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Archive for Wednesday, August 5, 2009

Homeless shelter director hopes to have new site on East 23rd Street within a year

The building that formerly housed Lone Steer BBQ and Don’s Steakhouse was previously proposed as a site for the Lawrence Community Shelter.

The building that formerly housed Lone Steer BBQ and Don’s Steakhouse was previously proposed as a site for the Lawrence Community Shelter.

August 5, 2009

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Shelter move formally announced

Shelter leaders formally announced they have signed a contract to move forward with relocating the homeless shelter. Don's Steakhouse will become the site of a new shelter which will hold as many as 100 homeless people. The project is expected to cost about $3 million. Enlarge video

If Loring Henderson has his way, the city’s homeless shelter will move out of downtown Lawrence and into a new facility in eastern Lawrence in just one year’s time.

The Lawrence Community Shelter director’s goal may be an overly ambitious one, as a lot has to happen before then, including gaining approval from the city, tearing down one building, constructing a new one and raising millions of dollars for the project.

Henderson was optimistic that it all might happen that quickly, though, after officially announcing on Wednesday that the shelter has entered into a contract to purchase the former Don’s Steakhouse building at 2176 E. 23rd St.

The announcement, which came during a news conference, confirmed reports that had surfaced Monday indicating the shelter was working on a deal to purchase the building for a new shelter site.

Henderson said the former steakhouse building would be razed and a new building erected in its place, with a possible price tag of up to $3 million, though he was hopeful the project would cost less.

“The purchase of new property has been long overdue to Lawrence,” Henderson said in a news release. “We have spent several years working with residents, city officials and business owners to come to a solution for relocating the shelter.”

The shelter has been looking for a new permanent location for two years. The current shelter, at 10th and Kentucky streets, lacks space to house the city’s homeless population. It has been turning people away after The Salvation Army closed its 42-bed homeless shelter at 10th and New Hampshire streets earlier this summer.

On Tuesday, Lawrence city commissioners agreed to increase the overnight occupancy limit at the current shelter to 76 people, up from 31, from October through March. From April through September, the overnight occupancy will be capped at 53 people, while the shelter pursues a new permanent facility.

Shelter leaders said they entered into an agreement on July 31 with the owners of the steakhouse property. While the new site has been met with opposition from at least one neighboring business, Henderson said all of the 60 sites that shelter leaders have looked at were vulnerable to resistance and that this was as good as it was going to get.

“(The site) is well buffered from residential areas, but remains close to many current services that the homeless often need,” said Don Huggins, president of the shelter’s board of directors.

Though sketchy, the plan is to build a shelter that can house 100 people comfortably, Henderson said. The building will also increase space for the shelter’s programs and add a medical clinic that will be staffed by students and instructors from Baker University.

Henderson said now that the shelter had identified a new site, it would immediately begin working to pass inspections, to design the building, and to prepare a fundraising campaign for the project.

“We are confident that this location will benefit the community,” Henderson said.

Comments

mr_fixit 5 years, 4 months ago

Guess I have a year to sell my house. It may be hard to believe, but there are "nice" neighborhoods in East Lawrence. Wonder how long they will last now...

d_prowess 5 years, 4 months ago

Why is it assumed that this will ruin any neighborhoods around it? Right now the shelter is located about a block or two from some very nice homes on Tennessee and they all seem to have held their value.

Onlyifitsadryshelter 5 years, 4 months ago

This is only going to be welcome at that site if it is a dry shelter. If it is serving families and persons who are down on their luck and are making steps to create a better life then I say go for it! There are a lot of homeless people who are simply being pushed out of housing because of the economy or hard personal times. By the Grace of God I am not currently homeless - although I have been close before - as are most people in this recession. One paycheck away! HOWEVER - as a person who works very close to this proposed new site, I am very concerned about the atmosphere a wet shelter will create.

There are several businesses located near without night time traffic. And several businesses where people are leaving after dark by themselves. Lots of places in the area for people to hide - including the fair grounds. I've seen a lot of posts regarding the neighborhoods and surrounding parks and I completely agree! It could provide an element of danger that East Lawrence does not want.

How many times have you driven by the current shelter and seen cops everywhere? Because it seems like everytime I go by they are there. That all being said - I would welcome that spot to a shelter if it was truly serving the community. But if its purpose is just to give a place for users and addicts to crash for the night then NO WET SHELTER IN LAWRENCE AT ALL! There is no place in this town, no neighborhood in this town, who wants to add that element!

ONLY IF ITS A DRY SHELTER!!!!!!!!!!!!

canusayduh 5 years, 4 months ago

Nothing says, "Welcome to Lawrence" like a bunch of homeless people walking the highway.

blindrabbit 5 years, 4 months ago

Hopefully, this energy and inertia robbing issue will be alleviated in the future. Although I'm sure Mr. Henderson and the other staff at the 10th Street location have tried to do a good job with a really tough situation, it is amazing to me that (he and others) have not done a better job at being a good neighbor to the greater community. The continual panhandling, loitering and intimidation that his clients have imposed on a caring community is not satisfactory. Is there a "good neighbor" educational aspect as part of the services the shelter provides???

Additionally, while Lawrence has prooven it's hospitality to those that truly need help, it is also appearant that we are a magnet to many lackys and hanger-ons that are on for the ride.

KEITHMILES05 5 years, 4 months ago

Lawrence is so hung up on "doing good for the homeless" instead of helping them get training and jobs. Typical.

mom_of_three 5 years, 4 months ago

"well-buffered" from residential areas??? hhmm, no, don't think so.
I am not as worried about the effects on my neighborhood as much as some intoxicated or high homeless person walking onto the highway, and getting hit or causing a wreck. Speed in that area is 65, I believe.

somedude20 5 years, 4 months ago

Why do they need another all-new building?

roggy 5 years, 4 months ago

I never knew much about the homeless people and honestly didn't want to. I, like many of you, were disgusted by many that I had seen around town. After a recent visit to the shelter for their evening meal and seeing the facility, it totally changed my perception. There are a lot of positive steps being taken to help people get off the street. That being said, there are many people that will never be able to hold a job. I also felt like a previous poster that drunks should not be allowed in. I'm not sure where I wanted them to go - sleeping in doorways, alleys, etc. is way more disgusting to me.
Loring Henderson is one of the most amazing people I have ever met and truly an angel on earth.

bb837988 5 years, 4 months ago

“(The site) is well buffered from residential areas, but remains close to many current services that the homeless often need,” said Don Huggins, president of the shelter’s board of directors.

What about the area between the shelter and those services? And what services is this location close to? Define close for me.

Is it the SRS offices? There seems to be plenty of space between Haskell and the offices south of 19th Street. How about the area by Health Care Access? There is a bus route that goes directly in front of Health Care Access. Is Independence Inc on of the services? It would only be about a block away instead of a walk down 23rd or through a residential area.

Is one of the services the LINK food program? Seems like a long walk to me. Or will the shelter be providing food during the day?

The site is well buffered only if the residents stay at the site. Their only choice for any services is going to require a bus ride or a long walk. I guess that might increase the T's ridership.

Will the shelter have more space for families? How will that impact the area schools - Kennedy and Prairie Park?

An expanded shelter raises a lot of questions and I would like to know the answers. Homelessness is a fact and for many reasons. The issues surrounding it are grounds for a never ending discussion. Very few people would welcome a shelter in their neighborhood but the need is there. But what are the odds that a location in West Lawrence would ever be chosen?

Jeanette Kekahbah 5 years, 4 months ago

Henderson, if this is "as good as it gets" maybe you're not the right person to be making the decisions here.

5 years, 4 months ago

  1. 3 million dollar building, you have got to be kidding me! Where in the heck does Loring think he is going to raise that kind of money?

  2. According to Google Maps this building is 0.8 miles to Kennedy Elementary school and 1.0 miles to Prairie Park Elementary. That's if you take the driving route, less if you go on foot thru the back way. What kind of security is Loring going to provide to ensure that his "client" stay on his property and away from the neighborhood children?

  3. "all of the 60 sites that shelter leaders have looked at were vulnerable to resistance" You know, I've lived off my own earnings for more years than I've been legally required to. I've worked my butt off in this life to provide a safe sanctuary for my family and I'm hard pressed to think that the homeless I've seen in Lawrence attempt the same. I think Mr Henderson would do himself a favor if he remembered that his clients depend on and impose on the rest of us, not the other way around.

pace 5 years, 4 months ago

Why did I think they would remodel the building and erect a privacy fence. What a disappointment.

Master_Chief 5 years, 4 months ago

Well that's really nice...real nice of "us" to provide so well for these folks. Perhaps Lawrence can become a mecca for drunk/drugged bums. I'll be providing a load of saltpeter if they come by my place.

Frightwig 5 years, 4 months ago

If the nearest schools are nearly a mile away then this is certainly the best location. The previously proposed locations in east Lawrence were only two blocks away from schools. Also, it appears that the nearest residence is nearly a half mile away, which is great. The other proposed locations had residences right across the street.

Can somebody post a list of the shelter rules and regulations? I'm wondering what kind of personal accountability its residents are expected to maintain, particularly in regards to drug and alcohol use.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

There are no rules it is a wet shelter.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 4 months ago

This is a phobia. There is no reason to think that homeless people are going to go after children. They are not going to walk down the highway. This is fear mongering pure and simple. People making cheap jokes at the expense of someone else. This sounds like a good idea to me. One way to help the homeless is to give them a sense of self. Those at the shelter have been beaten down all their lives. If they have a nice place to stay and they are treated with respect, then then will learn to respect themselves, and then and only then, will their lives change for the better. I give thanks to all those working, and doing volunteer work, at the shelter.

normal_entire_route 5 years, 4 months ago

(Irish, I have agreed and empathized with all your points over the last week on this. Thank you for your perspective.)

The plans presented here seem misguided. Tearing down existing buildings is almost always a dumb idea. Its not sustainable, nor responsible. Its capricious and does nothing to help sell this idea.

An agency helping the homeless, asking for monetary assistance from the community, needs to understand how their approach needs to fit in to the social and monetary context of the city.

Bad idea to go for 3 mil. Lose credibility and eventually make the whole honorable job much, much harder...

januarygirl 5 years, 4 months ago

I have read most of the comments placed, i cannot under- stand how the city commission can think that this is a good location for any kind of shelter. i hope that the city is pre-pared to accept responseability if some of the people are injured or killed on K-10. I THINK THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME VERY WISE AND GOOD PLACES SUGGESTED BY SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GIVEN THIS ALOT OF THOUGHT. I feel you all can do better than this in a choice of llocation. people need help, but they don't need to be placed in a worse situation. please think harder about what you are proposing. I think if you go through with this location, the money spent will be wasted , when it could have gone to a more appropriate location , like the food for less or some other places mentioned.

mr_fixit 5 years, 4 months ago

I am not willing to bet my kids on this... "This is a phobia. There is no reason to think that homeless people are going to go after children."

Having spoken with several officers of the law, it is reasonable to be a bit homelessphobic. Walk down the alley where the current shelter is tonight and let us know how safe you felt....

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

I wonder what legal responsiblity the city would have if a homeless person was mowed over by a speeding vehicle.

been_there 5 years, 4 months ago

Sorry Irish but I do know of registered sex offenders that have frequented the drop-in shelter. If we are building a new building, put it over by the law enforcement center across the highway and that way the police can keep an eye on them.

KUFAN98 5 years, 4 months ago

I work on Mass Street and live in East Lawrence. I can't walk down mass street during the day without getting asked for something by a homeless person. If this $3 Million dollar shelter does get built, they better make it $2.9 million dollar Palace and save $100,000 for a limo service to take the homeless to and from Mass Street so they can continue getting some money from people and keep dumpster-diving for treasures.

East Lawrence does not have a population that can help these people out the way Mass Street does. Not to mention this will prevent any future business growth on the East side of town.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Rednecks, rednecks Economic racist The sad part is most of you don't even realize it. Who else do you not want in this town? Different cultures Religions,sexual preferences. Lawrence touts its self as such a progressive place. Really sad to see most people have no idea they are just the same old types of rednecks Kansas, and other state in this area are known for.

50YearResident 5 years, 4 months ago

I'm sure Hilda will caugh up at least $1 Million.

jayhawk2685 5 years, 4 months ago

I for one am very apposed to this site. for the main reason of the first impression visitors to the city will when entereing from K-10. i dont know if you have driven by the current shelter but it is rather unsightly having 10- 20 people hanging out in front drinking. not too mention hanging around on other peoples property. I think that property could be better used for something else

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

I know people are not hanging around in front of the 10th street shelter. If, and when that ever happened that person drinking on property would not be allowed on the shelter property for at least a month. So keep on spouting thing you have no idea about Redneck. I mean jayhawk.

blindrabbit 5 years, 4 months ago

Just wondering where the Board of Directors members live. I know some live West of Iowa St., any East of Barker St.???

applefarmer 5 years, 4 months ago

As a former employee of a Mass. street Bus. I can tell you first hand of the panhandlers and drunks passing out in the store. The young female clerks working and being scared by the comments made by some of these people. I have heard from others who have been downtown and yelled at for not giving money to them. So as a east Lawrence resident I say NO to the shelter.

bearded_gnome 5 years, 4 months ago

it is Henderson's own attitude problem as exemplified in his quote "best it gets," that is why there is opposition everywhere to this. as I'm typing, pd officers are en route to club 2-1-4 for report of an assault, one or more involved are drunk/under the influence.

the entire concept for the drunken/druggy shelter is flawed, is it any wonder there's opposition everywhere?!?


apparently Fallingwhilereading spent most of the day out scalping white people. he/she/it has no good argument in favor of the drunken/druggy shelter, so merely resorts to smears. go ahead and call me a redneck too! LOL! I have redneck heritage, but am not one, and between my wife and I, we fit about five of your liberal hyphenated american categories. LOL.


East Lawrence has some very fine neighborhoods, and great people. put the drunken/druggy shelter out there, yes some of them will get hit by traffic. many will filter through the streets and alleys of east lawrence. take down that building? stupid idea. if you build a new one, you gonna put the bovine on top of the new one? "bum steer flophouse" on the sign.

blindrabbit 5 years, 4 months ago

I know a couple of years ago Lawrence officials looked into the concept that is being done in Topeka, but rejected it. Hard to believe, but I hear Topeka has a very effective program that addresses a "road to recovery" approach versus the "do gooder" warehousing approach that Loring, Hilda and the Lawrence Commissioners favor.

blindrabbit 5 years, 4 months ago

I'm offended, I consider myself to be progressive and maybe a "liberal" to some, but the approach Lawrence has taken to the "homeless issue" is what gives us a bad name to the right-wing, dittohead, whacked-out Repubs. And in this particular case I don't blame them for doing so.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

You proved my point, beard-gnome. Your comment about scalping is really racist in itself.

Leslie Swearingen 5 years, 4 months ago

Drunks and panhandlers passing out in the store? And, why were they let in the store in the first place? Doesn't the owner have enough money to buy a no soliciting sign? Then if someone comes in, call the police. Simple. Also works with drunks. Someone asked me for money one day when I was broke and didn't have any. I just looked him in the eye and said no. He walked away. No problem.And, yes, I felt guilty because I didn't have any money. If someone gets drunk, homeless or otherwise, and wanders out in the street it is their fault. No one is going to be sued. That would like having a party and one of your drunk guests doesn't look crossing the street and gets hit. Would you be liable? I would hope that would not happen. I would hope that someone would not take advantage of someone and deliberately run them down just because they can.

pace 5 years, 4 months ago

Do Not Give Pan Handlers Money. Do Not Give Pan Handlers money.. Makes them mean, opposite of desired effect.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

Irish I am usually supportive of what you have to say. However in this case you are making excuses for people who refuse to help themselves. I check the CDIC site often. The "success stories" are few and far between. It is clear even the board of directors knows the shelter is an epic failure since they don't want their names listed for public veiw.

If you look at the archive articles from the first location in the basement of St. John's church you will find quotes from a handful of participants the utilized the shelter from the start. If you check today you will find those same people are still using the shelter on a daily basis. Example: Mark was the first person to walk into St. John's( I know this because I was volunteering the first night the shelter was open and many nights over the next couple years) and Mark can still be found at the shelter any day of the week. You see Irish some of us were there from the start trying to help. The problem is that so long as the shelter molly coddles with no expectations from those using the facility the problem will continue to perpetuate.

Irish I am so glad that you now have a home and Deion, but I think the reason you do has very little to do with the drop in center and everything to do with your own level of integrity. The current drop in center policies encourage self desructive behavior. The proof is in those who have homesteaded there for years and those who have died as a result of continous drug and alcohol abuse( Buck, Jeanie, Trapper, Dreama, Rose...)

It just gets old after awhile. The shelter always wants more yet there are no positive outcomes to speak of. For the amount of time the shelter has been open you would expect to find more than two success stories on the site. If Loring Henderson, Kathy Wright, Brian Blevins, Hilda Enoch, Both the Elders and the rest really care about the homeless in this community, then why the hell are those they serve drinking themselves to death at the tax payers expense.?

kugradinco 5 years, 4 months ago

  1. These are people we are talking about!

  2. It is a horrible thing to be homeless and sleep in shelter. Most people that are homeless do not want to be homeless are sleeping shelters. There is nothing inviting about it even if they build a new shelter, it is going to be crowded, noisy, and is going to smell bad.. If you are homeless this is probably your last resort.

  3. Lorring is one of my idols and I wish their were more people like him. He cares about people and the shelter offers case management and other resources that help people get housed and off of the streets.

  4. The Lawrence homeless population is an eclectic mix with varied characteristics. Some have substance abuse issues and/or were diagnosed with mental illness. Some have been homeless for many years. Others are college educated and became homeless recently. So there is no ‘average’ representative individual or group profile of the homeless population. Many of these people have mental illness, PTSD, and other trauma related disorders. These disorders often involve substance abuse and addiction as part of the illness. These are people who need help because they are sick and they either end up on jail costing the tax payer lots of money or they end up on the street if you don't provide a decent shelter. If they are on the streets then they become dangerous because they don't get the help they need.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

All of your comments bearded_gnome were mean, and spiteful. You words are so obtuse.

mdrndgtl 5 years, 4 months ago

Can't we put the homeless shelter in North Lawrence with the rest of the rabble?

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

Help is one thing. Constant enabling is another. A few years ago when the shelter was young the case manager was getting drunk and high with the shelter participants. He was fired. DCCCA provides alcohol and drug counseling and most of their counselors are versed in dual diagnoisis. Bert Nash provides mental health services too , but if people don't take their medications the efforts are for nil. The shelter not only allows self medication; they encourage it by the very lack of structure and compliance. Help is great if those who are being helped have an honest desire to be helped.

bearded_gnome 5 years, 4 months ago

Failingwhilereading: You proved my point, beard-gnome. Your comment about scalping is really racist in itself.

---ever heard of sarcasm. in this I'm using humor to idemtify that your overt racist hatred of all whites (red rage) is just as wrong as racist hatred of indians because they're indians.

there was an important teaching of my faith, you may have heard of Jesus, he likened hatred of another with killing that other person. you might want to look up some of His teachings.

p.s. if God had granted me children, they would have been born little injuns.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Thought shalt not judge lest ye be judged; Do on to others as you would have them do onto you; treat your neighbor as you would treat oneself. What about those Christian teachings? Are you one of them pseudo Christians Oh by the way I am half native, and half European descent. Once again you proved my point bearded_gnome

Medicman 5 years, 4 months ago

Why not build a new much needed library and turn the current one into a homless shelter. If they are going to allow people to stay in the shelter then put a time limit on how long they can stat there. After a certain point your no longer homless your just a worthless bum. We could just rent a bus and drive them all out to California. Just get the worthless long term bums out of town. Better yet we could fill in the waste I mean wet lands with them. If that upsets you go hug a tree.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

blindrabbit (Anonymous) says…

“Although I'm sure Mr. Henderson and the other staff at the 10th Street location have tried to do a good job with a really tough situation, it is amazing to me that (he and others) have not done a better job at being a good neighbor to the greater community. The continual panhandling, loitering and intimidation that his clients have imposed on a caring community is not satisfactory.”

It is impossible for any staff of any facility to manage all persons who frequent or associate with it.

If a barbecue restaurant is located downtown are they responsible for all persons who eat there and everyone downtown who happens to like barbecue? Of course not; it’s unmanageable and unreasonable. The shelter can not be responsible for every person in this city who is homeless or associates with them.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

KEITHMILES05 (Anonymous) says…

“Lawrence is so hung up on “doing good for the homeless” instead of helping them get training and jobs. Typical.”

Not typical at all. The shelter offers a back to work program that helps persons obtain employment and this program has been in effect for some time.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

somedude20 (Anonymous) says…

“Why do they need another all-new building?”

They have never had an all new building. They need a new one because as has been publicly stated the building they are in is not designed for their use and is difficult to operate in.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

connected (Anonymous) says…

"Henderson, if this is “as good as it gets” maybe you're not the right person to be making the decisions here."

Loring Henderson has done so much for this community. He has repeatedly been the punching bag for those who disagree with the issue of homelessness in this city. If all of us are as kind and compassionate when we reach his age the world would be a better place.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

Master_Chief (Anonymous) says…

"Well that's really nice…real nice of “us” to provide so well for these folks. Perhaps Lawrence can become a mecca for drunk/drugged bums. I'll be providing a load of saltpeter if they come by my place."

Saltpeter being Potassium Nitrate.

Which is used in explosives and gunpowder.

Your post of providing a load of this substance implies the use of firearms. You make no statement of if they trespass or break into your place, simply “come by my place.”

Do you provide this "load" for all who come by your place?

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

“There are no rules it is a wet shelter.”

There are numerous rules.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

blue73harley (Anonymous) says…

"If ya can't dodge a noisy, slow moving freight, how are you going to dodge a car? http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2006/aug…"

I knew her and was around her the last few days of her life. There is more to her story than being unable to dodge a train.

Utilizing another person’s death for your personal spin is reprehensible.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

mr_fixit (Anonymous) says…

"Having spoken with several officers of the law, it is reasonable to be a bit homelessphobic. Walk down the alley where the current shelter is tonight and let us know how safe you felt…."

I do this often and feel perfectly safe.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

been_there (Anonymous) says…

"Sorry Irish but I do know of registered sex offenders that have frequented the drop-in shelter. If we are building a new building, put it over by the law enforcement center across the highway and that way the police can keep an eye on them."

There are registered sex offenders all over Lawrence. More of them live outside the lcs.

Here is the website. Enter the city or zip code and see how many live at locations other than LCS.

http://www.accesskansas.org/kbi/offender_registry/

LCS is located in zip code 66044. Currently when searching that zip code, 32 names appear.

LCS is 214 w 10th. Salvation Army is 946 New Hampshire.

Only 2 of the 32 are listed at those addresses.

bearded_gnome 5 years, 4 months ago

failingwhilereading, please look back on my previous posts.
I do care about the homeless, that is those who don't choose to stay homeless. in many dozens of posts I have criticized the system of handouts in this community for making homeless comfortable in their self-destruction.
if you want to reference the Bible, try getting familiar with it first. Paul wrote that those who would not work should not eat.

he also wrote all labor has profit.

the "judge not" reference is typically taken out of context by liberal unbelievers like you. I am not condemning the homeless or particularly the bums to he||. however, the 'bums' do pose a danger, for personal safety, health, drug abuse, crime, etc. do you deny that the habitually homeless (bums) have a far higher rate of crime commission?

and your being half european in heritage is pretty weird, given your previously stated 'red rage' against whites, all whites.

obviously you need some psychotherapy.

and 'red rage' hurts you the most. again, my comment above the 'scalping' was obviously figurative.

"... he has already committed murder in his heart." Jesus said about hatred of another.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

"A few years ago when the shelter was young the case manager was getting drunk and high with the shelter participants. He was fired.”

It is unknown how far back "young" refers to, but if this event you speak of occurred within the past few years than this statement is completely untrue.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

“The “success stories” are few and far between.”

Incorrect. Perhaps some success stories are not as public as you would like.

“The current drop in center policies encourage self desructive behavior. The proof is in those who have homesteaded there for years and those who have died as a result of continous drug and alcohol abuse( Buck, Jeanie, Trapper, Dreama, Rose…)”

I knew these people as well. Blaming the staff for their deaths is unfounded when they offered repeated help and assistance to them. No one staff person can change or stop another individual’s behavior. All the help in the world can not stop an individual from acting upon their will.

If Loring Henderson, Kathy Wright, Brian Blevins, Hilda Enoch, Both the Elders and the rest really care about the homeless in this community, then why the hell are those they serve drinking themselves to death at the tax payers expense.?

It is because of a disease called Alcoholism. It is because Lawrence has no detox center. It is because the time it takes to wait between detox and rehab is a long time. It is because we live in a culture that loves to celebrate drinking irresponsibly.

kla4one 5 years, 4 months ago

Good thing we have some people like Irish and Prometheus in this community. And Loring Henderson. You're fighting an uphill battle, but I admire you for it. Good luck persuading those listening only to their own stereotypes and prejudices.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Do you choose what I believe in bearded-gnome. judge not wasn't taken out of context. I believe the meaning say to make judgement of another person. Is as if you have committed the same sin, and god will judge you as if you had committed the same sin.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

The case manager was fired for getting drunk, and high? That case manager moved on, and wasn't fired. He did a great job, and is doing a great job now. If you really don't know what your talking about, and your talking sh*t. Next time you have a thought. Let it go.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Oh, and bearded_gnome the comment on red rage is still another form of racism. Red man, red skin was used as a racist comment in the past. It was used to let the person know they were less than white.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

It truly amazes me, and leaves me dumbfounded to see that Lawrence thinks it self so progressive. Yet that bigotry that is truly here so prevalent. Not only racial but, economically, religiously. Even towards sexual preferences. Then the things people will make up, and spout as truth. If you do not understand what it is like to be homeless, or have an addiction issue. Not even mention mental health. You can read about all these thing in a books, but if you do not get down, and dirty, and right in the trenches. Where these things have affected people to get to the point of homelessness you will not understand them. If you truly want to know what its like, and understand the true pattern of homelessness. To see its a circle that is almost impossible to get out of. Stop in the shelter, and donate sometime. Sit down, and talk to some of the people there. Actually get to know them. Since you hate them so much, and most of you don't want them in Lawrence, and you treat them as your enemy.(someone to just get rid of). Shouldn't you get to know your enemy?

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

Prometheus "It is because of a disease called Alcoholism. It is because Lawrence has no detox center. It is because the time it takes to wait between detox and rehab is a long time. It is because we live in a culture that loves to celebrate drinking irresponsibly."

I bet you would love a detox center here then bill would be far greater than 3 million. Boo Hoo alcoholism. The county jail offers free detox. Medical detox happens in 72 hours with or without a detox center.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Blue I meant that in the context to another post. Hanging around in front drinking. Read the full post. Do you read just the headlines of a news paper, and think you know what the whole stories are about.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

articho You think you understand alcoholism? What do you think an alcoholic is going to do after they had to detox in jail? Do you think that the symptoms from being an alcoholic just go away? Just because they get the time to sit awhile doesn't help them with recovery from alcoholism. They need to learn the skills need to escape those destructive habits/ life style. They also need someone with enough sobriety time to help them learn how to use the tools they would learn threw rehab. So how much does it cost to have someone in, and out of jail? I would bet its a lot cheaper to get the alcoholics help. Than to cycle them in, and out of jail. I swear I am in a geographical oddity. Where the majority are M.R. Its absolutely amazing.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

artichokeheart (Anonymous) says…

"If Loring Henderson, Kathy Wright, Brian Blevins, Hilda Enoch, Both the Elders and the rest really care about the homeless in this community, then why the hell are those they serve drinking themselves to death at the tax payers expense.?"

"I bet you would love a detox center here then bill would be far greater than 3 million. Boo Hoo alcoholism. The county jail offers free detox. Medical detox happens in 72 hours with or without a detox center."

Firstly, the first listed quote by you I forgot to put quotations by in my last post. I was about to fall asleep and I apologize for my error and want to give you credit for your words.

In regard to the second quote contained herein, this is not about money. This is about saving lives. Having a detox center in town would allow more persons to use it instead of traveling elsewhere to do so and perhaps changing their minds along the way.

Detox without proper medical observation or care can result in the often fatal Delirium Tremens or choking to death on one's vomit.

Alcoholism is a serious disease and calling "boo hoo" is disrespectful to all those in this world who suffer from it.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

This is about money 3 million to be exact.

Death from detox is rare however the jail has the abilty to transport a person to the E.R. in the event of a emergency.

"Alcoholism is an obsession of the mind...." This is only a partial quote but I think you get my point.

Nobody is talking about not helping those in need however there should be limits. Those limits should include not serving people who choose to abuse drugs constantly. In a treatment setting 30 to 90 days is standard recovery time. Those who have been abusing alcohol and drugs for 5 years, a decade, more are not willing. Services should be limited.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Wrong again articho Someone with addictions who uses lets say 15 years is someone to throw away? I know at least 5 people that had used longer than that, and they got clean. They are good people. I respect what they do now, and I respect their opinions. In fact one person I know you would be amazed was a drunk for many years. That person does more for this community than most will do in a life time. This person is still doing things to help the community. How many times does it take someone who has addiction problems to get it right, and become sober? What if we go with your idea, and put time limits on everyone. How many students would never be back to finish their degrees years later. What about the mentally ill who quit taking their med? Its a very common problem. Do we throw them away as well?

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

Yes it is more than 3 million especially if they now want a detox center. Although I have to wonder why a wet shelter that supports drinking and drug use would even want a detox center.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

blue Your actually putting a value on human life. How close is that idea to being able to buy someone?

honestone 5 years, 4 months ago

And The Real Issue Is... A wet shelter is enabling NO ONE wants a shelter...much less a WET shelter in their neighborhood (anyone that tells you otherwise is lying) MOST people have sympathy for people "down on their luck" but few have much sympathy for the cronic hopeless that refuse help A wet shelter across town from services and downtown is idiotic. We currently watch the cronic hopeless wander their routes between the shelter and the package stores stopping along the way to tip a few or sleep in the in-between neighborhoods. No that they will have a longer walk that just means more neighborhoods will be impacted.

blindrabbit 5 years, 4 months ago

Prometheus: Why not take the Topeka "Road to Recovery" approach to the situation that I mention my post of 7:53 P.M. yesterday. This approached has worked in many places; was reviewed by the City Commissioners a couple of years ago, and rejected by them. My guess was that there was too much push back from the Lawrence homeless community. Sounds like they want to continue the perpetual warehousing of clients rather than return them to a productive place in society. My read on this is that Loring and The Board maintain control by perpetuating this situation.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

They do not support drinking, and drugging. Drug, and alcohol is not allowed on the property. Those who choose to bring it on shelter property also choose to be band from the shelter. Because someone is drunk they shouldn't have a safe place to sleep? Have you ever been drunk, and been asked not to sleep where ever you stay? If not truly what is the difference? Why would you want someone who is drunk, or high wondering the streets? Wouldn't you want them somewhere where they are being watched? Hard to cause trouble when your sleeping it off.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

"How many times does it take someone who has addiction problems to get it right, and become sober? "

I believe the average is three.

You are on a slippery slope here when speaking of successful teatment intervention. For the purpose of satatistics 90 days of non drug use outside of a facility is considered a successful.

I bet we know some of the same people, However the people you speak of are not long term residents of the shelter.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Wow I live in a town of true idiots. Who can't actually learn about something before they speak on it.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

Wow that sounds like a " dry drunk" to me.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

I know 3 people who were homeless, and are clean, and sober. They are doing well for themselves. One of them is working on a post grad. I'll bet that one got by you.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

No I choose not to drink, or use. It would be pretty hard to live with one, and stay sober if I had addiction issues.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Maybe codependent, but not an addict, or alcoholic.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

They say 3 out of 10 make it to 1 year. Thanks for supporting statistics. Now let's talk about the other 7 that are swilling mouthwash and taking up space.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Wow like I said before. You can read about it. Yet you still do not understand addiction issues. Go down there, and spend sometime to get to know some of the people with addiction problems then you might understand. You truly can't learn something until you put that knowledge to use.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

Loring Henderson's tagline: " It works if you work it."

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Yes it is a choice. I live with my choices. I also admit my problems. Wouldn't it be worse if I didn't know, and still was codependent.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

One thing I learned in special ops. You don't give up on the person next to you. Never ever leave that person behind. If you do the persons taking their place will give up on you.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

There are Alanon meetings all over town. Call 841-1992 for meeting information.

50YearResident 5 years, 4 months ago

"We are confident that this location will benefit the community,” Henderson said." So, let me get this straight. $430,000 for the land, $3 million for a new building, $300,000 or more for annual operating expenses for a cause the majority of Lawrence residents do not support and this is going to benefit Lawrence residents. I think I missed something here!

Practicality 5 years, 4 months ago

Some of the Rules at the Topeka Rescue Mission:

  1. The use of alcohol by TRM guests is strictly prohibited. Guests suspected of being under the influence of alcohol will be asked to submit to a breath test. A positive reading on a breath test, or refusal to submit to a breath test, will result in being barred from the mission.

  2. Being under the influence of non-prescription drugs is not tolerated at the Mission. Guests suspected of being under the influence of such drugs may be asked to submit to a urine analysis. A positive reading on the analysis, or refusal to submit to the urine analysis, will result in being barred from the mission.

The following rules are particularly serious and violations will result in a "premise" bar. Those barred from the Mission's premises may not come in even for meals, and depending on the nature of the offense, may be arrested for trespassing if seen on Mission grounds.

  1. Smoking is not permitted inside the building.
  2. All weapons and sharp objects must be checked in at front desk.
  3. Verbal abuse of others or the Mission is not tolerated.
  4. Physical abuse of others or the Mission is not tolerated.
  5. Serious or repeated sexual misconduct is not tolerated.
  6. Damage or destruction of others' or Mission property is not tolerated.
  7. Theft of others' or Mission property is not tolerated.
  8. Bringing alcohol or illegal drugs onto Mission property is forbidden.

Practicality 5 years, 4 months ago

consumer1,

I agree with what you just wrote. From what I have heard, the Topeka Rescue Mission does an outstanding job at helping folks who are in truly in need. It does appear that they have minimal expectations though, (I did not post all of the rules) and if these are not met, people are banned from the Mission. I wonder if a lot of the banned people just come to Lawrence.

Bud Stagg 5 years, 4 months ago

3 million? I say hire the homeless to do the labor they can. Great opportunity to get them on their feet. However if they agree to the job and don't work or don't show, they are out forever and not welcome back. In addition, they should be given 3 months every 5 years to stay there. After that they are out.

If they are getting my tax money then I think the shelter should be there to help them help themselves, not as a place to hide, not as a place to crash. Otherwise help them to another town, they don't want to help themselves and we don't want them.

ModSquadGal 5 years, 4 months ago

WTH? I'd like a $3 million home too - will somebody ante up for THAT? WHY are we continuing to cater to people who have no intention of helping themselves? Lawrence is sliding down a slippery slope with it's eyes wide open. Why would we want to be known as a place that welcomes homeless people with open arms and a $3 million shelter? I agree that people who are down on their luck deserve a little help, but not unless they are willing to work for it. There's no reason to just give handouts anymore. Our city and our citizens deserve better.

Romans832 5 years, 4 months ago

Reference was made to being close to the Health Care Access clinic... At this moment, yes, but HCA has plans to move near the hospital. Not sure about the timetable for that, but will most likely occur before the new shelter is ready.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

pogo Do you really believe the drugs, and alcohol will be gone after they move. I have been downtown, and seen students drinking and smoking in the allies. How come your not complaining about that?

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

pogo You also call it a cess pool. Your right it isn't nice, but it is all they have. I am sure if you, and I compared places (Where I choose to stay during the summer and weekends) I would call you low rent. So if you want to start classing people economically. I would be way ahead of you. Does that make me a better person than you? I don't think so. From what you wrote it would. Is it what we have that makes us better human beings. Isn't it what we do in life? Those are the things we should be measured by.

bb837988 5 years, 4 months ago

The 23rd St. location sure beats keeping this cess pool in the neighborhood it presently is in…..

So what has the East Lawrence neighborhood done to deserve the shelter? Are the families that live in the surrounding area any less deserving than any other neighborhood?

The need is there. But surely there is a location that serves the homeless community, is close to public transportation and close to the services that are needed but does not mean infringing on family neighborhoods.

I am in no way insinuating that the homeless population poses a danger to children or any one else. But if the residents of the current shelter are "good neighbor" material, why aren't there any posts from their current neighbors lamenting their departure.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

Would their be that much of a difference, I could walk across this town from east to west in about 1 hour. Big deal where they are at in such a small town. As long as they can have serves. Where ever they put the shelter your going to see homeless. I see homeless individuals everywhere in this town.

Practicality 5 years, 4 months ago

fallingwhilereading,

Why don't you just let the homeless who are druggies/drunks live in your summer palace you were bragging about? That solves all the problems. You guys could party together. Then Lawrence can take care of the homeless who are legitimately trying to get back on their feet again. Problem solved.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

I don't like to party, and I was homeless 3 years ago. After a 8 month hospital stay. I also helped a couple of homeless when I moved from the shelter. So I have had homeless live with me. Your turn Practicality

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

fallingwhilereading (Anonymous) says… " Isn't it what we do in life? Those are the things we should be measured by."

O.K. let's go with this thought. If it is what a person does that matters then we should ask what the drop in participants do.

According to police records they urinate in public, carry open containers of alcohol in public, tresspass, batter each other, aggressively panhandle, shoplift, dusturb the peace and quiet of others, pass out on public property and suck community resources dry.

Yes i have to agree with you it is what a person does that matters.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

I've seen drunk students doing all of the same. Should we tell everyone at KU to pick up, and leave?

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

I am sure if you go threw the records just as many crimes are committed by students. Look at the trial going on right now. I don't think he was homeless. Nope he was a KU student. Your argument would be to remove all potential criminals. Then everyone needs to pick up , and leave.

Reuben Turner 5 years, 4 months ago

it's one thing to help the homeless and it's another to never help them try to better themselves; and that is what the shelter is doing for some. some get there beg or drink or whatever on during the day and back to the shelter they go to rest up for tomorrows run. ain't never tried to get better. i just feel sorry for the residents that have to deal w/ all downtown has to deal w/. and i hope the outskirts of town don't start looking like downtown; especially at night; bums just laying any and everywhere. im not against the shelter nor helping needy, but when helping them never helps them in the long run; oughta be something done.

honestone 5 years, 4 months ago

Ok fallingwhilereading...you had a tough time and pulled yourself out of it. Good...more people should follow your example. Tell me...what do you think of the cronic homeless that choose to live that life and not take any of the resources that are offered them beyond a free place to sleep and eat? Do you not find any personal responsibility involved here. I am not refering to the dry family that is looking for work and getting educated to make their life better. We have even had LJ World feature "homeless" people that admit that they have family here that will care for them but they choose not to take that help but rather suck off of society. I bust my butt at two jobs everyday so I can provide a nice place for my family and you think I should be OK with GIVING and GIVING for those that don't care and then you put their FREE HOME in my neighborhood. Come on... NO ONE wants a wet shelter. NO ONE wants a wet shelter in their neighborhood. The commission likes it because DLA will get off their backs

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

honestone What do you think a wet shelter is. If you think it is some place where the homeless can drink your wrong. Its a place where if you have drank you can stay there. Do you really want someone who is drunk, or high wondering the streets at night. I would rather have them in a safe, and monitored environment. Hard to do something to you , and your house hold when the drunk, or high homeless person is sleeping it off. With on site monitor.

fallingwhilereading 5 years, 4 months ago

POgo Funny a 8th grade education. Come out to Cedar Creek in Olathe. Enter the community. When you enter I call that low rent. Go to 108th head west. When you get to the end you have gotten to see my place. Why would you bore me with your bank accounts that can not be over 250,000 to be FDIC insured. Completely laughable Oh thanks for the laugh. I need to start watching the Asian currencies. That will keep me giggling until after midnight. I will have to look at this when I wake up. It will be nice to have a laugh with the morning coffee. I hope to see what you wright after this. Maybe I will see you in the law department this fall.

Prometheus 5 years, 4 months ago

blindrabbit-

I have not heard anything new from the TRM in some time and the “Road to recovery” is something I can not accurately discuss with you as that phrase has never passed through my ears before. We all have much to learn as none of us can ever know everything.

pogo-

LINK to me is not what it is to you. I have volunteered, served food, prepared food, hung out, and dined with persons there for years. It is a community location for anyone in the community to eat lunch, homeless or not. Yes, it gets more police calls than lunch at McDonalds, but the police calls usually are in regards to those hanging out or loitering around outside, not those eating inside the building.

You are correct that there likely can be persons on the property dealing drugs, but there are also persons throughout Lawrence who most likely deal drugs or cook meth in a house or apartment on a daily basis as well.

I truly think your requested challenge for persons to eat at LINK to see what it is like is a great idea. Whether those persons afterward would agree with your perception of it or mine is irrelevant. They would have a better idea of this social issue and acquired knowledge is never a waste of one’s time.

artichokeheart-

I disagree with a few of your posts today. Nevertheless, I respect your opinions and the passion and frustration you have for this community issue. I hope the resolution of this issue may one day be one that is to your liking.

Good evening to all.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

fallingwhilereading (Anonymous) says… "Look at the trial going on right now. I don't think he was homeless. Nope he was a KU student."

Grasp at straws much? The current trial of a K.U. student has nothing to do with the chronic homeless situation in Lawrence.

You have yet to address the issues of those who have been chronically homeless for years. I threw out a few first names of a few persons who have been around for a long time and a few who died homeless after years of utilizing the shelter. I also mentioned the first person to walk into the wet shelter when it was in St. John's church basement. It might intrest you to know that he is one of the most skilled carpenters I have ever met. It might also intrest you to know that he has been homeless for close to 17 years by choice. I say choice because everyday he has the choice to either take his medications and go to work or pick up a bottle and seek drugs. He chooses the last.

There are several very gifted musicians( one in particular sticks out in my mind)who plays for change between stints at the county jail. The one that sticks in my mind worked for years at K.U. but one day just quit showing up because as he puts it" the potato juice was there"

Falling: we are talking about two different sets of people. Most do not have a problem with helping those who have hit a bump and need a hand up. The current shelter space would suffice for that mission. The real argumant is related to those who have made a lifestle of homelessness. You dance around the concept of treating people with dignity yet you also want to enable them to keep destroying their live one day at a time.

I imagine you and a few others commenting here consider me to be a royal b*tch. The truth is I'm just tired of it all. We simply cannot help those who refuse to help themselves. Survival requires consistent and sustained action on the part of those trying to survive. About three years ago I started weening myself from volunteering time with the homeless. I found myself getting frustrated with their lack of motivation. And I became uncomfortable with my feeling of frustration towards them so I walked away. I just cannot invest any more of my valuable time to those who won't budge. So Falling the next time one of these wayfaring strangers crosses over feel free to introduce yourself to me at the funeral. I'm the person who sits to the right, back row center.

Amy Heeter 5 years, 4 months ago

There would be no need for a larger space if in truth reintegration were the goal. If in fact Loring Henderson and his staff were trying to reintegrate participants that could happen in 3-6 months. Family promise has already proven this can be done in a short time.

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