Archive for Friday, November 4, 2011

Occupy protesters disavow Oakland violence

November 4, 2011

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— Occupy Wall Street protesters had just a few hours to celebrate what they saw as their biggest victory so far: the peaceful shutdown of the nation’s fifth-busiest port. Then the rioting began.

A day after some protesters clashed with riot police, set fires and shattered windows in Oakland, Calif., demonstrators across the country condemned the violence and wondered whether it was a turn that would destroy their cause.

“They don’t speak for the majority of people who were here yesterday,” said Hadas Alterman, a college student who was gathering trash at a tent camp near Oakland City Hall. “That was an hour of action, and we were out here for 12 hours and it was peaceful.”

The protest outside the port, which reopened Thursday, represented an escalation in tactics as demonstrators targeted a major symbol of the nation’s commerce with peaceful rallies and sit-ins.

The violence that followed, however, raised questions about whether a movement with no organizational structure and no high-profile leaders can do anything to stop those they called troublemakers.

So far, few cities have reached the level of Oakland, a unique place with a long history of tensions between residents and police.

Bob Norkus at the Occupy Boston camp said the riots didn’t represent the broader movement and likely wouldn’t have a lasting effect on it, either. The movement is still evolving and mistakes are inevitable, he said.

It “has to be nonviolent, or else it will just end. We won’t get the support,” he said. “It doesn’t mean you can’t agitate people. But you can’t also be breaking windows and burning.”

Police in riot gear arrested more than 80 protesters in downtown Oakland, where bands of masked protesters took over a vacant building, erected roadblocks and threw chunks of concrete and firebombs. Five people and several officers were injured.

Chris Hedges, who was demonstrating at Goldman Sachs’ headquarters in New York, said the clashes in Oakland are a reminder to protesters that they should only respond peacefully to police actions.

“It’s awful. But police want people to break windows and set cars on fire, because it’s the kind of thing they know how to master — with force,” he said before being led quietly away in handcuffs.

Raymon Curtis, who was protesting in Portland, Ore., said he doesn’t believe the police in his city are seeking violence.

“I looked in their eyes and at first I thought it was a hard look,” Curtis said. “Then, I realized it was the same look I had when I went to prison for the first time. They’re terrified.”

Some protesters said violence can bring attention to the cause.

“This thing has to escalate so people see the violence and who is protecting the interests of the corporations,” said Denver protester Dwayne Hudson, standing next to a grill with logs burning over charcoal to stay warm after a snowstorm.

The far-flung movement challenging the world’s economic systems and distribution of wealth has gained momentum in recent weeks, with Oakland becoming a rallying point after an Iraq War veteran was injured in clashes with police last week.

Comments

cato_the_elder 3 years, 7 months ago

"Raymon Curtis, who was protesting in Portland, Ore., said he doesn’t believe the police in his city are seeking violence.

“I looked in their eyes and at first I thought it was a hard look,” Curtis said. “Then, I realized it was the same look I had when I went to prison for the first time."

'Nuff said.

grammaddy 3 years, 7 months ago

"Nev er doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed people can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that ever has."-Margaret Meade

tomatogrower 3 years, 7 months ago

So all of OWS is responsible for some trouble makers? Yet, in a Tea Party rally when several people are carrying openly racist signs, doesn't mean that all Tea Party people are racists? I would say there is a double standard here. And if you don't think that some Tea Party members haven't been to prison, then I have some really good investments for you that will triple your money. Honestly, really. I think the guys Malox, or Madox, or something like that.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

They want to protect their brand. It'll get much worse before the end.

Getaroom 3 years, 7 months ago

There will always be peaceful protesting and there will be those who chose to be destructive and as these gatherings grow in numbers, and they will and should grow, elements in groups will express as they do. At least we know were "it's_just_math" and FalseHopeNoChange stand as they continue to show their ignorance and rigid Black and White thinking. So what, let them rant and rant and spew their repeated small minded and racist blather. Their input here will not stop the growing unrest and rightful feelings of the desperation felt by millions of people around the world and those who want a voice and a choice in the direction their lives are headed. What these days is being called the 99% have been silent way too long and marginalized to the tipping point. For the past 10 months Republican politicians and a few Democrats have been absolutely frozen in time with only one focus and that is to see to it that Obama fails and in the mean time so is the country. They have not taken care of the one piece of the business they were elected to do that would help to bring the economy back up to speed. Not one bill has been brought forward by them, let alone passed, to create jobs. Not even one piece of job creating legislative action has been shown to the American voters. This sends but one message too: they do not give a dam about us, they are only interested in power and furthering greed. Why aren't all of us in the streets? Too many sheeples and not enough will to stand up to the crooks in DC and Wall Street. Posters like those mentioned above do not even have the awareness needed to see they are only hurting themselves. So much more convenient to take the low road and denigrate the black man in office than to stand up and participate in demanding we get some of our most basic of human rights restored. What will FHNC and ..math do when they to lose their jobs, life savings, homes, apartments? What do they do when the fundamentals of food, clothing and shelter are no longer at finger tip ease? Crawl in a hole and blame Obama - whine? Likely outcome! All these loses are a mere stroke away for many of us and that stoke is getting ever more a possible reality if Americans do not wake up and see the writing on the wall - not to be confused with your Facebook "wall".

Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

Why aren't the miscreants marching on the White House to protest crony capitialism and billions of dollars being whizzed away by the current regime?

tomatogrower 3 years, 7 months ago

You know I think someone asked the same question before, and I pointed out their is an Occupy DC. It gets really frustrating when people don't listen to the facts.

Bruce Rist 3 years, 7 months ago

Number of police at a Tea Party Event - 0 Number of police at "Occupy" - Not enough

Bruce Rist 3 years, 7 months ago

And this was a common occurs at most Tea Party Rally's? Riot Gear?

Bruce Rist 3 years, 7 months ago

Get back to me in a couple weeks, let's just see if this "smoke screen" to cover of the real news that's going (solyndra scandal, Guns to Mexico, Nancy Pelosi giving tax dollars to her brother-in-law etc) doesn't get worse. If it doesn't, I'll take it back. I hope it doesn't get worse

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

I suspect that there's a huge double standard being applied here, that all folks in the vicinity of any Occupy movements are part of the movement, if not spokespeople for it, while many at T-Party rallies are somehow not similarly viewed.

tomatogrower 3 years, 7 months ago

takeastand, The Occupy movement didn't have the 1% funding the rental of arenas. Occupy has taken to the streets on their own and with small donations. They really are a grass roots movement, unlike the tea party funded by the likes of the Koch brothers. They really don't have self proclaimed leaders who make a profit by hosting conventions. They really are the people, not a corporation.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/65628/index5.html

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 7 months ago

Kinda funny that the most ardent worshippers of violence on this forum are so quick to paint the whole OWS movement as violent (despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary) because of a very few outliers.

seriouscat 3 years, 7 months ago

Meanwhile, right wing militia members in Georgia conspire and plot to blow up government buildings. Where is the outrage from the right?

"I'd say the first ones that need to die is the ones in the government buildings," Adams was overheard saying in an April 16 meeting, according to the FBI.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45125741/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.TrP8tnKyBk8

Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

The mope in chief hasn't come out in support of the Georgia militia dudes as he has for the occupy dudes.

Armored_One 3 years, 7 months ago

I still find myself wondering, as I watch this play out, why the people that are involved, are not A.) organizing to form a coherent message and B.) why they think sitting in a park will accomplish much of anything.

The concept is, as best as I can tell, that the 'super rich' aren't paying their fair share of taxes. Then get rid of the politicians that are enabling the entire thing to happen.

There isn't a single member of this 'movement' that would voluntarily give up a single thing that they have earned simply because someone else said they felt it should happen. Lie all you want, but you wouldn't give up so much as a red cent just because someone in New York held up a sign with a smug catch phrase and demanded you did it.

There isn't a politician in our government that wasn't backed by the rich. I seriously doubt, with the exception of people like Perot that have run, that these people have private access to hundreds of millions of dollars. Of course they are going to protect their source of campaign funds. This isn't a huge leap of logic.

Get rid of the politicians. If there are so many people that are tired of the way things are going as is claimed, it shouldn't be a problem in any given election to not reelect the incumbent.

But that won't happen. Everyone involved with this movement is suffering from insanity.

The definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting a different result each adn every time. You are going to re-elect the same senators and represenative again. All you are going to do is strain local governments and eventually the violence will escalate. It's only a matter of time until mob mentality takes complete control, and then the protest will be put down. Not by police officers, either.

The National Guard will become involved. They won't chance prison to avoid following orders. The economy is delicate as it is. The crap in Greece is only going to make it worse. Do you honestly think that the second things take a turn for the worse, in regards to the protests, and the economy starts to take a serious beating because of it, that the government won't step in and end it as quickly as possible?

Get rid of the politicians. If the new crop is as dismal as this one, get rid of them as well. It will send a message straight to the heart of politicians that if you do NOT serve the will of the people, which is what they are supposed to do anyway, they will be summarily replaced. Just because you have a lever doesn't automatically mean you will move anything. You have to use it correctly.

Stop. Think. Use your brain for something other than what keeps your ears from touching in the middle.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 3 years, 7 months ago

With the stranglehold that big money/Wall Street has over our electoral politics, how do you expect to throw the bums out?

First step is to stop that stranglehold, and taking to the streets is a first step towards doing that.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

"...taking to the streets..." Tough talk from a bozo. Talk is cheap.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

You don’t know me but I’m your brother I was raised here in this living hell You don’t know my kind in your world Fairly soon the time will tell You, telling me the things you’re gonna do for me I ain’t blind and I don’t like what I think I see

Takin’ it to the streets Takin’ it to the streets Takin’ it to the streets Takin’ it to the streets

Take this message to my brother You will find him everywhere Wherever people live together Tied in poverty’s despair You, telling me the things you’re gonna do for me I ain’t blind and I don’t like what I think I see

Takin’ it to the streets Takin’ it to the streets Takin’ it to the streets Takin’ it to the streets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUE0r3fsWdg

Liberty275 3 years, 7 months ago

What will you be taking to the street? If you are just going to "occupy" or march or chant, people are just going to laugh at you. You know what you need to do.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!""

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo4tAgMpvM

Armored_One 3 years, 7 months ago

Because. They. Are. Still. Elected. By. The. People.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Yes.

Who would you have us vote for in the next election so as to have an uncorrupted government?

Armored_One 3 years, 7 months ago

Rule out anyone that volunteers for the job.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

That's cute, and clever.

So, who should we all vote for?

Armored_One 3 years, 7 months ago

A computer generated list of people with a baseline amount of education, with each state doing much the same thing.

There is already plenty of databases in each state containing the names of all residents. Compile a list of those with an education beyond high school.

Even in gwbasic, I was able to write a program in under 10 minutes that was capable of picking a series of random numbers. Assign each person a random number, then use said program to randomly generate 5 numbers. Those 5 people are then placed on the ballot.

I've read your posts, Jafs. You are not an idiot. It truly wouldn't suprise me if you hadn't thought of something similiar at one point or another.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

You forgot the most blatant of all - Rockchalk1877. I actually found a video of him/her: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7J...

pepper_bar 3 years, 7 months ago

Occupy Oakland's untenable hodgepodge of peace-loving marchers and mayhem-loving rioters is truly "what democracy looks like."

And that is a good example of why America is not a democracy, thanks goodness. America is a democratic republic that efficiently suppresses and disciplines ultra-minority idiots like the Oakland rioters.

sun45kiss 3 years, 7 months ago

I hate what the protesters are doing to my city !! Mayor Quan is doing a terrible job managing Oakland and she does not support the Oakland Police Dept. !! Herman Cain I hope you will become the next president of the United States of America !!

Liberty275 3 years, 7 months ago

Will they be wearing blue dresses or making a movie?

gl0ck0wn3r 3 years, 7 months ago

No doubt the OWS folks will forgive the police if they disavow the "violence" of a few officers.

jafs 3 years, 7 months ago

Really?

You're comparing a very organized top-down and heavily structured group like the police to the OWS folks?

I thought they were the most disorganized, chaotic group around, according to their detractors.

Richard Heckler 3 years, 7 months ago

As participants in the Occupy Wall Street movement continue protesting the record profits made by banks bailed out by taxpayer money, a group of grassroots activists are hitting America’s largest banks—including JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America and Wells Fargo—where it hurts most: the wallet.

Dubbing this Saturday, Nov. 5 as "Bank Transfer Day," activists are urging people to move their money out of the banks deemed "too big to fail" into local community banks and credit unions.

Bank Transfer Day draws on an idea popularized by filmmaker Eugene Jarecki, economist Rob Johnson and columnist Arianna Huffington, among others. In 2010, they created the short film called "Move Your Money," which became a viral sensation. We speak with filmmaker Eugene Jarecki.

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/11/1/move_your_money_campaign_grows_to

jhawkinsf 3 years, 7 months ago

The people of Oakland will riot if the sun shines. They're riot if it rains. They'll riot if the winds blow. They'll riot if the winds are calm. The people of Oakland riot because that's the Oakland way. I've spent more than my share of time in Oakland. Hopefully, I'll spend no more time there.

Flap Doodle 3 years, 7 months ago

Don't hold back, tommie. Tell us what you really think.

Crazy_Larry 3 years, 7 months ago

"There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!""

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVo4tAgMpvM

tomatogrower 3 years, 7 months ago

I wonder how the1% could have gotten rich without the 99%? I mean did the big guys go out and sell the product? produce the product? Did the entertainers set up their lighting and camera angles? Did the Kardasians, with no real talent except melodrama, film their own reality show? Does the real estate moguls go out and maintain their buildings all by themselves? Reagan and his cronies had a nice idea with the trickle down thing, but the 1% do not want to trickle down. They do not want to hire more people, because it would cut into their millions. They do not want to give their people a raise, because it would cut into their millions. They think the peons are just stupid for wanting to have a family and modestly support their families, because a living wage would cut into their millions. Yet, they wouldn't have those millions without all those "peons". Peons, let the 1% know you are sick of it.

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