Opinion

Opinion

Limbaugh just part of broader trend

March 8, 2012

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If you think Rush Limbaugh is fatally wounded, think again.

By way of explanation, let me tell you how a certain subset of my readers will react to this column. Experience dictates that once I’ve taken my last swipe at their dear leader, Limbaugh’s followers will well ... rush to fire off angry emails in his defense. They will do this though there is no defense for what he did on his program last week — calling Georgetown University law student Sandra Fluke a “prostitute” and a “slut” after she testified in support of requiring health insurers to pay for women’s contraception.

His followers will declare, through some arcane “logic” peculiar to true believers, that “Rush” — it’s always “Rush,” as if they and the multimillionaire talk-show host were in the same bowling league — didn’t say what I thought he said, or didn’t mean what I thought he meant.

Point being, he reportedly reaches 15 million people a week who worship him robotically and sycophantically. So it is a fact of life that the advertisers he’s lost as a result of his diarrheic mouth — at least 10 at last count — will soon return, or be replaced.

Which is not to say Limbaugh was not stung by the defections. To the contrary, after several days of doubling down on his coarseness — at one point suggesting women whose contraception is paid for by insurance post sex videos online — he abruptly reversed himself as the advertiser revolt grew. “I sincerely apologize to Ms. Fluke for the insulting word choice,” he said in a statement.

The timing suggests he was sincere only in his concern for lost revenue. Two days later, Limbaugh elaborated on the air, saying that in fighting those dreaded liberals, “I became like them against my own instincts, against my own knowledge, against everything I know to be right and wrong, I descended to their level when I used those two words to describe Sandra Fluke.”

So even when it’s his fault, it’s not his fault. The liberals made him do it. But repugnant as he is, last week’s attack says less about Limbaugh than about the social and political atmosphere he has come to symbolize.

“Severely conservative,” said Mitt Romney some weeks ago in self-description. He’d been driven to Freudian candor by the need to “out-conservative” his opponents and thus, spoke more truly than he perhaps intended. So “severe” are conservatives now that Ronald Reagan would not know them. Nor, given that he raised taxes and was not above compromising with opponents, would they know him.

That’s because what now passes for conservatism is less an ideology than an excuse for ideological rigidity, extreme language, shameless (indeed, proud) ignorance and situational ethics wherein the only thing that matters is victory and any tactic — fear, misogyny, bigotry, lies — is acceptable so long as it advances that goal.

Spare me the false moral equivalence of noting that liberals are sometimes guilty of the same crimes. Duh. Of course they are. But the frequency and intensity on the left do not begin to compare with that of the right.

Think the late Andrew Breitbart sliming Shirley Sherrod. Think James O’Keefe dressing like Superfly in his campaign of video mendacity. Think Fox “News” lying abed with birthers. Think Sarah Palin reading off her palm. Think Herman Cain trying to answer a question on foreign policy. Think Rick Perry trying to remember the third agency. And think a presidential primary that’s raised such a stench many party elders are holding their noses.

The GOP has been so overrun by extremists that “moderate” is now an epithet and the moderate Republican Olympia Snowe just ran for the door. Sacking Rush Limbaugh would not fix that. The problem is not a conservative talk show host, but conservatism itself as presently construed.

It has become a landfill. Limbaugh is just a seagull circling the top.

— Leonard Pitts Jr. is a columnist for the Miami Herald. He chats with readers from noon to 1 p.m. CST each Wednesday on www.MiamiHerald.com.

Comments

FalseHopeNoChange 3 years, 5 months ago

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grammaddy 3 years, 5 months ago

vice versa isn't pretty either. I think you just proved his point.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

Rush is the latest target of the Alinsky treatment. Who will be the next person to receive the selective outrage of the eternally outraged disappointed progressives? Stay tuned.

voevoda 3 years, 5 months ago

The only followers of Alinsky nowadays are Teapartiers.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 5 months ago

Not one word about Bill Maher, the worst misogynist on television today.

Of course, he's one of Pitts's fellow deluded leftists, so he gets a free pass.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 5 months ago

Neither of you has refuted Pitts's gross hypocrisy in very conspicuously omitting Maher from this piece.

The again, perhaps you're both misogynists too.

asixbury 3 years, 5 months ago

Bill Maher was not the topic of this letter, since he was not the one to recently make a tremendous fool of himself on the national level. I'm sure he'll make a fool of himself at some point in the near future, then we can comment on him.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

Nobody is saying Rush had no right to say what he did.

But anyone who wants to state their opinion on what he said has just as much right to free speech, dontcha think?

cato_the_elder 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes, but the point is that I have yet to see any leftist twit on this forum acknowledge that Maher is a vile misogynist, which he clearly is.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

He certainly uses vile language, but I see no evidence that he's a misogynist.

Rush, however, is a completely different story, no matter how badly you want to find a mirror image for him on the left.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

Criticism of the air-headed barbie dolls that predominate on the right does not equal misogyny.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

No, it wouldn't-- take Al Sharpton-- while I don't think he's exactly an airhead, he's done plenty of boneheaded stuff. Criticizing him for those things does not equal racism.

cato_the_elder 3 years, 5 months ago

If you "see no evidence" that Maher is a misogynist, then you can join the ranks of those who see no evidence that Louis Farrakhan is a racist.

asixbury 3 years, 5 months ago

Do you consider all leftists twits? That seems a pretty vile statement to me.

Jimo 3 years, 5 months ago

This insight from the discerning genius who said "The notion that the Bush administration is responsible for the state of our economy when Obama took over is the biggest lie promulgated by the Hard Left in my lifetime."

cato_the_elder 3 years, 5 months ago

The above comment was brought to you by non-discerning leftist Jimo, who has previously said on this forum, "The only feudalism we have in America is the concentration of the nation's wealth in the hands of a few."

ThePilgrim 3 years, 5 months ago

"But the frequency and intensity on the left do not begin to compare with that of the right."

What???!!! Liberals frequently refer to the Tea Party as "teabaggers", a sexual slur if there ever was one.

But also remember that Rush is a good reason that Obama is in the White House. By using "Operation Chaos" to encourage Repubs to temporarily register as Dems, to vote for Obama in the 2008 primaries, to stop Hillary from clinching the nomination, and dragging out the primaries. After all, there was no way that Obama could win, was there?

Scott Drummond 3 years, 5 months ago

In the reality based world, Operation Chaos was the exact opposite of how it is reported. "Dittoheads" were encouraged by the their leader to cross lines to vote for Clinton. The effort is widely understood to be a completely ineffective failure.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Pilgrim, I didn't even know what that word meant, until the Tea Party people were offended by it, and I'm over 50 years old, and didn't lead a sheltered life. So what does that say about the people in the Tea Party? Pretty experienced if you ask me.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Seriously? What does that ( "that" being the intelligence to understand a disgusting slur another group has adopted for them) say about the people in the Tea Party? As if their coherence is the REAL problem w/ that term? Briiiilliant!

Don't look now, but you've channeled your inner Limbaugh. Nice.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

The Tea Party as a "movement" has been shown to be largely a fraud perpetrated by Fox News and the Koch Bros and a few other loudmouths like Rush.

headdoctor 3 years, 5 months ago

Your to funny pilgrim. The teabaggers came up with their own name. Trying for some historical tie to the Boston Tea Party. It was their own ignorance picking a name that had a sexual meaning. Pretty fitting for them and now their stuck with it. lmao

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Early leader for DPOD. And on this string, that's saying something.

MarcoPogo 3 years, 5 months ago

Who told you that "teabagging" is a gay slur? It's not.

headdoctor 3 years, 5 months ago

I typed it that way for a reason NavyVet. I wanted to make sure all the poorly educated angry Republican supporters would be able to understand what I was saying. It would seem your attempt at being a grammar nazi is all you have to offer. The liberals didn't name the movement or turn the name bad. It already had meaning on the street. The republicans didn't think this one all the way through. Typical short sightedness which is all to common in politics.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

And you just keep digging deeper and deeper..........

Could be a runaway victory!

Jim Johnson 3 years, 5 months ago

Why don't you try comunicating with the "poorly educated" liberals first? Their are a lot more of them, that's what your party is all about anymore. Even the ones that are educated are "poorly educated".

bad_dog 3 years, 5 months ago

Why don't you try comunicating with the "poorly educated" liberals first? Their are a lot more of them, that's what your party is all about anymore. Even the ones that are educated are "poorly educated".

Umm, don't you mean "There" rather than "Their"?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

Let's take a look at your supposed "mirror images."

Olberman was talking about public statements made by a public figure running for elective office, and rightly (if perhaps too colorfully for your tastes) taking him to task for them.

In the second one, Maher is talking about a professional big mouth, demagogue and hypocritical drug addict, Rush Limbaugh, not a law student generally not in the public eye who has merely been trying to gain access to an important aspect of healthcare for her and her fellow female classmates at Georgetown.

The third one is about another (now dead) professional big mouth and demagogue with a penchant for lying, Breitbart, and written by an anonymous blogger, not a well-recognized (or paid) voice of the left.

And the fourth one is another anonymous blogger and it isn't even addressed at anyone in particular, and doesn't say anything more inflammatory than can be seen on this award-winning website (by self-proclaimed conservatives) any day of the week.

Sorry, but your apples and oranges comparison is a fail.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Not to mention that if the Democrat party chairman called Maher "just an entertainer", then he wouldn't be forced to apologize. Rush wants to be a major player in the Republican Party politics, but when he does something stupid, he wants to hide behind "disc jockey".

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

The "tea bag" term came from a call to action by the Tea Party. The idea was to send tea bags to the White House as a form of protest on Tax day. One of the sayings that was a part of this call to action was "Tea bag the liberal dems before they tea bag you."

http://www.zazzle.com/tea_bag_the_liberal_dems_before_they_tea_bag_you_tshirt-235381317448019770

http://tinyurl.com/7ttm6nu http://tinyurl.com/734hmef http://tinyurl.com/7bxnbq4

I have to wonder, due to their phrasing, if some of the Tea Party people didn't already know that "tea bag" had a sexual connotation.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

That's exactly what happened.

When they found out, they were embarrassed and changed the name.

geekin_topekan 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually, his listeners are the seagulls.

There, fixed it for you.

lunacydetector 3 years, 5 months ago

what's a so-called good Catholic girl to do if she can't get her contraceptives paid for by the citizens? has she been kicked out of georgetown yet?

asixbury 3 years, 5 months ago

It's not being paid by the citizens, and it is not free under this mandate. It is just required that insurance companies (which most employees pay for coverage) have to cover it.

KSWingman 3 years, 5 months ago

You're right, it won't be free. TANSTAAFL.

Requiring insurance companies to cover any previously-denied service without deductibles or copayments means that 100% of the cost will be distributed among all policyholders in the form of higher premiums.

In the case of religiously-affiliated insurance carriers (FidelisCare, or Aid Association for Lutherans, for example), policyholders will be forced to subsidize elective medications or procedures they believe to be immoral.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually, requiring contraceptive coverage does not increase health care premiums.

FEHB found that out in 1999 when contraceptive coverage was required for all Federal employees.

KSWingman 3 years, 5 months ago

Are you sure? Didn't monthly premiums go up in 2001, the first policy year after the change? What was the increase in premiums compared to the increase in the consumer price index from 1999 to 2001?

Merely adding new drugs to the formulary (list of medications a plan will pay for) may or may not increase premiums, depending on the insurance company's cost. Deductibles and copays may reduce the bite to the insurer to the point where premiums wouldn't go up. But if the insurer can't reduce its share of the cost through copayments, it will pass on the cost to the entire pool.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

Premiums did not go up due to contraceptive coverage & 2000 was the first policy year after the change.

http://ftp.resource.org/gpo.gov/hearings/107s/75167.txt

"In 1999, passage of Public Law 105-277, required FEHB plans to cover the full range of FDA-approved prescriptions and devices for birth control. Implementation of the law occurred smoothly and without incident. Because 1999 premiums had already been set when contraceptive coverage was mandated, the increased coverage had no effect on 1999 premiums. We told health carriers we would adjust 1999 premiums, if needed, during the 2000 premium reconciliation process. However, there was no need to do so since there was no cost increase due to contraceptive coverage."

And given that providing birth control is much cheaper than paying for prenatal care, birth and postnatal care (and don't forget about the cost of pregnancy complications), it is a bit silly to claim that the insurers can't reduce their share of the cost.

KSWingman 3 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for the citation. It was good to read a primary source.

According to your citation, FEHB was prepared to increase premiums to cover the increased cost of adding new medications to the formulary. As I said above, the cost to insurers of increasing coverage of medications or services would be reduced by deductibles and/or copayments. In this case, beneficiaries paid copays, and the insurer didn't raise premiums.

The argument that providing contraception is a net money-saver for insurers relies on one important point- that prenatal care, birth care, inpatient services, and retail pharmacy would be paid for from the same pot of money (not just the same company).

But all of this is different from the current subject of discussion, in which the beneficiaries would pay no deductibles or copays for contraceptives. All costs are assumed by the insurer, at least at the front end. The insurance companies, having the primary responsibility to their shareholders, must then raise premiums to cover the cost.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

You do understand that under the HealthCare Reform act that existing plans that already provide coverage for contraception are exempt from the mandate to provide them at their cost?

That means that most are not going to see any changes in their coverage or their costs.

The mandate only covers employer-provided health insurance that currently do not provide contraceptive coverage.

From what I have been reading, 80% of employer-provided health care plans already provide contraception coverage (and it is usually do to the cost savings that employer sees), so what this means it that the mandate is only affecting 20% of all employer-provided health insurance.

This means we are not going to see an overall increase in health insurance premiums which is what people who are opposed to the mandate are arguing.

Only the folks who are in that 20% will be affected and previous examples show that premiums do not increase when coverage is added.

I understand what you say about cost-sharing with deductibles and co-pays but nothing indicates that either of those increased due to the increased coverage. Those would exist whether it was birth control covered or if they were required to cover aspirin.

All those opposed to this part of the health care mandate keep telling everyone that this is going to increases everyone's premiums and there is nothing to indicate that this is going to happen. Absolutely no proof has been presented of this.

And to make the argument that something might or might not happen so we shouldn't go through with the action is just plain old short-sighted thinking.

Way too long has this short-sighted, short-term thinking been accepted. No one wants to look at long-term benefits or consequences. It is all about the here and now anymore.

KSWingman 3 years, 5 months ago

"You do understand that under the HealthCare Reform act that existing plans that already provide coverage for contraception are exempt from the mandate to provide them at their cost?"

Right, but the subject here is the Rush Limbaugh/Sandra Fluke mess, which at its heart is about insurance companies and religious self-insurers that don't currently provide coverage for contraception.

rtwngr 3 years, 5 months ago

Limbaugh should have just called her a stupid, freeloading mooch and left it at that. Leonard Pitts, Jr. is a bigot who sees everything though a "everybody hates black people" prism.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

So, it really doesn't matter if they're lying-out-their-backside demagogues, as long as they piss off liberals.

You've summed up quite well your entire tenure on this forum.

headdoctor 3 years, 5 months ago

The problem BAA isn't your political stance. It is the content and tactics in which you engage your debate. A big hint is, not everyone who disagrees with you is a Left Extremist, Secular Progressive or Liberal Nut Job. I don't suppose it has occurred to you that a poster is disagreeing with you on principal and not from a political position of us against them.

headdoctor 3 years, 5 months ago

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asixbury 3 years, 5 months ago

+1 We should all ignore BAA, anyways, because most of his posts are nonsense, meant only to instigate. By responding, like I am now, we are falling for his trap. Ignore him and he just might go away!

asixbury 3 years, 5 months ago

Didn't mean anything personally, but it did seem like you were instigating some responders. I can see the entertainment value in doing that, though, too.

voevoda 3 years, 5 months ago

The only ones who admire Alinsky now are the Tea Party types: "Tea Party leader and "the co-founder of Top Conservatives on Twitter" Michael Patrick Leahy has written an entire book based off of Alinsky's "shocking" work, deftly entitled: Rules for Conservative Radicals: Lessons from Saul Alinsky[!] the Tea Party Movement and the Apostle Paul in the Age of Collaborative Technologies." http://mediamatters.org/blog/201002010041

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

BAA-- you know absolutely nothing about Saul Alinsky. All you know is that you've heard his name used as a derogative term in the wackosphere, and good sheep that you are, you bleat right along with the other sheep.

http://billmoyers.com/segment/bill-moyers-essay-the-real-saul-alinsky/

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

It's notable that none of the conservatives can discuss his actions directly.

Instead we have deflection and diversion.

What do you think of what he said, and how he said it?

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

jafs, I hope you like the sound of crickets, because that's what you get when you ask a direct question of the conservatives on this board.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually, to his credit, math did respond, and did so honestly, and pretty civilly.

uncleandyt 3 years, 5 months ago

When will this socialism kick in ? It's sure comin' slow.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Ok.

So you have no problem with him saying it, you just think he shouldn't have said it on the air.

Is that right?

Thanks for answering, by the way.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for answering.

I find it interesting that you don't have a problem with his attitude, word choices, and huge gaps in logic.

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

Using "Alinsky" continually in relation to President Obama is appealing to the Pavlov's Dogs' concept. Just repeat and repeat and people will eventually think it's true.

oldvet 3 years, 5 months ago

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jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

"That’s because what now passes for conservatism is less an ideology than an excuse for ideological rigidity, extreme language, shameless (indeed, proud) ignorance and situational ethics wherein the only thing that matters is victory and any tactic — fear, misogyny, bigotry, lies — is acceptable so long as it advances that goal."

Truth. Said something along the same lines just the other day.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Jokes on you, Vet. What vertigo said.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

This is hilarious. People on here who disagree with where the conservative movement is going are now liberals, secular-progressives, hard left, far left, followers of Alinsky, etc.

It is so asinine. This "you are either with me or against me" mentality is so short-sighted and rarely a winning strategy. Its entire purpose is to alienate.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

I'm still waiting for some direct discussion of Limbaugh's comments.

But I won't hold my breath.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

See math's comment above.

I like to discuss things directly, and when a major voice for the right like Limbaugh says the things he said, I'd like to know what those on the right think of it.

Instead of being deflected/diverted to other topics.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

That should pretty much answer you right there. There's nothing to discuss. Now, if you're looking to get into a nasty back and forth, that might come your way, but any attempt to justify Limbaugh's comments are only going to be fuel for a fire. Why seek such bile out?

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually, he's responded twice, without engaging in that sort of thing, which is what I hoped might happen.

And, why do you assume that conservatives want to "justify" the comments? I would hope that many would find them objectionable.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

"which is what I hoped might happen."

Please. Who do you think you're kidding? Three separate casts into the pond, with the last baiting "But I won't hold my breath"?

And I'm not assuming anything. Most conservatives do find the issue objectionable; the ones that don't are the ones most likely to respond and justify.

I'm not assuming anything.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

As I said, I wanted to hear from conservatives about Limbaugh's behavior, and I did so, in a perfectly civil manner, which is what I prefer.

If you think that I prefer to stir up insulting and name calling behavior, you haven't been reading my posts very well.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Whatever. I read the exchange between you and math; WOW! great "discussion." You gleaned oodles of useful info there.
And I read and comprehend very well, thank you. I'm sure the "hold my breath" comment was meant w/ the utmost respect.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

You seem to be exhibiting more uncivil attitudes here than math, for what that's worth.

I challenged conservatives to deal with Limbaugh's behavior directly and honestly.

If this were reversed, with a liberal commentator who said equally distasteful things, I'd challenge liberals to deal with it equally directly and honestly.

The "hold my breath" comment was made to signify that I didn't really expect anybody to respond - I was trying to highlight that fact.

To his credit math responded directly and honestly, as far as I can tell. So far, he's the only one to do so.

I would like conservatives who find Limbaugh's behavior objectionable to say that directly, and without equivocation, if they can.

What exactly is your objection to that?

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

"You seem to be exhibiting more uncivil attitudes here than math, for what that's worth."

Bupkiss. That's what that's worth.

"I challenged conservatives to deal with Limbaugh's behavior directly and honestly."

Whatever, jafs. I'd contend you were looking for the foaming-at-the-mouthers to take the bait, because, as it's been noted by more than myself, there's NOTHING to "discuss" on the matter. As your "discussion" with math proved.

" I would like conservatives who find Limbaugh's behavior objectionable to say that directly, and without equivocation, if they can."

Why? To what end? What's it matter? Any reasonable person can hold nothing but contempt for the man's comments. Anyone that doesn't is only going to end up being the kind of person you can't have a discussion with. I assume you're smart enough to realize this. And if that's true then the only purpose for your search for response was to illicit the worst possible response.

"The "hold my breath" comment was made to signify that I didn't really expect anybody to respond"

Uh huh, sure it was.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Ok.

I'm going to have to remind you that I won't engage with people who insult me, after I've given them numerous chances to stop.

If you continue, I'll ask you to stop responding to my posts.

You are simply wrong in your contention - I have no interest in that sort of thing, which anybody who's read my posts at all should know. I don't engage in it, and I don't engage with others who do so with me.

It matters to me because we're in such a polarized atmosphere politically that partisan loyalty seems to mean more than consistently applied standards and ethics, and I find that objectionable.

So I challenge people to look beyond that, and apply standards more consistently, on both sides of the aisle.

You may think that's a waste of time, and that's your opinion, but I don't - in fact, I think if we don't start moving towards that, we're going to get more and more polarized, and that's a negative thing.

In fact, that's one of the reasons I make a point of discussing things on here with people I disagree with, and trying to do it with respect and courtesy, rather than only talking with people I agree with, or insulting those I disagree with. I think we need to be able to discuss things, disagree, argue, etc. without getting personal.

I'm doing that right now with you, despite your comments - but I won't continue forever.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

And again I'll remind you to to stop playing the offended-slighted one. I've read plenty of your posts and I know where you're coming from. While you're more rational than most, spare me that you never roil the waters.
Seeking opinion from those you disagree with is a good thing generally, but we're talking about this particular issue. And for the last time, there's nothing to discuss for the reasons I'm tired of repeating. It's too bad you're offended because I dispute your contentions nor believe there's anything substantial to gain from "discussing" with the opposition whether Limbaugh was in the wrong. You already stated you believed most conservatives would be appalled by his comments........so what's left to discuss?? Nothing; unless you're seeking reactions from the extreme, that is.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

I don't have any problem with challenging my ideas.

I have a big problem when it gets personal.

If you can refrain from that, I'll be glad to continue talking with you.

You have your opinion on the subject, and I have mine - for some reason, you seem to want to make me agree with you, which I don't.

I absolutely challenge people in a variety of ways, but I make a serious effort to avoid making it personal.

Also, I never said I thought "most" conservatives would be appalled - I said that I would hope many are, and I'd like them to say so.

Another reason for holding up the mirror is to point out the great silence of most conservatives on this issue.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

"I have a big problem when it gets personal."

I suggest you get a thicker skin. I didn't get personal. Sarcastic? Absolutely.

"for some reason, you seem to want to make me agree with you,"

Isn't that the goal of an argument?

"I said that I would hope many are, and I'd like them to say so."

Fine. Pointless, but fine. LarryNative summed it up nicely below.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

If you continue in that vein, employing the attitudes and sarcasm that you seem to like, suggesting I get a thicker skin, I'll just ask you to stop responding.

It's your choice.

I choose not to talk with people who can't treat me with the basic respect I grant others.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

Jaywalker's general state of insecurity requires that he (attempts to) tear others down in order to pump himself up.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Says the Resident Sniper and one of the least respectful posters on these strings.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

So I guess you now expect me to say something about my being rubber and your being glue.

OK, your turn.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Feel free, jafs. You throw that "stop responding" around like it's supposed to be some great loss. There are hundreds of posters here and you interact with the worst of the worst daily, but you can't handle sarcasm?

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

"even if there is a subtle undertone in his posts and thinly veiled agendas. Why would you bother to point it out?"

Because of the undertone and thinly veiled agendas. But mostly because jafs likes to pretend she (I think jafs is female, just an educated guess) doesn't do such, and I don't care for the hypocrisy or the holier than thou chastisements shrouded therein.

" you seem to think participation should be limited to only a few who seem to spend the whole day every day developing arguments and composing logical, grammar perfect posts."

Don't think that at all actually, not sure why you sense that, but there must be something there if you do. In this case, I just don't see any point in jafs seeking out "opinion" from conservatives over this issue unless it's to start a big to-do. Is that why you formed that opinion?

Also, I certainly hope I haven't been a member of the grammar police. Besides critiquing Yeoman's use of "looser", I can't remember the last time I've corrected another.

Sometimes you don't seem to recognize your own trolling tendencies (or maybe you do?)

Sure I do, at least in instances like this. And you're right; I think it's safe to say we all do it from time to time. I will aver that posters like jafs tend to bring it out in me and others; she'll post the same thing over and over despite logical rebuttal and has a "last word" fetish just to make it a little worse. Gets under my skin and I tend to scratch that itch.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Not at all. And I didn't realize that's how jafs preferred it, I must be wrong. My bad.

Jimo 3 years, 5 months ago

If by "one of their mouthpieces" you mean the Leader of the Republican Party and self-appointed enforcer to Party orthodoxy. (V. Lenin could have learned a few lessons from Rush!)

There is no leftish mirror to Limbaugh both in fact or by nature.

What's to discuss? How about the misogyny of today's GOP - unrepentant and rampant?

Mike Ford 3 years, 5 months ago

I have a relative who drives a semi around listening to the limbaugh nonsense like he's a programmed lemming starting discussions at family gatherings, being ignored, and stating total nonsense like a couple of posters on here. It's so amazing that a fired KC Royals employee can inspire the devotion of little thinking people everywhere....not jealous just laughing and feeling sorry for those banished to an am radio education of hate and misinformation.

JackMcKee 3 years, 5 months ago

If Rush didn't occasionally says something completely stupid I wouldn't even know he existed.

jayhawklawrence 3 years, 5 months ago

I find it interesting that the right wingers on here focus on Maher.

Personally, I find Maher to be a disgusting person and even though he considers himself a comedian, I do not think he is funny at all.

Ironically, Limbaugh is not a comedian but he is oftentimes very funny. But you cannot laugh for long when you consider that Limbaugh has become a gazillionaire by manipulating naivete Americans with his brand of propaganda and lies.

JackMcKee 3 years, 5 months ago

you have confused the two. Maher is frequently funny. Limbaugh has and always will be just mean.

oldvet 3 years, 5 months ago

And nobody in the media criticized any of those comments by the far-left media...

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Or libel, defamation, etc.

I wonder if she'll sue him?

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Doubtful.

Public figures have a higher threshold to meet for that sort of suit than private individuals.

beatrice 3 years, 5 months ago

She is making apparences in the media only AFTER being slandered by Rush Limbaugh.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Maybe, a little bit.

But, there's still a big difference between somebody who runs for VP, and somebody who testifies before Congress as a private individual.

I think that the higher standards apply to the former, but not to the latter, legally. Otherwise anybody who ever said anything publicly would be fair target for this sort of thing.

By the way, what do you think of Limbaugh's comments?

beatrice 3 years, 5 months ago

So if your daughter was asked to speak to Congress about something in which she believed, she wouldn't?

Why not? If she did and people called her the things Limbaugh said, it would just be "inappropriate"?

Wow.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

You know, BornAgainAmerican, you're going to have to hurry up and tell us all how this connects to Kevin Bacon or you're going to lose the game.

Richard Payton 3 years, 5 months ago

Rush is another shock jock like Howard Stern that likes to watch young women. Both remain on the air and both seem to like attention. It's time for men and women to stop listening so ratings dive. Rush Limbaugh needs therapy.

uncleandyt 3 years, 5 months ago

Good news - AM radio ratings are imaginary and inflated.

JackMcKee 3 years, 5 months ago

the right attached itself at the hip to the anti-science, anti-government, theocratic, bourgeois. Thus the cause of it's decline. Limboh is just one cog in that dysfunctional machine.

JackMcKee 3 years, 5 months ago

Thus the reason I never bet in college bball.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

Wherever Richard Nixon's soul is today, it must be smiling at the masterful way the current regime is managing its enemies list.

ivalueamerica 3 years, 5 months ago

I remember when Limbaugh was like Anne Coulter or Al Sharpton, the lunatic fringe, but now he seems to well represent the party mainstream.

oldbaldguy 3 years, 5 months ago

We have always had this commentary. Now it is 24/7. Anybody ever read what was passing for political discourse throughout the 19th century in our homeland? This is all parr for the course and always shall be. We are probably better for it instead of killing each other over politics.

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 5 months ago

Limbaugh is an entertainer, first and foremost.

I am serous when I say that I thought what he said was very funny. He exaggerates for comic sake to please his listening audience. If you watch the video of him saying these things, especially the bit about posting the video, he is almost cracking up.

The problem is that he is the political mainstream in the republican party. His comedy is taken as GOP policy, and no one in the GOP will criticize him.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Careful. The Republican chairman had to apologize for calling him just an entertainer.

uncleandyt 3 years, 5 months ago

Limbaugh is an agitator. His job is to rile up anyone who listens.

patkindle 3 years, 5 months ago

rush is a billionaire, what he said was stupid and in poor taste and i guess he thought it was cute but he did get his point across about rewarding women for having sex plus he really doenst care what the looney liberals of lawrence think

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

"Why should we pay for her choices any more than you should pay for Bob Doles ED medicine."

But we do have to pay for his ED medicine.

kugrad 3 years, 5 months ago

She didn't ask taxpayers to pay it. She asked for her insurance carrier to cover it. No tax dollars, rather earned dollars would pay for it

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

You still fail to make any convincing argument about why birth control shouldn't be covered under prescription plans, other than your own narrow prejudices.

BTW, 36 months of law school times $50 is about $1800-- hardly a small amount if you're on a very small, fixed budget. And the link to PP doesn't give any indication of who that would apply to under what circumstances.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

I know many virgins who take birth control pills to regulate their periods. What choice are you talking about here? Just stay home and suffer when you have a period?

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

What danger is there to having irregular periods?

I take it you're a male or have never had irregular or heavy periods. Do you know what it's like to bleed profusely for 10-14 days every three weeks or sometimes all the time for months? To not be able to make plans, to be able to go camping or swimming or ever be very far from a bathroom? To bleed through in half an hour and have blood stains on your clothes, bed sheets, carpet? To stand up and feel the blood running down your legs? To spend hours in the shower watching your blood swirl down the drain. To have cramps so bad that you couldn't stand up or walk? To have to miss classes and work because of it? Do you know what losing all that blood does to your body? Well, I do.

And you tell me this is my fault? So share with me the real root of my problem. Pray tell how changing my lifestyle would have fixed this. I'm too GD lazy to do what? Just walk it off?

Yes, birth control pills/hormone therapy have side effects. I finally got a total hysterectomy and that solved the problem quite well---and my insurance paid for it. Is that the answer then? Do you think insurance should pay for hysterectomies to solve the problem or should women pay for that also?

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

Using birth control to treat medical conditions are not lifestyle choices. It is a false analogy for people to compare those things.

PCOS, endometriosis, PMDD, and all other medical conditions are not treatable by making changes to your lifestyle.

voevoda 3 years, 5 months ago

Why do you assume that all women can use the cheapest form of birth control? Many women cannot tolerate those older pharmaceuticals, and need newer, more expensive ones.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually, you linked just to birth control pills, which are not the most expensive according to Planned Parenthood.

And birth control pills are not the best birth control for all women.

Why is there this idea that there is just one standard of birth control that any woman can take?

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Not everybody can afford that, that seems obvious.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

You are making several assumptions here.

First, that the people making these choices are choosing coffee over sex and; second, that the people affected by this are able to afford Starbucks coffee.

What may be affordable to you is not what is always affordable to others.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

The full text of the USA Today article is here.

It actually goes on to talk about different types of birth control & their costs. It also talks about why there is no one method that is standard for all women.

http://tinyurl.com/87xn9w3

uncleandyt 3 years, 5 months ago

This is not a question of "we" having to pay for her contraception. She still pays for her own insurance. The question is what will be covered. You are off the hook that was never there.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

So I assume you are upset that Viagra is covered by insurance too. Right?

jonas_opines 3 years, 5 months ago

Watching folks wail about free speech while clearly lacking comprehension about what the hell that even means is highly entertaining.

Hint: It doesn't mean that you get to say whatever you want all the time and expect there to not be any consequences in response to what you have said.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Been trying to drive that exact point home for some time now.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 3 years, 5 months ago

The really frighting element here iis that there even exists a market for the drivel and sludge that pours out of the open sewer that is Rush Limbaugh. His ardent supporters in the Michigan militia, the Klan, the American Nazi party and the religious kookerama love this guy, he is their response to all that is civil and logical in rational discourse.

The real problem is not Limbaugh, he has made his mark. It is in not knowing just who around you is among his cadre of loosers who continue to advocate the destruction of the U.S. government and of the lawfully elected President of the United States. They just cannot stomach the fact that a black person was elected to the White House, no matter how much they deny their devotion to racism and other extremist virtuues.

patkindle 3 years, 5 months ago

“An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary

to tell more than he knows.”

fits rush, and most folks in lawrence ks

tbaker 3 years, 5 months ago

I’ve never seen a seagull circling a landfill get so much attention. If Mr. Limbaugh is nothing more than that, why all the buzz? If the story was about nothing more than a media personality behaving in an offensive and ill-mannered way, how is that anything more than a foot note in the news given today’s standard of public discourse? Such occurrences are commonplace and far more egregious examples abound.

He should not have used those words to describe Miss Fluck. It was wrong, and he is paying the price for it, literally. Aside from the obvious mistake of using such base, vulgar language in a public forum, he totally blew it politically. Up until that point in his monologue, he was doing a splendid job of driving home the larger point about the entitlement mentality that is so prevalent in our country today. He didn't need to use the words he did. Anyone paying attention could have very easily drew the conclusion themselves. Now the important part of this story is largely lost, drowned-out by the howling about his choice of words.

It’s unfortunate people are not as eager to howl about our country being turned into a giant assisted living facility with the same enthusiasm they display towards the boorish vocabulary of a controversial media personality.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 5 months ago

"...giant assisted living facility..."

I agree-- crematoriums would be much more efficient.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Her name is Fluke.

I appreciate your direct criticism of Limbaugh's actions.

tbaker 3 years, 5 months ago

He was wrong on two counts Jafs, bad manners being one, being the self-proclaimed master of the conservative universe, he fell squarely into a clever trap laid by his rivals. Personally, I think the whole thing was staged. Bill O'Reilly spoke of this last night. Interesting story developing.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

That seems rather unlikely to me.

But, I'm not surprised that other conservatives in a similar vein would develop a conspiracy theory that somehow manages to blame this on the left, much as Limbaugh's own apology tried to do.

kugrad 3 years, 5 months ago

Read the actual article and you will see how this is "anything more than a foot note [sic] in the news." The point the author makes is that one party is embracing the arguments Mr. L makes, word choice aside.

tbaker 3 years, 5 months ago

I read the artical and listened to the monolouge live. The larger argument is worth embracing sir. Read my post.

jayhawklawrence 3 years, 5 months ago

In my view it is an established fact that Limbaugh used his position as a politically powerful rich guy to launch an obscene and crude attack on an innocent young woman.

When you watch Limbaugh's body language there is something abnormal about it. It appears to me that Rush may be suffering from some other personal problems that we are not yet aware of.

Seeing how he is on his 4th marriage, has no children and a former? drug addict, I think he is a very unstable person and this is the worst thing he has ever done on the radio. To make matters worse, his apology was not an apology at all and still major Republican politicians are giving him a pass and even defending him.

It certainly makes you uneasy about the current state of the Republican Party.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

Remember Joe, the plumber? "...Still, I think the comparison is interesting in numerous ways. When average citizens are thrust into the political debate, they are heroes — if they confirm prevailing liberal arguments. When they run against the grain of the preferred narrative, they are ground down, caricatured, and treated to corrosive media skepticism..."

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/292625/sandra-fluke-v-joe-plumber-jonah-goldberg

patkindle 3 years, 5 months ago

probably the cheapest media advertisng event rush ever had, and all of his enemies helped him woo woo boy is he stupid

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

Haven't they already tried that? Disney comes to mind.

Boycotting = censorship?

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

Recently, the Florida Family Association helped get the TV show "All-American Muslim" pulled from TLC by pressuring sponsors from pulling their ads.

fu7il3 3 years, 5 months ago

Republicans and Democrats have both become the problem. There is no middle ground anymore. All anyone cares to talk about is the extreme left and the extreme right. The majority has been forgotten in favor of the two very vocal minorities.

I am ashamed of how both parties have behaved in recent years. Politics has become all about political loyalties rather than making the country a better place to live. The country won't pull out of its current funk until politicians remember that they are there to serve the public, not their parties.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

Joe's background was more deeply investigated in a week than the Mope's was through the entire runup to the 2008 election. That you only remember the MSM's narrative proves my point.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

What will the "we want free stuff" brigade fasten on next?

kugrad 3 years, 5 months ago

Snap PNC, you just proved Mr. Pitt's point. You adopted the same ridiculous logic of Mr. Limbaugh. Women pay for health insurance at the institution in question. They earn it. It is not given to them in full or part by government money. They earn it in exchange for work. Yet you jump on Rush's bandwagon and act like they want birth control for nothing, which is untrue. Thus, you prove Mr. Pitt's point perfectly. Thank you for being the poster boy for the Rush brigade.

kugrad 3 years, 5 months ago

This was an excellent, timely, and insightful article. Mr. Pitts is 100% correct. Good work Mr. Pitts. Any reasonable person can see that the Republican party's lockstep mentality has led to the inevitable result of such groupthink - extremism.

camper 3 years, 5 months ago

I have family members and friends who have been brainwashed by Rush Limbaugh. That man spreads poison.

juma 3 years, 5 months ago

Maybe I am too old; but I remember the days when everyone bought their own contraceptives. No big deal, no big cost, just what you did to protect yourself. I am not making a political statement about contraception, only saying that we have become such a society of entitlement that even our condoms must be provided. Where will this stop?

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

This is not about condoms.

All methods of birth control except condoms and the Sponge require a doctor's visit and a prescription. That can be a big cost.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

Assuming there is one around. On top of that, the GOP has been central in trying to de-fund Planned Parenthood which would decrease the number of clinics available.

Lawrence does not have a Planned Parenthood anymore.

pace 3 years, 5 months ago

You are too smart to write for Rush Slut Limbaugh. But if you keep going the way you are headed, you might get there.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

Yeoman spews: "The real problem is not Limbaugh, he has made his mark. It is in not knowing just who around you is among his cadre of loosers who continue to advocate the destruction of the U.S. government and of the lawfully elected President of the United States. They just cannot stomach the fact that a black person was elected to the White House, no matter how much they deny their devotion to racism and other extremist virtuues."

No, the real problem is the inordinate number of mental pygmies who not only believe such tripe, but are ignorant enough to say it out loud or post it. Let's ignore the wanton silliness asserted that all Limbaugh listeners advocate the destruction of the government and the President, but they're all racists?

We have an upset, Ladies and Gentlemen! Yeoman beats out headdoctor for Dumbest Post of the Day! And with only 9 minutes to spare!!! Well played!

And from the cheap seats: it's LOSER, not "looser." How can so many get that wrong?

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Rush has said many times he hopes the economy fails, so they can get rid of Obama. That is a fact; sorry to bother your little head with those pesky things. He would rather see the country's economy fail, than see a Democrat as a president. His loyalty lies with the conservatives, not with our country. Yet, out of the other side of his mouth he will claim to be a patriot. US? Or Republican party? Which do you identify yourself with first?

As far as the racism goes, there has never been such out and out hatred for a president before, even against Bush. There has never been such a surge in membership in racist groups, since the Jim Crow days. I have heard plenty of nasty, racist jokes from many of my conservative relatives and acquaintances. Are all who oppose the President racists? No. But they are a very vocal, disgusting group. Just like my mom told me, you will be judged by the people you hang with. If you start condemning the racists, then you won't get labeled one. But all I've seen is people say "He was just joking." That doesn't fly. That isn't turning to these jerks and calling them out on it.

Women's rights groups condemned the attacks on Palin, even though she insulted them by rejecting them. President Obama called on people to leave Palin's family out of the dirty politics. So when are we going see this from the right? When are we going to see a conservative politician stand up and tell Limbaugh he's gone to far? The last one with any guts to do that had to bend his knees in apology. Why should Rush get an apology, because he is called "just an entertainer". What a wimp. He can dish it out, but he can't take it. Put him in diapers.

tomatogrower 3 years, 5 months ago

Oh excuse me. If the president's policy fails, then the country will fail, so what is the difference? It's borderline treason. I didn't agree with Bush on a lot of things, but I always prayed he would succeed for the sake of my country. United States or Conservative? Which are you most loyal to? You didn't answer the question.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

" Rush has said many times he hopes the economy fails, so they can get rid of Obama. That is a fact; sorry to bother your little head with those pesky things."

Who gives a shiitake mushroom? Sorry to bother your little head with such pesky things as facts, but the post was a condemnation of anyone small minded enough to blanket a group of 20 million people, identified simply as 'Limbaugh listeners', as racists and keen on the destruction of the President and our Government, in essence guilty of treason. That kind of blanket prejudice is usually right in the liberal wheelhouse. Pity you missed it. Is it because it didn't come in a conservative wrapper?

"If you start condemning the racists, then you won't get labeled one."

Yeah, back around 1692 that was the strategy in Salem, too.

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

About 400 million somethings, I think. Incredible, but true. Just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

camper 3 years, 5 months ago

JFK might have been hated as much here in Kansas. It would be interesting to see what would have registered if the internet worked then. I remember when I returned from a trip to Dallas and showed pictures of the area where President Kennedy died. One fellow told me he was in grade school and he said there was cheering when the news came over the intercom. It made me think that Kansas always was and always will have it's fair share of intolerant people.

verity 3 years, 5 months ago

Camper, I can only speak of what I experienced, but I came from a very Republican, conservative and mostly non-Catholic part of Kansas and we were all stunned and saddened when we heard the news of President Kennedy being shot and then dying. I remember my father sitting next to the radio all evening listening to the news (no TV). I never heard one negative word about the president or any of the Kennedys during that time. There was fear during the election that if elected, Kennedy would take his instructions from the pope, but it became apparent right away that wasn't going to happen and people accepted him as president.

As I remember, and I think history supports this, Kansas used to be much more moderate and tolerant, even just a few years ago. We were the first state to pass a law making abortion legal---Hawaii's law went into effect first, but our's was passed first (1970, if memory serves me).

I can't recall a time in the U.S., from my study of history, that religion has played anywhere near the part in an election that it is now.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

SS DD with the disappointed progressives.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 5 months ago

We'll all come down to the bus station to wave good-bye!

jaywalker 3 years, 5 months ago

The new phone books are here! The new phone books are here! I'm somebody now!

camper 3 years, 5 months ago

"I cut myself shaving and bled air". Navin Johnson

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 5 months ago

He hates the cans! Stay away from the cans!

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 5 months ago

Prescription drug abuse and obesity are also broad trends that Limbaugh is a part of.

yourworstnightmare 3 years, 5 months ago

I agree with the sentiment, but I do not agree with the false equanimity with Bill Maher.

Bill Maher is a vocal liberal, atheist, and legalization advocate. He is also an entertainer and claims to be nothing else. Also, the left do not follow his every word and base policy on Maher's ideas. In fact, most on the left condemn him and many of his views, or ignore him altogether.

False equanimity might make it look like you are a moderate. It also makes you look sloppy.

camper 3 years, 5 months ago

I'm a bleeding heart and I don't care for Maher. I tried watching one of his documentaries and it was boring. He is not even on my radar. Why is his name getting thrown into this argument?

usnsnp 3 years, 5 months ago

Limbaugh has every right to say what ever he wants.He clains that he is an entertainer so mabey people should take whatever he says with a grain of salt just like what most entertainers say.As an entertainer his main object is to draw intention to himself so that his ratings stays high so he can make more money. The beauty of being an entertainer is that they do not have to take any responsibility for what they say, they can say anything about any subject they want even if they dont know anything about the subject. People have to remember it is easy to critize others, expecially when you never have had to take responsibility for what you say or do.

jafs 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually, he doesn't have an absolute right to that.

There are a number of ways in which our society has decided that it's ok to limit speech, and/or to create consequences if people speak in certain ways.

I'll be interested to see if she decides to sue him for defamation, or something similar - I think she might have a very good case.

Katara 3 years, 5 months ago

You should talk to Don Imus about that one there, usnsnp.

parco814 3 years, 5 months ago

Nobody, but nobody, has the right-wing dung merchants' number like Leonard has. No one nails their nincompoopery with more clarity, truth, and bite, while still maintaining fairness and goodwill. This is why the vindictive and the whining and the frustrated on this board hate him; this is why I admire him and look forward to every Leonard column. He never lets us down. The best columnist in the country, hands down. Hammerkraut isn't fit to clean Leonard's pencil sharpener.

John Hamm 3 years, 5 months ago

A woman wants contraceptives let her buy 'em. I'm tired of supporting every whiners needs!

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