LJWorld.com / McCain disagrees with adviser who called US 'nation of whiners'

Archive for Friday, July 11, 2008

By Liz Sidoti - Associated Press Writer

July 11, 2008

Fairfax, Va. — =Republican John McCain distanced himself from an economic adviser who dubbed the United States "a nation of whiners" in a "mental recession" as Democrat Barack Obama turned the remarks against his rival.

"I strongly disagree" with Phil Gramm's remarks, McCain told reporters in Belleville, Mich. "Phil Gramm does not speak for me. I speak for me."

The Republican presidential hopeful said a person who just lost a job "isn't suffering from a mental recession."

"America is in great difficulty. And we are experiencing enormous economic challenges as well as others," McCain said, seeking to stem the fallout of Gramm's comments.

Gramm, a former Texas senator who is a vice chairman of the Swiss bank UBS, made the remarks in an interview with The Washington Times. Gramm has a doctorate in economics.

In Virginia, Obama seized on the comments as he tried to paint McCain as out of touch: "America already has one Dr. Phil. We don't need another one when it comes to the economy."

He drew cheers and laughter with that comment referencing television psychologist "Dr. Phil" McGraw - and boos and hisses when he read Gramm's quotes to his audience. He contrasted them with rising gas and food prices, home foreclosures and job layoffs.

"It's not just a figment of your imagination," Obama said at a town-hall event focused on helping women advance economically. "Let's be clear. This economic downturn is not in your head."

"It isn't whining to ask government to step in and give families some relief," he said, drawing a standing ovation from the nearly 3,000 people in a high school gymnasium. "And I think it's time we had a president who doesn't deny our problems or blame the American people for them but takes responsibility and provides the leadership to solve them."

The economy is the top issue for voters, and, thus, has become the No. 1 issue in the presidential campaign. Each candidate is seeking to portray the other as out of touch with the country's struggles and himself as the leader able to pull the nation out of tenuous times.

Gramm's quotes in the Washington newspaper gave McCain heartburn and Obama an opportunity.

"You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," Gramm told the Times. He noted that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing and credit problems and record oil prices.

Discussion

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11 July 2008
at 7:49 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

Foreclosure Phil

“Who's to blame for the biggest financial catastrophe of our time? There are plenty of culprits, but one candidate for lead perp is former Sen. Phil Gramm.”

http://www.motherjones.com/news/featu…
11 July 2008
at 7:55 a.m.

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cato_the_elder (Anonymous) says…

As I read this, I wondered whether Gramm's first name shouldn't be changed to “Phill.”
11 July 2008
at 8:14 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Yes, we're all whiners. Especially those 8,000 American households that are thrown out of their home every day…. Shame on them for whining. They should get used to living in the family station wagon.

God bless America!
11 July 2008
at 8:15 a.m.

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just_another_bozo_on_this_bus (Anonymous) says…

If you'd just share your kool-aid with us, Kevin, we could learn to not worry and just be happy, too.
11 July 2008
at 8:15 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Oh I see the usual rightwing have shown up to give their values, honed from their toilets with great care. Can't flush it down, so why not put it here?
11 July 2008
at 8:17 a.m.

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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

Boo hoo logrithmic.

I didn't realize I was responsible for you and your well being.
11 July 2008
at 8:27 a.m.

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duplenty (Anonymous) says…

So, Obama disavows Wright, and the nutjobs say that isn't good enough, but McCain can say “I speak for me” and that wraps it up?

Ah, I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.
11 July 2008
at 8:30 a.m.

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cds (Anonymous) says…

I see the mental recession has already started to rear it's ugly head here on the blogs. More to come…
11 July 2008
at 8:35 a.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

Gas prices too high? Suck it up.
Home heating prices too high? Suck it up.
Cost of groceries and other sundries too high? Suck it up.

It's all in your head. Nothing to see here. Just move along, ya bunch of whiners.

(end sarcasm)
11 July 2008
at 8:41 a.m.

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tony88 (Anonymous) says…

“mental recession”

Yeah, high energy prices, the weakening of the dollar, unprecedented foreclosure rates, rising unemployment, and shrinking home values, are all “mental”. They have no basis in physical reality. BTW, McCain doesn't disagree with what Gramm said; he just says it with more subtlety… “psychological recession”.
11 July 2008
at 8:52 a.m.

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bd (Anonymous) says…

He is right we are all a bunch of winers!

Those people that got the stupid weird loans either knew what they were getting into or was just plain stupid or both!
We are all responsible for our actions!
The banks need to suck it up and learn not to be so greedy!
I don't want my tax $ spent on bailing out idiot people and stupid banks!
11 July 2008
at 8:54 a.m.

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blue73harley (Anonymous) says…

I am becoming very frustrated with the Republican party on the subject of outsoucing/offshoring jobs. They clearly do not see that this is a problem and continue to speak of a glorious global economy. Well, it ain't working folks! The playing field is not level and we are going to continue to lose jobs unless things change. The CEOs ain't going to change it. Their pockets are being lined quite nicely, thank you.

I urge you to dismiss it when you hear that you just need to improve your education and skills to get the jobs that will be left in the US. This is complete and total BS that major corporations WANT you to believe. It is not just simple manufacturing that is being offshored. Thousands of engineering jobs are moving as well.

Obama's campaign commercials focusing on incentives to keep jobs here are appealing to me. But is it just rhetoric? I don't know.
11 July 2008
at 8:55 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Let's not forget that Gramm's wife was on the board of Enron.

In 2000, Gramm inserted a loophole in the appropriations bill that is now referred to as the “Enron loophole.” It was called the “Commodities Futures Modernization Act.” This allowed Enron to sell energy futures on a deregulated basis, leading to the California energy crisis and ultimately the collapse of Enron.

Gramm ultimately received nearly a million dollars from Enron-related contributions.

I'm happy John McSame is relying on such an acknowledged leader in cronyism for economic advice. The Fast Talk Express is alive and well.
11 July 2008
at 8:55 a.m.

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tvc (Anonymous) says…

We are a bunch of whiners! Driving has only been cut by 1-2% last time I checked, so stop whining and quit driving so much.
11 July 2008
at 8:57 a.m.

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bd (Anonymous) says…

Would it be too politically incorrect for the two candidates to encourage “Buy American” ?????
11 July 2008
at 9:09 a.m.

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barrypenders (Anonymous) says…

The Battle Cry of a Liberal.

Please somebody take care of me! I have several kids that I cannot afford! Their X-boxes are not up to date. I am low on weed and need drugs legalized. I need free abortions because I can't figure out why I keep getting morning sickness once a year.
I need free transportation! I need shelter! Get rid of oil! Run your stinking SUV's on Hope! Stop smoking near me! Where's my weed? Bush sucks! Chaney, Haliburton, Rummy, suck-suck and suck. The ice is melting! Where have all the polar bears gone mommy? What about the penguins? You forgot about the penguins! Waaaaaaah…
11 July 2008
at 9:12 a.m.

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snap_pop_no_crackle (Anonymous) says…

Relax, have a popsicle.
It's a cool and fruity treat on a hot summer day.
11 July 2008
at 9:13 a.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

Just when I thought there couldn't be a bigger tool than rightwinger, along comes barrypenders, d-bag extraordinaire!! God forbid we try to solve any of our nation's problems, eh d-bag? Isn't it so much easier for you to sit in your mother's basement on your computer lumping everyone of a differing opinion together and making hasty generalizations about their lives, histories and habits?
11 July 2008
at 9:22 a.m.

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oldvet (Anonymous) says…

Obama “contrasted them with rising gas and food prices, home foreclosures and job layoffs”

rising gas… yeah, how dare those darn Chinese and Indians want to drive cars and purchase more gas and oil that we should get… and we in the USA continue to drive more and more, requiring more and more gas… The WSJ today noticed that “the tanker-sized Lexus LX, which gets 14 miles per gallon, has seen it's sales more than double in the first five months of this year. Ditto the Toyota Sequoia and the Dodge Viper.”

food prices… yeah, how dare we ship food crops to those other countries, even if they are willing to pay the prices. And we push companies to grind up food grains to make ethanol, taking more food off the market.

home foreclosures… to people who purchased homes they could not afford with contracts that they (probably) didn't read or have a lawyer read for them. It must be someone else's fault… As Flip Wilson said, “The devil made me do it!”

job layoffs… a sad fact of life that has been around all of my working life and probably before that too. Some jobs are disappearing while others are growing… I still see the LJW job pages packed with jobs.

Yes, a nation of whiners who want the government to take from the producers and give to the unproductive…
11 July 2008
at 9:26 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

The Battle Cry of a Rightwinger:

Screw you and burn the world! The only one I care about is me. Now shaddup, I've gotta get to church. Woman, bring me my shoes….
11 July 2008
at 9:32 a.m.

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duplenty (Anonymous) says…

“I don't want my tax $ spent on bailing out idiot people and stupid banks!”

Alrighty…howsabout babysitting an intractable civil war for the next 100 years? You seem to be alright with that…

'Ditto the Toyota Sequoia ”

Yeah, people love them so much that Toyota is suspending their production (along with the Tundra) in favor of fulfilling Prius demands…

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/14/to…

http://www.nextautos.com/toyota-begin…

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/5933

http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/03/t…

and my favorite

“Toyota slows Tundra and Sequoia production, surprises no one”

http://wot.motortrend.com/6257354/aut…
11 July 2008
at 9:51 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

The Battle Cry of a Leftwinger:

People are too stupid to make decisions for themselves, so the government should take over everything. The government should provide me with free homes, food, clothing, health care, and transportation because I am entitled, otherwise they are heartless and evil; and I should never be required to do anything since that would be uncompassionate. Government is way better than companies who are evil and only want dirty profit. If can't get people to agree with my social utopia so I will get the government to force it on everyone. If you disagree with me I will call you a bigot. Now back to the real news from the Daily Show.
11 July 2008
at 10:14 a.m.

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duplenty (Anonymous) says…

Hey! Satirical's back.

Anyone who makes blanket statements about a group of people, from the left or right, is an idiot.

Neither conservatives nor liberals are monolithic. And almost every political bent has its attractive aspects, and its less attractive ones. We have seen with the currect administration a radical departure from reality under the supposed label of “compassionate conservatism”, which is neither.

Thanks, satirical, for demonstrating how shallow your worldview is. It makes disregarding your posts all the easier (along with the fact that they are most often incorrect, i.e. “Iraq's gov't wants us there”).
11 July 2008
at 10:19 a.m.

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tangential_reasoners_anonymous (Anonymous) says…

The apparent confusion resulted from an attempt to correct an initial, inappropriate substitution of “winers” for “winos”.
11 July 2008
at 10:43 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Battle cry of a rightwinger:

If Fatboy Rush said so, then it is so! Can someone empty the mousetraps? I've told them kids a hunnerd times! Now where wuz I? Oh yeah, and another thang - my toilets back up something fierce. My great aunt's steppappy says its those greasy cheesedogs I eat all the time, but a man's gotta get his protein. What? You complaining about the mustard stains on my t-shirts again? Woman! Now where wuz I agin? Oh yeah, seems there ain't been a good candidate for prezident since George Wallace. Sure my Ford 150 will be repossessed next week and the bill collectors keep a callin, but guess what? They cut my hours down at the janitor service so my skilled labor just ain't what it used to be. Well, give'em hell McSame… after all you're a vet and I just luvs a man in uniform. Yippee!
11 July 2008
at 10:55 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

logrithmic…
That was pretty funny, but you forgot about the rich Republicans.
11 July 2008
at 11:01 a.m.

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fu7il3 (Anonymous) says…

“People are too stupid to make decisions for themselves, so the government should take over everything.”

Unfortunately, some people are too stupid to make decisions for themselves. Which wouldn't be a problem if our society was willing to leave them to the wolves when they fail. Instead we all pay for them, some of whom collect disability for things that don't stop them from working, or don't work simply because they don't want to and can make more on government assistance.

Logrithmic, yours just came off as resentful and stupid. At least Satirical's was based on politics. Not one mention of a hybrid in the whole thing, yet you pulled out the F150 and illiteracy.
11 July 2008
at 11:16 a.m.

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georgeofwesternkansas (Anonymous) says…

We are a bunch of whiners, pathetic at that. No need to get all but hurt over the truth.
11 July 2008
at 11:26 a.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

Battle cry of a rich rightwinger:

Jeeves, make a left at the next street. I have to be on time for Buffett's meeting.

So Smith, what's my day look like? After Buffett's meeting, I have to be where? Oh lunch at the Yale Club. Great. Love the caviar. Who am I meeting? Trump? Check. Then 18 holes at Knollwood. Then to the heliopad for my flight back to the Hamptons. Great. Make sure Jeeves knows I'll be arriving around 7. Should be able to meet Mallory for dinner. What, the broker's on the line? Let me speak to him.

“Sell 20,000 share of Exxon Mobil at $90 a share, get me in on that firesale at GM, and tell Seimens' Loscher I approve of the 17,000 layoffs and want to know why it wasn't done sooner? Also tell him not to worry about the investigation into the $2 billion in bribes Seimens made to win those foreign contracts. I've got it covered on this side of the Atlantic. Mukasey tells me Bush has said to him not to go near it. Great news eh? Corruption really is so yesterday… You gotta a flight to catch? OK. Let Smith know if you need anything.”

What's that Jeeves? We're here at the Ritz?

Smith, make sure you cut that $50,000 check to McSame. He's simply the rage at the club - that white skin and crazy eyeballs and stuff…. Loved what Gramm said about the whiners. That's all they are. Riff raff. Later.
11 July 2008
at 11:28 a.m.

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acg (Anonymous) says…

Don't ya'll realize if this attitude towards one another keeps up nothing will ever get changed or fixed? It's reminiscient to me of school kids standing on opposite sides of the schoolyard yelling stupid insults at each other. “You're a big doodie head” “No, you're a bigger doodie head”. Blah blah blah. There are some serious problems plaguing our world, folks, and this attitude is not gonna fix 'em. I've been guilty of it myself, but I've had to reign myself in. Not only because I'm pregnant and the sheer act of thinking about politics makes my blood boil and my stomach hurt, but also because I see this vicious cycle perpetuating itself and nothing ever changes. Before Dubya was elected (appointed) president last time, we shouted insults at each other and picked on each other's faults and argued about God, guns and gays and where did it get us? 4 years later, things are worse, people are still pissed off and yet nothing has changed. There has to be a better way, man, there just has to be.
11 July 2008
at 11:47 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

Logarithmic:
Funny stuff, you truly are a comedian. Now do an LJWorld blogger who is unable to make a coherent well reasoned argument, and can't make a non-fallacious counter-argument. Oh wait:.
11 July 2008
at 11:54 a.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

Mmmm…. chocolate brains
11 July 2008
at 11:55 a.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

I prefer Romney's comments about a down economy, which is, with lower priced stocks it is a great time to invest! Now there is a guy in touch with the American people.

Satirical, I'm a liberal leftist, and I can assure you I have no history or intention of asking the government to pay for my home, clothing, food, etc. as you suggest. That means you are wrong, very, very wrong.

And what about the government's bailout of Bear Stearns? Isn't it amazing that the right isn't up in arms over this form of welfare for the wealthy? Or the subsidies given to oil companies while they realize record profits — for any industry, ever!

The point is, and McCain got it correct, the difficult economic times we are facing are very real. To pretend that we aren't is a sham. It might not seem bad to you now, but what happens when you lose your job? Real people are losing real jobs. Unfortunately, McCain gets it wrong for his continued support of the war in Iraq, when has helped lead us down this path.

And as far as buying American goes, quit shopping at Wal-Mart.

Obama for President!
11 July 2008
at 11:57 a.m.

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Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

I think what he should have said is “We are a great nation, but have this faction–generation if you will–of whiners”.

The Millenial Generation. The ones who go to work in flip-flops with a latte and expect to be at the head of the table within a month or so or throw a tantrum and quit. Largely the same ones immersing themselves in the far-left blogs all day long.

That's who we are–—not the entire nation. Just a small portion that have a loud mouth. It's the same anywhere you turn your head anymore….small group or minority–-big, big flap–endlessly.

It's tiresome, boring and tedious beyond belief.

Get a life.
11 July 2008
at noon

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anxiousatheist (Clint Gentry) says…

Whiners? The last argument of a fallen political ideology. With no coherent explanation of the failures of their leadership, it turns out everyone else is a “whiner”. Wow, seems easy for me to understand, as I'm a proud non-elitist. I've taken it up the @$$ for years, to dumb to realize how corporate america is screwing me. But at least I'm not a whiner, real americans don't whine, real americans don't think, real americans worship a president as a sort of King! Can't wait to see “restorereason”, “satirical”, (and one of our dumbest americans) “barrypenders”, bring up Clinton! But of course, that isn't whining…
11 July 2008
at 12:06 p.m.

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Defender (Anonymous) says…

“It's tiresome, boring and tedious beyond belief.”

Yes Tom, you are. Idiot.
11 July 2008
at 12:08 p.m.

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logrithmic (Anonymous) says…

That's Mr. Nancy Idiot to you!
11 July 2008
at 12:17 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

Beatrice:
“That means you are wrong, very, very wrong.”

My comment re: “The battlecry of Leftwingers” was meant in jest and in response to logrithmic's comment about rightwingers, which was so clearly ridiculous. Although, some liberals do hold the position that government is the cause and the solution to all of their problems.

Since I don't have sufficient knowledge of the Bear Sterns bailout I will decline to comment. However, bailouts of large companies is not “welfare for the wealthy”. The government sometimes bails out companies (sometimes it is just a favorable loan) because the large ripple effect it would have on many sectors of the economy (see airline bailouts), which would cost thousands of jobs and would cost more than the price of a bailout. I can understand that logic, but as a free-market capitalist I think the government should let more businesses fail.

I am pretty sure most of the subsidies given to oil companies are reimbursements for research and development for alternative energy (which I thought you were for). If you have proof a different type of subsidy I would like to know about it.

Obama's solution to a poor economy is to raise taxes. Genius! This would only cause greater job losses and kick a weakened economy while it is down.

McCain/Romney for President!
11 July 2008
at 12:21 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

Anxiousatheist..
“real americans worship a president as a sort of King!”

Funny you mention this. I think Bush has done a terrible job for the most part (I loved his Supreme Court nominations), but most liberals think Obama is some sort of a Prince; they totally ignore his lack of experience, his political expedient flip-flopping on many issues including giving special interests more influence by rejecting public financing, and his socialist agenda.
11 July 2008
at 12:32 p.m.

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anxiousatheist (Clint Gentry) says…

Can I ask you “satirical”, is calling someone a “whiner” a viable argumentative practice? Really, has the GOP sunk so low as to resort to name calling? This guy isn't even in the whitehouse, we expect BuchCo. to act like this, but this is one of McCain's advisers! Is the GOP so out of touch that they don't understand the economic disaster they've put us in? Obama will be the next president no matter how many racists are in the country…
11 July 2008
at 12:38 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

I am not here to defend Gramm's remarks. I think what he said was wrong. But his comments are less outrageous than General Clark's (who is an Obama surrogate) comments about McCain.

Obama will raise taxes and make this economy even worse. So if the economy is your concern then you should not vote for Obama.
11 July 2008
at 1:35 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

RestoreReason…
“AA probably lacks the brainpower to understand the why his comments are hilarious”

You mean the fact that anxiousatheist is a hypocrite for condemning the GOP for name calling but then implying I, or those not supporting Obama are racist? I try to ignore personal attacks, but you have a good point.
11 July 2008
at 1:47 p.m.

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anxiousatheist (Clint Gentry) says…

Well well,…You guys, (“noreason” “satanical”), are comparing a private citizen, (me), to the political party you stand behind? Again, you attack the messenger not the argument, typical M.O. for you guys. Don't strain yourself reaching for straw that isn't there fellas'. Keep up the inconsistencies though, it's what you are good at…
11 July 2008
at 1:58 p.m.

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sekan (Anonymous) says…

Satirical; What experience did Bush have?
11 July 2008
at 2:02 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

AA…

What a surprise that a lib twists my words. I didn't compare you to the GOP, I explicitly pointed out that you condemn one group for personal attacks, yet you make them yourself. This is called hypocrisy, just like someone claiming they hate when a group is racist but is himself a racist. It is the same thing, hypocrisy, which undermines your argument.

Also, I did counter your argument, if you were paying attention. Your implication that Gramm's remarks were on behalf of the entire GOP are just silly. If every comment any Obama supporter ever made were imputed to the Dems (such as Rev. Wright, or Jesse Jackson, or General Clark, etc.) then the Dems are in more trouble than the GOP. But since your argument is wrong it doesn't matter. Odd that you conveniently ignored my counter-argument to twist my words.
11 July 2008
at 2:11 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

Sekan:
“What experience did Bush have?”

Nice job in changing the focus off of Obama's lack of experience to focus on Bush. Liberals have never thought of doing that before.

I don't have all of Bush's resume, but here is what I remember at the time (I didn't vote for him in 2000) He was a two term governor (see executive experience) of one of the second largest state in the U.S. which has an economy larger than most countries in the world. He was the son of a president (if Hillary can impute Bill's 8 years in office then Bush jr. can impute his father's). He was in the Air National Guard, and the CEO in a few oil companies.

Obama's experience: Community organizer, a state legislator for 7 years, and has been in the U.S. senate for less than a term.
11 July 2008
at 2:14 p.m.

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Mr_Nancy_Boy_To_You (Tom Shewmon) says…

“That's Mr. Nancy Idiot to you!” -Log

That's right!!
11 July 2008
at 3:08 p.m.

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a_flock_of_jayhawks (Anonymous) says…

There is a clear MO being undertaken by many conservatives which Mr. Gramm just proudly put on display. If anyone criticizes their policies or views, they are labeled whiners and just told to shut up or are ridiculed. This approach does nothing to resolve the problem or even to inform those that may disagree.

When a supermajority of people disagree with you and you respond by ridiculing them, what do you suppose comes next? That's right. It's called the big goodbye. So, goodbye, Mr. Gramm (like he really cares). At least the “whiners” are intelligent enough to at least listen to and consider a POV that differs from their own. Certainly can't say that about the RestoreReasons of the world, who typically move straight to the condescension and name calling.
11 July 2008
at 3:12 p.m.

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bennyoates (Anonymous) says…

Maybe Dr. Phil was thinking about those who use this message board to whine about the “T” and the Stalinist tyrants who control Lawrence with an iron fist, blood of patriots dripping from their Commie fangs.

Whatever, the controversy gives us a chance to recall that in 1996, McCain endorsed Gramm, with his multiple military deferments, over war hero Bob Dole, in the Presidential primaries.
11 July 2008
at 3:26 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Beatrice says:

“I prefer Romney's comments about a down economy, which is, with lower priced stocks it is a great time to invest!”

Umm, that's rational, sound advice, dear.

“Satirical, I'm a liberal leftist…..”

Noooooo kiddin'?! Thanks for clearing that up.

“And what about the government's bailout of Bear Stearns?”

There was no 'bailout'. They were extended a line of credit that they'll have to pay back, with interest.

“Real people are losing real jobs.”

Happens every day. You suck it up, pick yourself up, and get back on the horse. Sorry, Beatrice, that I picked your post to pick on. In actuality, there are much more ridiculous, childish, and ignorant posts than yours by the likes of anxiousatheist, defender, and logrithmic, whom I suspect is attempting to wrest the title of Village Idiot away from Bozo.

But the outright winner for ignorant post of the day goes to……….

ACG: “Just when I thought there couldn't be a bigger tool than rightwinger, along comes barrypenders, d-bag extraordinaire!!”

ACG ( a short while later):

“Don't ya'll realize if this attitude towards one another keeps up nothing will ever get changed or fixed? It's reminiscient to me of school kids standing on opposite sides of the schoolyard yelling stupid insults at each other”

Lovely.
11 July 2008
at 3:27 p.m.

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anxiousatheist (Clint Gentry) says…

“He was in the Air National Guard, and the CEO in a few oil companies.” - satirical

Wow, you feeling generous today? First, no national guard, that's obvious, (along with cheney, no real army experience), second, he ran two oil companies into the ground! Did Bush “have” more experience? Maybe. After the last 8 years, I'm not sure that's the type of “experience” we need. Also, Texas governorship is obviously not much of a trainer when dealing with people who aren't dumb bumpkins.
11 July 2008
at 3:43 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

AA…

Why does everything have to be centered around Bush for so many of you libs? I don't care about Bush's record of lack thereof, even though it is clearly superior to that of Obama's, Bush is not running again. I only care that too many in this nation are whole-heartedly embracing Obama when so little is known about him and he has almost no significant experience. All most people know about him is that he is a Dem and he is an African American.

So by all means continue to make fun of Bush, while you are stuck in the past I am more concerned about the future, and preventing Obama from raising taxes and destroying this country's already fragile economy.
11 July 2008
at 3:49 p.m.

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chet_larock (Anonymous) says…

“and destroying this country's already fragile economy”

Already done.
11 July 2008
at 3:53 p.m.

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sekan (Anonymous) says…

Satirical; I asked you a simple question yet you have to start with the insults. You don't know me , whether I am a Liberal {whatever that is } or anything else. I am 86 yrs. old. I had a graddaughter that played softball and Volleyball for a JUCO in Liberal, Ks. Does that make her a Liberal. I find it typical of this Forum that the way to answer a question is with insults. That i why I seldom participate Thank You for the information. I spent some time in Texas while Bush was Governor. I know what he did.
I would have answered sooner but had to mow my lawn
11 July 2008
at 4:05 p.m.

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Satirical (Anonymous) says…

Sekan:
You asked me a “simple question” that you apparently already knew the answer to, “I know what he did” sekan. It is obvious what your real intent was. The only reason to question me about Bush's experience was obviously because I quested Obama's experience. So rather than refuting my argument that Obama lacks the necessary experience to be Commander-in-Chief, Leader of the Free World, and President of the United States of America, you make a fallacious argument about Bush.

I did not call you any names, so do not get so defensive. I stated that your tactic, of dodging a legitimate and substantive question to discuss Bush, is a tactics liberals have used. I did not call you a liberal. Plus I answered your “simple question.”
11 July 2008
at 4:33 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

jayw, no need to apologize for picking on one of my posts. I must say, however, if you really believe that economically disadvantaged folks who have lost their jobs through downsizing or outsourcing should follow Romney's advice and purchase stocks at that time, terrific. I hope the McCain/Romney ticket even use it as their slogan. “Invest your way out of poverty - McCain/Romney.” Brilliant. I'm sure it will connect with Americans in golf clubs and board rooms across the land. It might miss on the masses, but that is okay, I guess.

Certainly people lose jobs every day. I never said they don't. The problem is, right now that is happening with greater frequency than it did just a few years ago. Further, with escalating prices and a devalued dollar, more and more are feeling the pinch of economic hard times. It won't be pretty at the polls if more and more Republicans show their true colors by belittling those hurting from these hard economic times.

Regarding Bear Stearns, it was indeed a bail-out. Our government gave a loan of $29 billion — at an interest rate of 2.5% — so JPMorgan could purchase Bear Stearns, thus bailing out the investment company. Should the plan fail, JPMorgan is responsible for just the first $1billion. Think a small company can borrow money at that rate from our government when facing tough times? It is a bail-out of Wall Street that isn't offered to those on Main Street.

Finally, if you quote something like my saying I'm a liberal, why not quote the rest, which is my stating that the way someone else defines “liberal” doesn't hold up when tested. If you (or another) say all liberals feel the need to suckle from the government teat, I'm going to let you (or another) know that you are not telling the truth. And the government teat that corporations suckle from is much, much larger.
11 July 2008
at 4:42 p.m.

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ndmoderate (Anonymous) says…

I wish I could get a loan at 2.5%!
11 July 2008
at 5 p.m.

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beatrice (Anonymous) says…

Satirical, you regularly claim “Obama lacks the necessary experience to be Commander-in-Chief, Leader of the Free World, and President of the United States of America,” so would you please state exactly what requirements or list of experiences are needed.

The problem is, you can't because there is no set list of experiences required for the job. It is an empty argument.

It is more of a whole package argument for or against the candidate. Do more years in Congress outweigh real-world experience? Does experience outweigh intelligence? Given his advanced years, certainly McCain will have more experience than Obama, but have his experiences made him sufficiently intelligent enough to make the right decisions? (Looking at his support of Bush's policies, I don't believe so.)

You may not like Obama's experiences but, it is impossible to say with conviction that Obama lacks the “necessary experience” to be President.

It is also possible to have experience that shows you unfit for being President. I know I disapprove of McCain's experience as one of the Keating Five, his experience of standing hand in hand with President Bush for the past seven years, or even his experience of cheating on his wife and eventually leaving her for the much younger heiress he was cheating with. Honestly, after the fuss made over Clinton's affair, I'm surprised the social conservatives within the Republican Party are so accepting of McCain's cheating ways. These are all experiences, but they don't add up to Presidential material, however.

Obama for President!
11 July 2008
at 5:10 p.m.

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deskboy04 (Anonymous) says…

It seems like the free market should have a chance to work. I'm not sure what some of you would do to “fix” the problems that you see. Should the government bail out homeowners who have loans they can't afford?
11 July 2008
at 7:35 p.m.

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jaywalker (Anonymous) says…

Beatrice:

“I must say, however, if you really believe that economically disadvantaged folks who have lost their jobs through downsizing or outsourcing should follow Romney's advice and purchase stocks at that time, terrific.”

Where did I say anything about “economically disadvantaged folks.blah blah blah”? That entire passage is BS. You quoted Romney as saying 'with lower priced stocks it's a good time to invest'. I said that's sound advice. I guarantee Romney was not suggesting that to people who had lost their jobs or to the disadvantaged. Please don't 'flower' up what you supposedly meant just to be snide with me.

“Real people losing real jobs.” As opposed to fake people losing fake jobs? Sorry for the sarcasm, but there's absolutely no need to lecture me on what's going on right now. I'm a small biz owner who's been crushed by the home construction collapse and now with the price of gas am forced to switch careers (again) at 42 (mobile work force). But it's not 'more and more Republicans' that made the comment about whiners. It was one guy who, unfortunately for McCain, is getting crucified for a fairly innocuous comment that smacks of reality. People have been out-sourced, down-sized, cut back for years. During WW II people had their companies commandeered by the government for the war effort. People can suck it up and move on, or they whine and kvetch. I'd found a fantastic niche in construction, had 5 employees that were paid handsomely, and made much more than I ever thought I would when I began. I got to take off whenever I wanted, which is all I ever wanted, because there's nothing in this world that can't be replaced except time. And no matter where I end up my pay reduction is going to be in multiples of the average citizen's. But such is life. Do you think the government wants you to struggle, do you really think Gramm or McCain do? Of course not. It's, as they say, bad for business.

As far as Bear Stearns, sorry, not a bail out no matter how you want to spin it. Satirical hit the nail on the head:

“bailouts of large companies is not “welfare for the wealthy”. The government sometimes bails out companies (sometimes it is just a favorable loan) because the large ripple effect it would have on many sectors of the economy (see airline bailouts), which would cost thousands of jobs and would cost more than the price of a bailout.”

Of course they got a good interest rate, it's on billions of dollars! Generally speaking, the larger the loan, the smaller the rate. Do the math on that 2.5%, it ain't peanuts. And if Bear Stearns was left to collapse, there goes thousands more of those jobs you're fighting for, as well as hundreds of thousands of investor's capital. Or is that ok with you since they're (probably) not 'economically disadvantaged'?

As far as you stating you're a liberal leftist, all I said was that was obvious.

Have a nice weekend.
11 July 2008
at 11:13 p.m.

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igby (Anonymous) says…

“Nafta seems too be hitting home Batman, better get the bat mobile ready.”

“yes Robin, and better fuel it up now, because the terrorist may strike at anytime.” “Your so right Batman” what about the unspoken things we talked about Batman? O.K, Robin, go head and call Superman and tell him were coming.