Archive for Thursday, June 26, 2008

Poll: Bush is sinking economy

June 26, 2008

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— Three out of four Americans, including large numbers of Republicans, blame President Bush's economic policies for making the country worse off during the last eight years, according to a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll released Wednesday, reflecting a sharp increase in public pessimism during the last year.

Only 9 percent of respondents said the country's economic condition has become better off since Bush became president, compared with 75 percent who said conditions had worsened. Among Republicans, 42 percent said the country is worse off, while 26 percent said it is about the same, and only 22 percent said economic conditions had improved.

Phillip Thies, a registered Republican and clothing store owner in Cedar, Mich., who was one of those polled, said the president was doing an able job through the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, but that "right after that, it was steadily, steadily downhill."

"There has been a lack of leadership and a lack of timeliness of leadership, of not being conscious of the magnitude of the problems," Thies said of Bush in a follow-up interview. "He's always a day late and a dollar short."

Lois Coleman, 84, said, "I'm not as well off as I was before he was president and that pertains to all my friends, too, everyone I know." Coleman, of Floyds Knobs, Ind., described herself as an independent.

The economic pessimism has deepened sharply in the last year, intensified by higher fuel prices, the poll found.

When the question was asked in March 2007, 24 percent of respondents said Bush's policies had improved the nation's economy, and 46 percent said they had made it worse.

The increased unhappiness is reflected in an all-time low in Bush's approval rating - just 23 percent now, compared with 34 percent in February.

"It is no surprise that Americans are feeling very pessimistic about the economy - with rising gas and oil prices and food prices affecting their pocketbooks," said Times polling director Susan Pinkus. "They don't see an end to the rise in price. ... Americans blame the president, along with the oil companies, for not having done enough to stem the tide of rising gas prices."

According to 70 percent of respondents, the rising cost of fuel had caused hardship for their families, and the pain appeared spread across all income groups: Seventy-nine percent of people with incomes of less than $40,000 a year said the higher prices were a hardship, but so did 55 percent of respondents with incomes above $100,000.

Comments

dagopman 6 years, 9 months ago

Amazingly the approval rating for Congress, including our Kansas delegation, is lower than President Bush.

50YearResident 6 years, 9 months ago

cato-the-elder and Nancy Boy, it's time to take your heads out of the sand (or elsewhere) and quit trying to defend the worst President in the history of United States. Try to remember this is not the Democrats fault. It all turned down when the cheer leader boy took office.

Joe Hyde 6 years, 9 months ago

Think the economy is in bad shape now? Just wait until the bills start coming in for the mind-numbing amount the U.S. has borrowed from other nations to conduct warfare in Iraq.Dubya (and yes, the Congress) cut taxes for wealthy citizens and corporations but authorized no overall tax increase to cover what's being spent on the Iraq invasion/occupation.Among the nations we now owe billions (if not trillions) to there's China. Here we have the world's largest communist dictatorship loaning money to the world's largest democracy so that the world's largest democracy can prosecute a war that our elected leaders deliberately lied us into fighting.Folks, times are getting harder month by month, our nation's infrastructure is deteriorating, and we're soon gonna have to start paying back -- to a communist dictatorship yet -- the money we're borrowing from them, plus interest. What a country we've become in the last 8 years, and it's because Dubya has behaved like a kid playing with his dad's gun.

Rex Russell 6 years, 9 months ago

I expect certain people to defend or excuse the faults of this Administration to the end. Regardless of the facts. More so now, it's getting desperate and pathetic. We see them hear all the time. Usual responses include : MISDIRECTION: "But the Democrats have been in control of Congress for 18 months now. It's their fault". Doesn't make any difference as to whether Bush was a good President. Just sidestepping the facts. One hasn't much to do with the other. He did most of his damage during Republican control. Trying to make this Administration sound better by comparing it to Congress or specifically Democrats, doesn't make it good.FALSE INFORMATION : Spout spurious facts and figures.DENIAL : When called on the facts, just dispute them.DESPERATE DENIAL : Taking a page from the Administration playbook, if you get hard facts against what they've said, just call them a liar and assail their character. -WMD's, Valerie Plume, McClennen etc.DEEP DEEP DENIAL : Supporting this President despite all that has happened and all that has leaked out from the veil of secrecy. PATHETIC DENIAL : Having nothing to do every day of you life but blog on the LJW in defense of the indefensible

chet_larock 6 years, 9 months ago

"How are we going to pay for this war without raising taxes?"Hey dandy, the no-bid contracts that were just awarded to the huge oil companies are taking care of that. i'm sure they will get that oil flowing and start paying us back for the war just as soon as they can.

Kontum1972 6 years, 9 months ago

it is simply amazing how many support that goofball in the white house....and that ol' navy goofball who wants to be prez...continues to rattle the saber....esp after being held a POW ......my uncle was a POW during WW2 and when he was liberated from the concentration camp his mindset was anti war when he came home, and he remained that way clear up to the day he died....he got the big picture as to what war was all about. If McCain was that good of a naval aviator he wouldnt of been shot down by a SAM.

Rex Russell 6 years, 9 months ago

RReason- On the contrary, well educated and a registered Republican for years, and as far as gullible goes, if some objective person was to decide who was drinking the Kool-ade between you and me, you'd lose. I subtract the goofy left stuff and the fanatical right stuff on a regular basis. Sometime you ought to push aside your Star Wars action figures off your desk, come up from your mother's basement and get a new look at the world. You might finally admit to your self (but never to others) that this Administration has been a huge embarrassment for Republicans. But now that I've been officially insulted by one of LJW radical rightwing wingnutz, I can feel like I belong here. Kinda like a badge of Honor.

Rex Russell 6 years, 9 months ago

I don't expect miracles if Obama wins in November. What I am looking for is for the pendulum to swing back a little. More fiscal responsibility all around. What is spent is spent directly on America, should be less corporate/lobbyist handouts, more investment in the American public and infrastucture, and focus on the massive debt owed to lender nations. It will probably hurt to pay the bills. It does when I have to. What has been spent so far by the Administration and Congress so far in the last 5 years or so has been horrendous. This administration, along with it's Republican lapdogs in Congress (along with the spineless Democrats in Congress) have made a mockery of fiscal common sense. Obama can't possibly do worse if he gets there. Neither could McCain.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 9 months ago

While any poll conducted by the Los Angeles Times has to be immediately suspect, the only thing more pathetic than people thinking that their 401(k)s and their homes will always go up in value is the gravely mistaken notion that presidential administrations have much to do with either good or bad economic news. For gosh sakes, folks, the Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006 - why not blame them? Aren't Congress's approval ratings even lower than the president's? Take the person interviewed in Michigan - everything's o.k. until 9-11, but then goes downhill - hello? Doesn't he realize the profoundly negative impact 9-11 had on our economy and how seriously it crippled certain segments of it? How about Hurricane Katrina? How about the subprime crisis, for which too many of our fellow citizens are are themselves squarely to blame? How about the Federal Reserve, which acts independently of the White House? Do they not realize that oil prices are the result of worldwide supply and demand and international speculation engineered by people such as head Obama money-man George Soros himself? Wasn't it President Bush who said that our main energy problem is our "addiction to oil?" Get real, folks - many of you are upset that gas costs $4 a gallon and the Dow has dropped, so you have to blame the government instead of taking time to learn how national and international markets work. The most insidious part of this is, of course, that by blaming government for perceived problems such as these the obvious corollary is that government can "solve the problem," which is the least effective method of all - and both political parties advocate this in lockstep fashion, day in and day out, depending on who's in or out of office. Our prosperity since WW II has caused us to become a very, very spoiled bunch of people - which has arguably been the greatest danger facing our nation for a considerable period of time.

Rex Russell 6 years, 9 months ago

You are right RReason, I am what the Democrats are looking for, but not that I'm somehow self-illusioned enough to belief that they can do it sooooooo much better.Both parties are bought and sold. But nothing has been like this Administration. I'll take Obama or McCain. Again, it can't be worse. Either would be an improvement. McCain has too many lobbyists in his camp for my comfort and Obama needs to back up all his high-minded talk with concrete action. Remains to be seen. The Republicans need to be reminded of what they u s e d to stand for. Only enough government that is needed. Fiscal responsibilty above all else. Stop mixing politics and religeon. Protect or people and our individual rights. These last 5 years or so have pushed normal Republicans over the edge and into voting Independant or Democrat. Go back to that core and they'll stop making new Democrats out of old fed up Repulicans. No one to blame but, the mistake that was neocons.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 9 months ago

50Year, are you of sufficient age to recall how many people said that Harry Truman was the worst president in the history of the United States before he left office, and for some time thereafter? I will continue to prefer to let those judgments be made by the test of time.

beatrice 6 years, 9 months ago

This is news? What is next, a poll that concludes that most think sky is blue, water is wet, and it is darker at night than it is during the day. Bush is a failure, and we hopefully have learned not to vote for our drinking buddy.Obama for President!

Godot 6 years, 9 months ago

Did you know that the CEO of JP Morgan Stanley, the financial institution that received a multi billion dollar loan/gift from the Federal Reserve in order to buy Bear Stearns, sits on the Board of the Federal Reserve? Did you know that he is the one who suggested the Fed help JP Morgan "rescue" Bear Stearns?Did you know that the executives of Bank of America helped to author the mortgage "rescue" bill that is before the House and Senate, and this bill will funnel billions of dollars into Bank of America and other bad actors in the mortgage debacle? And that both Democrats and Republicans back this bill?I saw a quote today that says it all, it went something like, "The mortgage brokers have done more harm to the US than Al Qaeda ever did." I would insert "and Congress" right after "mortgage brokers" in that sentence.

sfjayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

How many spending bills has bush vetoed? The only veto I remember was the one on stem cell research. Now we have a huge debt, and will die of the same diseases that our grandparents did. Great job W - history will not judge you kindly.

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

chet_larock (Anonymous) says:"the iraq war has not had a significant effect on the economy."hahahhahaha!! Ignorance is bliss.Chet, the Iraq war has had a positive effect on the Bush supporters. They have plenty of investments in Helliburton and other "contractors" who are ripping off tax dollars. They make a lot of money, they benefit from tax cuts, then they tell others they should do what it takes to get ahead, ethical or not. If the rest of the country suffers, it's of no concern to them, because we are stupid enough to love our country more than we love the bottom line. Keep most people down by making them focus on only 1 issue, or by making celebrity news the most important of the day or by scaring them, then they can get away with all they can. They may be going too far, when they can no longer control the economy and people start noticing that the "trickle down" isn't happening. More and more people are starting to sit up and take notice, and unless they are totally mind dead, they won't put up with it long. Communism was an extreme reaction to the robber barons. What do you suppose will be the answer to the corporate dictatorship? By the way, Bush groupies. How are we going to pay for this war without raising taxes? I'm still waiting.

sfjayhawk 6 years, 9 months ago

RR -you voted for a cocaine-snorting, AWOL Vietnam dodging, drunk - TWICE!!!

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

RestoreReason,Shall we get back to the issue. Your tactic of always bringing up past presidents is evading the here and now. I have a feeling there will be a lot more come out once he is out of office and their relationships with Helliburton and all the others, unless they end up buying the next president and congress.

Sigmund 6 years, 9 months ago

Odd that polls would single out any Presidents impact upon the economy. Congress creates and passes the US budget each year and without the line item veto all the President can do is accept or reject it whole. Any praise or criticism should attach to both branches of the government and both parties.In a larger sense US voters are ultimately responsible for continuing to elect pork barrel politicians who because of their short term aspirations to be elected next year don't mind spending the country into long term record debt. But if it is easier for you to believe misleading polls from politically biased newspapers that attempt to scapegoat one person or party based upon their misunderstanding or misstatement of the federal government budget process, you should feel comforted and morally superior.

chet_larock 6 years, 9 months ago

"the iraq war has not had a significant effect on the economy."HAHAHHAHAHA!! Ignorance is bliss.

bearded_gnome 6 years, 9 months ago

not odd at all, the la times is far left, and in a recent presidential preferance poll, they found obama favored by double digits, but when the fine print was examined ... lo and behold, democrat voters were overrepresented [gasp]. very shady. shady just for asking the question the way they did. if gas prices were below $3.50, this poll would look different! Among the nations we now owe billions (if not trillions) to there's China. Here we have the world's largest communist dictatorship loaning money to theworld's largest democracy so that the world's largest democracy can prosecute a war that our elected leaders deliberately lied us into fighting.--don't let facts get in the way of a good rant! hate to correct you, old manno evidence our leaders "lied" us into war. should be spelled preference. , but India is the world's largest democracy! thus, everything else you cite is suspect. your antiwar hatred has colored your view: the iraq war has not had a significant effect on the economy. and Barrypender, yes, growth is coming back up! we may have dodged the recession. tom, one thing we know is that barry h. obama wants to raise taxes, like cap gains, now that we are so close to recession. the single most stupid idea ever promoted in a presidential campaign, and if americans had any economic education instead of "heather has two mommies," they'd laugh him off the stage. increasing taxes on economic activity* can very well push us back into recession!

chet_larock 6 years, 9 months ago

RR -you voted for a cocaine-snorting, AWOL Vietnam dodging, drunk - TWICE!!!

Godot 6 years, 9 months ago

Bush is to blame in so much as he did not get rid of Alan Greenspan when he took office, and because he allowed Greenspan's sycophant, Ben Bernanke, to succeed Greenspan. All of Congress is to blame, as well.I give credit to the Justice Department for its prosecution of financial criminals since 2001, beginning with Enron and now with the indictments of Bear Stearns executives, and investigations into UBS fraud, and arrest of over 400 mortgage brokers just in the last week. There are so many crooks on Wallstreet, and they have such deep influence and power over Congress, that it is no wonder that things have gotten to this point.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 9 months ago

Yes Bush is sinking the economy and he's doing it all by himself because congress couldn't be to blame or market forces. But he is the idiot that got himself elected twice when gore or kerry couldn't manage it at all and they are sooo much smarter then Bush. I can't wait to beat up on obama but he will just blame Bush too. Yes for the next two hundred years it will be Bush's fault for everything.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

dandelion...When did I say I was opposed to welfare, or not paying for the Iraq war?"My point is that we do not have a capitalist society."This is where we disagree. While we do not have a pure free market system, and we have too much regulation, we are still in essence a capitalistic economy.If I had to choose between abandoning capitalism or abandoning our government, I would choose the latter.

BigPrune 6 years, 9 months ago

George Soros and his hedge fund buddies are sinking the US economy by jacking up oil prices in the futures market to get Barack Obama elected, 75% of Americans are just too stupid to realize it.

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

"When did I say I was opposed to welfare, or not paying for the Iraq war?"I must have been confusing you with some of the people who are for spending trillions on a war, but don't want to pay the taxes.I agree that basic capitalism is a good thing, but when large corporations become despotic then capitalism doesn't exist, quality suffers. Competition is still there, but some of these so called capitalist corporations would like to eliminate it all together, and be monopolies. Yes, this sounds paranoid, but some people just seem to want more money than they could ever spend, so it pushes them to unethical heights, and regulations don't do any good stopping them, because they have bought and paid for the people who are suppose to make and enforce the regulations. For example, how many companies just get a slap on the wrist for polluting? A fine that they just pass on as a cost of doing business.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Interesting that this article strongly coorelated Bush with the failiy economy, but says nothing about the Democratic Congress which has an even lower approval rating than Bush. Although I am sure that any liberal will respond that Bush is really the only one to blame, because that is what article's like this tell them to believe.Bill Clinton said it best when he said (I am paraphrasing) that the President has very little impact on the economy. Although I do have to say that we as a country are spending way too much money, which is partially the cause for inflation.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Where is the leadership when we need it? Congress is to blame. Vote Republican for Congress, and get these idiots out of office that our ruining our economy.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Agnostick..Do you think the democrats, who control congress, deserve any blame for the failing economy?(Try to answer without referencing Bush)

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

I flagged a post by someone who explicitly advocated shooting everyone who voted for Bush, and it hasn't been removed. It does seem kinda inconsistent which post the LJWorld decides to remove.

cato_the_elder 6 years, 9 months ago

And, Godot, depending on your income, your preference concerning your retirement savings will be further thwarted in the event Senator Obama is elected and succeeds in his goal of raising the cap on social security payroll taxes.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 9 months ago

RestoreReason (Anonymous) says:"RestoreReason has yet to have a comment deleted."I think you spoke too soon.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Agnostick, logicsound04:I personally do not entirely blame the democrats; but I also do not entirely blame the President. However, I think they are both somewhat to blame. If the last two years of the democrats being in congress don't count, then the last two years of Bush being in office don't count. In fact 2 is an arbitrary number, the last 8 years don't count. We can therefore conclude Iraq never really happened. The truth is every month matters, and the democrats are partially to blame because they have been slow to respond to the many negative economic indicators these past two years, just like Bush was slow to respond after Katrina.The Bush tax cuts in 2001 is the reason the economy didn't go into a depression after 9/11. Tax cuts increase government revenue and help the economy; this is a proven economic fact.I agree that Presidents erroneously get credit (Clinton) or blame (Carter) for a bad economy, but that is my point of questioning this article. Shouldn't the same standard apply to Bush?

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Agnostick:I will have to discuss the merits of privatized social security, and the insanity of our current system some other time. Suffice it to say the key to mitigating your problem is, forced diversification.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 9 months ago

"The world *knows we do not torture..."Oh yeah??? The biggest story of the Iraq war has not enjoyed any coverage in America, though it has been exploding across the international news media for several weeks now. The biggest story of the Iraq war is about the torture of Iraqi children.A German TV magazine called 'Report Mainz' recently aired accusations from the International Red Cross, to the effect that over 100 children are imprisoned in U.S.- controlled detention centers, including Abu Ghraib. "Between January and May of this year, we've registered 107 children, during 19 visits in 6 different detention locations," said Red Cross representative Florian Westphal in the report.The report also outlined eyewitness testimony of the abuse of these children. Staff Sergeant Samuel Provance, who was stationed at Abu Ghraib, said that interrogating officers had gotten their hands on a 15 or 16 year old girl. Military police only stopped the interrogation when the girl was half undressed. A separate incident described a 16 year old being soaked with water, driven through the cold, smeared with mud, and then presented before his weeping father, who was also a prisoner.Seymour Hersh, the New Yorker reporter who first broke the story of torture at Abu Ghraib, recently spoke at an ACLU convention. He has seen the pictures and the videotapes the American media has not yet shown. "The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking," said Hersh. "And this is your government at war."Reports of abuses at Abu Ghraib and other American prisons have been public knowledge since the release of the Taguba Report. Recently, however, some 106 annexes to the report, previously classified, have also been released. U.S. News and World Report detailed the sum of what is contained in these annexes in an article titled 'Hell on Earth.'In it, U.S. News says, "The abuses took place, the files show, in a chaotic and dangerous environment made even more so by the constant pressure from Washington to squeeze intelligence from detainees. Riots, prisoner escapes, shootings, corrupt Iraqi guards, unsanitary conditions, rampant sexual misbehavior, bug-infested food, prisoner beatings and humiliations, and almost-daily mortar shellings from Iraqi insurgents--according to the annex to General Taguba's report, that pretty much sums up life at Abu Ghraib." According to coalition intelligence officers cited in a Red Cross report from last May, between 70% to 90% of Iraqi detainees held in these prisons were arrested "by mistake." That means they were innocent.

Godot 6 years, 9 months ago

Anyone who is on the fence regarding Obama should read the posts of the Obama supporters on this thread and tremble for our future should they be put in power.

jayhawklawrence 6 years, 9 months ago

George Bush violated several fundamental American values, ideals. 1) He invaded a country when it was unnecessary2) He made us look like a country that condones torture3) He made us look like a country that will sacrifice ethics for oil.4) He changed the focus from the terrorists in Afghanistan and Bin Ladin to 6 years of BS that just embarrassed our country in front of the world.5) He demonstrated over and over again that he is a total Knucklehead.The good thing he did for us:1) He demonstrated that no matter who is heading up this funny farm, the Republicans we elected and depend on to protect us and make logical decisions and solve problems did not have the guts to stand on their own and do their job. They caved in to the Republican party leadership.Shame on them! Shame on people like Jim Ryun.We don't need milers in congress, we need loyal Americans who will stand up for us instead of being Rubber STAMPS!I voted for Boyda because she is passionate and she cares..and...she's NOT LAZY!

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

SatiricalSo I assume you are against the Iraq war and giving money to Helliburton. I know my history. We used to have a Corp of Engineers who rebuilt things after WWII. My uncle use to be a cook in the army. He was paid like a regular soldier. I'll bet they spend a lot more feeding soldiers by giving companies like Helliburton the money to do it. Whatever happened to kp duty? Why do we hire mercenaries to protect US embassies? This war has made a lot of opportunists very rich.

Godot 6 years, 9 months ago

Agree with your last post, in general, Ag, but add that there are people in the House and Senate and in the Federal Reserve who behave as though it is their primary responsibility to protect the very institutions you mentioned.Add to the list, Countrywide, whose CEO is under indictment, and has been sued by the AG's in at least three states, made VIP loans to the two ranking Democrats on the Banking committee in the Senate.The financial institutions, investment banks and hedge funds are the largest donors to the members of Congress who pass legislation granting billions of taxpayer dollars in relief to sheild them and their stockholders from suffering from their actions which, in the kindest of words would be called malfeasance, and more likely fraudulent and criminal.In short, though we should not put our money in the hands of the mutual funds and investment banks at this time, we certainly cannot trust Congress to protect our future retirement funds. They have already misdirected and misspent the funds we have already given them for "safekeeping."As long as the option of purchasing individual stocks, or saving money in a simple CD or savings account, is made available, I far prefer private retirement savings accounts to entrusting Congress with our retirement savings to provide for us in our old age.

BrianR 6 years, 9 months ago

Satirical (Anonymous) says:"I support tax cuts, but I also support cutting government spending."Yep!

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

"The costs of the WOT and its unaffiliated distraction, "Operation Iraqi Fiasco," should rightfully be shouldered by us-not by our children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. If for no other reason, the 2001 Bush Tax Cuts should've been repealed in early 2002, if not sooner. This is another position I have taken many times in the past, and continue to stand by."Great post Ag. I keep trying to get the Bush supporters to defend tax cuts when we have a war to pay for, but they never respond. They want a war, but they don't want to pay for it, yet they try and pass themselves off as patriots.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Failing companies don't show our economic system is weak (although sometimes is the result of illegal action), it shows our economy is strong. In many socialist countries, companies are artificially supported despite their inefficiency, wasteful spending and incompetence. In the private sector if you aren't effecient, thrify and competent you go out of business; and that is exactly how it should be. I want companies to fail if they do not fill a market need. If only government were as efficient and were as accountable to the people as companies in the private sector.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

dandelion...I support tax cuts, but I also support cutting government spending. As a fiscal conservative, in my opinion, huge deficits are the worst legacy Bush has left.

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

In the private sector if you aren't effecient, thrify and competent you go out of business; and that is exactly how it should be. Then why is BearStearns still in business? And didn't the government bail out a car company back in the 80's or 70's? And don't they give businesses subsidies and tax breaks? In the private sector businesses shouldn't ask for tax breaks or ask city governments to share in their risk. Their investors should take on the risk, period. If they lose, then they should suffer the consequences. If they win, they should get rich. But we sure have a lot of CEO's who destroy companies, but get paid millions of dollars. They are rewarded whether or not they fail. I guess we live in a corporate socialist world.

a_flock_of_jayhawks 6 years, 9 months ago

RR says,'After AnxiousAtheist claimed that he was an educated person, I noted that he wrote "theirselves." /a_flock_of_jayhawks land on soapbox/Which points out the arrogance in your posts here and a signature MO for you, pal.Blogs, which I can gather you are fairly familiar with, are a bit more free form conversation than a novel. Sometimes, posters make a casual grammatical mistake, sometimes a post from an individual might reveal something of more substance relative to the topic. To attack the messenger over a minor error is childish, adds nothing of weight to the discussion, and doesn't address the matter at hand, side-tracking and inhibiting dialog of substance. To further insult them by always associating them with ignorance is petty and ignorant.Exactly how does that behavior add to the discussion?/a_flock_of_jayhawks fly away from soapbox/

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

"I don't have to use my own words because the news stories speak for themselves, and if I merely expressed an opinion.."Guess that you missed the point about "blogging" and "forming your own opinion" that is the essence of free speech.What you are saying is tha you have no worthwhile opinions, and you beliefs are difficult to defend without enlisting the opinions of others.That is pretty intellectually weak.

dandelion 6 years, 9 months ago

Simply because the government does on occasion bail out companies, give tax breaks and subsidies, does not mean we have abandoned all the ideals of capitalism. Yet I've known individuals who were bailed out by the government. A girl I graduated with married a guy who beat her up. She tried to make it work, but finally left. She was on welfare for 3 years until she got enough training to get a decent job, and now is on her feet again. Another guy I worked with was disabled in a motorcycle accident, and collected disability for 5 years. He was finally able to get some training on computers, so he doesn't need disability anymore. Are there those who cheat the system, yes. Just like there are companies who cheat the system. But you defend subsidizing businesses who make stupid decisions, and at the same time want to eliminate a welfare system that has helped people who often are there through no fault of their own. Everyone talks about the lazy bums on welfare, but a car company that can't follow what the buyers want (fuel efficiency) and keeps on making gas guzzlers could be called lazy Of course, I will concede that if they fall apart there will be more of those welfare "bums" out there. You know those people who lose their jobs through no fault of their own and expect the government to bail them out. My point is that we do not have a capitalist society. Don't put down people who need help in a bad situation, then jump on board when a company needs the same help. And be willing to pay the taxes to help out these companies, don't force the government to run deficits. Just like the war. If you are in favor of it, then help pay for it. It's simple.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Dandelion:Simply because the government does on occasion bail out companies, give tax breaks and subsidies, does not mean we have abandoned all the ideals of capitalism. I do not always agree with the government bails out companies, I think they should let more airlines fail, but sometimes the government has a legitimate interest such as national security reasons.A tax break is keeping the government out of the private sector, not asking the government to step in. Tax breaks such as depreciation and amortization encourage investment and economic development. I think that many subsidies should be repealed, like the ones for corn based ethanol that Obama supports b/c he has so many close ties to ethanol lobbyists. However some subsidies are necessary to offset foreign subsidies, which would drive American companies out of business, then subsequently become a monopoly and raise prices. I agree with you that CEO's get paid way too much money when they risk nothing. I don't mind people who take risks from getting big rewards, such as a Bill Gates. But the government does not establish CEO's remuneration, the private sector decides. This is partially solved by shareholders electing a better board of directors.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

max1...I think what you failed to clearly state is; if what is good for GM is good for America, then by negative inference what is bad for GM is bad for America. This however if faulty logic. On a related note; it would be really nice if more people could form arguments rather than just give examples implying their argument.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

"1) He invaded a country when it was unnecessary""you would have to include all the Senators and House Reps that voted on the war as well, and had access to the dame darn intelligence reports."2) He made us look like a country that condones torture"The world *knows we do not torture and that those cutting heads off their prisoners, and using electric drill and have "troture manuals" with electrocutions is truley "torture" waterboarding does not damage the prisoners, as much as a drill bit up the caboose of having your shoulder drilled. How about a drill bit in the hip, befroe you get hung from a meathook and eletrodes hooked to your genitilia? That is what the rest of the world does to us, waterborading and listening to loud music is not even in the same moral catagory and yuo should be intellectually honest enough to make that distincition. You hate Bush fine, but don'e sell out your country."3) He made us look like a country that will sacrifice ethics for oil."True!"4) He changed the focus from the terrorists in Afghanistan and Bin Ladin to 6 years of BS that just embarrassed our country in front of the world."See number 1, the rest of the congress and house helped in totality."5) He demonstrated over and over again that he is a total Knucklehead."With the border TRUE, and with the economy, TRUE. Tax breaks, no, and having America protect itself no.

OnlyTheOne 6 years, 9 months ago

"Tax the Rich to Feed the PoorUntil There are No Rich No More."Ten Years After - I'd Love to Change the World and kinda, anyway, the Democratic Marching Anthem.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Dandelion:I don't think there is room on this post to discuss all that you need to learn about business and the law. Companies are not all evil, despite what the liberal propaganda wants you to believe. Why is it so evil to take a risk, or learn to do something better and more efficiently than someone else, and be successful? If our country keeps punishing people who sacrifice and work hard to get ahead, then people will stop trying. Anti-trust laws exist to prevent monopolies, and these laws are enforced by judges (not the legislature whom you believe are entirely corrupt.) Companies also have to follow government regulations on polluting or pay fines. I am not claiming all the laws are enforced perfectly but I think it is a little silly to say they have absolutely no effect. Plus, what is wrong with passing on costs to consumers? After all we could just stop buying the product.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

max1...Again, rather than just copying and pasting, how about you try to make an argument.

jumpin_catfish 6 years, 9 months ago

OnlyTheOne says: "Tax the Rich to Feed the PoorUntil There are No Rich No More."That would be communism but nice attempt at something intelligent. Not!

fan4kufootball 6 years, 9 months ago

The state our country is in right now is not the fault of one person. Where we are is the accumulation of many years of congress, many presidents and the fact they we are all spoiled. We all are materialistic, selfish people. We all want homes that are bigger than or bank accounts, cars that are bigger and better than our neighbors and just loads of stuff in general. If we would all just get back to the basics of our needs rather than our wants this whole country would be better off. Mayself included.

Satirical 6 years, 9 months ago

Odd that they same people who "knew that Bush was not fit to be President" are someone blinded that Obama is also not fit to be President.Despite all of Bush's shortcomings, because of yesterday's U.S. Supreme Court decision on the 2nd amendment, I am finally glad I voted for him in 04.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 9 months ago

"Talk to your elders about how much fun that era was."Large chunks of those elders became life long Democrats as a result of the Depression and FDR's actions on behalf of common Americans. Something that we are about to see repeated as a generation of voters reacts to the mistakes, abuses and crimes of the bush administration.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 9 months ago

The "w" stands for Worst. 206 days and the nation's terrible ordeal is over!!

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

"sounds like he was doing what he was elected to do."So a partisian punk like you would say the same of Pres. Bush?

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

"But it became evident to many during and after Katrina that all W was going to do was 'watch'."As someone that voted for Bush, I have to say this is a true statment.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 9 months ago

"The Republican Party is a dead rotting carcass with a few decrepit old leaders stumbling around like zombies in a horror version of Weekend With Bernie [sic], handcuffed to a corpse."""If we were dog food, they would take us off the shelf." Rep. Tom Davis

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

Wake up beo, if you think that only the "R's" have "rich strong supporters" you need a mental enema. Obama has the corn based ethanol subsidy folks on his team despite the environmental damage it does and the food shortage corn based ethanol causes?Did you also see 2 vetos of the "partial birth abortion ban"? Don;t you think that Clinton was responding to his "stong supporters" as well?The problem with people like you is that you drink the koolaide, and then thaink everyone else is "closed minded".As I have said before, we GOPers recognize our politicians are butheads, the Dems think their politicians are pure as wind driven snow, like that buthead Christopher Dodd and his "VIP mortgage" from Countrywide as he is investigating Countrywide mortgage, and trying to pass a bill to give countrywide mortgage a billion dollar bailout.You think that is OK because he is a dem?

janeyb 6 years, 9 months ago

"Only 9 percent of respondents said the country's economic condition has become better off since Bush became president,"Who are these people and where do they live? Where do they work? Oil executives?

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

  1. Vetoed H.R. 1469, Supplemental Appropriations and Recissions Act, FY 1997. 19. Vetoed H.R. 1122, the second attempted partial birth abortion ban. 20. Vetoed H.R. 2631, a line item veto override bill.[16] Overridden 21. Vetoed S. 1502, District of Columbia Student Opportunity Scholarship Act of 1997. 22. Vetoed H.R. 2709, Iran Missile Proliferation Sanctions Act of 1998. 23. Vetoed H.R. 2646, Education Savings and School Excellence Act of 1998.24. Vetoed H.R. 4101, Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1999.25. Vetoed H.R. 1757, Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998. 26. Vetoed H.R. 2488, Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999. 27. Vetoed H.R. 2587, District of Columbia Appropriations Act, 2000. 28. Vetoed H.R. 2606, Foreign Operations, Export Financing, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, 2000. 29. Vetoed H.R. 2670, Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2000. 30. Vetoed H.R. 3064, FY 2000 District of Columbia and Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies appropriations bill. 31. Vetoed S. 1287, Nuclear Waste Policy Amendments Act of 2000. 32. Vetoed H.R. 4810, Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000. 33. Vetoed H.R. 8, Death Tax Elimination Act of 2000. 34. Vetoed H.R. 4733, Energy and Water Appropriations Act, 2001. 35. Vetoed H.R. 4516, Legislative Branch and the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act, 2001. 36. Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2001. 37. H.R. 2415, Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2000.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

You expect me to believe that with the whoppers you have told on these posts in the past? You are a legend only in your mind.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

"Anyone who thinks that the split is still along the lines of 50-50 today, however, is an unobservant fool."That would have been the "party split" The reality is a 25/50/25, with the 50% being independants that like neither party. I am in that group.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

President Clinton had 37vetos, and did not pick up the VETO pen until after the 1994 "Republican Revolution" in which he vetoed 8 bills between 1994 and 1996, anter Republicans got a mahorities in the House and Senate, there were then 29 vetos. ( INcomparision Pres. Bush has only vetoed 6 bills after losing the control of House and Senate, most all in 2007, so much for the "myth" of Democrats being bipartisian, especially the Clinton's) :Bill ClintonSee federal government shutdown of 1995 for more on the vetoed appropriations bills in 1995.1. Vetoed H.R. 1158, Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Additional Disaster Assistance and Recissions for Fiscal Year 1995. 2. Vetoed S. 21, Bosnia and Herzegovina Self-Defense Act of 1995. 3. Vetoed H.R. 1854, Legislative Branch Appropriations Act, FY 1996. 4. Vetoed H.J.RES. 115, Second Continuing Resolution for fiscal year 1996. 5. Vetoed H.R. 2586, Temporary Increase in the Statutory Debt Limit. 6. Vetoed H.R. 2491, Seven-Year Balanced Budget Reconciliation Act of 1995.7. Vetoed H.R. 1977, Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1996.8. Vetoed H.R. 2099, Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1996.9. Vetoed H.R. 1058, Private Securities Litigation Act of 1995. Overridden 10. Vetoed H.R. 2076, Departments of Commerce, Justice, and State, the Judiciary, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 1996. 11. Vetoed H.R. 1530, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996.12. Vetoed H.R. 4, Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act of 1995.13. Vetoed H.R. 1833, banning partial birth abortions. Overridden in House, 285-137 (282 needed).14. Vetoed H.R. 1561, Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1996 and 1997. 15. Vetoed H.R. 956, Common Sense Product Liability Legal Reform Act of 1996. 16. Vetoed H.R. 743, Teamwork for Employees and Managers Act of 1995.17. Vetoed H.R. 2909, Silvio O. Conte National Fish and Wildlife Refuge Eminent Domain Prevention Act.

hwarangdo 6 years, 9 months ago

Bottom line - our country is in big trouble and the man at the helm is the prez, Mr. Bush. Any and all attempts by the dems in congress to help correct problems has gotten the good ole' boy VETO by Bush. Even when the majority of citizens support solutions, those same solutions have gotten the same VETO. Let's see who's behind that veto? Helliburton, Cheney, mega oil/gas/coal, the 'war industry', the ultra-right ultra-rich who paid for Bush's election and subsequent 'vote' into the white house. Folks, these entities are running our country. And how much $$$$$$$$$$$$ do we owe that huge communist mammoth?! Think about that. Haven't we fought against communism? Isn't that something most Americans do NOT want to support? Or has communism simply become another pseudoism (go ahead, correct the spelling) guise for capitalism? Americans want cheap goods, so we import everything from green beans to computers to who knows what else, from the biggest chairman mao followers in the world. What's with that move? Checkmate.My parents survived WWI, the Depression, and served in WWII - if alive I know they'd be very unhappy with what Bush and his cohorts have done with this country. It is a sham and a shame.Now voters have a chance to at least attempt to change things for the better.For those who like what the industrial/military complex (thanks for warning us Ike) is doing to our country, please just sail through into history.For those of us who wish to proceed with change, however difficult that may be, we'll be more than happy to see the bushivics gone ...

jayhawklawrence 6 years, 9 months ago

One of the things we need to do to move forward in this country is for leaders to have the character to admit they made a mistake and ask forgiveness.We are supposed to be a nation founded on Christian ideals and this is one of the big ones. The fact that our leaders lack this fundamental understanding is proof that we have strayed far from the path.I believe the American people just want to be able to forgive, forget and move forward. As far as I can see, Obama is the only one out there that has a chance of changing the political environment.

jayhawklawrence 6 years, 9 months ago

Here's a positive on the Bush legacy. He was not able to privatize social security and pump hundreds of billions of easy cash to spend in his corporate buddies accounts. We did not hear the giant sucking sound of money flowing out of future senior citizen bank accounts.But I am sure there are still a lot of FDR haters out their "aka: Rush Limbaugh lovers" wanting to take us back to the "good ole days" when your parents could not afford food or medicine".

JohnBrown 6 years, 9 months ago

Cato- The problem is that all the woes you mention happened on W's "watch", and he wasn't 'watching' very well.Everyone gave W a pass on 9/11, and he got a reluctant pass on the Iraq war. But it became evident to many during and after Katrina that all W was going to do was 'watch'.The subprime crisis has its roots with the doubling of world-wide wealth in a short 15 years, mainly within China and India. The world became awash in cash which pushed people to invent new financial investment instruments...mostly subprime loans. (This is another example where unfettered capitalism fails miserably, leading to a big bust...there was no regulation of this market, and like unregulated markets of the past -where greed overtakes sanity- it grew into a boil or bubble that necessarily had to burst). And all W did was 'watch' (and let the banks do things they shouldn't). The Fed under Greenspan had a lot to do with this too (he refused to believe that in free markets greed could overtake sanity).W also refused, for the first time in American history, to pay for his war through taxes...rather, he borrowed the money. In doing so he doubled the nation's debt in a short seven years. Even so, there was not enough borrowed cash to keep our military strong.Because all W did was watch, and make some pretty incompetent decisions, we are in the mess we are in.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 9 months ago

"does the President believe we need to correct our lifestyles to address the energy problem?Ari Fleischer : That's a big no. The President believes that it's an American way of life, and that it should be the goal of policy makers to protect the American way of life. The American way of life is a blessed one."So I guess we can all admit bush has failed in this endeavor, as well.

Scott Drummond 6 years, 9 months ago

"With a 50/50 spilt in the country with R's and D's, I think your opinion is not correct and not backed up by the facts."Can't tell if you really don't understand my point, or if you are being disingenuous. My comment was about the generation of "elders" discussed in a prior post. If you do not understand that FDR create a lifelong block of voters with allegiance to the Democrat Party, then you need to study your history. With regard to the 50-50 split, that situation may have existed for a time recently, due, in my observation, in no small part to the efforts of the military/corporate/advertising interests. You can, indeed, fool most of the people for some of the time. Anyone who thinks that the split is still along the lines of 50-50 today, however, is an unobservant fool.

Centerville 6 years, 9 months ago

It wasn't until the early 60's, Milton Friedman's study of monetary policy to be precise, that we learned that FDR's control and tax policies actually strengthened and prolonged the Depression for at least nine years. That's a lot of suffering in the name of feel-good propaganda. And thirty years of the gullible buying into the notion that it's better to have the government micromanage the economy. Besides being hilarious, Obama's little play seal bears a creepy resemblance to the Nat'l Recover Act's Blue Eagle, even its motto "We Do Our Part". Talk to your elders about how much fun that era was.

ASBESTOS 6 years, 9 months ago

"Large chunks of those elders became life long Democrats as a result of the Depression and FDR's actions on behalf of common Americans."With a 50/50 spilt in the country with R's and D's, I think your opinion is not correct and not backed up by the facts. "Bottom line - our country is in big trouble and the man at the helm is the prez, Mr. Bush." True."Any and all attempts by the dems in congress to help correct problems has gotten the good ole' boy VETO by Bush."Not True. Bush has used the Veto very little, only 9 times, and one pocket veto. here is the list:George W. Bush1. July 19, 2006: Vetoed H.R. 810, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2005, a bill to ease restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research. Override attempt failed in House, 235-193 (286 needed).2. May 1, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1591, U.S. Troop Readiness, Veterans' Care, Katrina Recovery, and Iraq Accountability Appropriations Act, 2007. Override attempt failed in House, 222-203 (284 needed). A later version of the bill that excluded certain aspects of the initial legislation that the President disapproved of, H.R. 2206, was enacted as Pub.L. 110-28 with the President's approval.3. June 20, 2007: Vetoed S. 5, Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007.4. October 3, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 976, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007 ("SCHIP"). Override attempt failed in House, 273-156 (286 votes needed).5. November 2, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 1495, Water Resources Development Act of 2007. Overridden by House, 361-54 (277 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 79-14 (62 needed), and enacted as Pub.L. 110-114 over President's veto.6. November 13, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3043, Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act of 2008. Override attempt failed in House, 277-141 (279 votes needed).7. December 12, 2007: Vetoed H.R. 3963, Children's Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2007.[18] Override attempt failed in House, 260-152 (275 votes needed).8. December 28, 2007: Pocket Vetoed H.R. 1585, National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008[19]9. March 8, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2082, Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008.[20][21] Override attempt failed in House, 225-188.10. May 21, 2008: Vetoed H.R. 2419, 2007 U.S. Farm Bill.[22][23] Overridden by House, 316-108 (283 votes needed). Overridden by Senate, 82-13 (64 votes needed).

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