Killing daughter can’t be matter of honor / LJWorld.com

Archive for Sunday, November 8, 2009

By Leonard Pitts Jr. - Miami Herald

November 8, 2009

We don’t know why Faleh Hassan Almaleki came to this country in the mid-’90s, and it’s unlikely he’ll be able to tell us anytime soon. He’s in jail in Maricopa County, Ariz., at this writing, in lieu of a $5 million cash bond. It hardly seems farfetched, however, to suppose he emigrated from his native Iraq for the same reason immigrants typically seek these shores: America promises opportunity and freedom.

But one wonders if he truly knew the meaning of the words.

Almaleki is the 48-year-old Glendale, Ariz., man who stands accused of using his Jeep Cherokee to run down his 20-year-old daughter, Noor, and another woman, Amal Edan Khalaf. Khalaf, said to be the mother of Noor’s boyfriend, is expected to survive the Oct. 20 attack in the parking lot of a state government building. Noor was less fortunate. She died last Monday.

About her, we know only a few things: She had a page on Facebook and another on MySpace. She was interested in modeling. And at some point she either went to Iraq and got married — or went there and rejected the suitor her family had arranged for her. Police are still trying to determine which of those stories, both in circulation, is true. Either way, she returned to the States, where she moved in with her boyfriend and his mother.

Something else we know: Almaleki felt his Facebook-using, husband-rejecting daughter had become too “Westernized.” His son, Peter-Ali, told a local TV news station that tensions ran high between father and daughter. Noor, he said, went “out of her way” to disrespect their conservative Muslim father.

And where Almaleki comes from, it is standard practice that the daughter who disrespects or brings shame upon her family is subject to what they call an honor killing. Repeating for emphasis: Almaleki is alleged to have run down two defenseless women as a matter of “honor.”

While you absorb that, let me tell you a few things I believe:

I believe that in most cases, I have no right to judge your culture by the standards of mine.

I believe what seems exotic to me might be enlightened to you.

I believe no culture has a monopoly on morality.

But I also believe you don’t run down your daughter because she has a page on Facebook and won’t marry the guy you choose.

That is not honor. It is, in fact, the opposite — an act of appalling cowardice suggestive not simply of religious extremism but of a people in fear of the sexuality and independence of women. It tells you something about a culture’s lack of faith in its own mores any time it feels compelled to use violence to enforce those mores upon its people. And it tells you something about Almaleki’s “honor” that he bolted like a scared rabbit after allegedly running the women down. It took over a week for authorities to capture him.

The U.N. Population Fund estimates that more than 5,000 women a year die in “honor” killings for such “crimes” as speaking to unrelated men or being raped. Take it as brutal evidence of the way half the human race continues to oppress the other half.

It is disgraceful that such a thing happens anywhere, but it is especially galling that it has happened here. Not just because this is home soil and such things are alien to most of us, but because it suggests, poignantly, that Faleh Hassan Almaleki did not truly understand the vastness of the hope that brings immigrants like him here. If America promised him freedom and opportunity to remake his life as he saw fit, he was apparently too short-sighted and concretized in old ways to see the obvious corollary.

It promised his daughter the same.

Discussion

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8 November 2009
at 6:50 a.m.

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bkgarner (Brent Garner) says…

The problem, Leonard, is not the Iraqi culture but the culture of Islam in general. Frankly, the figure of 5,000 is most likely grossly understated as there is no accurate accounting of “honor killings” from within Muslim controlled countries. Now I will go one step further. After having read nearly 80% of the Qur'an, after having debated various issues with a handful of Muslims, after reading day after day after day the rantings of Muslim clerics both here in the US and abroad I have come to the conclusion that Islam is not so much a religion as it is a system of male dominance and control wrapping itself in the cloak of religion in order to give itself legitimacy. Ok, now I've said it. Let the flaming begin.
8 November 2009
at 6:59 a.m.

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gilly (Anonymous) says…

Almaleki's behavior is just one example of attitudes toward women throughout the world that treat them as less-than-human resources to be controlled and exploited.

Let's not forget why, in part, the United States invaded Afghanistan: it was because of the way the Taliban treated, and continue to treat, women: bombing girls' schools and killing students, throwing acid on the faces of women who do not hide their faces, beating women who walk in public without male relatives as escorts.

A recently published book, Half the Sky, by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, details the treatment of women throughout the world—and their research indicates that the only way to improve the economies of the Third World is to invest in their women: overall, when institutions receive aid, they use it to perpetuate themselves to the exclusion of development; when men receive aid, they spend the money on themselves. When women receive aid, they spend it on expanding their work, paying bills, and raising the family.
8 November 2009
at 7:08 a.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

Brent, based on your post
“Islam is not so much a religion as it is a system of male dominance and control wrapping itself in the cloak of religion in order to give itself legitimacy”
Think you can change the word “Islam” to any other so-called religion and statement is just as true.
8 November 2009
at 7:35 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Burkhas for beobachter!
8 November 2009
at 7:41 a.m.

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Agnostick (Anonymous) says…

beobachter ftw!

“Roman Catholicism?” Yep.

“Mormonism?” You betcha!

Most religions are rooted in “male dominance.” True, Roman Catholics don't kill their adulterous daughters, or chop off their hands. But where, for example, are the female priests?

I would also argue that the same analyses of the Qur`an could be applied to the Bible. The now-famous “letter to Dr. Laura” offers good insight into this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religi…

Most Christians don't kill bulls, or sell their daughters into slavery. A lot of them wear glasses to church and eat shellfish, too. I would bet that there are a lot of Muslims that have also abandoned parts of the Qur`an, because they're simply not practical anymore, or because they've long since been trumped by science.

Ultimately, Almaleki is representative of Islam, the way David Koresh is representative of Christianity.

Agnostick
agnostick@excite.com
8 November 2009
at 10:17 a.m.

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50YearResident (Anonymous) says…

Religious Freedom in the United States does not include “Honor Killings”.
8 November 2009
at 10:22 a.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

50year, no one is saying they are. Religious Freedom means of and from religion.

8 November 2009
at 11:14 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Very telling how Pitts tiptoes through the tulips in this editorial, never once using the “M Word”, choosing instead to misguide the readers into beleiving that he really is discussing an aspect of “culture”.

He is “NOT” referring to any part of “culture” but rather to an aspect of a murderous and brutal religion.

He just won't say it.

Pitts is so politically correct and so “open-minded” that his brains have fallen out.

Pitts is the poster child for disingenuousness.

Muslim issues fatwas of death against cartoonists who depict the child molester Mohammed.

Muslim runs as its terror arm, al Quada, intent on wiping out all non-believers.

Muslim runs Iran, whose president is intent on destroying Israel and has publicly so stated.

Muslim committed the atrocity of 911.

Muslim committs acts of terorism, murder and brutality, worldwide and on a daily basis.

Yes, the texts of Christianity command some of the same sorts of hideous things which does the Q'ran but the difference is that for the most part, Christians don't do those acts.

Muslim is not a state sponsored religion; Muslim “IS” the state.

Pitts can tiptoe through the tulips if he wants.

I won't.
8 November 2009
at 11:28 a.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

Faleh Hassan Almaleki is no more representative of all Muslims then Fred Phelps is of all Christians. All religions and non religious groups have their nut cases.
8 November 2009
at 11:29 a.m.

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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…

“beobachter (Anonymous) says…
Brent, based on your post
“Islam is not so much a religion as it is a system of male dominance and control wrapping itself in the cloak of religion in order to give itself legitimacy”
Think you can change the word “Islam” to any other so-called religion and statement is just as true.”

Not Wicca.
8 November 2009
at 11:48 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

“beobachter (Anonymous) says…

Faleh Hassan Almaleki is no more representative of all Muslims then Fred Phelps is of all Christians. All religions and non religious groups have their nut cases.”

Marion writes:

Why do you use his middle name?
8 November 2009
at 11:59 a.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

I guess this guy is just another Muslim not “representative of all muslims”:

“Muslim husband who killed his wife and children because of their Western ways

By Ian Herbert

Wednesday, 21 February 2007

Mohammed Riaz made every conceivable attempt to prevent his wife and daughters enjoying their Westernised lifestyle. He destroyed their clothes - modest by Western standards but tight fitting by his own - when they came out of the wash and he railed against plans to allow alcohol at his terminally ill son's 18th birthday party - which had been brought forward because of his prognosis.

Increasingly alienated and in despair over the illness of his son, Adam, the labourer killed his wife and four daughters by throwing petrol over them as they slept and igniting it.

At the inquest in Blackburn, Lancashire, yesterday the coroner, Mike Singleton, recorded a verdict that Caneze Riaz, 39, and her four daughters, Sayrah, 16, Sophia, 15, Alicia, 10, and Hannah, three, were unlawfully killed at their terrace home in Accrington, and that Mr Riaz, who died in hospital two days after the fire, took his own life. Adam died six weeks later.”
8 November 2009
at noon

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Sorry, forgot the link:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/…
8 November 2009
at 1:40 p.m.

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SettingTheRecordStraight (Anonymous) says…

“I believe that in most cases, I have no right to judge your culture by the standards of mine.

I believe what seems exotic to me might be enlightened to you.

I believe no culture has a monopoly on morality.”

Translation: Leonard Pitts does not believe in absolute truth or objective morality.
8 November 2009
at 1:50 p.m.

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beobachter (Anonymous) says…

strs, please define this. Who decides this?

8 November 2009
at 2:59 p.m.

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porch_person (Anonymous) says…

Pitting the atrocities of Islam against the atrocities of Christianity is a loser for both sides. We've been just as bad. We have just as many cases of nutcases killing family, because the Bible / God / preacher man / etc said to do it, as they do.

We progressed to the point where we aren't burning people at the stake for knowing how to do celestial math. We can witness Islam do the same. We can help them but I don't think the path to change lies in conducting war upon them. Demonstrating the way to a better life, and having them choose our way of life is a much longer lasting change.

I feel for the women who live in such a backward culture. We have the ability to respect their culture over there by forbidding proselytizing. Almaleki can respect our culture by recognizing that we don't put up with such sh1t here. He took a life, his own daughter's life. I hope he enjoys our corrections system.
8 November 2009
at 3:24 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

“porch_person (Anonymous) says…

…..but I don't think the path to change lies in conducting war upon them”

Marion writes:

OK; fine.

Tell'em to stop waging war on us.

In the meantime, I suggest that all those who do wage war on us be killed straightaway and let Allah sort'em out.
8 November 2009
at 3:32 p.m.

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mom_of_three (Anonymous) says…

No, this man is not representative of all muslims as the Ft. Hood shooter is not representative of all muslims. Crazy americans take the lives of their kids and wives all the time, but not in the name of westernization or religion, but because they were angry at a wife or husband who left them or because they were in debt or whatever.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontli…
had a very good segment about muslims overcoming the predjudice and misconceptions surrounding their religion
8 November 2009
at 4:33 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

By the way, I also beleive that we should get out of both Afghanistan and Iraq, forthwith.

They don't want us there anyway.
8 November 2009
at 4:57 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXnJVk…
8 November 2009
at 5:18 p.m.

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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…

mom_of_three (Anonymous) says…
No, this man is not representative of all muslims as the Ft. Hood shooter is not representative of all muslims. Crazy americans take the lives of their kids and wives all the time, but not in the name of westernization or religion, but because they were angry at a wife or husband who left them or because they were in debt or whatever.

They have killed other people because “god” told them to. But we aren't outlawing “god”. And the guy who killed Tiller was probably doing it in the name of his religion, because there are different opinions in religions when a life truly begins.
8 November 2009
at 6:30 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

From “Revolution Muslim”, a website run by a converted Muslim in the USA:

“Major Nidal Hasan M.D.

An officer and a gentleman was injured while partaking in a preemptive* attack.

Get Well Soon Major Nidal

We Love You

We do NOT denounce this officer's actions,we do however apologize for the following acts committed by our country:

Bay of Tonkin

The East Timor Massacre by USA Supported Suharto

1902 Samar Massacre in the Philippines by the USMC

1,000,000 Dead Iraqis

Afghani & Pakistanis Killed by the USA

Starvation of Africa & Rape of it's Resources by the USA

Support of the Brutal “Israeli” Occupation Entity

Etc. Etc.

Every day is Fort Hood for the world community due to USA policies and & their tyrant totalitarian puppet regimes. Rest assure the slain terrorists at Fort Hood are in the eternal hellfire and it is not to late for YOU to change your policies.

Sharing a Smile with The International Community,

Yousef al-Khattab”

http://www.revolutionmuslim.com/
8 November 2009
at 6:40 p.m.

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pace (Anonymous) says…

What if his daughter was Hitler. If my daughter was Hitler it might be a matter of honor to slay her.

8 November 2009
at 7:34 p.m.

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ivalueamerica (Anonymous) says…

How brave of Mr. Pitts, taking a strong stand against killing one's own children.
8 November 2009
at 8:21 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

“Faleh Hassan Almaleki is no more representative of all Muslims then Fred Phelps is of all Christians. All religions and non religious groups have their nut cases.”

Hoooonk! That's incorrect, but thanks for playing. As Pitts' outlined, this was an act born from religious doctrine. Has nothin' to do with the guy bein' a 'nut case' and everything to do with an extremely backward religious belief. 5k 'honor killings in a year and what? They're all “nut cases”?

Still waiting for bachter to post something meaningful or credible.
8 November 2009
at 8:30 p.m.

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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Pitt's culture treats females the best. That culture of Pitt's makes women feel the greatest about themselves.

Stimulus, evolution and Pitt's culture lives

Darwin bless you all
8 November 2009
at 8:40 p.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“Has nothin' to do with the guy bein' a 'nut case' and everything to do with an extremely backward religious belief.”

Actually, it's both. And “an extremely backward religious belief” is redundant, anyway.
8 November 2009
at 8:46 p.m.

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tomatogrower (Anonymous) says…

BlessedSap (Anonymous) says…
Odinism is not male dominate. I believe women priest were the rule in Nordic/Germanic paganism. Too bad the holy roman empire ended these religions very brutally, at one point chopping of 5,000 Saxons heads (at one time) for practicing pagan religion. I guess those who keep there heads on decide whose is the best god.

Not to mention all the strong women throughout Europe who were burned at the stake for being witches. Basically the Romans started it, then the Roman Catholic Church took over. Remember, the Christian religion isn't a Western religion. It began in the Middle East just like Islam. The culture of the Middle East has been demeaning women for centuries. The only reason Isreal doesn't do it (except for the Orthodox Jews) is because they have gone to other places and been influenced by those cultures. My ancestors are mostly from the British Isles, and they have a history of uppity women.
8 November 2009
at 8:55 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

All religions are only ways of ignorant people trying to explain things they do not understand, some of which are not really understandable anyway.

The side benefit of religion is that religions allow the believers to incorporate into the belief system, the “rightness” of killing off whoever doesn't believe in that particular brand of shamanism.

Really good for territorial expansion and getting rid of bothersome groups.
8 November 2009
at 9:35 p.m.

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Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Lieberman Announces Senate Investigation Into Fort Hood Shooting

The Independent Democrat, who chairs the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, said there were 'strong warning signs' that the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, was an 'Islamist extremist.'

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/…

“Sen. Joe Lieberman announced Sunday that he intends to lead a congressional investigation into the mass shooting at Fort Hood, saying the attack could qualify as a “terrorist act” rooted in Islamic radicalism — the worst since 9/11.

The Independent Democrat, who chairs the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, said there were “strong warning signs” that the alleged gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, was an “Islamist extremist.”

“If that is true, the murder of these 13 people was a terrorist act and, in fact, it was the most destructive terrorist act to be committed on American soil since 9/11,” Lieberman told “Fox News Sunday.”

The Connecticut senator said authorities “don't know enough” yet, but said his panel would investigate the gunman's motives and “ask whether the Army missed warning signs that should have led them to essentially discharge him.”

Lieberman said that if Hasan were showing warning signs, “The U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance. He should have been gone.”

Marion writes:

Allow me to reprint the salient point:

“The U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance. He should have been gone.”
9 November 2009
at 5:54 a.m.

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Made_in_China (Paul R. Getto) says…

“Translation: Leonard Pitts does not believe in absolute truth or objective morality.” === Good point, since there is no such thing. Values, and the sky gods which some followers believe invented a particular set of values, are inventions. Nothing wrong with that, as long as people can follow the most basic principles. All religions have nuts within their ranks. Many of them violate, in the name of their invented 'god,' the values they profess to believe in. It is wrong to condem entire groups for the activities of a few 'believers.'

9 November 2009
at 6:18 a.m.

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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Mr. Paul R. Getto, Your defensive explantion for the tendency of the male dominate treatment of females isolated to “nuts” instead of “culture” is troubling. Maybe the “evolution” instead of your vernaculalr “invention”, of the various levels of male dominance in the various religions, will continue to proceed satisfactorily for females.

Stimulus, evolution and Posercare lives

Darwin bless you
9 November 2009
at 7:01 a.m.

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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

Why look at all those beheading videos posted on the interwebs by Lutherans in the last 10 years!
9 November 2009
at 7:55 a.m.

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vanguard3 (Anonymous) says…

While I've verbally tangled with Phelps' minion out at the Lied Center once or twice, to his credit, he hasn't ever killed anyone, unlike the guy down in Ft. Hood. Funny how we try to blur the lines by trotting out the idiot who calls himself Christian. The guy in Ft Hood was motivated by his religion to kill Americans. Pretty simple.
9 November 2009
at 8:05 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“The guy in Ft Hood was motivated by his religion to kill Americans.”

It's estimated that there are around 6 million Muslims in the US. If it were “pretty simple” that this guy was motivated by his religion, we would be seeing thousands, if not millions, of incidents like this. Such is clearly not the case, so it's really not that simple at all.
9 November 2009
at 8:17 a.m.

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75x55 (Anonymous) says…

Pitts at his feeble best:

“While you absorb that, let me tell you a few things I believe:

I believe that in most cases, I have no right to judge your culture by the standards of mine.

I believe what seems exotic to me might be enlightened to you.

I believe no culture has a monopoly on morality.

But I also believe you don’t run down your daughter because she has a page on Facebook and won’t marry the guy you choose.”

Provides a series of statements clearly showing he recognizes no basis of moral authority - then follows with an authoritative statement regarding the morality of some event.

If you don't have any basis for a moral construct or worldview, Leonard, your statements are nothing more than bloviating on your emotions. Go home and try again.
9 November 2009
at 8:26 a.m.

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MeAndFannieLou (Anonymous) says…

A few years back there was that Susan Whatsername who drove her car into a lake with her two babies in the backseat because her god told her to. The more fundie mormon folks abandon their sons because their god tells them to. And don't forget that Abraham's god told him to kill a son. I think it's generally just bad for society that people hear voices in their heads and think it's god talking.
9 November 2009
at 8:30 a.m.

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puddleglum (Anonymous) says…

david koresh was the man!

this guy knew what a high-cap mag was.
9 November 2009
at 8:37 a.m.

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Fixed_Asset (Anonymous) says…

Well, barry - Mr. Paul R. Getto is correct in his summary of religion as an “invention”. I see no statement in his post that supports male dominance - you are obviously spinning wildly this morn.

Vangaurd - no blurring needed - here's a very clear fact - Scott Roeder, a very anti-choice, Christian fellow - murdered another human being based on his religion. Just who is that idiot who calls himself a Christian?

9 November 2009
at 8:52 a.m.

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Fixed_Asset (Anonymous) says…

Nope
9 November 2009
at 9:06 a.m.

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coolmom (Anonymous) says…

honor killing? thats just the excuse after the fact for a straight up domestic violence murderer. its about control. to westernized? when you brought her here for a better life thus westernized life? i feel bad for the two women but hope dad gets the benefits of westernized prison and a friendly cell mate.
9 November 2009
at 9:54 a.m.

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Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says…

Outlaw Sharia Law.
9 November 2009
at 10:02 a.m.

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Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says…

The cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, led a northern Virginia mosque in 2001 which was attended by Hasan - and by three of the 9/11 hijackers.
Questioned but not arrested after the 9/11 attacks, he is now based in Yemen, from where his online lectures have been inspiring jihadists over the years since.
In a posting on his Web site Monday, Awlaki praised Hasan, calling him “a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people.”

He criticized U.S. Muslim organizations for condemning the shooting attack, calling them hypocrites and - quoting from the Koran - saying “painful punishment” awaited them….
9 November 2009
at 10:03 a.m.

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Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says…

The cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, led a northern Virginia mosque in 2001 which was attended by Hasan - and by three of the 9/11 hijackers.
Questioned but not arrested after the 9/11 attacks, he is now based in Yemen, from where his online lectures have been inspiring jihadists over the years since.
In a posting on his Web site Monday, Awlaki praised Hasan, calling him “a man of conscience who could not bear living the contradiction of being a Muslim and serving in an army that is fighting against his own people.” .

He criticized U.S. Muslim organizations for condemning the shooting attack, calling them hypocrites and - quoting from the Koran - saying “painful punishment” awaited them….Just another nut case I suppose
9 November 2009
at 10:09 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“You don’t see the difference between what Roeder did and say killing your daughter because she wears makeup?”

Of course it's different. Equally sick, but different.
9 November 2009
at 10:15 a.m.

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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Fixed Asset, Since you are speaking for Mr. Ghetto. The use of the progressive term “invention” to describe the evolutionary process of religions seems to counter the idea that old timey velociraptors are now some sort of modern day bird today. Or is that evolutionary process an “invention” for you too?

Stimulus, evolution and Posercare lives

Darwin bless you
9 November 2009
at 11:25 a.m.

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kmat (Anonymous) says…

gilly (Anonymous) says…

Let's not forget why, in part, the United States invaded Afghanistan: it was because of the way the Taliban treated, and continue to treat, women: bombing girls' schools and killing students, throwing acid on the faces of women who do not hide their faces, beating women who walk in public without male relatives as escorts.

_______

We by no means went into Afghanistan to save the women from the Taliban. Where did you come up with that? Once we were there, we tried nation building, like we tried in Iraq. And as usual, our attempts at nation bldg aren't successful.

If the US cared about protecting women's rights around the world, there are a lot of countries we need to invade.

We invaded Afghanistan for gas and oil pipelines. Read up on the Unocal pipeline. It was in the works since 1998 and 9-11 gave a reason to invade Afghanistan and take control.

“The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines…
The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our
support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the
project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any
governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,
Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do
support the project.”
[ U.S. House of Reps., “U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics”, 12 Feb 1998 ]

“The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,
Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges.”

[ “U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics”, 12 Feb 1998 ]

“CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized
Afghanistan Government is in place.”
[ “U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics”, 12 Feb 1998 ]

9 November 2009
at 11:53 a.m.

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tbaker (Anonymous) says…

This story is one of those great examples of why multiculturalism is so bad for the country. People need to assimilate into our society and adopt American culture when they come here. Celebrating one's heritage is fine, but living it isn't. Multiculturalism is the exact opposite of what our founders built our country on. “E Pluribus Unum” (out of many, one) used to mean a lot more than it does today.

America has always been the “melting pot” where people from scores of diverse cultures came and all mixed together and became transformed into one culture. When we let people like this guy come to the melting pot - and not melt - we get tragedies like this. Think of this the next time you hear “press one for English.”
9 November 2009
at 12:23 p.m.

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vanguard3 (Anonymous) says…

I was talking about Fred Phelps. Roeder, I don´t agree with what that guy did either, nor Tiller. I think that there is a time when killing is necessary, and that one must be prepared for that time. However, in the womb, nope, don´t agree with that. Nor do I believe in ambushes of the unsuspecting.

If “pro-choice” meant only voluntary sterilization and not abortion, I´d back it in a heartbeat. I mean, if having a kid is going to upset your life so much that killing it in the womb seems like a good idea, why not cut down on the number of visits to the doctor and do a little one-stop shopping? Having fewer people on Earth would be good for the planet.
9 November 2009
at 12:39 p.m.

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porch_person (Anonymous) says…

barrypenders,

The stimulus began under Bush, evolution is fact and we're going to fix health care. It's an indication of how sharp your mind is that you don't know that.

Don't be alarmed. Tom and other brain-dead conservatives are around to “group hug”, in case you get scared of all this change. Evolution got accepted decades ago. People figured out that Jonah probably didn't get swallowed by a whale and Revelation was written by a person “under distress” along time ago.

(laughter)
9 November 2009
at 1 p.m.

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kmat (Anonymous) says…

tbaker (Anonymous) says…

This story is one of those great examples of why multiculturalism is so bad for the country. People need to assimilate into our society and adopt American culture when they come here. Celebrating one's heritage is fine, but living it isn't. Multiculturalism is the exact opposite of what our founders built our country on. “E Pluribus Unum” (out of many, one) used to mean a lot more than it does today.

America has always been the “melting pot” where people from scores of diverse cultures came and all mixed together and became transformed into one culture. When we let people like this guy come to the melting pot - and not melt - we get tragedies like this. Think of this the next time you hear “press one for English.”
____________________

Sounds like you are just bigoted.

E Pluribus Unum was meant by the founding fathers that out of many colonies or states emerges a single nation. Have you ever looked at the original seal? The center section of their shield has six symbols for “the Countries from which these States have been peopled:” the rose (England), thistle (Scotland), harp (Ireland), fleur-de-lis (France), lion (Holland), and an imperial two-headed eagle (Germany).

Linked together around the shield are 13 smaller shields, each with the initials for one of the “thirteen independent States of America.”

http://www.greatseal.com/mottoes/unum…
9 November 2009
at 8:27 p.m.

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tbaker (Anonymous) says…

Kmat - thanks for the one-sided history lesson. So I'm a bigot for expecting immigrants who come to the country to assimilate into American culture? I guess that means you believe our culture should change and adapt to (fill in the blank) immigrant? Would that include making provisions for honor killings? Besides the fabric of our country, who do you think is harmed when immigrants don't assimilate? You read the story - right?

The immigrants are of course! How can it be better for a person to have less in common with the culture he has to live in, than the one he came from? How can perpetuating this alien condition be good for a country? Remember the Muslim immigrants who rioted in France a couple years ago? There they are forced into ethic and religious enclaves, separate from main-stream French culture, cut-off from most of the opportunities available to the natural born French. Hows that working out?

“The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin … would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities.”

—Theodore Roosevelt, Autobiography, 1913
10 November 2009
at 6:33 a.m.

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AnnaUndercover (Anonymous) says…

@kmat
::laughs::
10 November 2009
at 7:26 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“People need to assimilate into our society and adopt American culture when they come here.”

What does that even mean, tbaker? Which culture are you talking about? Country-Club culture? Hip-Hop culture? Native-American Culture? NASCAR culture? Military Culture? Hippy Culture?
10 November 2009
at 7:28 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

And Spanish has been a widely spoken language in the SW US for well over 400 years.

10 November 2009
at 9:41 a.m.

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tbaker (Anonymous) says…

So Bozo - you don't understand what “assimilate into our society and adopt American culture” means? I feel sorry for you. Such ignorance perpetuates the failed idea called multiculturalism. Promoting conditions that separate immigrants into their native groups separate from main-stream, English-speaking American society is cruel and discriminatory. This is what Europe does. We shouldn't repeat their mistake.
10 November 2009
at 10:52 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

“Such ignorance perpetuates the failed idea called multiculturalism.”

Ignorance? Even among good ole english-speaking Americans, there is a good deal of “multiculturalism,” as I outlined in my previous post.

“Promoting conditions that separate immigrants into their native groups separate from main-stream, English-speaking American society is cruel and discriminatory.”

English is the de facto national and even world language. There isn't a single major ethnic group in this country in which, by the second generation, the majority aren't at least competent if not native speakers of English, your fear mongering notwithstanding.
10 November 2009
at 11:35 a.m.

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tbaker (Anonymous) says…

Watch Bozo spin…