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Letters to the Editor

Voting ideas

October 24, 2010

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To the editor:

Kris Kobach and Sam Brownback believe voters are unsound thinkers who can’t remember two good ideas at once (Journal-World, Oct. 18). The two good ideas are:

• The right to vote should not be obstructed — which K&B want us to forget,

• Voter fraud is wrong — which K&B take to extremes.

What any sound thinker understands is:

• We need to keep burdens on voters low, without unduly facilitating fraud.

• We need to prevent fraud, without unduly burdening the right to vote.

K&B’s thinking is unsound and extreme because:

• They keep pushing schemes making it harder to vote — but never tell us how many legitimate voters their schemes will obstruct.

• They have no sound evidence of voter fraud.

• They have lots of unsound evidence — cases that never led to fraud convictions.

• To make unsound evidence look sound, they claim prosecutors aren’t doing their job.

• They propose unsound solutions that can’t possibly make prosecutors do any better.

K&B’s favorite proposal is voter ID: forcing people who want to vote, but lack picture IDs because they are old, poor, have disabilities or lack transportation, to spend their limited time, money and physical effort getting IDs.

That’s unsound because:

• Voter ID won’t obstruct voter fraud. Ask any bartender how hard it is to get phony IDs.

• Voter ID will obstruct voting by people who are old, poor, less educated or have disabilities.

Not coincidentally, many of them are Independents and Democrats.

And since when do conservatives support big government universal ID schemes?

Comments

Healthcare_Moocher 4 years, 2 months ago

What any sound thinker understands is: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Is the LTE writer including himself in this statement?

You have to have an ID to get welfare, SS, Disability, etc... so what is the problem with needing one to vote?

Stu Clark 4 years, 2 months ago

H_M, an ID is needed to REGISTER. It's never been shown that, once registered, requiring a voter to show an ID to vote does anything to promote voter fraud.

jafs 4 years, 2 months ago

Pretty sure you mean "prevent" fraud.

gilly 4 years, 2 months ago

The biggest voter fraud was Bush v. Gore. Did anyone ask the Supreme Court justices to provide special identification cards when they disenfranchised the American populace?

David's logic is sound. The above commenters are railing at nothing.

Stu Clark 4 years, 2 months ago

Bush vs. Gore was not voter fraud. It was election fraud, a much more serious condition.

Eileen Jones 4 years, 2 months ago

Bush vs. Gore was fraud on many levels. Voter suppression by a partisan governor was part of it.

The Supreme Court should have been impeached over Bush v. Gore.

notajayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

Why, the nerve of that Republican governor, for insisting on upholding the law of the state he was elected to govern! That cad!

As far as the Supreme Court goes, stain, maybe you should actually read the ruling some time and see what it did, and did not do. One of the things it did NOT do was alter the outcome of the election, since, as I mentioned in my reply to gilly, if Gore had prevailed and the votes had been recounted the way he asked, Bush still won.

Buy a clue.

notajayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

gilly (anonymous) says…

"Did anyone ask the Supreme Court justices to provide special identification cards when they disenfranchised the American populace?"

And who got "disenfranchised", again? Oh, that's right - nobody.

It's amazing how long after drinking the kool-aid, the effects can still be seen. Just as it's amazing to see children who weren't old enough to stay up and watch those election night returns are such experts on what happened.

Suppose the Supreme Court had ruled in favor of Gore, and the votes had been recounted exactly as he asked them to be? Oh, that's right - Bush still won. A pesky little detail that the kool-aid swizzlers always seem to conveniently 'forget'.

As a matter of fact, gill, after all the ballots were recounted six ways from Sunday, there was only one way for Gore to have won - if all the ballots had been recounted (which nobody, but nobody, had asked for or suggested) AND the overvotes were counted (and mostly awarded to Gore). It's one thing to carry around a grudge, gilly, but it should at least have some grounding in reality.

Centerville 4 years, 2 months ago

If Brownback doesn't want me to vote, why did he send me an advance ballot application - with easy to follow, non-partisan instructions?

barlowtl 4 years, 2 months ago

If you have to show id at the polls, how do you identify yourself when you mail in or drop off an advance ballot?

Richard Heckler 4 years, 2 months ago

A Kansas state drivers license or a Kansas State ID card are available as we speak. What more could we want?

Kobach and Brownback want to spend more tax dollars for no reason aka reinventing a wheel.

jafs 4 years, 2 months ago

As I understand the proposal, it would merely require an ID of that sort to be shown when voting.

Since they're easily available, there shouldn't be much of a problem implementing that suggestion.

Mike Ford 4 years, 2 months ago

the archie bunkers have spoken in disapproval of intelligent statements. What else would one expect of shewmon, moocher, tinky dinky, excedera. Bullies don't like intellect, they like bullying. Like Bryllocreme and Kommandant Kobach the archie bunkers don't like facts or intellectual statements. The archies like being led by the flute of the no real message people. Too bad the rest of Kansas is like a feudal serfdom of people who like to follow hollow campaign issues and vote for the pipers. Nothing's wrong with Kansas.... oh no.... nothing....

notajayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

"the archie bunkers have spoken in disapproval of intelligent statements"

Haven't seen too many of those to speak in disapproval of, tuschie - never having seen one from you, for instance.

Richard Heckler 4 years, 2 months ago

Actually Brownback wants a voter ID Card = dumb and reckless spending.

This could also be more rhetoric to distract voters from the fact that republican history of the last 30 years is rotten to the core. The most corrupt and largest spending party of all times.

No party in the history of America has put more people out of work,out of medical insurance,ruined retirement plans, sent the nations economy down the tube twice all by way of defrauding financial institutions.

Voter ID cards will not prevent voter fraud which makes Brownbacks thinking a load of crap.

Hell he was in Washington D.C. for 16 years and did nothing to prevent or stop the Bush/Cheney fraud which begs the question what in the hell was Brownback and Moran doing.... not paying attention? This activity was ongoing for a few years.

"Yes, substantial fraud was involved. For example, mortgage companies and banks used deceit to get people to take on mortgages when there was no possibility that the borrowers would be able to meet the payments. Not only was this fraud, but this fraud depended on government authorities(Bush admin) ignoring their regulatory responsibilities." http://www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2009/0709macewan.html

Yes David Burress is correct on all points....

A. Voter fraud is not a problem B. Special Voter ID cards will not prevent voter fraud

People counterfeit money everyday....

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 2 months ago

Neither Kobach nor Brownback are really at all concerned about voter fraud, nor are they concerned with preventing it (since they know that it doesn't really happen, and therefore doesn't need preventing.)

What they want is distraction from important issues, which doesn't happen to include voter fraud, while playing off the unfounded fears that they have helped to create.

And they've succeeded.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, tinky, but an unproven allegation of voter registration fraud is not voter fraud.

But even if it proves true, its discovery shows just how nearly impossible it is to perpetrate any significant level of voter fraud.

But what's more likely is that the racist idiot responsible for the link you provided is really just trying to prevent legitimate voters who he thinks will vote in a way he doesn't like from exercising their right to vote.

notajayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

Sorry, j_a_b, but an unproven allegation that voter ID laws prevent anyone from exercising their right to vote is not placing any hardship on voting.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 2 months ago

Requiring people to hop around for 3 seconds on one foot before casting their ballot probably wouldn't be an undue hardship for most voters, either. But it'd be equally pointless.

kansastruthteller 4 years, 2 months ago

I pasted a table that shows the states that require photo ID and just an ID to vote. If obstruction is a legitimate issue then it should be simple to provide supporting data since some states already require an ID.

You might notice that Kansas requires no ID.

New York is currently investigating voter fraud. Is Kansas somehow protected from voter fraud? I doubt it. So, for less than $20 anyone can get a photo ID. Many organizations bus voters to the polls so I suspect they would be willing to take those without transportation to get an ID and I bet they'd be willing to pay for the ID too.

So, requiring an ID does not prevent people from voting. And, it will help deter voter fraud which everyone should support regardless of how prevelant it currently is. Any voter fraud is too much for me.

Table 1: State Requirements for Voter Identification

States that Request or Require Photo ID

States that Require ID (Photo not Required)

Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Indiana Louisiana Michigan South Dakota

Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas Colorado Connecticut Delaware Kentucky Missouri

Montana North Dakota Ohio South Carolina Tennessee Texas Utah Virginia Washington

notajayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

"Kris Kobach and Sam Brownback believe voters are unsound thinkers"

Um, no. It's actually YOU who think voters are unsound thinkers. Your entire letter is based on the typical liberal elitist dogma that if we support Republican candidates, then we just must not be as gosh dang smart as you are.

"They keep pushing schemes making it harder to vote"

Hmmm. And yet there has been absolutely no evidence - none whatsoever - that a single person has been caused any undue hardship to vote in states that instituted a voter ID law. Imagine that.

Seems any sound thinker would have known that.

notajayhawk 4 years, 2 months ago

BTW, Mr. Burress, is it 'sound thinking' to wait until there is actually evidence that an election result was changed by voter fraud before taking reasonable preventative steps?

JHOK32 4 years, 2 months ago

I'm a sound thinker...................how about this one for size: Sam Brownback wants to take away all of the health benefits for the poor & most neediest 200,000 Kansans, because he doesn't want to pay taxes for those no-good loafers, yet it's OK for US to pay HIS health insurance & HIS family's health insurance................what a two-faced hypocrite bigot!! He's the biggest moocher of them all! I say we throw the bum out on the street homeless with no health insurance & no job & see how much of an "unsound thinker" he is!!!

Eileen Jones 4 years, 2 months ago

Sam Brownback was a Bush lapdog and Bush enabler who never opposed Bush on anything.

When he speaks to voters, he sounds like a career politician - a master of speaking on and on while saying nothing. He never gives any specifics about HOW he is going to perform the magic. And he must use magic instead of math, to figure out how he is going to fix everything while cutting taxes and cutting spending. He's going to gut education, so only the rich will have educated kids.

It makes me positively ill that he is going to be our governor. God help Kansas.

independent_rebel 4 years, 2 months ago

I'm curious about something. Those who are against voters showing photo id's like to point out that there is little evidence of voter fraud to begin with.

I'm curious if the reason wed on't see as much fraud as is probable is due to the ease to commit fraud in the first place udner the lax system currently in place.

In other words, those commiting the fraud haven't been caught.

Fraud is out there.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years, 2 months ago

"I'm curious if the reason wed on't see as much fraud as is probable is due to the ease to commit fraud in the first place udner the lax system currently in place."

Here's a suggestion for a research project. You and some of your cohorts go out and commit voter fraud, enough to actually affect an election, and then get back with us on whether or not you got caught.

TPowell78 4 years, 2 months ago

I'm not voting for Kobach because I think he puts his personal agenda ahead of his public service agenda, but I will say photo ID at the polls doesn't seem that unreasonable. Photo ID to board a plane, photo ID to buy certain medicines, but no ID needed to vote? Doesn't make sense to me.

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