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Archive for Sunday, May 17, 2009

Two men sought in armed robbery near 10th and Mississippi

May 17, 2009, 2:46 a.m. Updated May 17, 2009, 4:37 a.m.

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Police looking for suspects in two armed robberies

Lawrence police are looking for suspects in two armed robberies that happened in central Lawrence early Sunday morning. Enlarge video

Lawrence police officers are looking for two suspects in an armed robbery that occurred in the 1000 block of Mississippi Street early Sunday morning.

Sgt. Michael McLaren said two suspects approached three men, two 23-year-olds and one 22-year-old, in the alley behind Stadium View Apartments, 1040 Miss. One of the suspects presented a semi-automatic handgun, which he waved around and shot in the air, striking the side of the apartment complex.

The two men stole an undetermined amount of money from the victims before running toward Ninth and Indiana streets around 2:35 a.m.

The suspect with the handgun was described as a 6 foot, 180 pound black man wearing a beige shirt. The other man was described as a 6 foot, 150 pound man whose hair was in cornrows. He was wearing a dark shirt with a white design and blue jeans. McLaren said the men were thought to be in their 20s or 30s.

Officers recovered a bullet casing and a live round from the scene. A fire ladder was dispatched to get the bullet that hit the building.

Two of the robbery victims were Kansas University students. The third was visiting from Leavenworth. No one was injured.

Anybody with information can call the police at 841-7210. Callers who wish to remain anonymous are asked to call Crime Stoppers at 843-TIPS. KU Public Safety officers are also helping search for the suspects. They can be contacted at (785) 864-5900.

Comments

Flap Doodle 4 years, 11 months ago

Ti Kwan Leep leaves Tae Kwon Do whimpering in the dust.

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feeble 4 years, 11 months ago

Looking back at the recent spate of robbery and thug-like activity that graces the Lawrence police blotter and LJworld pages, it occurs to me that CC wouldn't have been much help at all.

Most of the robberies involve somone getting robbed who had been at a bar. Were they to actually carry their concealed weapon, they would have set themselves up for sanction under the Kansas Personal and Family Protection Act 75-7c10 and 75-7c12.

I mean, the first two questions a LEO is going to ask are "do you have a conceal carry permit?" and "have you had anything to drink tonight?"

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bearlybrewed 4 years, 11 months ago

Boston_Corbett

I agree that censoring comments in the LJW is rather inconsistent. I used the word penis referring to a body part regarding a sexual assault and not in any derogatory manner and it was removed. Left in the discussion were derogatory slang terms for various parts of the body and actions jokingly referring to the article. .

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kmat 4 years, 11 months ago

"AZHoop says:

Basically: Live your life in fear, don’t go certain places, and when faced with force cower and hand everything over."

People with brains will just hand over their belongings when a gun is aimed at them. My husband's a banker and has been robbed at gun point. The smart thing is to just give them what they want so you don't get hurt and let the police deal with it later. My wallet isn't worth risking my life, even if I was packing heat. Anyone that would rather try to fight when I gun is aimed at them isn't smart enough to carry a weapon. Much easier to lose a little cash (no one should be carrying much cash anyways) and some credit cards that can be cancelled very quickly.

And I don't live in fear, I do walk at night and don't avoid anyplace in Lawrence. Cowering when faced with force is smart when the force used is a loaded gun at your head. Some idiot wants to just try to attack me without a weapon, then they'd get a taste of what I learned in Tae Kwon Do and would probably be trying to retrieve their nuts since they'd be crammed way up inside.

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Pudgy1 4 years, 11 months ago

"But even ONE CC pulling his weapon when it is better for everyone involved if he just turn around and walk away can have deadly consequences." I agree 100% on this point.

"I have no problem with CC, I just have an issue with the complete dearth of training that is required from them. Make it at least on pair with law enforcement or get rid of it." I've not been through a CC course. Have you? Do they not teach CC applicants that it is usually better NOT to display a weapon, and to only draw the weapon when it is apparent that not doing so may result in death? I would hope they teach this philosophy.

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TobiasFunke 4 years, 11 months ago

lawrenceguy40 (Anonymous) says…

Tell the people that their every need will be delivered by your administration, and this is what you will get when you cannot deliver!

Be careful with your vote next time!!!!

This is complete idiocy. Seriously, it makes absolutely no sense. Is this a joke? I really do want to know.

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MyName 4 years, 11 months ago

AZHoop:

Basically: Live your life in fear, don’t go certain places, and when faced with force cower and hand everything over.

Well yeah, if you're an idiot who thinks having a gun automatically makes you safe. Or you could realize that it's only money and there's a reason why we have police in this country. If the police/law enforcement situation stops working, then I'm all for private security/concealed carry. But the problem with guns is that, the more of them are out there in public, the more likely an idiot is going to be carrying one, and the mistakes you make with guns are kind of permanent.

In any case, this is one of the great things about any civilized country: being able to walk down the street without worrying if there's some idiot out there with a gun.

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HootyWho 4 years, 11 months ago

the victims did what they were supposed to do,,, hand it over,,,and live to tell about it

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yellowhouse 4 years, 11 months ago

If the Police made it an ordinance for everyone in town to carry a camera, and all the businesses to set up some kind of surviellance recording equipment.....

I bet the crime rate would go down!

Criminals are just as afraid of camera's as they are guns!

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Katara 4 years, 11 months ago

Marion (Marion Lynn) says…

Katara (Anonymous) says…

“I imagine it has more to do with not being in a situation that would require the use of CCW. How often are you involved in a mugging, bank robbery, kidnapping or serial shooting spree, Snap?”

Marion writes:

EVen thought snap and myslef often go 'round and 'round, I'm gong to answer here.

How often?

Only takes one time!

Were I to carry, my preferred sidearm would be of heavy calibre, alloy framed, small; easily concealable, such that one might not want to practice with heavy loads; eschewing the carry gun for a heavier duplicate; that is, practicing with the sledgehammer and using the finely tuned ball-peen when the rubber meets the road.

Think “Star PD”.

or not ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Boy, talk about living in fear! It only takes one time. Do you wear your N95 masks 24/7 using that logic?

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Eride 4 years, 11 months ago

"What about all the Wild West shootouts between CCW permit holders that were gonna sweep Kansas? Oh, wait, that didn't actually happen. It appears that the vast majority of CCW permit holders are being responsible citizens. Imagine that."

I wasn't implying there were significant occurrences of this happening. But even ONE CC pulling his weapon when it is better for everyone involved if he just turn around and walk away can have deadly consequences. I have no problem with CC, I just have an issue with the complete dearth of training that is required from them. Make it at least on pair with law enforcement or get rid of it.

That is my opinion and I am sticking to it!

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

Katara (Anonymous) says…

"I imagine it has more to do with not being in a situation that would require the use of CCW. How often are you involved in a mugging, bank robbery, kidnapping or serial shooting spree, Snap?"

Marion writes:

EVen thought snap and myslef often go 'round and 'round, I'm gong to answer here.

How often?

Only takes one time!

Were I to carry, my preferred sidearm would be of heavy calibre, alloy framed, small; easily concealable, such that one might not want to practice with heavy loads; eschewing the carry gun for a heavier duplicate; that is, practicing with the sledgehammer and using the finely tuned ball-peen when the rubber meets the road.

Think "Star PD".

or not

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ArumerZwarteHoop 4 years, 11 months ago

I enjoy the suggestion on how to avoid these incidents.

  1. Don't go in alleys
  2. Don't stay out late
  3. Cooperate and have over your valuable without a struggle.

Basically: Live your life in fear, don’t go certain places, and when faced with force cower and hand everything over.

These are the same folks who voted Obama. Not surprising they are asking this regime to dictate every aspect of their lives.

I have to find a new country.

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Katara 4 years, 11 months ago

snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

What about all the Wild West shootouts between CCW permit holders that were gonna sweep Kansas? Oh, wait, that didn't actually happen. It appears that the vast majority of CCW permit holders are being responsible citizens. Imagine that. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I imagine it has more to do with not being in a situation that would require the use of CCW. How often are you involved in a mugging, bank robbery, kidnapping or serial shooting spree, Snap?

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 11 months ago

What about all the Wild West shootouts between CCW permit holders that were gonna sweep Kansas? Oh, wait, that didn't actually happen. It appears that the vast majority of CCW permit holders are being responsible citizens. Imagine that.

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Eride 4 years, 11 months ago

Concealed carry has its place, my only concern is the lack of training. There is a time and a place to whip out a CC'ed weapon and defend yourself or others and there is a time (almost ALL of the time when you don't). The only issue I have with CC is that the training is so sparse that I don't believe these people are capable of distinguishing this especially when the decision needs to be made very quickly. If someone approaches me in an alley, pulls a weapon and demands money from me I am going to give them it and the last thing I would want is someone who is CC pulling a gun on the guy pointing a weapon at me. I also wouldn't want a friend who was with me to do that either. If a situation can be avoided without violence it should be ESPECIALLY when weapons are involved.

I used to work at a bank and for awhile I was a bank teller and I had a lot of CC permit owners tell me that if they were in a bank and the teller was being held at gun point they would draw their weapon... none of these guys would listen to reason about why that would be a HORRIBLE idea. Who is the most likely one to be injured or killed in that situation? ME. (Or if not me, a co-worker, the robber, the CC, a customer, etc, why not let the robber take the money, leave, and let the cops own him later that day). Especially in the case of banks, robbing a bank is the most stupid thing you can ever do. It gets the FBI and KBI involved, the sentences are MUCH harsher, the rates of conviction are MUCH higher and while I won't go into the security measures banks use... they have very extensive and sophisticated ways of tracking and catching these people once they leave the bank... oh ya, and the money is INSURED! A CC isn't a license to go around shooting anyone displaying a gun, other peoples lives are at stake. Don't pull your weapon if it will cause violence that otherwise won't occur.

Money and valuables can be replaced, but peoples lives can't be. Keep those weapons holstered where they belong unless the only, and I mean ONLY option is to take them out.

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Boston_Corbett 4 years, 11 months ago

Handguns in the the US kill more people every day than Marion's much feared swine flu kills.

Buy a N95 mask for those statistics, Marion.

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lawrenceguy40 4 years, 11 months ago

Tell the people that their every need will be delivered by your administration, and this is what you will get when you cannot deliver!

Be careful with your vote next time!!!!

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flamingdragon 4 years, 11 months ago

here's my take: I voted for obama, so I guess that makes me liberal.....whatever, don't generalize us libs. I am all for gun toting. I am not that much into punny little concealed carry models either..I favor the hungarian AK, front pistol grip of course. If that is not available (it is kinda long) I trust my "red nine" broomhandle...at home, it is all up to the 12-gauge mariner 9-shot pistol grip mossberg. that said, anybody who uses a gun to hold up some wimpy frat-boys deserves the eventual lead shot to the face that they will get. followed by one "down in the dome".

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ArumerZwarteHoop 4 years, 11 months ago

The idea that constant submission and cowering will bring peace and stop violence is very dangerous.

Of coarse some who have CC will be shot as they resist, but they are serving the greater good by resisting the common enemies of all citizenry

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loudmouthrealist 4 years, 11 months ago

Marion also writes:

"Are you suggesting that ordinary citiznes are not qualified to make a decision as to when to defend themselves?"

That is exactly what I am saying. Like the couple in Texas that killed the 7year old for trespassing on their front lawn. http://www.kansascity.com/440/story/1187643.html

And even trained professionals make mistakes in these kind of situations. http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=164626

And then there was the irate republican: http://blogs.app.com/saywhat/2008/10/28/teen-shot-while-stealing-mccain-signs/

Do you want more examples of bad decisions being made by humans?

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loudmouthrealist 4 years, 11 months ago

Marion writes:

Some of us will not live in fear, especially the false fears that ............."

Boy Marion that statement reeks of fear.

Here is my counter statement to that:

I do not fear carrying a gun

I do not fear NOT carrying a gun.

I do not fear being downtown at any time of day of night NOT carrying a gun.

I do not fear possible criminals wanting to harm me. I will deal with the situation when it arises.

What I do fear is unqualified CC'c that think they are the action hero and can win no matter what. (You are not in Hollywood).

What I do fear are all the people driving (CC's and non CC's) that are not qualified to do so.

What I also fear is Marion attacking my typos. Your "gonna" (not a typo) make me cry.

Hey Marion. Do us a favor and give us somde stats:

How many CC's in the US have died from ciminals gunshots?

How many CC's in the US have killed criminals?

How many CC's have been killed in Car related accidents?

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

loudmouthrealist (Anonymous) says…

And being a realist.

Concealed Carriers training in no way qualifies CC's to make life or death decisions."

Marion writes:

The law has done that for us, permitting the exercise of deadly force when faced with the threat of deadly force.

Are you suggesting that ordinary citiznes are not qualified to make a decision as to when to defend themselves?

loudmouthrealist (Anonymous) wrote:

"But in a dark ally after bar closing hours (possible alcohol invoved) it looses it's merits very fast."

Marion writes:

CCW folks would not be carrying in bars or while intoxicated.

Concern allayed.

The perps might be loaded but too bad for them!

Hey, there, .loudmouthrealist (Anonymous) , your fears must have been sparked by something other than faulty logic and wilid-eyed imagination; there must have been dozens,, hundreds or perhaps even thousands of self-defence situations gone awry with an equal number of innocent bystanders having been shot in the base of the spine and elsewhere, so fix up the Gentle Readers with a link or two the carnage, will you?

oh that's "loses", not "looses".

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loudmouthrealist 4 years, 11 months ago

And being a realist.

Concealed Carriers training in no way qualifies CC's to make life or death decisions. It is easy to answer questions on what should be done on a test. And I know of 2 CC's that based on their reflexes and physical health conditions (relatives) should not even be driving.

Professional law enforcement goes through continued and extensive training to be proficient when faced with life or death decision making. I am sure all you CC's go thorough extensive and continuing (weekly or monthly?) training process to hon your skills.

Concealed Carry has its purpose, and I am a true believer in shoot to kill in your home when faced with a threat.

But in a dark ally after bar closing hours (possible alcohol invoved) it looses it's merits very fast.

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

loudmouthrealist (Anonymous) :

Marion writes:

Some of us will not live in fear, especially the false fears that you propose.

We will not submit to the thugs, mujggers and criminals.

We will take back our streets, alleys, cities, towns and will protect ourselves, our loved ones, our businesses, our property anda yes, even you, loudmouthrealist (Anonymous).

Go here to learn a few realities:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/blogger.html

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Flap Doodle 4 years, 11 months ago

"One of the bullets is probably going to hit one of your buds in the spine." I loves the smell of hyperbole in the afternoon.

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loudmouthrealist 4 years, 11 months ago

Or scenario E through way to many to count:

E) One of the guys shot by errant bullet of perp.

F) Two of the guys shot by errant bullet of perp.

G) Wannabe pulls gun. Perp wounds wannabe. Wannabe shots friend by accident.

H) Same as above except wannabe shoots into apartment and hits bystander.

I) Wannabe hits perp. Perp still fires and hits wannabes friend.

J though .......) You name your scenario after assuming wannabe pulled gun but did not kill perp.

The way this crime played out in real life is the best possible solution (besides the wannabe dropping the perp with) , even if the police never find them.

And being a realist myself why don't you take a moment and think this scenario through.

Perp has a gun on you. You have a conceled gun. How fast can you draw, release safety, aim and fire. verses the perp already having the round chambered and pulling the trigger. Perp had a semi automatic. He fires 3-7 rounds in seconds. One of the bullets is probably going to hit one of your buds in the spine. Are you willing to change that guys colostomy bag for the rest of his life?

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Boston_Corbett 4 years, 11 months ago

I'm fascinated that the LJW mods removed a post of mine where I explain that I can understand Marions gun rants only in context of his rather peculiar views regarding WW II and the Holocaust.

I don't see how "connecting the dots" on Marions views of the world is any violation of any of the LJW Terms of Use.

I would just suggest the mods read more of his posts. I said nothing not factually supported by Marion's own postings on this very forum.

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

loudmouthrealist :

Marion writes:

C) Trained CCW citizen displays the firearm and a willingness to use it and the perps run away.

D) Trained CCW citizen drops perps where they stand.

Two more of the possibilities.

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loudmouthrealist 4 years, 11 months ago

Question for Marion, Oldvet and any "wannabe" vigilante hero. What is the better option of these two scenarios:

A) They hand over their money, live to tell the police about it, law enforcement has solid evidence and living witnesses. Law enforcement does their job (maybe slower than the wanabe's like it) and get the "perps" of the streets.

B) 3 guys get robbed at gun point. One of the guys is a "wannabe" vigilante hero. Gunplay erupts and possibly 3 dead witnesses that can no longer identify the "perps".

These are only 2 of the many outcomes this crime could take. Both of them on the extreme ends of all possible outcomes.

I know which one I would choose.

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RoeDapple 4 years, 11 months ago

Nah, my fault. Been doing "real" work this week,(read 'manual labor') so body is not attached to head. Only skimmed comments and reacted accordingly. I be better now.

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somebodynew 4 years, 11 months ago

But in your defense RoeDapple - flux could have included quotes around the comment he was being sarcastic about so that it would not seem to be his/her own statement.

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somebodynew 4 years, 11 months ago

Roe ?? I guess so. You normally are much more "in tune" than that. Been there, done that though, so hope your day gets better and is good to you.

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RoeDapple 4 years, 11 months ago

Sorry flux, need more coffee............

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flux 4 years, 11 months ago

That was my point RoeDapple.....

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RoeDapple 4 years, 11 months ago

No flux, the idiot is you. People who live and/or are employed in areas where crossing the alley is part of their daily routine should not have to alter their way of life to fit your ideal. They aren't the problem, any more than a rural resident who gets mugged in the driveway of their home after working the 5:00 PM to 2:00AM shift. Only an idiot blames the victim.

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duplenty 4 years, 11 months ago

"Only in the demented, broken and fragmented minds of “liberals” is self-defence considered to be thuggery."

Only idiots generalize, marion.

I'm a liberal, I'm a gun owner, and ten bucks says I'm a better shot than you.

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flux 4 years, 11 months ago

Once again……stay out of alley's at night idiot's!

Yes, its the victims fault....please

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

tumbilweed (Anonymous) says…

You mean we will have to start acting like thugs to get rid of the thugs. Are you sure this will solve anything."

Marion writes:

Only in the demented, broken and fragmented minds of "liberals" is self-defence considered to be thuggery.

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RoeDapple 4 years, 11 months ago

tumbilweed (Anonymous) says… "You mean we will have to start acting like thugs to get rid of the thugs. Are you sure this will solve anything."

It might.

Only getting worse using the "Wish it would just go away" method.

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tumbilweed 4 years, 11 months ago

srj, sounds like you are a criminal yourself.

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Multidisciplinary 4 years, 11 months ago

srj, Why you ask? 3 perfectly fine young men were on route to the Emerald City to ask the Wizard for brains, got hungry, couldn't find any apple trees to throw apples at them and they got desperate.

The man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. If they want to find them, should be simple just ease on down ease on down the road. ,;-)

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jafs 4 years, 11 months ago

The easier way to prevent these problems would be to be home in bed at 2:35am.

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edjayhawk 4 years, 11 months ago

I'm with you Marion on this one. When is enough, enough? I always said I would never own a firearm, but now I'm thinking otherwise...

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tumbilweed 4 years, 11 months ago

You mean we will have to start acting like thugs to get rid of the thugs. Are you sure this will solve anything.

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

You see, people, soon we will have to take back our streets, alleys, parks, neighbourhoods and cities because law enforcement cannot do this for us.

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Boston_Corbett 4 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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somebodynew 4 years, 11 months ago

LarryNative - While that is a good idea, you do realize that is where the parking lots for all those apts and houses are, don't you? While the article doesn't really mention it, they perhaps just parked their car and were trying to get home.

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Steven Gaudreau 4 years, 11 months ago

Once again......STAY OUT OF ALLEY'S AT NIGHT IDIOT'S!

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

oldvet (Anonymous) says…

It happens every day, Marion…"

Yeppers and it needs to happen right here in River City!

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Marion Lynn 4 years, 11 months ago

One day soon, some forward-thinking lawfully armed citizen is going to drop one of these thugs where it stands.

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Kookamooka 4 years, 11 months ago

As soon as I read that I thought...yippee they left some evidence! It won't be long now.

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pissedinlawrence 4 years, 11 months ago

This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.

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jaywalker 4 years, 11 months ago

srj,

'Cuz they're morons. Wonder if they're the same clowns from near L West?

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Steve Jacob 4 years, 11 months ago

In a robbery, why leave a trace like that (a semi automatic bullet casing) if you don't have too? If they ever catch you with that weapon, even on unrelated charges, you will for sure lose a trial.

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