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Archive for Saturday, March 24, 2012

Abortion rights advocates dispute so-called ‘wrongful birth’ provision in bill

March 24, 2012

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— Could a bill that the Kansas Legislature is considering protect a doctor who lies to a pregnant woman about the condition of her unborn child in order to prevent that woman from having an abortion?

Jennifer Dalven, director of the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project, and other abortion rights advocates, says that is exactly what the No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act would do.

The provision they are concerned about bans civil actions for a claim of so-called “wrongful life” or “wrongful birth.” They say this would legally shield a doctor who discovers a prenatal problem and withholds that information from the pregnant woman.

Dalven wrote in her blog that until she read House Bill 2598, she thought she had seen it all when it comes to proposals to restrict abortion.

“But as a mother who has been through those ultrasounds myself, the thought that my doctor could choose to withhold this information from me and take this decision away from me and my husband … well, let’s just say that it really touched a nerve,” she wrote.

But Rep. Lance Kinzer, R-Olathe, who is the main sponsor of the bill, said Dalven is incorrect.

Kinzer said language in the bill is consistent with Kansas case law and was put in the legislation because “courts change and some states are reaching different conclusions.”

He said doctors who lie to patients would still be liable for medical malpractice and possible violations of standards set by the Kansas Board of Healing Arts.

He said the purpose of the provision is to limit monetary damages. Nine states have approved similar legislation, and Arizona is considering the measure, too.

Recently an Oregon couple was awarded $2.9 million. They had said they would have terminated their pregnancy if they had known their daughter would have Down syndrome. They were continually told the child would not. The parents said they sought the damages to be able to provide for their child’s care.

The “wrongful birth” issue is one of many that has caused controversy in the 68-page bill.

A major dispute deals with medical residents training as obstetrics-gynecologists at the Kansas University Medical Center. Anti-abortion legislators don’t want them being trained in abortion procedures, but KU says the training must be offered to maintain accreditation. The training is done in facilities in Colorado, KU has said.

During a recent debate in the Senate, Sen. Laura Kelly, D-Topeka, said the training was necessary for emergency situations during pregnancies.

“If you don’t have doctors trained in that, you put women’s lives at risk,” she said.

The bill also requires physicians to inform women seeking an abortion about the risk of breast cancer. A large body of research says there is no link between abortion and breast cancer.

Comments

BornAgainAmerican 2 years ago

When will the Left Wing Lunatic Fringe call of their War on Babies?

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Jayhawk1958 2 years ago

Sounds to me that pork ribs wants to pay more in taxes if he believes in unwanted pregancies.

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pace 2 years ago

Spending tax payers money and legislative time to create funny law to restrict a woman's rights. Funny and unsound laws do a disservice to all law and rights.

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Jimo 2 years ago

A) This, and so many other recent anti-women proposals, are signs of the wholesale failure of the radical extremists to convince people of the merits of their belief. It is anti-democratic. It is a sign of weakness. It is of the same cloth as this fascistic Santorum-like approach of forcing others to accept a narrow and unpopular set of values. (And it builds the roadbed for political backlash.)

B) Query: would Jesus -- he who never uttered a syllable in support of this belief in the sanctity of the fetus -- lie? This is what these zealots are in the end claiming: Jesus would lie to save a life. I submit these "Christians" know not Christ, and in practice are anti-Christian in their heresy. A theology, unmoored from millennia of Christian doctrine, belief, and practice; an invented 21st century religion masquerading as an established religion.

C) I find it no accident that the loudest proponents of these laws are also the same persons who parrot Ayn Rand on other matters. Ayn Rand: the anti-Christian atheist who proudly proclaimed the Morality of Selfishness and mocked Christ and his gospel. The same Rand who is the foundation of the modern GOP.

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verity 2 years ago

Do we have another "phoenix" risen from the dead?

It seems that in the last few months the level of discourse on these boards has lowered considerably due in large part to a few "new" commenters.

Would it help if we just ignored, oh, let's see, maybe four or five (or more, I haven't bothered to count exactly) posters who only come on to annoy and upset people who want to actually have intelligent conversation?

I find myself skipping over large hunks of comments when I see certain names. I am adding another name to that list today.

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verity 2 years ago

If this whole issue was only about making abortion illegal, I might buy that it's not a war on women. The fact that it has come to include access to birth control for women and other health care issues that involve women and not men, forcing women to have invasive and unnecessary procedures which are meant only to harass and intimidate, and allowing and even forcing doctors to lie to woman makes it real clear exactly what it is.

You can ridicule us all you want, but we are angry and we're not going away quietly. Your ridicule only makes us stronger and more determined.

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voevoda 2 years ago

The State Legislature is planning to enact a law that requires doctors to lie to women patients, telling them that they will be a much greater risk for breast cancer if they have an abortion. That being the case, is it any surprise that the State Legislature wants to allow, even encourage, doctors to tell women additional lies. Such as , "no, your life isn't at risk if you carry through with this pregnancy." Maybe the State Legislature should enact analogous laws that pertain to men's reproductive capabilities. Such as requiring doctors to warn men who want Viagra about the increased dangers of heart attack and stroke. Or encouraging doctors not to tell men that they have prostate cancer, lest they decide on surgery that could result in impotence and keep them from being able to fulfill their natural role in reproduction. If you don't think such laws are right and proper, then you ought to rethink any support for the pending legislation concerning women's reproduction.

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Fretster 2 years ago

Can anyone here believe how much name calling that Pork_Ribs is doing? That's one poster that needs a long vacation

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Joe Hyde 2 years ago

Any Kansas physician who would deliberately lie to a pregnant woman about development problems threatening the fetus inside her body should be not simply convicted of malpractice but sentenced to 20 years in Lansing without chance of parole.

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Jayhawk1958 2 years ago

Force the mother to have the child and then it dies in poverty or lack of accesible healthcare. Yeah that makes sense!

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Richard Heckler 2 years ago

GOP Wants To Be Sure Women/Idiot Children Understand What Rape Is and Get Permission Slips For Pretty Much Everything

by Abby Zimet

The surreally awful news in the war on lady parts just keeps coming. An Idaho legislator wants women seeking an abortion to undergo an ultrasound and "counselling;" if she was raped, her doctor should make sure she was really raped and not just a participant in "normal relations in a marriage."

Alaska's State Rep. Alan Dick (really) wants women seeking an abortion to get an ultrasound and a written permission slip from the guy who, you know.

Arizona wants to make it nigh on impossible to get an abortion, but if you make it through all the legislative hurdles you should have to watch an abortion.

Then again, the author of the Arizona bill requiring women to prove to their bosses they are using birth control pills for non-slutty reasons, or get fired, is rewriting the bill because apparently, bewilderingly, some people got upset.

Funny: Why don't we feel better?

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2012/03/22-1

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Richard Heckler 2 years ago

Why in the world would anyone vote republican again? There are so many right wing fundamentalists hiding behind the name "republican" that it is simply not safe to vote republican.

Gov Sam Brownback and Kobach are but two examples.

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question4u 2 years ago

Doctor to Lawyer: "I'm in trouble. A few months ago I had four martinis at lunch. Later that day I mixed up some quadruple screen test results and told a woman that her unborn baby was healthy. In fact, the baby had spina bifuda."

Lawyer to Doctor: "Well, that's bad all right, but at least this is Kansas and they can't touch you in a civil court. Just tell them that you deliberately lied about the test results. Oh...and you might send a thank you note to Lance Kinzer."

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Cait McKnelly 2 years ago

To repeat something I wrote earlier: Mitt Romney's wife had a "preterm induced delivery" and the "baby died". This is a euphemistic way of saying she had an abortion. It was done to save her life. And yet she and Mitt will deny to their dying breath that it was what it was. Women in Kansas would not be given even that chance. "How can we control you? Let me count the ways." 1. We will take away your job if you use birth control. 2. We will take away your job if you don't use birth control and get pregnant. 3. If you get raped, tough. You shouldn't have been "wearing that", been "where you weren't supposed to be" or been "out in the world without a male escort". 4. If you get pregnant because of that rape, count it as a "blessing from God". Abort it? Oh no no no. This is your punishment for "wearing that", being "where you weren't supposed to be" or being "out in the world without a male escort" 5. If you're in an abusive marriage we won't lift a finger to help you. You are your husband's property and you should have made a better choice. 6. If you are unmarried/divorced and have children we will deny you and them access to health care, food and education. Your children are fatherless b*ds and you should have kept your legs shut and shouldn't have brought them into the world. If their father abandoned them then you shouldn't have made such a bad choice in a man. 7. If you have something wrong with your lady parts, don't talk to us about it. We don't want to hear about that icky stuff and we certainly don't intend to help you take care of it. Unless it's boobs. We like boobs. We especially like white, upper class lady like boobs. 8. No abortion. Not no way or no how. If it means you could die, tough. If you have the money to have a doctor that will tell you the truth and the money to travel, you can go to Oregon or California or one of those other atheistic, god forsaken states and have a "preterm induced delivery". But understand that's a privilege reserved to us. You can go die. What's one less woman to the world? 9. This is all "God's Plan". See, it says so right here in the Bible. Men are demi gods and women are the objects we own. Get used to it.

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Cait McKnelly 2 years ago

I was screaming about this provision in the bill practically from the moment of it's inception. http://www2.ljworld.com/weblogs/cait48/2012/feb/6/the-war-on-women-redux/ Not only was I upset about this provision, I was also upset about the lack of reporting on it. I'm guessing it's finally garnered enough national attention that the press can no longer afford to ignore it. By the way, this provision not only allows a layer of protection to a physician that lies about the health of the fetus, it also affords protection if that physician lies to a woman about her own health. As a nurse, I have cared for women that had life long disabilities from strokes suffered during pregnancy due to pre-eclampsia. The fact that a doctor could lie to a woman about that condition and get away with it is unconscionable. However, bottom line, these laws have nothing to do with fetal health or abortion, they have to do with controlling women.

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Brock Masters 2 years ago

A doctor, under no circumstance, should lie to their patient. Patients need honest accurate information to make informed decisions regarding their health and the health of their unborn child; even if it means aborting the child. While many may not agree with abortion it is legal and for argument's sake, let's say it is wrong, another wrong won't make it right.

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question4u 2 years ago

Even a woman who would never consider having an abortion, regardless of the circumstances, might be told by her doctor that her unborn child is healthy, when in fact he has severe myelomeningocele. In such a case, Lance Kinzer believes that the woman and her husband should not be allowed to sue the doctor, regardless of the trauma that they might experience when the baby is born and the doctor's lie becomes evident.

Lying to a patient constitutes malpractice, but Kinzer believes that some victims of lies should have no recourse in a civil court in Kansas. If you want justice, you'll have to plan ahead and have your baby in another state.

Is it any wonder that Kansas has a national reputation for backwardness?

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Michael LoBurgio 2 years ago

The law is, in sum, a mandate for forced pregnancy.

Teapublicans make me sick, the party of koch strongly defend individual freedom, but that freedom doesn’t include a woman’s right to decide her own healthcare needs.

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Michael LoBurgio 2 years ago

Ask Dr. Brownback... Women (and Men) Ask the Governor for Reproductive Health Advice

Kansas Governor Brownback may soon have the chance to sign into law one of if not the most onerous anti-choice, anti-woman bill in the nation, including explicit directives for doctors to lie to women, amnesty from medical malpractice for doctors who do lie to women, forced utrasounds, additional taxes on women and prohibitions of what insurance they can buy with their own money.

The law is, in sum, a mandate for forced pregnancy.

Now that the governor has decided to control everyone's reproductive and sexual health lives from his office, the the women and men of the state are seeking his advice. We've taken some screenshots in case the office of the governor, which you will remember once went after a little girl for asking questions he did not like, decides to scrub them all.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/03/15/dear-governor-brownback-women-and-men-ask-governor-advice

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Michael LoBurgio 2 years ago

Kansas to Pregnant Women: "A Little Lie from Your Doctor Won't Hurt You"

 We may not all agree about abortion, but we can all agree that these decisions ought to be made by a woman and her family, not a politician.

So, whether you are a man or a woman; whether you are already a parent or think you might become one in the future; whether you are blissfully pregnant or unhappily so, if you care about your right to make your own decisions,

I ask that you help get the word out. Share this blog on Facebook and Twitter. Send an email with this link to the President of the Kansas Senate. Tell the politicians all over the country to stop interfering in a family's personal and private decisions.

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2012/03/15/kansas-to-pregnant-women-little-lie-from-your-doctor-wont-hurt-you

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Christine Anderson 2 years ago

Oh my. I can feel my b/p skyrocketing. I do not believe a dr. should be allowed to lie to a patient. I believe in only non-violent forms of protest. My anger is over the Az. parents awarded nearly 3 mil because their daughter was not perfect. If they are so upset she was born with Downs, why not give her up for adoption? That way they would not have needed to worry about winning the lawsuit or not. Let me guess, someone will say the parents could not bear to give her up, as she is their child. Well, they would have terminated had they known she had Downs before birth, so why should they want her after? And yes, I have direct personal experience with having a child born with a severe, very cruel disease called autism. As he gets older, the more difficult it becomes for his teachers, for his dad whom he lives with, for his siblings, and for me, as I have to realize I was unable to care for him. Some of his behaviors are just plain hellish. Then there are the moments he smiles, gives hugs, and says, "I love you, Mommy". He recently, at the age of 13, learned to tie his shoes. I was 35 when I had him. During the pregnancy, I was exposed to mononucleosis. There is a nephew who has a much milder form of the disease. Had there been a test to determine he would struggle so in life, would knowing he is autistic give me the right to take his life? No. no, and no, in that order. Depending on how high or low functioning this girl is, she may one day look her parents in the eye and ask them, "Why didn't you want me the way I am? Why are you angry I was born?" What on earth will they say?

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