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Archive for Friday, March 7, 2008

Lawmaker: Keep immigrant tuition

March 7, 2008

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— A key legislator said Thursday he opposes efforts to repeal a state law that allows in-state tuition for some undocumented students.

"That's a nonstarter, I think," state Sen. Pete Brungardt, R-Salina, and chairman of the Senate Federal and State Affairs Committee, said of repeal attempts.

Before the committee is a sweeping measure - Senate Bill 458 -that proponents say will reduce the number of illegal immigrants in Kansas. Opponents say the bill is an onerous, unworkable reaction to immigration concerns that should be tackled on the federal level.

Brungardt's committee conducted lengthy hearings on the bill during the past several days and is scheduled to work on the measure next week.

One provision of the bill would repeal a 2004 law that allows the children of some illegal immigrants to pay the same lower tuition rates as legal Kansans at state universities, community colleges and vocational schools. Under the law, the student must have lived in Kansas at least three years, graduated from a Kansas high school, and seek or promise to seek legal status.

Numerous attempts have been made to undo that law since its enactment, but they have all failed. Those opposed to the law say it is giving illegal immigrants an improper benefit.

Brungardt said the law should stand.

"The Senate has voted on that on three different occasions. I don't know why anybody would change their established record on that topic," he said.

In Kansas, 243 students are receiving the in-state tuition under the law, according to the Kansas Board of Regents. Most of those - 193 - are attending community colleges; 46 are at state universities, including 11 at Kansas University; three are at technical schools; and one is at a technical college.

During hearings on the bill, representatives of religious, social service and education groups testified in support of the existing law.

Many said the students are here illegally "through no fault of their own" because their parents brought them here when they were children.

"Why would we want to deprive a young man or woman from the opportunity to develop their skills and abilities so that they will be a productive and contributing member of our society?" asked Archbishop Joseph Naumann of Kansas City, Kan., who also is chairman of the Kansas Catholic Conference.

Comments

davidsmom 6 years, 9 months ago

I would be in favor of documenting the parents' attempts to gain legal status before granting in-state tuition to their children, and modify the law to grant it only on specified conditions of the parents' actions. In virtually everything in life, the choices of parents affects their children, and this is no different. If the children didn't get in-state tuition, maybe that would be an incentive for the parents to make the effort to do what they need to do. Right now, they have no incentive.

KS 6 years, 9 months ago

If employers are expected to be punished for employing illegals, then the State of Kansas needs to do their time too. No tuition breaks for illegals.

kcsparky 6 years, 9 months ago

This, and the laws to allow illegals to get a checking account with no ID, and car insurance with no ID were all helped along and pushed thru with support from Sebelius a few years ago. Then last year during elections, she was riding the stance how she fights illegal immigration, and everything she has done to prevent it.

Evidentally she changed her mind, but now that she got it all passed, she can't get rid of it.

OnlyTheOne 6 years, 9 months ago

What part of "illegal" do these whoopie lawyers in Topeka not understand?

more "dummies!"

TedSmith1333 6 years, 9 months ago

These kids do not have access to any financial aid.

Davidsmom, you mean more incentive than seeing your kids possibly live without a future?

Many people assume these parents have an alternative, a way to get legalized and they are just being lazy about it. That couldn't be further from the truth, many would love to have a way to "get in line", unfortunately that line does not exist.

On the same note, these kids don't have a way of going back and "doing it the right way". They were forced into this situation and we should not punish them for it!

jafs 6 years, 9 months ago

I agree children should not be punished for their parents' actions.

But, granting in-state tuition to illegal immigrants is absurd.

If they are here illegally, then they are not legal residents of the state in which they live.

They would then be eligible to attend universities and pay out-of-state tuition rates, just like other residents of other states.

Or, non-legal residents of the US should have no access to any governmentally sponsored schools or services at all. After all, these services are paid for by legal citizens and intended for use by us.

Also, no one is ever promised the ability to move and become a citizen of another country - the fact that one would like to do so and is unable to is not a justification of the decision to enter illegally.

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

Ted, the line exists . . . it's in Mexico. Many Mexicans are legally in line to gain access to the USA and its opportunities. Illegals know where the line is, they choose not to enter that way.

Once some form of restraint on illegal immigration is in place I'm confident the children will find their way back to Mexico and into the legal line.

Someone sneaking onto my property and illegally living in my crawl space never earns the right to sit at my dinner table. They have to be allowed in through the front door the same way I welcome my family and friends.

scott3460 6 years, 9 months ago

Something like 80% of the American public wants the illegal invasion stopped, but the special self interests of the politicians on the left and the right conspire to thwart the will of the American public. The fool mentioned supporting in-state tuition for out of state illegals in this article does not deserve the continued privilige of serving as on of our elected leaders. Get educated on the illegal immigration stance of all candidates this November and vote out every single one of them that has sided with the illegals or the criminal employers who hire them, rather than with the vast, vast, vast majority of American citizens who do not want their countryside fouled by these unwanted hordes of criminals.

Beth Bird 6 years, 9 months ago

This is not fair! I just graduated from college, was born and raised in the USA, and have over $40,000.00 in student loans. One of my best friends who I go to school with just had her identity stolen by ILLEGAL immigrants so they could obtain jobs. She is being audited by the IRS for income she did not claim because she did not make it! This is ruining her life. If they are ILLEGAL, then they do not belong here. No tuition breaks, no special treatment - DEPORT THEM! If you want to complete the process for citizenship, great! If not, get out!

TedSmith1333 6 years, 9 months ago

Jafs, In-state tuition is for those who reside within a specific state and also pay taxes, not just legal citizens.

If you have a child who has lived in Kansas for 15 of his 18 years, his family has paid taxes and contributed to the community, then they certainly are a resident for tuition purposes.

A person from out of state or from another country has contributed nothing to Kansas or any specific community within Kansas, therefore, they should not be able to reap the benefits, such as in-state tuition.

You are naive to assume illegal aliens, both young and old, do not contribute to this system which you say is "intended for use by us." I know many do not know this, but up until the late 1990's or early 2000 illegal aliens could request and receive a VALID Social Security Number, a number which is then used to put money into the system. A recent article quoted the SSA as saying over 7 Billion dollars was collected, just last year, from illegal aliens.

If a child is brought to this country without permission at the age of 3, if that child's parents have continually paid taxes into the system, if that child lives in the state of Kansas, has attended school there then that child deserves a chance to go to college there at the same rate as his/her peers.

jaketh 6 years, 9 months ago

This bill has nothing to do with educating or not educating kids of migrants. Its all about the fear factor. The greatest fear is fear itself.

It has less do with border security & more to do with cultural security. We fear their language, culture & way of life is polluting our good ol American life. There are 11 million of them in the US. They are not going to go away just because Kansas or some state passes the law.

We can pass as many laws as we want. But it has to be enforced. Enforcement is the key... This is where it will get tricky. We already have a federal law that should be tackling this issue but it is not because it is not enforced.

You know why? Because its economics stupid. We all benefit from their cheap labor yet we decry their presence. We can't have our cake & eat it too. Amidst an economic recession, it will make matters even worse. Its supply & demand. Go to the store to buy a loaf of bread right now.

This is all an election year political gimmick. Passing the law is not going to solve the problem, it is just merely passing the buck on. They will just move to another state.

TedSmith1333 6 years, 9 months ago

Happy, Identity fraud is not only an issue involving illegal immigrants, many more legal immigrants and also citizens engage in such activity. And so blaming an entire group of people for the actions of a few is not at all appropriate.

Why do you bring up the notion that you have student loans? You seem to think an undocumented student would not have the same loans? As has been said before, the Dream Act does not provide for financial aid and so students would have the same, if not more, debts as you.

TedSmith1333 6 years, 9 months ago

"Once some form of restraint on illegal immigration is in place I'm confident the children will find their way back to Mexico and into the legal line."

You would then be wrong. Only about 60% of illegal immigrants are from Mexico, the rest are from... well the rest of the world.

You are also wrong in assuming that a line exists for undocumented children. As soon as these kids step foot outside of the United States they are banned from re-entering for 10years. It is very rare for someone who has lived illegally in the States to ever get a chance to come back here through the current means available. Again, no line exists for these children and so thank you for agreeing that REFORM is needed to make sure that there are legal avenues for these children to pursue to become legal.

All that said, what do we gain by turning away educated children? Keeping in mind, of course, that every day we are importing thousands of educated foreigners to do the same jobs that these kids could do... nursing shortage anyone? I don't know about you but I would rather my nurse be someone who has lived in the US since the age of three rather than someone who just arrived here six months ago.

stoe31 6 years, 9 months ago

Most of these kids are going to stay here legally or not. They know no other country. This is the only home they have ever known and I feel sorry for them. They didn't chose to be in this situation and now they pay for it. Lets educate them now so they can be productive later on. A lot of opposition to these measures is based on uninformed assumptions. The economic advantages of a higher education for both workers and the economy are clear. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, workers who lacked a high-school diploma in 2006 earned an average of only $419 per week and had an unemployment rate of 6.8 percent. In contrast, workers with a bachelor's degree earned $962 per week and had an unemployment rate of 2.3 percent, while those with a doctorate earned $1,441 and had an unemployment rate of only 1.4 percent.

Plus immigrants pay taxes, it's a myth that most don't. http://immigration.server263.com/images/File/factcheck/Undocumented%20as%20Taxpayer%2011-29-07.pdf

storm 6 years, 9 months ago

If a child attends Kansas schools, that child should pay in-state tuition. If his/her parents are illegal immigrants, this is not the child's fault. This is the same difference for children of convicted felons whose children are allowed in-state tuition.

Beth Bird 6 years, 9 months ago

Ted: I am not blaming illegals for all identity theft. I am saying that if they are not a citizen of this country, are not on a visa, or other legal way to be in this country - they need to get out! They should not recieve special treatment - They should be deported!

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

On the one hand, I agree it's not the kids' fault their parents came here illegally. But it's ridiculous to have them "promise to seek legal status" without any kind of follow-up.

Include the paperwork for citizenship as part of the application. They either start the process of becoming citizens now, or they don't get the tuition break. Remember that while it may not be their fault their parents came here years ago, virtually all of them will be legal adults before the end of their first semester, and now it's their responsibility to become legal residents if they want the benefits that go with residency.

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

Ted, have you nothing better to cry about today?

"Keeping in mind, of course, that every day we are importing thousands of educated foreigners to do the same jobs that these kids could do: nursing shortage anyone? I don't know about you but I would rather my nurse be someone who has lived in the US since the age of three rather than someone who just arrived here six months ago."

Why are you so hung up on children who came here at 3 yoa? You mentioned that age more than once. What about kids who were 12 years of age and learned to lie and hide because they know they should not be here?

Legally these kids can't even work!! Why is that? Because they are ILLEGAL! If they work it will be illegally. Someone will not have obeyed the law in hiring them. btw, are you here legally?

Oh, wait, I didn't realize you were THAT TedSmith1333!! The TedSmith1333 that is a total expert and has only valid opinions based on 100% verifiable information. I am soooo sorry.

storm 6 years, 9 months ago

blue73harley - When convicted felons go to jail, the children usually don't go with them. Same difference for children of illegal immigrants, those children deserve in-state tuition because they attended Kansas schools.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

storm (Anonymous) says:

"When convicted felons go to jail, the children usually don't go with them. Same difference for children of illegal immigrants, those children deserve in-state tuition because they attended Kansas schools."

However when the children grow up to commit crimes of their own, they do go to jail like their parents. And once these kids turn 18, they're here illegally as adults responsible for their own actions, not because they're the children of illegals. I'm not saying deport them - just make them sign up to become legal residents before giving them resident tuition.

newsreader 6 years, 9 months ago

Legal Kansas Residents = In-State Rates Out of State Students = Out of State Rates

Why is that hard to understand?

fascinating_person 6 years, 9 months ago

I find it completely appalling that any self-proclaimed patriotic American would support denying the youth in this country - here legally or not - the opportunity to educate themselves. The costs of college education are too much for so many as it is. Why push it out of reach for even more of America's future generation? How could that possibly benefit our country?

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

Why push it out of reach for even more of America's future generation? Is this a trick question?

Hello! How can they be America's future generation when they are not Americans?

geekin_topekan 6 years, 9 months ago

A stipulation of the dirt-cheap tuition is that they seek or at least promise to seek,citizenship. Personally I am all for it."legalize' 'em and give 'em FREE tuition I say.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

fascinating_person (Anonymous) says:

"I find it completely appalling that any self-proclaimed patriotic American would support denying the youth in this country - here legally or not - the opportunity to educate themselves."

Well, first of all, nobody is denying anyone anything. Getting rid of the in-state tuition for illegal immigrants doesn't deny them an education, it still allows them to go to KU, paying the same tuition as any American kid from Chicago or LA or Seattle or Miami or NYC.

And second, some of us (including myself) are saying it's fine to give them the in-state tuition regardless of how they got to this country, as long as they actually start the process of becoming legal residents, on their own, since most of them are old enough (or very soon will be) to take responsibility for themselves and their own legal issues.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

Ceallach (Anonymous) says:

"Well as long as they "promise.""

Aw, come on, Ceallach, someone who's breaking federal law every day of their life just by virtue of their being here wouldn't go back on a promise they made as part of their school application, would they?

Kathy Getto 6 years, 9 months ago

There is no point in debating this issue because it is obviously not fact-driven, but here are a few thoughts:

The number of children doing this are so small it has nothing to with the University system;

Which of your parent's or grandparent's actions would you be willing to suffer for?

In a difficult economy, if some of you get your wish and they "all go back to Mexico", how much are you willing to see prices increase for those items you use everyday?

Ted Smith - one does not have to be an "expert" to feel compassion and express viable thoughts. Keep up the good work.

mick 6 years, 9 months ago

The Kansas Chamber of Commerce desperately wants the cheap labor afforded by illegal immigration. It is just as morally reprehensible as their keeping the minimum wage down. They own these politicians.

staff04 6 years, 9 months ago

In 2004, I researched this subject and as it turned out, despite all the xenophobia, was that fewer than 40 students had even applied for relief under this law. Kathy Getto is right. Find another excuse than cost to deny graduates of KS high schools the opportunity to obtain a college degree.

geekin_topekan 6 years, 9 months ago

Finally,someone is able to see the big picture.Thanks Mick. (oh,it is much bigger than our local chamber but yiou are on the right track).

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

No doubt some of you grew up in a different world than did I, good for you. For most of my childhood my father was an alcoholic. My siblings and I paid year in and year out for his decisions. As an adult I made my own mistakes, and when I did my children were right there in the mess with me. There were no bleeding hearts trying to pave my road. There are plenty of American children that desperately need your compassion and advocacy. Why not put yourself out for them? Or would that take more than espousing your kind heart and humanity through an internet forum?

I am not against illegals personally, I am against what they are doing to this country. They have nearly wrecked the healthcare providers in South Texas and New Mexico. Arizona and other border states are also pleading for relief before their healthcare systems go under. You have to look beyond what makes you feel good about yourself and see the reality of a number of people (large enough to form a small country) acting as parasites on our nation's economy. Greedy Americans are behind so much of this political crappiness, er I mean, political correctness. They do no favor to their country or the illegal aliens.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says:

"Which of your parent's or grandparent's actions would you be willing to suffer for?"

And I'll say it one more time:

By the end of their first semester, these "kids" will be 18 years old and adults. At that point it is no longer their parents' actions causing them to be illegals, it is their own choice not to become citizens.

John Kyle 6 years, 9 months ago

what a bunch of racists. immigration is a federal issue, not a state issue. the students are paying their sales tax like every other kansas resident are entitled to instate tuition. why don't you racists just shut the f up.

toefungus 6 years, 9 months ago

Our Republican leadership is pathetic. They are weak, unprincipled, and directionless. A self serving Democratic Governor can rule over them with hardly any effort. No free public education for illegals. Jail the person hiring them, too.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

beobachter (Anonymous) says:

"Show me where they are not making effort to become legal."

Show us the evidence that even one of them who's gotten the instate tuition break went on and fulfilled their "promise."

Otherwise what's the problem with including the citizenship application in with the school application? If they're really following along with their promise to pursue citizenship, then it would be just helping them out, right?

Geez it's tiring when people throw around the racist label for asking that people obey the law. You were probably one of the people who believed Last Call was being persecuted for its clientele.

ebyrdstarr 6 years, 9 months ago

According to the actual statute, to get the in-state tuition rate, the student must file an affidavit, which carries penalty of perjury, stating either that the student has filed a petition for legal status or will do so as soon as the student becomes eligible (turns 18).

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

ebyrdstarr (Anonymous) says:

"According to the actual statute, to get the in-state tuition rate, the student must file an affidavit, which carries penalty of perjury, stating either that the student has filed a petition for legal status or will do so as soon as the student becomes eligible (turns 18)."

Wow. "which carries penalty of perjury." As opposed to merely being here every day carrying the penalty of deportation. Yep, I bet that's a big persuader, all right. Especially when nobody follows up!

Somebody who risks deportation every time they leave their house certainly wouldn't dare risk the stiff penalties associated with lying on a piece of paper. [rolling eyes]

ebyrdstarr 6 years, 9 months ago

I just thought you would like to know what the actual requirements of the statute were. No need to roll your eyes at me.

I don't know why you claim there's no follow-up. Do you have information on that point or are you just assuming that? When I was a student, I know I had a lot of contact with the bursar's office about my tuition, school loans, etc. The friends of mine who had to establish they were eligible for in-state tuition had even more contact. It seems likely to me that there would be follow-up for these students seeking the in-state rate as well.

Godot 6 years, 9 months ago

No student who does not have proof of citizenship or the required student visa should be allowed to attend any Kansas school of education. The price of admission is irrelevant.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

ebyrdstarr (Anonymous) says:

"I don't know why you claim there's no follow-up. Do you have information on that point or are you just assuming that?"

I was remembering something someone else posted to a different thread related to this a while back, about how for the most part, the school can't even ask about immigration status. I really don't feel like going back and looking it up, so if it makes you feel better call it an assumption.

But let me ask you this: In this follow-up with the bursar's office, were your friends ever asked anything about citizenship status?

For that matter, when they registered, did they have to provide some kind of documentation that they were state residents, or were they allowed to just sign an affidavit? Is there some reason why these students who can't supply a social security number shouldn't be asked to actually show a copy of their citizenship application as proof they've applied, just as your firends had to show a driver's license or voter ID card or whatever that said they lived here?

Unless someone wants to prove otherwise, I'll stick to my assumption that nobody follows up, any more than they do with voter registration (in which there is absolutely no followup, according to a recent LJW story).

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

This is amazing.

  1. Why do illegals come to the US? They don't come here for the climate; they don't come here to vote. They come here for the jobs. They scrimp and save as much as possible from their incomes to send millions of dollars back to their country of origin.

  2. What do you call a child of an illegal born in the US? An American citizen. Wrongly or rightly, they have the same citizenship rights as anyone else born here. Can't deport them.

  3. Those illegals working for a paycheck, have taxes withheld and usually don't file for a refund. Seems like they're paying their way.

  4. Illegals may very well have an impact on the health care systems of the Southwest. Since health care is messed up all across the US, I don't know if they're to blame alone.

  5. Hiring illegals keeps wages low for American workers, if those American workers would actually do the work. In most cases, illegals do the jobs which Americans now believe are below them or pay too little. Throughout American history, the group dominating immigration at the time, whether it be the Irish, the German, the Italian, the Chinese, the Eastern European, or the Southeast Asian gravitated to the least appealing job in the market. Over time, these groups are assimulated and improve their economic status. And, there was contemporaneous hostility to these groups when they were coming here.

  6. Immediate deportation of 12 million illegals would only increase the air going out of the economy. No one would have any doubt about the recession then.

  7. Face reality, there are millions of illegals here.They produce for the economy. They earn wages and pay taxes. Some, overstay their welcome. Others "fly under the radar screen" and are never noticed. The majority don't want to become citizens; they want to work as "guest workers". Devise a mechanism and procedure to get it going. Then, you can find out who they are. Get them licensed so you know they can drive, because they will drive whether they have a license or not, just like lots of real Americans.

And, come on, get real...the issue of illegals is propelled by racism. Everyone refers to the "Mexicans", but not all of them are from there. How about the Russian "mafia" types? And, Asians or Eastern Europeans also come here illegally.

The problem won't go away easily. Deportation isn't a valid reality. Continuing with a leaking border isn't reasonable either. Find a compromise; set up a guest worker program; and deal with realty that they're here. To do otherwise is baying at the moon.

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

kubacker says "and I would gladly pay quadruple what it now costs for a GD tomato to get rid of these country destroying parasites."

Gosh, that's right. I really would like to get rid of the "K Street" lobbyists who've buddied up to the Republican administration.

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

This is total lunacy..

"Surely they are fluent in Spanish, as they must still communicate with their parents who simply refuse to learn English while they are here playing our system.Maybe with their education, they can help make their home country a place to be proud of, instead of the nation of parasites they are now."

Their parents are too busy working to learn English beyond the workplace language. I suppose you would have sent my father, a 3rd generation American of German ancestry, back to Germany since his first language was German so he could have fought for the Wermacht instead of the US Marine Corps and earn his college degree.

If you had ever talked with with a child of an illegal, you probably wouldn't know it. They speak English because they've attended school in that language. Their Spanish is verbal and not complete. (What teenager wants to communicate with their parents?) They're socialized as Americans. They have as much affinity towards Mexico as you do.

Their home country is America. They're far less parasitic than "native" Americans who sit at home, have babies and receive assistance. I suspect that if you didn't have illegals to dump on, you'd have targeted this group for deportation..

Your racism shines through.

Kathy Getto 6 years, 9 months ago

Well said, hepburn. It is all about the fear factor.

"People hate each other because they fear each other, they fear each other because they do not know each other. they do not know each other because they so often are separated from each other" Martin Luther King

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

Hepburn (Anonymous) says:

"2. What do you call a child of an illegal born in the US? An American citizen. Wrongly or rightly, they have the same citizenship rights as anyone else born here. Can't deport them."

And this issue has nothing to do with those children, the legal ones, only the ones who are not citizens.


Valkyrie_of_Reason (Kathy Getto) says:

"It is all about the fear factor."

That garbage is getting really old. It is not "the fear factor" or racism or anything like that to ask that people follow the law.

storm 6 years, 9 months ago

Children of illegal immigrants are citizens if they were born here..therefore they should not be discriminated against because of their parents' decisions, which is what out-of-state tuition is.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

storm (Anonymous) says:

"Children of illegal immigrants are citizens if they were born here..therefore they should not be discriminated against because of their parents' decisions, which is what out-of-state tuition is."

And one MORE time: That's not the kids we're talking about. Although the article couches it in softer terms like "undocumented," we're talking about kids who are illegals themselves, not the ones who were born here. And while it was their parents' decision to bring them here, once they turn 18 they are breaking the law of their own accord by not pursuing citizenship.

Kathy Getto 6 years, 9 months ago

notajayhawk

The fear factor theory IS far-fetched, but no more so than saying "those" children are going to take away an opportunity for anyone else; no more so than saying their parents and grandparents took jobs away from hard-working Americans that really, really wanted those jobs. The problem here is not with the illegal aliens, but with those that provide the low-paying jobs, and a government that does not enforce the law to its full extent. All the rest is pure emotion.

notajayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

Valkyrie_of_Reason;

Except this particular issue doesn't have anything to do with any of that. It's a real simple matter, if they want in-state tuition then they should be legal state residents. Let them prove (not promise) they've started the application process before they get in-state tuition.

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

"Their home country is America. They're far less parasitic than "native" Americans who sit at home, have babies and receive assistance. I suspect that if you didn't have illegals to dump on, you'd have targeted this group for deportation..

Your racism shines through."

Hepburn, it appears your racism toward Native Americans is what is shining through.

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

Yea, right Ceallach, you sure know.

If you would read the comment as written, "native" is in lower case and obviously refers to those born in the territorial United States. You use "Native Americans" with a capitalized "N" to refer to all peoples of indigenous populations living in American prior to European immigration.

Either you are super sensitive or unable to distinquish the difference.

It was written in such a fashion to see if the bait would be taken and you did. The old stereotype was the "welfare" family, etc., for all of those negative types. They now have the new fad of dumping on illegals.

Yiour effort trying to turn the statement around is very weak.

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

Or maybe I'm both super sensitive and unable to distinguish the difference. I think you may have forgotten that one. What a twicky wabbit you are. You are so bright it is positively scary. Ewwwww.

Dumping on illegals is not a fad, it is national defense. How did the son of a Marine, a KU basketball fan, who also likes Battlestar Gallactica and Lord of the Rings become so intolerant of Americans wanting to defend every state's right to limit its "welfare" and resident's benefits to legal residents?

Bettybb 6 years, 9 months ago

1, The illegals' arrogance has no bounds.

2, The US taxpayer has already paid 97% of the cost of having and raisng these kids.

  1. No illegal alien should have greater rights than a US citizen. Out of state Americans should have in state tutiion if illegals are going to have it.

  2. These illegals ARE NOT KIDS. At 18 they have a choice; return to their country or be a criminal like their parents.

  3. America should NEVER REWARD CRIMINALS.

  4. These illegals are parasites wanting A FREE RIDE.

If they want to be America and do not want to apply throuhg the normal process, THEY CAN JOIN THE US MILITARY. The son of friends, a European raised here on a legal visa, wanted to become American, and did not want to chance the application process. He did his 2 tours in Iraq and is now a proud American. HE EARNED IT.

  1. Why educate people who will not be allowed to remain or work in the USA?

  2. With embassies, international business, parents of different nationalities and over 700 US military bases abroad, each year there are milllions of 18 year olds in the same situation, raised in a foreign country. They do not whine for special treatment, paid college, citizenship.

  3. This tuition break IS A RACIST PREFERENCE FOR HISPANICS.. Bush and the Dems left the southern border open on purpose so that basically Mexican would come in and start the integration process for the North American Union. Amnesty is one step in that process.

The airports were not left open; and it worked, at least 80% if not more of the illegals are Hispanic, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.

All American should have an equal right to have their family and ethnic group come to the USA illegally and get a tuition break.

How about legal visa holders? Do they get a tuition break? Why not?

How about legal immigrants waiting to come in. How come they are not let in and given a tuition break?

HISPANICS ARE NOT BETTER THAN ANY ONE ELSE

HISPANICS SHOULD NOT HAVE MORE RIGHTS THAN ANYONE ELSE.

ENOUGH OF THIS RACIST PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT FOR HISPANICS.

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

Ceallach, guess you know me.

Assuming that you do know me, you'd know why I've talked with hundreds of people in Lawrence who might be considered as illegal. None have expressed a desire to become American citizens, All, with the exception of a very few who would qualify for assylum, want to work, work, work and then return home. It's their kids who get used to the concept of staying since this is the country where they grew up.

Rather than being "parasites", these folks work harder than any group in America. After they get here, they become economic slaves to their jobs. Their presence keeps down costs AND wages.

The problem is not the individual who crosses the border, but the lack of a federal policy that covers the issue of alien workers. If the economic insentive wasn't here, there wouldn't be the reason to cross the border. If there was some leadership from Washington, there would be a national policy. Sending 12 million illegals back to whereever tomorrow would sink the economy. The individuals who may be "illegal" aren't really the problem, it's the lack of a policy, direction.

My Marine father taught me to be just to everyone, regardless of who they are. I try to incoporate that into my daily life. He also taught me to be realistic. Not to focus on the individual here, but what the problem is and it address it.

For instance, I once asked him if he ever thought of fighting for the flag, Mom and apple pie when in combat in the Pacific. The response was "I never fought for the flag, never saw it on Guadalcanal, you know Grandma can't cook so who would eat her apple pie, but I did fight to stay alive, keeping my buddies alive and drinking a cold beer someday."

The point is to be realistic, deal with the problem and not get hung up on appearances. Focus not on the individuals, but the policy. Illegals are here and sustaining the economy. Be realistic. Be sensible. Most illegals are people just trying to survive. Yes, there are some bad apples in the group, like any population. As a whole the group is not "arrogant" or "demanding". They're here because our national leaders have abdicated their responsibility and there is no coherent policy regarding them. If anything cries out for a national law, this is it. Get it together, get a national policy and address this issue so that individuals can be treated fairly. Come up with a solution that no one likes, but must accept. In other words, compromise!

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

I have spoken with 3 individuals today who could be considered as potentially being illegal workers.

One indicated that he doesn't want to return to Mexico because his family, two children, is now here.

The other two indicated that they are only here for the work and income. They plan to return to Mexico upon saving sufficient money.

Neither of the three individuals intend on taking or using governmental assistance. All have employers who withhold, but the likelihood of receiving any refund is unlikely.

One works in construction and two in the restaurant business. Are these "parasites"?

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

Hepburn, I may very well know you, Lawrence is not that big, but I only know what I read from your profile. It only sounded familiar because it reminded me of . . . me :}

We just see things differently. The three individuals you talked with today just verified that they do not want to be Americans. One wants to be here because he wants to be a father to his children, the other two are just waiting until they have enough money to return home and spend the money there. So many illegals send money (billions a year) back to their home country. I see that as a billion + dollars draining from our economy. I see that as parasitic. If our economy's only stability rests on the backs of workers who spend their lives in the shadows, what does that say about us? Maybe we should be responsible enough to take the charge and get ourselves back on level economic ground. I'm not against a worker's visa program, I just don't think we should accept an amnesty, kiss and make up, policy extended to all illegals. Reagan tried that and it seemed to encourage more and more to come into our country illegally.

Enuf said on my part. We probably won't change each other's minds. Thank God we still live where we can agree to disagree. I'm currently counting down to the beginning of the last season of Battlestar Gallactica, how about you?

geekin_topekan 6 years, 9 months ago

Bettybbs is pure comedy!!97% of their child raising has been paid for them??HAHAHAhhaaaheeheehee!Where'd you come up with that number?I would like to see your source for those numbers.Maybe from the KKK/Minuteman site? Sounds like betty could use the education.I am assuming that she has graduated with a HS diploma(or equivilent)of course. The "illegals" that are receiving the tuition break must apply for and actively be seeking resident status and I am praying for them that they receive it by the time they graduate from KU and are able to return to their homeland if they choose or,remain and show others from their nation how to negotiate our system and advance beyond these lunatic ravings.Actually,it doesnt take a degree to advance past most of these..snickersnicker...cough...heeheehee.......

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

Ceallach:

While we do see things differently, we do have some agreements.

I don't mind the billions going overseas. First, it's earned through work, unless it's drug money. If that money didn't go overseas, the US government would have to be giving it as foreign aid in order to keep there from being chaos and revolution. At least, we are getting something from foreign aid for the first time ever.

I very much agree with you that this isn't a healthy development for our country. No one should have such questionable status that they can't change jobs or are economic slaves.

I'm not in favor of a flat amnesty either. Would such encourage further illegal immigration? I don't know.

What I do want to see is some sort of coherent policy that controls these developments. I don't like the sound of "Guest Worker" program, but it maybe something we have to live with in the future. I'd like to have people get an ID (potentially driver's license) so that we know who they are and can identify them. I don't mean citizenship either. Create a special class for those who have questionable ID.

We can't solve this in the Kansas legislature. I'd like to see the Federal government come up with an universal plan. Compromise solution if necessary. That will curb illegal presence more than building a barrier along the border.

And, are you expecting a Cylon invasion of the 3rd planet from the sun? Seems like the good guys in Battlestar Galactica are finding earth. There are so many plot twists to this, I don't know where it's going.

Wait, couldn't we consider the Cylons as illegal illegals? They just won't be invited into our "Guest Worker" program.

Kyle Reed 6 years, 9 months ago

Charging out of state tuition isn't punishing them. They aren't a legal resident of the state and should pay accordingly just the same as anyone else that isn't a legal resident of Kansas.

scott3460 6 years, 9 months ago

"One works in construction and two in the restaurant business. Are these "parasites"?"

Yes. They have stolen three jobs that could, and should, be held by an American citizen.

Taxpayers are likely paying unemployment benefits or welfare benefits to the family of the Americans. I, for one, would love to see my fellow citizens working and the tax rolls reduced. I have no great interest in letting an employer break the law just so that he can skim a little more profit.

If you know these people, please tell them to leave. They should go home and forge a better life for themselves in their own land. They are not wanted here.

Shelley Bock 6 years, 9 months ago

Naw, they're working.

Don't know if they've stolen anyone's jobs. i suspect that American's wouldn't work their jobs.

Yes, I do agree with you about getting American's to work. I'm not pleased with the employer squeezing out some profits with the non-Americans.

The real problem is with the American employer willing to hire. Increase and enforce the penalties and the issue is resolved.

I won't tell them to go home. You want them to return to Mexico because of unemployment costs? Well, you're going to have to pay for child support for the two American kids one of them has who are home, but won't have a father for support. Net savings?

jaketh 6 years, 9 months ago

Yes. They have stolen three jobs that could, and should, be held by an American citizen.- Scott

Your so called these people are not going to leave. It is called a supply & demand. There is a demand for low skilled workers in this country as we, Americans will not do the menial jobs. It is demeaning & below us. We think it does not pay enough or are just plain lazy.

The answer is always these people are taking jobs from Americans. That is a bunch of bs... Show me Americans breaking their backs harvesting lettuce for 12 hours straight in 95 degrees heat, show me Americans slaughtering animals in the slaugter houses, show me Americans doing roofing etc.

The answer is it does not pay enough for American workers. Just like manufacturing going southwards, commercial farming is also going southwards.

Go ask a farmer, a contractor or a small business owner about how many Americans show up for jobs & actually work. You have no idea.

Your dish that you ate out in a restaurant was probably washed by one. The bed you slept in a hotel was probably made by one. The lawn that you walk on probably was cut by one.

You (& I plus many people) enjoy the benefits of their hard work, yet, we decry their presence. Then, get out there & work. If you, yourself cannot do it & someone is doing it for for a fraction of the cost, then, we should be grateful. This way we can live our blissful American life.

Ceallach 6 years, 9 months ago

"The real problem is with the American employer willing to hire. Increase and enforce the penalties and the issue is resolved."

BINGO! That would go a long way toward controlling illegal immigration. No money, no incentive. Greedy businesses not only keep illegals here and more coming, in some cases the illegals are kept in horrendous conditions while they work off the "loan" of money to get them here.

I do not understand why so many people are against a border barrier between the US and Mexico. I favor the fence and surveillance. It's not a new concept, in fact, having so many open areas is ridiculous when a country knows it has an ever growing illegal alien population.

Yes, I am concerned about the Cylons. They wouldn't have to invade, they could just walk across the border. Seems no one knows for sure if they are or are not a Cylon : Who knows, maybe all this border ruckus is a ploy to keep our minds off of a much greater threat.

Manana

jaketh 6 years, 9 months ago

As for ku backer,

You probably need to get your "back" checked. You were breaking your "back" in hot sun picking lettuce. Your "back" was bloodied slaughtering animals. Your "back" was soaked wet in th heat doing roofing. Sounds to me like a "wet back."

Are you?

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