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Archive for Thursday, May 7, 2009

Bristol Palin promotes abstinence for teens

May 7, 2009

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— Bristol Palin, arguably the nation’s best-known unwed teen mother, embarked on a media tour Wednesday to argue that abstinence is a realistic way for teens to avoid unwanted pregnancy — a view not shared by the father of her infant son.

Palin, the 18-year-old daughter of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, walked the red carpet in midtown Manhattan with Hayden Panettiere of NBC’s “Heroes” and ace Tampa Bay Rays pitcher Matt Garza. The three appeared at a town-hall meeting for teenagers organized by The Candie’s Foundation, which works to reduce teen pregnancy.

Wednesday was National Teen Pregnancy Awareness Day.

Palin gave birth in December to a baby boy, Tripp.

“Regardless of what I did personally, I just think that abstinence is the only way you can effectively, 100 percent foolproof way you can prevent pregnancy,” she said.

Palin’s promotion of abstinence was a turnaround from what she told Fox News in February. Then, she said teens should avoid sex, but abstinence is “not realistic at all.”

Comments

Linda and Bill Houghton 5 years, 6 months ago

She had it right back in February. Abstinence is a guarantee if it is practiced, but with the hormones raging as they do in the teen years it is NOT realistic.

repaste 5 years, 6 months ago

Her Mom & Dad did not believe in abstinence, nor did she.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

Perhaps not, repaste, but now that she is an 18 year old single mother I reckon she's realized her mistake and would love to go back in time. Experience is the best teacher.

supertrampofkansas 5 years, 6 months ago

A classic case of "Do as I say not as I do".

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

As Sarah Palin continues her campaign for president, I'm sure we'll hear lots more "do as I say, not as I do," admonitions.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 6 months ago

Do as I say, not as I do. This is going to have the opposite effect intended. Kids will look at her and either emulate her for how happy she looks with her baby or figure out that she's a hypocritical 'ho and engage in sex anyway. Of course if the teen pregnancy rate goes up as a result, the republicans will blame Obama.

supertrampofkansas 5 years, 6 months ago

Jaywalker,

Exactly. Unless you actually experience it, no matter how many times someone says it, you never learn as well as you do through the experience. Besides, realistically speaking, we are simply not built to practice abstinence.

temperance 5 years, 6 months ago

I've heard that teens respond really well to that "do as I say, not as I do" message.

This is a little like Ted Nugent promoting veganism.

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 6 months ago

Black is white. Up is down.

Positively Orwellian, but then that is probably giving these tundra-billies too much credit.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 5 years, 6 months ago

"What's with the left's ongoing fixation with Sarah Palin/The Palins?"

It's you repugs that put them on the national stage, Tom. Quit trying to foist your own fixation on others.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

"Besides, realistically speaking, we are simply not built to practice abstinence"

No doubt about that. The thing that blows me away is how much 'unsafe' sex still goes on. I grew up when AIDS was just beginning, but it was the abject terror of getting a girl pregnant when I was 16, 17, 18 ......that made me a stickler for 'safety'. Now, with all we know and impart to kids about STD's stacked right on top of the threat of pregnancy.........?????? I guess there's just no way to get into teenagers' heads that they're not bullet-proof.

Drew Alan 5 years, 6 months ago

"Perhaps not, repaste, but now that she is an 18 year old single mother I reckon she's realized her mistake and would love to go back in time. Experience is the best teacher."

Except that in the interview she said if she could go back in time and do it all over again, she wouldn't change a thing. THAT is why abstinence doesn't work. Why should a pampered, rich teen girl be the face of abstinence? She looks too happy and put-together to be a "realistic" single teen mother. What about a teen mother whose parents can't help her because they are struggling to take care of themselves? That should be the face of abstinence, not a spoiled governors daughter, a major league baseball player, and an actress who plays an indestructible hero on TV...

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

"“Regardless of what I did personally, I just think that abstinence is the only way you can effectively, 100 percent foolproof way you can prevent pregnancy,”

But if never having sex ever doesn't sound like fun and you are satisfied with a measely %99.99 chance of preventing pregnancy, then use a condom.

Chris Ogle 5 years, 6 months ago

Too bad her doorbell didn't ring earlier.

jd 5 years, 6 months ago

You can't win with some of you people. If she didn't have a child and preached abstinence, you'd all trash her for her 'unrealistic' religious views. Now that she's talking from experience you think she's a hypocrite.

She's trying to make the best of a difficult situation. Cut her some slack.

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

Abstinence amoung teens is realistic. If kids are taught from a young age to practice self control then not having sex really isn't that big of deal or an entirely new concept. I think the issue lies much deeper in our society and how self control is not a common practice. Want that big car now? Get a loan. Want to leave your wife and family for the hot new secretary at work? Get a divorce. Want to "escape" the pressure? Bury yourself in an alcohol bottle. Instead of people saving for stuff before they buy it and controlling their whims, our society says you can simply put the blame on someone else. After all, that new car will "make you feel better" and you can't "help yourself anyway". Self control is the answer. Parents, practice it, teach your kids and you will lower the chances of your 14 year old coming home and saying she is pregnant.

RoeDapple 5 years, 6 months ago

Wasting your time jd. Democrats still obviously think Obama won strictly by Democrats voting for him, lumping all Republicans in the same category as Rush Limbaugh. Makes it easier for them. If we were crapping gold bars on their doorsteps they would complain that we didn't bring them indoors.

greenlid79 5 years, 6 months ago

Oy! I wonder if she wore a T-shirt to this event saying "I tried sex and all I got was this lousy baby" (Her baby is by no means lousy and I know she doesn't think so either) But, what exactly is her message? "See what happened to me?" Maybe it is true that abstinence is the only ABSOLUTE guarantee, but it's just not realistic. There's abstinence "education" (like no one knows they don't have to have sex) and sex education. It seems to me if someone's promoting abstinence, they're just not being practical. No one should be pressured into having sex until they're ready. But in the real world, younguns 'do it' and they need to be educated about how to do it safely. If a teenager focuses on abstinence (likely a small minority, anyway) only, and hasn't been educated about safe sex practices, they'll simply be unprepared when passions flare.

I'd be very surprised if she were doing this media tour of her own volition. Mom's gotta set everything straight for '12 right?

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

barrypenders: inevitable? So it is inevitable that all teenaged girls will have sex? I beg to differ. I and several other young women did not have sex in our teens and are all the better for it. It is not inevitable if you have a decent role model and ignore idiots like yourself who obviously have no standards for our youth.

grandnanny 5 years, 6 months ago

Just wondering! Who's taking are of baby Tripp while Bristol is in NYC enjoying her 15 minutes of fame?

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

"Abstinence amoung teens is realistic."

No. It never has been, and never will be.

"If kids are taught from a young age to practice self control then not having sex really isn't that big of deal or an entirely new concept."

The issue here isn't self-control, it's the machinary of our bodies which has developed so that our species can survive. No matter of teaching or tutoring from birth will fully prepare a child for the rush of hormones and emotions during puberty to the extent that they remain objective and rational. Heck, I would argue that a defining characteristic of an adolescent is a distinct lack of rationality and objectivity, among other emotions. One of those emotions is an amazing amount of sexual energy as our bodies tell us that we are now ready to mate, and part of the defining experience of puberty is finding out responsible, safe, ways of releasing that energy in a society where mating for reproductive purposes is not as high of a priority as it was when the homo-sapien first developed. Repression of these emotions through an authoritarian stance (a la religion/abstinence only education) only encourages ignorance and conflicts youth by telling them that what they are feeling is "dirty" or "wrong", when it is actually the most natural feeling that humanity has ever nurtured. This leaves them ripe for more stupid decisions later in life, such as not finding a partner with whom they are sexually compatable or the choice to not use protection when they do finally "break the seal".

The rest of your post is pretty nonsensical, as you attempt to blur the line between the choice to have sex, which is a desire brought about unconsiously by developing bodies, and acts of denial and escapism that are concsiously brought upon by people living in a culture of indulgence. What you describe are choices people are making because they desire material things. The desire to have sex is not a choice.

Millions of years of evolution and a few short decades observing my fellow humans has taught me that you can never, ever, teach a human how to not desire sex. You can, however, make their experience as safe as possible.

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

cthulhu_4_president: The issue is not a desire or lack thereof. We are human and that is one of our built in desires. Just because I desire something doesn't mean that I have to give into that desire. I do not view sex as "dirty" or "wrong" or anything of the kind. I view it as a wonderful gift that shouldn't be shared with just anyone. I am by far ignorant of sex, "safe sex", etc. In fact I might consider myself more educated on the subject of the female body than most of my peers. That knowledge wasn't gained by sleeping around, it was gained through study and paying attention to my own body. Once again, I reiterate, it is a self control issue. Yes the desire is there, it will always be there. The issue is how kids are taught to control their desires.

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

duplenty: Abstinence is all about self control and respect for one's body. Those that are educated in abstinence and have a good role model (a relative, "big brother or sister", church leader, etc) are much less likely to engage in teen sex or have an abortion.

Alexander Neighbors 5 years, 6 months ago

This would be equivalent to Hitler promoting peace and non-violence . Or OJ Simpson promoting anti-spousal abuse.........

Connacht 5 years, 6 months ago

All that's missing is for Bristol to get pregnant a second time and name the child "Chastity".

Then the circle of oxymoronic hypocrisy would be complete.

meggers 5 years, 6 months ago

Many teens engaging in 'abstinence only' relationships are still having oral and anal sex without using protection, placing themselves at a higher risk of contracting an STD. As long as there is no vaginal intercourse, they still consider themselves 'virgins'.

Now that I think of it, it's sort of like 'teaching to the test'. The kid learns what they were taught, but they often have no context with which to apply the knowledge. Just another unintended consequence of 'abstinence only' education.

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

" We are human and that is one of our built in desires."

Yes, I just spent an entire post saying exactly that.

"Just because I desire something doesn't mean that I have to give into that desire."

And I never said you should. Merely that repression of that desire through the "education" you are supporting is counter-productive and leads to more problems. Points in my last post that you ignored (ignorance about sexual compatibility, condom use).

" I do not view sex as “dirty” or “wrong” or anything of the kind."

I never said you did, what I said was this is how a child views it in a religious and abstinence-only environment (which I clarified). This leads to conflict, and can incur real damage.

"I am by far ignorant of sex, “safe sex”, etc. In fact I might consider myself more educated on the subject of the female body than most of my peers. That knowledge wasn't gained by sleeping around, it was gained through study and paying attention to my own body."

Um, good for you? Your testimonial, and any testimonial, carries no weight in this issue.

"Once again, I reiterate, it is a self control issue. Yes the desire is there, it will always be there. The issue is how kids are taught to control their desires."

No, you are trying to teach them to muzzle that desire, which, again, leads to more ignorance and more wrong decisions.

"Those that are educated in abstinence and have a good role model (a relative, “big brother or sister”, church leader, etc) are much less likely to engage in teen sex or have an abortion."

There is no evidence that supports this. Actually, the opposite is being suggested.

Aileen Dingus 5 years, 6 months ago

Bristol Palin is right. Abstinence IS “the only way you can effectively, 100 percent foolproof way you can prevent pregnancy.”

However, it is NOT the only thing we need to be teaching our children about sex and sexuality. It has been proven time and again that the “just say no” approach to teenaged sex doesn’t always work. Kids should be taught from the time they’re old enough to discern the difference between the genders about sexuality and what it means.

I’m not talking about telling your 4 year old about STIs and discussing condom differences with your 8 year old, but rather teaching people the difference between a healthy relationship and an unhealthy one, the difference between age appropriate behavior and non etc. What we REALLY need to teach our children is the reality of their own being. What happens to their lives if/when they become parents- the risks involved, the joys, the pains, the responsibilities. Add your own religious and spiritual beliefs if you will, just make sure your belief doesn’t keep you from telling kids what they need to know about sexuality.

Above all- talk to your kids. Find out what they’re doing, support and nurture their good choices, and work with them when they make a poor choice. It might not be easy at first, but keep at it. If you find it is too difficult to do all this- find someone for whom it is easier and ask him or her to talk to your kids. It's important.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 6 months ago

meggers (Anonymous) says… Many teens engaging in 'abstinence only' relationships are still having oral and anal sex without using protection, placing themselves at a higher risk of contracting an STD. As long as there is no vaginal intercourse, they still consider themselves 'virgins'.

It's called "Saddlebacking" after Rick Warren's mega-church.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 6 months ago

I believe sex ed classes should emphasize abstinence as the best means to prevent disease and unwanted pregnancy, but come on, you have to teach them about condoms and birth control or you are not teaching the whole truth. More education is always better than less and if you leave gaping holes in their knowledge kids will fill them in with all kinds of nonsense like Saddlebacking and "you can't get pregnant the first time" and other malarkey.

kmat 5 years, 6 months ago

Sorry Music Girl, but completely disagree with you and prez had it correct in his/her post. We are still animals and the main important things animal brains are programmed for are reproduction, eating and breathing.

There is nothing wrong with teaching teenagers that sex is awesome, but only if done safely. The main part of that is using protection. My mother was a complete priss brought up in the 40's and married in the 50's. She had me when she was older and all my siblings are much older than me. She taught them sex was evil if you weren't married and they didn't get taught about birth control. One sister got married at 18 because they couldn't wait (then divorced). Other sister was pregnant at 19 (got married, then later divorced). She was realistic with me and learned that you can't push abstinence and taught me correctly, realizing the day and age her kids were living in and that most likely I would have sex before I was married. So, she didn't teach me that sex was dirty and should be avoided. She taught me about my body and protecting myself.

Abstinence is not about respecting your body. Abstinence is trying to ignore your body's natural desires.

I knew a girl in high school who was all about abstinence. Carried a bible everywhere she went. Preached to everyone about it. She was knocked up right before graduation.

The only unplanned pregnancy I had was in my 30's while married.

gogoplata 5 years, 6 months ago

Why can't both be taught. Abstinence is best and is possible but use a rubber if you decide not to wait.

I waited until I was married so it is possible.

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

It's no wonder today's youth are the way they are. Look how their "role models" stand on this issue! It is sad that we have been degraded to nothing but animals with desires that we inevitably will act on in inappropriate ways. I thought humans were supposed to be smarter than animals...

3crookedhearts 5 years, 6 months ago

"Abstinence is the only way you can effectively, 100 percent foolproof way you can prevent pregnancy"

Wrong. Look what happened to Mary (you would think that some as Christian as Bristol Palin would know this).

cthulhu_4_president 5 years, 6 months ago

"It's no wonder today's youth are the way they are."

If you think that "the way they are" is what you read about in the newspapers, then you are quite ignorant.

"Look how their “role models” stand on this issue! It is sad that we have been degraded to nothing but animals with desires that we inevitably will act on in inappropriate ways."

Music_girl continues to put words in her detractors mouths. No one has said once that people will act on impulses in inppropriate ways no matter what, but that education about those impulses is preferable to ignoring them and hoping that the problem just fixes itself. Also, no one has ever said that abstinence isn't effective. That would be incorrect, but it is not the only effective way. And other ways have been shown to have a higher liklihood of success.

"I thought humans were supposed to be smarter than animals…"

Perhaps you missed the update, but humans are animals in a very real sense, and it's likely that part of our brains always will be quite feral. However, I feel that our discussion with Music girl is at an end. She has no points to make and her argument has been reduced to attacking whoever these "role models" are and putting words in people's mouths. Try to come back later with a coherant post that doesn't attack a strawman and we can begin again.

Kirk Larson 5 years, 6 months ago

Music_Girl, you're right. Bristol Pailin is a piss-poor role model. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging our animal nature. It's those who deny it, like your Jimmy Swaggerts, your Ted Haggards, even your John Edwards, that end up embarrassing themselves and proving themselves hypocrites. There's nothing wrong with being an animal; you and I do it all the time!

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

I am sad and fearful for the generation right behind me. Our grandparents didn't have birth control and condoms back in the day. Teen pregnancy wasn't hardly even an issue back then. Why is that? Heaven forbid speaking an opinion that is against the mainstream or suddenly you are "ignorant". Yes, cthulhu_4_president, I am done arguing with you. There is no point in talking to a brick wall.

pace 5 years, 6 months ago

Born again virgins lead the kids , oops, a tradition of posture versus stance.

mom_of_three 5 years, 6 months ago

Oh, Musicgirl. Yes, teen pregnancy has always been an issue, but no one talked about it. My grandparents eloped in the 1940's because she was pregnant, and they were married for 50+ years. My grandfather's uncle was married at 19, (and this would have been before 1910), because she was pregnant. Teen pregnancy happened, they just didn't talk about it like we do now. It was whispered about. The pregnant girls "went away" to school and gave up the babies, or got married. No, there wasn't a rash of unwed mothers, because they were hidden, and yes, the numbers were probably less, because of society. But it did happen more often than people wanted to admit.

mom_of_three 5 years, 6 months ago

You know, maybe if Bristol had the baby with her on stage, it would be more effective for teenagers, as she had to stop to feed him, change him, confort him, to show how babies can interrupt a life.

RoeDapple 5 years, 6 months ago

M_G, "Nothing is new under the sun" My grand mother used to tell us that back in the '50's. We didn't invent sex, teen pregnancy, homosexuality, almost anything happening today was happening since time began. In the '50's, if a teen got pregnant she was shipped off to a relative in "Colorado" or "Texas" or wherever for a year to "help out" or "babysit" for the duration of the pregnancy and to find a home for the "bastard" child.The immediate family knew but it was all hush, hush. The rumors died off quickly, except for a few who "knew". I don't see that as ignorance. Just never having been made aware....

jonas_opines 5 years, 6 months ago

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says at 8:59am

"What's with the left's ongoing fixation with Sarah Palin/The Palins?"

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says… at 12:22pm

"Bristol, like her mother and younger sister, is a hottie. You know she's got 100 of those thingies coming at her at any given moment. Use a rubber next time, or at a mimimum coitus interruptus, Bristol. Get on the pill."

I just thought those should be put next to each other.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

“Experience is the best teacher.”

––––––—

"Maybe so, but if you are promoting an approach that requires “abstaining” from having that experience, then you can't very well turn around and say that experience is the best teacher."

Not what the initial statement implied. She didn't abstain and experienced the consequence. Experience taught her the foolishness of her actions. Not much point listening to people talk about something they haven't experienced, generally speaking. That's why we have ex-cons lecturing kids on staying out of trouble, recovering alcoholics and drug abusers lecturing on the devastation that path can lead to, parents lecturing on anything they might have screwed up on when they were their kids age. "This is what I did, this is what that experience did to me, pay heed."

"Except that in the interview she said if she could go back in time and do it all over again, she wouldn't change a thing. THAT is why abstinence doesn't work. Why should a pampered, rich teen girl be the face of abstinence? She looks too happy and put-together to be a “realistic” single teen mother. What about a teen mother whose parents can't help her because they are struggling to take care of themselves? That should be the face of abstinence.."

Um, sure, dsmith, I'm sure noone would villify her for saying she wished she'd never had her baby. Saying she wouldn't change a thing is a rhetorical response. Who said she IS the 'face' of teen pregnancy? She's one of 'em, and in case you hadn't noticed, anyone with a modicum of celebrity is foisted on us as the 'face' of something because people listen and respond to those they know, not to Sally Jane Anonymous who's having a rougher go of things. You think kids would respond better to the Olson twins opining on something or to Peggy from the projects? Get real.

beatrice 5 years, 6 months ago

The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.

gogoplata 5 years, 6 months ago

Does anyone have a problem with teaching both?

Thinking_Out_Loud 5 years, 6 months ago

RoeDapple wrote "I don't see that as ignorance. Just never having been made aware…."

Huh? If that's not what ignorance is, then my dictionary has a typo....

Kirk Larson 5 years, 6 months ago

beatrice (Anonymous) says… The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree.

And they are both nuts.

Music_Girl, you are not aware then that teen pregnancy was higher in the 50's than it was in the 80's?

supertrampofkansas 5 years, 6 months ago

"Our grandparents didn't have birth control and condoms back in the day. Teen pregnancy wasn't hardly even an issue back then." - Music Girl

Music Girl.

I have found the 2 links given below to be informative and I think they are fairly representative of what has actually happened historically. The second link does suggest that a combinition of both abstinence education and comprehensive sex education to be the best approach.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html

http://www.unicef-irc.org//publications/pdf/repcard3e.pdf

yourworstnightmare 5 years, 6 months ago

Abstinence is a key part of sex education, as not having sex is the best way to not get pregnant.

It should be a part of a comprehensive sex education program that includes abstinence as well as safe sex information.

Christine Anderson 5 years, 6 months ago

I think that Ms. Palin simply started figuring out just how hard her life is now as a single parent. Maybe she's thinking, "OMG, what have I gotten myself into?" Maybe. Even though her parents are able to help her financially, that does not mean the rest of her life(and the baby's) will be easy. I do tend to agree with the poster(s) who say teen pregnancy has always been around. On a recent visit to relatives, I discovered something that shocked me and made me giggle at the same time. My grandmother would be 105 yrs old if she were still living. My 80 yr. old aunt was born in March of 1929. I learned for the first time that my grandparents' anniversary was in August of 1928. Oops! My Grandma? No way! But yep, she would have been about two months pregnant when they married. Now I know why she always told me that "a woman is her most fertile at the age of 24". See, my Grandma always DID know what she was talking about.

beatrice 5 years, 6 months ago

“What's with the left's ongoing fixation with Sarah Palin/The Palins?”

It isn't a fixation as much as it is the Palins make it quite easy for those of us on the left to make fun of them. They represent the low-hanging fruit of the neocon movement and are easy to pick apart.

feeble 5 years, 6 months ago

How would your wife and kids in Linwood feel about that Tom?

bad_dog 5 years, 6 months ago

Feel free to fantasize about “hypothetically” dating either gender, Nancy. I certainly don’t care. Whatever blows your skirt up.

Would you date a Kennedy teenager? Just a hypothetical question, you know.

Chris Ogle 5 years, 6 months ago

jreader (Anonymous) says…

"..... According to many spouses of both genders, you have to get married for it to fully kick in."


Can't argue about that one, jreader

.

KansasPerson 5 years, 6 months ago

Nancy Boy said: "Bristol, like her mother and younger sister, is a hottie."

By "younger sister" do you mean that little girl??? Ewwwwwwwww, you are sick.

Chris Ogle 5 years, 6 months ago

Stop it Tom... I just spilled my beer laughing... besides that, you are going piss bozo off, and he needs his sleep. .

KansasPerson 5 years, 6 months ago

Why can't Music Girl state her opinions here? Everyone else can. Let's have some civil discourse here and not just bash someone you don't agree with. How about the St. John's College model.... "While Ms. Girl has some valid points, I disagree with [whatever]."

cthulhu_4_president (Anonymous) says… –––––- ” I do not view sex as “dirty” or “wrong” or anything of the kind.” –––––– I never said you did, what I said was this is how a child views it in a religious and abstinence-only environment (which I clarified). This leads to conflict, and can incur real damage. ––––––—

Actually, Mr. or Ms. cthulhu, I know plenty of people who are being raised in a religious environment who are NOT told that sex is "dirty" -- only that it belongs in a marriage -- and whether I agree with that or not, it's far from telling them that it's "dirty." You may be interested in reading one of the many publications on "Theology of the Body" if you want are interested in seeing what is being taught in many homes. You may not agree with it, but it's always better to know what reasons people have behind their actions, don't you think? Secondly, could you please elaborate on the "real damage" that can according to your view occur? And thirdly, you say "I never said you did, what I said was this is how a child views it in a religious and abstinence-only environment"... I don't know if M.G. was raised religiously, but her posts certainly seem to point to her being raised in an "abstinence-only environment" so aren't you in fact talking about her? –––––– Um, good for you? Your testimonial, and any testimonial, carries no weight in this issue. ––––––—

Then why are we paying any attention to the subject of this article in the first place? How are you going to talk about this issue unless you are talking about real people?

“Once again, I reiterate, it is a self control issue. Yes the desire is there, it will always be there. The issue is how kids are taught to control their desires.” ––––––– No, you are trying to teach them to muzzle that desire, which, again, leads to more ignorance and more wrong decisions. ––––––

I agree that some young folks are taught to just ignore those feelings, but that's not what Music Girl is saying, is it? She's saying (I think; and she can feel free to correct me if I'm misreading her) that they are being taught self-control.

Let's let folks have their say and be polite in our discourse. tilting at windmills, I know

beatrice 5 years, 6 months ago

I think if Tom dates an 18 year old student at KU, then the university should have to notify that 18 year old's parents.

jaywalker 5 years, 6 months ago

logicsound at 5:57 summed it up perfectly.

kmat 5 years, 6 months ago

KSperson - it was fine for music girl to state her opinion. BUT, she also threw in a bunch of senseless crap. That's why everyone jumped in and corrected her.

And it's not just about teaching self control. Music girl seems to believe that you have to repress your natural feelings. That's not healthy for anyone and usually those are the people that end up knocked up.

Look what happens when a religious institution insists of abstinence and self control. Worked so well for the Catholic church, didn't it. And I'm not just talking about the recent scandals either. Quite a few priests have enjoyed some nun. We are animals and the majority of us will fall prey to our animal instincts. So, better to teach everyone how to be safe instead of teaching repression.

gogoplata 5 years, 6 months ago

The problem here is that Bristol Palin and others who agree with her are advocating abstinence ONLY education. And by definition, you can't teach abstinence-only education AND full sex education.

I agree. Lets just not kid ourselves and think that full sex ed. is going to solve all our problems. I see it as being a better way to prepare young people than Abstinence only but it is unfair to say that because Palin was taught abstinence only that she was unprepared and got pregnant. How many kids have been taught full sex ed and got pregnant? I know there were plenty in my high school.

Music_Girl 5 years, 6 months ago

KansasPerson, thank you from the bottom of my heart for being fair about listening to someone else with a different opinion on this issue. Yes I was raised in an abstinence-only household. Theology of the body is exactly what I was taught; it makes me happy that someone else actually knows about that on this blog. You are also correct in your assumption that I am talking about self control on acting on the desires that are natural to us.

kmat, I am not talking about repression in any sense of the word. I am talking about teaching yourself when it is appropriate to act on those desires and alternatives to handling them. There are other ways to get out hormonal frustrations, such as sports, art, etc. One does not have to have sex in order to deal with hormonal frustration. I am also offended by your reference to the Catholic church. It is interesting how that specific religion is almost always cited for it's issues on that topic even though I have seen way more local issues with protestant youth ministers. There are no perfect humans and there are people with shortcomings in all professions from ministers to dentists to lawyers to the lady who does your wife's hair.

Summerguuurl007 5 years, 6 months ago

It would be hot to ahve sex with Bristol Palin. She has HUGE chesticles.

3crookedhearts 5 years, 6 months ago

I totally agree with music girl on two points she made.

1.) "There are other ways to get out hormonal frustrations." I like her sports and art suggestions, but personally, I much prefer mutual masterbation and oral sex. Those are GREAT alternatives. Remember, just like Christmas, it's better to give than to receive.

2.) "There are no perfect humans." Very well said. Too many people on these forums seem to think otherwise. Not even Jesus was perfect! Nice call, I totally agree.

kmat 5 years, 6 months ago

There it is. Music girl is a strict catholic and gets her education from the Pope. Sorry you're offended about comments about your church, but that Catholic church is extremely corrupt. My comments offend you, but priests raping children has been common occurance for decades in the church.

You don't believe in birth control, so I guess abstinence is the only thing you can rely on. What a messed up religion that says you'll go to hell for using a rubber. But, molesting children - OK.

Sorry, I know someone that was molested by a priest in KC (been in the headlines for a couple of years). Your church and it's ideaologies is just messed up. The church is protecting these sickos while they preach to you what you should be doing. Hypocracy at its finest.

What you're expressing is what I've experienced with all Catholics (thank god my family left the catholic church because of corruption and that was decades ago). It's your way or the highway.

And abstinence til marriage is repression. What would you do if you save it that long, only to realize on your wedding night that neither of you know what you're doing and it sucks. Sad. I really feel sorry for those that think it's evil to enjoy your body. It's not a sin and you won't go to hell (because there is no such thing as hell, you're church made that up). You must play a lot of sports to hold back years of sexual desire.

I guess I'm a lesbian now since you reference the person doing my wife's hair. If you'd actually read my previous posts on this article, you'd know I'm female (especially since I talk about being pregnant).

here's a good read for you on what your church has done.

http://www.strike-the-root.com/columns/stevens/stevens1.html

verity 5 years, 6 months ago

What bothers me about Bristol Palin being an advocate against teen parenthood is that she is not representing at all the reality of what it is like for most teenagers who become parents. Lovely, beautiful girl with her lovely beautiful child---looks like paradise. Bristol doesn't have to worry about getting a job, paying rent, buying baby food, finding daycare, etc. and so forth. She has parents who can/will support her. Most teen mothers end up dropping out of high school and never going to college and often end up in the lower economic part of society. The grandmothers often end of taking care of the child just when they thought they were through with that part of their life. I am afraid that she makes it look too good and am wondering if this will have the opposite effect of what is intended.

waydownsouth 5 years, 6 months ago

I would love to strangle my neighbor. Now should i practice self control or just go with my feelings. Should i listen to someone who has and been down that route with a bad outcome or listen someone who has not but has alot to say on the topic. Choices Choices

waydownsouth 5 years, 6 months ago

Defender Sorry that went over your head. Here i'll break it down for you. There are choices in life you either use common sense or not. Using the excuse i can't help it its in my nature is a cop out for lack of self control. Murders use that all the time. Wanting to bring up bad upbringing to these are the times.

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