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Archive for Thursday, June 3, 2010

Lawrence man says he’s victim of a hate crime after assault on Mass. Street last Friday

Rudolph Neugebauer III was injured in what he calls a hate crime against him because he is gay. He said he was attacked 
in the 600 block of Massachusetts Street early Friday morning after a group of strangers had offered him a ride.

Rudolph Neugebauer III was injured in what he calls a hate crime against him because he is gay. He said he was attacked in the 600 block of Massachusetts Street early Friday morning after a group of strangers had offered him a ride.

June 3, 2010

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Longtime Lawrence resident Rudolph Neugebauer III sits down at a tattered grand piano he’s attempting to restore.

As his fingers dance across the keys, the sound that comes from the piano is beautiful, although slightly out of tune.

The 27-year-old Washburn senior has had to take a break from finishing his restoration project, and when he looks up from the keyboard, it’s easy to see why. His eye is purple and swollen shut. His eye socket is shattered, and he has an indentation in his face where his cheek bone used to be.

Lawrence resident says he was victim of a hate crime

A Lawrence man who got beat up after getting a ride home from people he didn't know says he was a victim of a hate crime because he is gay. Enlarge video

“I’m just in shock. I don’t know what to say,” Neugebauer said. “This is Lawrence, and I thought, I’m good. I just made the wrong choice.”

Neugebauer claims to be the victim of a brutal attack that occurred a little after 2 a.m. Friday in the 600 block of Massachusetts Street. And what makes the crime even worse: Neugebauer says he was attacked because he’s gay.

“I’m a normal person,” he said. “Being gay is a part of me, I’m not a part of it. I’m not the only one this happens to. Hate crimes happen all the time, and people are too ashamed to say anything. It can’t be like that anymore.”

Neugebauer said the incident happened after he accepted a ride home from a group of people he didn’t know. He said that after growing up in Lawrence he didn’t think twice about jumping in the car with the strangers, but when one of the men in the car asked him whether he was gay, Neugebauer said things went downhill quickly.

“The guy next to me muttered something about being gay,” he said. “Then the driver turned around and said, ‘What? Are you gay? This isn’t that type of party. You can get the (expletive) out.’”

Neugebauer said he turned to get out of the car and was sucker-punched from behind. He ended up in the emergency room at Lawrence Memorial Hospital, and Lawrence police are now investigating the attack as a possible hate crime.

“This needs to stop,” Neugebauer said. “This is ridiculous and appalling. I’m a strong individual and I will survive, but if it was somebody else, they may not have.”

Mase Hakes, the youth coordinator with the Kansas City group Show Me Pride, said it’s hard to believe such intolerance still exists.

“It’s 2010. This really should be gone and done with by now,” Hakes said. “We should be able to walk down the street without having to worry about being attacked.”

The incident caught the attention of the Kansas City gay pride group, which will attempt to raise funds for Neugebauer during the Pride Week activities that kicked off Monday.

“Once we heard about this, I contacted the board, and everyone unanimously agreed: We should try to shed light on this,” Hakes said.

Neugebauer said he’s appreciative of the support he’s gotten across the country since posting his story on Facebook. He’s hoping the suspects, whom he describes as four men in a 1990s silver or gold Honda Accord, will be caught.

“They will be found, and justice will be served,” Neugebauer said. “I will be there to make sure my voice is heard.”

Comments

Steve Jacob 4 years, 5 months ago

"Neugebauer said the incident happened after he accepted a ride home from a group of people he didn’t know."

No comment, just shaking my head.

weegee 4 years, 5 months ago

Maybe he didn't make an award-winning decision, but that should not be the first thought that pops into your head. Keep in mind who the VICTIM is in this story.

smerdyakov 4 years, 5 months ago

Really... really? That's the first thing that occurs to you? I have no idea what the circumstances were, but my first thought would be that he may a smart decision by getting a ride home. From a bar. At 2 a.m. I'd much rather have everybody making that "stupid" decision than getting in their own car drunk.

grammaddy 4 years, 5 months ago

His parents should have taught him that a LOT earlier!

gizmobear 4 years, 5 months ago

Yes, let's blame the victim. How awful for him to accept what he thought was an act of kindness from one adult to another. He was totally asking for it. What a silly goose.

Jobe 4 years, 5 months ago

Would you still be shaking your head, if the story was about him driving home drunk, and then hitting someone with a car? It seems to me, that everyone here points out the obvious, the bottom line is, he was viciously attacked for an absolutely unjustified reason, plain and simple. I wish you all well, I think these comments are well intended for the most part.

Steve Jacob 4 years, 5 months ago

Downtown isn't safe for anyone at 2 AM. Not so sure I'd call it a hate crime, but assault for sure and I hope they get the guy.

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

Sheer bigoted hatred doesn't need any excuse. People are still free to think what they want. OTOH, the person that threw the punch needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, whether the law falls under hate crimes legislation or under generic assault, depending on the specifics of the incident.

begin60 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm sorry this happened. I have experienced a lot of bigotry and hatred in Lawrence--it's even more primitive here than in MO.

begin60 4 years, 5 months ago

Liberty---Bigotry is not the most reliable sign of free thinking. Typically it's programmed into people--their thoughts aren't their own-- they don't think. Many Kansans are extremely set in their ways and have not bothered to examine their mindless assumptions or to stop and reflect before regarding and treating others according to offensive stereotypes.

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

Whether by self-discovery or programming, if a person harbors "sheer bigoted hatred" that is still legal. Think about it. On the day you can be told you can no longer hate or be bigoted, you can also be told you can't love and choose a mate. They are flip sides of the same coin.

You split the issue into two parts, that is "mindless assumptions" and "treating others". The mindless assumptions is just thought and we must protect it regardless of how beautiful or ugly it is. The "treating others" part are actions and not necessarily protected.

There is a bit of irony in this case. Had the young man been a little more DISCRIMINARY against who he got into the car with, his eye would look normal today. Discrimination allows us to survive. It isn't just a reason to call people backwodds hickes.

jaybark 4 years, 5 months ago

Liberty, to excuse hatespeech, mongering, and open bigotry under the banner of "free-thinking" is really upending the intent of the ideal. Where your logic comes to a dead end is when "free think" becomes "group think" and you end up goose-stepping to Wagner. The entire concept of free thinking is intended to bend toward the better angels of our nature, not to allow ignorant bigots to commit violent acts of cowardice against anyone they see fit and be excused from the heavier punishment of hate crime legislation because they are "free thinkers". Mr. Neugebauer, please accept an open apology from the community on behalf of "free thinkers" everywhere. Hang in there.

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

Liberty, to excuse hatespeech, mongering, and open bigotry under the banner of "free-thinking" is really upending the intent of the ideal.

Your joking right? It is the epitome of the ideal. If the ideal didn't exist, the first speech to muzzled would be whatever the dictaor(s) decided was hateful and offensive.

Maybe next time you say "free thinking" you should say "free thinking that I approve of" instead.

equalaccessprivacy 4 years, 5 months ago

Well, I think you're spot-on, Liberty, that the "backwoods hicks" designation often comes in angry response to discriminatory treatment--people in these parts are very aggressive about getting up in others' business for discriminatory reasons. Wouldn't just ignoring someone be preferable to butting ignorance up in a stranger's face? This type of attention is certainly not a treat or any sign of genuine human care-- on the contrary.

People in other parts of the country tend to be a bit more tentative and tactful in the way they approach strangers. Here people feel free just to clumsily,mortifyingly butt into the most intimate details of your life.

Before I moved here the word "hick" was hardly in my vocabulary. Would that it were still an unknown concept and experience.

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm a backwoods hick of hillbilly blood, raised as a florida redneck, but also well traveled. I'm proud of my heritage which makes me immune to anything people say about it.

That's the real problem people have with offensive speech. The words are irrelevant, it's the shame inside the person that causes their own outrage.

OTOH, I don't meddle in other people's business and by no means condone violence of any type other than self-defense.

Angela Heili 4 years, 5 months ago

He is a victim of his own bad decision. Common sense and survival instinct tells most people, "Don't get in a car with strangers." We teach this to our children from the time they are very young to the day we see them become adults and leave the nest. We also teach them that there are consequences to every action, both good and bad. Yes he is a victim of assault. Yes it wouldn't have happened if he hadn't foolishly accepted a ride from a car full of strangers. I hope for his sake he has learned his lesson, all be it a little late, and doesn't ask for a ride from strangers again. The outcome next time could be much worse. This story is just another "see, this is what happens" example that parents will show their children to prove the point.....you don't take rides from strangers.

I wish Mr. Neugebauer a speedy recovery.

mom_of_three 4 years, 5 months ago

The assault could have happened whether he accepted the ride or not. We do not know whether the people in the car chose him (although it seems innocent enough) - they did stop to ask him.
And parrysmom, accepting a ride from strangers IN NO WAY makes their actions excusable. HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE _ PERIOD.

Angela Heili 4 years, 5 months ago

If he follows your line of thinking and decides he's not responsible, then he will continue to accept rides from strangers and possibly get killed. Everyone is responsible for their actions. He is responsible for getting in the car and not using common sense thinking. The attackers are responsible for what they did as well and should be held accountable for it.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

They didnt stop and ask me for a ride-I'd ridden with them a block prior (I MADE NO VERBALS TO THEM DURING THAT TIME EITHER) and as i started to walk home-they insisted i ride with them to a party-i said no several times-but it was peer pressure and I dont have a lot of friends so I was a bit insecure-decided to go to a party-then one mentioned something about gay-the driver turned around and asked me-after confirmation-i was told to get the (explicit) out-and the guy that hit me said, 'we dont put up with that (explicit)' and punched me in the temple from behind. i took it like a man too, he didnt knock me down and i walked away-ALIVE. your opinion is noted-but might i suggest that you choose your arguments carefully because it's not a matter of whether or not i made the wrong decision-which i admit to doing and therefore dont need you to reaffirm the obvious-i am a victim and was attacked-without provocation and it was for happening to admit that i prefer the company of other men-i could have lied-i think maybe i should have lied-perhaps i made the wrong decision there-but the point is that this is said and done-the culprits have not been found and this HATRED STOPS NOW

Angela Heili 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm very glad you walked away alive. I don't remember stating any opinions. It's a fact that everyone is responsible for their actions. I certainly hope the people who assaulted you are held accountable for their being responsible for assaulting you.

As for being careful what arguments I choose, there is no argument. Everyone is responsible for their actions and the decisions they make. You agreed to that. "...i made the wrong decision-which i admit to doing..."

I'm still teaching that to my, almost 18 year old son. He tries to shirk any responsibility for his actions and decisions. Just because he and many others try to ignore the responsibility, doesn't mean it goes away.

I just pray that in the future you are strong enough to overcome any peer pressures that may face you. When you say no, mean it! Let this experience make you stronger. And whatever you do.....don't get in a car with strangers!! Heaven knows how many people are killed every year by getting in cars with strangers, whether willingly or forcibly.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

What helped me with accepting responsibility and or not shrinking things down-is getting over my ego. I did that by just being me-it was pretty hard at first-putting myself out there. But I joined a fraternity at Washburn and loved it. I miss my brothers too. I think the reason I would be so trusting is because I was with the 'Greeks' and we all tend to have a very conservative and safe campus-i knew better than to wander off campus-I'm not idiot-but I suppose being back in Lawrence I let my inhibitions go and thought I was safe in this little utopia-I dont want to be one of those jaded individuals but by all means oh how oblivious I'd become.
Thank you Parry's mom-tell your son to let his ego go, and accept responsibility for his actions plain and simple. less words the better.
You'll see a few individuals on here expressing their generous opinion of me-'a few years or a couple years ago' -i agree that in the past I was less than gentlemanly, but what i've noticed-some men are like a fine wine-we're better with age-I know I am. give him some time-I was MORE THAN 4 HANDS FULL (mother and father) oh, dont ask-endless stories-but this time was different-that's why I called the police and that's why I made a scene and that's why it was a hate crime.

sickofdummies 4 years, 5 months ago

“It’s 2010. This really should be gone and done with by now,”

He's right about there needing to be tolerance by now. But...who, since 1970 takes rides from strangers, and expects to come out of it unharmed. Women haven't been able to do that EVER! Why should men (gay or straight) be able to do it just because its 2010? Come on, and use a little common sense!

geekyhost 4 years, 5 months ago

Getting in someone's car is not a crime. Beating them up is.

whats_going_on 4 years, 5 months ago

when I lived in the mountains, my dumba** would hitchhike because after a certain time of day, there were no buses from my work to where I lived. In hindsight, I freak out about the thought of what could have happened to me. Yikes. :(

puddleglum 4 years, 5 months ago

fight hate with a good ol' 1911 colt .45.

i am very pretty, and I am the center of constant attention, i always carry, just in case some ugly person gets jealous and freaks out.

puddleglum 4 years, 5 months ago

biggunz...that's why you shoot first,question later none2: no one is prettier, so i don't worry.

Randall Barnes 4 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

you clearly get my vote for most ignorant post of the day.

Choice or not does not matter. If someone were attacked because he were a Christian, it would be the same thing, a hate crime, a crime against humanity. Yet one chooses to be a Christian.

You can find any reason you want to justify hate and violence and intolerance...but those are just excuses...your real motive is quite clear...

You are a bigot, plain and simple...own up to it.

gr 4 years, 5 months ago

Can you name a crime that ISN'T motivated by hate?

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

Yes, many crimes are not motivated by hate but by greed.

However, hate crimes have a special class because some of us remember what Hitler did to the Jewish people, gays, Romani, Blacks and so many others and realize something like that goes far above and beyond a crime against a person and jumps to the status of a crime against humanity.

Some of us do not want that to repeat.

gr 4 years, 5 months ago

But isn't greed hate of those who have more? Isn't greed the most hateful of all?

more_cowbell 4 years, 5 months ago

No, greed is hate of oneself because one doesn't have as much as others have. That said, most crimes indicate a disregard for one's fellow human beings.

Perhaps the classic "stealing a loaf of bread because you're hungry" (a la Jean Valjean) would qualify as a crime without hate; perhaps jaywalking, or speeding, or public intoxication also qualify.

But assaulting a person after they admit to being gay, prefaced with the comment "we don't put up with that [expletive]"? That's a hate crime.

Not all crimes are hate crimes, gr. Unless you have a very warped definition of "hate"...

bjt 4 years, 5 months ago

Hatred is out there no matter what your choices, it seems people can be prejudice about anything even how you look. I know an older lady in our community that 'looks different' because she has hormonal issues and people either laugh or turn away from her if they see her, most won't even speak to her and cross the street to avoid her and worst part is no one takes the time to get to know her...people can be cruel just because you are different, just so sad.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

if that is how you feel, then it is clear, it should have happened to you and not him.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

my father has a 79 harley-full dresser, red, foot clutch, suicide shifter, stage 3 grind cam, dual spark plugs per cylinder, msd race bike ignition-i'm only 5'8'' I wouldnt dare try to ride it-way too heavy!

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

I would suspect you would think a woman deserved to be raped because she flirted or wear sexy clothes as well.

Your point of view is very ignorant.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

they didnt blow over the story at all.

fanaddict 4 years, 5 months ago

He is a friend of a friend of mine (gotta love facebook). A few days ago I saw the pictures of this guys eye...it was horrifying. No matter the poor decision he made he didn't deserve that.

Raider 4 years, 5 months ago

First off Rudolph.... It sucks that you were sucker-punched and had to go to the ER. But really.... you jumped in the car with a bunch of strangers. At what point do you take responsibility for your own actions?

I don't doubt they made anti-gay remarks. I also don't doubt they hit you because of it. It's pretty obvious they are a bunch of idiots and deserve to have the *&$^# kicked out of them. But .....a hate crime? Really? Did you stop to think your actions could have contributed to the incident just a little bit? After all, you admitted that you hopped in the car with these guys and you didn't know a single one of them.

Come on... what sane gay male jumps in a car with a bunch of strangers? Especially a bunch of straight guys at 2:00am when all the bars have just closed? And perhaps you weren't completely sober yourself? At some point we as gay men have to draw the line between legitimate hate crimes and things we bring upon ourselves.

And before the rest of the bashers jump on me, I'm NOT saying there aren't legitimate hate crimes toward gay men. I'm saying that specifically in this case there maybe could be more to the story. In the least, had common sense prevailed then Rudolph may have not been in this situation to begin with.

Telling your story as if you wee viciously attacked for no reason, minding your own business, walking down the street, etc.... when you are the one who admittedly put yourself in that situation is wrong. And to top it off you ask a group in KC to raise money for your medical expenses? Sounds like more of an attention grab.

Just sayin.....

AnnaUndercover 4 years, 5 months ago

"...you jumped in a the car with a bunch of strangers. At what point do you take responsibility for your own actions?"

At what point are we going to start expecting every 'bunch of strangers' to follow the same laws 'we' do?

Raider 4 years, 5 months ago

Thank you for agreeing with my point. We can't expect everyone to follow the same moral codes. It sucks, but unfortunately you can't trust every stranger on the street. If a person deliberately puts themselves in that situation, then they should have to accept a small amount of responsibility when something goes wrong and they are harmed.

AnnaUndercover 4 years, 5 months ago

I understand that a lot of individuals share your opinion, but I have to press this:

Guilty parties should always take responsibility for what they do, whether they know their victim or not.

I just don't think being acquainted with your attackers should ever have a relationship with any party's responsibility.

They did it, so they are 100% accountable. Not 99.9%, but 100%. The victim did nothing.

No one should hurt another person, whether they know them or not.

geekyhost 4 years, 5 months ago

The point is she DOES have the right to do so. It doesn't matter if conventional wisdom says she's wise to do so or not.

Blaming the victim just makes victims hesitant to come forward for fear of exactly this sort of judgment and empowers criminals by making it easier to get away with their crimes.

geekyhost 4 years, 5 months ago

Is getting in a car illegal? No. Is battery illegal? Yes.

Fault lies with the person(s) committing the crime, not the victim.

Grundoon Luna 4 years, 5 months ago

Whether he made a bad decision and put himself in harms way or not he was battered because he was gay, ergo a hate crime.

That being said, Rudy, you really do need to be careful. Remember Matthew Shepard? It wasn't that long ago and, obviously, ignorant neanderthals still exist. As a college student you can take a Safe Ride home.

jafs 4 years, 5 months ago

The Lawrence I know is not that safe after midnight when many people have been drinking.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

i'm reposting this for you i'm 'just sayin...' too They didnt stop and ask me for a ride-I'd ridden with them a block prior (I MADE NO VERBALS TO THEM DURING THAT TIME EITHER) and as i started to walk home-they insisted i ride with them to a party-i said no several times-but it was peer pressure and I dont have a lot of friends so I was a bit insecure-decided to go to a party-then one mentioned something about gay-the driver turned around and asked me-after confirmation-i was told to get the (explicit) out-and the guy that hit me said, 'we dont put up with that (explicit)' and punched me in the temple from behind. i took it like a man too, he didnt knock me down and i walked away-ALIVE. your opinion is noted-but might i suggest that you choose your arguments carefully because it's not a matter of whether or not i made the wrong decision-which i admit to doing and therefore dont need you to reaffirm the obvious-i am a victim and was attacked-without provocation and it was for happening to admit that i prefer the company of other men-i could have lied-i think maybe i should have lied-perhaps i made the wrong decision there-but the point is that this is said and done-the culprits have not been found and this HATRED STOPS NOW

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I didnt ask them to do anything. You should reread the article. I'm quite thankful for anything and everything. Please might I add that despite very little recognition towards me-that the goal here is to stop hate crimes and I have the nerve to stand up for myself and make a scene about it unlike what I've heard from other victims in the past.

XEPCT 4 years, 5 months ago

That should never happen in Lawrence. I'm disappointed.

amesn 4 years, 5 months ago

This situation saddens me greatly. I hope the victim does not have any permanent effects such as vision loss due to this completely appalling event. I'm sure he realizes now how significant the lack of judgement on his part was to accept a ride from strangers but in a small way I can relate to being too trusting and naïve about our community. I don't always lock my house when I leave or have left my keys in the ignition to my vehicle while running into a convenience store for a pop. So far this hasn't come to bite me in the *ss

bradh 4 years, 5 months ago

You're all assuming the guy is telling the truth. Let the cops find the perps and get to the bottom of things. I hate the way we try things in the media these days with only one side of the story, only to find out months later that the one side was just that, one side and often made up.

jaywalker 4 years, 5 months ago

Messed up, with a capital F. Where's our humanity?

jaywalker 4 years, 5 months ago

Messed up, with a capital F. Where's our humanity?

stuckinthemiddle 4 years, 5 months ago

now and then when I read the comments here on the LJW site I think there sure seems to be more and more hateful rednecks in Lawrence... and then I let the notion slide and figure that it's just a very small number of frustrated and or otherwise messed up people who just have some need to mouth off...

but reading this reveals a reality... that there are at least some, and definitely too many hateful, horridly ignorant and dangerous people running loose in this town...

I hope for the best for Mr. Neugebauer... and I hope that the neanderthals that attacked him are captured and caged...

stuckinthemiddle 4 years, 5 months ago

Good points about the whole blaming the victim thing that is so popular here... It is at times stunning... such as with this situation...

but I'm talking about a different thing... and a smaller group of people who comment... who in most cases would jump to the defense of the victim... as long as they're white or not gay or not a "hippie"...

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I would just like it to be known that the guys in the car were in a honda, black-the guy that hit me had dread locks with gold things in his hair and he didnt speak clean english-i'm not a red neck and i'm not racist but i am slightly surprised that i was discriminated against by another minority. Perhaps it was their own personality flaw that didnt allow them the ability to accept or recall the need for tolerance of differences.

whats_going_on 4 years, 5 months ago

people who feel like they must complain about something now have a fast and easy way to do it...on the internet. I think it seems like a lot because a lot of people don't feel the need to come on here and talk about it? I've felt that way too, but honestly I think the internet just breeds the behavior in some cases.

whats_going_on 4 years, 5 months ago

people who feel like they must complain about something now have a fast and easy way to do it...on the internet. I think it seems like a lot because a lot of people don't feel the need to come on here and talk about it? I've felt that way too, but honestly I think the internet just breeds the behavior in some cases.

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

alcohol 2am ride w/strangers sucker punched

Evidently things ain't changed much since the 50's. It's a brute world out there sometimes. Right here in river city.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I dont believe that alcohol had anything to do with it, Im 27 i've had more than my share of drunken charades-I was sober.

kansastruthteller 4 years, 5 months ago

Hate crime? Is there a love crime? Does it really make a difference that they assaulted him because he was gay? If he was straight would the act be any less heinous?

Hate crimes, special rights, etc. are counterproductive because they serve to segregate certain populations when we should be working to integrate people without labels. A person certain be percieved as black, white, gay, straight, etc. but instead by their worth with which they are born and the talents, personality and character they acquire in life.

Better for all if Mr. Neugebauer was known as a student and gifted muscian rather than a gay man. Think about it, we label things in life, whether it is office folders or people because we want to separate them.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

Many crimes are motivated by greed, not hate.

However, Hitler showed us that there is such a thing as hate crimes and the change something from a horrible crime against a person to a horrible crime against humanity.

There is no such thing as special rights ... you are mislabeling equal rights.

The only special right is the right of bigots to discriminate against others...you want special rights for homophobics. I say they should be treated like any other bigot.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

You made me smile, thank you. I was attempting la valse by yann tiersen-it wasnt so hot-but thank you for the compliment.

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

Allow me the poetic license to do a snap.

Flag! 15 yard penalty, offense, alochol/testosterone laced flagrant suckerpunch and loss of down. Defense warned for excessive celebration.

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

Humanity is not yet ready for either real truth or real harmony. (Will Rogers)

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

Humanity is not yet ready for either real truth or real harmony. (Will Rogers)

Randall Barnes 4 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

add a splash of class, I am not gay, I am a man-I happen to prefer the company of other men... smirk

Nikki Kessler Pickens 4 years, 5 months ago

Bad decision by Rudy or not, what happened to him is NOT ok. I have encountered him around several times - not only in Lawrence - and he is probably the most friendly person I have EVER chanced upon. I am so sorry for what has happened to him, and I really hope that whomever did this to him will be caught and punished.

jafs 4 years, 5 months ago

It's certainly not a war zone, but I wouldn't walk around alone at 2am downtown and jump into a car with a bunch of strangers.

Seems like a risky thing to do.

equalaccessprivacy 4 years, 5 months ago

Rudolph deserves to have his humanity and dignity respected. Love his insightful statement that being gay is just part of his normal self-- that he's not part of some prejudiced concept of gayness.

Lawrence itself feels like a war zone to me. I was raised up like a civilized person to be reasonably wary of strangers. Here that fundamental respect for decent social boundaries doesn't seem to exist. Total crazies expect to be welcomed into your life like a long-lost brother. I don't feel safe on the streets at any hour and have actually been seen as rude and even made the object of brutal workplace scapegoating based on refusing to give these bigoted, aggressive strangers the time of day.

equalaccessprivacy 4 years, 5 months ago

Rudolph deserves to have his humanity and dignity respected. Love his insightful statement that being gay is just part of his normal self-- that he's not part of some prejudiced concept of gayness.

Lawrence itself feels like a war zone to me. I was raised up like a civilized person to be reasonably wary of strangers. Here that fundamental respect for decent social boundaries doesn't seem to exist. Total crazies expect to be welcomed into your life like a long-lost brother. I don't feel safe on the streets at any hour and have actually been seen as rude and even made the object of brutal workplace scapegoating based on refusing to give these bigoted, aggressive strangers the time of day.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I dont know if alcohol had anything to do with their decisions-I know that I just must be stupid-because... here They didnt stop and ask me for a ride-I'd ridden with them a block prior (I MADE NO VERBALS TO THEM DURING THAT TIME EITHER) and as i started to walk home-they insisted i ride with them to a party-i said no several times-but it was peer pressure and I dont have a lot of friends so I was a bit insecure-decided to go to a party-then one mentioned something about gay-the driver turned around and asked me-after confirmation-i was told to get the (explicit) out-and the guy that hit me said, 'we dont put up with that (explicit)' and punched me in the temple from behind. i took it like a man too, he didnt knock me down and i walked away-ALIVE. your opinion is noted-but might i suggest that you choose your arguments carefully because it's not a matter of whether or not i made the wrong decision-which i admit to doing and therefore dont need you to reaffirm the obvious-i am a victim and was attacked-without provocation and it was for happening to admit that i prefer the company of other men-i could have lied-i think maybe i should have lied-perhaps i made the wrong decision there-but the point is that this is said and done-the culprits have not been found and this HATRED STOPS NOW

jonas_opines 4 years, 5 months ago

"What was his reason/motivation for getting in a car at two am with strangers?"

Yes, quite a mystery. But maybe it has to do with cars generally moving faster than people.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Sounds like he was headed to an after party. Sad, for sure. We all need to be careful and make wise choices. Horrible that he was assaulted, that shouldn't happen anywhere.

kansastruthteller 4 years, 5 months ago

rando how can you believe that people are not born gay? Just look at some young children who do not know what gay is and you can tell they are gay.

I could never choose to be gay because I am just not wired that way - it is like trying to push two magnets same side together. Just ain't happening. I'm wired for attraction to the opposite sex - it is not a choice for me, it is how I was born and I can't change that just as gay people can't change who they are.

I can imagine disliking someone because they are annoying, have different political views, dishonsest, etc., but I can't imagine disliking or hating someone because they are gay. I know too many decent and good people who happen to be gay. Being gay should not define a person. And gay people hurt themselves when they let their sexuality define who they are.

KLATTU 4 years, 5 months ago

Thank goodness we live in a society of laws instead of mob rule. No one, even if they make foolish decisions, deserves to be a victim of violent crime.

tanaumaga 4 years, 5 months ago

four guys and you had to sucker punch one little dude? pretty weak. pathetic actually. i can't wait until you mess with the wrong person and get on the other side of a hiding. karma is a b*tch, just like you four losers.

Steve Miller 4 years, 5 months ago

People, it's like this, the apple does not fall far from the tree !! It's in the rearing !!

iloveyoutoo 4 years, 5 months ago

For all of you posters claiming he did this to himself by getting in the car with strangers...

Based on what I read in the article, I am led to believe that had they never asked him if he was gay, it's possible that he would've been taken home safely. I think that's the whole issue here. These strangers very well may have had good intentions to start but once they found out he was gay THEY made the bad decision.

I just don't see how anyone can say it was his fault because he got in the car with strangers. That doesn't seem to be the issue. The reason they beat him up wasn't because he got into the ride they were offering. It was because they found out he was gay and probably wouldn't have offered him a ride if they'd known.

I just can't stand that things like this happen. I understand we don't all share the same beliefs but why not just leave it at that? Why do we have to let others know that we don't agree with something by resorting to violence or hateful words?

iloveyoutoo 4 years, 5 months ago

There are a lot of posters above that did indeed say it was his fault and he brought it on himself by getting in the car with strangers. Again, you proved my point that the reason he was beat up was because he was gay. That's the only point I'm trying to make. For all we know, he would've been taken home safely or dropped close to his home if they had not known he was gay.

Christine Anderson 4 years, 5 months ago

Well, like some other posters have said, it was not a good decision, but Rudolph IS still a victim of absolute insanity on the part of those who assaulted him. Recover quickly and God Bless.

Kirk Larson 4 years, 5 months ago

I have lived in several Kansas towns. Believe me, it is better here than anywhere else I have lived as far as attitudes about race and sexuality. When these bigots are caught my bet is they were from somewhere else.

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

reminds me of high school, some of the toughs were always looking for a reason to beat the crap outta somebody. their targets were generally the weakest

Sallinger didn't define it he merely illustrated it in Lord of the Flies

gr 4 years, 5 months ago

"but when one of the men in the car asked him whether he was gay, "

Just another example of what happens when you do away with the Don't ask, Don't tell policy.

independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

thanks, made me think reveiw a pleasant experience just the same

Munsoned 4 years, 5 months ago

LJW-- can we do some follow up and at least find out if the car is a 2 door, 4 door or what? He would have to know that at least. And descriptions of the bad guys? Thanks.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

They didnt stop and ask me for a ride-I'd ridden with them a block prior (I MADE NO VERBALS TO THEM DURING THAT TIME EITHER) and as i started to walk home-they insisted i ride with them to a party-i said no several times-but it was peer pressure and I dont have a lot of friends so I was a bit insecure-decided to go to a party-then one mentioned something about gay-the driver turned around and asked me-after confirmation-i was told to get the (explicit) out-and the guy that hit me said, 'we dont put up with that (explicit)' and punched me in the temple from behind. i took it like a man too, he didnt knock me down and i walked away-ALIVE. your opinion is noted-but might i suggest that you choose your arguments carefully because it's not a matter of whether or not i made the wrong decision-which i admit to doing and therefore dont need you to reaffirm the obvious-i am a victim and was attacked-without provocation and it was for happening to admit that i prefer the company of other men-i could have lied-i think maybe i should have lied-perhaps i made the wrong decision there-but the point is that this is said and done-the culprits have not been found and this HATRED STOPS NOW

estespark 4 years, 5 months ago

"hey guys I don't know...thanks for giving me a ride home at 2am."

"no problem. so, are you a freaking liberal or what?"

"nope."

estespark 4 years, 5 months ago

"hi, i am a member of the SS. are you jewish?"

"nope."

Randall Barnes 4 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

Randall Barnes 4 years, 5 months ago

wtf i have not done any thing wrong nor said anything wrong and you keep deleting my blog. please tell me what was wrong so i may have a chance to correct that issue.

Randall Barnes 4 years, 5 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

c_doc77 4 years, 5 months ago

I think its terrible that this guy got attacked. But let's look at "hate crime" for what it really is - Thought Crime! If you victimize someone, you should be punished. But for the government to dictate which motivations from crime are worse is far beyond reason. Government's job is to punish crime, not to make determinations as to which crime is worse based on the reason for the crime being committed. An assault is an assault is an assault.

When a judge sentences someone for assault, he can make a judgment about punishment based on the nature of the assault, but to legislate morality to distinguish between motivations for the exact same crime is beyond the scope of governmental authority. The legislature is not the judge and jury.

I'm really growing weary of this "hate crime" term being used the American political lexicon. If the term is used to classify certain types of crime sociologically, whether they are racially motivated or whatever, that's one thing. But when it is being used as a means to sway public opinion as to build support for "hate crime" legislation, this is a dangerous precedent and is trending toward limiting free speech. I'm not saying the Journal-World is guilty of this per se, but I think this is something we should be aware of.

geekyhost 4 years, 5 months ago

When you attack someone for being a jerk, you've attacked a person. When you attack someone for being a member of a minority group, you've attacked that entire group by proxy. The higher penalty is appropriate.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

Rando, it is simple.

If you can not say it about being Jewish, being black, being Christian, being a person with a disability, being a woman....you can not say it about someone being gay.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

Hitler has shown us that a hate crime is a crime against humanity, not a crime of thought.

c_doc77 4 years, 5 months ago

Crime against humanity as opposed to what? Crime against animals? Are you seriously going to bring Hitler, a war criminal, into a discussion about American political discourse?

Well, if you insist. I'll say it another way. A war crime is a war crime is a war crime. All war probably involves some degree of hate. History may judge whether Hitler was worse than Mussolini or Nero or whomever. But pertaining to crime and punishment, the central issue is what you do rather than what motivates you to do what you do.

Criminal A robs an old lady because she looks like an easy target and he needs a drink. Criminal B robs an old lady because he is high on crack. Both robbed a little old lady. Is criminal B worse because he is crackhead? Who says?

Please don't conflate the issue by invoking Hitler. Aren't you the one who accused the Haskell blog of logical fallacies?

Hate crime equals thought crime because it judges the heinousness of a crime on the basis of a judgment about the motivation behind it. If a crime is motivated by hatred, and not simply greed or jealousy or whatever, it is considered worse. Why? Evidently because hatred trumps greed and jealousy. It is crowned the supreme evil.

Randall Uhrich 4 years, 5 months ago

Wait til these 4 miscreants get sentenced and they experience what it's like to be on the receiving end of prison's version of "gay hate crime". Butter up, boys!

Randall Uhrich 4 years, 5 months ago

Wait til these 4 miscreants get sentenced and they experience what it's like to be on the receiving end of prison's version of "gay hate crime". Butter up, boys!

hungryhustler 4 years, 5 months ago

He probably thought the guys were cute:)

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 4 years, 5 months ago

That's true, perhaps the men in the car felt like victims themselves.

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 4 years, 5 months ago

Here's the thing: I don't really think you can call it a hate crime when you contribute to the situation. Had Rudolph been walking down the street wearing a Gay Pride shirt and had he been jumped, that's a hate crime. When you converse with (and accept a ride from) complete strangers, you're complicit in engaging the situation, and partly responsible for whatever happens from that point forward. It's no more of a "hate crime" than someone fighting someone else because they were being a jerk ( imagine someone saying, "But he attacked me because I was being rude to him and his girlfriend! It was a hate crime against me specifically because I was being rude!" ).

As humans, we don't all have to like each other. We don't have to associate with each other. But we should always respect each other. The guys in the car didn't go out that night looking for gay people to hit, they went out to have a good time. They themselves obviously aren't gay, and they aren't associating with anyone that is gay. That's respecting the fact that they knew there are gay people in Lawrence, on Mass, who are associating with other gays, and they chose not to associate with it. If that's how they feel, as a gay person, why would you hop into a car with them? I think they misplaced their trust and felt betrayed.

But I think the argument most have comes down to the question of what's wrong with being gay? There are many, many reasons that someone might not agree with the choices or fundamental philosophies (moral or otherwise) of the gay community. And, honestly, it doesn't matter what these philosophies are; what matters is that they create an uncomfortable situation to some, and people don't like being in uncomfortable situations. If this car full of guys was out at Replay till 2, then they were looking to relax and have a good time. No one wants to be uncomfortable and you have to respect that.

I don't think anyone made the correct choice in dealing with the situation. Assumptions were made by both parties, and neither was correct. I don't think it's right that he this has been touted as a hate crime in hopes of raising money, but I do wish Rudolph a speedy recovery and hope that he is able to not only heal his external wounds but also the trauma that the situation has caused in his life.

jafs 4 years, 5 months ago

If they are so uncomfortable sitting in the car with a gay man that they have to beat him up, they have serious issues.

Why not simply let him out of the car?

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 4 years, 5 months ago

At the most extreme, that's what should have happened.

jaybark 4 years, 5 months ago

Seriously? So, by your first paragraph's logic, if a child is coaxed into a vehicle by a stranger with a candy bar saying he knows her mother, she is complicit in any events that happen afterward. Mr. Neugebauer did not get into a car with people he knew to be uncomfortable with gay people. Alot of people in this space have dedicated paragraphs to blaming Mr. Neugebauer for getting into a car at 2am. None of these people, granted, have ever made a split decision at 2am that was regrettable the next day, I assume. But beside that point, do you honestly believe Mr. Neugebauer would've knowingly accepted a ride from guys he thought for one second were violent toward gay men? And to side with the executors of a hate crime on the grounds that being around gay people made them "uncomfortable" is as ridiculous as siding with a rapist because he wanted sex. I don't (and I doubt anyone really) cares whether or not these four cowards set out that evening to beat up someone over their sexual orientation. The fact is that they, knowingly and with malicious intent, sent a man to the hospital after discovering that he is gay. That is a hate crime by definition. What will be sadly ironic is watching the ringleader of this group of scared, poorly-raised bigots weep like he's just been beaten within an inch of his life when finally arrested and convicted.

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 4 years, 5 months ago

If the child happens to be a 27 year old senior in college, then yes, your analogy would have some merit. Otherwise, you're comparing his logic and restraint to that of a child, which isn't the case. Being drunk isn't an excuse to act like an idiot, it isn't an excuse to do whatever you want, and getting into a car with complete strangers at 2 AM is very careless whether you have been drinking or not. Using alcohol as a crutch for your mistakes does say a lot about yourself, and it seems as if Rudolph thinks that he did no wrong. (That's akin to saying, "Give him a break, he was drunk when he raped her!"). Well at a certain point, you have to grow up, stop having the victim mentality, and actually take responsibility for the mistakes you have made in your life.

If you would have cared to finish reading my post, you would have realized that I didn't side with anyone in this situation. Every person acted without regard to the consequences that could happen to them. That's obvious, no one is without blame. But he wasn't beaten within an inch of his life. Orbital fractures are second only to broken noses in their prevalence of cranial injuries.

I do think it's ironic that you mention the upbringing of the males in the car without knowing anything about them. Would it be safe to assume that Mr. Neugebauer's parents didn't raise him to know that drinking and getting into a stranger's car after the bars close is a good idea? I don't think so.

jaybark 4 years, 5 months ago

Since the earlier comparison doesn't hold merit with you, I'll change the scenario: a girl meets a guy at a bar, thinks he's nice and goes home with him and is raped. She was complicit in what happened to her because she thought the guy was nice? The point is that no one is complicit in being attacked unprovoked, regardless of circumstance. And yes, by dismissing the situation under the banner "no one made the correct choice in dealing with the situation" sides with the attackers as much as the victim.

DrRustinMcGillicuddy 4 years, 5 months ago

Again, that analogy is lacking, but much more on point. The scenario you mentioned, unfortunately, does happen. Everyone knows that. So when faced with the choice of going home with, again, a stranger, as an adult, you have to consider the consequences of your actions. As a female, one of those is getting raped. Another is getting pregnant. Another is obtaining an STD. As a male, you have to worry that this "nice" girl you just isn't a crazy, and is going to sue and slander you by saying she was raped during a consensual evening. Pregnancy notwithstanding, the other consequences apply to the male as well. The chance of all of these scenarios, you hope, is small. But you're aware that they're possible. So, I mean, yeah, at a certain level there is some responsibility on both parties. Please don't think I'm defending or encouraging rape, that's heinous. Rape is a pretty awkward analogy for any situation because it's a very personal crime, on a much different table than everything else.

Don't think I've been replying to these comments because I'm an ass or because I have nothing better to do. I just think it's very important that some of the people who've commented here understand how a situation like this happens, how it could have been prevented, and the reasonings for it.

jaybark 4 years, 5 months ago

I can see the point you're making - that a person shouldn't put him or herself in a potentially dangerous situation. But, again, the point that's oddly belabored here is that a momentary error in judgment does not award blame to the victim of a violent attack. As I believe someone posted earlier, it's not as though he went walking through downtown Beirut with an Uzi strapped to his chest. He (as he himself has posted) accepted a ride, was dropped off as promised but was then convinced by people he, at that point, had no reason to mistrust to get back in the car. I don't believe you're trying to be an ass with your rebuttals. I do believe, however, that part of your arguments attempt to justify the aggressors' attitudes. Call me a liberal crybaby but I find no room in civilized society for attitudes and worldviews that allow people to feel any personal justification for violence committed against others for no reason other than some irrational bigotry.

geekyhost 4 years, 5 months ago

No. You're not partially responsible for what happens from that point forward any more than a woman is responsible for being raped if she goes out on a date.

jogger 4 years, 5 months ago

A. No one is complicit in an interaction that ends at the hospital. B. 6th and Mass is well covered by cameras, if you were also in the car and not also guilty, coming forward would be wise. C. My guess is the punch from the back of the head was what caused the face to hit the cardoor in the effort to escape. Is this not also kidnapping? D. I used to feel perfectly safe downtown at 2 am after work or Freestate or friends or music, or just out because my apartment was way too hot, even at 2 am. Lawrence could be safe. Lawrence should be safe.

E. Some one, somewhere, and a community, raised those guys in that car. Sad.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I still feel pretty safe in Lawrence anywhere at night. As long as there arent any dogs loose... I will just be sure to take the shoe leather express -lets go to to city hall and get more cameras put in the city.

jafs 4 years, 5 months ago

I urge you to reconsider wandering around at 2am alone.

Lawrence is not nearly as safe as it used to be.

Zachary Stoltenberg 4 years, 5 months ago

oh yes, let's spend my taxpayer money because I'm a dumbass.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

Again, dude sorry you got bopped in the head. Not good. But, no more friggin cameras pleeeeeze.

gr 4 years, 5 months ago

"Is this not also kidnapping?"

Wow. You're really spinning it.

Kelly Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

I'm guessing if it was your cheekbone that was broken and your eye swollen shut, you might feel differently about that.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

want to pay the $20,000 in medical expenses?

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

want to pay the $20,000 in medical expenses?

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I didnt say that, the story said that-here... They didnt stop and ask me for a ride-I'd ridden with them a block prior (I MADE NO VERBALS TO THEM DURING THAT TIME EITHER) and as i started to walk home-they insisted i ride with them to a party-i said no several times-but it was peer pressure and I dont have a lot of friends so I was a bit insecure-decided to go to a party-then one mentioned something about gay-the driver turned around and asked me-after confirmation-i was told to get the (explicit) out-and the guy that hit me said, 'we dont put up with that (explicit)' and punched me in the temple from behind. i took it like a man too, he didnt knock me down and i walked away-ALIVE. your opinion is noted-but might i suggest that you choose your arguments carefully because it's not a matter of whether or not i made the wrong decision-which i admit to doing and therefore dont need you to reaffirm the obvious-i am a victim and was attacked-without provocation and it was for happening to admit that i prefer the company of other men-i could have lied-i think maybe i should have lied-perhaps i made the wrong decision there-but the point is that this is said and done-the culprits have not been found and this HATRED STOPS NOW

pace 4 years, 5 months ago

Pretty sure our police will find it not a hate crime, They really don't have empathy for gay victims, it makes them feel uncomfortable. Anyone who thinks someone deserves to be beat because they are homosexual is, of course, a low life criminal and trashier than litter. The police prefer their victims to have no ambiguity, clearer for them. I think it should be attempted murder, assault and a hate crime. Sorry that some think hate and assault should be a protected privilege for homophobes.

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

BS...there are cops spying on me. And you too.

Bob Forer 4 years, 5 months ago

Sociopaths don't discriminate. They don't give a damn whether their prey is gay, white, black, jewish, Lutheran or drunk and stupid. They get their pleasure in the huring and hitting. Ain't personal. I am not suggesting the victim deserved to be hit. But i am sugesting that if anything shoud be learned from this case, it shoud be about the the dangers of being horny young, and stupid, and not being gay. .

Bob Forer 4 years, 5 months ago

Sociopaths don't discriminate. They don't give a damn whether their prey is gay, white, black, jewish, Lutheran or drunk and stupid. They get their pleasure in the huring and hitting. Ain't personal. I am not suggesting the victim deserved to be hit. But i am sugesting that if anything shoud be learned from this case, it shoud be about the the dangers of being horny young, and stupid, and not being gay. .

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

Why did you capitalize the L in Lutheran and not in any of the other 'comparative' words?

monkey_c 4 years, 5 months ago

I think Lutheran would be the only word considered a proper noun in this instance.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I actually grew up Lutheran, I was just wanting to make reference to the religious perspective-it's proper to capitalize God as well.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

I actually grew up Lutheran, I was just wanting to make reference to the religious perspective-it's proper to capitalize God as well.

Clark Coan 4 years, 5 months ago

Didn't another gay man get beaten up a few years ago by the Replay?

deboutonner 4 years, 5 months ago

LOL you should get deleted from earth.

You clearly didn't read the article and just wanted to bash.

He did not just get punched in the eye.

"His eye is purple and swollen shut. His eye socket is shattered, and he has an indentation in his face where his cheek bone used to be." He may not be in ICU but this is still pretty messed up.

Danimal 4 years, 5 months ago

It must take a big man to sucker-punch someone from behind. I hope they find these guys and throw the book at them. He may have made a bad decision accepting a ride from strangers, but that doesn't mean he deserved to have his face broken. Frankly I think that it's sad, even though it is 2010, that we live in a world where someone can never accept kindness from strangers for fear they'll be victimized. I'm sure they'll find his assailants eventually. Guys like this like to brag about how bad they are, or one of them will get in some trouble and roll over on the others.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 5 months ago

I am not a supporter of "hate crimes" a crime is a crime. This guy was assaulted period. He deserves no special treatment. Is there going to be a more harsh punishment if you beat up someone gay, over beating up a 'normal' person? If a 'rich person' is beat up by a bunch of 'poor people' is that a "hate crime"? Crime is crime; let's not make different standards for different peoples. That is nothing but divisive.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

let us ask the Jews is perhaps an individual incident of murder is equal to being targeted for extinction as a group.

I am sure you will not get it, but most of the rest of the world does, including law enforcement who by and large support hate crimes laws.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 5 months ago

If someone beat you up (or a family member of yours)...their punishment should be exactly the same as the idiots who beat this man. I'll stand up for you (and your family), even if you won't stand up for yourself.

Now I do support tougher punishments where children are involved.

Go ahead, argue that one...."If I, or my family get beat up...let's let them go free!!" Not if I can help it.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

I am glad most law enforcement and lawmakers...and in fact most human beings do understand what you fail to grasp...that our society can not tolerate anything that could create the repeat of the Holocaust.

A value you do not seem to share.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 5 months ago

Do you realize you are now guilty of hate speech? We don't use the "H" word, or the "R" word. A person who cannot see is visually challenged, a person is developmentally challenged and not "R". Do you still go around calling African-Americans the "N" word too? I think based on your cruel insensitivity your post should be removed. (FYI: you can still use "Deaf" that's what the "Deaf Community" prefers over hearing impaired/challenged.) Please do not use those offensive & prejudice words again. Show some respect. Thank you.

c_doc77 4 years, 5 months ago

ivalueamerica,

More logical fallacies from you? Obviously genocide is on a much larger scale than murder, as it involves mass murder. Whether the target is Jewish people, indigenous peoples, or someone else. The ethnicity of the persons involved has nothing to do with it. Murder is murder, and genocide is genocide.

jaybark 4 years, 5 months ago

If you're interested in fallacies of logic, please direct your attention to the fact that laws executing harsher punishment for murder committed for reasons of ethnicity, race, creed, or sexual orientation are in place so that murder does not become mass murder. I know how you hate people bringing up Hitler (as though he existed in some archaic period in history and that we don't have groups that teach his idiocy in this country en masse), but the Shoah began with a few violent acts against Jewish people committed by a small group of bigots.

mr_right_wing 4 years, 5 months ago

Yeah I can't say I can understand the logic or even rational thinking there. If everyone is punished equally, crimes against gays and minorities are not swept under the carpet; we'll start hunting down that group and putting them in concentration camps?! (Paranoid?) Don't you people trust obama not to let that happen? Where is your faith in him? He is half African-American, did you know that?.

Criminals need to be on notice -- be sure the person you attack is a male, white and without any disability; then go ahead and have at ''em!!! I would think that would cause more bad feelings towards gays and minority groups...they have more protection than the rest of us--they are elevated above us, a privileged group.

OldEnuf2BYurDad 4 years, 5 months ago

"“Once we heard about this, I contacted the board, and everyone unanimously agreed: We should try to shed light on this,” Hakes said. "

That sounds like code for "exploit the story". He was victimized once by the haters; I hope he's not victimized now by his "friends".

equalaccessprivacy 4 years, 5 months ago

If something especially despicable and hateful (like an assault or a profiling incident) happens to you because you're being regarded and treated as a member of a protected class--and things like this occur based on that warped logic everyday in Lawrence, KS--then this is by definition discriminatory and an act of psychological or physical violence. It's a huge injustice to be singled out for bias-motivated oppression/harm in this fashion.

Basically, if you weren't being discriminatorily regarded and treated as a representative of a soccial minority group the rights violation and savaging of your human dignity would not have ever happened---which is why I hate labels and the one-dimensional stereotypes they give rise to. Bigots love labels though- saves them from having to think and reflect and treat everyone the same and like human beings.

The KU cops are so committed to preventing bias-based crimes they deep-six profiling reports in order to help the Orwellian school "Equal Opportunity" office cover their dishonest rear ends.

ponyboy11 4 years, 5 months ago

I am a Lesbian in the Lawrence area and I too had a run in with Mr. Rudolph Neugebauer III a couple years ago and would be incline to think he might not be the innocent victim of a hate crime.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

Is that so? If you dont mind informing me of who you are I'd really appreciate it. Also, I have have already admitted previously to having a mouth but I didnt say anything to these guys. I am sorry that you feel that way 'ponyboy11' please, email me. rcneuii@gmail.com

beatrice 4 years, 5 months ago

They hated his left eye.

Oh, and homophobia is queer.

Kelly Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

People like to place blame on the victims of crimes because it gives them a false sense of security.

If a straight man had accepted a ride from these same people, or if the victim in this case had denied his homosexuality, it's highly likely that there would have been no crime. THAT is what makes this a hate crime.

I was assaulted by a man in my own driveway at my old home in SW Lawrence a couple of years ago. He was a drunk underage frat boy who was partying a couple of houses down the street, and somehow ended up in my yard. I didn't see him when I pulled in to my garage and suddenly there he was behind me. He threw my phone down on the ground and started pushing me around. I was able to retrieve my phone and get help. I know of one person who is of the opinion that if I had been at home sleeping rather than out with friends until 1:30 am, this wouldn't have happened, therefore it is MY fault that it happened. It's true that it wouldn't have happened, but that doesn't make it my fault!

Had I been raped or badly beaten and it ended up in the paper, I'm sure there would have been plenty of comments on here placing the blame on me for having been out late.

Raider 4 years, 5 months ago

So you let some "drunk underage frat boy" whip your a$$ in your own driveway? Seriously.... no offense but what kind of adult man allows that to happen on his own property? Some KID? Really? Whip his a$$ and call the cops to arrest him. Protect your property dude.

Kelly Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

Multi - I'm not so sure I'd be considered a lady in any circle...LOL

Kelly Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

LOL...I'm a female. And I didn't get my a$$ whipped (fortunately), just got shoved around a couple of times. I am guessing had I been male he wouldn't have even made his presence known, but it's hard to say because he was so ridiculously drunk.

I'd like to think that if I were a man I would be intimidating to drunk frat boys :)

Liberty275 4 years, 5 months ago

Given that answer, I doubt you could be victimized. A person might assault you and do you harm, but you don't seem like a victim. Kudos for that.

jafs 4 years, 5 months ago

The blame clearly lies with the folks who assaulted this man.

I read the suggestions about being more careful, not getting into strangers' cars at 2am, etc. as being more about how to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the first place.

We all need to use good judgment if we don't want to wind up in bad situations.

Which would you prefer:

a. Not have this happen to you. b. Have this happen to you and get to blame the people who did it.

Kelly Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

In all seriousness, what do you think the criteria are/should be to qualify as a "hate crime"?

As I stated above in a prior post, it would seem that this person would likely have not been assaulted had he either been heterosexual to begin with OR denied his homosexuality when questioned. Because he was assaulted only after admitting he is gay, that is what qualifies it as a "hate crime" in my mind.

Kelly Johnson 4 years, 5 months ago

Thanks for clarifying. I see what you are saying. It seems that they weren't looking to assault anyone in particular, however, and that it was a reaction to finding out he was a homosexual. I don't know the language of the law for hate crimes (as "ivalueamerica" so kindly pointed out), so I don't know if it could be proven to be one simply as the story has been reported.

No matter what, it's terrible that this man was hurt and I hope the people/persons responsible are brought to justice.

ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

fortunately for the USA, neither you nor popcorn decide that criteria....you seem to confuse your opinion for the law.

AndyDoubleU 4 years, 5 months ago

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beatrice 4 years, 5 months ago

Why? Because we are a police state and he was out past curfew?

Yes, people should take precautions to avoid having their eye crushed by a chump throwing a sucker punch, but it is ALWAYS the fault of the criminal. ALWAYS. Period. End of story.

jafs 4 years, 5 months ago

Again, which do you prefer:

a. Getting beaten up and getting to blame the folks who did it. b. Not getting beaten up.

I generally prefer to avoid getting into situations where something bad is likely to happen to me - being able to blame the other guy afterward is not worth it.

AndyDoubleU 4 years, 5 months ago

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AndyDoubleU 4 years, 5 months ago

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independant1 4 years, 5 months ago

If the young men in the car hadn't found this poor fellow, I'm sure they would've found someone to pound on. Here's hoping the ignorant cretins pay for thier crime against another human being.

Boombopdapitty 4 years, 5 months ago

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ivalueamerica 4 years, 5 months ago

i suppose you blame women who are raped as well for dressing sexy or flirting?

Boombopdapitty 4 years, 5 months ago

No where in my response did I blame him- just that as a person that knows him I question the way he lives his social life. It's a little childish.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

1.) I wasnt out drinking I went out with my neighbors-I havent even lived in lawrence for the past year-I was in college-as an honors student, joined a fraternity-which might i add is not full of partiers-including myself-i was also president of the executive board of the residential council 2.) I admit to having a mouth and by all means if I'd have opened my mouth-I'd be the first to admit it-but in over 2 years (since the last time I was at henry's upstairs-which i was highly inebriated-I've grown a lot-i'm 27 Sir) 3.) Thanks for your opinion-I'd love to know who you are and what stand up productive citizen you are to the community-I volunteer hundreds of hours every year for Breast Cancer Awareness, AIDS cure research, Youth AIDs, Self Defense, and the Catholic Church-What do you do?

Boombopdapitty 4 years, 5 months ago

You missed the point- when you get emotional Rudy don't internet rage. Go and attack Sue's house.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

sigh (thanks for the smile) who are you? email me rcneuiii@gmail.com She hated me right after I told her I had an antique Mercedes-she just wanted an excuse to have validity to her opinion. I dont dislike the woman-I dont remember being there that night at all either.
I didnt show up for a year there because I was so embarrassed and when I did it was only to drop off an apology letter-a year after that-i'd moved and here we are 3 years later. Quit saying I party because I dont-all I do is stay at my parents house-my new neighbors coaxed me out of the house-she's a pretty lesbian-from NY-and yet so carefree and sweet-ADHD sorry btw I dont have rage-I'm too lazy to put forth the effort-I'd almost say I'm nearly passive now due to the attack-I dont want anything to do with a confrontation.

equalaccessprivacy 4 years, 5 months ago

Learn to treat everyone the same. If all the bigots in Lawrence and KS would just learn to mind their own business half the problem would be solved. Don't assume strangers want to deal with you--competent, politically aware people don't approach strangers on the basis of offensive stereotypes. If you bother strangers they do have the right to assert their wish to be let alone without being blamed by some self-regarding helpful hypocrite who is the true offender and aggressor. What rights does anyone who feels free to approach others on the basis of offensive bias deserve. I wouldn't hit them, but I sure would give them an earful.

It's insulting to be regarded as so needy you would welcome" help" from complete strangers, and it's a mark of backwoods ignorance to assume such clumsy gambits are welcome. Most people would prefer the freedom that being ignored by strangers accords to aggressive discriminatory attention. It takes a braindead meglomaniac to think you have anything to offer others would value -since you so obviously lack the key to successful human relationships --understanding.

You are interfering with the safety and equal rights of others and their ability to freely enjoy public space. Lawrence is by far the most bigoted and hostile place for diversity I've ever lived. Apparently, Kansas parents train up their kids to terrorize strangers and be complete self-flattering bigots and totally ignore the fact they are treating others unfairly and unequally based on what they look like. It's immoral-- and please realize the limitations and "struggles" of others exist mainly in your eyes until you start going about aggressively,prejudicially imposing them on complete strangers. My experience of living in Lawrence has been one of overwhelming civil rights injustice. I think the LJWorld should showcase on a weekly or daily basis someone whose been shafted on a perceived protected class basis.

If you're the type of person who goes around blindly assigning others helpee roles, you probably don't know how to help yourself. By definition you are one of those obnoxious do-gooders who thinks it's possible to fix the world before they fix themselves. You need a lot of help with your brains and awareness, but likely you are ineducable.You're fawningly in love with the idea of yourself as a helpful person, but it's a egotistical delusion. There is a total disconnect between your stated intention and the abusive results. Bottom line, people deserve to have their boundaries and privacy respected.

Zachary Stoltenberg 4 years, 5 months ago

Lawrence is Bigoted? There are always a few people that are out there but Lawrence is the MOST liberal and accepting place I have ever lived. Suffice it to say that if this had happened where I grew up, we would be reading an obituary instead of political comments about bigotry. Hope this young man gets better and makes different choices in the future. There are dangerous idiots everywhere, Lawrence is no exception.

igby 4 years, 5 months ago

He got drunk and fell down is what it looks like to me. Just an observation. Seen a lot of shiners in my day, but this looks like a kiss the door or ground kind of shiner.

igby 4 years, 5 months ago

He's could be faking it to get attention or wagging the dog and coming out in a big public way.

I would look for the thumb nail scrape on his cheek; their is not one.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

If you would like up until the broadcast and after please email me rcneuiii@gmail.com I didnt fall, i wasnt drunk, i am clumsy at times but I didnt trip or fall.

kcavp 4 years, 5 months ago

The Kansas City Anti-Violence Project (KCAVP) serves victims of hate violence in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) community. A hate crime is a criminal offense committed against a person or property out of hatred for who they are or who people think they are. These acts are motivated in whole or in part by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, ethnic/national origin group, gender, or sexual orientation group. These crimes are usually more brutal than other kinds of attacks. They are not only meant to hurt the victim, but they are also meant to send a message of hate and fear to the larger community. No matter who you are or appear to be, everyone deserves to be safe. You are not alone. It is not your fault. Please contact KCAVP if you or someone you know is a victim of a hate crime. | www.kcavp.org | 816.561.0550 |

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

Thank your for commenting on these comments. Thank you for contacting me, thank you for helping me, I wasnt even aware of any sort of a victim group to help me in the first place let alone LGBT, I couldnt be more thankful. I'll volunteer in any way I can or do anything in my power to help the organization and step up when I see others in need-as I always have. I've never had anyone help me like this. My own father, when asked if he would help if when I healed my face was deformed to pay and I would repay him-said no-that's why I thought that I should say something. If my own family (my father is Lutheran, tolerant but not supportive of my 'lifestyle' as he puts it) wont help me then who would?! who could? I know that if I had the means-I'd help someone-I still volunteer my time in various organizations-I speak out too.
After crying for an hour once I found out there some someone-several someones' out there supporting me-I showed my father the comments on facebook, told him the stories about how thankful other victims are for me speaking out and not hiding, i read him emails from other members of my family and he cried. This has made us closer, stronger, and it seems the support has opened his eyes. He is not a bigot and wasnt raised to be one-he had less than pleasant experiences with other guys aggressively making advances towards him when he was younger on his own at 16 after his father died of cancer at age 38. So, KCAVP I want to thank you again for your support-you've changed my family's life-from coast to coast-for the better. Once I've recovered-I will find them too-then lets send him and the guys with him the bill-maybe they can pay it-maybe not... but sometimes people win the lottery... Again, I'll help in any way I can. RCNEUIII@gmail.com With Great Respect, Rudolph C. Neugebauer III

begin60 4 years, 5 months ago

Thanks tokcavp for the good information!

Don't know what the discouraging frame of reference is for Kansans, but Lawrence is by far the most backward and bigoted place I've ever lived, and the Powers that Be are amazingly more corrupt here than anywhere else. The judges are smooching with the cops and DAS and laughing about framing innocent people, who of course are only being criminalized due to perceived protected class status. It's all about conflict-of-interest and being in bed with and selling out to those in power, not about doing the right, reasonable thing.

Talk about frightening ignorance and incompetence and people who totally complacent with prejudice and judging others by stereotypes. All the patronizing 18-century ideas about chivalry and selfish "helping" need to go too. Keep your ignorance out of my face and we'll get along fine. If I don't know you I might not want to--only complete stupidity and thickheadedness gives you false bravado to approach me. You have no business imposing your offensive hick attitudes on others and hindering them with your negative thinking.

corkster 4 years, 5 months ago

wow. do you actually know this guy, papermateclassic? just the fact that you say he stalks "straight" guys, and that makes him a perv, is a huge red flag on who you are. how is that relevant? so because he's gay, he's not allowed to be attracted to straight guys? hot is hot. i'm a straight woman, and i find certain gay guys attractive. it's a shame (for me) that they're gay. what, are you threatened by a gay man because he's attracted to who he is attracted to, regardless of their orientation? SO WHAT! chill. gay people are not deviants. they're not out to get you. and you call him a perv, and a freak? maybe what you perceive as stalking is just a vulnerability for being around people like you who broadcast to the public your disrespectful opinion of him. or maybe your just jealous of someone who is strong enough to be themselves, while you hide behind your judgement and misunderstanding. has he ever been arrested for stalking? has he ever harmed anyone? what evidence do you have that he is a dangerous person, hmmm?

jbiegs 4 years, 5 months ago

I have a hard time believing he got a shiner like that the way he describes. I'm just calling it like I see it. Looks to me like the person that gave him the black eye would've had to be standing directly in front of him and not seated in a car to inflict that kind of damage.

RCNIII 4 years, 5 months ago

jbiegs, the guy was standing out of the car-he opened the door for me-as i got out of the passenger side rear of the mid 90's honda accord-i walked a step near the rear of the car -where mass street is and he hit me on the left side-i dont know if he ran up and did it or had something in his hand but he and i were both outside of the car and he said, 'we dont put up with that (explicit) and hit me-normally i'm the type to react fast and turn around to see what he looked like and get the tag number but the pain was excruciating and all i could think of was to get away-i went around the left corner where quintons is and two guys-who saw nothing-saw that i was hurt and tried to help me-my double blurred vision and the skull fracture had me disoriented and i couldnt even walk straight-i have surgery tomorrow-i might lose some motor control of my left eye-i didnt make anything up-does that help?

yankeevet 4 years, 5 months ago

Ok; can we go on too something else now......this is old news

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