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Archive for Thursday, December 2, 2010

Haskell students building trails to connect Haskell, Baker wetlands

Wetlands advocate Mike Caron talks about work being done to the trails on the Haskell Wetlands, which are north of 31st Street. The project, which is organized by Haskell students aims to connect the wetlands on the north side of 31st Street with the Baker Wetlands on the south side.

December 2, 2010

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Wetlands advocate Mike Caron balances himself as he passes over a stream crossing Tuesday evening at the Haskell wetlands north of 31st Street on a tour of the area Tuesday. The project, which is organized by Haskell Indian Nations University students with the Wetlands Preservation Organization, aims to connect the Baker and Haskell wetlands.

Wetlands advocate Mike Caron balances himself as he passes over a stream crossing Tuesday evening at the Haskell wetlands north of 31st Street on a tour of the area Tuesday. The project, which is organized by Haskell Indian Nations University students with the Wetlands Preservation Organization, aims to connect the Baker and Haskell wetlands.

Wetlands advocate Mike Caron stops to talk about work being done over the past year to create an eco-walk in the Haskell wetlands north of 31st Street on a tour of the area Tuesday. The project, which is organized by Haskell Indian Nations University students with the Wetlands Preservation Organization, aims to connect the Baker and Haskell wetlands.

Wetlands advocate Mike Caron stops to talk about work being done over the past year to create an eco-walk in the Haskell wetlands north of 31st Street on a tour of the area Tuesday. The project, which is organized by Haskell Indian Nations University students with the Wetlands Preservation Organization, aims to connect the Baker and Haskell wetlands.

Swamp Fest

On Friday, KU Environs will host Swamp Fest, a fundraiser to support the Haskell Eco-Walk. The event, which includes food, a silent auction and three bands, will be held at the Jackpot Music Hall, 943 Mass. Doors open at 7 p.m. and bands will start playing around 9 p.m.

Bright pink ribbons and piles of limestone rock bound by chicken wire mark a rudimentary trail that students at Haskell Indian Nations University hope will one day morph into a stronger connection between the Baker and Haskell wetlands.

For the past year, members from Haskell’s Wetlands Preservation Organization have been clearing paths and manually hauling stones in an effort to build the Haskell Eco-Walk through a section of the wetlands north of 31st Street. The project has been aided by Kansas University students and community members.

“The original idea was to build an environmentally friendly walkway, a bridge both literally and figuratively, between Haskell students and other students at KU and Baker universities,” said Patrick Austin Freeland, a former president of the Wetlands Preservation Organization.

The hope is for the trail to create a path for students to travel between the school and Baker Wetlands and for those visiting the Baker Wetlands to have access to the Haskell Wetlands.

“Whenever the wetlands flood, there isn’t a good way to get back through there,” Freeland said.

Discussions for the eco-walk began in 2008. Since then, the organization was awarded a local $800 grant from the Elizabeth Schultz Environmental Fund. That money enabled the group to design the routes and test footings that would allow a boardwalk to be built in the parts of the wetlands that routinely flood.

The group is applying for more grants and working with Westar Energy to use old telephone poles for the boardwalk, said Jason Hering, a KU senior who is part of KU Environs and coordinating with Haskell students on the project.

To finish the trail and boardwalk could take at least $3,000, Hering said.

At dusk one night this week, Mike Caron, a local wetlands advocate, wove his way through the path, which crossed over beaver dams and wooden logs. Caron, who regularly works on the trail, has spotted bobcats, herons and raccoons along the trails.

The eco-walk will be made up of three nature trails, totaling close to 2 miles. Part of the project includes a kid’s trail, which is bordered by a thick Osage orange hedgerow covered by moss. Another section of the trail connects to Haskell’s Medicine Wheel, an earthwork piece designed by artist Stan Herd.

Underlying the project is politics: A hope that more exposure to the wetlands will convince people to protest construction of a highway through a section of the Baker Wetlands.

Work will continue through the winter, Caron said, and he hopes enough money is raised to place decking on the boardwalk.

Comments

ddayot 4 years ago

Putting in close to 2 miles of trails? How dare they disturb the habitat of all those creatures.

rockchalker52 4 years ago

We should finish the SLT. The road is needed.

ClaroAtaxia 4 years ago

So in order to increase awareness of the wetlands and hopefully prevent the building of a road, they themselves build a road through the wetlands, interesting idea...

pooter 4 years ago

What hypocrites, if they really cared about the wetlands like they claim they wouldn't be building anything out there.

The only difference between a road and a path is the width.

*

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

The only difference between you and a rock are... Well, can't think of one.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Considerably less nonsensical than claiming that a hiking trail is the same as 8-10 lanes of superhighway.

ToriFreak13 4 years ago

i'm pretty sure those telephone poles were treated with chemicals...

TopJayhawk 4 years ago

Yes, it is called creasote. Very nasty stuff. Not a good mix for wetlands. But then again, the whole wetland thing is a fantasy. And no, if they cared they would leave it alone, and certainly not bring in old telephone polls. Jeez.

Soap 4 years ago

I love a good Indian trail.. Also, Mike Caron is the man!!

Vinny1 4 years ago

Anyone ever been to the southeast US? The everglades region?

They have all kinds of swamps and wetlands there. They built all kinds of roads through them. The wetlands there are doing just fine.

Slaphappy 4 years ago

Instead of driving Bison off of cliffs, Bison could be scared down the path into the mire for easier gettin'.

Fred Whitehead Jr. 4 years ago

It is amusing to me how these students can find so many ways to avoid learning a trade or a skill and spend time with these emotional, political events to shove their swamp in the face of the community that supports their school and education.

Clark Coan 4 years ago

A couple of hours a week is not going to affect their studying.

geekin_topekan 4 years ago

"these students can find so many ways to avoid learning a trade or a skill and spend time with these emotional, political events" ++++ You have got haskell confused with a boarding school.

Imagine where W. would be if he hadn't spent time working on emotional political events. . .at where? Texas?

kernal 4 years ago

How do you know it will, NavyVet? A study break in the outdoors, doing some hard labor for a couple of hours, makes the brain and body work better.

vulcan805 4 years ago

They should put some extra money aside so that they can build a nice crosswalk across the SLT.

Boston_Corbett 4 years ago

Just another effort by Tuschie to avoid reality and to increase the costs to the community of the SLT.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

You have to hand it to Mike Caron, he never gives up, nor is he ever encumbered by the truth! At the rate of their progress, however, the trail will open about the time that the new alignment of 31st st and the SLT are open for traffic. Just exactly what will be the purpose at that point? The decision to build the SLT on 32nd st was made in 2002 and 2008. Their lawsuit has already been rejected. KDOT will announce early next year that funding will be available by 2013 for construction. It is a little late for Mike to think that a protest by 3 to 5 people will have any sway in convincing anyone to not build the SLT on 32nd st. Like vulcan805 says - their time would be better spent convincing KDOT to build a pedestrian overpass!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Who needs truth when you have truthiness in an endless supply?

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

So, assuming the argument about peak oil is true, it logically follows that roads will be useless once gasoline power is exhausted? Yeah... that makes total sense. I assume our new solar vehicles will just hover or we will revert to actual horse power? Roads aren't going anywhere.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

This brings the lolz. Do you have a projected date range so I can shift my portfolio away from oil stock and buy horses?

Liberty275 4 years ago

It's always about 10 years off. The peak oil useful ID10Ts are always long on predictions and short on dates or even time frames.

In the mean time, they can have my 8 MPG Corvette when they man up enough to come take it.

Clark Coan 4 years ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Certainly no guilt coming from you.

How many Aryan Nation tattoos do you have again?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

It isn't about guilt. It's about honoring treaty obligations. But that wouldn't be true to your Aryan roots, I guess.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

I must admit that I do have at least a modicum of respect for you. Unlike the rest of the racists clamoring for their SLT, you don't make any attempt to conceal your bigotry.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

The Freeper site wouldn't have any problems with your posts at all.

Mike Ford 4 years ago

ignorance is so in vogue right now. all these commenters must think their ignorance is so popular. michael clayton...depending on where you've lived your government stole lands that you're still living on. Why don't you contact the Shawnee, Delaware, Kaw, or Pawnee Nations and thank your government for stealing their lands and paying them pennies on the dollar so that racist ingrates could make offensive comments and fall back on the rebelliously ignorant excuse known as politically incorrectness while you're living on their lands. Chi pisa li chinni ahalabi chitto micha nahollo okpulo.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Not to be blunt, but it seems to me that there was - at one point - a clash of civilizations (not in the Huntington style) between the "new world" and the "old world." Historical accounts portray it as a brutal conflict, but they seem to be clear on one point: the Native American won some battles but ultimately lost the war. So yeah, it seems to me - as distasteful as this statement may seem - that the land is not the Native American's, it belongs to the victor.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Yep. However, social Darwinism is a bit strong. Instead, I would suggest exactly what I argued above. It was a struggle between two armed groups. One lost. It is a pretty basic concept that underscores much of world history. As an example, you don't speak French as a primary language because the French - on multiple occasions - were unable to conquer your decendents.

Take_a_letter_Maria 4 years ago

SO, it was ok for one tribe to overwhelm another and take their land, but once the Europeans came over and did the same thing it became wrong.

OK, got it.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

So it's a free for all? When will you be out of your house so can I move in? (Next weekend would be a convenient time for me. If you need some help, I give you a hand putting your furniture on the curb.)

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Using similar logic, when will you be giving your land and home back to the Native Americans?

beeshlii 3 years, 11 months ago

i think this guy just said "Abracadabra!, white man disappear"!

Mike Ford 4 years ago

for the english speakers, there are no cuss words in choctaw, just honest descriptions of people.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Choctaw nompa nompalili (pardon my spelling, tuschkahoma)

christy kennedy 4 years ago

Wow. I was going to reply to an ignorant, insensitive comment but kept scrolling and there are too many. What is wrong with you people? Some of you would fight to the death to save the stadium parking lot for tailgating if something threatened the practice. What is so hard to understand about preserving land that's special to many of us and sacred to some—who are its rightful owners and caretakers? Just because you don't give a crap about something doesn't mean it has no value. It just has no value to you and nobody really gives a crap about that. And your "indian" jokes are stupid — saying nothing about these students and a lot, unfortunately, about you.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

You insult intelligence much more than you hurt feelings. (but I don't suppose you know much about intelligence.)

deec 4 years ago

I thought the far west Lawrence interchange was built to facilitate getting from western Lawrence to the KC metro. Just use that and go south on the Eudora exchange, K7, 435, or 635. It's not that difficult.

deec 4 years ago

I would think the buck or two of tolls would be offset by the amount of gas wasted sitting in the "horrible traffic" driving across town daily.

beeshlii 3 years, 11 months ago

well looks to me they took one of your eye to go with the duck ala wilbur...lol..

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Don't worry. There are lots of trolls who last quite awhile around here. Maybe you'll be one of them.

ferrislives 4 years ago

If you can get from W. Lawrence to K-10 in East Lawrence in "5 minutes", you're either high, speeding, or both.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

You mean a red-herring in much the same way your "poor, suffering rich people on the west side of town" style comments serve as a classic classist red-herring?

Mike Ford 4 years ago

actually the Choctaw language was the first code language used by the US Military when two groups of Oklahoma Choctaws were amongst the lost battalions surrounded by Germans on the French German border in World War One. Their superiors knew they spoke a language the Germans couldn't break so they spoke it and saved their fellow soldiers through radio transmissions behind enemy lines. All of this occurred while students at Haskell were banned by federal law from speaking their languages while going through Euro-American culture reprogramming that happened at every federal boarding school prior to 1930. Joseph Oklahombi, Oklahoma Choctaw soldier, overtook a German gun trench and captured 270 German soldiers by himself becoming known as the Choctaw Alvin York. He was awarded numerous medals from the US and French governments in World War One. He was also a code talker. Ironically, if you had anything from an opposing viewpoint that was empirical and not borderline rascist in nature, you probably wouldn't be censored. Since your comments had no factual basis and originated from some antiquated racial superiority point I've heard numerous times before you were censored. Just an observation. George Clooney probably wouldn't be happy that someone with your lack of intellect was using his characters name. You should probably use the handle of Slade Gorton or Jeff Benedict or Richard Blumenthal. Maybe even Antonin Scalia or John Roberts. All of them share a borderline dislike of indigenous peoples. You'd fit right in.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Tuschie's "issue" with whitey is that he is more whitey than Indian and that repulses him. He has never been comfortable with the lot that he has been "given" and so he constantly lashes out with nonsensical crap that he thinks is straightening all us pure whiteys out.

ssakcaj 4 years ago

A) He didn't capture them by himself.

"On October 8, 1918, at St. Etienne, France, Oklahombi assisted his unit as other than a translator. He and twenty-three fellow soldiers attacked an enemy position and captured 171 prisoners. They seized the artillery at the site and purportedly killed seventy-nine German soldiers, tended the wounded in "No Man's Land," and held their position for four days while under merciless attack."

B) They weren't Code Talkers. They themselves have stated they weren't Code Talkers. They just spoke Choctaw over the field telephones.

beeshlii 3 years, 11 months ago

Ever heard of "NAVAJO CODE TALKERS". The US MARINES Oorah!

doc1 4 years ago

Will they name it "The Trail of Beers?"

Liberty275 4 years ago

"Perhaps I should make fun of the Bataan Death March"

Why wouldn't you? Your enemy (members of the US military) were mistreated badly at the hands of others a long time ago. You should use it to score points against the military (the military also known as the guardians and protectors of oil to be turned into gasoline to run automotive beasts like hummers and corvettes. Did you know a corvette ZR1 will do 180 MPH off the showroom floor on oil gasoline protected by the US military?)

Mike Ford 4 years ago

since one of you can't spell and the other is stooping to the usual racist stereotypes that will eventually get your comment removed, neither one of you is worthy of further acknowledgements. Nice to see the dumb side of things.

pace 4 years ago

I commend the students and Mr. Caron for acting, doing something for the wetlands and for the community. Those paths make the wetland's exciting habitat accessible in a safe and respectful way. We need to learn how valuable wetlands are. Our education should not be only through reading, but observing. We need to encourage science and community work in our young people Not enough people stop and thank young people when they do good. Thanks.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Nice thought, Pace, but you have been snookered by Mike Caron, AGAIN ! The students that Mike is talking about must be the student ghosts of past because on the 3 or 4 work days that Mike has had on this project the medium age out there was 50+. There might have been 1-2 student aged people actually there. Come on people, this is not about getting people to walk in the "Haskell Wetlands" this is about his jealous rage that Baker got some free press (front page rather than Mike's pg 7 tripe) on Boyd's boardwalk and visiting area as well as his effort to get free advertisement for Mike's real cause which is "STOP THE SLT". It has nothing to do with educating people about why save the wetlands. If it did, he would be promoting completing the SLT on 32nd St and build the visitor center which will no doubt have thousands of kids visit it rather than the 13 or 14 that will ever visit Mike's nature walk.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Ooh, that evil Mike Caron. We all know there must be a self-serving motive involved. How could anyone seriously believe that Haskell and its Wetlands deserve any respect?

I'm sure there must a video out there showing him clubbing baby seals or something, right?

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Grow up, Bozo. When was the last time you posted a serious, truthful...and relevant blog???

pace 4 years ago

Siince i go by facts and you seem to go by a malformed imagination, you should apologize to me. You are lying. You use my post to spin your lie. If you want to oppose an issue , do it on your own words.. don't just declare what I write as untruth. In this particular case, you are at the very least a liar. just spinning a. made up story.. Maybe you are one of the lowest types of gossips and imagine your lie to be true. That is not my interest,, that is a matter of your character. was careful of my information, took care to be accurate in my thanks to those kids. And if I let you call my post inaccurate it would be allowing you to use my post to insult people who were doing something worth doing. So you are lying when you say i don't know what I was speaking of. My facts were accurate and you lied, in this particular. You might just hate the resistance to the bypass and wish to paint a false picture of everyone who says something you see as not getting with your program. I suggest you get in a program. You might not agree that the youth deserve thanks, that wetlands are not worth studying or science not to be encouraged but do that on your own. I suggest you apologize to me.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

No apology needed. I did not say you lied I just pointed out that you bought into Mr. Caron's lie. Mr. Caron wants you to believe that this is all about HINU students doing such a worthy deed...and you bought it. Go ahead, let's all give them applause - whether they are there are not. Do you feel better?

pace 4 years ago

Again, I was accurate, you might disagree with the merits of the work but you claiming that I bought some story without knowing what I said was accurate is your lie. You do owe me an apology. I don't expect you to do so, as you have shown in a later post to be nothing but a poser, willing to say anything, taking no personal responsibility for accuracy and or truth.

I commend the students and Mr. Caron for acting, doing something for the wetlands and for the community. Those paths make the wetland's exciting habitat accessible in a safe and respectful way. We need to learn how valuable wetlands are. Our education should not be only through reading, but observing. We need to encourage science and community work in our young people Not enough people stop and thank young people when they do good. Thanks.

TopJayhawk 4 years ago

Come to my grandson's bedroom at night. I'll show you some wetlands.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

BIA exists in theory to make sure that the US Govt. honors its treaty obligations with the many sovereign Indian nations. I suspect that many if not most Indian tribes would agree with its dissolution, as long as they are given a lump-sum settlement of several $trillion so that they could enforce those obligations on their own, and protect against the continued encroachment on what remains of their lands, including the Haskell Wetlands.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Fascinating, Seamus. Care to share your educational background, work experience and heritage? I assume you've got some serious post-grad work from a European school and that you aren't related to any of this Europeans who opted out of the Darwinian struggle you described in Europe.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

So the short answer is that you enjoy insulting people without providing your own credentials. Thanks.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Ah - there's Bozo livin' the dream again. Can you provide one shred of evidence that the Baker Wetlands does not belong to Baker University?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Determining "ownership" is a necessarily arbitrary process. And since you want to pave these wetlands, you've bought into the very arbitrary process that has determined that they belong to Baker, who for $8 million has agreed to allow KDOT to do whatever they want with them.

But clearly, your obsession over this topic says that your motivation is more than just a pavement fetish. It also indicates a deep disrespect for Haskell, and the Native Americans it serves.

But we've already covered that ground.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

What is "arbitrary" about a printed and signed title from the federal government? Your assumption of my disrespect for NA has no factual basis - therefore you are being disingenuous and slandering me based on your own personal feelings. Shame on you!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

That the federal government has the right to grant ownership is arbitrary from the start, and any title it may grant remains so.

And even the transfer of said title violated the federal rules regarding such transfers, but those violations were inconvenient to those wanting to make the transfer, so they were arbitrarily ignored, and remain so today.

But you like the outcome of all of that arbitrariness, so in your mind it becomes all the truthiness you need.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

And apparently what frustrates you that even though you call it arbitrary...it is protected by US property law and therefore you have no ability to contest it. Too bad! Now I can build "my road", lay down more asphalt, I'm salivating about it as type!

ssakcaj 4 years ago

No less arbitrary than your claim of Native American ownership.

redmoonrising 4 years ago

If they make it wide enough, can we drive over it?

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

You are confusing the activity (driving) with the viability of the fuel. I would suggest that as prices increase for various fuels, people will not give up the activity. Instead, they will simply search (as individuals, but more importantly as corporations) for alternate modes of fueling the activity.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

I can't decide if you really are as unintelligent as your posts indicate or if you simply enjoy wasting the time of others. My guess is a bit of both.

The problem with the "cars are going away" argument is that they won't. If peak oil is true (and that is a huge if), the increases in fuel costs will create market pressures that will, in turn, lead to more productive R&D into realistic alternative fuel choices for automobiles. This problem, like virtually all others, will be solved by technology and market forces. The assumption that people will simply walk away from the concept of an individual automobile is ludicrous. If you don't understand that concept, I can't help you.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Have you taken undergraduate macroeconomics?

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

I am done with this until you explain your credentials. Thanks.

geekin_topekan 4 years ago

Hmm.. good point.

So if the SLT would be completed, then the people who use it will fund the have-nots.

I don't think that would fly Mooch.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Could you provide evidence suggesting "personal autos will have a diminishing presence in our lives as we run into the problems associated with energy austerity." This seems highly counter-intuitive.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

So we are all going to revert to the horse?

Liberty275 4 years ago

LOL. every time you whine the word "racist" is becomes .05% less effective. The word is already worthless and on most people's ignore list.

You can only cry "racist" so many times before the village figures out you are just trying to manipulate them with a loaded word.

geekin_topekan 4 years ago

So all who walk, bike,or use the T have to fund a road that they have no intention of using? WTF?

kernal 4 years ago

Ever been to Europe, Singapore, Silicon Valley? A lot of people on this planet do just fine on bicycles and I'm not talking about just third world countries. Cars are often a necessity, especially in Los Angeles and Phoenix area - for now. That concept will need to change so we can keep oil for equipment, trains, planes, trucking industry, plastics, pharmaceutical manufactures, toothpaste, paint, shampoo, tar and the list goes on.

If I can ride up the hill to KU on a 10-speed at the age of 41, there's others that can do the same. I'm pretty sure there are others older than I who ride to the Hill when there's no snow or ice on the roads

Al Deathe 4 years ago

You make the choice to ride a bike, others have the choice not to! Everybody has a choice and when it is different than yours why is it wrong??

Flap Doodle 4 years ago

If you look in the encyclopedia under the heading "white liberal guilt", you'll find a photo of seamus & bozo.

Kyle Miller 4 years ago

Along with Mike Caron. Glad to see he is continuing to pat himself on the back!

pace 4 years ago

You claim to be a "pure whitey" . The only way for you to be accurate is scientific testing. After all that and if such could be determined, you would have clam to being a more accurate racist on one particular statement. Some could say this proves opposition to wet land preservation is driven by racism. I don't think that is correct, only some crack pot racists are attracted to the debate.

sissezz 4 years ago

well after reading all these comments ... it has pushed me into donating my money and time to build the paths!! LOL Thanks for the inspriation!!!!!

pace 4 years ago

The article should have included where one can donate to the paths.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

I would suggest that before you send your checks you go by and look at what has been "accomplished" in 4 months. If after that you are gullible enough to believe that it will EVER be a functional elevated walkway then send your checks to Mike Caron, 315 Parkhill Terrace, Lawrence, KS 66046

pace 4 years ago

idahowinds, you are pretending to be able to speak for the people who are doing the work. It is fraud . It is scummy to give a person's name and address under the pretense to be speaking for people you have no right to speak for. . You have no honor or principals. . Your words are fraudulent , your actions fraudulent and reprehensible, your motives are base and your sense of responsibility non existent.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

WHOA - Pace! You need to "Pace yourself". What in the world are you talking about. Where in my blog did I claim to have anything to do with Mr. Caron. Check the phonebook - that address is Mr. Caron's address. If you want to contribute - send him a check. You actually have no facts, other than Mr. Caron's statement, that ANY HINU students are involved. Did it EVER occur to you that you are the one without the FACTS? Did it occur to you that Mr. Caron may be using this project as an ulterior motive. Did it occur to you that this might be a ruse on Mr. Caron's part, not to tell people how wonderful wetlands are but how terrible the SLT is. Mr. Caron's past statements about wetlands have been completely false and misguided - but then you wouldn't know that because you apparently believe that Mr. Caron wouldn't lie to you - only I would lie to you. I suggest you keep your blinders on, don't go look at how the project "is progressing" and send Mr. Caron some money for the "student project" - please be generous, he needs the help!!

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

"Did it occur to you that Mr. Caron may be using this project as an ulterior motive."

And this is a post about facts?

pace nailed it--

" You have no honor or principals. . Your words are fraudulent , your actions fraudulent and reprehensible, your motives are base and your sense of responsibility non existent."

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

And Bozo - your rants about unmarked graves are based on facts?

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 4 years ago

Rants?

It's the Native American community that contends that there exist graves of their relatives in those wetlands.

I choose not to disbelieve them.

You choose to call them liars because if they are telling the truth, it would interfere with your desire for pavement.

To quote pace again--

"You have no honor or principals."

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Lack of evidence is also a fact that needs to be considered. You are a fake. The only principals that you support are that everyone that disagrees with you is a racist!

pace 4 years ago

That is your story, You tell people if they are happy with the project they should send donations to

You then suggest people should know you are lying. that you were pretending to fraud to make some point. You are a liar, You used my post thanking the students and Mr. C which was based on information I knew to be accurate. I was careful in what I said. You said that I bought some story. You were lying. It isn't Mr C fault I am calling you a liar, it is yours. You seem to not understand that when you claim that I was not being accurate and that I bought a story, you are lying about the basis of my statements. If you feel all these things, that is your problem, don't think you can spin off my post with a lie and I won't call you a liar.

pace 4 years ago

you are making statements about me that are a lie. Liar. Your say I have no facts, that is a stupid lie. Liar. It is fraud for you to claim that if one wants to donate to this, one should send checks to someone.
You now admit you based that only on you looking up a name in the phone book. That was a fraud to pretend you knew how to direct donations.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Liar,Liar, Liar!!! Are you absolutely NUTS! And what are you basing your "facts" on other than what you read in the paper? Were you there helping? In which case, please enlighten us - how many HINU students were really involved. Instead of just claiming I am a liar and insulting your intelligence - back your statements up with facts. The numbers I gave you of the participants - that was based on my actual observations. Where are your facts. And take a breath or two - you sound like you're going to have heart failure you;re so worked up...over something so trivial. I call it like I see it, sorry you have such a warped sense of perspective. I still "claim" that Mr. C has ulterior motives than actually teaching anyone about the wetlands - on either side of the road. That is just as factual a claim as his that 500 unmarked graves lay in the wetlands.

pace 4 years ago

I am suppose to prove to the liar he is lying. I am saying you are lying. If you want to make an argument do it on some merit other than I was not accurate on what I based my post on. I was specifically careful in my post. You then lied and said I had bought some story. Remember. You stated what was the source of my information. You lied. hence liar. You owe me an apology. Telling me how I checked the information was different than how I actually checked is almost the stupidest lie I have read lately. Do you think I am confused about what I did and said, that you know that better then me. That is more than a lie, it seems stupid and insane. This has nothing to do with Mr. C, it was to do with you using my post and saying a lie about my accuracy.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

I was right - you are nuts! And so you say that you know the facts but are yet unwilling to say how you know those facts. What are you trying to hide? What do you really know about this project that convinces you that you aren't being duped by Mr. C? I know what I said was not a lie as well so unless you have some information to share about how you come to know these facts then it is your problem as to who is actually lying. Good luck with that.

beeshlii 3 years, 11 months ago

thank you that will speed up the process.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Seamus - you seem to be missing the point. I believe in Peak Oil and I believe that we have gone beyond it but would not begin to speculate when as I have not kept up with the experts. I also believe that we need to rely more on mass transit. But I realize that mass transit doesn't work when the population isn't concentrated enough and it isn't in Lawrence. I also know that if you look at history in the past 150 years or so, technology and new innovations have caused sea-changes in the past. It doesn't take much to realize that we are on the cusp of a tremendous number of breakthroughs in energy efficiency and production that will easily replace the ICE but the biggest stumbling block is the continuing low cost of fossil fuels, coal and oil. Gas is creeping back up in price and once it gets to $3.50 or perhaps it will take $4.00/gal and an indication it isn't temporary then a lot will change. Yes, some people will probably "walk away from their cars". But for the most part there will be alternatives that will quickly take their place. But go ahead and rant because we all need to hear the fanatics in order for some of us to listen and make some decisions to change what we are doing.

Mike Ford 4 years ago

Halito, healthcaremoocherclown, I'm not a BIA Indian. I am a descendant of three tribes that were from North Carolina and Mississippi prior to the existence of the US. My European ancestors have been here since the early to mid 1600's. Due to the complete and unapologetic ignorance of many in this populace and on this posting, I am Choctaw/Biloxi/Cherokee and European, not American. Europe can have it's expoitative religiously superstitious backwards unwashed masses back. None of you probably have the ability or desire to relearn the languages of your ancestors. You're just here as the descedants of immigrants expecting others to assimilate to the mess of a culture you brought here. The postings made since I signed off last night simply reinforce the reality of historical legal and cultural ignorance in this country. Oh, by the way, Mike Caron is of Abnaki/Maliseet descent from the Maine/New Hampshire/Vermont area. I learned of this some years ago. I love how people like Idahowinds and Healthcare Moocher swim in the pool of questioning genuine ancestry and motives. Are we all supposed to give in and succumb to the mass of destruction and ignorance that so permeates these conversations to make the progress of destruction easier. NO.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Tuschie, I guess I have to feel sorry for you. How can you function from day to day carrying around such vile hatred for everyone that can't understand how terrible everything has been for "your people" over the past centuries? I didn't question Mr. Caron's motive. I know what his motive is - Stop the SLT at all costs. It has nothing to do with educating people about the wetlands. He doesn't give a flying fish about the wetlands. He is just like you - it is all about how Native Americans have been treated wrongly in the past. This road will not change that and will not impact the Baker Wetlands in the ways that Mr. Caron believes. I wish the two you the best in your futile efforts. There may be things that can be done to make life better for Native Americans living in the present but I don't think crying over what did or didn't happen hundreds of years ago is going to help.

bearded_gnome 4 years ago

ak so they spoke it and saved their fellow soldiers through radio transmissions behind enemy lines. All of this occurred while students at Haskell were banned by federal law from speaking their languages while going through Euro-American culture reprogramming that happened at every federal boarding school prior to 1930. Joseph Oklahombi, Oklahoma Choctaw soldier, overtook a German gun trench and captured 270 German soldiers by himself becoming known as the Choctaw Alvin York. He was awarded numerous medals ...

---Tushie again has a very loose grasp on real history.

I do not believe there was voice communication on radio in 1918, certainly not via portable radios at the "front lines!

this displays how much one can actually trust what the racist Tuschie writes. to verify this, note when the invention of the vacuum tube actually happened [hint: it was after 1918!]

read accounts of WWI, you don't see stories of men speaking into microphones! you don't even see that much of telegraphy!
flags, flares, signal guns, blinking lights, etc. those were the signal media, along with lots and lots and lots of runners.
yes, the code talkers were crucial in WWII. but sadly Tuschie s either just lying, or repeating some kinda extremely hyperembelished urban legeand.

deec 4 years ago

"The name code talkers is strongly associated with bilingual Navajo speakers specially recruited during World War II by the Marines to serve in their standard communications units in the Pacific Theater. Code talking, however, was pioneered by Choctaw Indians serving in the U.S. Army during World War I. These soldiers are referred to as Choctaw Code Talkers." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker "Choctaw Code Talkers were a group of Choctaw Indians from Oklahoma who pioneered the use of Native American languages as military code. Their exploits took place during the waning days of World War I. The government of the Choctaw Nation maintains these men comprised the first code talkers ever to serve in the U.S. military.[1]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choctaw_... "Contrary to popular belief, the first use of a Native American language as a code occurred during World War I (WW I). Most Americans have heard about the Navajo Code Talkers of WW II. However, few people have heard the story of the original Native American code talkers. " http://www.thefreelibrary.com/World+War+I+Choctaw+code+talkers%3A+36th+division+of+the+National+Guard.-a0181312753

ssakcaj 4 years ago

They weren't Code Talkers. They were Choctaws who spoke their language to other Choctaws in the battalion. The men themselves have stated they weren't Code Talkers. They only did it during a single campaign. It has the same significance that it would if 8 men happened to speak Vietnamese and had done the same thing.

Also they weren't doing it over the radio, they were using field telephones.

To me it looks like some present day Choctaw's who weren't secure in the accomplishments of themselves were trying to piggyback on the actions of the Navaho code talkers...

bearded_gnome 4 years ago

important to note that the hysterians and anticapitalists who push "peak oil" also fight diligently against oil exploration! thus, they make their prophesies self-fulfilling! hmmm.


in previous posts, Tuschie has actually admitted that his opposition to the SLT really is just about "stick it to whitey!"

this is racist.

and for a "victim" of racism who knows the horror of racism to then be so dedicated to perpetuating racism against others is just evil.

btw, I belong to a group that also suffers from prejudice and bigotry. but I know it is much healthier that that stops with me! I do not try to then seek revenge or make sweeping negative statements against the "others." that's because from my own experience I know how wrong it is.

Mike Ford 4 years ago

bearded gnome my father is a world war one historian and a guide at the Liberty Memorial World War One Museum in KC. That museum invited representatives of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma and historians recently to speak about the Choctaw Code talkers in World War One. There is a building next to the Choctaw Nation Council House in Tuskahoma, OKlahoma with plaques memorializing all of the Choctaw code talkers from World War One. I see it every Choctaw labor day gathering in September. I even know a Choctaw Nation artist, Carolyn Ayers who painted a picture of her Choctaw ancestor with radio who was one of the code talkers in World War One. He's on the cover of two world war one books on Native American soldiers I own. You should know not to argue with a person who has a 300 book library consisting completely on tribal law, history, and languages. Of course, most of America doesn't read about history unless George Will Bill O Reilly, or Mr. Blackboard crier tells them what to read or who to believe. I feel sorry for you idahowinds naively thinking you can recreate what you're okay with destroying as long as you sell out for the right price. You are incredibly naive because you are trying to do now the very same things that were done hundreds of years ago and like those people you are doomed to repeat those mistakes unless people stand in your way because you refuse to acknowledge that what you're doing is wrong. John Trudell said it best when he said there are those with earth and those who are against earth in Thunderheart. I guess you're against earth and for that you're wrong. Just for fun since you're educated, how many tribes can you name from Idaho? I can name them ALL RIGHT NOW. SO MUCH FOR YOUR EDUCATION.

gl0ck0wn3r 4 years ago

Wow. Three hundred whole books? Why does anyone argue with you about anything when you own three hundred books.

deec 4 years ago

You left out the part of the phrase where it says "...consisting completely on tribal law, history, and languages.". So since you were proven wrong in your denial of Choctaw code-talkers in WWI, I see you've moved on to sarcasm and veiled insults.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

I know none of the tribes from Idaho, nor do I care. How many duck species have been seen at the Baker Wetlands? - "I can name them all right now. so much for your education." Dr. Boyd and his son are the ones restoring the wetlands, not me. You can say they "sold out for the right price" but I would suggest that they could get a lot more if they play their cards right. Its not over yet. But for you to suggest they are naive to believe they can do it is simply wishful thinking on your part. Of your 300 books, apparently none of them have anything to do with ecological history of the Wakarusa Wetlands. You have forgotten that when Baker got the land it was drained, dry and cultivated. Why is it such "precious wetlands" now? Because Boyd and the USFWS restored it to wetlands - the same thing that he is doing now west of Louisiana St. Isn't it ironic that the restored wetlands that will truthfully demonstrate that wetlands restoration works is next to Louisiana, the state that you hold up in such high regard?

Mike Ford 4 years ago

you would think that working for a religious institute like Baker and being involved with the scouts would give someone a sense of morality and social justice. Just like the old days, money speaks louder. Money always spoke to the missionaries on the take from tribes with the approval of the US Government just like having the temporary approval of a gamed system has now. For the record, Nez Perce, Coeur D'Lene, Flathead, Salish, Blackfeet, Kootenai, Pend D'Oreille, and Palouse peoples inhabit Idaho. Fifteen seconds off the top of my head. All of them sent kids to Haskell over the years. Everything is connected, except for those who have no connection. My father who knew both Boyds has stated that Ivan Boyd would disapprove of selling out like this. Go ahead spin it again.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

Oh, but you didn't list the ducks at the Wetlands - proves that we both "might" have our own levels of expertise, both important to ourselves but the other could hardly care less. Let's see - your father's "testimonial" that "Ivan Boyd would disapprove of selling out like this." is what you supposed lawyer types would consider as unsubstantiated, hearsay testimonial, and unsubmitable in court. Has your father forgotten that Dr. Boyd died at the wetlands in 1982, before any of this business about the SLT came up. Therefore, how could your father have an opinion about what the elder Boyd might have thought. He is only parroting what he himself thinks. As has been pointed out in previous tirades of mine - selling out does not necessarily mean that Indians are being disrespected - that is only your and Bozo's take on it. The public record shows that the decision of putting the road on 32nd is justified, in part, because the mitigation will in fact improve the long-term condition of the Wetlands. But you have told us many times that that is none of your concern!

Flap Doodle 4 years ago

Just stopping by to see who's keeping this thread going. The usual suspects, as usual.

kernal 4 years ago

For those of us whose ancestors have been on this continent for two hundred fifthy years or more, we could have black and/or Native American blood in us that is so diluted by the European blood that we are unaware of it. Think of that every time you make a racist remark because you may be demeaning yourself as well.

pace 4 years ago

I apologize to the forum for being tedious in a public argument that really had nothing to do with the topic itself. I sometimes get lost in specific details. I allowed myself to distract from a message to the students that I meant from my heart. I commend the students and Mr. Caron for acting, doing something for the wetlands and for the community. Those paths make the wetland's exciting habitat accessible in a safe and respectful way. We need to learn how valuable wetlands are. Our education should not be only through reading, but observing. We need to encourage science and community work in our young people Not enough people stop and thank young people when they do good. Thanks.

IdahoWinds 4 years ago

I too appreciate HINU students, Mr. Caron, and KU Environs for standing up for what they believe in. No matter the outcome, I hope that it is a positive experience for them. It will add to the many environmental education projects that have been carried out over the years on the Baker Wetlands side by students, faculty, and others from Baker University, Jayhawk Audubon Society and Wakarusa Chapter of the Sierra Club.

Sean Rudisel 4 years ago

Taking the time to read this thread has been one of the greatest wastes of time of my life. However seeing the polarized, unnecessary, unproductive, and completely useless commentary here has made me laugh. Oh the safety and security to post outlandish and defamatory remarks that anonymity provides.;

bearded_gnome 4 years ago

Tuschie, there may have been indian code talkers in WWI, but my argument with you is the "frontline" ref. there were radios you could talk into in WWI, but none so stable or portable you could use on the "frontline" of a battle. aboard ship you might find such a radio. radios then, you must remember (for you obviously don't know this) were very large, cumbersome and required rather particular antenna setups. Tuschie this was not WWII where the vacuum tube allowed for handheld commo.

now, did your "code talkers" instead use morse code? that is a little more believable.

artillery spotter planes and recon planes (there is a difference) of WWI only had either primitive flagging equipment, or morse code transmitters. they didn't even have radio receivers. two-way voice radio commo didn't really get used much in aircraft before 1931.

plus, note the next message Tuschie. it includes actual quotes from personnel who actually were in the Meuse Argonne with the american "lost battalion" and describes their only communications.

finally, I've seen the movie "Lost Battalion." no mention of indians as codetalkers ... believe me I'd notice.

so, please step down from your false moral superiority. read on ...

bearded_gnome 4 years ago

From the night of September 28 until October 1, most of the First and Second Battalions were well ahead of the rest of the advance, dug in to find shelter from the now heavy enemy fire, and suffering from a lack of rations and ammunition.  To make matters worse, their runner lines were cut off by the German infiltration, requiring them to communicate with headquarters by carrier pigeon.  Though the subsequent isolation of October 3-7 would mark them the Lost Battalion and their tenuous position labeled The Pocket, ...

Runner Lines and Carrier Pigeons As in any war, communication was essential to the advances of any unit during World War I.  Before the advent of radio communication, transmissions of tactical information between headquarters units was left to telegraphed messages, or even more rudimentary means.  Military units on the advance, as was the case with the leading battalions of the 308th Infantry, could not reasonably establish telegraph lines back to headquarters, so messages were normally passed through RUNNER LINES. As the infantry commander moved his front lines forward, runner posts were established at intervals to relay messages from the commanders at the front to the headquarters in the rear, much as a track team passes the baton in a relay race.  It was an effective means of two-way communications unless, as happened during the night of September 28, the enemy was able to surround the advance element and break the runner line. Even more rudimentary was the back-up method of communication, sending messages by carrier pigeon.  An advancing unit during World War I often carried some of these small birds, trained to fly back to their coop upon release.  When a message couldn't be sent by runner line, the field commander would write his message, fold it neatly into a small canister attached to the leg of one of his pigeons, and release the bird to fly home. Back at the pigeon's coop an intricate system of wires were rigged to sound a buzzer any time a bird returned home.  The coop-keeper would remove the message from the canister, then pass it on by messenger or telegraph, to the appropriate headquarters. On the morning of September 29 Major Budd and Major Whittlesey sent four such carrier pigeons with messages to headquarters.  One of them summed up the situation: (cont'ed)

bearded_gnome 4 years ago

(cont'ed)
[here is that message passed by carrier pigeon, no indication to which tribe that pigeon belonged ... lol]

"Our line of communication with the rear still cut at 12:30 p.m. by machine guns. We are going to clean out one of these guns now. From a wounded German officer prisoner, we learned that there is a German Company of 70 men operating in our rear, to close up the gap we made yesterday. We can of course clean up this country to the rear, by working our companies over the ground we charged. But we understand our mission is to advance, and to maintain our strength here. It is very slow trying to clean up this rear area from here by small details when this trickling back of machine guns can be used by the enemy. Can a line of communication not be kept open from the rear? We have been unable to send back detail for rations and ammunition, both of which we need very badly."

bearded_gnome 4 years ago

now poor Tuschie's statement is disproven by my above quote. sad. will he admit it?

n World War One. Their superiors knew they spoke a language the Germans couldn't break so they spoke it and saved their fellow soldiers through radio transmissions behind enemy lines. All of this occurred while students at Haskell were banned by federal law from speaking their languages while going through Euro-American culture reprogramming that happened at every federal boarding school prior to 1930. Joseph Oklahombi, Oklahoma Choctaw soldier, overtook a German gun trench and captured 270 German soldiers by himself becoming known as the Choctaw Alvin York. He was awarded numerous medals from the US and French governments in World War One. He was also a code talker. Ironically, if you had anything from an opposing viewpoint that was empirical and not borderline rascist in nature, you probably wouldn't be censored. Since your comments had no factual basis and originated from some antiquated racial superiority point I've heard numerous times before you were censored. Just an observation. George Clooney probably wouldn't be happy that someone with your lack of intellect was using his characters name. You should probably use the handle of Slade Gorton or Jeff Benedict or Richard Blumenthal. Maybe even Antonin Scalia or John Roberts. All of them share a borderline dislike of indigenous peoples. You'd fit right in.

December 2, 2010 at 8:54 p.m.

ssakcaj 4 years ago

The Choctaw's weren't speaking on the radio they were talking on the field phones. I did see a couple of references where it said they received radio messages then translated them to Choctaw and gave them to runners to take out into the field.

So I would agree that Tusc is at the very least guilty of exageration.

Scott Morgan 4 years ago

I rarely see an accident on the K-10 connect with most drive speeds upward of 65 mph. Seemingly everyday i see remnants or actual accident damaged vehicles on 23rd Street.

Yes it's irritating there is no fast way around town, but safety has to be considered too.

Count me as one who loves the drives through the Florida Swamps.

sissezz 4 years ago

still gonna go out and donate my time and money!!!! LMAO!!!

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