LJWorld.com

TopJayhawk (Anonymous) says…

Mancity, Read the article, then lets drop a 2,000 pounder on them. I say kill 'em all and let God sort it out. Reciprocity, or die.

bondmen (Anonymous) says…

Terrorist Training Camps in the US

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvjzjqXe6…

Homeland Security Implications of the Holy Land Foundation Trial

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/09/h…

powershopper (Anonymous) says…

“Why do we allow such schools in our country when nothing close to a Christian, Jewish or even secular school would be permitted in Saudi Arabia, whose government specifically treats as contraband any religious text other than the Koran and prohibits even private worship of any God but Allah?”

Cal, are you familiar with the Constitution of the United States?

Personally, I live in Arlington, VA (one town over from Alexandria) and my fiance grew up next door to the Saudi's Academy's annex in Fairfax. As a matter of fact, my future sister-in-law's (my fiance's sister) boyfriend is a practicing muslim from Syria who attended the academy. He is a pacifist and political activist who preaches against violence and advocates a peaceful resolution to the conflict in the Middle-East. She is a Jew. Whoa! I guess he was absent the day they had the lesson on hate. When you walk into their home, one of the first things you see is a framed photo of a Palestinian and Israeli child with their arms around each other's shoulders in a friendly embrace. They are both smiling.

Cal, you are part of the problem not the solution and this yellow-journalism sheaaat is about as bad as Mr. Simon's recent editorial on Gitmo. My friend from Syria is part of the solution and he attended the school you so liberally bash in your editorial. The irony.

barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Duhhh cal is not talking about nice muslims powershopper.

But you knew that, right?

ksdivakat (Anonymous) says…

What does the constitution have to do with a terrorist training camp…er islamic school??
**************************************************************
“at least one book still contained passages that extolled jihad and martyrdom, called for victory over one’s enemies and said the killing of adulterers and apostates was ‘justified.’”
****************************************************************
This should be concerning to you as an American! Believe it or not, you are an american first…..friend second………

temperance (Anonymous) says…

It’s rich irony that the one of Bush’s biggest op-ed buddies is condemning Saudi hegemony when Bush has strengthened the hand of Saudi Arabia like no other modern president. If Cal is worried the brainwashing power of the Saudis he could start with GWB.

“I told the Crown Prince how much I appreciate his vision for a peaceful and integrated Middle East, and how I appreciated his leadership in helping rally the Arab world toward that vision.”

“So there's a shared vision. And as to how to achieve that vision is something we must consult with our friends. And that's what this meeting was about. It went on quite a while because there was a lot to discuss, plus, I want you to know, I had the honor of showing him my ranch. He's a man who's got a farm and he understands the land, and I really took great delight in being able to drive him around in a pickup truck and showing him the trees and my favorite spots. And we saw a wild turkey, which was good. But we had a very good discussion, and I'm honored he came to visit.”
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/…

We saw a wild turkey, which was good.

bondmen (Anonymous) says…

“What follows are excerpts from textbooks used by Saudi children during the 2007-2008 school year, which really illustrate the House of Saud's devotion to tolerance, peace, and interfaith understanding.

1st Grade
“Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words—(Islam, hellfire)
'Every religion other than ____ is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters ____.'”

5th Grade
“A Muslim is forbidden to love and aid the unbelieving enemies of God….”

“Which of the following should you love in God, and which of them should you hate in God?
Example: One of your relatives who does not pray, does not fast, and does not worship God.
Answer: I hate him in God.”

“Just as Muslims were successful in the past when they came together in a sincere effort to evict the Christian crusaders from Palestine, so will Muslims and Arabs emerge victorious, God willing, against the Jews and their allies if they stand together and fight a true jihad for God….”

8th Grade
“Lesson Goals: 1) The student notes some of the Jews condemnable qualities….”

“God told his Prophet, Mohammed, about the Jews, who learned from part of God's book that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol worship, soothsaying and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil…”

“God told his Prophet Mohammed: say to those who cast aspersions on your religion: has anyone told you who will receive the harshest punishment from God on the Day of Resurrection? They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom he is so angry that he will never again be satisfied. Some of the people of the Sabbath were punished by being turned into apes and swine. Some of them were made to worship the devil…”

“God punished the Jews in several ways for their unbelief and error. Explain the ways….”

9th Grade
“The prophet said, 'The hour [of judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, until the Jew hides behind rocks and trees, until the rocks or the trees say, 'O Muslim! O servant of God! There is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him'….”

“(1) It is part of God's wisdom that the struggle between the Muslims and the Jews should continue until the hour of judgment. (2) The good news for Muslims is that God will help them against the Jews in the end, which is one of the signs of the hour of judgment….” ”

continued below…

bondmen (Anonymous) says…

“10th Grade
“Basic Elements of Zionist Faith:
The Jews are God's chosen people and the souls of the tribe of Israel are a part of God. Other souls are Satanic souls that are like the souls of animals.
The world belongs to the Israeli. It is his right to rule and he has sovereignty over the world in his capacity as God's chosen people above all humankind….”

“How the Zionists Achieve their Goals:
Sedition, ruses, and conspiracy theories throughout history…. The First World War: the Jews played a role in starting it….
Attempting to inundate peoples with vice and rampant prostitution…. They manage bars in Europe and America, as well as in Israel itself.
Gaining control over literature and the arts; spreading degenerate pornographic literature, and encouraging perverted trends in literature, thought and art.
Gaining control over the film industry in the Western world and elsewhere.
Fraud, bribery, theft, and swindles.”

“Homosexuality is one of the most disgusting sins and greatest crimes…. It is a vile perversion that goes against sound nature, and is one of the most corrupting and hideous sins…. The punishment for homosexuality is death. Both the active and passive participants are to be killed whether or not they have previously had sexual intercourse in the context of a legal marriage…. Some of the companions of the Prophet stated that [the perpetrator] is to be burned with fire. It has also been said that he should be stoned, or thrown from a high place.”

11th Grade
“The Prophet said, 'Do not greet Jews and Christians with the words 'Peace be upon you.' If you come upon one of them on the road, force him to the narrower part.'” ”

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/20…

staff04 (Anonymous) says…

Cal, you DO realize that your religion implicitly teaches hatred of those not like them, right?

powershopper (Anonymous) says…

barrypenders - There are mean muslims, christians, jews, etc.

ksdivacat - I am a friend first and an American second. I didn't know there were rules dictating how I should lead my life. Where did you come across this rule?

As for the Constitution of the United States, you should read it sometime. It really is interesting. There is this great passage in it, I believe the title is “Amendment 1” or “The 1st Amendment” or something like that. I have copied it below just in case you aren't familiar with it:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

bondmen (Anonymous) says…

Islam is much, much more than just a “religion”! The Muslim Allah is NOT the Creator God of the Holy Bible either.

It is a total way of life (cradle to grave - morning, noon and night) and to survive it, one must submit to it.

powershopper (Anonymous) says…

bondmen - See Catholocism :)

Kam_Fong_as_Chin_Ho (Anonymous) says…

“Liberals hate all religions except Islam, post 9/11.”
- Ann Coulter

I don't care for Ann Coulter, but some of the comments here make me realize that she may have a valid point.

powershopper (Anonymous) says…

Ho - Liberals hate intolerance, not what Ann Coulter said.

Do you have thoughts of your own to add to this discussion?

jafs (Anonymous) says…

The Bible has many passages in it that seem to justify hate and violence as well.

autie (Anonymous) says…

I'm thinking the old testament has a little similar fire and brimstone in it. Inquistion anyone?

Haiku_Cuckoo (Anonymous) says…

“Liberals hate intolerance”

I see. Liberals are tolerant, they would never say anything anti-Christian. Got it.

Thanks for the laugh. That made my day!

ReadingSports (Anonymous) says…

“The Bible has many passages in it that seem to justify hate and violence as well.”
Only to those that wish to twist it out of context, Jafs.

And last I remember the Inquistion ended 400 years ago. Didn't it? Ever hear of the Reformation? And most Christians condemn the Inquistion in no uncertain terms. In fact it was other Christians spoke out against that activity at the time. To be honest, this comes across as an ad hominem way to discredit Cal's viewpoint without a rational discussion.

Cal is talking about stuff going on today.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“Why do we allow such schools in our country when nothing close to a Christian, Jewish or even secular school would be permitted in Saudi Arabia, whose government specifically treats as contraband any religious text other than the Koran and prohibits even private worship of any God but Allah?”

Because we have a Constitution that does not discriminate between religions.

Cal is correct in that religious education is often nothing more than brainwashing and that this poses a threat to modern civilization and liberal democracy.

The muslims do it, but so do the christians right here in our country.

If the state department were to shut down this school, it would be required to do the same with christian schools that teach hatred of other religions, non-believers, and homosexuals.

I would say “Good riddance”, but then we do have this pesky Constitution…

Mimis_friend (Anonymous) says…

When I attended Sunday School at the Methodist Church, I remember the same kinds of things being thrown at me like:
Who is God's Son? If you don't believe that he is the Saviour of all Mankind and accept him as your personal savior you cannot have “eternal life”. This kind of Christian school is the same as what I read above and all of my friends at school went through the same. Just because the Saudis are teaching their religion in America doesn't make it wrong. I don't like those teaching either, but I remember what the constitution states about freedom of religion.

duplenty (Anonymous) says…

“I say kill 'em all and let God sort it out. Reciprocity, or die.”

Someone please put the toddler back in his play pen.

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

“Believe it or not, you are an american first…..friend second………”

––––––

This is nationalistic garbage. Nationalism is a milder version of facism.

I am a PERSON first and an American second. If that makes me an America-hater, than so be it.

=======================================

“1st Grade
“Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words—(Islam, hellfire)
'Every religion other than ____ is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters ____.'””

–––––-

How is this fundamentally different from Christian teaching? I was raised and confirmed Christian, and I explicitly remember being told that anyone who didn't find the Truth through Christ was wrong and condemned to go to Hell.

============================

“Cal is talking about stuff going on today.”

–––––-

Oh, so the church has stopped teaching that non-believers will be condemned to Hell? When did that happen?

Furthermore, the notion of the unfaithful being left out in the cold is a common theme among all three major monotheistic Western religions. To focus so single-mindedly on this aspect of Islamic philosophy is disingenuous.

And since it was pointed out that most Christians condemned the Inquisition at the time, let's not ignore the fact that most Muslims now do not condone the suicidal and homicidal violence that a few people use Islam to justify.

acg (Anonymous) says…

I was also wondering what the big deal was. There are all sorts of religious schools across America and they all teach their own brand of loony BS. Cal's just mad because this particular school teaches Muslim loony BS. And since Muslims are the enemy du jour, we have to condemn them and their teachings, right? Especially if they differ from our own.

barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

When was the last time a Christian beheaded someone in the name of their religion?

I'm googling now….

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

autie (Anonymous) says…

“I'm thinking the old testament has a little similar fire and brimstone in it. Inquistion[sic] anyone?”

Brilliant point. The inquisition era was succeeded by the enlightenment, the reformation, and the birth of secular government.

None of those three eras, or their equivalent, has ever touched the Muslim world, or Islam.

Cal is, like autie, simply expressing concern that the Muslims in general, and the Saudis specifically, need to completely reform their religion. The first step is to acknowledge that Mohammed was flawed, and that the Koran and Hadiths need to be edited.

Good catch, autie!

staff04 (Anonymous) says…

I got zapped for telling Mr. Nancy Boy that, based on the garbage he posts here and his offensive LTEs, he should look inside for intolerance. I hardly think that violates the TOU, so I am reposting it.

max1 (Anonymous) says…

http://sporkinthedrawer.typepad.com/phot…
http://www.hermes-press.com/bush_kiss.jp…

logicsound04 (Anonymous) says…

“When was the last time a Christian beheaded someone in the name of their religion?

I'm googling now….”

–––––––-

That's just idiotic.

I still can't get over how much the uber-right takes what terrorist extremists say to heart.

If a terrorist says he's doing something in the name of religion, then we better believe him and subsequently condemn that entire religion.

If a terrorist says he supports a certain U.S. political candidate, then we better believe them and subsequently suspect that candidate of having ties to Islamic extremism.

But since you ask, barrypenders:

http://jdallen.org/news/christian-terror…

The Holocaust was also a largely Christian-based initiative.

McVeigh was a Christian.

The IRA in Ireland.

Ku Klux Klan

Now before you try to tell me that none of those groups were committing their atrocities “in the name of Christianity”, please re-read my comment about terrorist extremists creating rationale for their acts that may or may not be valid. The bottom line is that no religion is exempt from having terrorist lurking among the people who lay claim to that faith.

But it's ridiculous to hold an entire religion accountable for a small section of the overall population.

ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

“enemy du jour”

Sorry, can't help this!:

“What's the enemy du jour?”
“It's the enemy of the day.”
“That sounds good, I'll have that.”

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

Religious brain-washing and indoctrination is indeed a threat, be it from mohamedans or from christists.

This is why the secular institutions established in the Constitution and grown through our country's history, including public education, are so important and need to be supported vigorously.

The war on public education is no less than an effort by the christist right to do away with their competition. They do not want reason, empiricism, and secular moderation to compete with their dogmas of intolerance and extremism.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

Didn't Ann Coulter say something about “bombing their countries and converting them to christianity”?

bkgarner is correct in that the rhetoric coming from christians is generally not as extreme as that coming from the muslims extremists.

I would argue that that is because of the western christian world's secular democracies and institutions. The muslim world does not have strong secular governments that frown on extremist religious spewings.

People are everywhere the same, and it is likely that in the absence of our secular institutions, the christist right would indeed revert to their atavistic underpinnings as seen now in the muslim world. We need only to look at christianity before the enlightenment and the rise os secular democracies.

So, bkgarner, thank your secular government and Costitution for the moderation displayed by most christians.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“Excuse me, but are you saying Christians are what's the matter with the public education system? Is this why so many inner-city public school systems, like KCMO are losing their accreditation?”

Wow, Nancy is beginning to connect the dots. I smell smoke. Must be his brain-gears grinding.

Some on the christian right want to do away with the Department of Education entirely. In lieu of this extremist measure, US public education is constantly underfunded and subject to things such as “vouchers”.

US public education is being underfunded such that failures as right_thinker describe are destined to happen.

Any more questions, New Warrior?

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“So Christians are causing the teacher to fail at teaching and thus causing the student to fail/drop-out at alarming rates?”

I will spoon-feed you, Nancy:
1) The free market dictates that higher wages attract more qualified people (e.g. teachers).

2) Salaries for teachers are low compared to other professions, so the best and brightest often do not end up in the classroom.

3) Teacher salaries are low because of the underfunded state of public education.

4) Public education is underfunded in part because of the desire by some on the right to abolish public education.

Q.E.D.

If you dispute any of these arguments, please explain.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“This same phenomenon does not seem to be occurring among practioners of Islam.”

Agreed, because most christians are buffered by secular governments and institutions.

barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Logicsound can we treat terrorists like McVeigh was treated?

jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Logicsound's post at 9:58 was spot on. I was raised Catholic and one of the main reasons I've moved away from that discipline is because while going through confirmation the point was hammered home that non-Catholic's were doomed. Even at 12 I had a problem with that.

On a different note, Max, may I ask what those links had to do with …… anything? That 'hermes' one looks like a fairly poor photoshop as well.

yourworstnightmare (Anonymous) says…

“Logicsound can we treat terrorists like McVeigh was treated?”

You mean tried, sentenced, and executed according to the laws of our country? Absolutely.

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

“Some on the christian right want to do away with the Department of Education entirely. In lieu of this extremist measure, US public education is constantly underfunded and subject to things such as “vouchers”.”

Extremist?

Google it.

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

“You mean tried, sentenced, and executed according to the laws of our country? Absolutely.”

How about tried, sentenced and executed in accordance with international rules of war?

Careful, this was legal:

Content warning.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/0…

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

Meanwhile, back to the issue at hand.

From the posts on this thread, it should prove extremely easy for any concerned Christophobe to procure the teaching materials used at a Christian Academy, and find passages that rise to this level of malice:

“at least one book still contained passages that extolled jihad and martyrdom, called for victory over one’s enemies and said the killing of adulterers and apostates was ‘justified.’””

If that report is not forthcoming, I accuse the christophobes on this thread of creating….

Ready Bozo?

…a Strawman argument. In fact, a weak, unsubstantiated Strawman argument.

ksdivakat (Anonymous) says…

Ok, Im not understanding the logic behind some posts on here! I get the feeling that some of you would rather give these extreme islamics the same basic rights and freedoms Americans have and if and when they decide to hit the US again with a terrorist attack, you want us to sit back and say “well at least we gave them the right to do it and that makes us somehow better than them??”
Seriously! What is up with that line of thinking?? I know I am not the only person in this town who seen the video clips of the black panthers and the extreme islamics right here in this country who are teaching their people that if your not islamic then the holy jihad is coming for you???? How they HATE Americans and would rather we be dead then to deal with us?? They dont care if this whole country converted to Islam, they want us all dead so that the US has no influence in the world!!!
Call it islamophobia if you want, but I still remember 9-11 and almost 4000 people who died, because of islamic extremism!! Because Bin laden thinks that we are to naughty by nature…..and We KNOW that there are sleeper cells in this country who are just waiting for some supreme leader to give them the go ahead!
I will be absolutely honest, I hate it that I think this way, I hate it that I fear these people, but most of all I hate that I fear I am racist against them, but I will tell you this, at least Im honest about it, and Im willing to confront it, and Im betting that ALOT of Americans feel the same way.
I am not prepared to allow someone else to come to my country and blow our people away again…..but its gonna happen. So while some of you are loving these people and advocating for their rights, I certainly hope that those people will not slit your throat when the time is right for them!

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

“What is up with that line of thinking?”

If we're nice to them, they'll stop killing.

They only do it because we're mean, see?

max1 (Anonymous) says…

“I know I am not the only person in this town who seen the video clips of the black panthers” -ksdivakat

http://www.reason.com/news/show/33217.ht…
Clarence Thomas: He flirted with the Black Panthers; he still respects Malcolm X

Reason: In retrospect was there something good about the Panthers?
Thomas: I really don't know. At the time, l9, 20 years old, we thought there was a lot. The positive was that it keep us thinking about change. The unfortunate thing was that it wrapped a lot of Marxist-Leninism and a lot violence. But I was also partial to the Black Muslims, primarily because of their belief in self-help.
Reason: It's odd that Malcolm X isn't a conservative hero, isn't it? He was very good on self-help.
Thomas: Yes, but he had some very strong things to say about whites. I' been very partial to Malcolm X, particularly his self-help teachings. I have virtually all of the recorded speeches of Malcolm X.

http://www.oyez.org/justices/clarence_th…
President Bush appointed Thomas to the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington D.C. in 1990. When Thurgood Marshall retired in 1991, Bush decided to elevateThomas to the Supreme Court.

autie (Anonymous) says…

So Mr. Screed, from my post of 10:27, where do you get that I think that Muslims in general and Saudis specifically need to reform their religion? I don't see anything about that in my post. Unless you are a mind reader? And since the reformation and creation of secular governments, have not thousands of thousands of non christians been killed and exploited by Christian peoples? Throughout all the colonial eras? Directly believing God was on their side and the heathens needed conquered? Or it was God's will? Go to it now, educate my ignorant mind.

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

Exactly autie! That is exactly what I'm talking about.

Since the west has ceased to kill non christians in the name of a supposed gods will, this is the example we need to set forth to the Muslims, who continue, as you imply, to engage in behavior that has let to thousands of thousands of non muslims being killed and exploited by Muslim peoples. Throughout all the world. Directly believing God is on their side and the heathens needed conquering. And it is God's will.

So right to lay out another parallel for us like that.

Of course I wouldn't assert any such thing, but you are braver than I.

ksdivakat (Anonymous) says…

well let me take a stab at it…..first of all, whatever happened in the Old testament of the bible was just that, the old testament, and it should be left in the past, just as Bill Clinton should be left in the past, but still everyone blames TODAYS problems in the world on Bill, just as they blame the rest of the problems on christians, which in itself is such a joke, but anyway, I dont recall in the last 10 years anyone being executed, beheaded, throat slit, war started, children trained to kill, or a radical call for death to Americans from Christians. Now if you have some inside info on it, please clue me in.
If your rant is based on something that happned thousands of years ago then you have no argument. Most wars are started because of religious reasons, just as the Muslims and Islams wil start a jihad against America…its a “holy war” this is the real reason we havent caught Bin Laden, IMHO….if we do, oh boy…the US has started the holy war, every muslim country will rise against whoever fights against the muslim world and will attempt to destroy them by whatever means necessary. Interesting that there is talk of IRAN and nukes and the US pitting a presence in Tehran lately….we will be there next!
Anyway, Im anxious to hear what christian organization in the last 10 years….heck, knock yourself out and go back 50 years even, What christian organization has killed in the name of religion in this country?? educate me!

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

PIMF gods = god's

autie (Anonymous) says…

Now see screed, through this dialectic maybe I have learned something. You make a very valid point and I actually understand it..and it is a good point. I have to admit that the christian world has pretty much stopped all that killing in christ' name since..oh, I guess since WWI..generally speaking. But the radical muslims do want me dead just because I'm me. On this point, you win a cookie.

screedposter (Anonymous) says…

In honor of autie (above) and Max's post, I like Toll House:

http://www.well.com/~vard/cookies.html

“First, always use real butter. Don't let anyone convince you that butter vs. margarin