Carrie Wallace and her husband considered the Bourgeois Pig to be their place.
That’s where the couple met. And that’s where they would go to reconnect late on Sundays after his 48-hour shift at Community Living Opportunities ended.
“My opinion of The Pig was that it was a bohemian sort of place that was really accepting and very inclusive,” Wallace said.
Carrie Wallace, Lawrence, says she’s been told by staff at the Bourgeois Pig that she cannot bring her 11-month-old son, Dmitri, to the bar after 11 p.m. Among the reasons given is that the staff does not feel comfortable with her breast-feeding her son at their place.
That is, until manager Frank Dorsey took her aside to express concerns that she was bringing her 11-month-old son, Dmitri, in after 11 p.m.
“It was really kind of surprising and made me a little angry,” Wallace said.
During the day, Wallace and her son are regulars at the downtown business at 6 E. Ninth St. that’s both a coffee house and a bar. She said she’s not often at The Pig late at night.
“I would really guess it’s once every couple of weeks that we would be there after 11 o’clock at all. And that would just be in and out for coffee,” she said. “We don’t stay a long time or have drinks or act wild and have shots. But it was just something that I always felt should be our choice.”
Dorsey said there were people around Wallace who felt otherwise.
“It’s a busy bar,” he said. “And after 10 o’clock or so, the majority of our business is in alcohol. It can get a little rowdy and people have expressed concerns that it was not a good environment to have a child in.”
There also were concerns about drinking and breast-feeding at the same time, said Dorsey, who emphasized that he supports women’s right to nurse in public.
“Whether or not they are drinking, I think it might be misinterpreted,” he said. “And, I think there is some concern on how others might perceive us.”
Since her son’s arrival, Wallace said, she has ordered just three alcoholic beverages at The Pig: a mimosa, a glass of wine and a beer.
After Dorsey listed breast-feeding among his concerns, Wallace said, she feels uncomfortable nursing her baby there.
“I feel like I am being watched and judged,” she said.
Parents taking babies with them to bars has become a hot-button issue across the country as the emerging generation of parents become more mobile and less willing to shelve their social lives.
In the family-centric neighborhood of Park Slope in Brooklyn, the blogosphere was spinning after bars started banning strollers and children after a certain time of day. Dorsey lived in Brooklyn and remembers what he calls the “semi-humorous, semi-serious campaign” against strollers.
“I kind of agreed at the time with the idea that maybe strollers shouldn’t be in bars after hours,” he said.
But as a father of a 2-year-old girl, his views have changed.
“I’ve got the utmost sympathy for families and sometimes if anyone needs a drink it’s a mother of a toddler or an infant,” he said.
But he does believe a line should be drawn somewhere. Wallace would prefer if that line were a bit clearer and a policy put in place by the business.
Otherwise, she said she feels unfairly singled out.
Comments
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Shifty (anonymous) says…
It's a shame that common sense is no longer common. At 11 pm, a bar is no place for anyone under 18. Especially an 11 month old baby. And if you choose to exercise your right to breast feed your child in a public place, especially a place where alcohol (which lowers inhibitions by the way) is served, you can't complain that others are staring at you. Especially men.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I think you would be a terrible parent because you teach your children that when people misbehave, they are not to blame because they are drunk, instead you must blame someone else.
I judge your parenting skills as poor.
boothillbilly (anonymous) replies…
ivalueamerica, Shifty is spot on. You have misinterpreted his/her point with a riposte about excusing drunkenness. This woman is bringing an 11 month old child to a bar at 11:00pm at night. Does this "mother" think that life starts and stops at her convenience? Does she think that because she is a unique, individual snowflake that we must excuse her negligent behavior? As someone who used to be in bars at 11:00pm frequently (more than once at the Pig), I can say I that I would not want my infants there. Good job the the Pig's manager for taking a stand and calling someone on their poor behavior. Bad show, ivalueamerica.
pizzapete (anonymous) says…
Have to agree with the bartender on this one. No one under 21 at the bar after dark.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
I don't disagree, but they do need a sign.
puddleglum (anonymous) replies…
how bout: "here ye here ye, no morons with children after 11pm?"
c'mon, this would have totally been avoided if you would just elect puddleglum to be your governor and i can pass my sterilization act for people with IQ's less than 110......
vote now, vote pretty, vote puddleglum.
nut_case (anonymous) replies…
~like~
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
It's a good thing you specified that they must have children, or you'd have a hard time getting a drink after 11.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
you would make a terrible parent because you demonstrate a level of judgement and an a nazi point of view of sterilization of undesirables.
I judge your parenting skills as poor.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) replies…
What if you stop at Free State at night and have your child and want to eat does that mean you can't bring you children in?
tanaumaga (anonymous) replies…
after 11 pm...? you betcha.
lgreen17 (Laura Green) replies…
Free state is a restaurant that stops serving meals at 10pm and has a bar menu from 10-12pm when they close. That's the difference.
acornwebworks (Kendall Simmons) replies…
Nope...much as some would like to pretend that. It's as though they think food is snatched right from under your nose at a certain time.
What i want to know is what they think the difference between 10:59 and 11 PM is as regards the "appropriateness" of having kids in the Pig. The difference between these folks and the Taliban? About 8,000 miles.
kernal (anonymous) says…
Carrie, if you "need a drink" so bad that you have to take your 11 month old baby to the bar with you in the middle of the night, you have bigger issues than Frank chastising you.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
kernal, I would judge your parenting skills as poor because you are very judgemental.
laurennoel (anonymous) replies…
For some reason I'm thinking ivalueamerica is the person this story was written about. Judging someone's parenting skills is pretty immature, not really good parent material if you ask me.
sherlock (anonymous) says…
Grow up girl! The atmosphere at a bar in the late evening isnt good for children. Go home after work, or get a sitter to stay with the child! In fact the state could very well frown on this as not being a good parent! Then think of trying to explain why you were there with youre child?/////// Surely you dont want that baby to be placed in a foster home because you are rather juvenile in thinking????
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) says…
As the mother of a young child, I sympathize, but life as you knew it before is over. In a few months, it won't even be worth it to take a toddler in because he'll be all over the place and you'll won't be able to relax, day or night. You might as well get used to the idea now. You don't really want your baby to be in a bar, do you? Doesn't it just seem wrong?
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
I think you really hit the nail on the head. She doesn't want to give up her old life, so she's trying to justify bringing her baby to a bar.
In other words, she's being extraordinarily selfish.
RalphReed (Ralph Reed) says…
@lgreen17, re: your 1320.
You must know Carrie, as the only mention of Baby Dolls is in your post. Where are you at 2300 that you know an ecdysiast simply by seeing her name in the paper? Makes one wonder.
I do agree though that Carrie should not have her baby in the Pig that late at night, however benign the reason.
A question for Dorsey. What's wrong with breast feeding in public? Are you that parochial?
misplacedcheesehead (anonymous) replies…
I suspect Mr. Reed is just a "Boob Man".
sheidrickman (anonymous) replies…
It says in the story that Frank supports a woman's right to breastfeed in public.
AreUNorml (anonymous) says…
parenting gets in the way of all kinds of social fun things, especially for the first several years. But this is the price we pay when we choose the joy of sex and the desire to have a small monster living with us.
Dover (anonymous) says…
It actually says in the story that Dorsey supports women's right to breastfeed in public; it's the mixing of drinking and breastfeeding simultaneously that he is concerned about.
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Dark beers stimulate lactation....I'm just saying.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
That's a myth.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
The lactation consultants at the hospital encouraged me to drink lots of non-alcoholic oatmeal stouts and oatmeal because it's supposed to stimulate lactation, for what it's worth. They said actual beer would be better, but it's obviously not good for the baby so you can't.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
The lactation consultants should perhaps do some research.
"Can drinking an alcoholic beverage help me relax and stimulate milk production?
Alcohol consumption has not been shown to stimulate milk production. Studies have found that babies nurse more frequently, but consume less milk in the 3-4 hours after an alcoholic beverage is consumed."
http://www.llli.org/FAQ/alcohol.html
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Cite what ever you want. Until you've taken a sip of a heavy dark beer, and felt that milk drop, I guess you're just reading.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
I didn't need beer to produce milk. I'd soak a shirt at a baby's cry. Just because you had a similar psychosomatic reaction after a single sip doesn't make beer a galactagogue.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
It's the hops and oats, supposedly, which is why non-alcoholic is supposed to work. The non-alcoholic beer made me thirsty so I drank more water, thus greater milk supply. I'm not convinced it would have worked on its own, but even wives tales have some truth. It'd be interesting to know where it got its start.
iamtired (anonymous) replies…
"It'd be interesting to know where it got its start."
An old wife that sold hops and oats started the rumor.
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
You win.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
I second that.
femmefatale (anonymous) replies…
Its not a myth, my doctor and the nurses in the NICU advised me to either drink a beer or buy the vitamin yeast hops or wheat hops. Its the yeast that works some how. Being that a beer was cheaper than vitamins and i probably didn't even need a whole beer I went with the beer. It worked famously and I was feeding twins!
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
Ah yes. Doctors and nurses have such a great track record when it comes to lactation advice, don't they?
I'm not saying they didn't have good intentions here. I'm just saying that objective research does not support their advice.
"Beer consumption by nursing women altered the sensory qualities of their milk and the behavior of their infants during breast-feeding in the short term. The infants consumed significantly less milk during the 4-hr testing sessions in which their mothers drank alcoholic beer compared to when the mothers drank nonalcoholic beer; this decrease in milk intake was not due to a decrease in the number of times the babies fed. Although the infants consumed less of the alcohol-flavored milk, the mothers believed their infants had ingested enough milk, reported that they experienced a letdown during nursing, and felt they had milk remaining in their breasts at the end of the majority of feedings. Moreover, the mothers terminated the feeds the same percentage of time on both testing days. The mechanism by which the consumption of alcoholic beer by lactating women decreases milk intake by their nurslings remains to be determined."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic...
http://www.achildgrows.com/2009/02/17...
http://www.healthline.com/blogs/diet_...
tubs_of_love (anonymous) replies…
In fact, non-alcoholic beer still has alcohol in it. Probably not enough to really make a difference, but Kansas liquor stores cannot sell anything that does not contain alcohol.
gccs14r (anonymous) says…
It's not just bars, but also restaruants, shopping malls, movie theaters, etc. Infants and toddlers need lots and lots of sleep and will end up with cognitive and developmental problems if they don't get it. Put your kids to bed at a reasonable hour.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
Infants and toddlers need lots of sleep, but they don't necessarily need it between the hours of 7pm and 8am. That baby could take frequent naps or sleep in until the afternoon, and in many cases that baby can take naps in a stroller or sling while the parent shops or eats dinner.
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Never let them out of the crib!!! It's for their own good.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
i suspect you would be a terrible parent because you offer medical opinions and judgements without knowing any facts whatsoever. you do not know the childs sleeping schedule or how much sleep he gets, you just make presumptions. I hope you do not teach your children to be like you.
srj (anonymous) says…
I will agree with the manager on this one. I do agree that breast feeding in public is fine, but men are pigs, so cover up or get starred at. (Not saying it's right, just the truth.) That late at night, Perkins or Ihop or some coffee bar might be the best option.
funkdog1 (anonymous) replies…
Oh come on. "men are pigs, so cover up or get starred at." I assume you meant "stared." There are very few men who would ogle a breastfeeding woman.
Hydra (Roger Ford) replies…
Ha! Wanna bet? :O)`
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I suggest you would make a terrible parents. I hope you do not have children.
A better parent would suggest that instead of blaming the mother because men are pigs, blame the pigs. If you see a man oggling a woman breatsfeeding, confront him, tell him he is a pig and to grow up. Make him feel ashamed and the need to hide, not the mother.
I question your parenting skills.
kusp8 (anonymous) replies…
It has nothing to do w/ breastfeeding, it has everything to do w/ a baby being in a freaking bar! Seriously, wtf!? Use some common sense; 10 (or 11 I can't remember)-close= by law, 21+, open-10 or 11pm= everybody enjoy. I'm not good at math, but that seems pretty dang simple.
cellogrl (anonymous) says…
I definitely agree. With all of the behavior and language at a bar that late at night, definitely not a place for an infant or child to be. I agree with that when it happens at the bar I frequent as well. Isn't there some law that says that kids under 16 can't be in a bar after a certain time anyway?
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
i hope you are not a parent, you are too reactive and bypass the ability to judge a situation individually.
I question your parenting skills.
liberallibrarian (anonymous) says…
I have been at The Pig late at night and seen this woman in there with her baby. I never saw her breastfeeding (and wouldn't be bothered by it)- but, was VERY concerned she had her child in that late. Good job to the mgmt of The Pig for saying something to her.
KEITHMILES05 (anonymous) says…
The woman is bringing this upon herself. It appears she just doesn't get it so the establishment must tell her to get it. Kudos to management for taking to heart it takes a village to raise a child.
scott3460 (anonymous) replies…
"“I feel like I am being watched and judged,” she said."
You are. The village has spoken.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
i hope you are not a parent, you would be a poor one.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
merrill (anonymous) says…
I say leave it to the parents to decide.
Bars don't make irresponsible parents and do not necessarily have negative impacts on children.
In this case it isn't like the parents are making a night of it only dropping by for a moment of relaxation.
If young children should not be in bars what is anybody doing in those locations of ill repute?
After all we read about child abuse taking place in homes not bars.
If the Pig does not want young children in the area post several signs stating such.
The answer to breast feeding is learn some manners and don't stare. Breast milk is the healthiest source of food. And breast feeding is convenient. Public get used to it.
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
It's the business owners legal right as to whom they will or will not serve. If this women wants to drinks around her baby at 11 p.m., she will not be doing so at The Pig.
kjo_shorty (anonymous) replies…
She is not consuming alcohol. That is clearly stated in the article. She is there for a short time for coffee. She has ordered only 3 alcoholic beverages since the birth of her child. Not saying I agree with her having the child there, as I don't. But, she isn't drinking and breastfeeding.
tubs_of_love (anonymous) replies…
Listen to yourself, "She is not consuming alcohol. That is clearly stated...", "She has order only 3 alcoholic beverages since the birth of her child". Yeah, I call b.s. It's pretty easy to turn a 10 into a 3, thats what I would do if I complained to the news about MY social life.
flamingoroad (anonymous) says…
Yes, it's her child and she can raise the child any way she wants. BUT, keep the child out of the bar late at night. It's no place for little ones. Get a sitter or just don't go. You have a responsibility now.
parrothead8 (anonymous) says…
Everywhere else I've lived, you couldn't be in a bar after a certain hour if you were under 21. However, if there is no law to that effect here, I don't see anything keeping her from bringing her child with her unless either she or the business owner decides that she needs to take her business elsewhere.
wxbuggin (Erin Graham) replies…
And in a lot of places with the 'under 21' rule, it's alright to go in as long as you're with a parent. Heck in some places in the country, a parent can take their kid to a bar- and buy them a drink, legally.
In this case, it's a coffee shop, too, and there are no signs restricting children from entering the building.
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
And since there's no law, it can't possibly be a bad idea, right?
debengstrom (Deb Engstrom) says…
I know that people have been reported to SRS for having children in drinking establishments after 8:00 p.m. I don't know where those cases went in terms of investigation, but I do know that it is not looked upon favorably by child protective services.
greenme (anonymous) says…
I wonder who brought this story to LJWorld's attention, the bar owner or the mother? That's one great way to get a lot of unwanted advice....either way.
hilary (anonymous) replies…
Carrie brought it to ljworld's attention.
beatrice (anonymous) says…
Don't drink coffee until you are finished breastfeeding altogether. You are sharing your caffeine with your baby. Certainly don't drink alcohol while breastfeeding.
wxbuggin (Erin Graham) replies…
Ideally, you're right, avoiding caffeine is best. But in careful moderation, isn't proven to be harmful. Besides, there are other drinks at the Pig without much/any caffeine and without alcohol.
I don't know what's in her cup, but she could just as easily be drinking something like a chai, steamer, flavored cocoa, decaf tea, decaf coffee, etc.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
Or she could immediately switch to formula, since a mom enjoying an espresso every once in a while ruins babies for life.
tubs_of_love (anonymous) replies…
Hahahaha!
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
I'm sure you've got tons of peer reviewed literature to support why coffee drinking while lactating is so bad, right?
1029 (anonymous) says…
is this story a joke? why would this lady make a big deal out of this? doing so only makes her look like a lousy parent. it sounds like it's time to grow up and be an adult.
bravo to the pig for saying something. it's a shame that somebody else had to step in to point it out, though, and that she doesnt understand that kids should probably be asleep at 11pm instead of hanging out at a bar.
poor kid. the journal-world should do a follow-up story in 20 years or so.
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Poor kid my rear!!! Oh yeah the poor kid has parents willing to take him or her along. This doesn't read at all as though the parents want to go out and party at the bar and will bring baby along, find a booth to plant the kid in and fall asleep while they go on their happy way partying. This sounds to me like a young family who likes to be out and about and around town, teaching the kid how to interact within a community by the way, rather than being reared up to stare at a screen. And who's to say a kid needs to be in bed by eleven? Generally a child this age will let it be known when it's time for bed. Maybe this kid isn't forced out of bed at 6:20 AM in order to be dropped at daycare. Maybe this family enjoys a life of freedom, liberty and togetherness. It does not sound to me like these parents are endangering this kid in any way. I'm not afraid or ashamed to take my kids anmywhere and never have been. On the other hand, if the kids act inappropriately -- they'll be out all right. And you know the result? Kids who know how to behave themselves in a variety of places. Kids who know how to converse with adults and kids who do not act shell shocked when someone talks to them. A lot of posters here need to pause, take a breath and ---whew -- relax.
KansasPerson (anonymous) replies…
I can see what you're saying from the parents' point of view -- teaching their 11-month-old how to interact with lots of different people, including grownups -- but what about the other people? What if the folks that go there at that hour are not wanting to interact with a baby?
(This reminds me of the not-everyone-loves-your-dog argument that went on at the Farmers' Market comments section a few months ago....)
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
You're right in a way. But, that's where I say, If they aren't behaving correctly, then the kids will be taken home. The kids don't like that, they learn to act correctly. And I have taught my kids that, as archain as it sounds, in some settings, a child is to be seen and not heard. If a dog could be taught that, I wouldn't mind having them at the market. (ok, I really don't care of dogs get to go to the market -- my dog is a BAD dog!!)
Casey_Jones (anonymous) replies…
When my parents dragged me and my brother along to friends' parties we couldn't wait to leave. We never threw tantrums, but it only takes so many times hearing "go in the other room and watch tv" before nagging was positively reinforced with going home. And it didn't take my parents long before they realized they should really hire a babysitter for that sort of thing.
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
So "togetherness" is defined as meeting in a bar after the father finishes working a 48-hour shift.
Got it, thanx.
trufoodie (anonymous) says…
oh please, get over yourself!!
tobe2000 (anonymous) says…
An 11 month old in a bar at at 11:00 PM is ridiculous. It seems like common sense would prevail but since it seems some folks are lacking in that area, it takes someone with common sense (bar owner) to tell them what they are doing isn't a good idea.
“I feel like I am being watched and judged,” she said.
No kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thelonious (anonymous) says…
Sorry, no kiddies in bars late at night.....what the H is wrong with people these days?
When you choose to have a child, you also choose to have your lifestyle change - no whining or crying! If you don't like it, then maybe you should not have had a child.
Thank you, Bourgeois Pig for sticking to some common-sense principles.
silentbranden (anonymous) says…
I think we're all missing the larger story here. If you read between the lines, you can clearly see that this so-called "manager" is nothing more than a puppet of the Trilateral Commission and most likely an avowed fascist. Let's look at the facts:
Exhibit A: No children in a bar after 11 p.m. What? Babies aren't allowed to have a good time?
Exhibit B: Just because an infant is in the most important developmental period in it's life, that doesn't automatically mean a bar is a bad place for it to pass the time. Lots of people have spent much of their life in a bar, such as Charles Bukowski, Edgar Allan Poe and Lindsey Lohan. These people have gone on to lead mature, fulfilling lives.
Exhibit C: This Dorsey guy used to live in Brooklyn. You can do your own math on that one.
Exhibit D: This lady isn't hurting anyone by lugging her infant into a bar late at night to have a few drinks. Sure, the kid will probably end up in protective custody and we'll all end up picking up the tab to raise him, but it takes a village, right?
I think you're all smart enough to see what's going on here. Every day, people like this Dorsey fellow come along and try to take away our personal freedoms. Today, it's no babies in a bar at midnight. Tomorrow, they'll be putting us in concentration camps.
I declare today, 6/16, to be Babies In A Bar day. Show your opposition to this clown. Take your infant to the bar, get hammered, and pay homage to our Founding Fathers.
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
I can't believe you used Lindsay Lohan and mature in the same sentence.
laughingtokeepfromcrying (anonymous) replies…
ouch
sense_of_the_common (anonymous) replies…
great laugh, thanks!
kusp8 (anonymous) replies…
hahahahahaha!!!! That's awesome, definitely worth the scroll.
autie (anonymous) says…
A. why is this in the paper?
B. That is too late to have a kid out at any bar.
3. Nobody cares about breastfeeding. Nobody.
D. That is too late to have a kid out at any bar.
Danged ole drama queen needs to grow up and raise that kid right.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
dulcinea47 (anonymous) says…
If the Pig were just a bar and not a coffee shop as well, it wouldn't even be legal for the kid to be in there, would it? You can't bring your kid into Louise's or whatever.
Kontum1972 (anonymous) says…
what time was that again?
CMM (anonymous) says…
Why is there not a picture in the article? I expected to see a side profile shot of Carrie looking off into the distance while holding her child, with the sun setting off in the background. Of course, she'd also have a pained look on her face. That's an LJWorld specialty for BS fluff pieces like this.
75x55 (anonymous) says…
Bohemian.... ROFLOL!
CMM (anonymous) says…
Is this the same Carrie Wallace as stated in the article? If so, it really clears up the picture...
http://www.kansan.com/news/2007/apr/2...
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Damn her...you are right. She does seem to have a taste for speaking up for liberty and freedom. Foiled again!
CMM (anonymous) replies…
Whether or not the Pig wants her in their establishment with a newborn during drinking hours is not an issue of liberty or freedom. She seems to lack any common sense and she's complaining to a newspaper about not being blessed with it.
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Of course it is within the rights of the establishment to choose who and when can enter. It's also her right to raise her child, without fear of condemnation, or worse yet have a facist government agency scrutinizing her family. I was more referring to the article in the Kansas link as far as freedon goes. But...
1. an eleven mointh old is not a newborn - not as vulnerable physically as newborns.
2. Perhaps her common sense tells her she should be with her child.
3.Perhaps her common sense is that to remain happy and well balanced she should not sacrifice life as she knows it, but rather work to integrate her new addition into a lifestyle she wants to share with her child and family. A lifestyle of living in a vibrant and active community.
CMM (anonymous) replies…
If she wants to raise her child in a bar so that she can remain happy and well balanced, then she is starting out early in the fail department. And yes, I realize that she's not there every night. Heck, according to the article she's only had 3 alcoholic drinks there.
My point is that 99.9% of parents don't bring their children to bars. So when a bar informs her that several of its patrons are uncomfortable with her being there, she should not be surprised. Only a completely incompetent moron would take offense to a drinking establishment having a problem with her being there.
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
She's the more obnoxious version of Lindsey Bluth.
Kontum1972 (anonymous) says…
how choice....LoL...isnt this a great county...
KansasPerson (anonymous) says…
It seems to me that if the Pig is getting flack from other customers, the Pig can do whatever is in its best interests -- i.e. keeping the majority of the customers happy. If the majority of the after-11:00 crowd doesn't want to be hanging out with a baby, then as far as I know, the Pig is within its rights to say something. Don't some businesses have a sign on their door that they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone? Is that illegal?
KawHawk (anonymous) says…
Oh, for pity's sake, lady - that kid belongs in bed, not out on the town !
9070811 (anonymous) replies…
It is 11 oclock with an 11 month infant. Infants do not sleep on our schedule. Especially those who are only awake 8 hrs a day. Infants tend to do the 9-11, 12-3, 3:30-6 and then the same pattern throughout the day.
DrRustinMcGillicuddy (anonymous) says…
To those who think that "it's wrong to tell someone else how to raise their child" - woah. Would you agree with a parent's decision to let a 2 year old ride on top of the car? How about letting a 3 year old walk across town, alone, at midnight? Would you agree that those are dangerous, unfair situations to put your child in, or just parents exercising their rights to do with their children as they see fit? With the media this catching, do you think Child Protective Services will be interested in it?
I sincerely hope Carrie learns from this mistake, because that's what it is. She's put her infant in a dangerous position and seems to be completely oblivious to this, even after talking with the owner and receiving bewildered looks from other patrons. For her child's sake, I hope she stops.
CMM (anonymous) replies…
no no no! If Carrie is to maintain her happiness and balance in life, she needs to be in the Pig late at night. Her 11 month old child should not get in the way of a balanced and focused Chi.
wxbuggin (Erin Graham) replies…
See, if she was taking her kid to Brother's, your argument would hold up. But you're comparing apples to zucchini. You're comparing completely illegal and foolish things to something that is legal.
Have you ever been to the Pig? It's more of a coffee shop that serves alcohol, too. Cozy environment, quiet, for the most part friendly people. Certainly there are 100% dedicated bars in the area that would not be safe for children, as are there 100% dedicated coffee shops that later at night aren't a great environment for a kid.
If she swings by to grab a cup of coffee to go (or even to stay for a little while) be it 3pm or 11pm- that's hardly the same as setting her kid on top of a car and driving around town.
DrRustinMcGillicuddy (anonymous) replies…
Even the manager clearly states in the article, “It’s a busy bar,” he said. “And after 10 o’clock or so, the majority of our business is in alcohol. It can get a little rowdy and people have expressed concerns that it was not a good environment to have a child in.”
So, this quaint, cozy little coffee house, that just happens to sell liquor on the side, is not the same place after 10 PM.
errita (anonymous) replies…
I have been there plenty of times and just because it's not Sandbar doesn't mean it's a good place to take your kid. Besides the fact that it's bad parenting most people do not go to a bar to be around a baby.
consumer1 (anonymous) says…
All I can do is laugh about this... Liberals attacking Liberals. Too freakin funny!!!
rooster (anonymous) replies…
I agree completely. A libertarian would say she has the right to do what she wants and that the bar can do the same. It's time to agree to disagree.
She can find a new bar to take her baby to. (Other places are ok with it)
He can run his bar the way he wants. (Its his bar to run)
Is that so difficult.
Coach_Eric (anonymous) says…
I don't think a kid should be anywhere but in bed, asleep, at that hour. Bar or not.
I do remember when my wife and I took my daughter to the Lyon one afternoon, where she breast-fed her. Neve walked by and hollered "hey, no outside beverages!"
We still laugh about that one...
hilary (anonymous) replies…
ha ha! Gotta love Neve!
whats_going_on (anonymous) says…
I can't decide on this.
I don't really like it when people complain about other parents (unless the parent is doing something abusive, hurtful, etc), however i think this lady is a bit of a moron for having her kid up that late and in a bar. Especially thinking it's cool to breastfeed at the same time. I don't have a problem with people breastfeeding but don't be surprised when people stare. It's not *that* common nowadays, and your boobs are out.
rooster (anonymous) says…
Truthfully, many of these comments come from parents who's kids have broken bones while under their care or their kids have been violent with other kids or grew up to be losers.
The next person who posts a comment on how this kid shouldn't be in the bar better be able to list the accolades or accomplishments their kids have received and how that allows them to be a parental guru.
rodentgirl16 (anonymous) replies…
My kid won a Nobel prize at the age of three. Wrote a book or something. I don't know, I was at the bar...
kernal (anonymous) replies…
Here you go: two grad from high school with 4.0; one grad from KU last year with 3.6 after working way through for five years and already has a good job; the second still working way through with 4.0 so far. One of them drinks occasionally,the other says not have time for it and no drugs. The third one just grad from high school & taking this year off and working until decides what path to take. It wasn't easy. Any more questions?
acornwebworks (Kendall Simmons) replies…
And mine is a wonderful, successful adult who practically grew up in a bar on Cape Cod where, during the winter, there was no place else to go in the small town we lived in, so I took her there when I went to play pool. She never got hurt or in trouble...either there or growing up. The other customers were protective of her. She's now only an occasional drinker.
It didn't hurt my daughter being in a bar after 11 PM and it won't hurt this child, either. I'm sadden by how judgemental some people are being.
biggunz (anonymous) says…
Uh yeah, most bars don't allow kids...especially at that hour. Nice job announcing to the world that you are an idiot!
ivalueamerica (anonymous) says…
There is nothing to show child endangerment or any laws broken, just a bunch of holier than though hipocrits casting stones from their glass houses..
I have noticed many of those casting stones are against intrusive government regulation, government interferance in personal life and assorted other issues contrary to their opinion here.
lovinglife (anonymous) replies…
I have had personal experiences with this woman, when she was putting the safety of her child in danger, so i do question her parenting skills.
laurennoel (anonymous) replies…
Learn to spell ivalueamerica. It's hard to take an opinion seriously when you can't even spell hypocrite correctly.
g_rock (anonymous) says…
I think she should start a blog about her latenight adventures at the Pig with tot in tote. I suggest the title CarrieUndercover.
biggunz (anonymous) says…
BTW, I'm not saying kid should be in bed or that she's a bad mom, just saying it's not at all uncommon for bars not to allow kids late at night...if ever. Why go to the newspaper and complain publicly??? Whether she's right or wrong, most parents wouldn't have their 11 year old in a bar at 11pm.
cloggedjhawk (Wendy magillicutty) replies…
or 11 MONTH old.
tange (anonymous) says…
My business is your business is my business is yours!
tange (anonymous) replies…
... c'mon, sing it with me!
thuja (anonymous) says…
The Bourgeois Pig is well-named.
Irenaku (anonymous) says…
I am shaking my head thinking of all the great people I know who would give anything to have a child but cannot due to problems with ferility. When I hear this kind of stuff it just makes me sick. What. The. Hell. 11pm at night in a bar?!? The fact that she is actually publicly disagreeing with the manager and the patrons is even worse!
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
Judge a little?
whatadrag (anonymous) says…
I feel sorry for her husband with his job and all, but mainly, he has to put up with this dip----.
Guitarzan (anonymous) says…
Why is this news? Why is this in the "newspaper"?
It is not my business how a mother raises a child. It is not my business how a private business chooses to enforce or not enforce local liquor laws about minors being present after a certain hour.
However, it's this kind of gossipy crap that gets people to argue on a comment page like this one, which is populated by banner ads that are sold by ljworld.com. Every time someone clicks on the page, they might just click on a banner ad, which then puts money in the coffers of the proprietors at ljworld.com.
The media manipulates you in large and small ways. Do you feel like you are being exploited?
tanaumaga (anonymous) replies…
you're really bagging on this ' gossipy crap' , and then add some of your own comments? Insert mirror here.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
bearded_gnome (anonymous) says…
“It’s a busy bar,” he said. “And after 10 o’clock or so, the majority of our business is in alcohol. It can get a little rowdy and people have expressed
concerns that it was not a good environment to have a child in.”
There also were concerns about drinking and breast-feeding at the same time, said Dorsey, who emphasized that he supports women’s right to nurse in public.
---welcome you two to the fascist left, they think they know better than you do how to live your life, care for your baby!
will this turn you two into conservatives? bet you wouldn't have been challenged at the Ranch [or whatever its called now] etc.
welcome to the wakep call.
also, please note the power of a woman's breast, even in the uberliberal "drinking establishment!"
tolerance? riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!
you two wanna register Republican now? Sarah Palin *is* a better role model for you anyway.
tange (anonymous) replies…
Geez, gnome, hasn't the "liberal-conservative,"
"Democrat-Republican" thang gotten a little tired?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iPkce...
feeble (anonymous) replies…
So the rights of the individual trump the rights of small business? That seems off message for a conservative.
monkey_c (anonymous) replies…
breast power!!!
i understand Sarah Palin inserted a little more breast power into her routine.
slang4d (anonymous) says…
The comments here are pretty absurd. If you don't know these people, haven't been to the bar in question and don't understand the atmosphere of the bar (which on weekdays is much more like a coffee shop), it's ridiculous to pass judgment.
First off, she clearly stated that she dropped in for coffee. She wasn't boozing it up and hanging out. Sure, 11PM is late, but who says a baby has to go to bed at a specific time of the day/night? What if the baby sleeps over 12 hours and takes a nap but is put down at midnight? omg the baby will die if you put it to bed past midnight!
i suppose she could have just left it in the crib alone while she went out. That's a much better alternative.
As a pregnant woman the assumptions and judgment here make me even more paranoid about having children. Not because I won't be a good mother, because I will be, but because everyone has a GD opinion about raising children and wants to force it on parents that are doing the best they can.
How about going out and lynching actual abusive parents? The ones that can't properly feed their children, hit their children, scream at their children, etc? I think that would be a better use of everyone's time here.
feeble (anonymous) says…
"Carrie Wallace and her husband considered the Bourgeois Pig to be their place. "
You've got an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. It's going to get you into trouble someday.
acornwebworks (Kendall Simmons) replies…
It's a colloquialism, for crying out loud.
lllwll (anonymous) says…
Read autie's post.
Some of you people are just wierd.
0426Roses (anonymous) says…
>> “I’ve got the utmost sympathy for families and sometimes if anyone needs a drink it’s a mother of a toddler or an infant,” he said.<<
Heh!!! Get yer drank on, infants.
lawrencechick (anonymous) says…
Carrie, it would be much better to reconnect with your husband at home, with your baby in his crib. Adults should not have to change their behavior because you inappropriately bring a child to a bar. Parenting = sacrifice, don't have a child if you can't do that.
Eride (anonymous) says…
I just find it funny that she would...
Have the newspaper write an article regarding something she does that almost every single parent would disagree with.
I also find it amusing that the LJWorld even wrote about it. Whether this "mother" believes it or not, her behavior is not acceptable and the only result of this article is to make the public aware of her poor parenting.
rando1965 (anonymous) says…
get real people it's a coffee shop and if she wants to drink coffee or just one drink while nursing there is nothing wrong with that.if you are a buisness owner and looking to open up a coffee shop in lawrence invite all the mothers with children and call it mothers coffee and offer breast milk for your coffee as a creamer it taste much better and is better for you.
tanaumaga (anonymous) replies…
Rando, I thought it would be cool to have some breast milk with my cereal....big mistake.
liberallibrarian (anonymous) says…
"offer breast milk for your coffee as a creamer it taste much better and is better for you." Ummm... No, thanks.
People keep pointing out that The Pig is a coffee shop... but, it's NOT a coffee shop. It's a bar that serves coffee- and that description is especially true after 10 or 11pm. I have BEEN in The Pig when this woman has been there with her baby and she is not just "stopping by" for a quick cup of joe.
When I was there everyone was uncomfortable with the situation, and everyone was concerned for that baby.
rando1965 (anonymous) replies…
i've allways known the pig as a coffee shop i used to go there once a week for coffee they didn't used to sell alcohol.
liberallibrarian (anonymous) replies…
No, I'm fairly certain it has always served alcohol.
thuja (anonymous) replies…
For sure I have gone in there well before 2am and had my espresso order denied because they had turned the machine off for the night.
BigPrune (anonymous) says…
Isn't there a law about minors in a bar, or does this not apply since they also serve coffee?
This lady has a child now, so now she needs to act like a parent and keep her baby out of bars late at night.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) says…
I wouldn't want a child in a 'bar' that I was for many reasons, one being I really don't want to hear a child cry or even goo-goo when I'm relaxing in a bar. People use wild language also - would you want you child exposed to this as normal conversation? Don't think they don't pick up on that stuff even at 11 months old. Their brains are like a sponge - they don't miss anything. I have to agree with this too. Children should not be in a bar at night. Now Restaurant that serve food that happened to have a bar might be an exception.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) says…
I wouldn't want a child in a 'bar' that I was for many reasons, one being I really don't want to hear a child cry or even goo-goo when I'm relaxing in a bar. People use wild language also - would you want you child exposed to this as normal conversation? Don't think they don't pick up on that stuff even at 11 months old. Their brains are like a sponge - they don't miss anything. I have to agree with this too. Children should not be in a bar at night. Now Restaurant that serve food that happened to have a bar might be an exception.
sunshine_noise (anonymous) says…
I wouldn't want a child in a 'bar' that I was for many reasons, one being I really don't want to hear a child cry or even goo-goo when I'm relaxing in a bar. People use wild language also - would you want you child exposed to this as normal conversation? Don't think they don't pick up on that stuff even at 11 months old. Their brains are like a sponge - they don't miss anything. I have to agree with this too. Children should not be in a bar at night. Now Restaurant that serve food that happened to have a bar might be an exception.
g_rock (anonymous) says…
No matter what you feel on this issue, how the heck is this kid going to feel 10 years from now when he googles his name? (if we all still exist then, that is....) He'll already be embarrassed to just *have* parents, let alone read this...
doc1 (anonymous) says…
Grow up, stop complaining and enjoy the fact that people pay attention and care about children that cannot defend oneself from their parents.
tanaumaga (anonymous) says…
Lots of different variables here...at eleven months this child could be walking , crawling , or rolling over. The parents could be professionals, stay at home, or take the kid to daycare.
From my limited experience, we do what works for us...we had a schedule, and at that age , it was in bed at 8pm and up at 5.30 or 6 am.
It is good for kids to be able to adapt to different situations and noise levels....my parenting choices be different than others....but as a consumer, you adhere to the rules of the establishment, or go somewhere else. You don't have to make a ruckus about it.
kristyj (anonymous) says…
video clip of her complaint-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73W7G2...
LadyJ (anonymous) replies…
Ok, that was funny
kernal (anonymous) replies…
Dogs ain't pretty on Meth!
Sigmund (anonymous) says…
This isn't the first public establishment "Scary Carrie" has been banned from. Javadive, Henry's, and Perkins had bans on her, but for juvenile pranks like blowing up condoms into balloons and streaking. Just another stripper with daddy issues and an over inflated sense of self importance.
weegee (anonymous) replies…
She's a nut. There are plenty of stories out there about her.
Grammaton (anonymous) says…
Imagine this:
Multiple people are instructed to write the following sentence: "The tree on the hill is large." The condition is that the sentence must be legible enough to be read and understood by the person who gave the instruction.
The sentence is then written in a variety of ways, including cursive and all capital letters, but in all cases is legible. The people who had been given the assignment met the condition as it was given. So who the hell cares whether they wrote it differently?
How about we reserve judgment until results of an action or actions can be witnessed instead of speculating on what /may/ happen? In the above hypothetical situation, if the instructor had been told that not all people will write the sentence in exactly the same hand, the instructor could easily say, "Well if you write it in flamboyant script, I may not be able to read it, so I don't think you should try to write it that way." Hold on -- you said it had to be legible enough to be read and understood, not that it had to be written according to how you think it ought to be. Even so, you can't predict whether it will or will not be legible even if you have statistics, research, etc. to back it up. The possibility that the sentence will be legibly written by all participants /does/ exist. It is sheer arrogance to think otherwise.
The same goes for parenting and a multitude of other things in life. I spent a lot of time in bars when I was younger because my father was a musician, and I enjoyed being exposed to live music at a young age. (By the way, I find it depressing that the Jazzhaus no longer hosts jazz. Sickening.) There was plenty of alcohol around, and plenty of unseemly folk -- but my parents kept careful watch over me, and I didn't suffer at all from the experience. ...not that I know of, anyway. I'm sure they received criticism, but one thing my parents taught me is that while everyone is entitled to their opinion, it is not always important or relevant. My own opinion included.
I really don't think that what this particular mother does has any real impact on your life or even how you planned out your evening. It'd be nice if people could be a little selfish tonight and just not care about what someone does. The chances of Carrie's child growing up to have some kind of power over you and/or impacting your life in a negative way due to accumulated time spent in a bar before the age of 1 are pretty slim.
Jeez.
Have a good evening, folks.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
“I feel like I am being watched and judged,” she said.
She was always being watched and judged but was oblivious of it, it didn't start because he said something. He was trying to make her aware of what was happening, not causing it. If you had a big rip in the back of your pants and your gross underwear was showing, wouldn't you want someone to say something? Someone mentioned the language at that time of night, wouldn't that be embarrassing if one of his first words was a cuss word? If it wouldn't embarrass her, she has a whole other issue.
Grammaton (anonymous) replies…
"If you had a big rip in the back of your pants and your gross underwear was showing, wouldn't you want someone to say something?"
I find that this is mostly tolerated at Lawrence bars.
Just sayin'.
LadyJ (anonymous) replies…
Eeewww, gotta get that image out of my head. Fields of pretty flowers and butterflies, fields of pretty flowers and butterfliest.
Grammaton (anonymous) replies…
Heh, yep. If I could only point out one to management -- the hairy butt floss underwear showing through ripped pants or the infant -- I'd go with the strangled muppet peering out from the pants catastrophie.
corduroypants (anonymous) says…
Adults used to be adults. Now, go freshen up daddy's Old Fashioned.
Grump (anonymous) says…
This is news? Really?
Shifty (anonymous) says…
Wow! Lots of comments. For some reason, an article I read several years ago came to mind.
A woman who was pregnant had called the newspaper to report loud noise from traffic (I think) that concerned her because it was unhealthy for her unborn child. The newspaper photographer took a picture of her in her front yard. She was smoking a cigarette.
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
I remember that. That was outstanding.
Busted.
whats_going_on (anonymous) replies…
lol :\
pace (anonymous) says…
Once at great harvest the owner said I was too cryptic, in a definite judgmental tone. I didn't care enough about him to question, how ordering bread was cryptic. I still buy there , bread is good, he is just a little weird. As for breast feeding late night at a coffee/bar, well if one is up any how, one might as well have a cuppa. It is not like new parents have a sacred schedule of staying home. I remember when my oldest was cranky, I found taking him out for a drive would shut the little fellow up. I saw McDonalds at midnight. I would have much preferred a coffee shop. If it bothers the drunks the manager was probably smart to say something to her. A lot more profit in catering to drunks in this town, as almost everyone knows.
anon1958 (anonymous) says…
The baby is 11 months old, how the hell would "rough" language have any impact on it? LMAO at the people complaining about this lady and her baby. Also, what the hell do you fools think mammary glands are for anyway, some woman puts them to work in public doing their proper and natural job and Americans freak out!!!! Sad! Pathetic! Laughable! Kansans!
anon1958 (anonymous) says…
The baby is 11 months old, how the hell would "rough" language have any impact on it? LMAO at the people complaining about this lady and her baby. Also, what the hell do you fools think mammary glands are for anyway? Some woman puts them to work in public doing their proper and natural job and Americans freak out!!!! Sad! Pathetic! Laughable! Kansans!
pea (anonymous) says…
Congratulations Carrie! Your story is a smash hit.
Now that you've got our attention, what's really on your mind? Don't unpredictable things happen out on the mean streets? Late at night? In a bar? What would you have done as the proprietor?
rooster (anonymous) replies…
Unpredictable things happen all the time! Even in broad daylight, like getting attacked and attempted rape while riding a bike.
Should we all avoide going out during the day?
notajayhawk (anonymous) says…
To all of you who said there's nothing wrong with what this woman is doing if there's no specific law against it:
You can't legislate away stupid.
iamtired (anonymous) says…
First line in story = first mistake: "Carrie Wallace and her husband considered the Bourgeois Pig to be their place."
Had Carrie considered the fact that it was not her place, that it was indeed a bar, then maybe she would not be struggling with the owner's rules.
Arana (anonymous) says…
A bar, even a coffee shop/ bar is no place for a child. This article did not need to be written, I feel like I'm reading to high school gossip.
Mr_B9 (anonymous) says…
This poor girl should be singled out. Obviously her progressive ideas needed direction. Breast feeding is natural and so is taking a number two and I do not care to see either one in public. The main event was bringing her baby to a bar, how doltish.
rooster (anonymous) replies…
Great association man!!
Taking a number 2 and feeding your kid is almost identical. Loser
pace (anonymous) replies…
Loser should be the one to stay home, If he doesn't want to see a child breast fed. If he stayed home where he belonged then he wouldn't see nuttin. Real people go out and take their kids with them and sometimes feed them. If a mother didn't feed her child when it is hungry then I would criticize. If loser doesn't want to see very normal and righteous behavior such as breast feeding, all he has to do is stay home. What is he up to anyway, go out?
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
I don't want to see you eating in public, either, dude.
bmaestas (Brad Maestas) says…
I didn't think I'd ever see Park Slope mentioned in an LJW article but here it is. It HAS become a big issue there, in NYC in general and I'm sure all over America as more young parents venture out later and later with their offspring in tow. The depressed economy is a convenient excuse for those parents, citing babysitting costs as the main reason they take their kids with them. There was a good article written about it here in NYC a few months ago that did a good job of voicing both sides of the issue. Personally, I don't like to see kids out really late, coffee shops or not, but I also can't impose my opinion on anyone either. The Pig is a bit different because it's not just some dive bar but regardless, it's the hour, not the venue that's the problem here.
denak (anonymous) says…
Here is my thoughts on this:
An 11 month old baby should not be in a bar or any place really, at that time of the night. At 11 months, the child is crawling and could possibly be walking. At the very least, the child is going to be squirming around and want to get down and explore. When he can't, because it wouldn't be safe, the child will start crying as a way to voice his disappointment. Add to the fact that most bar/coffee shops are probably noisy, he will also probably be a little scared which would increase the chances of him crying.
There are places for adults. There are places for children. A bar/coffee shop at 11 p.m. is not a place for children. At 11:00 a.m., possibly, but not 11:00 p.m. Children that age already sleep through the night. They need to be in bed around 7 or 8 because they require more sleep than adults or older children. This isn't an opinion. This is a scientific fact. Dragging a child around at night isn't going to achieve anything except to deprieve the child of a regular sleep routine and make it more difficult for the child to funtion the next day and when junior throws himself on the ground and throws one heck of a temper tantrum, this will be why.
As for people being judgemental, I don't think most of the posters are. I think what you hear is the voice of experience. Sleep-deprived children are not happy little creatures and if they aren't happy, mom certainly isn't happy. I'm almost willing to bet that mom, dad and child were in bed early the next night.
Dena
P.S.As for the breastfeeding issue, thow a blanket over yourself and breastfeed. However, you shouldn't be drinking at all...even 3 drinks in 11 months. If you are drinking,your baby is drinking.
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
And that includes caffeine. On what planet was any of this a good idea?
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
A baby at 11 months old can easily be content in a stroller, high chair, or sling for the short amount of time she claims they spent in there. Some kids are bothered by noise, and some are not. A baby at 11 months often takes long naps during the day and may be awake at that hour, or the mom and baby might be night owls and sleep in.
I can't say that I disagree about bars not being appropriate places for babies, but there's not enough evidence presented in this article to say that the baby was tired, fussy, scared, or sleep deprived.
errita (anonymous) says…
what an idiot. It's a BAR. Other people do not go to a bar at 11 pm to be around babies. What are you doing with a baby out that late anyway? I get so tired of going into Wal-Mart late at night and seeing little kids running around in there. No one should have a kid out that late. If the parent or child is ill and they need to run to Walgreens for medicine I could understand. Sit on your front porch and reconnect or get a sitter.
TopJayhawk (anonymous) says…
Children that small need to be in bed by eight or eight-thirty.
Kids need sleep and a predictable routine most importantly a regular early bedtime.
This is poor parenting pure and simple.
rooster (anonymous) replies…
Please post all of the amazing accomplishments your children have under their belt that can be directly correlated to the time they went to sleep at 11mo.
Eurekahwk (anonymous) says…
Every establishment in Lawrence that has the word "Bar" in it becomes just a bar come nightfall. It is a college town afterall. For example, "It's Brothers" is one of the most packed bars in town on weekends. And it stays pretty busy during the week. But during the day, it is "It's Brothers Bar and Grill". Now, tell me how many of those young college coeds do you think are lined up on a Friday night for the burgers?
And back to the main point, she is taking a baby into a bar at 11:00 at night when she should have him safely tucked away at home.
Armored_One (anonymous) says…
Oh please. How about everyone get a freaking grip here and stop to think for a little bit.
I take my kids outside frequently in the middle of the night. We watch the stars, and they hear about the stories behind the constellations, which encouraged all 3 of my kids to dive that much further into reading just so they could keep up with the stories I tell them.
We also stop and listen to the night and try to figure out what is moving around, and when they get it right, they get 50 cents. My 6 year old daughter knows the difference in the sounds an opposum and a racoon makes most of the time, and THAT is an accomplishment to get a 6 year old to be quiet for any reason for more than 5 minutes at a time. LOL
Does that make me a -gasp- bad parent for trying to expand my children's existences? We do this at 2 and 3 in the morning every few days.
My wife works overnights, so I don't get to spend a great deal of time with her during the day, so I understand this woman's desire to see her husband once in a while. Granted, the whole combining alcohol (spectators) and breast feeding is probably not the best scenario to be in for this woman. Common sense works on an inverse curve with alcohol, and the more there is of the latter in the system, the less there is of the former.
That is as close as I will get to chastizing this woman. She's obviously a damned sight more committed to her relationship with her husband than most people are, and reasonably concerned about her child because she's keeping her eyes directly on the child, instead of just stepping out and leaving someone else to watch the wee one for a bit, not that it's easy to find a babysitter at those hours.
If she was going in and getting her drink on, yeah, bounce her butt straight out the door, but she is going in for coffee!! Big freaking deal. Sounds more to me like the owner of the Pig is more concerned about his business than personal freedoms, but I can't fault him much for that one. Tough times as it is without rocking the boat.
You want to complain about "bad parenting", go to Walmart and heckle the people that take their kids in there at midnight.
Shifty (anonymous) replies…
Taking your kids out at night to look at the stars, and to listed to nocturnal animals is very cool. To be fair, does that really compare with taking a baby into a bar at 11 pm? If she had contacted the newspaper about taking her child into the yard at 11 pm and the neighbors complaining, the article probably would have never been written.
lgreen17 (Laura Green) replies…
Walmart and watching the stars..much different than sitting in a crowded bar. Not much kids can learn there after 11pm.
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
And there's the crucial difference, thanks.
TopJayhawk (anonymous) says…
Hyperactivity. Poor school performance. All of this can be attributed to a chaotic home life. I assume your kids sleep at some point before you drag them out of bed to look at critters?
Maybe your six yr old daughter is so quiet because she is half asleep.
Make excuses all you want. Kids need to get their sleep and have a predictable routine.
independant1 (anonymous) says…
Honeeeeeeee, it's 2 o'clock. Time to feed jr. let's go down to Louise's for last call.
been_there (anonymous) says…
I believe the article says the owner "expressed concerns" it doesn't he said she couldn't come in that late or breastfeed. She says she now feels watched so evidently she is still going there, so again he didn't tell her to stay out. If he had, then I could see her going to the news, but he didn't so why drama queen act? What's she going to do when some drunk comes over and asks if he can have a drink too, call Channel 5 news?
LarryNative (anonymous) replies…
Even if the mgr asked her to leave, is this newsworthy? Patrons are asked to leave businesses on a daily basis. It is the business owners right to not serve anyone for any reason (they just cant say what the reason is or they might get sued).
been_there (anonymous) says…
What I don't see is any quote in the article or input from hubby. Did he decline to be interviewed, or did he not know she was going to the paper. He certainly hasn't gotten on here to defend her honor, one has to wonder why?
number3of5 (anonymous) says…
I may be a little late in getting on this morning, but this story and all the comments are a little out of proportion. As to the issue of breast feeding in public, most of the young mothers of today do not just flop out a breast and pop it into the childs mouth. They use a cover of some kind. There are a lot of different styles, of just a blanket to cover themselves. As for an infant being out after 11pm, to me, that is a different issue. A parent should have a right to take their children anywhere with them, but this late at night is not good for any child who is still in parental control. If you start an infant off with an eight o'clock bedtime, he will go to bed on time for the rest of his life. Proper sleep helps promote better health and better grades in school. If the parents need time out together, a sitter should be hired or they should do their drinking of coffee, or alcoholic beverages at home.
number3of5 (anonymous) says…
I may be a little late in getting on this morning, but this story and all the comments are a little out of proportion. As to the issue of breast feeding in public, most of the young mothers of today do not just flop out a breast and pop it into the childs mouth. They use a cover of some kind. There are a lot of different styles, of just a blanket to cover themselves. As for an infant being out after 11pm, to me, that is a different issue. A parent should have a right to take their children anywhere with them, but this late at night is not good for any child who is still in parental control. If you start an infant off with an eight o'clock bedtime, he will go to bed on time for the rest of his life. Proper sleep helps promote better health and better grades in school. If the parents need time out together, a sitter should be hired or they should do their drinking of coffee, or alcoholic beverages at home.
number3of5 (anonymous) says…
I may be a little late in getting on this morning, but this story and all the comments are a little out of proportion. As to the issue of breast feeding in public, most of the young mothers of today do not just flop out a breast and pop it into the childs mouth. They use a cover of some kind. There are a lot of different styles, of just a blanket to cover themselves. As for an infant being out after 11pm, to me, that is a different issue. A parent should have a right to take their children anywhere with them, but this late at night is not good for any child who is still in parental control. If you start an infant off with an eight o'clock bedtime, he will go to bed on time for the rest of his life. Proper sleep helps promote better health and better grades in school. If the parents need time out together, a sitter should be hired or they should do their drinking of coffee, or alcoholic beverages at home.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
I also took my infants out with me at 11 pm on the occasional shopping trip, and my now school age children sleep just fine at earlier bedtimes today. Guess there's still plenty of time to ruin my kids for life in some other way. Perhaps I'll do it by making a different decision about chores, allowance, or which bedtime stories to read. I'm sure everyone here who isn't their parent can tell me how I could have done it all better.
bd (anonymous) says…
This lady is a joke!
Loading the kid up with her own java milk!
rando1965 (anonymous) replies…
java milk.thats it thanks for naming the new coffee shop in town.nothing wrong with caffene it is well filtered before it reaches the milk.
ashamedofyou (anonymous) says…
Yet again, I'm amazed by this place and want to move.
Breastfeeding is wonderful! I nursed my son. It's more heathy, less expensive, etc etc etc...I even nursed him in public places but with such discretion that I truly doubt anyone noticed. If they did they never paid attention at all. however, i never ever ever nursed at a bar! in fact, the entire time I nursed, if i had an alcoholic drink, even a wine after dinner, after my son was asleep and not going to be feeding for the night, I "pumped then dumped" because I didn't want to risk it getting to my child. This woman has the right to breastfeed in public, I will agree with her on that. but really?! I mean does she seriously think it's in the best interests of her childs safety and well being to be in a bar that late at night? Any setting where alcohol is being served is not necessarily the safest setting. Take note, I also didn't take my son to wedding receptions that served alcohol either and the majority of the guests were my friends! It's just not the safest thing to do.
I am so, so tired of living in a town with dirty-feet people who always have something to bi*ch and complain about. Get a life!! or better yet, make sure your son's is a good one and keep him out of bars, at least until he's mature enough...maybe 2 or 3? Ridiculous!
ashamedofyou (anonymous) replies…
whoa ljworld...you changed most of my capital letters to lowercase and made my formatting/editing look weird.
CWGOKU (anonymous) says…
They are called "babysitters", hire one for your nights out.
gl0ck0wn3r (anonymous) says…
This story brings the lolz. Yes, this woman is being oppressed! She's being judged! We need some sort of city ordinance that stipulates hipster parents can have their kids out late in bars without being judged the the non-bohemians!
Yeah... Is there any common sense left in the world? Any? Not only is she complaining about being judged - which she is - but then she opens herself up to more of the same by running to the LJW to complain that a local business has set some boundaries. Lawrence faux progressive parents ahoy!
consumer1 (anonymous) says…
Ashamed, don't let the door hit you in the Keister, bye bye.
Please move and take Carrie with you.
snap_pop_no_crackle (anonymous) says…
The Pig has asked folks not to come back before......
consumer1 (anonymous) says…
Oops sorry ashamed. I meant please don't go!! we need more people with common sense in Lawrence. Sorry.
Just have carrie and her freak show leave town.
ashamedofyou (anonymous) replies…
chuckle....finished reading the rest of my comment, didn't ya? ;)
StirrrThePot (anonymous) says…
I just can't think of any earthly reason I'd bring a child of any age to a bar, regardless of the hour. A bar and grill eating establishment for dinner, sure. My kids have been to Free State but never past 8:00. I like the Pig, I'll take my kiddos there and have taken them into Z's Coffee house before but we're talking regular daylight hours here. There's taking your kid places and getting them used to being in social interactions and situations early--that part is good--but at a bar?? At 11pm?? No. Anyone who doesn't see something wrong about that needs their head examined.
kansaskate (anonymous) says…
Wait - is the only issue that the owner "expressed concern" about the fact that she was bringing her son in late? What a ridiculous thing to warrant an entire article. Careful what you complain about, Carrie - it's a slippery slope. You're not always going to be satisfied with other's opinions and the more things you find to make a stink about, the less people will take you seriously when you do have a credible issue.
The_Original_Bob (anonymous) says…
"The Pig has asked folks not to come back before......" Snap.
Oh, goodnesss. Now that is a trip down memory lane.
Long live Girlfriend.
jimmyjms (anonymous) says…
Thank goodness Ms. Wallace had the courage to alert the media over this incident, lest we be deprived of all the stellar parenting advice from the peanut gallery.
young62 (anonymous) says…
Is there anything wrong with just going home to your family when your 48-hour shift ends? Babies should be in bed at this hour, and these parents need to understand that the child comes first - NOT YOU - and you just don't go out at this hour with a small child. Sorry..... Aside from that, I have raised three children (all are in their 20s now), breastfed all three of them, and if you're going to be breastfeeding in public - its really easy. Just cover up! Problem solved.
chucklehead (anonymous) says…
Someone called the police to come check out a child in need of care at the Replay last Friday during the early show. There were kids everywhere but I heard from DH that a woman had a baby in a carrier and kept walking off and leaving it.
11 pm is not the time to take your baby to a bar/coffee shop, or most places. I am amazed how many little kids I see being dragged in Checkers late at night, but when people work weird schedules and have no one to leave their children with, I kind of understand it, and can forgive it when school is not in session - but during the school year? C'mon!
Too many people having children who can't put their children's welfare first.
Prairielander (anonymous) says…
Who decides what is an appropriate bedtime? Kids that age get as much sleep as they need.
The Pig should have the right to set any rule regarding patrons. If they don't want kids in there, let it be known.
Now a story. I grew up in the northeast in a diverse ethnic area. Much of people's social lives revolved around the neighborhood tavern. Entire families would show up. Parents would drink (and yes, god forbid, smoke) in in the bar. Kids watched TV, played pool or other games. Sometimes we just sat and talked with the adults. Different times, I guess.
chucklehead (anonymous) says…
I had a friend in from Philly who was completely freaked to see kids in a sports bar in their uniforms after a game, playing video games and eating with their parents. I thought nothing of it on a Saturday night.
WiseOne (anonymous) says…
What about the people that have already raised their children. The ones that have sacrificed and stayed home putting their children to bed at a decent hour and doing what you should do to raise a healthy child. The last thing I want to hear when I go out is a crying fussing child. And I mean when I am paying out the nose for a meal or drinks at that hour in a bar. There should be NO children in a bar after 9 or what ever the set time is. Go home and raise your kids like you should.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
Hey, I'm as irritated as the next person when I pay money to go the movie theater and someone has a crying baby there, but I don't remember reading in the article that the baby in question was crying or fussing.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
with that hateful attitude, I would suggest if you had children, they would be in danger because of the way you would teach them hate, judgement and intolerance. I question your parenting skills.
Menazort (anonymous) says…
Breastfeeding, like urination and defecation, falls in the category of human bodily excretion. Social norms in this culture are clearly directed toward keeping such excretions private and contained. The breast feeder in question doesn't seem to be making a culturally subversive case for bringing her bodily oozings into the open on any discernible philosophical grounds, unless one wants to count complaining and groundless sense of entitlement. Therefore, I have no sympathy for her complaint.
She has joined the breeder world. If she wishes to reap the rewards of this culture (e.g. social controls, adequate food supply, infrasturcture, state education system later on, etc.), she needs to breast feed in private and keep her breeder lifestyle out of the faces of people who simply wish to drink and cavort in the exclusive company of other adults.
As 30 something hipsters begin breeding in greater numbers, we will see more of this petty strife. Their choice to procreate puts them at odds with their former pretentious, pampered lifestyle. They want both and will whine about checks to smug air, lazy, commercially and superficial hedonistic pursuits.
Disgusting.
Majestic42 (anonymous) replies…
You just used the word hipster, pretentious, pampered, smug, commercial, superficial, and hedonistic in the same sentence. awesome.
You just described Lawrence. Well done.
funkdog1 (anonymous) replies…
You may think that public breastfeeding is disgusting, but guess what? More and more women are breastfeeding and it's LEGAL in almost every state in this nation, unlike public urination or defication. So boo hoo for you. You have clearly never taken care of a baby and have no idea what you're talking about.
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
We need designated public place for breast feeding, a breast feeding park would be a good idea.
If we had a brest feeding park then things would be swell.
funkdog1 (anonymous) replies…
Heh, heh. "Swell."
puddleglum (anonymous) replies…
I suggested this once at a city council meeting and I was called a "boob".....
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
A woman in Kansas has the right to breastfeed in public anywhere she has a right to be. It's the law. If you don't like it, I suggest you find someplace private to be until you can act like an adult instead of an overgrown child. Or maybe you could get a nursing blanket to put over your head when you're out in public.
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
We need a designated place for smoking. A smoking park is a good idea.
If we had a smoking park then things would really be swell.
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
Just for the record. I was b-fed in public, all 5 of my siblings were too. My daughters breast fed their babies in public, my daughters in law same. Did have an aunt that thought it was a private thing to do but she was a bit daft if you know what I mean. Me? perhaps you are spot on, maybe I'll never grow up (peter pan).
Raised on farm/ranch for a large part of my early life. Two herford bulls, 120 brood cows. 27 horses, two stallions, a passle of chickens, a burro/gelded, corn tassling, local promiscuous school marm all had certain impact on my view of world. Socialized partly in NE US and out of country, did get a glimpse of other cultures over a span of that 20 years. Lighten up, life is too short.
I am just an old country boy in a big town trying to get along. I have been eating pretty regular and the reason I have been is because I have stayed an old country boy. (Will Rogers)
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
a simple "you are a boob" woulda sufficed
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I pray you are not a parent, you children would be in danger to have a parent with your attitude.
vavs0929 (anonymous) replies…
I judge your posting skills as poor. Stop saying the same thing and stop telling people they would make bad parents. I PRAY that you're not a parent--you'd be teaching your child to judge others simply by their response in an online forum.
estespark (anonymous) says…
Dave Chappelle said a baby on the corner at 3 am means you are in a bad neighborhood.
Is there an opportunity to apply similar logic here.
bigpicture (anonymous) says…
Man you people are judgy. I read this "article" this morning and can't stop thinking about it.
Why does any sort of morality enter this argument (and, at bottom, is this even a story)? The Pig is a private establishment and clearly they don't want their primary nighttime clientele to be scared off by the sense that it is becoming a mother/baby hangout. It's a business decision. 'nuf said. I guess the Pig would rather these parents rendezvous at Perkins than patronize a local business that also serves coffee and non-alcoholic drinks late into the night.
As lame as THAT may be, drop the holier than thou attitude. If you think this behaviour is questionable than stop by the Replay at any Sunday afternoon (kid-friendly hours!) and watch the highly mobile young children frolicking amongst unquestionably drunk parents.
Small babies can be asleep or awake at anytime of night or day. Breastfeeding in public is a non-issue. Stop being so parochial - and think about actually living the "diversity" and "community" that we claim to be so proud of. The reality is so far from the lip service.
As for safety, Maybe this woman should take her baby on an afternoon walk on the bike trail near the Clinton Lake sports complex some afternoon in broad daylight, and at an "appropriate" children's hour. What harm could befall them there?
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
Well said.
lawrencenerd (anonymous) replies…
Yeah, cause it is so safe to let your kids frolic around the filthy replay around a bunch of drunks in the afternoon. I've seen people letting toddlers walk barefoot on that floor, and you couldn't pay me to take off my shoes and walk around on that patio. Lets not forget how irritated many patrons get by these frolicking children. The bar isn't a jungle gym, but I see parents letting kids treat it like one. Believe me the last thing you want to deal with when you are trying to relax is somebody's child running around you screaming and climbing on things.
Bars are adult establishments. I don't care what time of day it is, if I'm at a bar that doesn't serve food in a family setting like freestate, I will curse, talk about completely inappropriate subjects for children, and not care if I'm offending your parental sensibilities. If you want to go get hammered, get somebody to watch your kid. Whatever time of day it is, the bar is an inappropriate place for children.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
you are very exagerated and mellow-dramatic. That shows you to be dishonest and hysterical. I hope you do not have children as your parental skills are clearly not good and your children would be in danger.
lawrencenerd (anonymous) replies…
What part is exaggerated exactly? There is even a sign up at the replay that says wear sandals at your own risk, yet people let their kids walk around barefoot there. That is bad parenting. Taking your kid to the bar and letting them run around (yes, they do, I've seen it many times) and not watching them closely while you are drinking? That is bad parenting. Getting drunk in public while no sober adult is there to watch your children? Bad parenting.
I don't take children to the bar, I take them to the park. I take them to the library. I take them to the pool. Prairie park nature center is another great place to take children. Why? Because those are appropriate places for children to be. I don't need to drink so badly that I neglect the children in my care and take them to a place that is solely designed for adult entertainment.
Also, try using capital letters and spelling correctly. Another great thing you could teach your child instead of getting drunk and parking them in front of a bar top game that features, among other things, nearly naked women.
kernal (anonymous) replies…
Well, Replay will no doubt be seeing an increase in their liability insurance.
snoozey (anonymous) says…
It is no more appropriate to have infants at a bar than to have drunks hanging out at your childcare center. It's not rocket science - it's called good parenting - sorry if it's not trendy enough for you. Ask your social work or practicing psychology friends or any parent that has successfully raised kids if need be. Having kids out late at a bar is poor parenting, poor decision making, inconsiderate to other patrons and, frankly, just plain stupid.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
you would be a terrible parent. you are highly reactionairy and exagerated and that suggests you will lie to make a point. I hope you do not have children.
tubs_of_love (anonymous) says…
Well I for one am glad that this story is online, it gives Frank a chance to check something other than his facebook. 9 times out of 10, when I'm at the Pig, that is what he is doing. Just saying.
DrRustinMcGillicuddy (anonymous) says…
Let's say, despite this parent's obvious shortcomings in what is acceptable bar/infant etiquette, that little Dmitri grows to be a teenager. In 15 years, how do you think he will feel about this situation? Glad that, before he could walk or speak, his identity was posted online by his mother, and that his presence in a bar after 11 was the central debate in an argument about acceptable parental behavior? If given the choice, do you think Dmitri would prefer his mom publicly breast feed him at a bar, or privately at the comfort of his own house? (I think the breast feeding and late night bar escapades are two completely separate situations, but it's still something that should be given thought to). I mean, I'm glad my mother didn't take me to a bar, cause a scene, and have the local newspaper write about it.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I hope you are not a parent if you teach your child the most important thing is what other people whisper about you behind your back or how you are judged.
A good parent would teach their children to rise above it. I question your parenting skills.
DrRustinMcGillicuddy (anonymous) replies…
Thanks for calling my parenting skills into question; I question your basic understanding of how the world actually works. Is it fair to the child to be exploited like this? Did his name have to be used? Did his mom have to make this obviously trivial and legally sound decision by the bar owner her personal crusade? Did his mother really not stop to think about how this would affect his life, or was she only fixated on herself?
If you would have cared to actually interpret the words from my last post, you would have noticed that I didn't mention anything about "what other people whisper behind your back". I wrote about the child himself. His future should be taken into account. His feelings, his emotions. But, for the sake of your understanding, let's think about that scenario. You can't just tell someone to not feel uncomfortable, or embarrassed, or happy, or sad. That's why their feelings, emotions. And let's face it: In the real world, it isn't summer year round, gas doesn't smell like perfume, and every person you meet isn't looking out for your best interests. Occasionally, someone might deride you. If you happen to be able to deal with that in a healthy way, then congratulations. But when a kid has been picked on to the point of suicidal thoughts or actions, are you just going to tell them to "rise above it"? Don't worry about it? It would be nice if we could just not worry or care about some things, but we do, because they are inherently fixated to our natural characters as human beings. And, in my opinion, telling a kid to "rise above it" is a cop-out to actually dealing with a situation.
Grammaton (anonymous) says…
I watched the movie Idiocracy tonight. SCARY.
WID (anonymous) says…
who at the LJW red-lighted this as a "news" story? walter cronkite could still defecate on this style of reporting years after his passing. sounds to me like carrie wanted to try to " call in the big guns" but was pretty much shot down by the readers commenting. awesome work, carrie. what's next? calling a KC tv station about the same stuff? oh yes, you did that too. way to make yourself look look even more petty and dumb. methinks you will lie a bit to make it sound better for the KC piece.
faceit (anonymous) says…
Now there is regular stupid and then there is the really deep, to the bone stupid, that wants to wave a flag and shout to the world, "Hey, no one is more stupid than me!"
\I really wish there was a way to weed out those that shouldn't be breeding.
Mabel01 (anonymous) replies…
Couldn't agree more!
ridinthefence (anonymous) says…
As a frequent customer of Free State I can only say I have witnessed tons of kids being dragged in and out of the establishment and way, I mean way, after the reasonable time to have the child out at all. Irritating at best. The place is popular, I understand that, that is why I am there, but you know when you bring a child (or two or three) to an overcrowded atmosphere where people are waiting 45 minutes just to get a table and expect them to behave like little adults, well I am annoyed. Its not the childs fault that you have dragged them out way past their quiet times or bedtimes and then yammer at them to behave when they are fussy. Come on people. I see this almost every time I go there.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I hope you are not a parent.
lawrencenerd (anonymous) replies…
Everybody that says they don't want to bring children into adult situations for the past several comments on this thread you have accused of being a bad parent.
What exactly is wrong with keeping children away from adult establishments? Do you think they should be fed ice cream for breakfast and allowed to stay up as late as they want too? I sincerely hope you are not a parent, because clearly you have some twisted idea as to how a little person with a developing mind should be exposed to the world.
Children need to be nurtured and shouldn't be exposed to things they aren't ready to understand, like drunken bar culture. Children will learn things whether you are actively guiding them or not, and the message it sends to your child when you take them to a bar to drink is that alcoholism is normal, and shirking your responsibilities, like attending to your child, is normal. That isn't to mention the other adults around talking about sex, violence, drugs, and god knows what else. Children are like sponges, they absorb all the things they hear the adults talking about around them. They shouldn't be dealing with things like that until they are at the very least teenagers.
DrRustinMcGillicuddy (anonymous) replies…
ivalueamerica doesn't live in the real world.
tange (anonymous) replies…
Dr...cud, et al., are incapable of transforming theirs.
kernal (anonymous) replies…
After reading your last three posts, I have to assume you are:
1) A teenager going through the "my parents don't know sh*% stage of life
2) Not a parent
3) A parent who would benefit parenting classes offered locally
4) A really bad parent who doesn't give #@$)%&^
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
And we really, really hope you are not a parent.
Jane (anonymous) replies…
Porch Person, crawl back under your rock. Your MO is obvious.
snoozey (anonymous) replies…
It is certainly obvious that you lack the judgement to parent -please go back to your meth lab or wherever your fantasy world resides.
Ward (anonymous) says…
I did not expect to see this article taking such a severe right turn. The conservative bourgeois pig has spoken. The pig might consider moving to a glass house.
LAME.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
I hope for Carrie's sake this does not become an issue with the city commission and an ordinance is passed saying no children in bars or restaurants with bars after 10 pm. Boy parents will be mad at her then.
tange (anonymous) says…
Misopedism... alive and unwell in sunny Lawrence, Kansas.
What darkness is it that descends nightly on our fair city which renders it inappropriate for *families* who are not constrained by your narrow sense of time ( and place ) ?
LMNOP (anonymous) says…
I have 2 small children and I enjoy going to the bar just as much as any individual, however I do not take my children to the bar with me. It's not appropriate. I'm not saying that after dark is any excuse for adults to misbehave, but it's a bar. After dark at a bar is when most adults are enjoying a little time away from their children. Do people get carried away? Absolutely it's their time to unwind. That's why bars are bars and family restaurants are well you get the picture. Grow up sweet heart. If you want to have a drink there's nothing wrong with that. Get a sitter or plan a night where you and your spouse take turns. I stay home with the children while he goes & has a drink and next time he stays home. This way we both get some social time & stay connected with our friends. Atleast the bar owner was nice enought to approach you about it politely instead of just kicking your dumbass out of the bar.
PopcoRN (anonymous) says…
I think taking any baby or child anywhere in downtown Lawrence at 11 pm is not a good idea. On any night, but especially on weekends, there are just way too many drunk college kids (and drunk non-college kids) and I wouldn't feel comfortable with my kids being around that.
From the way this article is written, I got the feeling that adding the "I feel uncomfortable while breastfeeding in public" part was thrown in almost as an afterthought, to add creditibility to the topic and perhaps get a following of supporters who would be outraged over the breastfeeding issue and forget about the "I'm out drinking at 11 pm and taking my kid with me" part.
I'd feel uncomfortable breastfeeding in public at 11 pm in a small bar filled to maximum capacity wiith people drinking alcohol myself. My guess is the uncomfortable stares she's getting aren't from people thinking, "Why is she BF in public?" but rather "WTF is that lady doing in here with a baby at 11pm??"
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
I am still unclear on whether she was asked to not bring the child in late at night. The story says nothing of the sort but the caption of the printed newspaper says they actually told her she couldn't bring him in after 11. So which is it, was she told she couldn't bring him in or were there just concerns? There is a huge difference.
tbaker (anonymous) says…
This is not a question of whether or not taking a child to a bar at 11:00pm is a good idea. It’s not about parenting choices. Frankly, I think those rendering that kind of judgment on this couple should mind their own business. This is question about what is best for the owners of the Bourgeois Pig and what they believe is in the best interests of their business. Mr. Dorsey, and every other business owner, has the right to run their business as they see fit. It’s their money and their sweat. It’s the sum of their choices whether they succeed or fail. If the Bourgeois Pig chooses to discourage mothers with breast-feeding infants – so be it. If they wish to NOT post a policy and simply handle patrons they feel are a detriment to their business personally, like was the case here, so be it. If Mrs. Wallace feels watched, judged, or otherwise unwelcome, she can vote with her feet and take her business elsewhere. That’s the beautiful thing about our free market. Maybe this will create a “new mothers-with-infants” bar and grow our local economy, or perhaps give the babysitting business a shot in the arm. I believe the owners made an informed choice, and in the interests of the majority of their customers reluctantly expressed their concerns to Mrs. Wallace knowing, regrettably, she may be upset and never come back. Such is life when your money and your hard work are on the line with every decision you make.
raerae (anonymous) replies…
Exactly! This is the whole point, not this mother's choices.
And no, I am not a parent, by choice.
I know I would be a lousy one, my self-centeredness would get in the way of properly raising a child.
I don't like children in places where I go to socialize late at night with other adults.
These are my opinions .. go ahead, ivalueamerica.. judge me.
Napoleon_Dynomite (anonymous) says…
That's right! She should grab her child, march right out of there and into the Flamingo Club. Then she can enjoy her favorite beverage and so can the kid!
been_there (anonymous) replies…
LOL, pretty good, thought of several remarks but figured I had better not.
tange (anonymous) replies…
Napoleon_, you're a Dynosaur.
vega (anonymous) says…
Parents who drag their babies and toddlers into bars at night are selfish ("my fun comes first:"). This discussion shouldn't be about breastfeeding which is a perfectly normal, natural and good thing for baby - this is about parents forgetting that their kid needs a good uninterrupted night's sleep, instead of a nap or two in a loud, crowded place, a bar or not a bar. So kudos for Carrie's breastfeeding, but thumbs down for her and her husband not providing a peaceful night for their little one..
gl0ck0wn3r (anonymous) says…
This is one of those articles that people send to friends living outside of Lawrence to prove how crazy Lawrence actually is.
independant1 (anonymous) replies…
L'ville doesn't have the market cornered on 'crazy'.
workinghard (anonymous) says…
On the three times Carrie had a drink, did her husband have a drink also? Did they walk home then? Maybe they didn't drink and drive, but you have to wonder about the parents who bring the kids to the bar and drink. I know of at least one person who, some years back, called the police after seeing a mother who had quite a few drinks in a bar, take her kids and drive off in a car. You wouldn't believe how many times I've seen drunk parents pick their kids up at school in a car.
pace (anonymous) replies…
Shame on you workinghard, you regularly see drunk's driving and you do nothing. People like you are the real problem. The do nothings but complains a lot. You should of taken the keys from those drunken parents picking their kids up from school. What kind of bad schools, have drunks driving around them. If some drunks were buzzing around the school my kids went to. I would act, not save it as an interesting anecdote. Shame on you.
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
Never said I didn't try to do anything about it, shame on you. The police said they have to see them do it themselves. They can stake out the school, but they just lay low for a couple of weeks till the cops go away. They caught one lady red handed but the cop car was facing the wrong way. With the traffic jam, even though he told her to get out of the car twice she took off. By the time he was able to get turned around she was long gone. You try taking keys away from a drunk twice your size. All you can do is tell the office or the police. But the problem is, the police have to see them do it. I have turned in many irresponsible parents to school offices, such as loading 3 or 4 kids (some not their own) in the back of a truck bed or picking up kids on a motorcycle with no helmet for the kid, leaving a baby in the car for 5 to 10 minutes while they run into the building. I guess there is nothing they can do about it though.
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
I find it interesting that you have no harsh words for parents driving drunk with their kids. I guess it's their right to do so in your book.
pace (anonymous) replies…
I am sorry you missed my point and went off on an imaginary tangent, responding to some gnat that flew in your ear. I have taken keys from a drunk twice my size, I guess I am just not as scared as I should be,according to your opinion. I chose not to cower behind the idea that nothing can be done except make up stories with a moral to support some pretense of action. I guess some people think one can't do anything except whine. Why would anyone with a thinking mind assume my suggestions to do something about drunk drivers meant I approve of drunk drivers. I at no point saw in the story anything about the woman or man driving drunk, must of been a gnat in your ear on that too.
I find the idea that people with children should be on house restriction with an artificial curfew a bit ridiculous. If you don't want to see breast feeding, stay home and feed your gnats. If an owner of a business chooses to tell one customer how other customers feel about her presence, that is his right. I like going to the pig late at night for a cuppa tea, maybe the crowd will decide that I am too old to be around, or that I don't drink booze and that bothers them. I would mention that to my community if such a conversation took place. How a business is managed is as important as many of the other aspects of service.
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
If you want to ignore the fact that several people said they see parents with kids in bars all time and assume none of them are taking the kids home in a car go ahead. Have you ever followed any of them outside to take their keys away if they get in a car with the kids? If not, you are doing the same thing you're preaching to me about. Seriously, I don't think people are going to complain because your old or don't drink, but good to know you will call the media if it does.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
i suspect you are making up half of what you say and exagerating the other half.
You know nothing about what you are talking about, just judging someone with your made up facts.
I hope you are not a parent because you would be a terrible one teaching your children to make points through drama and dishonesty.\
Please do not teach children to lie, you are a terrible example for children.
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
Are you by any chance Carrie and the only thing you can do to defend yourself is to say everyone else is a bad parent. You keep using the same remark, that every one else would make a bad parent. I have raised three great kids that seem to have more brains than you.
vavs0929 (anonymous) replies…
I judge your posting skills as poor. Stop saying the same thing and stop telling people they would make bad parents. I PRAY that you're not a parent--you'd be teaching your child to judge others simply by their response in an online forum.
DrRustinMcGillicuddy (anonymous) replies…
ivalueamerica doesn't live in the real world.
kernal (anonymous) replies…
After reading your last three posts, I have to assume you are:
1) A teenager going through the "my parents don't know sh*% stage of life
2) Not a parent
3) A parent who would benefit parenting classes offered locally
4) A really bad parent who doesn't give #@$)%&^
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
Nope, you can't be Carrie because you said "..I am a big fat hairy gay man who likes big fat hairy gay men" 14 of the 15 comments you have made on this blog you either tell people they are or would be a bad parent or question their parenting skills. So exactly what is your parenting experience?
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I do not know, ask the children I raised.
They are glad you are not their parent, I asked them today.
They agree that you would be a failure.
workinghard (anonymous) replies…
I suspect you are making up half of what you say and exagerating the other half. Please do not teach your children to lie, you are a terrible example for children.
LadyJ (anonymous) replies…
Stop ivalueamerica you're embarrassing yourself. Go take your gay tango lessons and do something you might be better at.
jackbinkelman (anonymous) says…
Baby in bar, no go. Sorry.
cntrygrl (anonymous) says…
I was in a park once when an absolutely beautiful girl came walking past a group of men. They were all there for some kind of party, and of course, they all started to stare at her. You could almost hear their whispered comments.
She walked over to a blanket that had a man and small baby laying on it. She proceeded to sit down, pick up the baby, and breast feed. She was completely covered.
The mens faces were amazing. The same men that had just been talking about her (and probably her breasts) were now disgusted by said breasts.
If you have a problem with breastfeeding, don't watch. It's not hard.
Oh, and Menazort, it's truly unfortunate that your mom was a "breeder". Moron.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
Is the J/W promoting La Leche? Why does the J/W give this situation front page coverage?
It's either advertisement for the PIG, an attempt by the JW to get another award from the National Chapter of La Leche, or just another filler story.
What a waste of news space.
Go to any of the stores open 24/7 , the J/W photographer should and photograph the parents hauling the kids around late at nite in strollers, draggin them along while the parents should be home as well as the kids.
It's no wonder that the students in Lawrence are behind rest of the US. They are sleep deprived.
puddleglum (anonymous) says…
I am certainly pro-breastfeeding. I enjoy it. I am very pretty and it just makes sense to have this necessary form of dining on the sidewalk wherever one should find themselves.
I enjoy looking in the mirror at different times of the day, but that is mostly because I am beautiful, and lots of other people in this world get to see me and feel better in general.
oneeye_wilbur (anonymous) says…
Since Lawrence is so pro breast feeding, maybe the Mayor would proclaim a certain day in Lawrence as Breast Feeding Day. Maybe a parade, kinda like the Christmas parade and Art Togeau. Downtown Lawrence Inc is looking for ways to promote downtown. The La Leche would surely support a parade of beast feeders,oops breast feeders.
Sidewalk dining areas specifically for breast feeding. We have dog areas, we have smoking areas, why not breastfeeding areas. And the city could even issue a permit to breast feed in public.
The J/w gets more comments on breast feeding than even Lew Perkins got !
Now that is something. Boobs do get news coverage!
mountainbiker (anonymous) says…
It's the business' decision. Either frequent the Pig or don't.. now give it a rest people
backyardwino (anonymous) says…
ooo...did I get post # 360? wow, full circle (pun intended)
Look lady,
a. private businesses have absolutely every right to reserve the right to deny service for any reason they see fit.
b. what your actually dealing with is society's questions about what's right and wrong, not the bar manager's . . . he's just the messenger in this case. At some point owning social norms becomes second nature (for some)
tubs_of_love (anonymous) says…
You know, baby's have VERY sensitive ears, so why not wear them out at an earlier stage in his/her life by taking them to a loud bar every night. That baby is just gonna grow up to be loud, obnoxious and deaf just like the mother.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
You would clearly make a terrible parent, tubs. Your comments show that you do not have what it takes to raise a child.
LadyJ (anonymous) replies…
You have made the same kind of tired remark over a dozen times now, can't you think of anything new?
laurennoel (anonymous) replies…
really?? ivalueamerica needs to get off the computer and do something with their kids.. talk about a bad parent.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
Well, Lauren, I hope you do not teach children to be as presumptive and ignorant as you show yourself to be through your comments. I am only on a couple hours and the children I raised are now grown and adults, so I am not sure it would do any good for me to stay off the computer for them.
The point of my protest is so many people are casting stones based not on facts, judging this woman as a parent, without realizing that they themselves could be the recipients of the same ignorant grandstanding. I judge you to be a bad parent for not realizing that.
tubs_of_love (anonymous) replies…
You're a horrible parent, I can tell that by reading your comments. I'll bet you were the type of parent that repeated everything over and over to you kids, until they were just plain sick of you.
Or maybe I can't tell that much about a person by reading a few lines and neither can you.
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
And you are not, right?
tubs_of_love (anonymous) replies…
It takes love to raise a child and I have tubs of it!
RedwoodCoast (anonymous) says…
'“My opinion of The Pig was that it was a bohemian sort of place that was really accepting and very inclusive,” Wallace said. '
Accepting and Inclusive? Not while I lived in Lawrence. That bar's name says it all.
As for the baby... yeah, bringing a baby in while folks are getting their drink on probably doesn't indicate ample foresight.
pbutcher (anonymous) says…
The Replay Lounge no longer allows kids after 9pm. Honestly there are lots of times when that just seems too late, especially during the school year, for ltitle kids to be hanging out while people are smoking and drinking on the patio. There are babies to teens - but it's the toddlers running around the patio that seems especially worrisome (as a mom with grown kids).
uncleandyt (anonymous) says…
I value thread endings. I hope I'm not a parent. It's apparent that I have clearly wasted 3 days reading these comments when I could have been at the bar getting my freak on.
laurennoel (anonymous) says…
I think the fact that this woman called the local paper to complain is the most immature thing ever. If you're insulted, find another place to go. Also, why are you so surprised that the owner would have a problem with this? Don't most places which serve alcohol prohibit anyone under 21?? Why would an 11 month old be any different? Honestly, I don't understand why you wouldn't want a babysitter if you're going out after 11 pm.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
Most restaurants serve alchohol and do NOT phohibit people under 21. I hope you are not a parent becuase you would teach your children to spout off without having any facts. It is wreckless and immature and shows your parenting skills to be questionable.
thuja (anonymous) says…
I've definitely seen the husband downtown at night with the baby, having some issues with mommy flaking off her responsibilities.
This is a gossip column, right?
kujeeper (anonymous) says…
So where does 'Ivalueamerica'get all their knowledge to tell everyone on here that they are a terrible parent/shouldn'be a parent/don't have the knowledge to be a parent? My guess is 'ivalueamerica' is either Carrie Wallace or a friend of hers who is trying to belittle everyone else because clearly anyone who doesn't agree with Carrie will be or is a bad parent...
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
well, you are just making things up as you go along, you are a terrible example of a parent.
However, I see nothing different from what I am doing as to what most of the people on this board are doing..judging this woman based on 500 words or less. My point is you had damn well better be sure of yourself if you are going to question someone else´s parenting skills and you damn well better be ready to be questioned yourself in the very same way.
You have shown that you are not, you are throwing stones in your glass house.
You are demonstrating terrible parenting skills and wouldprobably be an unfit parent.
jbiegs (anonymous) replies…
bwahhahahahahah bwhahahahahahahah reread your second paragraph you idiot! hahaha I really hope you are just trolling because if not......you are an idiot!! hahahaha
independant1 (anonymous) says…
January, 2 National Breast Appreciation Day
August National Breast Feeding Awareness Month
Hydra (Roger Ford) says…
Maybe she shoulda gone to the Outhouse to feed her kid. She coulda made a few bucks at the same time.
rbwaa (anonymous) says…
has she got the message yet?
jbiegs (anonymous) says…
Carrie says "I feel like I am being watched and judged," Carrie....you are!!! and you are not scoring well!
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I am watchign and judging you..you have failed all humanity.
MacHeath (anonymous) says…
Seems like we are "beating a dead thread" here.
bangaranggerg (anonymous) says…
Cheers Theme Song Lyrics rewritten for The Pig:
Sometimes you want to go
To a bar that's yours you claim,
and ignore your sense of shame,
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same (even though no one else brings their kids)
You wanna be where everybody knows
You're insane.
The_Big_B (anonymous) says…
“I feel like I am being watched and judged”
Am I allowed to say: LOL ?
Breastfeeding an infant in a bar in the middle of the night will bring that out in people.
Maybe things should be different. They're not.
100% of the mothers breastfeeding their baby in a bar in the middle of the night are going to be watched and judged. That's about it.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) says…
Big B, it is a cafe, not a bar...however, I realize re-stating the facts other than what they are makes your point, so please feel free, you have every American right to make up things and swing the truth.
Of course, it would make you a terrible parent to teach your children telling lies to make your point is the way to go, and a poor citizen.
But please, do not let that stop you from casting judgement on someone else...the word of a liar might be important to someone.
However, I judge you to be a dishonest person who just demonstrated poor parenting skills.
grammaddy (anonymous) replies…
Who died and made you the judge? You are looking like an even bigger idiot than the woman in the story with all your judgements.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
well, you are still a day late and a dollar short, but you are getting closer...
who died and made any of us judged based on 500 words or less in the LJW about a persons parenting skills.
heed your own advice, or realize later that you were a fool.
elle (anonymous) says…
There is no law or even a sign forbidding minors into the establishment. Remember, this is a cafe/bar, I don't see anyone raising a stink over entire families, including babies, hanging out at Applebee's, On the Border, Longhorn, Chili's - liquor is served there too, and so is food until 11:00 or later. These places are cleverly marketed as "neighborhood" establishments. Can't think of a more bohemian, tolerant neighborhood establishment than the Pig. I don't think this lady intended to draw attention to the situation for more than the injustice of her being singled out for things that happen all the time across town in chain restaurants serving liquor.
Holy hell - it's not like she's drinking herself into a stupor. She just wants to be treated fairly, like any other consumer, and well she should. Before you judge her for being in the establishment, consider she has every right to be there by law. Her right to publicly breastfeed is also protected by law.
Getting lost in discussions of whether you would take your children to the Pig is losing the big point - she was unfairly and inequitably singled out and mistreated for bringing in her minor child, purchasing coffee and hanging out with her husband at their favorite coffee spot. Don't know about you...but this is the end of my business to the Pig. I am a woman, this is a human affront to all women. An injustice to one is an injustice to all. Think about that next time you're having dinner at Applebee's with your ankle biters in tow and the woman next to you starts breastfeeding her kid - would you sit idly by if the manager kicked her out or told her this was somehow inappropriate. Of course not. The Pig is NO different, and no matter how you dice this situation up or try to make it her fault there is no denying what happened was discriminatory, and that is that.
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
"There is no law or even a sign forbidding minors into the establishment."
And one more time:
You can't legislate away stupidity.
dogsandcats (anonymous) says…
I'm a little late to the party, but I wanted to make a few comments. First of all, "singled out"? Of course she was singled out, she was the only woman at the Pig after 11pm with an infant. It's like that old game of "one of these things are not like the other". People noticed, people deemed it inappropriate, people said something to the manager, the manager responded to the complaint.
Next, the Pig is a private establishment. She has no rights there, it's not a public place. If she disagrees with their actions, go somewhere else. If she had quietly left and came back another time without her infant, or during daytime hours with her infant, she would most likely be more than welcome. Now that she's made a fuss over it? Possibly not.
But more to the issue here. The Pig is a bar in the evening. Sure they still sell coffee and other non-alcoholic beverages, but I would wager a guess that 90% or more of their sales in the evening is alcohol. They do not sell food like Applebees or those other places the poster above me mentioned so there really is no similarity there: having a drink with dinner with the fam at Applebees is not the same as going to a bar and consuming only drinks.
Whether or not she wants to bring her infant to a bar at 11pm is her choice, sure. Whether or not the other patrons want to hang out with an infant at a bar at 11pm is their choice. Whether the manager wants to accommodate one mother with infant or several patrons is the manager's choice.
Lots of posters here are giving their parenting advice. Some of them are admonishing them for doing so. Our society is very private; i.e. there is an "I can raise my kid however the hell I want to" attitude. That is great and all, but other people are going to have to interact with your kid at some point. Some cultures still practice an "it takes a village" sort of child-rearing and while I don't have any data to back it up, I would imagine the more people involved in raising a child, the better. Maybe open your mind and listen to other people's thoughts on the matter. Personally, I can't imagine bringing an infant to a bar at 11pm would be good for said infant in any way. Would I go up to this mother personally in a bar and tell her that? No. But she is the one who ran crying to the LJW and she is the one responsible for making it a public matter. She gave consent for this article to appear and I'm sure she knows that this website has a comment section and that people have every right to give their opinions.
So here is mine: Babies do not belong in bars.
corduroypants (anonymous) replies…
Well said, dogsandcats.
gccs14r (anonymous) says…
Babies, toddlers, and other young children don't belong in Applebee's after 8:30, either. Keep your kid up past a reasonable bedtime and he'll suffer from delayed development, poor school performance, and general poor behavior.
Pywacket (anonymous) says…
I'm sorry.... I'm pretty militant about women's rights, breastfeeding in public rights, etc., but this woman is a selfish idiot. Nobody wants to go to a bar at 10 or 11 at night and see/hear an infant there. Especially those of us who behaved like grownups when our kids were babies and did not foist them on others in inappropriate settings. We either got a babysitter or we stayed home! Can't afford a babysitter? Should have thought of that before you had a kid. But that problem is yours--it's not fair to make it everybody else's.
This woman is the same type who takes the infant to a 9:30 pm movie then acts all indignant if someone has the gall to complain about having to listen to it whimpering. Very selfish. It's all about her.
Is hanging out in a bar really so important, Ms Wallace, that you can't take a break from it during the short amount of time this child is a baby? If so, it's really a shame you didn't get that out of your system before having him. It's not fair to him or to the grownups at the bar that you don't give a crap about any of them if they stand in your way of continuing to behave like a carefree college student. Nobody wants to see your kid there. Or at the theatre at night during a PG-13 or R-rated movie. Think of someone besides yourself.
The kid is old enough to start picking up on what he hears. Do you really want his vocabulary to consist of the trash talk that goes on in a bar? Or do you plan to whine to the media and everyone who will listen and insist that the midnight discourse be G-rated when little junior is old enough to start repeating what he hears and you're still dragging him around to bars at night? Get a clue.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
it is a cafe, making most of your comments absurd.
LadyJ (anonymous) says…
Wonder what is going to happen when this kid hits public school? You don't get to make the rules there. Maybe she should start considering her options now.
greenlid79 (anonymous) says…
Here, here! Holy Lord! Such judment passed. This is NOT the worst that could be done. I understand that people have strong opinions, but temper yourselves. Maybe she leaves if she sees things getting rowdy. Everyone sees baby, bar, and late night and goes ape-s**t. Truth is, we don't know the details and most of us don't know her or her family. Chaos isn't raining down on our society because of this one case. This woman and the establishment owner will work it out between themselves. Both have interests they want to protect. Really all of this... all of this steamy crap being thrown around doesn't mean squat to the outcome because the parties involved have already had a discussion on the issue and may have more in the future.
bangaranggerg (anonymous) says…
ivalueamerica is going for a record for trolling out parenting skills. At this point, it's either tounge in cheek or evidence of a possibly serious neurotic disorder.
kernal (anonymous) replies…
I'm guessing an extremely neurotic disorder bordering on creepy.
ivalueamerica (anonymous) replies…
I am guessing it has more to do with...as I have stated, that everyone here feels they have the right to cast stones based on 500 words or less from the LJ World without knowing this person, her parenting skills or how is her baby.
However, since the facts did not fit your opinion, you ignored them and made up something else based on nothing.
That would mean your example to children is to make things up when the facts do not fit what you want to say...or in other words, you teach children to lie.
I think your parenting skills therefore are very questionable.
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
"it's either tounge in cheek or evidence of a possibly serious neurotic disorder"
The two are not mutually exclusive.
BostonJayhawk88 (anonymous) says…
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Have to agree with the bartender on this one. No one under 21 at the bar after dark.
June 17, 2010 at 1:32 p.m.
geekyhost (anonymous) replies…
>>>>> I don't disagree, but they do need a sign.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really?? A sign? Really?
A sign like this one????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUEImW...
gl0ck0wn3r (anonymous) says…
I'm totally judging her.
jbiegs (anonymous) says…
I'm not a parent but maybe someday I will be and when that day comes I will surely give ivalueamerica a call to learn all of their infinite wisdom of parenting. It is obvious that ivalueamerica is the only rational person here and knows so much more about parenting than anyone else posting. Thank you for all of your value contributions ivalueamerica.
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
BostonJayhawk88 (anonymous) says…
ivalueamerica = Ms. Wallace?
notajayhawk (anonymous) replies…
I'm guessing Mr. Wallace.
kusp8 (anonymous) says…
I suggest everybody flag ivalueamerica and then maybe JKealing will remove him/her's comments. If you have an informed opinion, regardless of how well formed it is, you should express it here. However if you feel the urge to repeat yourself again and again and again and again...then you shouldn't be allowed to comment on here....it's just annoying
wmathews (Whitney Mathews) says…
Hi guys -- We think both sides have had plenty of time and space to give their opinions, and the volume of comments is slowing down the load time for the story. I think it's best if we end comments for this particular article.
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