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Archive for Tuesday, March 25, 2008

Bush reflects on losses in Iraq

President says 4,000 dead have laid foundation for peace

President Bush, accompanied by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, makes a statement at the State Department in Washington. Bush on Monday offered his sympathies to the families of the 4,000 military personnel killed in Iraq.

President Bush, accompanied by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, makes a statement at the State Department in Washington. Bush on Monday offered his sympathies to the families of the 4,000 military personnel killed in Iraq.

March 25, 2008

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— Marking a grim milestone, a determined President Bush declared Monday the lives of 4,000 U.S. military men and women who have died in Iraq "were not lost in vain." The White House signaled anew that additional troops won't be pulled out soon.

A roadside bomb in Baghdad killed four U.S. soldiers Sunday night, pushing the death toll to 4,000.

That number pales compared with those of other lengthy U.S. wars, but it is much higher than many Americans, including Bush, ever expected after the swift U.S. invasion of Iraq five years ago.

Bush proclaimed the end of major combat operations in Iraq in May 2003. Almost all of the U.S. deaths there have happened since then.

"One day people will look back at this moment in history and say, 'Thank God there were courageous people willing to serve, because they laid the foundations for peace for generations to come,"' Bush said after a State Department briefing about long-term diplomacy efforts.

"I have vowed in the past, and I will vow so long as I'm president, to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain - that, in fact, there is an outcome that will merit the sacrifice," Bush said.

The news of 4,000 dead in Iraq came the week after the war rolled into its sixth year, dominating most of Bush's presidency. Almost 30,000 U.S. service members have been wounded in the war.

Early in April, Bush is expected to announce the next steps in the war, and he is likely to embrace a pause in any troop withdrawals beyond those scheduled to end this July.

Democrats in Congress and on the presidential campaign trail continue to push for a faster end to war. But Bush still has the upper hand for 10 months.

"Americans are asking how much longer must our troops continue to sacrifice for the sake of an Iraqi government that is unwilling or unable to secure its own future," said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She said the cost to the U.S. reputation is immense, and the threat to the economy at home is unacceptable.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said the death toll is a reminder that the nation must get out of an "endless civil war and make America more secure."

The White House was careful in its reaction to the milestone, calling it a sober moment but emphasizing that deaths are grieved no matter what the number. Bush said people are praying for the families of those killed whether they were among the first or the most recent casualties.

Grim milestones such as new death toll often go unremarked by Bush. But he chose on this occasion to note the losses, albeit briefly and without taking questions from reporters.

As always, his message was determination.

"Our strategy going forward will be aimed at making sure that we achieve victory and, therefore, America becomes more secure," he said. Just last week, Bush said the high cost in lives and money was necessary to halt the spread of terrorism and keep Iraq out of chaos.

The White House said Bush is likely to embrace an expected recommendation from his top commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, for a halt in troop withdrawals in July. During the pause, Petraeus and other senior commanders would make yet another assessment of conditions in Iraq, possibly in September, before recommending any specific troop reductions for the final months of 2008.

Comments

lounger 6 years, 9 months ago

Lame A*s! 4,000 Dead so he can claim Oil rights.....

Ragingbear 6 years, 9 months ago

A foundation for peace should never be made of dead bodies.

RedwoodCoast 6 years, 9 months ago

Maybe the quote for that photo should be:

President Bush responding to a reporter's question about egg on his face: "No, I question whether er not you are seein egg on my face." Sec. of State Rice later confirmed that no egg was present on the president's face.

I'm certainly ready to see what history does with him.

Kontum1972 6 years, 9 months ago

what boob...he got out of vietnam...he should be in prison..he is no Bush Senior..at least his dad flew combat missions..and where was he at drill time...i see his G/F posed with him in this pic...obtw..has anyone seen Laura lately?....whats the deal on that?

50YearResident 6 years, 9 months ago

4000 dead plus over 30,000 maimed and disfigured that people seem to forget about or are not counting as war casualties. It's a National disgrace.

jonas 6 years, 9 months ago

"The story quotes Iraqi government sources as saying that even a death toll of 600,000 is ridiculously high."

Because if you can't trust an Iraqi government official, who can you trust?

The picture, though, is kind of a bad choice (or a good one, I guess, depending on how you look at it) to go with the headline. He looks like he's saying "Shucky darn! My bad, but whatcha donna do?" or something like that.

50YearResident 6 years, 9 months ago

Bu$h's viewpoint: You got to kill em to save em.

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

CHENEY: On the security front, I think there's a general consensus that we've made major progress, that the surge has worked. That's been a major success.

RADDATZ: Two-third of Americans say it's not worth fighting.

CHENEY: So?

RADDATZ So? You don't care what the American people think?

CHENEY: No. I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls.


Here's a nice present for you libs to send you into a righteous anger this beautiful morning. From: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/19/cheney-poll-iraq/

Roadkill_Rob 6 years, 9 months ago

Summers_Eve,

Yeah, Dumbya achieved all that all by himself...right.

I give Dumbya credit that he is able to fool sheeple like yourself into thinking that he is "one of ya'll", but he is clueless when it comes to the big picture.

But, go ahead and blame Clinton...yawn.

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

X, "16,440 civilian deaths a month. You think the media would have "overlooked" this. Especially with the lefts need for dead bodies."


Oh right X, because the American media is so anti-war huh? Those embedded reporters are always giving the American public the inside scoop of the truth on the ground, aren't they?

You have to be a first rate moron to assume the main stream American media would report the true death tolls or crimes of the US invasion. All the major media outlets are owned by the very weapons makers and leaders of the military-industrial complex who perpetuate this war. Get a clue.

SpiritTat 6 years, 9 months ago

This pic is a photo op of Bush doing a Christ pose..

see the 'halo' chandelier in front of which he is positioned "just-so" ?

the outspread arms

the tilt of the head

freakin propaganda at its simple-best.

But the look on his face?? BWAAHAAAA ... priceless.

[Well, actually, it's cost us - human beings - A LOT.]

EXks 6 years, 9 months ago

4,000 + dead and gas still UNDER $4 a gallon (at least in most of the country ), I guess W's surge IS working!

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Yes I do realize how insane 16,440 civilian deaths a month sounds. This entire war is insane, has most are X. War is not what you see on television. Of course people are being massively exterminated, it's been going on for years. The truth is we will never know the true death toll of Iraqi citizens, in most cases the amount of dead bodies accumulated made it impossible to keep track of the official number. Thousands of Iraqi people are simply missing and we may never know if they were killed or left the country. The Iraqi population has been reduced by over 3 million since the invasion, both due to massive refugees and deaths.

The Lancet study in July, 2006 placed the death toll estimate at 600,000. Since then JustForeignPolicy.org has continued the study and places the estimate over 1 Million dead. But good luck trying to get General Electric to report that story.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 9 months ago

Scenebooster, what makes you assume that "Summers Eve" is a male?

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet4freedom,

As I said before, it is impossible to determine the true number of deaths. My overall point was that the mainsteam American press will always under report the worst of war. The Lancet study is the most complete method study of the death toll. Of course not all the deaths were at the hands of American military, that is not the point at all.

If Keith O' has reported on the estimated death toll going over 1 Million people then that is news to me.

oldvet 6 years, 9 months ago

Ragingbear (Anonymous) says: A foundation for peace should never be made of dead bodies.

Sadly, rb, that is exactly what allows us to build and keep peace in our world...

US Revolutionary War, to establish this nation and be free from British tyranny - 4,445 US battle deaths

US Civil War, to preserve the union - 191,963 US battle deaths

WW1 - 53,402 US battle deaths

WW2 - 291,557 US battle deaths

6 years, 9 months ago

Bush's War on Frontline last night & tonight is a must see for anyone interested. Hope they run it again & again & again leading up to the general election next fall.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 9 months ago

Scenebooster, does your now fully-admitted sexism and obvious lack of sensitivity estop you to continue to consort with your fellow radical leftists?

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet,

I don't consider one news anchor to be the majority of American media...do you? The Lancet Study was reported on extensively in European mainstream news, yet was barely mentioned in American media besides a few renegades like Keith O'.

The Lancet Study is the only one that I'm aware of that used the "cluster survey" method, which is the most universally accepted method for estimating death tolls due to large scale conflicts.

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

Windlass, you forgot to take your meds today. One of the blue and two of the yellow.

jgragg 6 years, 9 months ago

The media only reports on the worst of the war. If I want to know what good our military is doing over there I have to ask my husband.

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet,

Mossadegh was legally elected by the Iranian Parliament to be the nation's Prime Minister and was removed in a CIA/MI6 backed coup called "Operation Ajax". Are you arguing otherwise?

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Rosy O'Donnell? Is that the best you can do Vet? Give me a break.

sundancewierdo 6 years, 9 months ago

malcolm_x_obama (Anonymous) says:

"1 million Iraqi's killed" Uber stupid lie of the day.

A little over two years ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high; 2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon; 3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we've seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet; 2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3 a gallon; 3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase); 4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses); 5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars; 6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Be careful what you vote for in November, you might get it again!

Can you afford it?"

your a little over two years ago list just happened to be right before the election. the short list you have given was an attempt to buy your vote. since the dems have gotten into congress, pretty much everything has been vetoed, the "defense" budget has gone up, and oil is at an all time high and that's not congress' fault. that's the administration's fault. when things are not going well, who is to blame? the boss, that's who.

as far as bush's comments go, there is less terrorism because we have made americans more accessible to them by sticking them in the middle east so they don't have to go far or try too hard to kill a few. we should have taken all of that money we have spent and used it to find oil elsewhere.

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet says: "No. I noted that the shah, and not Mossadegh, was, according to the Iranian consitution, the leader of Iran. He was returned to power in what was essentially a counter-coup.

If you please that is incorrect, I would ask you to do the same thing I asked Windlass. The shah assumed power after his father stepped down during World War II. If you believe Mossadegh was the leader of Iran, please tell us when the shah turned over power to him."

Vet,

I've heard some funny interpretations of Iranian history, but this is unique indeed. I think the bulk of your confusion comes from the fact that you do not understand how the Iranian government was set up. The Shah was the monarch, the actual leader of the political government was the Prime Minister, backed by the legislatures of Parliament, which is how he obtained his authority. Mossadegh did not come to power in a coup, and the Shah didn't reliquish any of his power to him. Therefore the removal of Mossadegh was not a "counter-coup". Mossadegh was removed because he and the Iranian Parliament nationalized the Oil Industry of Iran against the wishes of the British and Americans. He was also pushing for more democratic reforms in the country which put him at odds with the Shah and foreign powers.

After Mossadegh was defeated by the military coup, arrested, and convicted in an illegal tribunal the Shah simply replaced him with another Prime Minister, who was loyal to the Shah and approved by the British and the US. The Shah then allowed the British, Americans, and Dutch to split the oil production of the country.

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 9 months ago

If Cheney sees his imperial grab for Iraq as a "major success," I wonder how he would define failure.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

The photo says it all. His pose signifies to me that he has no idea what the hell is going on.

I have many friends in the Army. My brother served in the first 9 months of the war until a roadside bomb killed his capt. blew off the arm of one of his men and left my brother with a shrapnel exit wound the size of a softball. Many....and by many I mean all the Army people I know want the war to end asap.

Ron Paul received more campaign donations from armed service men and women than any of the other candidates. This in large part because of his position on the war. He voted against it from the very beginning and would have brought everyone home right away.

Many of the service men and women want the war to end. They don't feel that their brothers and sisters will have died in vain should we leave. More importantly they don't want anymore to die.

As with all thoughts on the war no one can speak for all of the troops. I can, however attest to what I have heard from the mouths of the many that I know.

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet,

If want to believe that Mossadegh was not legally the Prime Minister of Iran voted by the Parliament...then fine. I've got better things to do than argue with a 'useful idiot'.

Kontum1972 6 years, 9 months ago

question?

how many veterans are on this post...and where did u serve...and what years..... Combat Vets...not rear echelon?

preebo 6 years, 9 months ago

I second Jcc's earlier statement. Frontline's Bush's War is an exceptionally insightful look into the Bush Administration and the run up to war in Iraq. KCPT is reairing it on Thursday.

This should be shown to every Social Studies or Government class in high schools across the nation. Future generations should be shown this over and over again. Hopefully, with the idea that this will not happen again.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet,

The payroll incentive makes for an attractive deal pay that we honestly can't afford when at the same time falling short on care for the current vets that come back. Not to mention the future vets.

Also if they are meeting their goals would that reflect on the number of tours any given solder is deployed for? I know a few that are on their 3rd.

Ron Paul's success or lack there of does not change the fact that he has received more donations from people in the military than any other candidate. Win or loose the money talks. It seems odd to me that John McCain didn't receive more.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

"If you were to poll the troops, I am confident that a majority would say they do not want the U.S. to leave Iraq until the job is done there."-Vet4freedom

I guess we need to clarify the definition of "job is done". If you mean a secure and stable Iraq....then the job will never be done.

If you mean prop up a weak government destin to fail then it shouldn't be too long.

The people of the region do not comprehend nor desire to live in a democracy. Which, wether we like it or not, may not be the best system for the people of the region. This is the problem with America. We have fashioned our foreign policy with the notion that democracy is the only way. Who are we to choose the style of government for others?

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet,

Use your head.

These are the words I wrote:

"The Shah was the monarch, the actual leader of the political government was the Prime Minister, backed by the legislatures of Parliament, which is how he obtained his authority."

The Shah was the figure head leader of Iran as I acknowledged, but the actual leader of the government (Parliament) was the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister (Mossadegh) and the Parliament went against the Shah with the nationalization of Iran's oil, this is the event which set the course for the coup. In fact the only reason that the Shah was forced to flee the country in the first place was because initally the military coup failed against Mossadegh because he had too much support from the Parliament and the people.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet4

Do the retention numbers include stop loss soldiers?

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

More alarming is the fact that in the same time frame as Iraq at least 30,000 teenage children have been killed in auto accidents in the USA.

Where is the outrage??

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

Jcjayhawk1 (Anonymous) says:

The people of the region do not comprehend nor desire to live in a democracy.


Two statements that are very true. People who do not live in democracies don't understand concepts of limited government or human and civil rights the way we do, as their personal experiences with these concepts are not substantial. There is not much we can do about this other than to support democratic institutions within these countries so that these people can experience them.

People won't want to live in a democracy if they don't see any benefit for them. The two biggest reasons that motivate people to want democracy is they see an economic benefit to it and a military one. The economic benefit is surely more powerful and long lasting, but the military one is far more dramatic and noticable. "[E]ach wave of democratic enthusiasm in the non-democratic world has been preceded, and in large measure encouraged, by some striking military victory of democratic powers over less democratic or undemocratic operations." http://www.meforum.org/article/216

This is why military victory in Iraq and Afghanistan is so important. "Staying the course" may seem like a cheap slogan to some, but it is a relevant means to achieving our ends, which is to make democratic inroads into these countries, because as our history shows, those countries with democratic, constitutional, representative governments are our allies, and from whom we have nothing to fear.

By giving up now, we will only reinforce the notion that these people have, which is that democracy is what is weak. By showing them that our form of government is not only economically strong but militarily strong as well, we can give them the incentive to support democratic institutions in their countries as well.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

The Army's recruiting sucess was not without price. During Fiscal Year 2007, only 79 percent of the new recruits entering the Army possessed a high school diploma. The DOD standard is that at least 90 percent of new recruits should have a high school diploma. Source: About.com

Just once instance in which standards have dropped. It is my theory that the uneducated are enrolling (at great risk) for combat pay. I know recruiters and money is a big selling point for them.

More standards reduced:

The Army approved more criminal history waivers than they have in years past. About 15 percent of new recruits required a criminal history waiver. Source About.com

So now we have 15 % are criminals of variety and 21% are undereducated. Now some of the criminal numbers and undereducated numbers are part of the same % but nevertheless the standards for the largest branch in the military have been reduced.

The next two years of recruiting will be even more challenging for the Army. Congress has decided to increase the total size of the Army by 74,000 by 2010 - to 547,000 active duty, reservists and National Guard. This will require significantly higher recruiting goals than the 80,000 goal which has challenged the Army for the past two years. Source: About.com

The future looks bleak for recruitment. And the motivation for enrollment is very suspect.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

"No. In fact, the Marine Corps terminated its stop loss policy in 2003." Vet4

How about the largest branch of the military...... the Army? They carry the bulk of the retention requirements.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

The shah was the ruler of Iran and after the coup searched the world for aslym as Carter in his love afair with the mullas refused to let him into the USA. I don't need a link to CNN I remember when it happened.

This all occured right after Carter closed the US military bases in Iran, and withheld financial and military support from the shah. This was during Jimmy's "free from oppression phase", he thought the mullas would love him for his wonderful actions but what he found was the US citizens employed at the US embassy caught in Jimmy's "how could everyone not love me phase" until the day he left office. The mullas knew Jimmy was a chicken and baffoon, and that Regan was not to be messed with.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

Wow george, what an idiot you are. There is no comparison, period. But you're a fool, and fools say stupid, foolish things.

Wow george, what an idiot you are. There is no comparison, period. But you're a fool, and fools say stupid, foolish things.

Wow george, what an idiot you are. There is no comparison, period. But you're a fool, and fools say stupid, foolish things.

Wow george, what an idiot you are. There is no comparison, period. But you're a fool, and fools say stupid, foolish things.

There Defendrrr do you feel more powerful now? Does this help you to feel more like a man?

My point is that you do not care that young Americans have died. If that was your cause you would be just as outraged that we have done nothing to raise the driving age to 17 or 18 or ...

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

I don't intend to diss the soldiers. I think the notion that the undereducated and criminals are inspired by serving their country is a little misguided.

The jobs available to criminals and non-diploma individuals are far less paying than the Military.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

But Carter only let him in for the cancer treatments. Thats all and thats the only reason.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

What was negotiated?? We got the hostages, what did Iran get??

just_another_bozo_on_this_bus 6 years, 9 months ago

The Palestinians elected Hamas as their legitimate "democratic" government, but their terrorism on Israel is no less real. And the terrorism inflicted on Palestinians by the democratic government of Israel is no less terrifying simply because of their form of government.

The terror inflicted on Iraq by the US is many orders of magnitude greater than all the terrorism inflicted on the US, from all sources, in its entire 232-year existence, and Bush's (s)election to office does nothing to cleanse that terror.

And imposing a nominally democratic government on Iraq will be no more effective at preventing opposing forces from terrorizing each other.

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet4Freedom (Anonymous) says:

Mkh:

"The Shah was the figure head leader of Iran as I acknowledged, but the actual leader of the government (Parliament) was the Prime Minister."

"Well, I tried to educate you, but you're obviously more interested in hurling insults. The shah was the head of state in Iran both before and after the coup that "returned him to power" (you keep missing that phrase in CNN's timeline)."

Wow. You are making it far too easy to debate you Vet. Now I'm just going to use your own words to prove you wrong.

"The shah was the head of state in Iran both before and after the coup."

Exactly. The Shah was the head of state before and after the coup because the coup never was against him, it was against Mossadegh, the head of the Iranian governmental body. As I said before, the only reason the Shah was forced to flee Iran the first time around is because his coup to remove Mossadegh intitially failed and the people turned against him. Therefore the CIA/MI6 had to turn "Operation Ajax" way up (more violent) to achieve the goals of toppling Mossadegh and "returning" the Shah to power. But the Shah's power was never taken away and given to Mossadegh. Their power was ALWAYS seperate and remained that way through the end, then to only be transfered to the new Prime Minister.

And since Mossadegh was originally given his power of Prime Minister legally through the Parliament, not a coup, your theory a "counter-coup" is ridiculous and unfounded.

Next time try reading some credible books instead of relying on an over-simplistic timeline from CNN.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

So according to you folks Carter was the one who started Iran contra? And Carter waited until after he lost the election to get the hostages back? Why didn't Jimmy stay up all night long and acomplish this feat 6 months or a year eariler??

Try again, maybe next time.

Kontum1972 6 years, 9 months ago

Vet4:

no,....i am just curious as to how many of these posts are arm chair warriors....who havent walked a mile in our shoes those of us who have been trained to go into Harms way and have been there don't really appreciate these arm chair warriors..to know whats its like to be taking fire from an opposing force...that wants to kill you....no matter what the cost....they want u real dead. You know what your the only one who responded to my post...didnt see any hands up .....yeah i was here and i was there....how can one be an authority on warfare if you havent experienced it...example given: just like having some new shave-tail coming into your company and trying to direct u into hostile fire....given the choice.....the new shave tail or an E- 6,7,8..? Do the math.

Thx for your input...and dont forget to chk your six buddy...Out!

obtw: i was a CW-2 Aviation RVN 71-73

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

OK windbag I will keep trying. And you keep bending history until the whole middle east mess 30 years later is not poor Jimmy's fault.

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

posessionannex (Anonymous) says:

I would agree, were it not for the fact that our nation is very profoundly weak militarily because it is a democracy.


I get your gist, but I don't think it's lost on the people just how quickly our forces were able to defeat's Saddam's army and topple his government. As much as the left wants to talk about us losing the war, we must stop and think about the other side's perspective to see if they are really winning the war.

For our enemies, harassing our troops and killing some here and there is not their goal. The ONLY way they can declare victory is by ousting us from the country. We are building permanent bases (and our huge embassy) and we plan to stay for a long time. No matter who the next president is, we aren't going to abandon those bases, and we won't abadon the government we've spent so much money and effort into establishing. We are there to stay, and that is defeat for our enemies.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

What Bush is doing here is not reflection. It is ignoring. It is denying the reality that he led America into a war of choice under false pretenses.

Stubborn determination does not equate to reflection or even to a policy. It is simply stubborn determination.

What a disaster Bush has been to this country.

The weight of 10 months feels heavier each day. This bozo needs to vacate and clear brush.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

"We are building permanent bases (and our huge embassy) and we plan to stay for a long time. No matter who the next president is, we aren't going to abandon those bases, and we won't abadon the government we've spent so much money and effort into establishing. We are there to stay, and that is defeat for our enemies."-Kansas778

We shouldn't be building bases and occupying countries in this manner. It only incites the enemy.

Spending money that we don't have. (It's the American way)

According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries.

How much is too much?

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

kansas778 is 100% correct. All this talk of pulling out is political fodder for some fool to believe.

If you would actually stop and think about it. This war is most likley about oil and the control of the land it comes from. Not sure about you folks but my world is in huge trouble without oil. I do my farming at the grocery store, and if the shelvs are empty I have no way to feed my family. No way to heat my home. No job to go to.

Would anyone else on this board have this same problem??

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says.....

What Bush is doing here is not reflection. It is ignoring. It is denying the reality that he led America into a war of choice under false pretenses.


Gotta give congress some credit for this debacle too.

Mkh 6 years, 9 months ago

Kansas778 "We are building permanent bases (and our huge embassy) and we plan to stay for a long time. No matter who the next president is, we aren't going to abandon those bases, and we won't abadon the government we've spent so much money and effort into establishing. We are there to stay, and that is defeat for our enemies."


This is complety true that this is the plan. Of course no one will pull the troops or the bases out of Iraq, except Ron Paul.

But the real elephant in the room here is money. The US is flat broke, beyond broke...insolvant. This will be how America crumbles into bleakness and despair, just like all other Empires who tried to maintain the impossible.

Where is the money going to come from? How many of you "Republicans" will be screaming for higher taxes to pay for the Iraqi military bases for years to come? Or the bases in the other 130 countries around the world?

The US Government has $53 Trillion in unfunded liabilities. Do you all even understand what that means?

I'm doubtful.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

"Gotta give congress some credit for this debacle too."

Agreed. Most congressional republicans are to blame, and John Kerry and Hillary Clinton have had a tough time living down their votes to authorize war.

They knew it was trumped up when they voted for it, but they lacked the political fortitude to be brave and to tell the truth. It was for political reasons they voted to authorize, and now they are paying the price.

Bushco lied and obfuscated and trumped up a nice little war of choice.

A war of choice that has resulted in 4000 dead Americans, thousands more gravely wounded, and a nearly bankrupt US of A.

Good going, Bushco.

georgeofwesternkansas 6 years, 9 months ago

Thanks again posessionannex.

The problem with most folks on this board is that they are to stupid to know they are stupid. And think that hard times are when cable tv goes out, and not being able to feed their children is only for "other countries" and never them. Wake up and smell the coffee folks, in ten years 100% of the US budget will go to social security and medicare. In the next ten years 33% of our population will be at your door to collect their social security check.

Jcjayhawk1 6 years, 9 months ago

"Do you remember what motivated Bin Ladin to attack in the first place?"- Scenebooster

Yea. McDonalds, freedom, kittens, and apple pie. Thats what some would have you believe.

They attacked us because of our foreign policy practices. Plain and simple.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

""I have vowed in the past, and I will vow so long as I'm president, to make sure that those lives were not lost in vain - that, in fact, there is an outcome that will merit the sacrifice," Bush said."

So, to make sure that troops sacrifices were in vain, he is willing to sacrifice more in vain.

What a dolt.

Sorry, George, but these troops have died in your war of choice, not of necessity. You lied and fear-mongered and lied some more to entangle us in this war.

These troop deaths are on your account, Bush. You are responsible. That is what is obvious in the here and now and will be in history.

Mr. Bush, you chose to sacrifice those troops. What a waste.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

Bush can rationalize all he wants, but the blood of 4000 american troops stains his smooth, unworked hands.

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

Jcjayhawk1 (Anonymous) says:

We shouldn't be building bases and occupying countries in this manner. It only incites the enemy.


Yes, it does tick them off. I'm sure Hitler was pretty pissed when we landed in Normandy too. Regardless of how angry the enemy gets, two countries have fallen to our armies, and that is a major defeat for their cause. The longer we stay, the more impotent they will look. Think about their situation:

Bin Laden called Afghanistan "the only Islamic country in the world" and now that version of an Islamic country has fallen and failed. Israel still stands, and they aren't going anywhere, and neither is the pro-western governments in countries like Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden wants to unite all muslims into one nation and get rid of all western influence, and he's further from that than ever. Al Qaeda is not getting any of its goals accomplished and that is thanks to our agressive actions to prevent them.

Is it dangerous to take agressive actions that will lead to agression in return? Yes, but I think it is far more dangerous to turn our backs to them and not face the danger now.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

"Is it dangerous to take agressive actions that will lead to agression in return? Yes, but I think it is far more dangerous to turn our backs to them and not face the danger now."

Agreed. We should have focused on Afghanistan and Bin Laden instead of entering a war of choice against Iraq.

Bin Laden is still alive and kicking. Afghanistan is teetering on Taliban rule again.

Remind me again of how Iraq and Saddam were connected to 9/11 and the war against Al Quaeda and Bin Laden?

Agressive action is a must.

Stupid, wrong-headed aggression such as invading and occupying Iraq is a disaster.

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

yourworst, Al Qaeda's stated goals in Iraq are to expel the US, establish an Islamic government, spread the conflict to Iraq's neighbors, and eventually destroy Israel. Now how do we defeat these goals other than by staying and fighting on?

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

anxiousatheist (Anonymous) says:

How does Bush look at his pitiful face in the mirror everyday? A war criminal to stupid realize his own doings:


Don't you mean, "too stupid"?

RedwoodCoast 6 years, 9 months ago

Had we not dissolved the (secular) Iraqi army then maybe sectarianism wouldn't have exploded like it has.

pisafromthewest 6 years, 9 months ago

Ah, yes, just checked in to get a load (and it is a load) of the Bush bashing.

Funny how's there's been no mention of Hillary "misspeaking" or making "a mistake" about her account of her visit to Bosnia in the Journal World. Wonder why.

Hillary is claiming to be the best candidate to be commander in chief. Now, if this is what she considers something so fearsome that she had to run to her car with her head ducked to avoid hostile sniper fire

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/03/20/PH2008032002697.jpg

and that's the best the Democrats can put up, I guess we can all see why the Democrats are scared spitless and want to run away.

(For those of you who prefer moving pictures, here's another link.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c

Now that's what I call a commander-in-chief, someone to take over the country in a time of war.

pisafromthewest 6 years, 9 months ago

Red_Peters (Anonymous) says:

"It's the 'taken out of context" defense."

Ya' know, I thought that at first. But try as I might, when she said "I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base," I just can't seem to find a 'context' that fits that picture I linked to:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/03/20/PH2008032002697.jpg

pisafromthewest 6 years, 9 months ago

scenebooster (Anonymous) says:

"I'm no Hillary fan..."

But you'll defend her anyway, because she's a Democrat, after all, right?

My comment was not posted here to "defend" anyone. I would have been glad to post it to a comment section connected to the story about Hillary's "mistake" in her recollection of the Bosnia visit, but gee, for some reason, the award winning LJW didn't see fit to print that particular story, that's been a major headline in most of the rest of the country. Just as they never printed the story when Hillary proposed eliminating the federal student loan program, which one might have thought was of interest to a significant portion of the LJW's readership. If anyone is "willfully blind," it's the sheeple who allow the press to spoonfeed them the virtues of Ms. Clinton, and cling to the hopes that if only we can put a Democrat in office next January, all the world's ills will be miraculously cured.

Whether or not one agrees with the current war, I presume you would acknowledge the need for a president to be willing to send troops into battle should the need arise? Ms. Clinton has built the Bosnia trip into quite a jewel in her crown, this is not the first time she's touted it. She has said that her husband regularly sent her to the trouble spots, the hot zones. Her contention, swallowed hook line and sinker by quite a few people, is that her experience as first lady somehow qualifies her to be commander in chief. And it turns out that her "recollections" of being rushed to a car, head ducked, to avoid sniper fire, was actually a small child handing her a flower. That's quite a "misspeak." Someone with "recollections" like that is someone I have a difficult time believing will make good decisions as to whether military force was warranted in some future situation. But hey, if you're okay with it, more power to ya'.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

"Al Qaeda in Iraq" is at best loosely affiliated with the real deal. True al Qaeda affiliates in Iraq represent something like 5% of the insurgency. Most of the insurgents are ex-Iraqi military and jobless youth.

We should be focusing on Afghanistan, where the real al qaeda , bin laden, and the taliban are based.

Again, mindless aggression is destructive. Those who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks are in afghanistan, not Iraq.

Use your brains instead of mindlessly lumping these groups together.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

There are lots of "bad guys" in the world, PA.

The trick is to prioritize which are the gravest threat. Otherwise, we will be fighting wars across the globe.

Iraq was/is a distraction from the "bad guys" that attacked us.

We toppled a secular dictator who, if anything, was keeping islamic extremism in check in Iraq. Who do you think populated Saddam's mass graves? Islamic insurgents that he was keeping in check by slaughtering them.

It is time to withdraw, but to keep a force nearby to ensure that the ensuing violence does not spread outside of Iraq, that al qaeda is kept from Iraq, and that Iran is kept in check.

If you disagree, then what should the mission of the USA be in Iraq? How will we know when to withdraw?

Enlighten me, please?

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

Windlass has a point. A democrat victory will begin the clean-up.

A republicanista victory will surely be the death knell of modern conservative republicanism.

Trouble is, it might be the end of the USA as well.

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

"I answered this, on another thread I say, if we hit 4007 casualties, we should bolt from the middle east:"

Actually funny.

But seriously, what is the US military mission in Iraq, and how will we know when to withdraw?

yourworstnightmare 6 years, 9 months ago

If you actualy read what was written above you would have seen it:

"It is time to withdraw, but to keep a force nearby to ensure that the ensuing violence does not spread outside of Iraq, that al qaeda is kept from Iraq, and that Iran is kept in check."

Your flip answer is funny, but it reveals a lack of conviction to state what you think the goals of the US military should be in Iraq.

I'm waiting, big talker.

kansas778 6 years, 9 months ago

Yourworst, regardless of whether you think we should have gone to Iraq in the first place, we are there now, and the relevent issue at hand is what to do next. Saying we should leave because we shouldn't have gone in the first place is not an acceptable line of reasoning because that ignores the present realities and our present goals.

Defeating Al Qaeda is more than just hunting them down, we must defeat their objectives as well. The world is still a big place, and Al Qaeda exists in many countries (obviously they existed even in the US), so we must defeat them in every way we can because completely eradicating them is unlikely.

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