Archive for Thursday, January 24, 2008

Immigration bill targets employers

Democrats would retain in-state tuition for some children of undocumented parents

January 24, 2008


— House Democratic legislators Wednesday unveiled a proposal that they said would reduce illegal immigration by making employers more accountable.

But unlike a Republican measure unveiled in the Senate, the Democrats' proposal keeps in place the current opportunity for the children of some undocumented immigrants to pay the less expensive in-state tuition for higher education.

There have been many attempts to repeal the so-called in-state tuition law, but they have all failed.

Sen. Peggy Palmer, R-Augusta, has introduced another bill that would attempt to repeal it. She said the 2004 law should be eliminated because it provides a public benefit to people who are living in Kansas illegally.

But House Democrats said the proposal was too divisive and could scuttle measures that have more support.

"I think that's a tired debate," said Rep. Ann Mah, D-Topeka. "We've been over that time and time again."

Under that law, the student must have lived in Kansas at least three years, graduated from a Kansas high school and seek or promise to seek legal status. In Kansas, 243 students currently benefit from the law, according to the Kansas Board of Regents.

Both the House Democrats' and Palmer's proposal would prohibit businesses from knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. It would also require businesses to verify employees' status through a federal government database.

At a news conference, House Minority Leader Dennis McKinney, D-Greensburg, said focusing on employers would remove the "magnet" that lures illegal immigrants.

Rep. Tom Holland, D-Baldwin City, said because undocumented workers will often work for less pay, that drives down the pay of many in the work force.

"Illegal immigration erodes the wages of working Kansas families," Holland said. Several of Holland's proposals are included in the House Democrats' plan.

Reps. Barbara Ballard and Paul Davis, both Democrats from Lawrence, also attended the news conference.


Haiku_Cuckoo 10 years, 5 months ago

Mitt Romney is the only presidential candidate will work for American Citizens. -illegal aliens need to get in line like everybody else out of the country.

The illegals will get in soon as they finish painting Romney's mansion.

delta777 10 years, 5 months ago

Mitt Romney is the only presidential candidate will work for American Citizens.

He has the best plan for the ECONOMY, stimulus and illegal immigration (unleash economic capital, reduce the burden on OLDER AMERICANS --ILLEGAL ALIENS need to GET IN LINE like everybody else out of the country).

4 years ago --- before the illegals marched in our streets --- Romney opposed a bill that would have allowed illegal aliens to get drivers licenses. "Those who are here illegally should not receive tacit support from our government that gives an indication of legitimacy," the governor said.(Scott S. Greenberger, "Romney Stand Dims Chances Of License For Undocumented," The Boston Globe, 10/28/03)

--- Romney vetoed a bill in 2004 that would have permitted illegal aliens to pay the same in-state tuition rate paid by citizens at public colleges and universities in Massachusetts.

Gov. Romney had Massachusetts's State troopers trained to work with ICE

--Huckabee - slick talker, 12 ethical charges filed against him. --Huckabee wants Americans to subsidize illegal aliens college students instead of your kids, supported Drivers Licenses for illegals so they would be able to vote--Condemned ICE when they raided a Poultry plant and arrested 120 illegal aliens for stealing Social Security Cards, Birth certificates, etc. --Huckabee signed a No Amnesty pledge just last week to try and run from his liberal record. With just that pledge his immigration rating went from Abysmal to Very Good. Of course he said the McCain/Kennedy's immigration plan was not AMNESTY.

McCain - supports AMNESTY(co-authored McCain/Kennedy) and refers to Americans that disagree with him, as Racists and Bigots. He rejects tax cuts

ASBESTOS 10 years, 5 months ago

"At a news conference, House Minority Leader Dennis McKinney, D-Greensburg, said focusing on employers would remove the "magnet" that lures illegal immigrants."

And just how is a law giving illelgal aliens a break on tuition that affects only 243 illegal aliens in total, "gettting rid of the magnets"?

You have to get rid of ALL magnets, including the tuition break that out of state CITIZENS do not get.

Equality, remember that one?

bd 10 years, 5 months ago

load them all up and ship them back home asap!

getreal 10 years, 5 months ago

If they really want to do something to bring the wages of Kansans up, then why don't they pass a minimum or living wage bill. Kansas has the LOWEST minimum wage in the country.

These proposal on both sides of the aisle will never have any real dire consequences that prevent employers from using illegal immigrants, it will just erode a little of their profits as they pay their fines.

It will make immigrants live in fear, and wages will not go up.

This is a federal issue and states elected officials are using it for an election purpose. How disgraceful!

kramdorf 10 years, 5 months ago

"Kansas has the lowest minimum wage in the country."

Do you think that might have anything to do with Kansas having one of the lowest costs of living in the country?! Do the math. Minimum wage was also never meant to be a permanent living wage. Every job I have ever started I have worked hard to move my way up the pay-scale ladder; THAT is your "living wage". As for the legislation putting MORE burdens on the employer, it is unfortunate that we think the answer to the problem is to implement more laws on the honest businesses, (which are the majority), because we are unable or unwilling to enforce the existing laws. What part of "illegal" immigrant are we not getting here?

Grundoon Luna 10 years, 5 months ago

Finally!!! A bill that gets down to the "crux of the biscuit," to quote the immortal Frank Zappa.

And if you think that an illegal immigrant student is going to stay 3 years in high school here without benefit of their family, and these folks are hugely familyoriented, you've got a geranimum in your cranium. They go where the work is and when it's gone, they're gone.

But I'm not for giving them the in-state break just on principal even if this bill will ultimately make that a mute point. If the republicans' bill is the same and drops the in-state tuition bene, then go for it I F it will pass. If not, pass the dems' bill and work on the issue later.

hipper_than_hip 10 years, 5 months ago

Is there someplace where a person can hire day laborers (Iegal I hope) in Lawrence? My brother says they hang out in the parking lot of the Home Depot where he lives, but I haven't seen any at the Home Depot in Lawrence.

bd 10 years, 5 months ago

Americorps, its not a plan but the "law" !

get a clue!

Sigmund 10 years, 5 months ago

aketh (Anonymous) says: "Penalizing employers is beating the goose that lays the golden egg. Employers and small businesses provide bulk of employment in this country. They also fill the coffers of the government through taxes."

So what other laws should the gooses be allowed to break? Wage and hour laws, safety laws, tax laws, consumer protection laws, all laws? And are all those eggs really golden? What about the cost shifted to health care, schools, law enforcement? All those additional taxes you "claim" illegals and employers pay may not cover the additional burden.

If the price of lettuce goes up, Americans will eat less or eat the same amount and skimp somewhere else. Same for every other product whose price rises. And I am not "pounding" illegal immigrants, I'm "pounding" illegal employers.

You want to change the laws to allow more legal immigration, I'm all for it. You want to hire legal immigrants and pay them the same as you would Americans, including all the taxes, unemployment insurance, health insurance. I have no problem.

But don't go waving the American flag as you exploit illegal labor and then claim your passing the savings on to American working families. It is unseemly.

jaketh 10 years, 5 months ago

I think our state legislators agenda is being hijacked by a election year politically motivated Republican Party Chairman Kobach. The focus should be economics & the looming recession, not some back burner issue like immigration. The war on Iraq, after the economics, is the second issue we ought to be concerned about--we spend about $1 billion a day. If that money was spent here at home, I am sure it would spur the growth, provide employment and fill the coffers of the treasury.

Building fences, penalizing employers or making state-tuition unavailable is mere cosmetic work.

Fences, walls all serve only short term goals. Walls do come down or fall down due to human perseverance. Where there is a will, there is a way. Hadrian Wall in England built by the Romans to keep out the Barbarians did not succeed. Nor did the Great Wall of China to keep out the Mongols. Neither did the Berlin Wall built by Soviet Communists. In time, fences do crumble...

Instead, we need to concentrate in the development of Mexico & Central America through investment and international development. If we can invest so much money in China, then, why not in our own back yard? If the economic conditions improve S.O.B., there will be less migration.

Domestically, we need to also raise the minimum wage to $8-12/hr level so that anyone here will take a job that is now being filled by illegal immigrants. But, do our politicians & the state reps have the guts to do the right thing?

Will they be able to raise the minimum wages like in Europe? This will mean more inflation in already a heated economy? Are we ready for that?

I just have to ask the people who clamor about immigration issue is that are you ready to pay $3 for a head of lettuce instead of $0.90 right now? If they want to get rid of illegal immigrants who do jobs no American wants to then, we have to face the reality. The price is going to go up for your lettuce, vegetables, fruit, agricultural products. not to mention the hamburger meal.

Before we harp on this issue, we seriously need to think about the consequences of the policy. This means higher prices.

Will the wages go up? Will our leaders raise the minimum wages? I doubt it.

Penalizing employers is not the solution. The policies need to be improved or corrected by the federal government. We are blind to our reality. There are 11 million illegals in this country. It would cost more to deport them than to let them stay. If they left right now, the economy would have dire consequences....

Unless we agree to to the right thing, ie, raise wages. Will we?

Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 10 years, 5 months ago

This is clearly the way to go. As usual, McKinney is right on target. He should have run for governor, then we'd had both an honest governor, and a Democratic governor.

mick 10 years, 5 months ago

The Kansas Chamber of Commerce has held sway over the legislature for too long. They are the pressure group that keeps the minimum wage down and they will be the ones who will kill any attempt to enforce the immigration laws. Petty greed is a disgusting thing.

KS 10 years, 5 months ago

Marion - I thought there was a federal program that allowed certain employers to use non-registered immigtrants (okay with me if you call them illegal) for farm work, which includes lawn service and landscaping businesses, as long as they were back to the Mexican Consulant by a certain date, etc. I think it is something like November 15th. They can legally come in on or about April of each year. I heard this from a landscape company that I anticipate hiring to do some work. I inquired about illegal immigrants and got that answer. Anyone know anything about it?

StrangerCreek 10 years, 5 months ago

Obviously none of you run a business. None of you have had to go through 25 promising young American candidates to find one that will work. Give a Latino a job and they will thank you for it and work their rears off. Finding one with all the right paperwork is the challenge. They will out work most of America's youth. America's youth will ask you when their vacation starts and can they get off early tomorrow. Most Latinos want to stay here. All want a better life for their children. I don't see them taking jobs away from American's. American's don't want to do the work they do. They want someone else to do it. A blanket proposal to kick everybody out all at once would devastate our economy. A proposal to offer a permanent opportunity to them is key.

Sigmund 10 years, 5 months ago

While on the subject of greed, what about the greed of the consumers who pay less for the products produced by illegal labor? Do they not feel shame for their part in a labor market lures illegal workers to this country and then pays them below market rates for their labor? CEO's don't have a monopoly on exploitation. Raising the penalties to businesses who are involved in any illegal behavior, including employment, will reduce the incentive to come to, or remain here illegally. It will also raise the costs to consumers. It is a cost a moral and just society must pay.

Having trouble hiring Americans? Try raising what you pay them, it works every time. In a town where employers are addicted to paying part time college students rock bottom rates, I understand that can be a very difficult concept. Ask yourself this question, if you were educated with some college and ambitious enough to get a degree, would you accept the same pay rate as an illegal who can barely speak English? Add the fact that the illegal and the employer often don't pay taxes and I wouldn't work for you either. In fact, you'd be lucky if I didn't turn your criminal, greedy, and illegal a$$ in to the INS.

jaketh 10 years, 5 months ago

Kingman right on...

Prosperity has brought us Americans lethargy. We are basically lazy period. No one wants to do the work the immigrants are filling. Washing dishes was a rite of passage for most HS students, but, now that is too low for them. Farming is a evermore difficult cause lot of kids do not want to take over the family farm. Everyone wants to do the easy cushy job. No one wants to get their hands dirty. Our work ethic has dwindled, therefore, we cannot compete against the world.

This whole issue is less about them (migrants) or more about us (the state of the socio-econmic system). We are hooked on to cheap products from China via Wal-Mart or other multi-national corporations. We are hooked on to cheap labor via migrants from S.O.B. We have had very low inflation until recently where the gas & food prices have gone up a little bit.

Whether we like it or not, our economy is dependent upon cheap labor force & cheap imports. If we want to kick them out, then, we need to be ready to work... I doubt anyone is ready to fill the void.

Telling people to get off welfare & get to work is not going to solve the problem. That is not going to happen. We all know that. Who are we kidding?

jaketh 10 years, 5 months ago

Penalizing employers is beating the goose that lays the golden egg. Employers and small businesses provide bulk of employment in this country. They also fill the coffers of the government through taxes. Service, agricultural & construction industry are heavily dependent upon migrant workers. Hefty $1 million dollar fines, confiscation of business licenses, auctioning of business property is the beginning of a "New Prohibition" that are currently being discussed will cause many businesses to fail. There is no way in hell many small businesses can pay those fines.

If the businesses have to abide by the "new laws," then they will have to pay American born workers (ie who are willing to work & if they can be recruited) higher wages to make their businesses viable. If an employer has to pay a higher wage to workers, then, the price of the product will go up naturally. Your average price of head of lettuce will go up to $3+/head & so will your hamburger meal.

Either way, we are headed towards to higher prices & inflation in an economy that is already heated due to the mortgage crisis, gas prices & food prices when we are in a recession.

All we are doing is shooting ourselves in the foot. We live in a globalized world that is inter-dependent due to the free market economy. The very people who champion the causes of anti-immigration are the root causes due to global capitalism. They advocate for free market principles, this is what the market delivers. Like it or not, this is the reality.

Either we should be ready to have trade barriers, tarrifs & restrictive import policies to protect the jobs at home or abide by the conservative doctrine of free market capitalism of let the market decide.

It is easy to pound of defenseless migrants when the economy is tough cause they are easy targets. This is election year politics nothing else. No one was talking about illegal immigration in the late 90's when we had an economic boom...

We are all bunch of hypocrites. If you are so against the migrants then stop eating the lettuce, vegetables, fruits grown in California, Southwest & Florida. Go to the local farmers market & support your local farmer. I doubt that will happen because it costs more period.

jaketh 10 years, 5 months ago


Our politicians & leaders both at the state & the federal level are incapable of providing leadership to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill. You know why because most Americans public are against it. They are afraid to do the right thing.

Any employer or business wants to abide by the laws. Right now there is an immigration law that is suppossed to check the statutus of all employees, but, the key is implementation & enforcement. It has failed because if the federal government were to enforce the law strictly, the economy would collapse. Get real.

In addition, even if an employer tries to hire employees legally from other countries, it takes about anywhere from 9 months to 4 years to clear the red tape & paper work through the immigration, eg, the service industry which requires millions of employees, there are only 10,000 quotas per year.

So we need to tell our leaders to get our act together & pass a sensible reform plan.

Bettybb 10 years, 5 months ago

The latest poll confirms what many polls have found over the last six months, 68 percent of Americans want deportation. The news media will never print that poll, so pass it along. Here is the cite:

Why not send it to your Senators and Congressman and State reps too? We don't want them to stay in the dark do we?

Funny that just before Christmas Congress using the Omnibus Act gutted the Fence bill. They did away with double fencing, the kind that has been proven to really work, and put conditions on building the fence which will guarantee it will not get done. Another question to ask your people in Congress, why are they doing this since the America people are against it?

We got to keep fighting folks...... continued next post

jaketh 10 years, 5 months ago

Dirty Linen:

Two words for you:

Go work.

jaketh 10 years, 5 months ago

Dirty Linen,

My bad. You meant for Americans to go work... Wishful thinking. Good luck. The work ethic is not there.

If you want kick out the illegals, you should be prepared to break your back in the 95 degrees+ sun for 12 hours picking lettuce & vegetables. You as an individual are not ready to get your hands dirty, then, how do expect others to follow suit. Practice what you preach.

Take a step back & think. You want your cheap lettuce, fruit & vegetables, yet, you also want to kick out the very people who make it possible for you to enjoy them.

You can't have your cake & eat it too.

Sigmund 10 years, 5 months ago

Importing cheap illegal labor drives wages down for entry level jobs. Employers who insult Americans by claiming these are "jobs that Americans won't do" are only telling part of the story. These are "jobs that Americans won't do at slave wages." Every study I have seen on work and productivity chastises Americans for working too hard and too long compared to their counterparts in the EU and around the world, not the other way around.

Democratic politicians want illegal workers in hopes they will become illegal voters. Republican politicians want illegal workers to curry favor with big Agriculture and Construction. The American people on the other hand, are overwhelming against illegal immigration because they want a honest wage for a honest days work. This is one of the reasons Congress's approval ratings are less than that of the President.

You say that immigration reform can never happen, I disagree. Had the McCain-Fiengold merely raised the limits on legal immigration and raised the penalties for hiring illegals it would have overwhelming support. I don't want cheap lettuce fruits and vegetables if it means exploitation of illegals and lower wages for Americans. I dare to say the majority of moral law abiding people feel the same way. I am willing to pay a fair price for my cake even if it means I eat it less often. It will be better for my body and my soul.

Bettybb 10 years, 5 months ago

Our laws provide that all Americans can bring in their family and race hence each country has about equal quotas.

Any form of amnesty gives a huge preference to Hispanics over all Americans of other races, both in number and timing of those allowed to live here. It is completely racist and violates the USA Constitution anti discrimination and equal protection clauses.

But politicians, the media and dishonest business want taxpayer supported cheap labor, and to keep those illegals coming, so they are doing their best to hide the stench of racism they are promoting by their amnesty proposals.

It is the civil rights battle of the 21st century, for all non Hispanic Americans. Do we let greedy corporations abolish our civil rights and the rule of law? Or do we fight back and refuse to vote for any politician who is pro amnesty of any sort?

This is a fight for what America will be. A nation of laws for everyone, or for the dissolution of the country so the greedy elite can reap huge profits form a North American Union.

Don't believe me? .... continued next post....

Bettybb 10 years, 5 months ago

Read David Brooks of the NYT article in December where he haranges Lou Dobbs for screwing it up; per Brooks, the "elite" ( his words) had reached a bipartisan agreement on free trade that was reaping huge profits. He fails to mention that it was profits for the "elite" and ordinary Americans get hung out to dry.

Check Judicial Watch. You can read an actual Bush gov. document which says that as Americans will resist North American integration, it has to be done in secret and implement by "evolution stealth".

Guess what leaving the borders open and amnesty is?? Evolution steatlh for integration of Mexicans and Americans.

Ever wonder why the politicans, media and business never ask for legal immigrants?

Because they come from all countries and they don't want that. They only want Mexicans to further their plans to for the North American integration.

Check out Jeff Hoards videos (google Jeff Hoards) and see him catch our politicians lying about the North American HIghway they are buiding RIGHT NOW.

Check out Judicial Watch again and read the Bush gov documents- agendas for meetings with Mexico and Canada for integration of our infrastructures and for open borders.

How about Bush letting in the Mexican turckers to the USA even though Congress passed a bill banning it?

How about our Congress just before Christmas in the Omnibus ill doing away with double fencing (it works) and adding conditions for the building of the fence which means it will never get b built?

People, wake up. Tell you friends and family.

We are in the fight for our lives. If we lose, we lose our language, our culture and our nation.

All there will remain to be done is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag for the last time.

Vote out every politican that does not support deportation.

Call, email, fax your reps constantly demanding answers to why our borders are still unprotected. Wny the fence act has been gutted. Why they are proposing racist amnesty. Why legal immigrants are being discrimianted against? Why oridinaty Americans unless they are hispanic, are being discrimina nted against in terms of number and family they can have in the USA.

We don't have much time left.

This isn't a Republican issue or a Democratic issue. It is an American issue. We all have to work together to put a stop it.

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