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Archive for Wednesday, March 3, 2010

Court may extend gun owner rights nationwide

March 3, 2010

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— The Supreme Court suggested Tuesday it will strike down U.S. cities’ outright bans on handguns, a ruling that could establish a nationwide ownership right fervently sought by gun advocates. But the justices indicated less severe limits could survive, continuing disputes over the “right to keep and bear arms.”

Chicago-area residents who want handguns for protection in their homes are asking the court to extend its 2008 decision in support of gun rights in Washington, D.C., to state and local laws.

Comments

ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 1 month ago

The Constitution preserves "the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation. . . (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." -- The Federalist, No. 46

  • James Madison
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75x55 4 years, 1 month ago

Gonna have to have a Class 3 license to wield that spork you've been dreaming about...

Sporks - when sporks are outlawed, no one but outlaws will have sporks.... Tremble now all ye faint of heart!

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

Ordinary Americans in Chicago can't have forks.

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75x55 4 years, 1 month ago

Must keep forks, with corks in place, locked in approved metal cabinets.

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Bob Kraxner 4 years, 1 month ago

$hit... Forks will be outlawed, only plastic sporks allowed within city limits, in all restaurants!

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blue73harley 4 years, 1 month ago

And the corks must be painted orange.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

Next step, corks on all forks.

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Bob Kraxner 4 years, 1 month ago

Handguns were made for killing, and nothing else... and as long as a criminal has that fear of being shot, lurking in the back of his mind--he will be far less likely to commit a crime against a person. Wouln't you agree? If the police are the only ones allowed to carry guns, then who or what is going to keep you from getting shot, raped or at the very least robbed, before/until they arrive?

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75x55 4 years, 1 month ago

Lemme see if I have this right - individuals need to have their rights curbed, as they might accidentally hurt themselves or others?

Or am I missing something?

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KSManimal 4 years, 1 month ago

blue73harley (anonymous) says...

" Lynyrd Skynyrd"

Don't you mean "Rossington and the Replacements"

:)

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Bob Kraxner 4 years, 1 month ago

I'd rather be judged by 12 jurors, than carried by 6 pallbearers. To me, gun control means being able to hit what I'm aiming at. When guns are outlawed, I'll become an outlaw. My insurance agents are Samuel Colt & Dan Wesson. You can have my guns when you pry them from my cold dead fingers.

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blue73harley 4 years, 1 month ago

Bea - Just don't forget that after this came "Give Me Back My Bullets"!

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

Sorry blue, couldn't resist.

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

Two feets they come a creepin' Like a black cat do And two bodies are layin' naked Creeper think he got nothin' to lose So he creeps into this house, yeah And unlocks the door And as a man's reaching for his trousers Shoots him full of .38 holes

(Chorus) Mr.Saturday night special Got a barrel that's blue and cold Ain't no good for nothin' But put a man six feet in a hole

Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey And playing poker on a losin' night And pretty soon, Big Jim starts a thinkin' Somebody been cheatin' and lyin' So Big Jim commences to fightin' I wouldn't tell you no lie And Big Jim done pull his pistol Shot his friend right between the eyes

(Chorus)

Oooh Saturday night special... For twenty dollars you can buy yourself one too...

Oooh let me tell you all about it...

Well hand guns are made for killin' They ain't no good for nothin' else And if you like to drink your whiskey You might even shoot yourself So why don't we dump 'em people To the bottom of the sea Before some ole fool come around here Wanna shoot either you or me

(Chorus)

Ooooh it's a Saturday night special And I'd like to tell you what you can do with it too...

Courtesy of Lynyrd Skynyrd (the pre-plane crash, real Lynyrd Skynyrd!)

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blue73harley 4 years, 1 month ago

Last night I heard this politician Talking 'bout his brand new mission 'Liked his plans, but they came undone when he got around with God and guns

I don't know how he grew up But it sure wasn't down at the hunting club Cause if it was he'd understand a little bit more about the working man

God and guns Keep us strong That's what this country Was founded on Well we might as well give up and run If we let them take our God and guns

I'm here in my back of the woods Where God is great and guns are good You really can't know that much about 'm If you think we're better off without 'm

Well there was a time we ain't forgot You caressed all night with the doors unlocked But there ain't nobody save no more So you say your prayers and you thank the lord

For that peace maker And the joy

God and guns (God and guns) Keep us strong That's what this country, lord Was founded on Well we might as well give up and run, If we let 'm take our God and guns. Yea we might aswell give up and run, If we let 'm take our God and guns!

Courtesy of Lynyrd Skynyrd

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

feeble, good point. If the gun-rights folks get their way on this, it would be a case against states' rights. This seems to be a contradiction for conservatives.

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Thinking_Out_Loud 4 years, 1 month ago

anon1958, the character was Rooster Cogburn. Which you would have known, had you read Charles Portis's novel.

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1029 4 years, 1 month ago

About time SCOTUS! Good news like this makes me want to blast off a few celebratory rounds out the window on my way home from work this evening. (My commute is through a rural area, so it's okay.) God bless America.

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Robert Kiefer 4 years, 1 month ago

Trust me, if a liberal a$$pirate shows up at my door, he or she will witness my right to bear arms! So go ahead punk, make my day!

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feeble 4 years, 1 month ago

It is interesting to note that this represents a strengthening of individual rights at the expense of states rights. I'm not advocating against the second amendment here, just noting that the will States are once again being subverted by the Fed.

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RoeDapple 4 years, 1 month ago

Good to see you too, bea!

;-)

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

owlhead: "BUT you can't take away rights because people die from irresponsible gun use. People that are licensed to carry concealed pass a background check and get an education course on appropriate use of their firearm. At least i know who ISN"T a felon........."

That is exactly my point. Thanks.

RoeD, what does my Aunti have to do with this?

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RoeDapple 4 years, 1 month ago

From Wikipedia; "Jonah Woodson Hex is a fictional character, a Western comic book antihero created by writer John Albano and artist Tony DeZuniga and published by DC Comics. The right side of his face is horribly scarred. He was an officer for the Confederacy during the American Civil War, fought at Gettysburg and is normally shown wearing a tattered Confederate States Army jacket. "

I never heard of him either gogo, but what the heck, you can't argue with the anti's, they know what's good for us...

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gogoplata 4 years, 1 month ago

Too many morons in this country fantasize about being Dirty Harry, Rooster Cockburn or Jonah Hex. I mock all you fools that believe in conceal and carry and would take a concealed handgun into a bar or some other volatile place if you could.

Who is Jonah Hex?

There are plenty of real men and women out there with the courage to help out people in danger. Not to mention that my 88 year old grandmother armed with a .38 revolver can protect herself from people that she would have no chance against without the gun. For a lot of people gun ownership has nothing to do with being a toughguy. Guns are a tool that the weak can use to protect themselves from the strong if necessary.

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OwlHead 4 years, 1 month ago

beatrice, roeDapple is pointing out that murders are going up in Britain. Britain does not allow much at all for handguns. I do not know their laws, but I do know that gun ownership is severely restricted there. So the criminals have handguns and the citizens do not have handguns to protect themselves.

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OwlHead 4 years, 1 month ago

 Irresponsible gun owners that do not properly store their weapons and properly educate their children on safe gun use are indeed a problem....BUT you can't take away rights because people die from irresponsible gun use.  People that are licensed to carry concealed pass a background check and get an education course on appropriate use of their firearm.  At least i know who ISN"T a felon.........
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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

Liberty, I am using good / bad as a paradigm for non-criminal / criminal. Consider Conceal and Carry laws that are on the books now. If a "good" person is concealing and carrying now and they haven't filed all the proper paperwork, what can happen to them? Personally, I feel that with owning a firearm comes some responsibility, and that should include filling out some paperwork. Irresponsible people incapable of filling out some paperwork probably shouldn't be armed. The last part you suggest does pose a problem, I'll admit, just as not doing what I suggests can cause problems. Consider in your just carry viewpoint, sans training and registration, what about her ex-boyfriend is caught with a firearm on the way over to see her? You would suggest that unless he has threatened her and hasn't actually shot her yet, nothing can be done to stop him. Only after he shots her will he then be a crimnal. I think it better to take the gun from his un-registered, un-trained hands first.

Let's face it, with guns and unlawful people, there is no perfect scenario.

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Liberty_One 4 years, 1 month ago

bea, just because someone doesn't jump through all the hoops you wish to set up for them doesnt' make someone a bad person. They've hurt no one, but you want to throw them in jail anyway because they haven't filed all the proper paperwork? What if her ex-boyfriend is threatening her and she is afraid to wait for the next available training class? I don't think people should have to choose between becoming a criminal or protecting their life.

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

RoeD, how does that compare with the U.S.?

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RoeDapple 4 years, 1 month ago

Hmmm...

Handgun deaths in Great Britain

  1. 3865

  2. 4275

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

snap: "The law-abiding British subjects were disarmed through a series of what seemed at the time reasonable steps. Violent crime is booming there now."

Liberty: "And under your proposal the good guy with the gun goes to prison too."

To Liberty's point first. You are wrong. The "good guy" would have had training and be registered as a gun owner -- much as the good guys who follow Conceal and Carry laws do now. Same thing. So you are wrong in the way you are framing my argument. You may not agree with my proposal, and frankly knowing how you think on these matters I'd be surprised if you did, but it isn't what I am suggesting.

Snap: Who is talking about disarming law-abiding citizens? Certainly not me. Your bringing up the disarming of the British has no relationship with what I am discussing -- except for the "slippery slope ... Obama wants to take our guns ... the sky is falling!" scare tactics kind of way that the NRA makes its bread and butter on.

So, back to what I suggested. Law-abiding citizens would get training and registered (means of showing proof of training, not registering every single gun, by the way). It is a means of dealing with the issue of too many criminals (note criminals, not citizens) who use guns in committing crimes (or may intend to by owning guns illegally) and how to seriously punish those who want to use guns in committing crimes. "But criminals don't bother to register," you might say, to which I would say "Duh!" That is the point. Get the guns out of the hands of those who won't obey laws. (Just trying to save a few exchanges here.) Will it be perfect? No. Would it be better than nothing at all? Yes, because we do have a problem of too many guns being in the hands of criminals in this country.

It is all very simple, really.

Oh, and to your point about violence in Britain, how many gun deaths do they have in Great Britain every year? Just asking.

75x55, thanks, but no help needed.

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barrypenders 4 years, 1 month ago

Make sure you report to the Police, that your registered firearm is stolen. When The Poser sends his 'Community Organizers' out to confiscate them, a police report that says it was stolen will come in handy.

Stimulus, Transformation and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless us all

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KSManimal 4 years, 1 month ago

SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) says... "A "nationwide ownership right" already exists. You'll find it in the Bill of Rights; 2nd Amendment."

Stop the presses and buy Satan a parka. I agree with STRS.

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PosseComitatus 4 years, 1 month ago

If only the police are allowed to possess guns would they then be considered a standing army?

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75x55 4 years, 1 month ago

beatrice - are you OK? These kinds of statements make me wonder if you need some.... help.

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Liberty_One 4 years, 1 month ago

beatrice (anonymous) says...

"Scenario: Cop stops bad guy, and bad guy has a gun. Under my proposal bad guy would go to jail, no if ands or buts."

And under your proposal the good guy with the gun goes to prison too.

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The_Original_Bob 4 years, 1 month ago

"Handguns are more of a safety liability to a family than any kind protection. " Anon

Link?

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jbiegs 4 years, 1 month ago

I don't understand the mentality of those who favor gun control. Do you really think the criminals care what the law says? No, these laws do not matter to them. Therefore, by passing gun control laws, the only ones affected are the law abiding citizens who would use them only for self defense or recreation. Stop comparing apples to oranges. Criminals can and will acquire whatever it is they desire through whatever means necessary.

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 1 month ago

That's how progressives work, snap.......little baby steps, and when the deal is done, noone ever knew anything was going on until it's too late. We are seeing a textbook example with The Anointed One, San Fran Nan and Harry "High Speed Rail" Reid right now.

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puddleglum 4 years, 1 month ago

machine guns can save lives too. I just don't see what the big deal is.

vote for puddleglum, governor of KANSAS

i promise, I will pass legislation which will fine any state resident that does not own a handgun. even handless people, whom can figure out some way to shoot a pistol with their feet. oh, the reasoning? the forefathers suggested this penalty years ago. I'm just here to enforce it.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

The law-abiding British subjects were disarmed through a series of what seemed at the time reasonable steps. Violent crime is booming there now.

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

"That didn't prevent Mr. Nutbar from crashing an airplane into a building a few days ago."

snap, I didn't say training and registering of gun owners would stop all problems. However, had Mr. Nutbar been flying around and stopped at some point prior to crashing into a building, I guess you would be opposed to putting him in jail if he wasn't licensed to fly or if he was flying an unregistered plane.

However, guns and airplanes are two different things. An airplane, when it crashes and kills people, has either failed or was used in a manner unintended. When a gun is used and kills someone, it is being used in the exact manner in which it was designed and for what it was intended (putting metal slugs through or into another object at a high rate of speed). Very different things, planes and guns.

Scenario: Cop stops bad guy, and bad guy has a gun. Under my proposal bad guy would go to jail, no if ands or buts. In your scenario it is "oh, give him a chance to commit a crime with the gun first." Let's let him prove he is a bad guy. I say no. I agree with you that the law-abiding citizens with firearms are not the problem. Requiring training and registration will help distinguish the good citizens from the bad ones. I have no idea why you feel that is such a bad thing.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

Law-abiding citizens with firearms are not the problem, no matter which side of the aisle they inhabit.

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barrypenders 4 years, 1 month ago

PADs like babboy can't help his emtionality. He was born and trained that way. A victim of Progressive Articulate Disillusionment circumstances. People like Harvard trained Amy Bishop do need to be reconnoitered with though.

Stimulus, No Brass No Ammo, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless us all

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remember_username 4 years, 1 month ago

I don't know, Mr. Shewmon. Are you sure you'd be comfortable if the "lefties" you fear so much felt the way the "righties" do about the 2nd amendment, and were running around armed?

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 1 month ago

BABBOY, Horrible post, intolerant, bigoted, and unAmerican. Someone looks different so you label them "freaks" and "nuts". Do you go to the special olympics and associate the athletes with terms like retard or idiot? If someone doesn't fit into your set of beliefs and values then they are labeled "Weirdos".

Oh yes you are!

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paulette2 4 years, 1 month ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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BABBOY 4 years, 1 month ago

Like this is going to be an issue in Kansas.

If you ever doubt that the gun nuts are nuts, then go to a gun show at the expo center in Topeka. A friend innocently bought a hunting shot gun from one of these "vendors" and needed it fixed. The guy he bought from told him to take to the gun show and he could drop it off with him to be fixed. I went with him (which is funny in itseff).

Never saw so many freaks and nuts in my life. By the way, why do you guys need pistols with silencers? Also, if you buy the right license, you can own just about anything in Kansas.

But, anyway, I think all of you gun nuts are just weirdos that got beat up in high school and now have to have a big gun to feel like a man because you can't fight with your fists.........

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Mel Briscoe 4 years, 1 month ago

yeeee haaaaaw! where's my 6 shooter??!

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madameX 4 years, 1 month ago

"""He fully understood after reading the 2-3 page article that the constitution was violated by liberals""""


Where was this 2-3 page article from? Just curious. I'm not really sure that this is an issue that could adequately be explained in 2-3 pages unless the font was unreadably tiny or the article was ridiculously one-sided, let alone fully understood after reading said pages.

BTW, I think the gun ban will be struck down too. When the first decision was handed down I though the basic reasoning should apply to the states, and that it was just a matter of time before a case made its was through that required the court to address specifically how it applies.

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Fatty_McButterpants 4 years, 1 month ago

I'm waiting to see the novel which Merrill will post on this subject. Seriously, Merrill,have you ever posted a single, brief comment, instead of your obnoxiously long, multi-post essays???

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barrypenders 4 years, 1 month ago

annon1958 "I mock all you fools"

58 is mocking fools like murderer Harvard educated Amy Bishop. She probably saw to many Rosie O'donnell flicks.

Stimulus, Clear Down Range, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless us all

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Satirical 4 years, 1 month ago

STRS... "A 'nationwide ownership right' already exists. You'll find it in the Bill of Rights; 2nd Amendment." - STRS

Actually the 2nd Amendment currently does not apply to the states. Originally when the U.S. Constitution was adopted it only applied to the Federal government. Therefore your 1st Amendment right to free speech only protected censure by the federal government, and unless your state had a similar provision in its Constitution, a state could prevent speech. It wasn't until the 1890s that the Bill of Rights starting applying to the states through what is called "incorporation." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorpor...

The last SCOTUS opinion dealing with this issue said the 2nd Amendment does not apply to the states, so that is still precedent (current law). However, this ruling was prior to the incorporation theory. Therefore, I see no reason this wouldn't get 8-1 approval since the 2nd Amendment has already been interpreted in the Heller decision to not allow the federal government to ban handguns. The only question is HOW the 2nd Amendment is incorporated. That actually is a very interesting constitutional question because there are numerous possible ways to do it.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

If airplanes were registered with the federal government and all pilots had to be trained and licensed, then crimes involving airplanes would be eliminated. Oh wait, airplanes are registered, all pilots have to be trained and licensed. That didn't prevent Mr. Nutbar from crashing an airplane into a building a few days ago. But that'll work much better with firearms, trust the feds to get it right this time.

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beatrice 4 years, 1 month ago

s-cat: Far more people die inside homes where guns are kept than in homes without guns. We have gone over this one on this board recently. That is why I choose not to own.

However, the Constitution is the Constitution, and in my as always humble opinion, what I see as band-aid type guns laws of preventing them here but not there, outlawing this gun in this county but not in that county, do not work. Get rid of those laws, as this case may do, and then we can start to look at serious, wholesale gun control on a national level, where it should be. As always, I'm for training and registering legal, law-abiding owners. What will that do? Well, if not registered and you are found with a gun = jail time. No reason for a law-abiding citizen to not be registered. Use a gun in a crime = years in jail. Fire a gun while committing a crime = decade in jail, at least. Conceal and Carry type rules for everyone who wants to be a law-abiding citizen solves much of the problem.

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seriouscat 4 years, 1 month ago

Anon wrote "Handguns are more of a safety liability to a family than any kind protection. It is just dangerous and stupid to pretend otherwise."

Wrong.

"Citizens use guns to defend themsleves as many 2.5 million times a year… Each year firearms are used sixty times more often to protect the lives of citizens than to take lives. The majority of these citizens defend themselves by brandishing their weapons or firing a warning shot … Only two percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. By contrast, the error rate for police officers is eleven percent."

“The Carter Justice Department found that nationwide 32 percent of more than 32,000 attempted rapes were committed, but only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were successful when a woman was armed with a knife or a gun.”

Source: Deer Hunting With Jesus by Joe Bageant

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Tom Shewmon 4 years, 1 month ago

Ironically, my senior had a small 10 pt. current event assignment for his Street Law class. He asked me what would be a good topic, so I pulled off this Chicago case. I like to see my kids learn what liberals do. He fully understood after reading the 2-3 page article that the constitution was violated by liberals. He understood too it was/is not about the gun lobby. It's about a group of concerned citizens who know they've had their rights trampled by crooked liberals and who want to simply be safe in their own homes. He understands people want to and have the right to protect themselves. BTW, he just received his voter reg. card awhile back and have it in our safe. There's one more voting Republican. He turned 18 in November.

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 1 month ago

Look at all the drive-by bayonettings prevented by the Scary Gun Ban that Clinton got passed.

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BrianR 4 years, 1 month ago

Too many morons in this country fantasize about being Dirty Harry, Rooster Cockburn or Jonah Hex. I mock all you fools that believe in conceal and carry and would take a concealed handgun into a bar or some other volatile place if you could.

Or Foghorn Leghorn.

It is taboo to drink and carry.

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 1 month ago

anon1958 (anonymous) says... "SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) says...

"Im not finding anything that gives a citizen a right to own any kind of firearm they want. Handguns are more of a safety liability to a family than any kind protection. It is just dangerous and stupid to pretend otherwise."


The same dysfunctional thought process can be applied to the First amendment.

To police the state is always easier when it is a police state. Exactly why we have a 2nd amendment. Read the federalist papers, particularly #46 by James Madison, the primary author of our constitution.

"The advantage of being armed . . . the Americans possess over the people of all other nations . . . Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several Kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in his Federalist Paper No. 46.)

http://www.constitution.org/mil/rkba1982.htm

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oldvet 4 years, 1 month ago

The foolish will always mock what they do not know and do not understand.

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barrypenders 4 years, 1 month ago

anon1958 is absolutely correct.

Keep Guns out of the hands of people that do not have the 'Self Discipline' to control one. There are alot of 'Good Guys' that carry and too many 'Bad Guys' that carry.

http://www.publicagenda.org/charts/violence-related-firearm-death-rates-race

Stimulus, NRA, and Posercare live unprecedented

Darwin bless you

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ComradeRedRooster 4 years, 1 month ago

"...Mr. Clinton, sir, America didn't trust you with our health-care system. America didn't trust you with gays in the military. America doesn't trust you with our 21-year-old daughters, and we sure, Lord, don't trust you with our guns.." Chuck Heston 1998

Democrats seem to be the ones that can't get out of the past?

"...I simply cannot stand by and watch a right guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States come under attack from those who either can't understand it, don't like the sound of it, or find themselves too philosophically squeamish to see why it remains the first among equals: Because it is the right we turn to when all else fails. That's why the Second Amendment is America's first freedom..." Chuck Heston

Thomas Jefferson wrote, "No man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

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anon1958 4 years, 1 month ago

"SettingTheRecordStraight (anonymous) says...

A "nationwide ownership right" already exists. You'll find it in the Bill of Rights; 2nd Amendment. "

Im not finding anything that gives a citizen a right to own any kind of firearm they want. Handguns are more of a safety liability to a family than any kind protection. It is just dangerous and stupid to pretend otherwise.

Too many morons in this country fantasize about being Dirty Harry, Rooster Cockburn or Jonah Hex. I mock all you fools that believe in conceal and carry and would take a concealed handgun into a bar or some other volatile place if you could.

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SettingTheRecordStraight 4 years, 1 month ago

A "nationwide ownership right" already exists. You'll find it in the Bill of Rights; 2nd Amendment.

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