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Archive for Friday, November 6, 2009

Mass shooting worst ever at U.S. military base; 12 killed

November 6, 2009

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Former servicewoman, current 6News meteorologist speaks about Fort Hood incident

6News meteorologist and former servicewoman Ashley Meenen speaks about her apprehension after hearing about a mass shooting incident Thursday at Texas' Fort Hood. Enlarge video

A swat team enters the main gate Thursday at Fort Hood, Texas. A soldier opened fire at a U.S. Army base in Fort Hood, unleashing a stream of gunfire that left 12 people dead and 31 wounded. The incident appears to be the worst mass shooting at a U.S. military base. Officials have not ruled out the possibility that some casualties may have been victims of “friendly fire,” shot by authorities amid the mayhem and confusion at the scene, said a senior U.S. official.

A swat team enters the main gate Thursday at Fort Hood, Texas. A soldier opened fire at a U.S. Army base in Fort Hood, unleashing a stream of gunfire that left 12 people dead and 31 wounded. The incident appears to be the worst mass shooting at a U.S. military base. Officials have not ruled out the possibility that some casualties may have been victims of “friendly fire,” shot by authorities amid the mayhem and confusion at the scene, said a senior U.S. official.

— An Army psychiatrist set to be shipped overseas opened fire at the Fort Hood Army post Thursday, authorities said, in a rampage that killed 12 people and left 31 wounded in the worst mass shooting ever at a military base in the United States.

The gunman, first said to have been killed, was wounded but alive in a hospital under military guard, said Lt. Gen. Bob Cone at Fort Hood. He was shot four times, and was on a ventilator and unconscious, according to military officials. “I would say his death is not imminent,” Cone said.

The man was identified as Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, a 39-year-old from Virginia.

President Barack Obama called the shooting at the Soldier Readiness Center, where soldiers who are about to be deployed or who are returning undergo medical screening, “a horrific outburst of violence.”

“It’s difficult enough when we lose these brave Americans in battles overseas,” the commander in chief said. “It is horrifying that they should come under fire at an Army base on American soil.”

Soldiers rushed to treat their injured colleagues by ripping their uniforms into makeshift bandages. Officials have not ruled out the possibility that some casualties may have been victims of “friendly fire,” shot by authorities amid the mayhem and confusion at the scene, said a senior U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss matters that were under investigation.

Hasan had transferred to Fort Hood in July from Walter Reed Medical Center, where he received a poor performance evaluation, according to an official who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the case publicly.

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, said generals at Fort Hood told her that Hasan was about to deploy overseas. Retired Col. Terry Lee, who said he had worked with Hasan, told Fox News he was being sent to Afghanistan.

Lee said Hasan had hoped Obama would pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq and got into frequent arguments with others in the military who supported the wars.

Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md., said he spoke often with Hasan about how Hasan wanted to find a wife. Hasan was a lifelong Muslim and attended prayers regularly, often in his Army uniform, Khan said.

The shooter used two pistols, one of them semiautomatic. Neither were military-issued, Col. Ben Danner said.

Video from the scene showed police patrolling the area with handguns and rifles, ducking behind buildings for cover. Sirens could be heard wailing while a woman’s voice on a public-address system urged people to take cover.

“I was confused and just shocked,” said Spc. Jerry Richard, 27, who works at the center but was not on duty during the shooting. “Overseas you are ready for it. But here you can’t even defend yourself.”

Soldiers at Fort Hood don’t carry weapons unless they are doing training exercises.

Cone said initially three people were held, and all have been interviewed. Authorities believe, however, that there was a single shooter. In Washington, the senior U.S. official said authorities at Fort Hood initially thought one of the slain victims was the shooter, a mistake that resulted in a delay of several hours in identifying Hasan as the suspect.

The Soldier Readiness Center holds hundreds of people and is one of the most populated parts of the base, said Steve Moore, a spokesman for III Corps at Fort Hood.

Covering 339 square miles, Fort Hood is the largest active duty armored post in the United States. Home to about 52,000 troops as of earlier this year, it is halfway between Austin and Waco.

Comments

bondmen 5 years, 1 month ago

They say madmen become psychiatrists to figure themselves out. Well sometimes they don't and instead become the inmates in charge of the asylum, and certainly this appears to be the case with Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan.

Yet the genesis of his insanity becoming reality seems to be Barack Hussein Obama's failure to keep his promise to pull US troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. And in the back of Hasan's mind there is his holy Koran which tells true believers to kill the infidel (which is most of US). Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan is apparently a well schooled true believer.

Sadly there were signs of his approaching crackup. Words he spoke in anger and disgust and comments made on social internet sites. When will America wake up to the very real threat from the enemy within its own military ranks? How many more such incidents will it take?

ksdivakat 5 years, 1 month ago

Today, I pray for peace and comfort for those families who are affected by this horrific event, politics has no place here, they will be in my thoughts and prayers today.

BigPrune 5 years, 1 month ago

Hasan Akbar kills US comrades in grenade and rifle attack http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154220,00.html

John Allen Muhammad kills 10 in sniper attacks http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/141670?cfb3=3

...and now this incident.

M. Lindeman 5 years, 1 month ago

The what information that is coming out. All I can conclude is there are more than person that dropped the ball on this guy. This person should have never risen to the rank that he had. So lets get this guy fixed up so we can execute this trator. I vote for a firing squad on this one.

geekin_topekan 5 years, 1 month ago

Apparently a colleague said that he wanted out of the military for years because he was constantly taunted for being Muslim. Most likely by comments similar to the ones on this thread.

Wannabe conservatives are determined to create a holy war and a divided America.Perhaps they are the true traitors.

geekin_topekan 5 years, 1 month ago

No help needed here but I appreciate your concern.

Your emphasis on Muslim illustrates my point to a T. I thought the founding fathers came here to escape religious persecution. Or was I taught wrong in school?

This is a tragedy. An American tragedy, not Muslim not Cristian. Wannabe conservatives insistence on pushing their anti Muslim agenda is as un-American as you can find.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

His job was counseling combat vets, and according to relatives, the horror he heard daily weighed on him heavily. He was said to be terrified about being deployed in a combat zone. And has already been mentioned, he said he received regular harassment because he is Muslim. He had been asking to be allowed to leave the military for some time, but had been denied.

Obviously, none of that excuses his going on a murderous rampage, but the military really needs to address the above situations.

JohnBrown 5 years, 1 month ago

Big prune and Bondmen wrap themselves in our flag all the time. "Freedom!" they shout. Now they want to profile all Arab-Americans and make them all de facto suspects until proven innocent. How un-American.

It is a fact that living free (all of us) poses risks. These come with the territory. A free country is strong enough to withstand these incidents by a few. No need to adopt the tactics of the Nazis or North Korea here.

Big prune and Bondmen, now is the time to stand up for what America is all about, not cower in the corner trying to hide from all the risks freedom poses.

geekin_topekan 5 years, 1 month ago

Extremists are to Islam as the KKK is to Christians.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

Unsavory-- at this point, there is absolutely no indication that this guy was ever a "jihadist." There is a good deal of evidence of a guy pushed over the edge by 1) the bigotry and harassment of his co-workers, and 2) the extreme stress of his job.

But that doesn't fit into your neat and tidy, black and white world, does it?

tyson travis 5 years, 1 month ago

Something needs to be said here, one of our FEMALE civilian security guards responded to the scene out of a local traffic control assignment, went in without backup [as she had rehearsed] and faced down the perp one-on-one, putting at least two rounds into him to immobilize him, while being wounded herself in the process. How does this square with the islamist view of passive, veiled, stay-at-home women? I think she's a real hero [or heroine] and belongs up there in the gallery with Capt. Sullenberger.

coolmom 5 years, 1 month ago

i might have more concern for the man who obviously had big issues if he had not killed 12 people and wounded 31 others. now my concern is for them and their families.

Satirical 5 years, 1 month ago

Simply because this man happened to be a Muslim doesn't mean his actions were motivated by religious zealotry. Do not stereotype an entire religion or group based on the acts of a few. In fact, it appears from reports this guy was just paranoid about being deployed. So this was personal, not political. Every Muslim American I have met is a patriotic and good person.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

coolmom--

The problem is that the need for any concern for anybody might have been avoided altogether, and the military needs to review its policies and practices to reflect that reality.

Demonizing the perp (and his religion) is not going to prevent future, similar situations.

Godot 5 years, 1 month ago

George Bush's first public comments after the Islamic attack on 9/11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMiqEU...

Obama's first public comments after the Islamic attack on 11/5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwK1_7... Obama is a disgrace

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

Yes, this muslim man was a zealot. He gave a speech at a doctors round table discussion on the Koran, not medical related, about how non-believers should have their heads removed and oil poured down their throats. (This from NPR on the morning drive) It led others to "meet in the hallway about his speech." Yes, he gave months of hate speech on the internet, Yes, many signs were missed about his so called issues. Much like Columbine and Va. Tech. So, sooner people pull their head out of the sand the better.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 1 month ago

I hadn't heard the reports in the last few posts. But if they are true, why was this guy still running around loose? Just because someone is a religious nut doesn't make them any less nuts.

ksdivakat 5 years, 1 month ago

I am absolutely floored as to all the hate that is being spewed on here today, Jesus Christ! The left is accusing the right and the right is accusing the left, who cares what his political beliefs were, who cares who was in office, who cares that the poor gunman is wounded? You are all missing the point! There are 30 soliders wounded and 12 dead because of this man, have some descency about yourselves and say something nice to those families who may be reading this today...

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

“There are reports, unconfirmed, that he was saying, 'Allahu Akbar,” ' Cone replied…….”

Which could, of course, just as easily be him screaming incoherent words, which then in the minds of panicked individuals retrospectively (and potentially with leading questions) became allahu akbar. Kind of like that doll that supposedly said "islam is the light" a couple of years back.

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

question of the day: Why serve for years in the military if you are terrified of going over sea's and into combat? I have respect for soldiers. When some young fellow says he wants to join up so his college will be paid for, I like to ask, "that's great. Are you willing to go to war and fight and die?" A soldier really should be smart enough to realize that is really what they might be signing up for.

Geekin_Topekan says in the fifth post on this story: Apparently a colleague said that he wanted out of the military for years because he was constantly taunted for being Muslim. Most likely by comments similar to the ones on this thread.

But that is bull! No one had slandered the religion in any way prior to this accusation, only acknowledged a frightening fact of the case. Something that should at least make people think. Someone makes a conection to other outbursts by muslim's within the US and that's hate speech I suppose huh? We can't acknowledge the truth in this country. Not all Muslims are anti-American nut jobs. But plenty are. Because it is taught and fostered within many Mosque's. Unfortunately. It's taboo to acknowledge that this religious warfare is alive and well on the home front. Fear of facing the truth because we are to PC and non-judgemental to face the facts is a dangerous practice. I guarantee in Australia they wouldn't be denyibng the motivation here. If it is too frightening to face facts, just sweep it under the rug and pretend it isn't so. Time after time, after time, after time.......

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 1 month ago

geekin_topekan You are spot on in your comments. I would ask why some have this need to taunt others and call them names.

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

Um, yeah Jonas. I'm sure the majority of those young people on that base know what Allahu Akbar means. So they just subconsciously jumped to that conclussion right?

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

It is safe to say he voted for Obama.

And you've came to this conclusion how, exactly? Using your Mad Internets Telepathy skillz? Or maybe you stalked the guy and committed voter fraud? And not to treat such worthless flamebait even remotely seriously, but the military did vote pretty heavily for the war veteran in the last election.

So yeah, bad trolls are bad.

montevideo 5 years, 1 month ago

It should be understood that to assume a follower of Islam who engages in violence is a jihadist is every bit as absurd as to assume that every follower of Christianity who attacks others is a crusader. The calculus makes no sense, and is rooted in a bigotry that everyone from George W. Bush to Pope Benedict XVI has condemned. -John Nichols

Council on American-Islamic Relations: "We condemn this cowardly attack in the strongest terms possible and ask that the perpetrators be punished to the full extent of the law. No religious or political ideology could ever justify or excuse such wanton and indiscriminate violence. The attack was particularly heinous in that it targeted the all-volunteer army that protects our nation. American Muslims stand with our fellow citizens in offering both prayers for the victims and sincere condolences to the families of those killed or injured.”

Muslim Public Affairs Council: "Our entire organization extends its heartfelt condolences to the families of those killed as well as to those wounded and their loved ones," said Salam Al-Marayati, Executive Director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council. We stand in solidarity with law enforcement and the US military to maintain the safety and security of all Americans."

Stop spreading hatred.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

BlessedSap, you are full of BS. The truth is that none of these lone crazy shooters mean anything to anyone. Did Columbine mean anything? Did the OKC bombing or the Charles Whitman massacre or the VA tech shootings mean anything?

It's just a little misery and pain in a painful world and trying to turn this into politics just shows how shallow and stupid and obsessed with politics you are. These are real people, not chips in your little Red State/Blue State board game.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

" It's taboo to acknowledge that this religious warfare is alive and well on the home front. Fear of facing the truth because we are to PC and non-judgemental to face the facts is a dangerous practice."

It is called the stealth Jihad.

scott3460 5 years, 1 month ago

Perhaps instead of rooting out gays and lesbians, the military should focus their efforts on rooting out the crazed and insane. In my experience with the military, that would be a far easier task.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

Fear of facing the truth because we are to PC and non-judgemental to face the facts is a dangerous practice.

And what exactly is "the truth"? That more Christian Americans have killed innocent people for no particular reason than any other group? That, no matter what particular flavor of crazy, desperate, unbalanced people with guns are a bad thing?

I'm gonna ask you a simple question, should we base our decisions about how to live and act in this country on the actions of a few crazy people, or on what is best for the rest of the people in this country? Because from what I can tell, the only thing you are advocating is Unabomber driven politics.

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

The fact is if he said Allah anything it suggest religios motivation. Unless, of course, he said Ah la peanut buttersandwiches.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

@militant:

Extreme political and religious views are the most, "empowering" but only because the wingnuts who would do this sort of thing are sick and weak inside and they think that those politics will make them feel better. And when it doesn't happen they just go nuts and shoot people.

Obama has been an advocate for thoughtful deliberation and moderate politics from day one, so how is this nutter's actions his "fault"?

jimmyjms 5 years, 1 month ago

Seems like this is a fairly convincing argument against the idea that concealed carry offers greater security, no?

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

@unsavoryagent:

I'm not defending any religious ideology. I'm simply pointing out the obvious fact that one nut doesn't make a tree, and anyone who tries to say otherwise needs to be hit upside the head with a clue-by-four.

We don't know whether the guy was really sane or not, we don't know why he thinks he did what he did. And even if we did know, it's not going to change the way we should choose to live as Americans (in favor of religious tolerance). This isn't an act of religious war, it's the act of a coward or a crazy person. And that's the truth.

scott3460 5 years, 1 month ago

"I blame Obama."

I blame bush. An unnecessary war, toture, lawless extraditions and thousands of dead civilians will tend to anger those you inflict misery upon. The proper response to 9/11 was to pursue Osama bin Laden and those who attacked our country with ruthless precision until all involved had been eliminated. Half hearted efforts to chase them around Afghanistan, allow them refuge in Pakistan, and then divert all efforts for several years to a needless war in Iraq was a serious lapse in our national strategy. What would be the level of enboldenment of these Islamic terrorists had bush successfully prosecuted an effort against those responsible for 9/11?

That Obama is now engaged in rooting those responsible for 9/11 out of their Pakistan hiding places is, in my mind, a good thing. It is not something that will go without a response from the terrorists, however. If, as many here today are supposing, this guy was an Islamic terrorist, then he is likely lashing out in anger because his cause is being hurt by US efforts. Yesterday may have been a bad battle for us in that long effort, but seems indicative, to me, of desperation.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

@unsavoryagent:

This is a military training facility. The soldiers there are not allowed to carry around guns unless they are training with them. I'm sure they have a good reason for this. More than that, the shooter probably knew this when he planned this.

If the MPs had been there, the body count would also have been the same as in your hypothetical situation, so I don't see what you are saying that's relevant. Except maybe that guns make you personally feel safer for whatever reason.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

True. I'm saying he's not nuts, so your argument is worthless.

No, what you are saying is that you do not believe he his nuts (but you have no way of knowing). And your argument from personal incredulity is equally worthless. You are not his psychiatrist and you probably didn't know him personally.

And way to ignore my second point, which is that we shouldn't allow extremists (sane or not) to decide how we as Americans should choose to live. You can talk about the 2nd amendment, but the 1st Amendment (guaranteeing freedom of religion) is even more important.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

Do you think maybe people who are reaching for religion as the only motivation, or even the primary one, when there are millions of adherents of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and other religions in this country who don't go around shooting people are the real "idiots" ChiHawk.

And since you didn't offer any data to back up your (ridiculous) claim, I'd say you've already run out of good ideas to post on this topic.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"Um, yeah Jonas. I'm sure the majority of those young people on that base know what Allahu Akbar means. So they just subconsciously jumped to that conclussion right?"

Over gunfire and screams, possibly. It seems quite likely, from the articles, that they all knew this guy, knew he was a muslim, knew he had been having misgivings, etc. He had been the reported subject of prejudice already.

It's been shown quite often that eye-witness testimony is unreliable and subject to change under persuasion. As of now, the killer is still alive, so I personally am simply going to wait for more information before I leap into certainty of opinion on what his motivations had to be.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

unsavoryagent (Anonymous) says…

“I blame bush.”

Bwhahahahaha! That didn't take long!

Much more time that "I blame Obama" iirc.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

@BlessedSap:

Oh yeah, it'll all come out in time, just like the WMDs in Iraq, huh? Or maybe that was a massive coverup as well. The problem is that, for every lone Islamist shooter, you have at least 5-7 Christianist shooters. And you have millions of people who are in those two religions and don't do stuff like that. It kind of makes your "religion as motivation" idea look weak.

But hey, maybe they should only allow Buddists to buy guns in this country. I haven't heard of any attacks by them, to date.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"The fact is Muslims are in the minority but they still seem to carry out a large portion of terrorist acts. When the ratios are broken down it is no contest as to which religion/group of people are the nutcases."

I must have missed the part where you broke down the ratios. Can you point that post out to me? The last two that I remember were this and a white man killing a doctor in church.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

@unsavoryagent:

None of the stuff you linked to looked like a psych evaluation to me. And none of it was recent enough to show what his state of mind was right before the shootings.

When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail, and so far you've demonstrated more about your own personal viewpoints in your postings than anything about Ft. Hood.

And again, way to ignore my point about how we as a country should not let the actions extremists (sane or not) decide how we should live. Maybe it's because you don't have an answer for that one.

MyName 5 years, 1 month ago

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

What am I missing here? I'm saying that the idea that people should be free to practice their religion is more important than the actions of one person. I'm saying that one lone gunman (Christian, Muslim, atheist or whatever) should not be held up as an indictment of this principal.

And Fred Phelps is more of a religious exploiter than a violent extremist. He may believe that gay people are evil, but he also has things set up so that he personally benefits an awful lot financially from Westboro Baptist church. So apples and oranges in my mind.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"So the actions of Tim McVeigh should not effect how we treat anti-government Christian Extremists with guns and Fertilizer purchases?"

Because that's so much less specific than "muslims." Oh wait, no, it's quite a bit more specific.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 1 month ago

One thing is clear from this incident: keep religious fundamentalists out of the military.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 1 month ago

unsavoryagent,

Yes, whether they be muslim, christian, davidian, morman, or otherwise.

somedude20 5 years, 1 month ago

ChiHawkInKS (Anonymous) says… "I don't care what people say. Just look at the track record of Muslim people carrying out terrorist attacks on U.S. citizens. Liberals will spew a bunch of b.s. garbage about how he wasn't hugged as a child. Take your blinders off! Do you people see what is happening to our country? Islam is a religion of hate. Look at Islamic countries all over the world. Would any of you want to live in one of those god forsaken hell holes? People refuse to connect the dots when the evidence is right there in front of you"

Just like the good hearted Christians who murder doctors, who protest the funerals of fallen American Soldiers, who blow up buildings? Maybe they learned to be terrorists by watching Christians spread their love. Oh, and I have been to the Middle East and at times, it looks a lot like suburbs of Detroit but with more sand.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

I almost cried this morning hearing the weepy voice, of a mother to be and wife of a soldier at Fort Hood, as she expressed her greatest fears. Myname states "... how we as a country should not let the actions of extremists (sane or not) decide how we should live." Then I will ask you how as a country at war should we be living? War changes everything and not always for the best. Mostly, freedoms are buried by the plowing of a nationalist idea. Should we be ignorant of sane or insane actions of others because it is right to be anti-social? No, we have laws to gaurd society from actions that are destructive. Your question is valid. How should we live? The United States has changed since 9-11 that is a truth. The United States is at war that is a truth. With whom are we at war with is a valid question. We as a nation are told we are at war with terrorist. That is a broad brush to paint an enemy. Therefore, all terrorist no matter what cloth worn are the enemy. Remember all terrorist and the countries that help them are now the enemy. How do we, as a nation involved in a world wide war, respond to the enemy, and what security measures do we take here at hame, is now perhaps the deeper questions.

Kat Christian 5 years, 1 month ago

I think he was a mole - planted here to eventually cause havoc and he did. What if he hadn't been stopped how many other of our American solders would he have killed. He may have been born in this country, but he is not a Christian American and this is the heart of this country not Mulims. We share our soil with them, but we don't have to be them as they don't have to be us, but they do need to respect and show loyality to our country, if not then they can go back to where they came from, but I bet your bottom dollar they won't enjoy they same freedom they enjoy in the US of A.

scott3460 5 years, 1 month ago

Wally:

Deep thought is not the hallmark of these forums. But you raise relevant and thoughtful questions. Not sure the answers, but suspect we have gotten it mostly wrong, so far.

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

"I blame bush. An unnecessary war, toture, ..."

Sweet HeyZeus. Some nut shoots up a base, and you're gonna pin it on Bush? You'd been doing better, scott, but recently have regressed back to nutball status. And if you honestly believe that under Bush, efforts to find Bin Laden were "half-hearted", but NOW we're "really" searching for him correctly.....then you need to get a room. A rubber room, that is.

scott3460 5 years, 1 month ago

"We've got God on our side We're just trying to survive What if what you do to survive Kills the things you love Fear's a powerful thing It'll turn your heart black you can trust It'll take your God filled soul Fill it with devils and dust."

scott3460 5 years, 1 month ago

Jaywalker:

A prior poster blamed it on Obama. I simply offered a contrasting and more valid point of view. Check out the sequence of event, you'll see.

staff04 5 years, 1 month ago

Maybe we should purge all the non-Christians from the conservative-Christian army...hell, while we're at it let's implement religious tests for any position in government, gun-ownership, drivers' licenses, business licenses, credit card applications...hell, you name it, let's keep all the non-believing heathens out of any position of power!

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

Just an FYI for folks like myself who were unfamiliar with the term SSRI: selective-serotonin reuptake inhibitor: an antidepressant drug that acts by blocking the reuptake of serotonin so that more serotonin is available

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

I have always thought that war was not a extension fo diplomacy bu a failure of diplomacy. However, history has shown the truth of mans failure to prevent war. So I think the question is why war? Hell, the British had a war with Spain called the "war of Jenkins ear". The two countries clashed over the act of some Lt.'s ear that got cut off during a drunken brawl between english and spanish sailors. However....

As just explained to me by a concerned Muslim...there are those whom interpet the Koran differently. Yes, it is honorable to kill soldiers in war. However, Hussian, betrayed the teachings of the Koran by the way and the nature in which he killed those unarmed soldiers.

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

Do you think maybe people who are reaching for religion as the only motivation, or even the primary one, when there are millions of adherents of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and other religions in this country who don't go around shooting people are the real “idiots” ChiHawk.

Duuuude - He cried out the name of his God in some way or another. This would suggest some religious motivation, real or imagined, sane or insane. It is stupid to argue that his religious views of the world did not influence his actions when he carried it out and called out the name of God. DENIAL. I think anyone who would insist otherwise is willfully blind to the facts and the potential threat. And religious battles continue to be waged around the world as they have through history. And plain and simple Islam is not a peaceful religion.

geekin_topekan 5 years, 1 month ago

CHi,how many Muslims do you know personally? Go to the next open house at the Islamic center here in town.

jaywalker 5 years, 1 month ago

"A prior poster blamed it on Obama. I simply offered a contrasting and more valid point of view."

Sorry, scott, but someone offering a moronic opinion doesn't legitimize your post. And there's no way.........NO WAY....your pov is "more valid"! Blaming a president, any president. for the acts of a madman has no validity whatsoever. I don't care if the person you were responding to blamed it on Obama just 'cuz he's black'; your rationale would still hold no validity.

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

When leftist defend Islam it makes we wonder. Islam/Arabs are a conservative bunch, so conservative they make Huckabee look like Sean Penn. So why are Muslims not met with the usual venom directed at American conservatives? Is it because conservative beliefs held by brown people are seen as interesting or cultural? Is a self hating kind of racism? What ever it is these liberal folks are hypocritical and blind. Wooooooohoooooooo. Right on Blessed Sap. I don't get the liberal love affair! If a well know sect of the Christian or Jewish Faiths were as conservative (and also hateful, violent, and oppressive) as the Islamic fundamentalist are they would be hated, mocked, tarred and feathered. All I can think is that the liberals think the Tunics & Burka's are cute. reminds them of a peace lovin' Rainbow gathering. Beating your wife and daughters is cool too, as long as it is done in the name of Allah. Even running over your daughter with a car is A-OK because after all she is your property. You can do with her as you please. Until a man purchases her, then of course she becomes his property. Fair is fair. Why when everything else is unfair oppression does this group get a free pass???

somedude20 5 years, 1 month ago

ChiHawkInKS (Anonymous) says… "Well DUDE, I assume you are not female because you would have little to no rights if you were living in a Middle Eastern country. Are you gay? Well, that wouldn't fly either. Oh, and if you are Jewish you would probably want to wear your yamaka when out in public Give me a break."

First, read what I wrote. I said I had been there, not lived. I was there while in the USMC. What is with the gay Jewish stuff, you looking for a mate? Sorry kid, I am not. As for not being female, you got one right as the name is someDUDE.

denak 5 years, 1 month ago

I wonder if Major Hasan didn't do this out of some twisted sense of love. From what I am to understand, he has made statements equating suicide bombings with throwing oneself on a grenade to save your fellow servicemen. So, I am wondering if he, in his own twisted way, saw this as an act of charity. Somewhat like mothers who kill their kids because they think the devil lives in them or because it is too evil to live on Earth.

I'm not saying what he did was right. However, as we all are trying to figure out why this happen, we should take in account that this man has served in the military for several years, is described as a "good American," and has provided therapy to hundreds of military servicemen and women returning from Iraq.

Maybe he actually thought his actions were for the greater good.

I doubt we will know for years what he was thinking because his lawyers/ the military aren't going to let anyone near him for quite some time.

Dena

denak 5 years, 1 month ago

"....One thing is clear from this incident: keep religious fundamentalists out of the military.,,,"

And just how do you propose to do that?

It is easy to throw out a statement like that but there is no legal way to do that. How do you define religious fundamentalism? Will a potential recruit have to take a test to determine if they are a religious fundementalists? What happens if they become a relgious fundementalist after they join the military? What happens if a recruit if determined to be a religious fundementalist but then renounces his or her fundementalism? Will they be able to join them? Get promoted?

Seriously, we have more problems then that in the military right now. We have lowered our standards so much that people will serious criminal backgrounds are now getting in the military. According to CNN,gangs are a problem on Fort Hood. Gang members are getting into the Army and continuing their gangsta lifestyle once in the military.

We have men and women on their third or fourth deployement. Soldiers coming back with severe PTSD. We have families falling apart.

Of all the things, our military needs to do right now, cracking down on "religious fundementalists" is not one of them.

Dena

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

Intersting point unsavoryagent. I think you've hit on something that people of differing viewpoints here can agree on. That being, there is nothing more that can be done there. Pack 'em up and bring 'em home. I know Obama would really like to nab Osama. But enough is enough.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

"I think you've hit on something that people of differing viewpoints here can agree on. That being, there is nothing more that can be done there."

And it's truly interesting how many people have only accepted this viewpoint since. . . oh, last November.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

Has any country been able to occupy Afghanistan with success through out all of recorded history, besides the indigenous population? Should America once again cut and run. Excuse me, declear victory and leave. Perhaps we should be helping Pakistan drive out the Teliban and Al-Qaeda back into Afghanistan. The enemies of America decleared war on the United States as many as thirty years ago. The terrorist will not stop. If they were to stop then they would have no reason to exist and therefore loose what ever power they currently enjoy. Wahabbism, Teliban, Al-Qaeda, Hummas, and so many other terrorist organizations exist because the United States exist. There is no correct answer to war there is only dying.

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

Jonas - “And it's truly interesting how many people have only accepted this viewpoint since… oh, last November.”

How arrogant to believe you know how other's think or feel. That is awefully presumptious.
People aren't all either this way or that. There are bright introspective people on both sides of many issues. Then there are guys like you.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

Published May 1981. "The Islamic Revolution Guards, announcing their support for the valiant struggles of the Irish people, express their sorrow over the lack of such heroes like Bobby Sands and with success for the awakened nation of Ireland against the British expansionist." "Bobby Sands is not the first victim of the empty form of democracy in the West nor will he be the last one. The numerous crimes of the West in its colonies has made history bloody."

Our enemies will not stop such propaganda against our preceived imperialism.

Remember our history least we forget.

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

"It should not be forgotten that the exportation of the Islamic Revolution depends more than anything else on its success within its own natural boundaries. An Islamic Republic should be a paradigm and a model of economic, political and cultural progress and success in the region and is the first step toward exportation of the Islamic Revolution."
So far they have done wonders. Just look at Saudi Arabia and Dubai as examples. Or perhaps Darfur!

Shane Garrett 5 years, 1 month ago

"perceived" I apologise for the transposing of the two letters r and e.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

monkey C: "How arrogant to believe you know how other's think or feel. That is awefully presumptious. People aren't all either this way or that. There are bright introspective people on both sides of many issues. Then there are guys like you."

I don't have to believe or assume anything. I notice you've been posting here for a month (at least, under this name, who knows). I've been on this forum since the beginning, and the forum before that since 2003, and I have flat Seen with my own eyes a number of posters do an about face on whether to get out of our wars, from "Don't question those in power who are in the know more than you" to "We just need to get the heck out of there now (and it's terrible that we aren't)" that coincided neatly with the last election and shift in power.

Some on this very thread. (not the one, incidentally, whose quote I used to illustrate the point)

monkey_c 5 years, 1 month ago

OK Jonas. Point taken. I'm just saying there are a lot of issues out there that at there core are bigger than Barrack Obama, and George W. Bush...or his Dad, or Reagan.....You see what I mean. I would hope most people would look at a situation as serious as war and not simply point a venemous finger at the Evil Villan of the Day, but rather look beyond the characters involved and focus on the issue, the risk, the reward, the honor involved. It simply can not be about any given elected official. They are all puppets anyway. Now perhaps if I could point by finger at the puppetmasters on both sides of any given warfront, that might be worthwhile. And so I guess that shouldn't be directed at you but rather the posters you are speaking about. And, as you may have picked up on, I'm no big Barrack lover. But I will say no one should blame the mess in the Middle East on him. He didn't want to be there from the onset and has made efforts to bring troops out of Iraq since in office. Which I aplaud. I do, however, wish he were not turning right around and sending them off to some other God forsaken desert.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 1 month ago

BlessedSap Oil has been around a lot longer than the Koran. I don't know when the commercial value came to be.

Wallythewalrus (Anonymous) says… Published May 1981. “The Islamic Revolution Guards, announcing their support for the valiant struggles of the Irish people, express their sorrow over the lack of such heroes like Bobby Sands and with success for the awakened nation of Ireland against the British expansionist.” “Bobby Sands is not the first victim of the empty form of democracy in the West nor will he be the last one. The numerous crimes of the West in its colonies has made history bloody.” Well, this Irish woman says, take a hike IRG. I don't like the IRA one little bit. I am outraged and furious of the horrors foisted on the Irish by the British in the past. I am aware of the gibes still made about my people. But I am also aware things change. Ireland did get its independence, and there are Brits that don't like all of their history, just as any country has things in their past to be ashamed of.

jonas_opines 5 years, 1 month ago

Hmmm. . . that went along better than I expected it to, good.

"I'm just saying there are a lot of issues out there that at there core are bigger than Barrack Obama, and George W. Bush…or his Dad, or Reagan…..You see what I mean."

Yes, I do. Which is why I found the utter change, around just a different politician, to be so revolting.

"I would hope most people would look at a situation as serious as war and not simply point a venemous finger at the Evil Villan of the Day, but rather look beyond the characters involved and focus on the issue, the risk, the reward, the honor involved."

Again, I agree, and again my disgust at that very thing by a number on here (not just on the right), was the motive behind my comment. For one, I see the obsession with the big faces inevitably cloud any clear look at those things you mention, as much when Bush was in power as now.

I won't lie (I try not to), I am not a particular fan of Obama right now either. I voted for him, despite quite a number of (apparently, quite accurate) reservations, largely on the war issue, which has not at this point Changed. After 6 years of war under Bush's reign, however, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for 4, since he's here for that long anyway.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 1 month ago

vanguard3 , sorry the only guess I can make from your spelling is pogue which is kiss, and I don't think that is it. Can you tell me the context is which such phrases would be used? Is this an attempt to make me look silly.

corduroypants 5 years, 1 month ago

new york – Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the alleged shooter in yesterday's massacre at Fort Hood, played a homeland security advisory role in President Barack Obama's transition into the White House, according to a key university policy institute document.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6c2_12

You wont here this from the mainstream, it was one of Obama's buddies.

=================

You've got 'em now Columbo! Why a "key university policy institute document" says so! There's gotta be a way to tie in Bill Ayers. Keep working on it!

Cooky_the_Cook 5 years, 1 month ago

If the dude is a real jihadist he will plead guilty and be executed without protest or use a public trial to push Islamic propaganda. If he is just a homicidal maniac, he will plead not guilty by reason of insanity and keep his mouth shut... then be executed.

bondmen 5 years, 1 month ago

Oh but let US not jump to any conclusions says our fearless leader. Barack Hussein Obama should be more concerned about our conclusions regarding his job performance, or lack thereof.

Officials: U.S. Aware of Hasan Efforts to Contact al Qaeda

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-shooter-contact-al-qaeda-terrorists-officials/story?id=9030873

Kat Christian 5 years, 1 month ago

I don't understand what is going on with the military when they were told by someone who knew this man that there was something not right with him. That he stated his religion was more important than this country. That should have been a red flag in itself. I think they were just trying to get rid of him by sending him to Iraq and hoping he'd get killed. Sweep it under the carpet so to speak.

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