to increase, I'd make Haskell pay it.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Millicent is correct - this has never been an environmental issue, it has always been an ecojustice issue. Jayhawk Audubon, Sierra Club, and KU Environs were never able to understand that. But the one main problem is that for it to qualify as an ecojustice issue within the federal legal framework, it has to be tied to a specific tribe. Not even the Pottawatomie Tribe (Prairie Band) has ever been willing to declare this a sacred site. It is, no doubt, a sacred site to individual students (and faculty?) over the decades, but that does not fit within federal legal framework. It was a clever idea that some faculty and outside "agitators" had to stir up the myth that 400-500 missing students were "most likely" buried in the "wetlands". A claim that can never be proven one way or the other. It has been a valuable educational lesson for many untold students, such as Patrick and Millicent, but in the end the road has funding and with a Republican held KS legislature that is very unlikely to change. Sam Brownback has called it his "Pet project within T-Works". Does that sound like something that is likely to be unfunded? It will be built and there will be 10% less wetlands. That is it. A big fuss over 10% of the "sacred area". Even Mike Caron has said that the places the students went to hide were down along the river - those are the places that should be protected - and they will be as they are nearly a mile south of the SLT. Out of harms way. So if any student feels the need to come to the former sacred sites of HINU students from the early 1900's they can still come there. One thing Millicent didn't reveal is whether she found her Grandmother's secret picnic spot. My guess is, it was near the present day Medicine Wheel rather then down in the "wetlands".

FriedirchKling 2 years, 6 months ago

"Your" time is sacred. Such a typical selfish comment.

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

Selfishness is claiming a wetland that was never there for reason that never happened.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

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BigRedW 2 years, 6 months ago

If you are going to call Baker University a "whore" get you numbers right. You are always loose with the facts. Baker owns the land and they have decided what is best for the education of the land and you have no way to change that. Sour grapes. Maybe if you and Haskell were willing to listen and have input into this entire project (that is happening) you and Haskell would have something to show for your "hard" work. Don't quit your day job.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

So, what's the right number for this "transaction?"

Richard Heckler 2 years, 6 months ago

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gl0ck0wn3r 2 years, 6 months ago

What a fantastic story... about Portland. Yes, it's totally reasonable to build a bike path between Topeka and KC. Those that commute to KC can start the night before and bike into KC for work.

50YearResident 2 years, 6 months ago

Merrill forgot to factor in the cost of safety cables on these paths to protect the walkers from the bikers. I guess he wasn't thinking about all the accidents that could happen by a drunk biker crossing the center line and running over an innocent walker.

Piggles 2 years, 6 months ago

Oh puLEEEZEEE GIvE IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! These were man made to begin with and can be created again somewhere else. The so-called wetlands along 31st is a joke- it's gross looking and nasty looking. Not only that if it's "sacred" to begin with, 31st street wouldn't of been built. But it was. We need that bypass.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

It's a good thing that frothing spittle doesn't translate into bits and bytes.

George_Braziller 2 years, 6 months ago

Need to check your history "facts." They were natural wetlands drained to create farmland. All of the drainage channels weren't the work of mother nature.

Topple 2 years, 6 months ago

Gross and nasty are the same thing.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

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gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

The majority isn't always right. That's why we don't have direct democracy, to prevent a tyranny of the majority.

Anthony Mall 2 years, 6 months ago

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gl0ck0wn3r 2 years, 6 months ago

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tbaker 2 years, 6 months ago

So Native Americans have the market cornered on interacting with the natural world.

Wow....

Enlighten us Les. Tell us about these characteristics unique to Native Americans that makes them so much better qualified to commune with Mother Nature?

I'm curious, is your bigotry and racism limited to just that of the descendants of once indigenous people, or do you also believe the other ethnicities that make up the human race have special powers too?

I have GOT the hear this.

Fatty_McButterpants 2 years, 6 months ago

You are an idiot. Everyone knows that Native Americans had tribal cultures focused on achieving harmony with the natural world because they recognized that we are all part of the same eco-sphere; Western culture, on the other hand, believes that nature exists to serve its needs. I'm quite certain he wasn't saying they have special powers...

hujiko 2 years, 6 months ago

That is such an uniformed statement, it's laughable. First, you're generalizing such a diverse set of people that by trying to defend them you are wholly misrepresenting them. Second, the notion that all Native Americans - or any indigenous group around the world - are in better harmony with their environment is quite debatable, as many experience failures just as often as successes. Finally, the idea that only Western cultures exploit/shape nature to their benefit is absolutely absurd.

Your argument is approaching environmental deterministic proportions; sweet 19th century thinking.

Fatty_McButterpants 2 years, 6 months ago

You're right, it was a generalized statement; this is a freaking online comment board, not an academic publication. As for your second reply, perhaps "respect" would have been a better word for what I was trying to express. Finally, I did not write that only Western cultures exploit/shape nature to their benefit -- obviously that is an absurdity -- so perhaps you should read things a bit more carefully. I did, however, say that Western culture, mostly because of religious ideology, believes that nature was created "by the grace of God" in order to serve the needs of mankind. As a result, there is very little respect for nature; a sentiment that has been displayed rather extensively on these boards.

tbaker 2 years, 6 months ago

So the rules of an on-line comment board mean you can spew forth basless, bigoted opinion, unsupported by even a shred of rational thought or reasoning.

Got it. I'll know what to look for the next time you post.

Fatty_McButterpants 2 years, 6 months ago

Bigoted? Tell you what: go buy a dictionary and learn what that word actually means. Until then, any meaningful discussion with you is pointless.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

Why does the journal world approve and protect statement plainly saying one group of people has a greater sense of right and wrong? There is a word for that sort of thought.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

Maybe if some of the eco-crazies want to block the dozers they themselves can become the bones to be found on that "sacred" ground.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

It would be a good excuse to make the cops trudge through scrub to arrest them. Eco-whatevers go to jail, cops get dirt on their shoes and have to clean them later. It's win/win!

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

No way, I want to see them in the muck.

No barnyard jokes please regarding animals that wallow in the mud.

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

If your electric bill is $500, the problem is you, not the cost of electricity.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

It used to be $400. We have dogs and fish that will overheat and possibly die if we don't run the AC 24/7 during the summer. It's easing up now that we don't need the air.

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

I run A/C during the summer. My annual electric bill is $400.

Topple 2 years, 6 months ago

Be happy you don't live in KC with KCP&L. My folks live in OP and had $400+ electric bills all summer and aren't ridiculous with their A/C.

John Yocum 2 years, 6 months ago

Give it up. Things happen. Like Westar taking all the trees out of my backyard! Besides, the folks who are against this always suddenly come up with some new eco/spiritual/historic reason to oppose it at the last minute, which just makes them look less believable, and quite silly, as the years go on. By the way, I think the comment about Native Americans having a greater sense of right and wrong is hilarious. But nice piece of self-promotion on the book.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

Poor Millicent looks sad. I'd be sad too if I had the audacity to try and tell other people what they could do with their property and was told to pound sand by the legal system.

You ecojustice warriors have lost your silly little game. Find something else to complain about. Go look for an owl or something.

"Ecojustice"... LOL.

geekin_topekan 2 years, 6 months ago

I think that maybe Haskell students should start to think about how they can capitalize on their location and access points to the bypass because, clearly, the environmental thing ain't working.

Maybe a duty free smokeshop. Annex Haskell into a community college, accepting outsider's federal funding. If the wetlands are as holy as they say, all will be as God intended and those who fought for its preservation shall be rewarded.

Apparently the God's of the wetlands have other plans and the Haskell folk had better take heed.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

I like the idea of combining Haskell with a community college,

geekin_topekan 2 years, 6 months ago

Oh, and, congrats Millicent on taking first place in the writing contest.

JackMcKee 2 years, 6 months ago

Haskell is a joke. It should be cut off from taxpayer dollars.

Ron Holzwarth 2 years, 6 months ago

I don't feel that way about it at all. I have been fortunate enough to have had a few Native American friends that grew up on various reservations. On some or most of the reservations, there are very few jobs and the quality of education is not very good. That's a combination that can lead a person to grow up with very little hope for the future.

None of them were criminals though, and my opinion is that since they do not have much of a chance for a decent education at home, giving them the pittance that Haskell University can offer them is a small price to pay for taking the whole continent away from their ancestors.

NIsayz 2 years, 6 months ago

Hi, I want to let you know I been following this from over here in Ontario. Here in my area we had to have a vigil/occupation to get our burial grounds back...the land where some our our ancestors were buried was sold by the local township and houses were built overtop of their remains. This was unknown to most of the local residents...long story but one thing worth mentioning is that the contractor is responsible if bones are found... The one working at our burial ground site told the 'landowner' about the remains noticed and it was disregarded. I pray that if it comes to be...for honest contractors and workers with integrity who are not afraid to speak up and do he right thing. I uphold your connection with these wetlands and wish a better outcome. Having stories about this place tells me that it has been kept consciously in mind and under the radar...safe from being desecrated. I can see racism has raised its ugly head in your area...fight the good fight! Much respect, Sheena

50YearResident 2 years, 6 months ago

Millicent said, "“My grandma graduated from Haskell in the late ’40s,” said Pepion, who will be a senior when she re-enters the school next semester. “She used to tell me about a place where they would have picnics and hang out. When I first got here, I went looking for that place.” My comment, I have been looking for that place myself for over 50 years. While driving on the three roads that border the wetlands many thousands of times beginning in 1954, I have never seen even one Native American walking or picknicing inside the wetlands borders. This brings up the question, when do they go there?

Richard Heckler 2 years, 6 months ago

"Biodiversity and forests are critical for the survival of people and the planet, and are thus priceless.

Privatization = looting taxpayers of their money!

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/10/13

Richard Heckler 2 years, 6 months ago

"Sure, build trails and paths, then commuters can just walk or bike to their jobs in KC"

Gasoline powered commuters have trillions of tax dollars already invested in roadways to get back and forth to work. How can another $200-300 million tax $$$$ be justified?

Anthony Mall 2 years, 6 months ago

Did Haskell students say the remains of the missing children are in a cold, dark place, and surrounded by water??? We have heard enough of this crap over the years!!! Build the road!!!

FriedirchKling 2 years, 6 months ago

This is all part of a larger issue-mankind's relentless assault on the natural world. Based on some of the comments is it any surprise that every 24 hours mankind is responsible for the extinction of 200 animal and plant species while during this same time period the world human population net gains an additional 265,000. It does not require a doctorate degree to know that this formula is unsustainable. Colony Collapse Disorder is causing the extinction of native pollinators while domestic bee hives are being wiped out at the rate of 40%. White Nose Syndrome is a mysterious disease responsible for killing millions of bats-Mother Nature's most important insectivore. A single bat will consume its body weight in insects every night. With these losses farmers will have to apply ever greater amounts of poisons to kill the harmful insects. Chytrid is a mysterious fungus that originated in Israel and has spread worldwide. This fungus is wiping out entire Amphibian species in less than a year. The national symbol of Panama-the beautiful Golden Tree Frog was declared officially extinct last year due to the disease. You see, these new and deadly diseases are like canaries in the coal mine. We are being warned that we are killing our Earth's life support system as the intricate web of life becomes decimated. All the money in the world will not matter once we face ecological collapse. This is the most dangerous threat facing mankind, but conservation of our planet has turned into a partisan issue with Republicans opposed to environmental protections and Democrats favoring caution and responsible stewardship. The sad part is that once the catastrophe hits it will be too late.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

Let me distill the expected responses-- "Screw the natural world (and Haskell.) There's five minutes of convenience and $190 million in corporate welfare to be had, and more sprawl to be sprawled. (collectively known as progress)"

50YearResident 2 years, 6 months ago

200 species per day x 365 days = 73,000 per year x 100 years = 7,300,000 plant and animal species eliminated. by man in only 100 years. Can you verify these figures? Can evolution be part of the problem?

50YearResident 2 years, 6 months ago

I don't want to put you on the spot, but can you name the 200 species that went extinct yesterday?

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

for all of the uneducated garbage spewed on here you deserve what you're about to get. The only reason trolls try to reverse the anger directed at them is they're cowards with no concept of history to begin with. Some of you are stupid enough to call the Native people on here bigots after your ancestors, country, and government stole the land, killed people, stole kids off to places like Haskell, Carlisle, Chilocco, Chemawa, Tomah, and Riverside, to name a few of the hundreds of schools your white government set up to re program Native children to be white christians. I spoke with an 88 year old survivor of your government's policies yesterday as I advocated for her tribe in Ottawa. Her tribal history as a Munsee and Brothertown Indian is indicitive of this history that flies over the heads of simple trolls. Her ancestors were ran off Long Island, NY as the Dutch invaded the area and commenced genocide on the Raritan, Rockaway, Seconke, and Massapequa peoples in the mid 17th century. After fleeing to NE Pennsylvania,. the supposed friendly Quakers stole those lands in the Walking Purchase of 1737. Then Moravian parasites arrived to issue white names and christianity so that low class settlers wouldn't murder them for being savages in PA like they did in Mass and Conn. Then the French and Indian War and settlers ran them out of PA into Ohio where during the Revolutionary War the Gnadenhutten Massacre ocurred when 96 Munsee people were beaten to death with their hands tied behind their backs by white settler militias in 1782. The survivors fled to Michigan and later Ontario where during the War of 1812 Tecumseh was killed battling the Americans on the Moravian Munsee lands.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

The americans burned the Munsee Moraviantown community and the Canadians helped rebuild it. After the War of 1812 ended the lands the Munsee left after the Massacre in Ohio were sold out from under them. They were offered lands in Kansas in 1823 in they returned to the US. In 1838 the Munsee arrived in Kansas to find no land as promised. Lenape and Wyandot people helped them out until the Lenape offered them lands in an 1854 treaty that occurred as the white people overran boundaries and ignored federal laws and squatted. The Munsee lands where St. Marys College and the Soldier Cemetery at Leavenworth are now were Munsee lands. The Munsee left those lands as Kansas politicians, squatter and railroad land thieves shoved them off that land. They end up with Chippewa people west of Ottawa and the kansas and us government try to shove them into us citizenship or oklahoma from 1864 to 1900 thus succeeding in citizenizing them in 1900. The Munsee and Chippewa children along with Southern Cheyenne children were the first kids taken to Haskell in 1884. Taken against their will and the wishes of the parents by your government. legalized kidnapping. Indian agents would come to the houses of Indians and barge in after midnight and grab the kids. These kids were taken for years at a time to keep them away from Indian influences by protestant charges who began this practice in the mid 19th century.

Food_for_Thought 2 years, 6 months ago

"Ecojustice"...what a funny concept. Fight for the wetlands, but drive SUVs. Apparently, the local environment matters, but the global environment is expendable. Interesting.

jhawkinsf 2 years, 6 months ago

Don't know to whom he was addressing the comment, but I think the term he's looking for is "limousine liberals".

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

I bet those SUV's will be wearing down the pavement as soon as the road is done.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

Speaking of which, has the existing trafficway ever been repaved? Its been there almost 20 years (as far as I know) and it is still in very nice shape. If its original, I hope the rest is built as well.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

At places like Haskell these kids were beaten, starved, and isolated if they spoke their native language or practiced their traditional religions. They went to the weltands to avoid the beatings. That's why the wetlands are sacred. I hear all of the white nonsense about the prayer wheel. For all of the white history nonsense believers here's the real story.....your government outlawed any language but english and any religion except christianity at these boarding schools in 1886. Your government arrested traditional Indian religous leaders and withheld food and treaty monies as coercion tools. Your government sent the 7th US Cavalry to massacre 350 Lakota people with cannons and shots to the back because of the Ghost Dance....a Native religious practice...on December 29, 1890. That Medicine Wheel was built in 1992 because President Clinton signed the Native American Religous Freedom and Restoration Act into law ending over 100 years of banishment for Native religious practices on federal Indian school campuses. The Native American Church is now able to be on Haskell campus legally due to this law. I guess your First Amendment Rights are supposed to be for Native people. American Hypocracy I guess. That Munsee woman I spoke of remembers crying when she was eight years old being taken to Genoa, NE to the Pawnee School in the early 1930's. She went next to Wyandotte in Oklahoma and finally Haskell by the late 1930's. Her parents barely saw her for eight years due to your government and you want to build a road through where these people went to avoid being bullied like the trolls on here do. Some other Munsee girls who were taken from Ottawa, KS to the Flandreau, SD, Indian School escaped in 1934 and hitchhiked back to Ottawa to escape the conditions. I've heard these stories. Man they make your patriotism and denial look so great. In fairness every tribe has stories like this due to your country and it's actions. You live here because of these actions. Your religions forgive you as you still do the same wrong things like this trafficway. No conscience eh? Many tribes have similar stories in fairness and this brazen act just revives them. Are you proud of your history? because this road is just another example of it.

ThingTwo 2 years, 5 months ago

self·ish/ˈselfiSH/ Adjective:
(of a person, action, or motive) Lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

I guess I have to wait for the bulldozers to hit remains. White people don't stop even they're warned. The Lower Elwha Klallam people near Port Angeles Washington warned the Wash Dept. of Trans (WADOT) not to pursue a construction project for years much as we've warned you all. As the project there started bones and artifacts were uncovered and uncovered and uncovered. In all 400 sets of remains and thousand year old artifacts were uncovered and those Klallam people had to go to a warehouse to get their ancestors back to be reburied due to deaf white people just like the ones here. The project wan abandoned after $68 million was spent just like this one will be if some people come to their senses. The Klallam people received $6 million in damages for white people ignoring them. Furthermore in Brantford, Ontario, Canada last year, 200 sets of smashed bones of children were discovered on the grounds of the former Episcopal Mohawk Residential School where the Woodlands Cultural Centre and Mohawk Museum is. I went to this area and museum in the summer of 2002. There is an investigation going on up there. Where would one think there would be Indian burials....by a former Indian school that operated during a dark period in US history? why of course not.....it can't..... some people are in denial and they want their road....

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

selfish really...did you flunk american history....I'll answer for you.....yes you did.... your government stole 13 and a half million acres so that eastern Kansas could be settled after the Kansas Nebraska Act of 1854 and the Manypenny treaties of 1854 and 1855. Maybe I should have some of my Kansas Wyandotte friends whom I spoke to yesterday talk about how much of KCK in theirs and why it isn't now larrynative....I would like to introduce you to the Kaw, Shawnee, and Delaware people who know you are selfish because you are on their lands as we speak.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

We already met. That business is settled.

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

My great, great grandfather settled in eastern kansas in 1854 and was one of the first white settlers in the territory. Proud of it too. He paid for it, worked it, raised a family and died there. Spent more time working that land than anyone. I own it, respect it and will die there myself. Try to take it. Its mine, not yours. Don't lay claim to something YOU didn't work for. YOU do nothing but set around and want something for nothing. My tax dollars get spent on reservation land every year. It comes from me working and paying taxes. Do you?

asixbury 2 years, 6 months ago

My ancestors had no part in anything that happened in early American history. We came to America long after the battles with the natives ended. Therefore, I do not feel I need to keep paying and feeling apologetic for something neither I nor my family had absolutely anything to do with. What happened was terrible. Sadly, it was the way of the world back then to conquer and gain new land.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

bozo I'm addressing this at the usual suspects....not you.....before long all of the simpletons will appear.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

He was a murderous, psychopathic tyrant, but he wasn't the only one.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

Don't forget racist. Thanks for playing

Fred Whitehead Jr. 2 years, 6 months ago

Now that all the ecocrazies have been put down, the road will be built. That decision has been made and legally verified.

For these people to continue to pee in the wind and pull on Superman's cape is a demonstration of their foolishness in trying to obstruct and oppose the community that they live in and attend school in.

These "wetlands" as the Haskell Swamp is popularly labeled, are a violation of local ordnances against standing water nuisances. I fault the spineless, clueless Lawrence city government for not stepping in here years ago and having this mosquito ridden swamp adjacent to city residents (who pay taxes and actually have some rights in this stupid issue) drained and filled in to prevent further standing water hazards.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 6 months ago

I wondered when tuschie would wake up this morning.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Is this the best you got? Pitiful response, Bozo. But thanks for playing!

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

more of the same ignorance I've heard at Environmental Impact studies meetings over the last thirteen years....who educated you all? no one I guess....

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

I doubt he has ever seen a proper wetland. The Everglades has an interstate going right through 100 miles of it.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

gee you all were in the dark ages leaving europe as paupers from fiefdoms fearful of a square earth and having salem witch hunts due to your fanaticism and irrational skepticism. I loved watching that movie "The New World" about Jamestown and the Powhattan Confederacy where the Indians watched these settlers who were dumb enough to settle on a tidal flat with no fresh water and no ability to plant crops and bad teeth and nothing but arguing amongst each other. The Indians felt pity upon them as I do some of you now. Twenty five years after this time many more arguing religious supersticious paupers showed up and massacred the Powhattan Confederacy from 28 tribes to 6 or so today. I guess the uninformed arguing and religious skepticism exists today. Furthermore if Ben Franklin would've never heard about the Six Nations and their governing rules in 1754 when he heard the Onandaga speaker Ganestota speak how would he have come up with the concept of how states have so many electoral votes based on what the Mohawk, Cayuga, Seneca, Oneida, Onandaga, and Tuscarora did as they governed? Now get George Will to refute me will you?

gl0ck0wn3r 2 years, 6 months ago

So yeah, they were brilliant... but not brilliant enough to save their land or themselves in a war. They lost. It's over.

Ron Holzwarth 2 years, 6 months ago

I wonder why that concept has never worked in the Middle East.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community." This blog is a classic for you Tuschie - clearly off topic!!!

ThePilgrim 2 years, 6 months ago

Eco-Justice...Nice job creating a new term. If the area is sacred, then allow NO development in SE Lawrence. Period. But that won't happen.

And I don't see anyone crying over the coal plant which greets travelers on the turnpike, and says more about Lawrence then the KU signs.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community." I would say that if anyone is a TROLL it would be Tuschie as nearly all his posts are inflammatory, extraneous, AND off-topic. Everything that has happened to native people in the US does not relate to the construction of the SLT through the Baker Wetlands. This land was legally transferred to Baker University from the Dept of Health, Education, and Welfare in 1968. It has not been "owned" by Native Americans since the mid-1850's. We all wish you would wait until bones are found during construction. Most of us wish you would even hold your breath while you are waiting...at least quit posting until then! The landowner, Baker University, has the legal right to do whatever they wish with their property. They have chosen to sacrifice less than 10% of it in exchange for an additional 380 acres and funding to establish a visitor center to educate people about the benefits of wetlands to all people - not just Native Americans. The end result will benefit the wetlands and the community many times over.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

But the eco-crazies won't take that into consideration.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

that's because you idaho and your white denial refuse to own your history of theft and denial....boyd hasn't .... the trustees who showed up to the public hearings at the fairgrounds in 2003 didn't.....you all stole all of this country except for the reservations and sacred sites that are left....I guess the guilty want forgiveness from those whom they trespassed upon.....your god does that I guess and then lets you all sin over and over and over....why worry about those other people who worshipped in the open area you've desecreted.....you can be like the dimwits in Joneville, LA who tore up a 200 foot around by 100 foot tall Troyville Culture religious mound for a highway in 1931 who regret it now and have tried to rebuild what they destroyed because they destroyed it in the first place as ignorantly as you all are proposing now. Denial works with shallow people like cheap fast food....it's easily digestible. It's the real history that causes indigestion amongst those to lazy to realize their sins and offensiveness.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

Tusch I can promise you I have never stolen anything from an Indian in my life. You however have stolen my time by posting your incohirent babble.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community." This blog is a classic for you Tuschie - clearly off topic!!!

gl0ck0wn3r 2 years, 6 months ago

Why don't the remaining Native American nations declare war on the United States to take their land back? If the land was "stolen" (more accurately taken in a war between multiple civilizations), why not start the war anew. For example, the tribes in the KS area could launch a surprise attack on Ft. Riley.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

oh yeah...2016...dinesh d'souza.....twit.....bull hockey.....really.....

lawdog 2 years, 6 months ago

Building the bypass won't help.....you all are going to still be 'bbbbbbbiiii.......complaining' LOL!

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

"oh yeah...2016...dinesh d'souza.....twit.....bull hockey.....really....."

Is it really fair to call this incoherent drivel? Tuschie - I thought you were going to hold your breath until they found some bones out there?

Do you honestly think anyone listens to your rants? You have lost your audience [if you EVER had one], but please, drone on for your own sake.

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

Too bad there doesn't appear to be a way to reverse the illegal transfer of Haskell land to Baker.

Piggles, be grateful that the green stuff on the north side of 31st is here and not in the Gulf of Mexico. That growth is the result of fertilizer runoff, and the wetlands is filtering that runoff before it can get to the river and wash downstream. And it can't be too nasty or the ducks wouldn't be fishing in it.

Ron, you're ignoring the fact that the wetland was there before it was drained in the 20th century. So it's not man-made, it has been somewhat restored. If it were up to me, I'd remove 31st, too.

Yeowman doesn't understand the difference between stagnant water, such as what one might find inside an abandoned tire, and a healthy ecosystem. If he lives nearby and has a mosquito problem, it's probably from a clogged gutter or an abandoned planter in his or a neighbor's yard, and not from the wetlands. Mosquitoes travel only 300' or so from home.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

If you and others, believe the transfer was illegal, why was it never challenged in court. Why didn't the masterful attorney, Bob Eye, not challenge it. The simple answer is that it WAS a legal transfer. If it had not transferred to Baker it would have been transferred to an entity that would have kept it drained and turned it into something other than the present wetlands. You should realize how fortunate you are that Baker did receive it and restore it. With out the Boyds you wouldn't have anything to whine about.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 2 years, 6 months ago

Yeppers, gccs14r, I do understand. Environmental wackos have been doing the usual creative obfuscation by creating such odd terminology as "eco-systems" or "obamacare" to trash and bash anyone who does not worship their goofy plans.

The city and county wanted to do something to relieve the traffic problems that were building up from one side of town to the othere, and immediately the environmental wackos and other deficient personalities with little else to do emerged to oppose this plan. It has been a perpetual story line here in little ole Larryville, the wackos and itiots who contribute little to the community want to make their bleating voices heard and responded to to assuage their feelings of uselessness (which are real) and make some sort of noise rattling in the wind.

And by the way the official spelling of my U.S. Navy rate is "Yeoman Second Cass", enlisted pay grade E5.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

armstrong....any non Native American who lives in Lawrence, Kansas, in the year 2012 needs to acknowledge that the George Manypenny Treaty of 1854 with one of the three Shawnee tribes in existence whose now in Vinita and White Oak, Oklahoma, is the reason for you being able to live in Lawrence now. Without this theft by coercion due to the Kansas Nebraska Act of 1854 you would be living on an Indian Reservation. As such you are a beneficiary of theft by squatters from the New England Emigrant Aid Society associated with 19th century land thief professional Samuel Pomeroy who stole Indian land so well he became a US Senator so he could steal more lands for townsites and railroads. Ask the Munsee, Kickapoo, and Osage peoples about Samuel Pomeroy's land theft prowess. Read the Book "The End of Indian Kansas 1854-1871" so see how you've benfitted from those wonderful Kansas land grafter's acts.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

Only problem with that Chuckles is I don't live in Larryville.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

dinesh d'souza came like any simpleton conservative to the Ottawa University campus some time ago to speak about the mascot issue. He is a twit and a beneficiary of caste system priviledge in India. He was so priviledged that he thinks himself above struggle. end of story. Obviously, I got under you skin Idaho you replied.....score.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

if you live in eastern kansas you should thank the us government for stealing the lands between Ft. Scott and Atchison and Fairway and Topeka from two Sac and Fox tribes, two Potawatomi tribes, the Iowa Tribe, The Kickapoo Tribe, the Wyandotte Tribe, the Delaware Tribe, two Shawnee tribes, the Miami tribe, two Ottawa Tribes, the Munsee and Chippewa people, the Peoria, Wea, Kaskaskia, and Piankishaw people, and the Omaha and Otoe-Missouria tribes in Nebraska. Thirteen and a half million acres of land between 1854 and 1855 was stolen by coerced treaties from these tribes allowing the cities of Atchison, Leavenworth, Topeka, and Lawrence to be founded. That's why all of these cities have founded in 1854 on their city seals. I guess if you don't think you're not guilty. Idaho....if you google tuschkahouma you will find at least six pages of blogging in papers from NY to MS to AL to OK to California that I've done in a decade or more. I'm nationwide. So much for your no one reads me nonsense.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

Since you're speaking english as opposed to Japanese or German you're welcome

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Keep on fooling yourself. Just because you blog doesn't mean that anyone reads or cares about what you have written.

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

Tusch, your going to die an angry person for wanting something that will never happen. Ever heard the spilled milk story? If the white man is so bad then dont use anything the white man or non native american invented. Such as cars, planes and most of all the internet. If the white man didn't take this land over you might be speaking spanish rather than english. Oh, did I say english. Is that what you speak. Why not your native tongue only. Don't bite the hand that feeds you!

Jeremiah Jefferson 2 years, 6 months ago

"They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they never kept but one; they promised to take our land, and they did."

Red Cloud

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 2 years, 6 months ago

Wow, I suppose next you'll be praising the Nazis and their campaign for Lebensraum.

mr_right_wing 2 years, 6 months ago

It's time to end the bickering, whining and complaining!

Get out and worship your artificial, man-made wetlands while you still have time (about a year apparently.)

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

right wing....intelligence.....oxymoron....oh well.....first amendment only applies to christianity and white people....publically admitted ignorance... wow.....

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

eine, zwei, drei, fehr, fumpf, achvffa, tuklo, tuchina, ushta, tahlapi, hannali. ba zhig, neshwe, newin, nawnon negotwoswe. German, Choctaw, Ojibwe. The Ojibwe man who cried yesterday in joy as he heard me speak Ojibwe in Ottawa will mean more than any white trolls who denies the sins of their country and it's Native American policies,

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

liberal (really???) the thieves never want to hear the truth even as they twist stories from the dark ages to justify their historical ignorance.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 6 months ago

tuschie, you must realize by now that the white people are not going to get back on ships and leave North America.

BigRedW 2 years, 6 months ago

amen...but he will not listen or stop his rambling rants. he has a one track mind that prevents him from listening to others opinions and shaping a new opinion. his cats must get tired of hearing him talking about nothing constantly.

Clark Coan 2 years, 6 months ago

The only way to stop it now is to convince the Chancellor to give back the 20 acres KU owns or Secretary of Wildlife, Parks and Tourism to give back the 20 acres it owns to HINU. A state agency (KDOT) can't condemn federal land. They probably won't do that because they hobnob with the powers-that-be and developers and don't want any controversy. KU might even benefit somehow from the SLT.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

no actually my cats love reading me wear the deniers out...... nice to hear all the white washing of colonialism by those taught from fraudulent history books.... yeah....thieves looked for tribal sellouts in the day larrynative....they still exist.....they're in the republican party now....... gotland.....nice rush limbaugh statement about the stone age.....or maybe george will or some other haughty conservative like pat buchanan.....you all are the ones who don't evolve....you must like the stone age....

BigRedW 2 years, 6 months ago

I am younger than you...and you will never wear me out. good luck trying.

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

I suggest that tushy move to Canada and live with native people there. Ooops, forgot, no federal and state tax payers money there. My bad.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

first of all....the bering straight clovis point 13,000 year date has been obliterated by the findings of a 19,000 year old cave dwelling site in Pennsylvania, a 15,000 year old site in Minnesota, and a 38,000 year old site in Brazil. Nice try with the we're all immigrants nonsense. Haskell is not trust land. It's federal government land. I love it when white people talk the casino stereotype nonsense without knowing the laws. It's funny....many of you probably consider Ronald Reagan a hero. I don't. However he signed Indian gaming into law in 1988. why don't you know more? The Eastern Delaware tribe tried to use Title 25 section 2917 B(1) b part II or the landless Oklahoma tribes land into trust law to get lands in their former reservation area here. The chamber of commerce did run them off.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

Maybe they evolved from howler monkeys.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

first of all this area has always been wetlands. even the sellout biologist had to finally admit that the soil type of the area in question was wetlands soil being very sandy. this was wetlands when paternalistic white overseers bent on making white people out of these Indians had them drain the wetlands and put tile down to make the water drain faster a century ago. White people treating Indians as if they didn't know how to farm....really.....Who gave you maize? Who discovered the medicinal plants used for many medicines now? the people on here now sound as dumb and paternalistic as the people who did the evil things to Indians a century ago. Read "They Call it Prairie Light" about the Chilocco Indian School in Oklahoma or "Boarding School Seasons" about the malnutrition, disease, cultural genocide, and the attempts to escape back to the reservation from these conditions or "Education for Extinction" about how Colonel Richard Pratt concocted the whole boarding school/military school model while dealing with Comanche, Apache, and Cheyenne POW's after the Plains Indian Wars in a prison at Fort Marion, Florida in the 1870's that led to Carlisle and Haskell amongst many other schools. Too bad Paul Brockington didn't correlate any of this in his "White History" of Haskell which the courts bought hook line and sinker.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

You ramble on incessantly without much to say - anyone else noticed that? I have explained this before and yet you don't understand/comprehend/remember? Which is it? To be a wetlands you must have three things - the right soil, water, the right plants. If it was planted to corn, soybeans, milo or even rice, it doesn't matter how wet it is it is no longer a wetlands. So from 1854 when it was homesteaded until the early 1990's much of the area in the Baker Wetlands (and the area along 31st St) was cultivated, therefore no wetlands. Why is that so difficult for you, of great wisdom, to remember. Floodplains can easily be restored to wetlands as the Boyds have done inside the original wetlands and to the west of Louisiana St. because the soil is still water-tight and will hold water. You said it was sandy - does that sound water-tight to you. You claim to know a lot about Indian History - stick with that because you know little about ANYTHING else.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

you pay absolutely no attention to the history of the area in question to it's role in the larger arena of american policy and it's affects on native americans which defines you as shallow. you and your ilk narrowed the native american history part of this equasion out with the precision of a heartless scientist... very cold and calculated. I heard roger boyd state what I said above at ecm on the ku campus a couple of years ago. he'd flipped his pr because it worked for him to deny the it was wetlands arguement to discredit native americans and get the local simpletons behind him on the win win arguement. once that was accomplished he went back to the it's wetlands arguement once the damage once done to benefit him. kind of like romney. the money spoke. he wanted to seem sympathetic after he took the money. i've never bought it. The Lakota say Mitikuye Oyasin....we are all related....all of the info I state is related to the wetlands in one way or another. too bad you're too caucasian to get it.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Do you EVER proof your blogs??? This is one more of your non-sensical posts! I can't say for sure what Boyd said at ECM but I do know you think you know what he said because you want it to conform to some conspiracy in your schizo mind. I don't think you know the difference between being an existing wetland vs a "prior converted wetland". PCW is a term that the NRCS uses to classify a parcel of land that used to be wetland before being drained for cultivation. It is possible this is what Boyd was saying and you didn't pick up on the difference...but go ahead and tell yourself what you need to in order to keep your world spinning. I also like your statement "all of the info I state is related to the wetlands in one way or another". This is clearly how you perceive it in your mind, but in no way does that make it true. Rock on, Dude!

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

It would be cheaper to help the 12,000 K-10 commuters wtih relocation costs. It'd be a win-win for everyone. The commuters would live in Johnson County, an environment they clearly prefer, they'd have a much shorter commute, we'd eliminate the demand for Olathe-style architecture and shop mix on the west side, and wouldn't need to build a new road.

oldbaldguy 2 years, 6 months ago

American Indians were dealt a crappy hand. My family was one of those on the frontier from the early 1700s until the 1870s. I know my ancestors in Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee took land by force from the Shawnee and Cherokee. Our farm in eastern Kansas was bought from the Shawnee in 1873. What are we supposed to do get on the boat and go back to Ireland and Scotland? We were forced to leave by the English. How far back do you go for the sins of your fathers?

clovis_sangrail 2 years, 6 months ago

I am too old and far too disaffiliated to get all fired up over the ecological issues or the the cultural ones.

Bit I do have a problem with paying $192 million so the special people in west Lawrence can shave 5 minutes off their commute to their Johnson County jobs and not have to drive on 23rd street with the hoi polloi.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 6 months ago

Is that a straw man or did somebody do a poor job of explaining the project to you?

clovis_sangrail 2 years, 6 months ago

Sorry, but I have never driven that Haskell/31st route and thought to myself, "Sweet jesus, when is someone going to do something about all these freakin' trucks!!"

That is a manufactured problem woven out of whole cloth to justify the expense.

This thing has always been about easy access to K-10 for west Lawrence.

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

Any trucker traveling through Lawrence on 23rd who doesn't have a stop here has an idiot for a dispatcher. There is no regular route to or from anywhere that needs to pass through here.

gccs14r 2 years, 6 months ago

So the concept of through traffic is lost on you. A grain elevator in Lawrence counts as a stop. A trailer depot counts as a stop. And a bypass is not going to change the need for vehicles headed to Lawrence elevators or depots to travel on streets in Lawrence.

yesiam 2 years, 6 months ago

I don't know what the rest of you are talking about... but I think Millicent Pepion is smoking hot. I'll agree with whatever she says.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

firstly idaho...you all are the kings of spin. I was there at ECM in a Choctaw Ribbon Shirt with my Choctaw Hat in traditional clothing. Mr. Boyd knew who I was. When one of the questioners implied that the wetlands were man made as many of the liers on here do Mr. Boyd corrected him and stated that regardless of the appearance of the wetlands that the soil type was that of wetlands being very sandy. That was one of the first times you all pulled your 180 degree denial and I witnessed it. You all did the denial bit on the wetlands existence for all it was worth and then when it looked like you were going to succeed in denying the indigenous part of this you changed your tune and faked actually caring about the area. As white scientists you will give more weight to the lands issues than those of Native peoples. That's a no brainer.....look at how insensitive you all are with the anthro and archae people. It's taken two decades of combating scientific and academic insensativity to get you all to act with manners around burial sites, you all act cold and insensitive towards indigenous peoples. I give scientists a hard time precisely because of behavior like yours Idaho. Actually Macheath, this area is of much significance. Eight hundred years ago Pomona Phase culture people or proto historic Indians lived and went up and down the Wakarusa. Many of their artifacts were discovered as archaelogical salvage work was done in preparation for much of the Wakarusa River Valley to be flooded by Clinton Lake in the late 1970's. There is a book on this in the OSMA collection at the Lawrence Public Library I've read many times. In historic times the Osage, Kaw, Shawnee, Delaware, and students from numerous indigenous nations who were kidnapped to Haskell by us government Indian agents were up and down the Wakarusa. The Oregon Trail came up through the west side of the wetlands and is marked on 31st street due to the past work of a Cherokee Haskell student. This area is very important and you sound like just another historically clueless non

tbaker 2 years, 6 months ago

What the people "deserve" is to be allowed to exercise their private property rights and utilize “their” land however they want. If those who oppose the road project were genuinely serious about all their eco-bilge and tripe, partnered with all the faux-spiritual value this man-made-swamp supposedly has to the DOIPs (descendants of once indigenous peoples) then they would have done the honorable thing and raised the money and bought the land and then exercised “their” private property rights to sit and chant by a pile of sticks or whatever the great spirit moved them to do.

But they didn’t do that. Instead you and your ilk would simply take these rights away from the owners. The smallest minority on this Earth is the individual person, and yet for all your self-righteous proselytizing over the grievous exploitation of this or that special group, you remain silent about the prospect of doing that which you profess to abhor to someone else. What do we call people who exhibit this behavior? What do we call the mentality which presumes to deprive someone else of their constitutional rights because that individual happens to have something we want?

I gotta hand it to you Touch, you will take just about any post that appears on this blog as a pretext to spew forth your utterly irrelevant and laughably biased histrionics. You are as hypocritical as you are tedious.

gl0ck0wn3r 2 years, 6 months ago

I was there in my wookie costume and I didn't hear that. Racist.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

You can tell yourself whatever you want, Tuschie. Does it make sense to you that wetland soil would be sandy? Can you answer that? Why would Dr. Boyd say something that transparent and that incorrect? In class, Dr. Boyd was very forthcoming about the historical condition of the property...it was not wetlands between 1850's and 1990's. PERIOD. There were two small parcels that were but that was it. A majority of the remaining 530 acres were restored in the 1990's. Now you can deny that and try to put words in Dr. Boyd's mouth but those are the facts. You can go to the local NRCS office and they can confirm that for you. But none of this really matters. They are wetlands today and that is what matters to true environmentalists like Dr. Boyd.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

firstly idaho...you all are the kings of spin. I was there at ECM in a Choctaw Ribbon Shirt with my Choctaw Hat in traditional clothing. Mr. Boyd knew who I was. When one of the questioners implied that the wetlands were man made as many of the liers on here do Mr. Boyd corrected him and stated that regardless of the appearance of the wetlands that the soil type was that of wetlands being very sandy. That was one of the first times you all pulled your 180 degree denial and I witnessed it. You all did the denial bit on the wetlands existence for all it was worth and then when it looked like you were going to succeed in denying the indigenous part of this you changed your tune and faked actually caring about the area. As white scientists you will give more weight to the lands issues than those of Native peoples. That's a no brainer.....look at how insensitive you all are with the anthro and archae people. It's taken two decades of combating scientific and academic insensativity to get you all to act with manners around burial sites, you all act cold and insensitive towards indigenous peoples. I give scientists a hard time precisely because of behavior like yours Idaho. Actually Macheath, this area is of much significance. Eight hundred years ago Pomona Phase culture people or proto historic Indians lived and went up and down the Wakarusa. Many of their artifacts were discovered as archaelogical salvage work was done in preparation for much of the Wakarusa River Valley to be flooded by Clinton Lake in the late 1970's. There is a book on this in the OSMA collection at the Lawrence Public Library I've read many times. In historic times the Osage, Kaw, Shawnee, Delaware, and students from numerous indigenous nations who were kidnapped to Haskell by us government Indian agents were up and down the Wakarusa. The Oregon Trail came up through the west side of the wetlands and is marked on 31st street due to the past work of a Cherokee Haskell student. This area is very important and you sound like just another historically clueless non Indian.

digger1 2 years, 6 months ago

MacHeath your right. If we go back far enough we all came from common ancestors. Some came first and others are still coming. The taking of lands was started thousands of years before it happened in North America. I for one did not do this nor did any of my American ancestors. I do have native blood in my veins as well as european blood. I consider myself an american without any prefixes. Living in the past only leaves a void in ones heart that will never be filled. I respect my ancestors for what they did to survive and succed. My goal is to provide for my family and to help others. If I lived in the past like some on here I would do neither.

Liberty275 2 years, 6 months ago

Mostly, I have only fleeting interest in Native American history and tuscawhatever doesn't know how to use paragraphs.

notajayhawk 2 years, 6 months ago

There are really only two valid points that are pertinent: 1) The people objecting to the use of the wetlands corridor don't own it; and 2) the courts have ruled (finally) that the project can go ahead.

tribalzendancer 2 years, 6 months ago

Wow your comment is very ignorant of white privilege. Your convenient method of breaking this down nicely obfuscates the injustice and disrespect occurring here. All of these anonymous trolls that post here are a real stain on the soul of this town and this forum.

It's incredible to witness so many people that just love to watch roads get built while violating the wishes of a large portion of the Lawrence community and watching more of the Earth bulldozed for an erroneous sense of progress. Serious, mental, value distortion. If it wasn't such a common belief, this kind of psychopathic thinking would require some serious therapy. The lack of empathy (a large part of what makes someone psychotic) is truly disturbing to witness on these forums and within our culture in general.

ps: psychopathic: a mental disorder in which an individual manifests amoral and antisocial behavior, lack of ability to love or establish meaningful personal relationships, extreme egocentricity, failure to learn from experience, etc.

asixbury 2 years, 6 months ago

They are going to expand the wetlands and make it much more accessible to educating the populace on its importance. This should be viewed as a win. The environment of the wetlands will be better off after the completion then it is in its current state. The road is going to be built; there is nothing that can stop it now. Time to stop belly-aching and move on to another project worth your time and energy. Only a crazy person tries the same thing over and over again and expects different results.

Flap Doodle 2 years, 6 months ago

Conflating this project with every thing that white people have done in the New World is folly without warrant.

tribalzendancer 2 years, 6 months ago

I think it's this simple snap-pop: we shouldn't disrespect the wishes of a part of this community, a community which has, historically, been subjugated to genocide, assimilation, and desecration of their lands in the name of "progress" for over 200 years. This wetlands road is a continuation of this disrespect. Western progress values dollar signs and roads. And it doesn't value protecting native wetlands. However, to myself and the Haskell community, progress means leaving the wetlands alone and building the road further south or not at all, as rising energy costs is going to necessitate economies relocalizing over the next 20 years, rather than building out for a system based on long-distance cheap energy. This is just economically smart as well as respectful to people in Lawrence who oppose the road. Building this road is just economically foolish. But the Department of Transportation has no sense of good economics.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/Watch/American_Holocaust_When_Its_All_Over_Ill_Still_Be_Indian/

Flap Doodle 2 years, 6 months ago

Getting in a plug for your own website, bub?

asixbury 2 years, 6 months ago

Without the "white people" in this world, we wouldn't have many of the modern luxuries everyone (including natives) benefits from on a daily basis. Don't like whitey? Time to throw out a lot of the modern technology you own and stop taking medicine since most of these advances were started by some "white" person. We should respect everyone's culture, opinion, race, what-have-you, not just certain classes or races. Why is it not ok to be proud of one's own heritage unless you are of only certain descents?

asixbury 2 years, 6 months ago

No, but I am advocating being proud of your heritage no matter if you're white, brown, orange, yellow, spotted. Why is it only acceptable to be proud if you are not white? That is the question.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

really observant....I'm a nutcase because you have white amnesia......you live in Douglas County, Kansas due to treaties with the Kaw, Shawnee, and Delaware tribes and Nations between 1825 and 1867. I'm a nutcase because you all will not own the fact that Haskell began as a cultural reprogramming prison where kids were taken by force by White Indian agents who treated them less than human from 1884 to the 1940's where they were forbidden from being culturally Indian by US law. I wish there was a way I could be like Dennis Leary in that Christmas movie with Kevin Spacey where he ties up the whole family and exposes them for what they are in their home. Your culture had the no dogs or Indians allowed signs in front of businesses. Your culture in colonial times said become a christian or we will kill you and in the Kansas Munsee's case they were murdered as christian converts anyway at Gnadenhutten in 1782 by settler militia in Ohio. Your culture will name places Osage City when the Osage people are two hundred miles to the south now or call towns Wetumpka or Wewoka when or Shubuta or Senatobia or Panola when those people are now mostly in Oklahoma. You will not own your bigotry or savagery and trollingly flip these onto the people whom you repeatedly offend over and over. If something is true it's worth fighting for. For example....even though the Four Dakota tribes who mostly used to call Minnesota home lost 38 warriors to the largest mass hanging in US history in 1862 the survivors honor these people to this day. We're not going anywhere. You will be reminded of your actions for a long long time just as our ancestors passed on the stories of tragedy and genocide to remind you we will do the same. We will always have to deal with people who are so clueless to their own history that they repeat it over and over to the detriment of the environment and the animals and the people who care. get used to it.

NotMeAgain 2 years, 6 months ago

I've got a great solutions about the east traffic. What if the people that work in KC should live in KC. and the people that drive from KC to work in Lawrence should find a job in KC. Man, that will cut the traffic way, way, way down. But of course game day traffic is always welcome!!!

asixbury 2 years, 6 months ago

If everyone that worked in KC but lived in Lawrence relocated, this town would lose half (if not more) of its population. There is a reason this city is known as a "bedroom community."

NotMeAgain 2 years, 6 months ago

I wonder if 192 millions dollars can fix all the pot holes in Lawrence and make bike lanes for the bike riders and add more sidewalks to certain areas of town. Or maybe add more teachers to the schools, where the class sizes won't be so big or help the homeless get off the streets downtown for good.

Armstrong 2 years, 6 months ago

Yes. It can also build the now way overpriced SLT

asixbury 2 years, 6 months ago

One problem, most of the money for the trafficway is Federal and can only be used for this project. Point is good, but not relevant to this situation.

NotMeAgain 2 years, 6 months ago

Once I heard a long time ago, that people of Lawrence do not want to become like Olathe Kansas. Has the people of Lawrence change their minds now?

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Tuschie - and yet nothing to enlighten us as to why you believe that sandy soil holds water and would be the substrate found in wetlands? This is pretty intuitive - its not going to happen and to claim that Dr. Boyd who make such a statement is ludicrous. Typical of many of your posts: you hear only what you want to hear and apparently that often isn't the same as what is being said. Kind of calls into question much of your oral history that you recite here. It also explains why you keep insisting that Baker University stole the land currently called the Baker Wetlands. You want to believe it, therefore it must be true! And of course, we all know that if you say it often enough you you will convince yourself it is true.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

you want to believe that you don't offend Native Americans over this road.... you know you do so you ignore and denigrate their comments much in the way Baker has for a decade or so now. you try surgically like a scientist to cleave out some talking point that allows you to not have to answer for your offensiveness.,,, I make you answer for your offensiveness. I heard your guy say this at ecm end of story. there were other people in attendance there. Again....because you are narrow minded or clueless. Simplely put for all of you deniers.....boarding school 101.......Colonel Richard Pratt is in charge of Comanche, Apache, Kiowa, and Cheyenne prisoners of war after the Plains Wars of the 1870's. These people are kept as captives at Fort Marion, Florida. While there Colonel Pratt initiated a military school schedule to drill the white into these people considered savages at the time. When some progress was seen he expanded the program and it first went to Hampton Insititute, an African American school in Virginia that exists to this day. Based on the expericences Pratt has the idea hatches Carlisle Indian School in 1879 when children from tribes everywhere in the US are brought there for education and assimilation. They are taken from their parents for years at a time to break up the cultural cohesion of tribes which leds to many kids going awol due to homesickeness, abuse, and racism. Within a decade Haskell, Chilocco, Tomah, Riverside, Chemawa, Genoa, Intermountain, and Phoenix to name some of the hundreds of BIA schools that existed. Illness and death occurred due to contact with white diseases, malnutrition, no rx, and abuse in the hundreds if not the thousands throughout this government Indian School system. In 1886 all vestiges of Indian culture were prohibited by law at these Indian schools. Holy men were jailed and families were starved to coerce them to the US policy. The funding for this came from congressional appropriations of Indian monies from accounts established by land sales. The US Government let protestant denominations do the dirty work of the US Government like the Methodists who ran Haskell. This environment was so intentionally culturally oppressive that at Chilocco the students went to the ends of the campus to escape it as stated in the book, "They Call It Prairie Light". The students at Haskell went to the wetlands to escape the oppression of the US Government and the Methodist church.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

The US Government and the US Treasury purchased the wetlands area between the 1890's and early 1900's in four parcels with Indian monies. This mechanism began with the Civilization Act of 1819 where tribes were promised education for their children in return for selling off tribal lands by treaty. In the early 20th century white overseers had Haskell students install tiles to drain the water to the Wakarusa to promote farming. This was white paternalism when immigrants tried to teach farming to cultures who'd farmed for centuries and introduced crops to immigrants. The diseases and deathes and abuses led to Carlisle Indian School being closed in 1918. In the 1920's the Merriam Report spoke to the ineffectiveness of boarding schools and in the 1920's the Johnson O' Malley or JOM funds as they're called in Indian Country were used to pay for Indian children to attend White public schools were racism didn't stop it. By 1934, the farming program at Haskell was transferred to Chilocco in Oklahoma. After World War II, US Indian policy changed for the worse. The Indian Claims Commission began after the war accepting claims by tribes against the US government for underpayment or outright theft of lands. Whereas the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 allowed tribes to stop the theft of Indian land by allotment and the re establishment of organized tribal government this post war period bought the HR 108 act where the US Congress decided to get out of the business of Indians by terminating and liquidating the federal recognition of over 300 tribal nations across the US

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

It was in this period of time that you all stole the wetlands as white bia officials sought to dispose of Indian lands while getting out of the business of Indians. Public Law 47 stated that no more than 20 acres of surplus Indian school land could be sold off to either local interests of schools. The schools, park, fire dept. and KDWP and KU parcels were in accordance with this law. I have a map of the land transfers in front of me that I've had for a decade now. Public Law 87 allowed 50 acres of land to be transferred at one time. Both laws were codified in Title Law 25 Chapter 17, Section 293a or the Federal Indian Surplus Lands Act of 1962. When you acquired said land in the 1950's white people at the BIA were giving it away without consulting the Indians they stole from. You have courts sanctifying your actions.....so what....courts protect the guilty. Imagine a Methodist College with no conscience I'm seeing one right now. You all are the beneficiaries of theft. It's much like the theft of Kiowa lands when the Kiowa leaders names were forged and hundreds of thousands of acres were stolen through forgery and in the SCOTUS case Lone Wolf V Hitchcock the theft was sanctified by the courts. You're not in the right here.....you just found the right state's rights Indian haters that's all. As I've witnessed the tragedies of desecretion at Port Angeles, Washington and Brantford, Ontario I'm waiting for Baker University to be added to this list of disrespect. I wrote all of this verbatim from memory as I've worked with this fight over a decade now. You probably couldn't write three paragraphs from memory idaho/

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

naw....I'll be saying I told you so as their half a$$ED GPR archaeological work doesn't pan out and the project is forced to be abandoned by the outrage over people warning and no one listening.....

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Tuschie, The difference between us here is that I don't have to prove I can or can not write three paragraphs from memory. It is sad that you think that doing so has proven anything. What it does show is that your memory is only 80% (give or take some %) correct. Your statement is full of errors, not to mention hot air! If you can't get this little history correct why would anyone expect you to be aware of exactly what Dr. Boyd said at ECM. Goes back to you saying it often enough, you believe it. What my point is, as if it makes any difference to you, is that - yes, you thought you heard Dr. Boyd say something that caught him in a lie. You despise him so he must have lied. You keep repeating it as thought you have perfect memory. You want him to be the devil and so therefore he MUST have lied. Is that how it works in your twisted, one-track mind?

tbaker 2 years, 6 months ago

When feelings of inadequacy / ego trauma reach a point where the person can no longer cope, a substitution pathology manifests itself where the patient demonstrates (channels) his narcissistic rage such that originates from another absent subject, in this case the long-dead indigenous people. Acting as a go-between, a mere conduit for the indignation, the subject can then feel relief from the ego trauma in the role of a champion for the substitution from a position of complete virtue.

In short, the only way Tuschy can feel better about himself is to feel as though he is coming to the rescue and righting the wrong of some long dead victim of this or that injustice. Key to understanding this disorder is the fact those being saved by this behavior MUST be absent, or the behavior affect does not produced the relief he seeks, because if the oppressed could speak for themselves his role in this reality vanishes.

Don’t be too hard on him Idaho

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

more white denial and still denying history.....how white of you.....and if you're comparing it to brockington I submitted like five of these over the commenting periods that along with thousands of submissions from native students, community people, elders, were ignored by white people and their courts. I love how people who lie play the victims of their lies in such a way...... we're not going away.....

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

I am appreciative of tbaker's explanation of our blogger's psychosis. I knew there had to be some explanation for the hatred and indignation he must be suffering with.

I also agree with Liberal in that I have not caused any harm to Native Americans and I sleep fine at night...sometimes even during the day, but I digress. I think that Dr. Boyd is a little more sensitive about all of this than I am. He has told me in the past that it concerns him that people don't understand the real reasons why the mitigation will be beneficial in the long run for the wetlands. And is MUCH better than south of the river. As he stated in the LJW article some time back, he is optimistic that as time goes on most people will come to appreciate what has taken place. I hope he is right, but I'm not sure that I can be that optimistic. He also assumes that this understanding is unlikely to take place on HINU campus, but that is their loss not his.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

So here we are close to the end of 235 blogs (41 individual bloggers in favor of the SLT, 15 opposed, 4 undetermined?). The real irony of this article is Chad Lawhorn titling it as "Wetland Advocates...". In reality, WPO, which is what the article focuses on, never really cared about "wetlands". They only cared about the geographical location and claiming that it is/was sacred. Just as Millicent stated - this was not an "environmental issue" it was an "ecojustice issue". What "ecojustice" implies in Pres. Clinton's executive order was that the wetlands were chosen as the route of the road to avoid majority members of society. That it was unfairly targeting minorities. When the alignment was on ""31st Street" there might have been an argument for that position, but it is now on "32nd Street", property owned by Baker University. If the opponents were concerned about access or noise they should have advocated for mitigation. But they didn't. They drew the line in the mud and said "NOT ANOTHER INCH". The lesson, just as in Congress, when you are unwilling to compromise, do not expect a favorable outcome....especially if you are in the minority.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

oh....I expect an executive order stopping five or six projects across the country that are offensive to the sacred sites of Native peoples. Depending on if we stay with the president we have or we get the used car salesman one could see a situation like what Richard Nixon of all people did when he returned Blue Lake to the Taos Pueblo people after Theodore Roosevelt advocated taking it in 1906. The Taos Pueblo people got their sacred site back and Nixon also reversed the practice of congressional tribal termination for the Menominee people in that time. President Obama just put a 4,800 acre archaeological site in Colorado under protected status. Why have I been talking with the President's Native American advisor recently via phone and e mail. Her tribe and a number of others in South Dakota had to combine their monies to buy back a Lakota sacred site area in the open market. She knows what's going on here as does the National Congress of American Indians in DC who you've offended many times. They see the racist garbage your supporters put on here. You've aggrevated Indians in high places. You will probably deal with the consequences in the near future.

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Some would say you are delusional...I guess I would call it bluffing. Oh, and by the way, I won't be holding my breath. It is laughable that you can't see that the places you are talking about are actual "Sacred Sites" with a couple of capital "S", whereas the Baker Wetlands are sacred ONLY to individual people and not associated with any recognized tribe. You are also talking about lands that were either for sale or publicly owned. They can not "be returned" by the President because they were legally granted to Baker University and were not, as you so libelously claim, stolen! Go ahead and tell yourself whatever you need to in order to keep the fantasy alive.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

libel really....do you really want to have to explain the circumstances of the 1950's in which you received those lands without the consent of native peoples? do you want title 25 chapter 7 section 293 a in your face in a court that isn't anti Indian?

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Libel? Really, Tuschie! Once the land was transferred to GSA and then to HEW, your Title 25 Chap 7 Section 293 had no legal standing. You are bluffing way beyond your abilities. And it didn't happen in 1950', it was 1968. Not as sharp as you think, are you?!?

Flap Doodle 2 years, 6 months ago

He's good for a lot of page views on this award-winning website.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

nice trio of white people who never answer directly for the actions of their ancestors and always blame the people they've offended..... The Allegheny Seneca people fought the Kinzua land project from 1937 to 1962 when the federal government ignored treaties from the 1790's and flooded the Cornplanter tract named for a late 18th century Seneca leader thus removing the Seneca people from the last reservation in Pennsylvania. These Seneca people were moved to the Allegheny Reserve near Salamanca, NY and in a twist of irony are looking to acquire the dam that flooded their lands and dismantle it in current times. You people have short memories and lots of offensive ignorance. We have long memories and you will be reminded of your sins for a long time to come. There are many other examples like the Seneca story I referenced that mirror the SLT. I guess people with short memories know nothing'of history. That's why they repeat it to the detriment of others.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

nice try liberal.....always looking for sellouts or friendlies.....I went to KU a number of years ago when the Military School at Fort Leavenworth sent military science professors to speak to the public. The terms they used for Iraq and Afghanistan were straight out of the Plains Indian Wars. Win over hearts and minds and look for the friendlies.....just like you liberal.......

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

I'm sure that at Choctaw functions he is recognized, and perhaps even respected. At HINU he would certainly be recognized by Dan Wildcat and Chuck Haines, but both probably roll their eyes when he comes.

Mike Ford 2 years, 6 months ago

actually Dr. Wildcat is a mentor of mine......Mr. Haines is a private man whom I respect. Nice of you to ignore the many examples throughout US-Native peoples history of people acting as brazen and disrespectful towards the environment and trying to flip it on the people that just won't let them do what they want and be quiet. Sorry.....I'm not quiet.....

IdahoWinds 2 years, 6 months ago

Hey Ben - I don't deny most of the examples that Tuschie brings up. My point is that they have NOTHING to do with this situation. I agree it is sacred to some individual Indians. What I am saying is that unless it is a tribal issue it has no relevance to U.S. Indian Law. There are no unmarked graves in the Baker Wetlands and so the road is not a threat to exposing them. Besides, the construction method does not have any way to expose any remains. So all of Tuschie's threats about closing down the project are strawmen. That's my point. He and Mike Caron (Bozo) are irrelevant now that the court case(s) is over. Move on to something they can actually have any influence on. Stop flailing at windmills!

ThingTwo 2 years, 5 months ago

why wont they just take that stupid 4-way stop at Louisiana and 31st down and put up a light then rip through Mary's lake? I hate that 4-way stop and it seems to never get brought up. Instead I have to read about settlers and how horrible the past was. If it were up to me I'd just put in a green light at Louisiana and 31st, cut through Mary's lake area and plow right through Allen Field house just cause I hate stuff that has to do with the past! stupid past!

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