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Archive for Thursday, January 24, 2008

Immigration bill targets employers

Democrats would retain in-state tuition for some children of undocumented parents

January 24, 2008

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— House Democratic legislators Wednesday unveiled a proposal that they said would reduce illegal immigration by making employers more accountable.

But unlike a Republican measure unveiled in the Senate, the Democrats' proposal keeps in place the current opportunity for the children of some undocumented immigrants to pay the less expensive in-state tuition for higher education.

There have been many attempts to repeal the so-called in-state tuition law, but they have all failed.

Sen. Peggy Palmer, R-Augusta, has introduced another bill that would attempt to repeal it. She said the 2004 law should be eliminated because it provides a public benefit to people who are living in Kansas illegally.

But House Democrats said the proposal was too divisive and could scuttle measures that have more support.

"I think that's a tired debate," said Rep. Ann Mah, D-Topeka. "We've been over that time and time again."

Under that law, the student must have lived in Kansas at least three years, graduated from a Kansas high school and seek or promise to seek legal status. In Kansas, 243 students currently benefit from the law, according to the Kansas Board of Regents.

Both the House Democrats' and Palmer's proposal would prohibit businesses from knowingly hiring illegal immigrants. It would also require businesses to verify employees' status through a federal government database.

At a news conference, House Minority Leader Dennis McKinney, D-Greensburg, said focusing on employers would remove the "magnet" that lures illegal immigrants.

Rep. Tom Holland, D-Baldwin City, said because undocumented workers will often work for less pay, that drives down the pay of many in the work force.

"Illegal immigration erodes the wages of working Kansas families," Holland said. Several of Holland's proposals are included in the House Democrats' plan.

Reps. Barbara Ballard and Paul Davis, both Democrats from Lawrence, also attended the news conference.

Comments

Bettybb 6 years, 2 months ago

Read David Brooks of the NYT article in December where he haranges Lou Dobbs for screwing it up; per Brooks, the "elite" ( his words) had reached a bipartisan agreement on free trade that was reaping huge profits. He fails to mention that it was profits for the "elite" and ordinary Americans get hung out to dry.

Check Judicial Watch. You can read an actual Bush gov. document which says that as Americans will resist North American integration, it has to be done in secret and implement by "evolution stealth".

Guess what leaving the borders open and amnesty is?? Evolution steatlh for integration of Mexicans and Americans.

Ever wonder why the politicans, media and business never ask for legal immigrants?

Because they come from all countries and they don't want that. They only want Mexicans to further their plans to for the North American integration.

Check out Jeff Hoards videos (google Jeff Hoards) and see him catch our politicians lying about the North American HIghway they are buiding RIGHT NOW.

Check out Judicial Watch again and read the Bush gov documents- agendas for meetings with Mexico and Canada for integration of our infrastructures and for open borders.

How about Bush letting in the Mexican turckers to the USA even though Congress passed a bill banning it?

How about our Congress just before Christmas in the Omnibus ill doing away with double fencing (it works) and adding conditions for the building of the fence which means it will never get b built?

People, wake up. Tell you friends and family.

We are in the fight for our lives. If we lose, we lose our language, our culture and our nation.

All there will remain to be done is to ask the last person in the country we once called America to lower the flag for the last time.

Vote out every politican that does not support deportation.

Call, email, fax your reps constantly demanding answers to why our borders are still unprotected. Wny the fence act has been gutted. Why they are proposing racist amnesty. Why legal immigrants are being discrimianted against? Why oridinaty Americans unless they are hispanic, are being discrimina nted against in terms of number and family they can have in the USA.

We don't have much time left.

This isn't a Republican issue or a Democratic issue. It is an American issue. We all have to work together to put a stop it.

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Bettybb 6 years, 2 months ago

Our laws provide that all Americans can bring in their family and race hence each country has about equal quotas.

Any form of amnesty gives a huge preference to Hispanics over all Americans of other races, both in number and timing of those allowed to live here. It is completely racist and violates the USA Constitution anti discrimination and equal protection clauses.

But politicians, the media and dishonest business want taxpayer supported cheap labor, and to keep those illegals coming, so they are doing their best to hide the stench of racism they are promoting by their amnesty proposals.

It is the civil rights battle of the 21st century, for all non Hispanic Americans. Do we let greedy corporations abolish our civil rights and the rule of law? Or do we fight back and refuse to vote for any politician who is pro amnesty of any sort?

This is a fight for what America will be. A nation of laws for everyone, or for the dissolution of the country so the greedy elite can reap huge profits form a North American Union.

Don't believe me? .... continued next post....

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Bettybb 6 years, 2 months ago

The latest poll confirms what many polls have found over the last six months, 68 percent of Americans want deportation. The news media will never print that poll, so pass it along. Here is the cite: http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/20638/

Why not send it to your Senators and Congressman and State reps too? We don't want them to stay in the dark do we?

Funny that just before Christmas Congress using the Omnibus Act gutted the Fence bill. They did away with double fencing, the kind that has been proven to really work, and put conditions on building the fence which will guarantee it will not get done. Another question to ask your people in Congress, why are they doing this since the America people are against it?

We got to keep fighting folks...... continued next post

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 2 months ago

jaketh (Anonymous) says:

"Take a step back & think. You want your cheap lettuce, fruit & vegetables, yet, you also want to kick out the very people who make it possible for you to enjoy them."

Um ... aren't you the one who said "raise the minimum wage to $8-12/hr level?" Ain't gonna' be a lot of people eating lettuce when that happens.

"You as an individual are not ready to get your hands dirty, then, how do expect others to follow suit. Practice what you preach."

And what, pray tell, gives you the right to A$$ume I haven't or am not doing so?

"You meant for Americans to go work: Wishful thinking. Good luck. The work ethic is not there."

And why do you think that is?

At my last job before moving to Kansas, I was doing fairly well ... not living in luxury, but with just the one income, we were still above the median household income where we lived, and the job had great benefits as well. However, I could have done just as well ... possibly even better ... without working at all. Between Section 8, food stamps, AFDC or TAF, LIEAP, WIC, Medicaid/SCHIP (damned LJW capitalization zappers), and a family member's SSI that was lost because I was working, we would have been living just as well, and without my ever having to leave the house. Throw in a small part-time job, something with very little income, not enough to cost us our benefits but enough to qualify for sizeable refundable tax credits, and we would have been even better off.

Some of us do have a work ethic, and I chose to keep working. But others don't, and I can't really say I blame them. It's not just a matter of work ethic, the problem is that somewhere along the line people got the idea that the government is supposed to take care of everyone, that even those people who choose not to work are entitled to support through the same programs which were supposed to be for those who can't work.

It's the sense of entitlement that's the problem, reinforced by the Democrats who think taxing the rich to keep giving handouts to everyone else is the solution. And that sense of entitlement is unlikely to diminish with the "living wage" advocates pushing their agenda, or calls to raise the minimum wage to $12/hr.

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Sigmund 6 years, 2 months ago

Importing cheap illegal labor drives wages down for entry level jobs. Employers who insult Americans by claiming these are "jobs that Americans won't do" are only telling part of the story. These are "jobs that Americans won't do at slave wages." Every study I have seen on work and productivity chastises Americans for working too hard and too long compared to their counterparts in the EU and around the world, not the other way around.

Democratic politicians want illegal workers in hopes they will become illegal voters. Republican politicians want illegal workers to curry favor with big Agriculture and Construction. The American people on the other hand, are overwhelming against illegal immigration because they want a honest wage for a honest days work. This is one of the reasons Congress's approval ratings are less than that of the President.

You say that immigration reform can never happen, I disagree. Had the McCain-Fiengold merely raised the limits on legal immigration and raised the penalties for hiring illegals it would have overwhelming support. I don't want cheap lettuce fruits and vegetables if it means exploitation of illegals and lower wages for Americans. I dare to say the majority of moral law abiding people feel the same way. I am willing to pay a fair price for my cake even if it means I eat it less often. It will be better for my body and my soul.

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jaketh 6 years, 2 months ago

Dirty Linen,

My bad. You meant for Americans to go work... Wishful thinking. Good luck. The work ethic is not there.

If you want kick out the illegals, you should be prepared to break your back in the 95 degrees+ sun for 12 hours picking lettuce & vegetables. You as an individual are not ready to get your hands dirty, then, how do expect others to follow suit. Practice what you preach.

Take a step back & think. You want your cheap lettuce, fruit & vegetables, yet, you also want to kick out the very people who make it possible for you to enjoy them.

You can't have your cake & eat it too.

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 2 months ago

jaketh (Anonymous) says:

"Our politicians & leaders both at the state & the federal level are incapable of providing leadership to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill. You know why because most Americans public are against it. They are afraid to do the right thing."

Or I suppose it's just possible that "the right thing" is not quite the same as what jaketh thinks is "the right thing."

"Any employer or business wants to abide by the laws."

Yeah ... in jaketh's lala land.

But if that were the case ... what would be the problem with this new law?

" It has failed because if the federal government were to enforce the law strictly, the economy would collapse. Get real."

Let's see ... 12 million illegals (including many non-workers) ... over 16 million unemployed Americans. And while we pay unemployment benefits to many of the unemployed Americans (and food stamps and cash assistance and Medicaid and ...), we also pay for medical treatment, education, and a host of other expenses for the illegals. Sounds like the economy would be better off without them.

Oh, unless you're an employer that wants to "abide by the law" but hires them anyway.

"In addition, even if an employer tries to hire employees legally from other countries, it takes about anywhere from 9 months to 4 years to clear the red tape & paper work through the immigration..."

An old story says that Napoleon wanted trees planted along the avenues of Paris so his troops could march in the shade. When one of his generals pointed out that it would take 20 years, Napoleon reportedly said: "Right. So let's get started."

The fact that something takes time to accomplish is a pretty poor reason for delaying its start.

"Two words for you: Go work."

Except I was the one advocating for Americans to do exactly that, while you say it would be too inconvenient to get rid of the illegals.

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jaketh 6 years, 2 months ago

Dirty Linen:

Two words for you:

Go work.

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jaketh 6 years, 2 months ago

Sigmund:

Our politicians & leaders both at the state & the federal level are incapable of providing leadership to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill. You know why because most Americans public are against it. They are afraid to do the right thing.

Any employer or business wants to abide by the laws. Right now there is an immigration law that is suppossed to check the statutus of all employees, but, the key is implementation & enforcement. It has failed because if the federal government were to enforce the law strictly, the economy would collapse. Get real.

In addition, even if an employer tries to hire employees legally from other countries, it takes about anywhere from 9 months to 4 years to clear the red tape & paper work through the immigration, eg, the service industry which requires millions of employees, there are only 10,000 quotas per year.

So we need to tell our leaders to get our act together & pass a sensible reform plan.

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 2 months ago

jaketh (Anonymous) says:

"Whether we like it or not, our economy is dependent upon cheap labor force & cheap imports. If we want to kick them out, then, we need to be ready to work: I doubt anyone is ready to fill the void."

"Telling people to get off welfare & get to work is not going to solve the problem. That is not going to happen. We all know that. Who are we kidding?"

Gee, jaketh, I coulda' saved you a bunch of typing ... your post could have been summed up in one word:

Surrender.

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Uhlrick_Hetfield_III 6 years, 2 months ago

This is clearly the way to go. As usual, McKinney is right on target. He should have run for governor, then we'd had both an honest governor, and a Democratic governor.

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Sigmund 6 years, 2 months ago

aketh (Anonymous) says: "Penalizing employers is beating the goose that lays the golden egg. Employers and small businesses provide bulk of employment in this country. They also fill the coffers of the government through taxes."

So what other laws should the gooses be allowed to break? Wage and hour laws, safety laws, tax laws, consumer protection laws, all laws? And are all those eggs really golden? What about the cost shifted to health care, schools, law enforcement? All those additional taxes you "claim" illegals and employers pay may not cover the additional burden.

If the price of lettuce goes up, Americans will eat less or eat the same amount and skimp somewhere else. Same for every other product whose price rises. And I am not "pounding" illegal immigrants, I'm "pounding" illegal employers.

You want to change the laws to allow more legal immigration, I'm all for it. You want to hire legal immigrants and pay them the same as you would Americans, including all the taxes, unemployment insurance, health insurance. I have no problem.

But don't go waving the American flag as you exploit illegal labor and then claim your passing the savings on to American working families. It is unseemly.

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jaketh 6 years, 2 months ago

Penalizing employers is beating the goose that lays the golden egg. Employers and small businesses provide bulk of employment in this country. They also fill the coffers of the government through taxes. Service, agricultural & construction industry are heavily dependent upon migrant workers. Hefty $1 million dollar fines, confiscation of business licenses, auctioning of business property is the beginning of a "New Prohibition" that are currently being discussed will cause many businesses to fail. There is no way in hell many small businesses can pay those fines.

If the businesses have to abide by the "new laws," then they will have to pay American born workers (ie who are willing to work & if they can be recruited) higher wages to make their businesses viable. If an employer has to pay a higher wage to workers, then, the price of the product will go up naturally. Your average price of head of lettuce will go up to $3+/head & so will your hamburger meal.

Either way, we are headed towards to higher prices & inflation in an economy that is already heated due to the mortgage crisis, gas prices & food prices when we are in a recession.

All we are doing is shooting ourselves in the foot. We live in a globalized world that is inter-dependent due to the free market economy. The very people who champion the causes of anti-immigration are the root causes due to global capitalism. They advocate for free market principles, this is what the market delivers. Like it or not, this is the reality.

Either we should be ready to have trade barriers, tarrifs & restrictive import policies to protect the jobs at home or abide by the conservative doctrine of free market capitalism of let the market decide.

It is easy to pound of defenseless migrants when the economy is tough cause they are easy targets. This is election year politics nothing else. No one was talking about illegal immigration in the late 90's when we had an economic boom...

We are all bunch of hypocrites. If you are so against the migrants then stop eating the lettuce, vegetables, fruits grown in California, Southwest & Florida. Go to the local farmers market & support your local farmer. I doubt that will happen because it costs more period.

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jaketh 6 years, 2 months ago

Kingman right on...

Prosperity has brought us Americans lethargy. We are basically lazy period. No one wants to do the work the immigrants are filling. Washing dishes was a rite of passage for most HS students, but, now that is too low for them. Farming is a evermore difficult cause lot of kids do not want to take over the family farm. Everyone wants to do the easy cushy job. No one wants to get their hands dirty. Our work ethic has dwindled, therefore, we cannot compete against the world.

This whole issue is less about them (migrants) or more about us (the state of the socio-econmic system). We are hooked on to cheap products from China via Wal-Mart or other multi-national corporations. We are hooked on to cheap labor via migrants from S.O.B. We have had very low inflation until recently where the gas & food prices have gone up a little bit.

Whether we like it or not, our economy is dependent upon cheap labor force & cheap imports. If we want to kick them out, then, we need to be ready to work... I doubt anyone is ready to fill the void.

Telling people to get off welfare & get to work is not going to solve the problem. That is not going to happen. We all know that. Who are we kidding?

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Sigmund 6 years, 2 months ago

While on the subject of greed, what about the greed of the consumers who pay less for the products produced by illegal labor? Do they not feel shame for their part in a labor market lures illegal workers to this country and then pays them below market rates for their labor? CEO's don't have a monopoly on exploitation. Raising the penalties to businesses who are involved in any illegal behavior, including employment, will reduce the incentive to come to, or remain here illegally. It will also raise the costs to consumers. It is a cost a moral and just society must pay.

Having trouble hiring Americans? Try raising what you pay them, it works every time. In a town where employers are addicted to paying part time college students rock bottom rates, I understand that can be a very difficult concept. Ask yourself this question, if you were educated with some college and ambitious enough to get a degree, would you accept the same pay rate as an illegal who can barely speak English? Add the fact that the illegal and the employer often don't pay taxes and I wouldn't work for you either. In fact, you'd be lucky if I didn't turn your criminal, greedy, and illegal a$$ in to the INS.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 2 months ago

KIngman:

You have written more truth than most of the readers here wilil ever know.

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StrangerCreek 6 years, 2 months ago

Obviously none of you run a business. None of you have had to go through 25 promising young American candidates to find one that will work. Give a Latino a job and they will thank you for it and work their rears off. Finding one with all the right paperwork is the challenge. They will out work most of America's youth. America's youth will ask you when their vacation starts and can they get off early tomorrow. Most Latinos want to stay here. All want a better life for their children. I don't see them taking jobs away from American's. American's don't want to do the work they do. They want someone else to do it. A blanket proposal to kick everybody out all at once would devastate our economy. A proposal to offer a permanent opportunity to them is key.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 2 months ago

I dunno but if there is such a program, the WyCo guy is not using it.

This I know!

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KS 6 years, 2 months ago

Marion - I thought there was a federal program that allowed certain employers to use non-registered immigtrants (okay with me if you call them illegal) for farm work, which includes lawn service and landscaping businesses, as long as they were back to the Mexican Consulant by a certain date, etc. I think it is something like November 15th. They can legally come in on or about April of each year. I heard this from a landscape company that I anticipate hiring to do some work. I inquired about illegal immigrants and got that answer. Anyone know anything about it?

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americorps 6 years, 2 months ago

BD,

You want to destroy America. You are a traitor to this country, unpatriotic and ignorant to the effects of the things you speak.

But, I will give you this...

At least you are consistent.

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 2 months ago

Agnostick (Anonymous) says:

"DirtyLinen, thanks for illustrating one of the biggest symptoms of our failing economy: Greed."

[Sigh]

Gee, how did I know that was going to deteriorate into a class jealousy rant?

Yep, it's all about greed. A person who goes though years of school, then works his way up over the course of 20 or 30 years through positions requiring more and more ability and carrying more and more responsibility, to finally be in a position which you acknowledge directly affects the livelihood and pocketbooks of possibly millions of other people, for that person it's greedy to expect to be compensated as well as someone who throws an 11" round ball into a net ... half the year.

The audacity of it all.

Lest you think my arguments are grounded in personal greed, ag, I'm a lot closer to the vegetable picker than the CEO. But unlike you I don't begrudge those who have more. I can be satisfied with what I have, it really doesn't bother me ... it really doesn't affect me at all ... that someone else has more ... good for them, more power to 'em.

Greed, ag, is a label better suited to those who want more without having to do anything for it. Greed is more akin to those who think the American dream has been twisted into something that says "dream, try, and work hard so others can get what they want." Greed is something that applies to those who decry the success of others and advocate for the redistribution of the fruits of that success to those who did not earn them.

"Very telling that your main concern is for people on welfare, that they be taken off welfare and given a job. How much would you be willing to pay these individuals, assuming they put in a solid day's work?"

Hardly my "main concern," I mentioned it as a preferable alternative to the ridiculous suggestion of a $12/hour minimum wage. More "living wage" BS. When did the nutjobs get the idea that the minimum wage was intended to allow high school dropouts to take a job washing dishes, bagging groceries, or picking lettuce, and support a family of four with a house and a car and a color TV from a job whose level of skill equals that of saying "You want fries with that?"

In answer to your question, I believe they should be paid what the job deserves ... no more and no less. The degree of education and training involved, the skills and abilities required, what the prevailing wage is for similar employers paying similar employees, those things determine what a person should be paid, not what some people think the worker is "entitled" to, not whether it's more or less than what they can get on welfare, not where the person came from.

Maybe you were absent in school the day they talked about all those countries where the whole "everyone contributes according to his abilities and receives according to his needs" thing worked out so well.

You didn't miss much ... there aren't any.

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mick 6 years, 2 months ago

The Kansas Chamber of Commerce has held sway over the legislature for too long. They are the pressure group that keeps the minimum wage down and they will be the ones who will kill any attempt to enforce the immigration laws. Petty greed is a disgusting thing.

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Marion Lynn 6 years, 2 months ago

I have no problem with fining the biosolids out of employers who use and abuse illegal labour.

Paying employees cash is one thing; I've done it off and on but the manner in which so many employers take advantage of the illegal alien pool is shameful.

I know of a lawn service company owned by a suppsedly "prominent" person in WyCo, which employs NOTHING but illegal aliens!

These illegals are paid biosolids, are often threatened with deoportation if they complain and are forced as the result to work many hours inexcess of 40 without overtime pay.

I first became aware of this problem as a teenager when I saw the "migrant workers" living in old unheated buses on the Barcus Farm in Kansas City, Kansas.

Most had brought their families with them so children were living in the old rat traps as well AND working the fields.

One year I asked my parents to send them milk instead of giving me a birthday present.

I think that I was about eleven or so but my request was refused and I always felt bad about that.

I can't blame my parents; they were raised to believe that the "migrant workers" were some sort of class of people with which good upstanding white people did not associate.

Depression people who had just survived the greatest conflict in the history of the world so I can understand it now but that does not make it right.

Barcus Farms had big box and cattle trucks in which they hauled entire families from Mexico to slave away for them.

Yes, I wrote "cattle trucks".

I saw it, so don't try to get me to withdraw the claim!

Now....................................

What I am going to write is going to really p*ss off a buch of gringos but, Oh, well!

Were I to get into the construction or developement biz (Which I am considering!). I would first hire myself a few bi-lingual (Spanish/English) guys to be the foremen or pushers and tell them to get me a crew with documentation.

I would then pay that crew scale, provide lunch and beer and whatever at the end of shift, make certain that their families were taken care of and my projects would come in under budget and ahead of schedule every time!

And............................................................................................

I wouldn't have to put up with listening to a bunch of whiny unionised Gabachos, worried about coffee breaks!

I know...............................................................

I've done it and it works.

The "wetback" labour pool has a work ethic far superior to that of the average white middle class American.

The foregoing does NOT mean that I do not believe that the flow of illegal aliens should not be halted; it must be but there are also very sound reasons that so many American businesses utilise that labour pool!

The manner in which illegal aliens are taken advantage of is not only illegal but a blight on our supposedly "enlightened" society and should be brought to a halt forthwith!

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

Successful businesses can be run--on American soil--without greed...

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/12/15/offbeat.shoe.factory.ap/

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

DirtyLinen, thanks for illustrating one of the biggest symptoms of our failing economy: Greed.

Please point out where I suggested that an executive shouldn't make more than a vegetable picker. I won't wait for you to find such a statement, as neither I nor anyone else made such a statement. You can waste your own time, but not mine. ;)

True, the decisions this person makes, as you point out, "affect the company, the consumers, and the entire country's economy."

So does the salary they draw, as do the wages they choose to pay their workers.

Very telling that your main concern is for people on welfare, that they be taken off welfare and given a job. How much would you be willing to pay these individuals, assuming they put in a solid day's work? Would you pay them more, or less than the current amount of their welfare checks? Would you pay these American citizens more, or less than the wages paid to illegal immigrants? Who deserves the better paycheck, in your eyes--assuming both put in a solid day's work?

Suppose you're the CEO making $20 million a year. Would you be willing to "walk the walk," and take a pay cut down to, say, $15 million? Don't rush to answer this! Take your time, and carefully run the numbers. It would definitely be a challenge living on only $15 million/year. Not much more than the bums downtown who panhandle for change--I hear they average $3-4 million annually.

Amazing, really, how many numbers there are, really, between 12 and 400,000,000.

Oh... you didn't know that? You were out sick when they covered that in school?

:rolleyes:

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 2 months ago

Agnostick (Anonymous) says:

"DirtyLinen: Also, how about we stop the greed? How about we not give the CEO of the produce company a $400 million "golden parachute?""

Oh, right, the chief executive of a multibillion dollar conglomerate shouldn't make any more than vegetable pickers ... 'cause the decisions he makes don't affect the company, the consumers, and the entire country's economy any more than the guy who picks a head of lettuce, after all.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

DirtyLinen: Also, how about we stop the greed? How about we not give the CEO of the produce company a $400 million "golden parachute?"

There's way too much of that action going on, and you know it.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

kubacker: All due respect, but yanking a business license is probably crap. License yanked from the husband, then refiled by the wife. Yanked from the wife, then the brother-in-law gets the license. Ad nauseum.

Seize the assets, and physically sell them off. It's the only way.

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DirtyLinen 6 years, 2 months ago

americorps (Anonymous) says:

"Have you read the GAO report showing how devestating that would be to our country?"

Typical for what passes as "thinking" by americr*p ... if it costs too much to enforce the law, forget it.

How much does it cost to prosecute a murderer?

"Reactionairy ignorant ideas hurt America."

And yes, you are a major pain.

"I love my country..."

Yeah, just enough to live elsewhere and continually badmouth it. True patriot you are.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jaketh (Anonymous) says:

"I just have to ask the people who clamor about immigration issue is that are you ready to pay $3 for a head of lettuce instead of $0.90 right now?"

And your solution to that is: "we need to also raise the minimum wage to $8-12/hr level so that anyone here will take a job that is now being filled by illegal immigrants."

Brilliant.

Here's a thought ... how about making people work instead of sitting home collecting welfare ... then maybe they'd take those jobs the illegals are performing without having to raise the minimum wage and runining the economy, and lettuce wouldn't cost $3.

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Agnostick 6 years, 2 months ago

Our Kansas "legis-wankers" will get around to doing something effective about this, as soon as they wipe out the GLBT community in Kansas, line George Tiller and all his employees up in front of a firing squad, and institute the Book of Genesis as the official textbook of all science classrooms in K-12 classrooms.

After all, "first things, first"... right?

No state can institute an effective state law, any more than a single state can be given sole responsibility for protecting our national borders.

Illegal immigration is a national or federal problem--it should be dealt with at the national or federal level.

We need to employ the federal RICO statutes to stomp out illegal immigration.

If you've read this part of my post 844 times before (and if you're a long-time LJW reader, you probably have!), scroll on down...

1) First offense--The first time a business is caught with illegal immigrants on the books, that business shall be fined no less than $1 million dollars for each full or partial month that each worker was employed. Two illegals that had been there a combined total of 9 months and 2 weeks? That's a $10 million fine. Don't care how you get the money. Sell the business if you have to.

2) Second offense--All holdings, including capital, inventory, buildings, equipment, supplies... to be seized by the Internal Revenue Service, to pay back taxes. The business will then be sold at auction, whole or in pieces, to law-abiding citizens and/or business owners.

3) Third offense--Same penalties as #2, but business owner(s) will be stripped of U.S. citizenship, and allowed to seek political asylum in any country that will take them. Mexico or China, for example.

I seriously doubt anyone will make it to a 3rd offense. Make that 1st offense "stick" two or three times, and this law will quickly become obsolete.

Kinda like Robert Downey Jr. says in that trailer for "Ironman" that's floating around right now:

"Some people prefer the weapon that you never have to use. I prefer the weapon that you only have to use once."

Agnostick agnostick@excite.com http://www.uscentrist.org http://www.americanplan.org

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kubacker 6 years, 2 months ago

If they put heavy fines (1st offense) and loss of business license (2nd offense) for knowingly hiring an illegal alien that will be the end of illegals in Kansas period, end of story! That is exactly what the Republican bill does.

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kubacker 6 years, 2 months ago

Getreal

Anybody, including their family, who is illegally in this country and daily violating multiple felony laws, as a way of life, should be living in perpetual fear of arrest and deportation - that's a good thing!

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jaketh 6 years, 2 months ago

I think our state legislators agenda is being hijacked by a election year politically motivated Republican Party Chairman Kobach. The focus should be economics & the looming recession, not some back burner issue like immigration. The war on Iraq, after the economics, is the second issue we ought to be concerned about--we spend about $1 billion a day. If that money was spent here at home, I am sure it would spur the growth, provide employment and fill the coffers of the treasury.

Building fences, penalizing employers or making state-tuition unavailable is mere cosmetic work.

Fences, walls all serve only short term goals. Walls do come down or fall down due to human perseverance. Where there is a will, there is a way. Hadrian Wall in England built by the Romans to keep out the Barbarians did not succeed. Nor did the Great Wall of China to keep out the Mongols. Neither did the Berlin Wall built by Soviet Communists. In time, fences do crumble...

Instead, we need to concentrate in the development of Mexico & Central America through investment and international development. If we can invest so much money in China, then, why not in our own back yard? If the economic conditions improve S.O.B., there will be less migration.

Domestically, we need to also raise the minimum wage to $8-12/hr level so that anyone here will take a job that is now being filled by illegal immigrants. But, do our politicians & the state reps have the guts to do the right thing?

Will they be able to raise the minimum wages like in Europe? This will mean more inflation in already a heated economy? Are we ready for that?

I just have to ask the people who clamor about immigration issue is that are you ready to pay $3 for a head of lettuce instead of $0.90 right now? If they want to get rid of illegal immigrants who do jobs no American wants to then, we have to face the reality. The price is going to go up for your lettuce, vegetables, fruit, agricultural products. not to mention the hamburger meal.

Before we harp on this issue, we seriously need to think about the consequences of the policy. This means higher prices.

Will the wages go up? Will our leaders raise the minimum wages? I doubt it.

Penalizing employers is not the solution. The policies need to be improved or corrected by the federal government. We are blind to our reality. There are 11 million illegals in this country. It would cost more to deport them than to let them stay. If they left right now, the economy would have dire consequences....

Unless we agree to to the right thing, ie, raise wages. Will we?

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bd 6 years, 2 months ago

Americorps, its not a plan but the "law" !

get a clue!

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hipper_than_hip 6 years, 2 months ago

Is there someplace where a person can hire day laborers (Iegal I hope) in Lawrence? My brother says they hang out in the parking lot of the Home Depot where he lives, but I haven't seen any at the Home Depot in Lawrence.

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Azure_Attitude 6 years, 2 months ago

Finally!!! A bill that gets down to the "crux of the biscuit," to quote the immortal Frank Zappa.

And if you think that an illegal immigrant student is going to stay 3 years in high school here without benefit of their family, and these folks are hugely familyoriented, you've got a geranimum in your cranium. They go where the work is and when it's gone, they're gone.

But I'm not for giving them the in-state break just on principal even if this bill will ultimately make that a mute point. If the republicans' bill is the same and drops the in-state tuition bene, then go for it I F it will pass. If not, pass the dems' bill and work on the issue later.

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americorps 6 years, 2 months ago

bd (Anonymous) says: load them all up and ship them back home asap!


Have you read the GAO report showing how devestating that would be to our country? Reactionairy ignorant ideas hurt America. I love my country to much cut off our nose to spite our face.

I like the plan in the article, we would not have this problem if there were no incentive to come here and quite frankly, I find a millionaire American trying to squeeze a little bit more out of the system should be held at least AS accountable as a poor illegal immigrant doing what he needs to do to feed his children. Imagine that...holding Americans accountable for breaking the law.

I am against illegal immigration, but I am against stupid plans to fix it, and I am ashamed that our country spends all the time bashing the illegals and hardly says a word about AMERICAN law breakers.

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kramdorf 6 years, 2 months ago

"Kansas has the lowest minimum wage in the country."

Do you think that might have anything to do with Kansas having one of the lowest costs of living in the country?! Do the math. Minimum wage was also never meant to be a permanent living wage. Every job I have ever started I have worked hard to move my way up the pay-scale ladder; THAT is your "living wage". As for the legislation putting MORE burdens on the employer, it is unfortunate that we think the answer to the problem is to implement more laws on the honest businesses, (which are the majority), because we are unable or unwilling to enforce the existing laws. What part of "illegal" immigrant are we not getting here?

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logicsound04 6 years, 2 months ago

"Equality, remember that one?"


Are you really going to use "equality" as your rallying cry for why we should keep people seeking a way to make a living out of our country?

LOL!

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logicsound04 6 years, 2 months ago

Well, well, well, an intelligent idea about immigration.

Rather than building a giant fence, this bill actually addresses the CAUSE of immigration rather than trying to put up a stopgap. Now all we need to do is start trying to solve the problem from the other end, by helping Mexico get on it's feet. A prosperous Mexico would not only reduce the amount of Mexican immigrants, but it would benefit the U.S. and Canada as a whole.

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getreal 6 years, 2 months ago

If they really want to do something to bring the wages of Kansans up, then why don't they pass a minimum or living wage bill. Kansas has the LOWEST minimum wage in the country.

These proposal on both sides of the aisle will never have any real dire consequences that prevent employers from using illegal immigrants, it will just erode a little of their profits as they pay their fines.

It will make immigrants live in fear, and wages will not go up.

This is a federal issue and states elected officials are using it for an election purpose. How disgraceful!

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bd 6 years, 2 months ago

load them all up and ship them back home asap!

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Haiku_Cuckoo 6 years, 2 months ago

Mitt Romney is the only presidential candidate will work for American Citizens. -illegal aliens need to get in line like everybody else out of the country.

The illegals will get in line...as soon as they finish painting Romney's mansion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/07/romney-housepainters-unde_n_75744.html

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ASBESTOS 6 years, 2 months ago

"At a news conference, House Minority Leader Dennis McKinney, D-Greensburg, said focusing on employers would remove the "magnet" that lures illegal immigrants."

And just how is a law giving illelgal aliens a break on tuition that affects only 243 illegal aliens in total, "gettting rid of the magnets"?

You have to get rid of ALL magnets, including the tuition break that out of state CITIZENS do not get.

Equality, remember that one?

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delta777 6 years, 2 months ago

Mitt Romney is the only presidential candidate will work for American Citizens.

He has the best plan for the ECONOMY, stimulus and illegal immigration (unleash economic capital, reduce the burden on OLDER AMERICANS --ILLEGAL ALIENS need to GET IN LINE like everybody else out of the country).

4 years ago --- before the illegals marched in our streets --- Romney opposed a bill that would have allowed illegal aliens to get drivers licenses. "Those who are here illegally should not receive tacit support from our government that gives an indication of legitimacy," the governor said.(Scott S. Greenberger, "Romney Stand Dims Chances Of License For Undocumented," The Boston Globe, 10/28/03)

--- Romney vetoed a bill in 2004 that would have permitted illegal aliens to pay the same in-state tuition rate paid by citizens at public colleges and universities in Massachusetts.

Gov. Romney had Massachusetts's State troopers trained to work with ICE

--Huckabee - slick talker, 12 ethical charges filed against him. --Huckabee wants Americans to subsidize illegal aliens college students instead of your kids, supported Drivers Licenses for illegals so they would be able to vote--Condemned ICE when they raided a Poultry plant and arrested 120 illegal aliens for stealing Social Security Cards, Birth certificates, etc. --Huckabee signed a No Amnesty pledge just last week to try and run from his liberal record. With just that pledge his immigration rating went from Abysmal to Very Good. Of course he said the McCain/Kennedy's immigration plan was not AMNESTY.

McCain - supports AMNESTY(co-authored McCain/Kennedy) and refers to Americans that disagree with him, as Racists and Bigots. He rejects tax cuts

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