Pro-life protest / LJWorld.com

merrill 3 years, 11 months ago

When is the pro life movement going to recognize the value of sex education in public schools and realize the value of birth control in an all out effort to reduce the numbers of those who feel pressured to abort?

Abortion is a tough decision for women and emotionally charged so why not accept the realities of life instead of pretending that sexual relationships outside of marraige are not a part of life?

Males are also a huge part of this situation however females seem to get all of the publicity so again why not see all choices of birth control as part of a solution and make them available? to males as well?

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control-4211.htm

Humans are not going to not indulge in the joys of sexual encounters. This activity has likely been a part of life for hundreds if not thousands of years. It all seems to surface quite naturally.

Frankly if younger people were aware of the time,money and lifestyle re-arrangement that babies bring all might be a bit more careful. Obviously this should be part of sex education and sex education should be a part of open discussion rather than looked upon as some awful approach promoting sexual intercourse. http://www.plannedparenthood.org/teen-talk/

Pro sex education = pro choice = pro life = pro family = fewer abortions

Pro choice can mean which choice of birth control works for each individual = fewer abortions. It would be smarter to make that choice than not.

No one is against fewer abortions.

Mercy 3 years, 11 months ago

Planned Parenthood has been around for awhile. They get lots of tax payer money, but where are their results? There are how many STDs? There are how many abortions? Actually, the more sex education, the more contraception, the more abortions. Alan Guttmacher Institute reports that 54% of U.S. women who had an abortion in 2000 were using a method of birth control in the month they became pregnant.

Ms. Hoffman is correct. We will not be silenced. Sex education and contraception is not the answer.

God is the author of life. He created sex. We should live by his commandments. His first commandment - be fruitful and multiply. The answer is to save sex for marriage.

sustainabilitysister 3 years, 11 months ago

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/index.htm

Education = Empowerment

Stop OVERPOPULATION. The pro-life movement cares about the fetuses but not about these fetuses once their born. We have too many unwanted children in this world already. The last thing we need are more of them. Our track record is very poor currently, why would we want to impede such neglect and abuse on more children?

jaywalker 3 years, 11 months ago

"The answer is to save sex for marriage."

Great plan! Now back to the real world...........

jaywalker 3 years, 11 months ago

"The pro-life movement cares about the fetuses but not about these fetuses once their born."

Par for the course. One inflammatory, non-sensical assertion deserves another. You do realize, sister, that a solid response from a pro-life advocate to that ridiculous line might very well be, "Sooo, the pro-choice movement cares so much about the fetuses that they kill them before they're born"???!!!

honestone 3 years, 11 months ago

A message from MERCY to all of the high schoolers...God is the author of life. He created sex. We should live by his commandments. His first commandment - be fruitful and multiply.

mom_of_three 3 years, 11 months ago

sustainability has a point. Pro-life people want fewer abortions (who wouldn't), but it doesn't seem like anyone is addressing the problem of sex-ed and pregnancy prevention (besides abstinence - get real), or taking care of the child once it is born. Yes, there are couples who want to adopt an infant, but what about the kids in the system. Or if the woman decides to keep the child, who is going to make sure she and the baby have what they need to get by.

I am all for less abortions or none at all, but we need to address the other issues as well. And a woman still has a right to choose what to do with her own body.

Mercy 3 years, 11 months ago

Overpopulation is a myth. Education - http://www.demographicwinter.com/index.html

honestone - Don't forget about the part about saving sex for marriage.

Birthright and Pregnancy Advocacy Center are organizations that try to meet the needs of those who need help after they keep their babies. Pro-lifers do care about the women and their babies afterward.

jonas_opines 3 years, 11 months ago

"Planned Parenthood has been around for awhile. They get lots of tax payer money, but where are their results? There are how many STDs? There are how many abortions? Actually, the more sex education, the more contraception, the more abortions."

No idea about the rate of STDs, but most of the data I've seen on abortion shows that their rates are dropping over the last two decades. But of course, a factoid that inconvenient is probably just "propaganda."

sfjayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

Mercy, Did god tell you that his commandment was to be fruitful and multiply? Does he really speak to you? Did he appear to you in the form of a burning bush?

And how do you propose to keep people from having sex before marriage? Will you be forming a moralty police force like they have in several places in the middle east? What about married couples that want to have sex but do not want children - should that also be banned?

seriouscat 3 years, 11 months ago

"There are a number of liberals who are pro-life. They point out that the basic instinct of the left is to help the weak, and there is no one weaker than an unborn child. Many feel the most fundamental right is the right to life. The Pro-Life Gay Alliance of Gays and Lesbians issued a statement in 1991 that said, in part, “Like homophobia, abortion tries to get rid of persons who are considered undesirable.” Nat Hentoff, a Jewish atheist of great intelligence, has written extensively on the subject, comparing right-to-lifers to civil rights marchers who would not be deterred from their goal of ensuring equal rights for all. He writes of the slippery slope of abortion leading to eugenics and the danger involved in deciding which life is valuable and which is not. Atheists like Hentoff have claimed that abortion is not a religious issue, and that framing it as such allows people to use the separation of church and state argument to claim the right to have an abortion.

I mention all this because after the tragic murder of Dr. Tiller, the instinct can be to dismiss pro-lifers as deranged religious fanatics of a certain political stripe, when in fact this is not just a political issue for some, but a deep philosophical concern of many reasonable, intelligent, caring human beings who have come to believe that abortion is an affront to humanity.

I am pro-choice, but I find it hard to explain exactly why I am, because when I attempt to, I have to acknowledge the pro-life argument can be a sound one. We can’t just claim that because the matter is so deeply philosophical it should be left up to individuals, because societies are based on shared, deeply held philosophical values. Couldn’t valuing every potential life be one of them?

I find it easier to explain why I am pro-choice when I compare it to my anti-death penalty stance. It seems to me that when a society is so divided on issues that involve life and death matters, the state should leave the decision to the individual. When there is no consensus, when so many of us cannot agree on the matter, the state, which should represent shared values, should refrain from acting—should not deprive a person of life nor insist someone bring a life into this world. I am pro-choice because everyone’s situation is infinitely more complicated than those on the outside could imagine. Sometimes an unwanted pregnancy can cause the end of numerous relationships, can ruin lives, and possibly even cost lives. It seems to me the person who is best equipped to make that decision is the one who knows all the facts." — Elizabeth Fuller

I agree with Elizabeth.

jumpin_catfish 3 years, 11 months ago

I too agree with Elizabeth Fuller

beawolf 3 years, 11 months ago

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

"STD's, sex ed., contraception, taxpayer dollars, results? Baaaa! 50,000,000 abortions–there's your results! I'll say one thing for libs, noone on the planet can use propaganda to push an agenda like libs can–not even close."

Actually abortion numbers have been continually declining in the US since 1990 and are now at the lowest point since 1974.

Miracles 3 years, 11 months ago

This is what drives me crazy about the the pro-life movement- it isn't really about the babies with these people. It is about trying to push their God and religious agenda on other people.

SettingTheRecordStraight 3 years, 11 months ago

Thanks, Dianne.

kmat 3 years, 11 months ago

Mercy - I thought this country was founded on freedom of religion?

You may not like to believe it, but there are many of us that aren't Christian and don't believe in YOUR god or your bible. So please explain why if I live in a country that was founded on the principle of freedom of religion that myself and all other non-Christians should be forced to live our lives according to YOUR religious beliefs?

If you would like to try theocratic rule, go move to Iran or Saudi Arabia for a while and see how you like it.

Freedom is a wonderful thing.

All this being said, I am liberal, I am pro life and also pro choice. I myself do not like abortions, but believe that since we do live in a free country I can't dictate what another woman does with her body, especially based on my or anyone elses religious beliefs.

BrianR 3 years, 11 months ago

"God is the author of life. He created sex. We should live by his commandments. His first commandment - be fruitful and multiply. The answer is to save sex for marriage."

"Overpopulation is a myth"

Wack-a-doodle-doo

SettingTheRecordStraight 3 years, 11 months ago

Miracles,

No, it really is about the babies.

MeAndFannieLou 3 years, 11 months ago

If it were really about the embryos, the doctor killers would be adamant about shutting down fertility clinics, as those places create thousands of embryos that are never going to be implanted or carried to term, but are going to sit frozen on shelves forever.

It isn't about the embryos. It's about the vessel.

An embryo in a petri dish inspires no emotion whatsoever. An embryo in a woman's womb gets everyone all worked up.

The only reason the doctor killers want any legal status for the frozen embryos is to further their arguments in favor of forced motherhood.

sinverguenza 3 years, 11 months ago

MeAndFannieLou (Anonymous) says…

"It isn't about the embryos. It's about the vessel.

An embryo in a petri dish inspires no emotion whatsoever. An embryo in a woman's womb gets everyone all worked up."

Can this be disputed? Something to think about.

SouthernBelle 3 years, 11 months ago

This man dedicated his life to helping women - all women. The fact that this clinic is now closed is very sad indeed.

BigPrune 3 years, 11 months ago

I wonder how many babies this doctor helped out if the woman chose to keep the baby instead of aborting it? Same could be said about Planned Parenthood (or should it be called non-planned parenthood)? Zero?

Here's "pro-choice" in a nutshell: If someone were to abuse their child, who are we to say it is wrong, just as if someone were to kill their unborn offspring, who are we to say it is wrong?

sinverguenza 3 years, 11 months ago

BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

"I wonder how many babies this doctor helped out if the woman chose to keep the baby instead of aborting it?"

I nominate you for asinine comment of the day award. You think he turned away women seeking reproductive health care? That's just another pathetic attempt to smear the man's life work and all the good he did for so many women and families. Seriously pathetic.

cait48 3 years, 11 months ago

Stop cramming your G*d down my throat. 2.Take a look at this http://images.google.com/images?q=anencephaly&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi and this http://images.google.com/images?q=birth%20defects&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi oh and you might also want to look at this: http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/UVaHealth/peds_hrpregnant/autohub.cfm

And by the way Mr. Shewmon I honestly hope that reincarnation exists for one reason and one reason alone...someday you may get pregnant.

Leslie Swearingen 3 years, 11 months ago

It is not the woman's body, it is the baby's body which is a separate entity from the female that is carrying him/her until birth.

KansasVoter 3 years, 11 months ago

Dianne Hofmann is a lunatic. Not one single baby was ever killed at Dr. Tiller's clinic. Fetuses were aborted and women's lives were saved, but not one single person was ever killed in that clinic.

ksdivakat 3 years, 11 months ago

Just a quick question to all......how many of you actually visited Tiller's clinic, for services or for information??

motocross 3 years, 11 months ago

KansasVoter- You'll answer to God for that one day. Your comment makes me sick to my stomach.

Paul R. Getto 3 years, 11 months ago

"God is the author of life. He created sex." Every time I swear I won't get into this topic, something like this pops up. God is another human invention. Sex is part of biology and has been there for a long time, ever since animals became complex enough to swap genetic material. Injecting the skygods into a medical and legislative debate won't help, and it is the source of much of the problem. Abortions will never go away and are, in some cases, a necessary tragedy. Injecting the notion that we are 'special' is not helpful. We are the third chimp on this planet, not a creation of an ancient fiction generated mainly because we were afraid of death and needed something to explain this to each other. Peace..........

Mercy 3 years, 11 months ago

"Forty-six percent of women surveyed were not using a contraceptive method in the month in which they became pregnant, whereas 54% were using a method." It is wacko, but that's what the Guttmacher Institute reports. What's even wackier is that the government pays Planned Parenthood to give us these results.

Demographic Winter reports that "worldwide, birthrates have been halved in the past 50 years. There are now 59 nations, with 44% of the world's population, with below replacement fertility. Sometime in this century, the world's population will begin to decline. At a certain point, the decline will become rapid. We may even reach population free-fall in our lifetimes. No European nation has a replacement-level birthrate." Overpopulation is a myth. Maybe they could sell you that kind of nonsense in the 70's, but today there are countries that are paying women to have babies because the birthrate is so low.

Calliope877 3 years, 11 months ago

motocross (Anonymous) says…

KansasVoter- You'll answer to God for that one day. Your comment makes me sick to my stomach.

Judge not, lest you be judged.

KansasVoter 3 years, 11 months ago

Calliope877 (Anonymous) says… "Judge not, lest you be judged."

Oh, come on. You don't expect cristofacists to actually know what's in the bible, do you? They just pick and choose the parts that they like and ignore the rest.

SouthernBelle 3 years, 11 months ago

motocross (Anonymous) says…

KansasVoter- You'll answer to God for that one day. Your comment makes me sick to my stomach.

. you are kidding, right?

KansasVoter 3 years, 11 months ago

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says… "If pro-abortion extremists want a fair debate, should they be calling pro-lifers extremists?"

Are you serious? Why not just ask "Why are those @$$holes calling us bad names?" or "Why did that person who I hit hit me back?"

dweezil222 3 years, 11 months ago

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

STD's, sex ed., contraception, taxpayer dollars, results? Baaaa! 50,000,000 abortions–there's your results! I'll say one thing for libs, noone on the planet can use propaganda to push an agenda like libs can–not even close.

=====================================

And I suppose you and your conservative buddies never play the propaganda game? The Bush administration got pretty good at it. And it seems to me that the ones putting up all the rhetoric-filled billboards are the anti-abortion crowd.

I'd like to further a point I made on one of the other numerous abortion-related threads of late. Abortion is legal, whether the anti-choice movement wishes it to be or not. I asked several days ago (to a point I don't believe anyone ever responded) how some of the conservatives could decry abortion saying "murder is murder" and yet support the military. If "murder is murder," as I've heard some of you state repeatedly, then killing in war is just as wrong. Killing in one's own defense is just as wrong. The point I'm getting at is that while murder may be murder, the law has recognized that not every killing is, in fact, a murder. That we can draw these distinctions even in instances where clearly a "life" has been ended means that where the law does not regard "life" before birth, to equate abortion with murder is nothing more than empty rhetoric, without any legal reality whatsoever. All it is is an appeal to emotion rather than reason, which anyone who has ever taken a logic course will tell you is one of the principal fallacies.

BrianR 3 years, 11 months ago

Demographic Winter is a religious right propaganda piece to shove American fetus fetishism and the anti-choice message down the throats of Europeans by claiming the slow demise of western civilization. What a load of xenophobic crap.

The babies that Demographic Winter is so concerned about are the white babies. What’s the matter, too many of THEM being born and not enough of US being born? Why does there have to be more people anyway? Who is the winner here?

Populations change, demographics change. Perhaps in a few hundred years there won’t be any more white people? Or black people. The people of the Earth will be less black and white just like the world they live in.

Save the Picts

BabyBear 3 years, 11 months ago

Put your money where your mouth is. If you are pro life then get your ass to an adoption agency! Those children need help because the mother didnt want the kid, but decided to have it anyway, and now its doomed to a life with 50 other children that will never have a loving family. All because the mom was "pro-life" but unwilling to do the work.

CHANDLER007 3 years, 11 months ago

Pro-Choice does not equal Pro-Abortion. Try to get that straight in your heads. Pro-Life positions baffle me to an extent, as most Pro-Lifers I've met and those on these treads appear to be ok with wars and the death penalty. How is that "Pro-Life"? Just curious.

Satirical 3 years, 11 months ago

This topic is getting old. Most of the pro-choicers are using the same ridiculous attacks and the same unreasoned arguments.

Only decent post of the day: SeriousCat at 9:09.

If anyone want to have a discussion about the topics in this post then I will be happy to oblige. Otherwise, it isn't worth my time to respond to the same ignorant comments.

sustainabilitysister 3 years, 11 months ago

We already have a HUGE problem on our hands. Too many babies and not enough good homes. How many kids have you adopted pro-lifers? Apparently not enough because there are millions of kids out there needing homes NOW and that's with abortion being legal.

Jaylee 3 years, 11 months ago

"babies were first killed by inserting a long needle into the mother’s abdomen and injecting poison into the baby’s heart"

I don't see how the method, no matter how gruesome, changes the fact that this is a woman with a fetus inside her's choice.

BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

"Here's “pro-choice” in a nutshell: If someone were to abuse their child, who are we to say it is wrong, just as if someone were to kill their unborn offspring, who are we to say it is wrong?"

Wow, that is a seriously bonkers generalization!!! Since when did child abuse become synonymous with a woman's choice to birth a child?

CHANDLER007 (Anonymous) says…

"Pro-Choice does not equal Pro-Abortion. Try to get that straight in your heads. "

Here, here!

Agnostick 3 years, 11 months ago

Mercy (Anonymous) says…

“Maybe they could sell you that kind of nonsense in the 70's, but today there are countries that are paying women to have babies because the birthrate is so low."

The United States has been doing this for decades, paying women to have babies.

It's called "welfare."

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com

dweezil222 3 years, 11 months ago

motocross (Anonymous) says…

KansasVoter- You'll answer to God for that one day. Your comment makes me sick to my stomach.

======================================

"Get a clue, little shrew Oh yeah, oh yeah Jesus thinks you're a jerk." - Frank Zappa

Jaylee 3 years, 11 months ago

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-safe-haven-baby-0510.artmay10,0,3796610.story

kinda made me well up a little.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/15918173/52809-Newborn-Safe-Haven-Act-2009-TestimonyRoque-Gerald-FINAL

Dumpster babies dying is way more sad to me than a mother making a choice before the birth occurs.

I was trying to find an article I saw a couple months ago that basically showed people leaving up to teenager aged children off at certain sites, but couldn't.

I was adopted, but I was lucky.

Jaylee 3 years, 11 months ago

kind of a low blow there, agnostick. way to bring a completely different potential argument into play though, i guess?

Agnostick 3 years, 11 months ago

Absolutely not, Jaylee. Try rubbing two or three brain cells together, and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Heck, if the wind's blowing from the right direction, you might even catch a whiff of the irony...

notajayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

edjayhawk (Anonymous) says…

"To all pro-lifers: Are you prepared to adopt an unwanted child?"

Not picking on you per se, edj, several posters made similar arguments but yours was the most concise. But the problem with that logic is that it's the same as saying if you oppose euthanasia, then you must empty out the nursing homes and take them into your own homes.

This is a complicated issue, obviously, one that unfortunately is driven more by emotion than logic (and likely always will be). Rhetoric like that (being used by both sides) does nothing to help the issue.

dweezil222 3 years, 11 months ago

notajayhawk (Anonymous) says…

edjayhawk (Anonymous) says…

“To all pro-lifers: Are you prepared to adopt an unwanted child?”

Not picking on you per se, edj, several posters made similar arguments but yours was the most concise. But the problem with that logic is that it's the same as saying if you oppose euthanasia, then you must empty out the nursing homes and take them into your own homes.

This is a complicated issue, obviously, one that unfortunately is driven more by emotion than logic (and likely always will be). Rhetoric like that (being used by both sides) does nothing to help the issue.

====================================

But in order to provide orphanages for all of those unwanted babies, society will have to be prepared to pay for that in increased taxes.

If nothing else, perhaps an economic argument could be made here: Rather than externalizing the costs of raising the child, abortion "internalizes" the cost of dealing with an unwanted pregnancy to the mother.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 3 years, 11 months ago

Irish (Irish Swearingen) says…

"It is not the woman's body, it is the baby's body which is a separate entity from the female that is carrying him/her until birth."

Um, I think you got that backwards. No wonder you are confused about the issue.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 3 years, 11 months ago

motocross (Anonymous) says…

"KansasVoter- You'll answer to God for that one day. Your comment makes me sick to my stomach."

Morning sickness? Don't worry, it will go away eventually.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 3 years, 11 months ago

Tom says...

"ProKanDo, the shadowy donation front next door to his “women's health clinic” that helped Tiller keep his political party in power in Kansas (get it: ProKanDo). I particulary like the macabre mock 'funerals' story…..OH! and the other horrificly macabre one where he mistakenly ran the needle into the wrong spot in a little girl's head."

First, what about the place next door on the other side?

Second, you must really enjoy horror movies. Just sayin'

a_flock_of_jayhawks 3 years, 11 months ago

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

"So far though, the pro-abortion side is more extreme by about 49,999,998 or so humans."

Wow, so "extreme" that it's legal, yet the pro-life extremists resort to subversive tactics? If the shoe fits...

SouthernBelle 3 years, 11 months ago

lol

SouthernBelle 3 years, 11 months ago

sorry. that laugh was for:

a_flock_of_jayhawks (Anonymous) says…

motocross (Anonymous) says…

“KansasVoter- You'll answer to God for that one day. Your comment makes me sick to my stomach.”

Morning sickness? Don't worry, it will go away eventually.

That was a good one and made me laugh.

Leslie Swearingen 3 years, 11 months ago

“It is not the woman's body, it is the baby's body which is a separate entity from the female that is carrying him/her until birth.” Sorry, no I don't think that is backwards. The baby is in the womb of the mother until the baby is born. They are two separate bodies connected by an umbilical cord. I don't understand the extreme hatred some have for Christians. I can't be the only Christian who really doesn't care how someone chooses to live their own life. I would not know you. But, then you probably wouldn't want to know me. Why should we?

a_flock_of_jayhawks 3 years, 11 months ago

Irish, a fetus (you referred to as a baby's body) is not a separate entity while in the mother's womb. Is the pancreas a "separate entity"? The heart? Brain? Unless some exotic medical science is involved, the fetus ceases to exist without the mother, but not vice-versa. Once born, the baby (no longer a fetus) is now a separate entity.

If you want to understand the hatred you refer to, try comprehending the fact that they are trying to make very personal decisions for women that they do not know and will not be responsible for after their decision is exacted.

Mercy 3 years, 11 months ago

edjayhawk,

Good question. Indeed there are multiple facets to this issue. Yes, there are people ready to adopt these as you call them, "unwanted or neglected" children. Our society (government, private sector,,) needs to do more to support and encourage this. Our society should also encourage each of us to be responsible for our actions. Once society supports the separation of sexual intercourse from the confines of marriage between one man and one woman and it's natural end (the potential for new life) all kinds of problems arise as we see today. This separation always results in someone getting hurt. The couple, the child as you pointed out (by either being born and being neglected or just being killed outright), marriages are hurt because the spouses begin to look at each other as objects to use as opposed to a person to love and make a total, faithful and lifetime gift of themselves to. Society is hurt by all of this when it has to deal with all of the bad affects of this separation such has the increase in single parent homes created by divorce, or having children outside of marriage.

So we need to promote a society that looks at having sex within the confines of marriage where if understood properly by the couple unites them not only physically but spiritually. A society that promotes and finds ways to strengthen marriages will help reduce the occurrences of having "unwanted or neglected" children and in the cases where this arises, there are people ready to adopt them.

Killing the innocent child does not solve the problem. It only creates more problems.

dweezil222 3 years, 11 months ago

Irish, I want to say (since some of my comments on this thread and others could be construed that way) that I don't hate Christians. Most Christians are tolerable. What I hate are 1) those who refuse outright to acknowledge that there is an alternative point of view and 2) those who attempt to railroad their faith down my throat after I've made it plain that I have no interest in hearing it, or those who think that some facet of religious morality not shared by society at large has to be imposed upon everyone. Even the first are sort of tolerable as long as they keep to themselves. The way I consider it, your freedom of religion ends where my right to be free from religion if I choose to do so begins. My issue is not with most Christians who believe what they believe and go about their business, as most do.

notjustastudent 3 years, 11 months ago

Something to mention- it's been stated that 54% of women were using a form of birth control when they got pregnant (and then had an abortion). I couldn't find the right statistic, because they were all specific to certain forms, but most women, and more importantly, most men, do not know how to use them properly. This makes them a hell of a lot less effective (and nof form is 100% effective to begin with).

I really hate it when people dog on Planned Parenthood. They have been a life saver for me, and I mean that quite literally. I suffer from a few different reproductive issues (none of which the men will understand, so I won't even bother), and birthcontrol is one way to keep myself healthy and in balance. I couldn't afford health insurance for five years, but I was always able to afford what I needed from Planned Parenthood.

Putting in my two sense on the save sex before marriage "education"- as a Catholic school graduate (from kindy to senior year in highschool) I can tell you, it doesn't work (for everybody at least). Luckily, our school administrators knew this. What did work for me was in seventh grade when they made us present STDs to the rest of the class. Kinda grossed me out. I was also suprised upon reaching college that I knew far more about sex, STDs, birth control and condoms than any of the rest of the people living on my floor at the dorm.

notajayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

"Maybe those of us who hate christians have some valid reasons for feeling that way. Step back and look at the actions of far too many of those so-called christians. Like the one who murdered Tiller and those who supported and praised the act."

So you hate Christians because of what some Christians have done. Brilliant. I suppose it escaped your notice that Dr. Tiller was shot while serving as an usher in a Lutheran church.

dweezil222 3 years, 11 months ago

Saw this as I was checking my e-mail

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090610/ap_on_re_us/us_abortion_shooting

Katara 3 years, 11 months ago

BigPrune (Anonymous) says…

I wonder how many babies this doctor helped out if the woman chose to keep the baby instead of aborting it? Same could be said about Planned Parenthood (or should it be called non-planned parenthood)? Zero?

Here's “pro-choice” in a nutshell: If someone were to abuse their child, who are we to say it is wrong, just as if someone were to kill their unborn offspring, who are we to say it is wrong? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dr. Tiller help make arrangements for adoption for women who went to his clinic.

"George Tiller planned to become a much lower-profile doctor — a dermatologist, in fact.

Instead, he became a Wichita late-term abortion doctor who enraged many conservatives nationwide. Yet he registered for decades as a Republican.

And he provided adoptions, not just abortions, to some women with unwanted pregnancies. But he only gave the babies to families who supported abortion rights." http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/1237637.html

Sorry to burst your bubble.

storm 3 years, 11 months ago

This letter sounds angry and menacing. Roeder had issues but a lunatic he is not. He is just another angry anti-choicer like the author of this letter.

jaywalker 3 years, 11 months ago

From arguably the "poorest" regular poster: "Maybe those of us who hate christians have some valid reasons for feeling that way"

Another one for the collection: "Valid reasons to hate". Excellent.

Calliope877 3 years, 11 months ago

Christ called, and he wants all the pseudo-Christians (aka fanatical self-righteous, judgemental, hypocritical nimrods) to stop f***ing up his religion...

TacoBob 3 years, 11 months ago

Beo - why do you hate Christians so much? Why do you hate them at all?

Do you hate extremists - killers - of all affilations. or do you save your hatred for just the mentally disturbed that somehow tie themselves to acting in the name of Christianity when most sane people, Christian or otherwise denouce them?

Pretty strong words earlier in this thread.

Do you hate Muslims because Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad killed a soldier and wounded another? If not, why not? Same type of nut job claiming affliation with a religion.

notajayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says…

"Maybe Dr Tiller should have believed as I do."

Maybe you should have the compassion and the guts to believe in anything, other than hatred, with a tenth as much conviction as Dr. Tiller did, schmuck.

"Actually I think he is a typical lunatic anti-abortion nut, like far too many others are. They just haven't murdered anyone yet!"

When Mr. Roeder was a child as young as BeO apparently is, he probably sounded a lot like that - finding reasons to hate an entire group of people, justifying it with his own little imagination. When BeO hits his fifties we'll probably be reading something similar about him. Probably won't be drawing as much comment, though, as it's doubtful BeO could or ever will do a dmned thing anyone would give a crp about.

jaywalker 3 years, 11 months ago

"why not work on changing the murderers and nutcases so there will be no problem in the future?"

Another plum of an idea. Why didn't anyone else 'think' of that? All we all need is someone like porchperson to point them (murderers and nutcases) out to us. If we would just "work on changing" the murderers and nutcases, well...heck, no problems in the future, obviously. It's so simple, maybe we need a refresher course! Now we're gonna need some 30 weight oil and some ball bearings. And I'm gonna need about 10 gallons of Prestone. No. NO! Make that Quaker State........

notajayhawk 3 years, 11 months ago

It's simple, jaywalker; all we need is for porchie to tell us how he deals with the shame of having nutcases and extremists in his bathroom mirror.

motocross 3 years, 11 months ago

KANSASVOTER-

You say we pick and choose in the Bible??? You say that I must not judge? READ AGAIN! We have authority to righteous judgement. Read the NEW TESTAMENT sometime. :) Wake up... One day you'll see the truth, I just hope it's not too late.

KatWrangler 3 years, 11 months ago

Quote from Mercy..

Ms. Hoffman is correct. We will not be silenced. Sex education and contraception is not the answer.

Whats the answer then? Castrate all males at birth?

JonHudson 3 years, 11 months ago

STOP! I think there is another important issue here. America, regardless of our stance on family planning and abortion, must hold the pro-life movement's feet to the fire. They can say they do not condone or promote violence as the asnwer to this issue but the movement's members painted a target on George Tiller and others and this is not the first time someone the movement singled out was killed by an extremist. I do not say the issue is a no brainer for either side's stance but Pro-life MUST stop singling out individuals. To do so is asking for the same outcome to be repeated. As for lebeling extremists "nut cases" that also must stop. Abortion rights supporters are not baby killers and pro-lifers are not nut cases. These polemics will only lead to more killing. Follow our new president's lead and reachout to the opposition. That is how agreements are reached.

9070811 3 years, 11 months ago

No one is pro-abortion.

motocross 3 years, 11 months ago

Yeah, what Jon said. Follow our amazing president and be a scuzzy chicago political cheat. Then, we'll be more and more like the movie, "Idiocracy" in no time!

9070811 3 years, 11 months ago

"Planned Parenthood has been around for awhile. They get lots of tax payer money, but where are their results? There are how many STDs? There are how many abortions? Actually, the more sex education, the more contraception, the more abortions. Alan Guttmacher Institute reports that 54% of U.S. women who had an abortion in 2000 were using a method of birth control in the month they became pregnant."

This means that those 54% had failed birth control methods. Which means that they tried to be preventative. So therefor they never intended to be pregnant. Which is why they chose to terminate a pregnancy.

However, claiming that sex education doesn't work is the same as pointing out abstinence only education doesn't work. Supporting abstinence only is absolutely insane because we're all going to have sex someday! Well, maybe a few will be unlucky.

We can't deprive those around us from the necessary health care education. A vagina, uterus, penis and testes are organs, just like our hearts, brains, and skin. We are educated about heart problems, brain defects, and skin cancer. Just because a vagina, uterus, penis and testes have the capabilities to create an embryo doesn't mean we shouldn't learn about them. When we learn about our reproductive parts, we learn about the diseases that may arise, babies, and a vast number of other health care concerns.

Making abortions illegal will make a lot of people into parents who never wanted to be a parents, cram the social services networks, and overwhelm adoption agencies that already have a hard time finding homes for the living. It has been increasingly more difficult for child to be adopted with the increased usage of alternative fertilization methods.

Perhaps everyone should watch "Blue Lagoon" starring Brooke Shields. You will see that sex is natural and that humans are going to discover it, with or without sexual and reproductive education.

dweezil222 3 years, 11 months ago

Motocross, given some of your comments, I'd say the process has already begun.

sinverguenza 3 years, 11 months ago

Doh! I was just about to say the same thing, dweezil!

Jaylee 3 years, 11 months ago

Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

“So far though, the pro-abortion side"

I don't know any people that are pro-abortion? I know people who are pro-choice, though.

motocross (Anonymous) says…

"kansasvoter-

"You say we pick and choose in the Bible??? You say that I must not judge? read again! We have authority to righteous judgement. Read the new testament sometime. :) Wake up… One day you'll see the truth, I just hope it's not too late."

I would be interested if you could find that passage for me. VERY INTERESTED actually, because to the best of my understanding (and I claim to be no expert) God is the only one who can pass judgement. Peter at the pearly gates?... not an expert, though.

Are you sure you're reading to Bible and not the book of Mormon or something? I think Mormons can claim visions from God to do basically anything, including but not limited to murder.

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/21756/antonie-dixon-god-told-me-to-behead-women

maffupps 3 years, 11 months ago

"9070811 (Anonymous) says…

Perhaps everyone should watch “Blue Lagoon” starring Brooke Shields. You will see that sex is natural and that humans are going to discover it, with or without sexual and reproductive education."

Post of the century.

compmd 3 years, 11 months ago

Pro-lifers wanting to put their religious law above the law of the country. Ah, the Amercian Taliban.

You know, just for fun, I'm going to have an anti-life protest. It will be sponsored by the Black Hole Awareness Society.

Left_handed 3 years, 11 months ago

compmd

How is a 'pro-lifer' wanting what he believes to be law of the land any different than you wanting your view to be the law of the land? Is your idea somehow better because you claim there is no religious influence on it? I would say that is a bigoted and intolerant position.

Kathy Getto 3 years, 11 months ago

Left_handed (Anonymous) says…

compmd

How is a 'pro-lifer' wanting what he believes to be law of the land any different than you wanting your view to be the law of the land? Is your idea somehow better because you claim there is no religious influence on it? I would say that is a bigoted and intolerant position.

Hate to break it to you, left_handed, pro-choice IS the law of the land.

disgustedagain 3 years, 11 months ago

Judging by most of the pro-life comments here, Elizabeth Fuller's beliefs were much more evolved morally and intellectually than those of the average pro-lifer. It's useless to debate with people who are all about soundbites and emotional venom. Luckily, the majority of Americans believe in freedom of choice as well as freedom of religion. Morality can't be legislated and religious beliefs enforced by violence are counterproductive bigotry.

Pro-life protest

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I don't know any people that are pro-abortion? I know people who are pro-choice, though.

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